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Yep - he's returning as Qui-Gon Jinn in 'force ghost' mode for a few episode arc; no doubt he will be talking with Yoda, who reveals these conversations at the end of Revenge Of The Sith.

I guess he & Lucas get along better than has been portrayed in the press.

Well honestly, if they'd give me the chance to portray a Jedi in The Clone Wars, I wouldn't say no either

No he talks to Obi-Wan in the next episode Overlords.

The clip can be found here.

This episode is making me very nervous as the preview mentioned "origin of the Force".

Oopps...

Originally posted by ares834
No he talks to Obi-Wan in the next episode Overlords.

The clip can be found here.

This episode is making me very nervous as the preview mentioned "origin of the Force".

...but in ROTS, Obi-Wan was surprised that Yoda had been talking with Qui-Gon. This makes no sense to have a Force ghost speak to Obi-Wan before Episode 3.

Well that really deosn't look like a Force Ghost. And this takes place on Mortis which apperntly is really strong in the force. Perhaps Kenobi thought Qui-gon could only come back here.

But I don't care because it is LIAM F*CKING NEESON!

Well they might explain it as some kind of hallucination or an appearance linked to the planet they are on...

(I know, it's vague and raises a lot of question - yours being the biggest of them all - but frankly I don't really care. It's good to see Qui-Gon again.)

Yay!

I mean, obviously continuity issues but... still yay!

Originally posted by Hybris
Well they might explain it as some kind of hallucination or an appearance linked to the planet they are on...

(I know, it's vague and raises a lot of question - yours being the biggest of them all - but frankly I don't really care. It's good to see Qui-Gon again.)

I'm glad they are bringing Qui-Gon in, I just wish it would be for Yoda and not Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by LanceWindu
I just wish it would be for Yoda and not Obi-Wan.

Same here.

It would make more sense. But then again, that may be a bit too much to ask for this series.

Maybe the kids would start wondering who Yoda actually is...

This show lost me again with the last episode. I fully expect this to be another Grade A f*ck-up.

Prolly.

Thoughts anyone?

About?

the episode? QGJ appearance?

It was strange... Really gives us insightful views into the force. Granted I think this is all a vision and what teh Father means by stay here is to forgo all atachments.

OMG.... floating rocks.... bioluminant trees.... major major Avatar rip off... Star Wars has reached a new low... it needs other films to copy from.

Plus there seems to be a departure from the balance of the Force concept... In this episode suggests a mix between light and dark, while Balance always used to be light only. The yin-yang symbol is disturbing in this context.

They keep changing stuff all the time and now it's combined with blatant plagiarism.

Balance of the Force means no Sith, not no dark side of the force.

felucia? and floating rocks would be episode V

Originally posted by ares834
Balance of the Force means no Sith, not no dark side of the force.

No way, dude. Balance of the Force is light side only. Lucas said that many times..

Originally posted by InfernoJG95
felucia? and floating rocks would be episode V

No, I was serious. Check out the episode and it spells out Avatar all over the place.

Originally posted by queeq
No way, dude. Balance of the Force is light side only. Lucas said that many times..

No he doesn't. He only ever states that the Sith are throwing the Force out of balance, and once Anakin kills Palpatine and himself then balance is restored.

Yep, this is true. The problem is the Sith, not the Dark Side itself (though you could argue that it's an even greater problem).

Blocking lightsabers with hands... huh.

Yes but the Sith are clearly the personification of the Dark Side. GL's point is that the Light Side is the side of Balance.

Here is a GL quote on it:

"The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy"

Another quote by GL stating that Anakin is "to fulfill the prophecy where he brings Balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

No not just the Sith... they cause the disruption by bringing evil/dark side of the force into the universe.

Lucas always stated that balance of the Force means that everything is harmonious, all is good. Dark Side presence is not that.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yes but the Sith are clearly the personification of the Dark Side. GL's point is that the Light Side is the side of Balance.

Here is a GL quote on it:

"The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy"

Actually in this exact same interview Lucas shows what Balance of the Force truly means.

"The meaning of Balance of the Force: Let me explain briefly. If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything . It is dangerous to lose this."

Originally posted by queeq
Another quote by GL stating that Anakin is "to fulfill the prophecy where he brings Balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

I never believed that Anakin got rid of all evil, but that he got rid of the Empire and Sith.


He says the opposite actually.

You've misunderstood GL's first point. He is explaining how they get mixed up in an evil galaxy so people cannot see the difference any more. A balanced galaxy is one where the distinctions are clear- there is good, and there is evil; good is obviously that which is to be espoused and evil must be fought and destroyed. A good (i.e. Light Side) galaxy keeps these things clear and distinct and hence all is well. An evil (i.e. Dark Side) galaxy would keep it mixed and morality would no longer be possible. (GL's like for a clear good/evil distinction comes from westerns, which is from where Star Wars was partly born as he thought people didn't have a clear moral guide like the 'white hats, dark hats' days)

Hence you are incorrect in your final statement- he does not say the opposite at all. I appreciate it is very easy to be thrown off by the "balance between all things" schtick, but how you took it is not what he meant and both his words and everything that happens in the films show that.

The Sith are the power of the dark side. GL clearly states it is the Dark Side creating imbalance. Hence the Sith needed to be destroyed to prevent that imbalance. My quote says it clearly- the dark side will destroy the balance of the galaxy. And the one queeq gave clearly shows that GL's intention is that it was the evil the Sith represented that is the issue, not merely the fact that they had the name 'Sith'. Keep looking at that interview and similar ones GL says. He is very clear- he doesn't just say Sith, he uses terms like 'evil' and 'dark forces' destroying the balance of the Galaxy. This is what the Chosen One stops.

After all, if literal balance were indeed the aim, then why destroy the Sith? They would need to represent evil as the Jedi represent good. But that's not it at all- balance can only exist if the evil is destroyed. That's at the heart of Star Wars.

Hence, GL's conclusion is also clear- the Light Side needs to be triumphant and the Dark Side destroyed. That is Balance. That is why victory is a galaxy where the Jedi exist- but the Sith, and hence the Dark Side, do not.

It's very helpful if you simply use 'balance' to mean 'good' and 'imbalance' to mean 'evil' (which is in keeping with GL's spiritual inspirations), and then you can see the idea of balancing good and evil is just gibberish; you cannot balance imbalance- that's the thing you get rid of to create balance.

I can't believe we're still having this debate though. We've had it since 1998 and mostly because people prefer a sort of yin-yang approach to the balance of the Force. Lucas ALWAYS intended it to be one thing and Ush explained it very well.

It must be the only thing LUcas has not changed his mind about... I think... until this episode perhaps.

Yin-Yang balance is a very widely spread fantasy and sci-fi trope is the issue; GL's different approach throws people. And of course he entirely failed to explain it on-screen; if, say, Qui-Gon had explained it all in TPM we'd all be fine.

But as one commentator on the tv.tropes page said about the cliche...

-

"Who's to say that a Balance Between Good And Evil is good? It's right there in the name that it's not."

-

Which I found rather good...

Excellent.

*mod fight*

Err... we're on the same side Hybris... sorry to disappoint.

You know, at this point, I am just going off what appears in the fiction. It feels like Lucas has contracted himself in the past. In my honest opinion, if the man is solid about the rules, he should have put them into the series. All this, "he said" gets a little blurry and never stands the test of time. Just my honest opinion, though...

Well, you are right of course. It's one of the gripes I have: Lucas or Lucasfilm has a tendency to constantly change his/their mind. However, the balance of the Force is fairly vague since the movie never explain it. And the prophesy is also vague: it gets mentioned numerous times, yet no one tells us what it means. So, all we had to fall back to is the creator. And in Lucas' defense: about balance of the Force he has always been consistent and hardly blurry.

Until now perhaps...

This whole episode was bizarre.

I really liked it, it was bizarre! Different territory than we're used to for Star Wars in general, I feel. The Force-wielder trio (Father, Daughter, Son) are almost mythical in nature, and the visions were eerie.

And Avatarish...

I enjoyed it due in large part to the fact that it steers the Force back into the realm of mysticism, as opposed to the scientific understanding of the midichlorians. It feels very OT, back when the Force was a much cooler thing.

Here is the thing that bugs me though, hasn't the term Force-wielder been used to refer to the Jedi and/or Sith in the past?

No idea... When do you think that was?

I like the mysticism, the idea of devotees of the force, a sensical depiction of balance, and the breakdown of the Sith/Jedi metaphors....


Its just the way its presented....an ever-changing planet, the Pandora rocks, shapshifting monsters, grabbing lightsabers????

Originally posted by Dark Exile
Here is the thing that bugs me though, hasn't the term Force-wielder been used to refer to the Jedi and/or Sith in the past?

That thought had also crossed my mind. I don't believe it was used in the OT or PT, but rather in the EU (I think Karen Traviss liked using it).

I've heard the term used, just dont remember where.

Prolly EU.

On the force Balance thing:

I always thought, without seeing those GL quotes, that that is exactly what is meant by "balance." I never thought it was a yin and yang. Even in the EU, some believe the force to be "neutral" and the evil "quick and easy" path of selfishness and "unrighteousness" was an imbalance to the "neutral" force. This is why there was a prophecy that there would be a Chosen One to bring balance back to the force: the Sith approach to the force is "unnatural" and an abuse of the force and it creates and imbalance. Balance would be the natural equilibrium sustained by and with the force well before things such as "Sith" and "Jedi" existed. The original Jedi approach to the force was to use it for good and the betterment of all: not for personal and selfish reasons of "I am better than you." This would be a balanced, natural, approach. This is what it means to bring balance to the force.


Deeper into the rabbit hole: Of course, we could argue that helping all to live peacefully or happily is actually a selfish reason, in the end, and that would be a legitimate sociological assessment for altruistic behaviors, meaning, it is still a selfish reason for using the force, and, therefore, is still not bringing balance to the force. More directly, the Jedi are not a balance to the force, either: they are an unnatural drain upon the force that rationalize their abuse of the force through seemingly altruistic motives; but, in the greater picture, they are just using the force for selfish reasons, as well. But how far is too far when talking about the rules of a fictional galaxy?





Back to the thread: I had no idea that Neeson and Lucas had some bad mojo between them?

That had something to do with Episode III and Neeson not making an appearance as planned, there. Or so it goes.

Agreeing with the 'Force being mystical' comments above. I enjoy when things have a certain magic to them... while the outright 'CONJURE THINGS FROM NOTHING' Force powers of the Witches somewhat irked me, I do like that the Clone Wars has stepped in that direction with it. It has surprised me.

I agree with that. I added a storylne with a certain depth and unexpectancy away from the usual suspects. Was about time.


Originally posted by dadudemon
On the force Balance thing:

I always thought, without seeing those GL quotes, that that is exactly what is meant by "balance." I never thought it was a yin and yang. Even in the EU, some believe the force to be "neutral" and the evil "quick and easy" path of selfishness and "unrighteousness" was an imbalance to the "neutral" force. This is why there was a prophecy that there would be a Chosen One to bring balance back to the force: the Sith approach to the force is "unnatural" and an abuse of the force and it creates and imbalance. Balance would be the natural equilibrium sustained by and with the force well before things such as "Sith" and "Jedi" existed. The original Jedi approach to the force was to use it for good and the betterment of all: not for personal and selfish reasons of "I am better than you." This would be a balanced, natural, approach. This is what it means to bring balance to the force.


Deeper into the rabbit hole: Of course, we could argue that helping all to live peacefully or happily is actually a selfish reason, in the end, and that would be a legitimate sociological assessment for altruistic behaviors, meaning, it is still a selfish reason for using the force, and, therefore, is still not bringing balance to the force. More directly, the Jedi are not a balance to the force, either: they are an unnatural drain upon the force that rationalize their abuse of the force through seemingly altruistic motives; but, in the greater picture, they are just using the force for selfish reasons, as well. But how far is too far when talking about the rules of a fictional galaxy?


Yeah well... Lucas's view is: Balance=good side only.

Originally posted by REXXXX
That had something to do with Episode III and Neeson not making an appearance as planned, there. Or so it goes.


I thought that was due to a biking accident Neeson had?

I'm google searching the crap out of this and I'm having trouble.

Poor lad. Need help?

About the selfishness thing- it's not a belief that GL (or I) share. GL wants good guys and bad guys. The Jedi are good guys.

As for Liam Neeson- my understanding was that the scene basically just didn't happen in the end. Maybe there was a particular reason; I didn't hear it. Neeson did make some disparaging comments on AOTC though.

Originally posted by queeq
Poor lad. Need help?

lol




Yeah. I really could.


I found one Wookpedia entry that talks about how wooden the acting was due to too much green-screen time without other actors to act off of...and Neeson's dislike of that. But nothing about Neeson getting booted because of personality conflicts, in Episode III. The best I got was Neeson was in a biking accident and he couldn't make the filming so he was mentioned, not shown.


Originally posted by Ushgarak
About the selfishness thing- it's not a belief that GL (or I) share. GL wants good guys and bad guys. The Jedi are good guys.

On, no, I agree whole-heartedly. I was more or less pointing out how far the philosophical approach could be taken when it came to "balance" and "selfishness." It was more of a commentary about altruism not be pure selflessness but a selfish motivation. That's more for the GDF or Philsophy section, but, due to how awesome and deep you can get with GL's fictional universe, it makes you think in those very same ways...especially when discussing the nature of the force.

Well sure. But I don't belief in that selfishness thing even in real life, so I'll side with GL on that one.

I think the selfishness theory indeed is a rather academic view. SW is simple though, just good or bad.

Originally posted by queeq
I think the selfishness theory indeed is a rather academic view. SW is simple though, just good or bad.

Yeah, that was where I was going with that. It can be debated into a pulp so we really should stick with what GL said on it...and that was covered nicely, already.

Sweet.

We know that GL said, but GL also kind of said what was in this episode too. And despite what GL says..."Only Sith deal in absolutes!" his films may clearly say otherwise.

ANyway, its clear from the preview to the next episode that we're far from done with the whole balance issue. I'm sure they'll continue to do a good job, only to frack it up at the last moment like Savage.

Originally posted by queeq
OMG.... floating rocks.... bioluminant trees.... major major Avatar rip off... Star Wars has reached a new low... it needs other films to copy from.

Because it hasn't been parodying itself for years not? There are so many "parallels" within the series sometimes I just feel its rehash/self-parody. "Hello there!" "Hello there!" "Hello there!"

Is the son suppose to be evil or the embodiment of the dark side? I sure hope not. It takes away from Palpatine's character.

I don't like the idea of different sides of the force taking forms, if that is where they're going with this.

Originally posted by Ordo
Because it hasn't been parodying itself for years not? There are so many "parallels" within the series sometimes I just feel its rehash/self-parody. "Hello there!" "Hello there!" "Hello there!"

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Is the son suppose to be evil or the embodiment of the dark side? I sure hope not. It takes away from Palpatine's character.

I don't like the idea of different sides of the force taking forms, if that is where they're going with this.

I agree.

Me too.

OMG - next rip off. They're using Sauron's tower from LOTR.

How about them just ripping off all of Episode 3?

Whadda ya mean? Ep3 is SW at least. Then it's not called ripping off... it means copying from before.

Not a great episode. It makes the entire Jedi-Sith thing kinda small now. Palpy just a puppet from higher forces... Why Anakin, the only one who can control the Dark Force Wielder, then submits to Palpy (a mere tool of the Force Wielder) is beyond me.

Anakin's corruption here is even more pathetic. At least in ROTS he has a potential reason to turn (preventing padme from dying), now he just says "do you promise me peace?". Like, WTF?
"Hey, Anakin, you will turn in a quite a bastard force of evil in the future"
"That's impossible, I would never do such terrible things!"
"Of course not, you just have to join me, an evil dark side user even more powerful, thus joining to the dark side and becoming the exact same thing you just saw"
"Ok, guess I will turn to dark side then"

I guess if I gave him 5 bucks he would turn as well. God, just the promise of 5 bucks would probably make him turn to the dark side. Talk about dedication...

I don't really see how this trilogy explained what bringing balance truly means. All it did was let us know what Anakin must do in order to bring balance: To let go of his attachments and hate (which we already knew). This trilogy was more about Anakin bringing balance within himself.

We are left knowing just as much as we did before this trilogy.

SECRETS REVEALED!!!!!1

Well, it was weird and fun. I enjoyed it.

I didnt watch. I'm sure it was an abomination.

Originally posted by REXXXX
Well, it was weird and fun. I enjoyed it.

yeah me too

i thought it was good

too bad these guys died , they should do a what if where the son faces off palpatine

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I don't really see how this trilogy explained what bringing balance truly means. All it did was let us know what Anakin must do in order to bring balance: To let go of his attachments and hate (which we already knew). This trilogy was more about Anakin bringing balance within himself.

No, it wasn't. It showed higher force beings exist than Jedi and Sith and that Anakin is able to control them. That's weird... why submit to a Sith Lord???? Anakin would by this trilogy be much more powerful than Palpy. And indeed very turnable.

Originally posted by queeq
Anakin would by this trilogy be much more powerful than Palpy. And indeed very turnable.

Don't forget that the planet stimulated his abilities. As Kenobi said: 'This planet is the Force!'

But Kenobi was no match for these force wielders... So Anakin is already much more powerful.

Now next week we get more ripoffs. I guess there are no original ideas left, so self-parody is the best option.

Originally posted by queeq
No way, dude. Balance of the Force is light side only. Lucas said that many times..



Did he? We first heard the prophecy in Episode I. By the time Episode III came out, the Jedi council started to think they had misread the prophecy. Wasn't balance achieved by reducing the number of Jedi & Sith to two each, really?

Lucas has made his illogical theories about balance repeatedly clear.

Its just his franchise that contradicts him

What throws me off is that "The balance is light side only" is an oxymoron. Something can not be "balanced" if there is only one component to it.

I wish I had not seen this;
http://www.starwars.com/video/view/001225.html

I love both of these characters, maybe one more than the other, but still... For once, it would have been great to have had characters not been looked down upon by the "movie purists" and have the characters that you respect and love not be trashed for simply not being in the movies. They would have been as canon as everything else you see in The Clone Wars. Ahhh, so close...

They both suck. Thank god their trashing of Star Wars has minuscule limits.

Originally posted by Ordo
They both suck. Thank god their trashing of Star Wars has minuscule limits.
Wow, you just can never be nice, can you Ordo?

Originally posted by Dark Exile
Wow, you just can never be nice, can you Ordo?

Your like a more elitist, KMC version of Comic Book Guy.
"Worst. Clone Wars Episode. Ever."



In all seriousness though, finding this out kinda turns me off the show. Would have been a great way to merge concepts and put to rest old prejudices. I guess I will have more interest if Savage shows up again. As for now, not really gonna care anymore.

Thankfully I'm not obese. And yeah, I think this entire show sucks pretty hard. So does most of the EU, including this show, which is the exact opposite of what we were promised.

Revan is a fanboy(girl) cult and I think my disdain for the vapid tale that is KOTOR is well known around these parts. Bane seems useless to me. There is a reason I stick mostly to movies...and thats because they're generally the solid part of this series. I dont care for badassery, I care for depth and meaning and drama. Revan and bane seem to have all the hooting and hollering of an MMA fight. I select EU that I like and toss out the rest. I dont see how Revan or Bane contribute anything to the story, but when the story stinks to begin with, what can they add? We don't even know wtf the "Son" is, its all just a farce to put another sith lord in drag and destroy the drama of the movies. Like some mystical Pandora in a spinning top somehow controls the fate of the universe, Anakin will bow to any man who offers him jelly beans, and nothing in the old trilogy was an original concept, it was just Anakin rehashing the same plot over and over again

All this show has proved to me lately is that an ever-beautiful creation cant save an utter lack of vision and plot.

Hows that?

Originally posted by Ordo
Thankfully I'm not obese. And yeah, I think this entire show sucks pretty hard. So does most of the EU, including this show, which is the exact opposite of what we were promised.

Revan is a fanboy(girl) cult and I think my disdain for the vapid tale that is KOTOR is well known around these parts. Bane seems useless to me. There is a reason I stick mostly to movies...and thats because they're generally the solid part of this series. I dont care for badassery, I care for depth and meaning and drama. Revan and bane seem to have all the hooting and hollering of an MMA fight. I select EU that I like and toss out the rest. I dont see how Revan or Bane contribute anything to the story, but when the story stinks to begin with, what can they add? We don't even know wtf the "Son" is, its all just a farce to put another sith lord in drag and destroy the drama of the movies. Like some mystical Pandora in a spinning top somehow controls the fate of the universe, Anakin will bow to any man who offers him jelly beans, and nothing in the old trilogy was an original concept, it was just Anakin rehashing the same plot over and over again

All this show has proved to me lately is that an ever-beautiful creation cant save an utter lack of vision and plot.

Hows that?

I could go through your argument and pick things apart, but in the end where would that get us? This is not the place nor is this the time, Star Wars is different things to different people, and people will always want to see what they want to see. You have some valid points and I respect your opinion. I just wish you would one day respect others.

Disagreeing is not disrespecting. Calling me "elitist" and disrespectful, or likening me to cartoon characters, those are personal attacks. I don't really care about them nor do I find them hurtful, but I haven't leveled any at you. Just sayin.

You shouldn't take offense just because someone doesn't like the same comic book characters as you.

Originally posted by Ordo
Disagreeing is not disrespecting. Calling me "elitist" and disrespectful, or likening me to cartoon characters, those are personal attacks. I don't really care about them nor do I find them hurtful, but I haven't leveled any at you. Just sayin.

You shouldn't take offense just because someone doesn't like the same comic book characters as you.

Perhaps it is just the wording in your posts. I have been in and out of the forums over the last couple of years(college really is a pain) and I have never really seen you pass your opinion of as just that, an opinion. Saying things like "they suck", "trashed" greater saga, comes off too harsh. I am sure there are other examples of a sense of "final" and "absolute" judgement floating on the forum somewhere. As for myself, I am not a Karen Traviss fan, but I don't go around berating her work whenever it is mentioned. I realize Star Wars includes things I am not really a fan of, and so I just respectfully decline and pass it off to the next person.

I might not particularly care for something but that doesn't mean it is "trashing" the Star Wars universe.

Ordo is just disappointed in CW and expresses that. I agree with him, I think it's taking down the whole SW concept into mediocreness... The PT started that already.

The point is, there are a lot of fans who love SW and want to love everything Lucas gives them SW wise. And that is fine. But there are people who have issues with SW on very reasonable levels (drama, logic, sequence, characters, humour, intelligence, contradictions etc etc). And for some reason if you address the dramatic problems and the complete turn around of certain story aspects of SW like CW is doing often, then you're considered elitist or something...

So out of fanship, why can't people like Ordo just address the problems of these series? isn't that what the forum is about? Not jkust: if you like it,you adore it. If you don't like a part of it, walk away.

Silly.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
What throws me off is that "The balance is light side only" is an oxymoron. Something can not be "balanced" if there is only one component to it.

That's not an oxymoron, so long as you understand what is meant by 'Light Side'. Simply by saying 'Light Side' you automatically imply that all components within are balanced. The Dark Side is, basically, anything that would throw that balance off.

Originally posted by Dark Exile
I wish I had not seen this;
http://www.starwars.com/video/view/001225.html

I love both of these characters, maybe one more than the other, but still... For once, it would have been great to have had characters not been looked down upon by the "movie purists" and have the characters that you respect and love not be trashed for simply not being in the movies. They would have been as canon as everything else you see in The Clone Wars. Ahhh, so close...

I have never liked Bane... But we were so close to having Revan!

Originally posted by queeq
Ordo is just disappointed in CW and expresses that. I agree with him, I think it's taking down the whole SW concept into mediocreness... The PT started that already.

The point is, there are a lot of fans who love SW and want to love everything Lucas gives them SW wise. And that is fine. But there are people who have issues with SW on very reasonable levels (drama, logic, sequence, characters, humour, intelligence, contradictions etc etc). And for some reason if you address the dramatic problems and the complete turn around of certain story aspects of SW like CW is doing often, then you're considered elitist or something...

So out of fanship, why can't people like Ordo just address the problems of these series? isn't that what the forum is about? Not jkust: if you like it,you adore it. If you don't like a part of it, walk away.

Silly.

No, by all means, express one's fanship. Just do not assume that because you don't care for something, others will dislike it as well. It is just a little disparaging to be very passionate about a section of Star Wars and be told that it is "trash." I myself find AOTC to already be a really low point in the lore, but I am not going to make fans of it feel bad about liking it.

I am.


Balance of the Force is considered by Lucas as HARMONY. Dark Side represents disharmony and there for has no place in a Force in balance.

Yup. It's what everyone struggles with. Lucas is not using 'balance' in the sense of an intergalactic teeter-totter. It is as Queeq says above.

I just enjoy the series because it's fun to watch and it's more of something I already have enjoyment for.

The Force is not a seesaw.

It is to everyone who isn't Lucas (or a minon).

Tsk tsk... now you're getting nasty.

Ghosts of Mortis was one of the worst episodes of the series. None of it made any sense. The assaults on canon were horrendous, the ending vapid and predictable, and the plot illogical and contrived. I dont even want to go through and list all the errors and inconsistancies.

But relevant to the conversation, as per the episode the "scales of good and evil" is a see-saw mechanism, not a Lucas non-mechanism. Lucas can blither whatever he wants in his senility. The evidence is to the contrary.

Which was exactly the point... Why deviate from the 'balance=harmony' concept?

Originally posted by Ordo
It is to everyone who isn't Lucas (or a minon).

Pretty much the only response to this is 'You are mistaken' when it comes to discussing this topic.


I agree Ghosts of Mortis was a weak conclusion. I liked Altar.

I hated the whole trilogy.

Originally posted by queeq
I hated the whole trilogy.

Wise as always queeq

Hehehe

Originally posted by queeq
Which was exactly the point... Why deviate from the 'balance=harmony' concept?

I think the films always have. But why so explicitly? I dont know.

I don't think the films deviated from that concept. It's George's concept and he made the movies... ???

Ordo's differing opinion there is noted and has been noted before, but that's a pointless argument that I don't want to see here. GL's thoughts on the matter are clear and Ordo's bile towards GL is indeed making things unpleasant.

The Balance debate has been done to death and we've long established how it is in the films. Move it on.

Yessir.

Citadel was another run of the mill episode. Not bad, not great either.
Apart from the ESB detroying carbonite scenes, there's also Tarking appearing.
I don't really get why they bring up so mamny familiar faces. It doesn't make the episodes more exciting. We know exactly who's gonna survive: all of them except the anonimous ones. And Ahsoka might check out this series, who knows, but then, do we really care when she does?

I'd care. She is the only new character they've actually invested in.

Their solution to character developement and bringing back fans is not to develop character or give the show meaning, but instead to be "Look! You like Chewbacca! Here is Chewbacca! See? All better now!"

Course, all this means from my perspective is you OT fans have to endure the bastardization of your characters now, as I have for the past 2.5 years.

Not just bastardisation, also the complete lack of an interesting story arc. And that's even worse.

We can start betting who'd we see next. Lando? Lobot before the lobotomy? Bossk? Zuckuss? Grandpa Wampa?

I'm thinking Chewies family ala Christmas Special.

THEN EWOKS.

It'll come. After the carbonite thing, anything is possible.

Originally posted by queeq
Not just bastardisation, also the complete lack of an interesting story arc. And that's even worse.

We can start betting who'd we see next. Lando? Lobot before the lobotomy? Bossk? Zuckuss? Grandpa Wampa?

You're forgetting that they have already used Bossk. You should see the episode commentary of the carbonite episode... Filony explains how the carbonite thing makes sense, which ofcourse it does not.

His explanations never make senses. You can tell its vapid unoriginality.

On the upside, I am thrilled the Trandoshans are coming in.

Well, maybe it does from the Clone Wars point of view. The fact that it totally ruins ESB and makes Vader a dumb dolt from testing the chamber, while it seems in this episode, 20 years earlier, quite common practise (six people in one go WITHOUT testing), is the real gripe. That and the total lack of imagination...

Oh yeah.. they did use Bossk... *face palm*

Good thing I forget stuff like that. Thank you so very very much for reminding me...

Its ok, Lucas has a short, selective memory too.

Originally posted by Ordo
Its ok, Lucas has a short, selective memory too.

Care to elaborate?

Do we care he elaborates?

^^^ probly not

Hehehe

I wasnt going to anyway.

Originally posted by queeq
Do we care he elaborates?

I care

THere's always PM.

Originally posted by queeq
THere's always PM.

nah, way too much bureaucracy

Is it?

Just watched CW... So, Even Piell...

Big "continuty" **** up there, at least for the EU... I wonder what they are going to do with it? I mean they can't say he actually survived that as his body was thrwon into lava...

Not in CW... it has a chronology of its own.

Originally posted by ares834
Big "continuty" **** up there, at least for the EU... I wonder what they are going to do with it? I mean they can't say he actually survived that as his body was thrwon into lava...

what continuity?

what happens in the EU?

Even Piell lives untill sometime during Order 66. His death triggers a triliogy of books called Coruscant Nights.

But then, that's EU.

Let's be honest here. Do you think George Lucas does even care about EU anymore?

I was under the impression he NEVER cared


pretty much as I do... though the Maul's brother thing did irked me

Yeah, GL has never really given a rat's ass about the EU. He does, however, occassionaly take elements from it and add it to his universe.

I was honestly just surprised that he'd do such a blatant kick to the EU fans. I doubt he didn't know...

He knows everything.

Originally posted by S_D_J
I was under the impression he NEVER cared


pretty much as I do... though the Maul's brother thing did irked me

Well, I'm sure he will be dead before it's over, so no harm done to continuity.
It's like the comics - just prior to the release of Revenge Of The Sith, I read a Star Wars anthology comic that had as the lead story Darth maul surviving - making cybernetic legs for himself - tracking Obi Wan to Tatooine, and having a lightsaber battle with him in front of the Lars farm (and an infant Luke), where Maul is basically killed by a laser-rifle shot by Owen Lars as he is held at Obi Wan's mercy. Owen then orders Obi Wan to leave and not bother Luke, with Obi Wan promising to himself he will keep watching over Luke.
In the end, continuity stayed intact.

Cybernetic legs... hahahaha. Did he have cybernetic bowels as well?

Originally posted by roughrider
Well, I'm sure he will be dead before it's over, so no harm done to continuity.
It's like the comics - just prior to the release of Revenge Of The Sith, I read a Star Wars anthology comic that had as the lead story Darth maul surviving - making cybernetic legs for himself - tracking Obi Wan to Tatooine, and having a lightsaber battle with him in front of the Lars farm (and an infant Luke), where Maul is basically killed by a laser-rifle shot by Owen Lars as he is held at Obi Wan's mercy. Owen then orders Obi Wan to leave and not bother Luke, with Obi Wan promising to himself he will keep watching over Luke.
In the end, continuity stayed intact.

Also read that one. I hope they use it as a reference for TCW Maul.

Originally posted by roughrider
Well, I'm sure he will be dead before it's over, so no harm done to continuity.
It's like the comics - just prior to the release of Revenge Of The Sith, I read a Star Wars anthology comic that had as the lead story Darth maul surviving - making cybernetic legs for himself - tracking Obi Wan to Tatooine, and having a lightsaber battle with him in front of the Lars farm (and an infant Luke), where Maul is basically killed by a laser-rifle shot by Owen Lars as he is held at Obi Wan's mercy. Owen then orders Obi Wan to leave and not bother Luke, with Obi Wan promising to himself he will keep watching over Luke.
In the end, continuity stayed intact.

That book is call Visionaries. Those were Infinity Stories, meaning that all of them were never, nor will they ever be, part of any continuity, be it EU or Canon.
They're just "what if" tales. If I remember correctly they were artists interpretation of what could work visually on ROTS, such as Grievous, Mustafar, Utapau... and Maul's legs, which resemble Grievous legs

http://furiousfanboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Visionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg

With any luck, we'll never see Maul in clone wars.

Originally posted by Ordo
With any luck, we'll never see Maul in clone wars.

QFT

No, no Maul please.

However, they do seem to run out of ideas...

After seeing the packaging for 2012 I have the feeling Maul is going to be a VERY strong focus again, hell we are getting TPM in theatres once more . A CW appearance is unavoidable. It is your destiny.


Also, I liked the throw back line Saesee Tiin had in "Rescue."

Our destiny to cringe?

Strangely enough, episode 21 has already aired in the UK :/

Originally posted by Hybris
Strangely enough, episode 21 has already aired in the UK :/

that happened last season as well

was it good?

Really? Hmm... interesting.

I watched it myself. Wasn't bad I guess...

It was about:

Trandoshans capture Ahsoka and use her for sport on a planet they use for hunting. She meets several grown younglings, and starts to stir them to try and escape while Anakin worries about finding her.

More of the same it seems...

Looks like the whole idea of this episode was taken from the latest Predator movie. How owiginal...

It was all too predictable I guess. But I still enjoyed it to some degree.