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Who wins?

DM goes all out.

an endless fight.

Who wins?

Dr. Manhattan is hard to gauge because he was the only superpowered person in his world.

I think the Void wins.

Dr Manhattan can make clones and teleport them into battle forever.

Void can destroy clones and won't stay down for Robert has no reason to want to commit suicide.

The fight lasts forever.

The only way Void can win is if he expands and consumes the entire galaxy. Just like he did at the end of What If #200. Just so he can be sure he destroys every last Doc clone. Which is a long shot.

Void wins.

Void is the better fighter and has more exp dealing with super powered opponents. the Dr can drag the fight out but thats about it... beware the power of a trillion exploding suns.. or w/e its supposed to be.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Void is the better fighter and has more exp dealing with super powered opponents. the Dr can drag the fight out but thats about it... beware the power of a trillion exploding suns.. or w/e its supposed to be. problem is is that Manhattan has never shown any definitive vulnerability to anything other than that his vision can be blocked... So what would it take to stop him IDK bad character to use in a fight against anything less than clear cut victories one way or the other so either things like Abstract>>>> Manhattan>>>>>> meta/streetlevel/brick heralds is all he can answer for for sure. Anything where there is any question and he just doesn't have the feats low end or high end to really contend with to say how he does one way or the other.

Dr. M has no way to win really.

When has Void or Sentry even really showcased their totted Matter Manipulation abilities aside from pulling themselves back together?

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
When has Void or Sentry even really showcased their totted Matter Manipulation abilities aside from pulling themselves back together?

betting MM...killing loki with norn stones...even his watchtower was completely created by him

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
When has Void or Sentry even really showcased their totted Matter Manipulation abilities aside from pulling themselves back together?
Dr. = blowing ppl up
void = putting himself back together
.... endless fight?

Originally posted by bbrem123
betting MM...killing loki with norn stones...even his watchtower was completely created by him

The fight with Owen was dubious at best and his killing Loki wasn't Matter Manipulation though I'll need to go crack open Siege again to double check. And can anyone link me to when he built his Watchtower? Because anyone with superspeed and strength can pull that off, no Matter Manip needed.

@Seven: Manhattan can also put himself back together. As he told Veidt, it was the first trick he learned.

What was dubious about him beating MM?

Originally posted by Mindset
What was dubious about him beating MM?

That the whole thing felt more like an ass-pull that was used to pull Norman's fat out of the fryer for that one trade and then was never really referenced again?

I'm pretty neutral on this fight and the Sentry as a whole, but I get a little exacerbated from the fact that the Sentry keeps dipping between barely being Herald level (like he's totted to be) and then suddenly being just above it with unquantifiable or off-panel or throw away feats.

So there's nothing dubious about it, you just don't like it.

Originally posted by Mindset
So there's nothing dubious about it, you just don't like it.

Originally posted by Mindset
So there's nothing dubious about it, you just don't like it.

Hardly quantified on top of it being a throwaway feat makes it quite dubious. In fact, there are plenty of feats for plenty of characters that are argued to death on this forum because they were either a one time thing that may or may not have happened in the Silver Age and end up never being mentioned or really seen the likes of since that occurred. There are also plenty of dubious feats because they were far out of the general scope of the character or under the scope of the character.

The Sentry is in of himself a very dubious character. He is claimed to be this incredibly powerful entity when his actual on-panel feats are less so in most cases. He is casually claimed as beating Galactus and being a superhuman that makes all others quiver in their boots when he fails at holding a Helicarrier, can't even defeat WWH, etc.

The Void is slightly more impressive than his heroic persona but even his feats seem to bounce back and forth. His weaker form is a credible threat to the Avengers, Fantastic Four, The Hulk and other heroes combined but his supposedly more powerful Siege-persona only manages to kill Ares and Loki while being held at bay by Thor and finally put down by him.

One of the most impressive things ever done by any incarnation of the character is his ability to reform himself and that's really about it.


Also, please refrain from giving "kudos" to each other over perceived "burns". It's very juvenile and rude and is generally seen as a form of either flaming or trolling and has no real place in a debate. It cheapens the whole thing and all of those who take part in it.

Originally posted by Mindset
So there's nothing dubious about it, you just don't like it. Originally posted by bbrem123

Originally posted by Mindset


Since it came up in a few other threads concerning the Void/Sentry/etc.; he's not seen on panel as really using his Matter Manipulation aside from reforming himself. He doesn't match or shift energy signatures, he doesn't change the form of any matter, he doesn't create physical matter from energy or vice versa (unless someone can clear up him "creating his watchtower", which I'm still waiting upon), etc.

Thus, the feat is dubious. Not because I "dislike it", which as I have mentioned I'm neutral on the matter, but because it's poorly defined and doesn't really come back up after the fact.

I'll also re-iterate that your behavior is honestly very childish and I would personally appreciate it if you would have the common courtesy to stick to the actual thread and not bog it down with pseudo-ego stroking and the like.

i hate manhattan threads

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
Since it came up in a few other threads concerning the Void/Sentry/etc.; he's not seen on panel as really using his Matter Manipulation aside from reforming himself. He doesn't match or shift energy signatures, he doesn't change the form of any matter, he doesn't create physical matter from energy or vice versa (unless someone can clear up him "creating his watchtower", which I'm still waiting upon), etc.

Thus, the feat is dubious. Not because I "dislike it", which as I have mentioned I'm neutral on the matter, but because it's poorly defined and doesn't really come back up after the fact.

I'll also re-iterate that your behavior is honestly very childish and I would personally appreciate it if you would have the common courtesy to stick to the actual thread and not bog it down with pseudo-ego stroking and the like. Originally posted by Mindset
So there's nothing dubious about it, you just don't like it. Originally posted by bbrem123

But seriously, maybe you mean another word than dubious.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
The fight with Owen was dubious at best and his killing Loki wasn't Matter Manipulation though I'll need to go crack open Siege again to double check. And can anyone link me to when he built his Watchtower? Because anyone with superspeed and strength can pull that off, no Matter Manip needed.

@Seven: Manhattan can also put himself back together. As he told Veidt, it was the first trick he learned.
It's only dubious because you have the preconceived notion that he shouldn't be capable of those kinds of feats...

Originally posted by King Kandy
It's only dubious because you have the preconceived notion that he shouldn't be capable of those kinds of feats...

I've not said anything of the sort. I have asked for any evidence of him using his claimed Matter Manipulation abilities on panel and aside from his penchant to reform himself and the two mentioned examples (Loki's death and his watchtower; one which I'm looking up now and the other I'm waiting on clarification of), nothing has been presented.

If The Sentry, The Void or SiegeVoidtry has Matter Manipulation feats, please do present them and prove my standpoint wrong. Otherwise, it's a dubious feat.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I've not said anything of the sort. I have asked for any evidence of him using his claimed Matter Manipulation He used it against MM.

You're welcome.

I have a problem with Manhattan Vs. threads: He has never come in contact with other superbeings.

Originally posted by Daemon Seed
I have a problem with Manhattan Vs. threads: He has never come in contact with other superbeings.

Exactly. He hasn't done anything beyond what Silver Surfer has done.

Originally posted by Mindset
He used it against MM.

You're welcome.

Except for the fact we're contesting the validity of that event in this specific conversation. And by themselves, assertions aren't evidence and don't prove one's side in a debate. I can claim that The Hulk wins any fight against anyone because he has a Golden Monkey god on his shoulder who makes him invincible or that Spider-man is stronger than Superman, but without actual, hard evidence (issue numbers, page scans, etc.), they're just assertions.

I just re-read Dark Avengers 11 and 12, where this actually happens. We see The Sentry pull himself back together, twice and we see him holding Owen in some kind of painful stasis before blowing him up. Aside from pulling himself back together none of that is apparently Matter Manipulation instead of, say, Bob's Energy Projection or Telepathic abilities.

Edit: I also just re-read Siege 4 and Voidtry rips Loki in half with his tendrils. The art could easily lead to the misconception that this wasn't the fact.

You obviously don't understand how debating works.

Why is this thread getting reported? facepalm

Originally posted by Mindset
You obviously don't understand how debating works.

And this is when I wish you a good day sir. I've said my piece and been both courteous and respectful about it.

We both have, I'd say our debate etiquette should be commended.

Originally posted by Badabing
Why is this thread getting reported? facepalm

Someone afraid of a debate, maybe?

Originally posted by Mindset
So there's nothing dubious about it, you just don't like it.

Doctor Manhattan was intended to be a God like entity but he unfortunately hasn't done enough to justify taking on the Void.

Originally posted by Mindset
We both have, I'd say our debate etiquette should be commended.

and u were right