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This is a guantlet folks! The entire Trans Tier (Marvel+DC) vs the following....how far do they get?

1) The Unimind...
2) Dormammu + all his Mindless Ones in the heart of the Dark Dimension...
3) Odin + Surter (no amps or gear)...
4) Odin (limited to only calling Gungnir) + Surter (has Twilight)...
5) Demogorge (at peak power)...
6) 2000ft Asgardian Destroyer with Gungnir in hand...
7) The Shaper of Worlds...
8) Kubik + The Shaper of Worlds...
9) Arishem the Judge...
10) BCA Galactus...

it really depends how much trastiers there are

Zoom
Runner
Morg W/wol
Onslaught

Thanos and DP Tyrant are also in the wrong tier.

2 should be higher then it is.

I see them mabye, possibly squeezing past 4 and 5 but no way in hell are they passing 6.

@Thanosi and Black Bolt...

I dont agree with the tiers as a whole either, but at some point in time this was the consensus here evidently; maybe we can have them redone at some point...


@whoever thinks the Trans Tier clears...

Why do you think they clear? I wont say that you are wrong, but I am very curious as to why you think they can beat the more powerful challenges in this gauntlet...

The Trans tier listed on KMC? Stops at five in my opinion.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@whoever thinks the Trans Tier clears...

Why do you think they clear? I wont say that you are wrong, but I am very curious as to why you think they can beat the more powerful challenges in this gauntlet... Whoever thinks the tran's clear the gauntlet obviously doesn't know the power or trans's or the power of the people on the list.

switch 5 and 6 for sure if not putting Dem above Kubic. Also Ara should be lower on the list not exactly sure where but destroyer armor is definitely enough to wreck him and Dem can definitely wreck a single pantheon if we're talking about him at his peak post consuming thousands of gods.

Originally posted by Uriel005
switch 5 and 6 for sure if not putting Dem above Kubic. Also Ara should be lower on the list not exactly sure where but destroyer armor is definitely enough to wreck him and Dem can definitely wreck a single pantheon if we're talking about him at his peak post consuming thousands of gods.

Switching 5 for 6 is arguable...but is within reason...putting Demogorge above Kubik is not however; Kubik literally has universe reality warping ability...Demogorge has no feat to suggest he's that powerful.

Arishem is clearly beyond the 2000ft Destroyer (as is demostrated in Thor 300) and Kubik (by his own admission) is far below a Celestial...

So you can argue 5 and 6, but the rest I think is spot on...

Every trans?

Originally posted by Sirius77
Every trans?

Yep...all of them...every single Trans Tier from Marvel and DC.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Switching 5 for 6 is arguable...but is within reason...putting Demogorge above Kubik is not however; Kubik literally has universe reality warping ability...Demogorge has no feat to suggest he's that powerful.

Arishem is clearly beyond the 2000ft Destroyer (as is demostrated in Thor 300) and Kubik (by his own admission) is far below a Celestial...

So you can argue 5 and 6, but the rest I think is spot on... If kubik is below a celestial and Odin took on a host in 2000ft destroyer then how is he above destroyer.

Originally posted by Uriel005
If kubik is below a celestial and Odin took on a host in 2000ft destroyer then how is he above destroyer.

Just because the 2000ft Destroyer took on a Celestial Host doesnt mean its on their level...

I mean, Captain America could "take on" all of Galactus's Heralds, and he isnt on their level...

Bottomline is "taking on" someone isnt a good indicator at all of what your power level is; theoretically, a puppy could "take on" Galactus...and we all know how that would turn out.

Besides (as pertains the 2000ft Destroyer vs a Celestial Host) the AD was unable to do anything significant to them at all...so it is clearly beneath them.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Just because the 2000ft Destroyer took on a Celestial Host doesnt mean its on their level...

I mean, Captain America could "take on" all of Galactus's Heralds, and he isnt on their level...

Bottomline is "taking on" someone isnt a good indicator at all of what your power level is; theoretically, a puppy could "take on" Galactus...and we all know how that would turn out.

Besides (as pertains the 2000ft Destroyer vs a Celestial Host) the AD was unable to do anything significant to them at all...so it is clearly beneath them. I understand your point but I just meant to say that if the celestials were so far beyond kubik I think they could have waved a hand at the destroyer and wiped it and because they didn't I have always been of the opinion that the celestials are not matching their hype and Kubik may well in fact be more powerful and his relative weakness a perception built into him by the celestials. Kind of like Forge and Nimrod type of scenario where yes Forge can create near god-level tech but it doesn't make him more powerful than it.

What does BCA Galactus stand for?

Originally posted by Sirius77
What does BCA Galactus stand for?

Black Celestial Arc. It was a Fantastic Four storyline that had Tiamut alter Galactus hunger and increase it exponentially. He was eatin' the universe till Reed and crew got him the Nullifier and he offed himself.

Thats intense. I'll have to read that. So for the sake of argument, what's to stop some of the copycats on team trans from copying? Here's a look at the trans list:

Amazo, Appolyon, The Asgardian Destroyer, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus


This is a really interesting thread, there should be more healthy discussion lol. So people, why do all of these stop at 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever? The trans probably do lose, but in all of your opinions, why?

I think they stop at Arshiem.

Although I'd move the Destroyer up right behind Arshiem and move Kubik/Shaper down.

1) The Unimind...
2) Dormammu + all his Mindless Ones in the heart of the Dark Dimension...
3) The Shaper of Worlds...
4) Odin + Surter (no amps or gear)...
5) Odin (limited to only calling Gungnir) + Surter (has Twilight)...
6) Kubik + The Shaper of Worlds...
7) Demogorge (at peak power)...
8) 2000ft Asgardian Destroyer with Gungnir in hand...
9) Arishem the Judge...
10) BCA Galactus...


BCA Galactus really didn't do anything except stay in one place and devour the universe :P

Give the trans tier some prep....

With Fate, Strange and Thanos, they could come up with some uber ridiculous poop. They could tech Amazo to mere godlike status, who could become virtually indestructible. Scary to think what they could do to H/P Doomsday.

I don't know, there's some characters I'm not at all that familiar with. But, jeepers there's some firepower in that trans tier team. DP Tyrant? Onslaught? Keeper? Putting those heads together and amping someone driving the Asgardian Destroyer would interesting.

Originally posted by zopzop
I think they stop at Arshiem.

Although I'd move the Destroyer up right behind Arshiem and move Kubik/Shaper down.

1) The Unimind...
2) Dormammu + all his Mindless Ones in the heart of the Dark Dimension...
3) The Shaper of Worlds...
4) Odin + Surter (no amps or gear)...
5) Odin (limited to only calling Gungnir) + Surter (has Twilight)...
6) Kubik + The Shaper of Worlds...
7) Demogorge (at peak power)...
8) 2000ft Asgardian Destroyer with Gungnir in hand...
9) Arishem the Judge...
10) BCA Galactus...


BCA Galactus really didn't do anything except stay in one place and devour the universe :P Explain how they get past 6.

And what the hell is this order?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Explain how they get past 6.

By crushing them?



Easy Cube Being slightly > Skyfather (as mentioned by Thor in Atlantis Attacks Thor Annual). So two high end Skyfathers > one Cube Being.

Two Cube Beings slight > two high end Skyfathers.

Demogorge (classic) > any Skyfather or even group of them, hence > then two Cube Beings.

Asgardian Destroyer with Odin + all Asgard + Odin Sword took it to EIGHT Celestials. Sure he lost but hey.

Arshiem > any Celestial with exceptions like Exitar/Tiamut/Scathan.

Originally posted by zopzop
By crushing them?



Easy Cube Being slightly > Skyfather (as mentioned by Thor in Atlantis Attacks Thor Annual). So two high end Skyfathers > one Cube Being.

Two Cube Beings slight > two high end Skyfathers.

Demogorge (classic) > any Skyfather or even group of them, hence > then two Cube Beings.

Asgardian Destroyer with Odin + all Asgard + Odin Sword took it to EIGHT Celestials. Sure he lost but hey.

Arshiem > any Celestial with exceptions like Exitar/Tiamut/Scathan. They crush the 2000 foot asgardian destroyer?

That logic is extremely flawed. Shaper has makes whole realities of his own every other appearance and Kubik warped a whole universe with ease.

Skyfathers don't even come close to that?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
They crush the 2000 foot asgardian destroyer?

No, they just BARELY clear it, and not without taking heavy casualties. Anyone before that they clear with moderate to high difficulty.



When has the Shaper made ONE reality let alone "realities"? Kubik, ONCE, warped the half Cosmic Cube Beyonder's pocket dimension.



Odin and Seth threatened all reality with destruction during their fight. Skyfathers aren't hurting for feats.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, they just BARELY clear it, and not without taking heavy casualties. Anyone before that they clear with moderate to high difficulty.



When has the Shaper made ONE reality let alone "realities"? Kubik, ONCE, warped the half Cosmic Cube Beyonder's pocket dimension.



Odin and Seth threatened all reality with destruction during their fight. Skyfathers aren't hurting for feats. Who in the trans tier could even do damage to it?

In a hulk issue. Odin has busted a galaxy ONCE. Odin has shaken the reality ONCE.

According to you ONCE feats don't count. They have done that ONCE.

not only that but you still haven't quantified that for me. Its just super flawed logic.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Who in the trans tier could even do damage to it?

Individually none of them. Collectively they take it down but lose many in the process.



"In a Hulk issue" is not an answer. What Hulk issue so we can try to find it for context? Odin has busted galaxies more than once. Check his respect thread. You are correct that, to my knowledge, Odin has only shaken ALL reality only once. That's still better than anything Kubik or Shaper have done.



My slow slow friend. The power output necessary for that feat is stupendous. Where does it rank as a combat feat is unknown since combat feats are fickle. We all saw what Spiderman did to Firelord and no one doubts Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's.

Originally posted by zopzop
Individually none of them. Collectively they take it down but lose many in the process.



"In a Hulk issue" is not an answer. What Hulk issue so we can try to find it for context? Odin has busted galaxies more than once. Check his respect thread. You are correct that, to my knowledge, Odin has only shaken ALL reality only once. That's still better than anything Kubik or Shaper have done.



My slow slow friend. The power output necessary for that feat is stupendous. Where does it rank as a combat feat is unknown since combat feats are fickle. We all saw what Spiderman did to Firelord and no one doubts Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's. Who of any can do damage to it? One bane against thanos meand nothing. Adding another hundred won't make them more effective.

Somewhere between #150 and 180. So shaking is better then warping a whole universe IYO?

Combat feats>all else. And no. By combat feats we know firelord>spiderman. See this is that high/low showing thing you don't seem to get.

Where would you put MJJ and other reality warps.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Who of any can do damage to it? One bane against thanos meand nothing. Adding another hundred won't make them more effective.

INDIVIDUALLY none of them is a match for it, COLLECTIVELY they can take it down but lose many in the process. DP Tyrant could damage it, but just by himself he'd get crushed. Luckily he's not by himself.



Wow, way to narrow it down to 'only' thirty issues. Post the exact issue or retract and admit you were bullxxxing. Warping half a Cosmic Cube's pocket dimension vs shaking the entire multiverse (multiverse being an infinite collection of universes), guess which one is more impressive?



I know what a low showing is. But it still doesn't change the fact that Spiderman's combat feat win over Firelord is meaningless because we know Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Who in the trans tier could even do damage to it?

In a hulk issue. Odin has busted a galaxy ONCE. Odin has shaken the reality ONCE.

According to you ONCE feats don't count. They have done that ONCE.

not only that but you still haven't quantified that for me. Its just super flawed logic.

Odin has shown Galactic level 4 times at least. In the fourth instance he was operating far beyond Galaxy busting however. That's not including Odin's reality warping feats such as the remnants of his magic creating an entire dimension.

When did Odin bust a Galaxy in a Hulk issue? I didn't even know he'd ever appeared in a Hulk issue (Except the one where he brought back a dead Hulk to life in #102) much less bust a Galaxy in one.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When did Odin bust a Galaxy in a Hulk issue? I didn't even know he'd ever appeared in a Hulk issue (Except the one where he brought back a dead Hulk to life in #102) much less bust a Galaxy in one.

You misread him Rage. He said Shaper of Worlds has created realities. I asked him for an example of one, he said it happened in a Hulk issue. Then I asked him which one and he didn't give me a specific issue just a vague "150-180".

For reference, the official levels used for the Trans tier were anything below Skyfather and above High Herald. Basically, anyone above Surfer but below Odin.

I ended up disliking the tiers because people didn't see them for what they were: general guides for those uninformed about certain characters, not an end-all list. But if you're going to use them in a vs. thread, an understanding of the level is in order. Too often people form their own ideas without realizing the original intent of the labels placed on the tiers.

Here was the list at the time of the thread closure:
Originally posted by Digi
Tier 4 (Highest)

Amazo, Appolyon, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus

Originally posted by zopzop
INDIVIDUALLY none of them is a match for it, COLLECTIVELY they can take it down but lose many in the process. DP Tyrant could damage it, but just by himself he'd get crushed. Luckily he's not by himself.



Wow, way to narrow it down to 'only' thirty issues. Post the exact issue or retract and admit you were bullxxxing. Warping half a Cosmic Cube's pocket dimension vs shaking the entire multiverse (multiverse being an infinite collection of universes), guess which one is more impressive?



I know what a low showing is. But it still doesn't change the fact that Spiderman's combat feat win over Firelord is meaningless because we know Firelord's power output dwarfs Spiderman's. DP tyrant isn't a trans...

Warping an entire universe.

Yes. Because of other combat feats we know this.Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin has shown Galactic level 4 times at least. In the fourth instance he was operating far beyond Galaxy busting however. That's not including Odin's reality warping feats such as the remnants of his magic creating an entire dimension.

When did Odin bust a Galaxy in a Hulk issue? I didn't even know he'd ever appeared in a Hulk issue (Except the one where he brought back a dead Hulk to life in #102) much less bust a Galaxy in one. Please name all the times Odin has busted a galaxy.

Originally posted by Digi
For reference, the official levels used for the Trans tier were anything below Skyfather and above High Herald. Basically, anyone above Surfer but below Odin.

I ended up disliking the tiers because people didn't see them for what they were: general guides for those uninformed about certain characters, not an end-all list. But if you're going to use them in a vs. thread, an understanding of the level is in order. Too often people form their own ideas without realizing the original intent of the labels placed on the tiers.

Here was the list at the time of the thread closure:

Ah...NOW I understand what you all did; above Surfer and below Odin, you labled all who met that criteria as "Trans."

So even if a character is a low or medium Skyfather (and thus would be under Odin), they still ended up in the Trans Tier...

So that explains why DP Tyrant is included here as he is (or rather the consensus was) below Odin...

Dp Tyrant and Thanos are certainly not Trans level

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Dp Tyrant and Thanos are certainly not Trans level

DP Tyrant, I agree fully; I'd put him around a mid-level Skyfather...

Thanos, I am "iffy" about; I look at him like I do Thor...

Most of the time Thor is in the high herald catagory, but he has a knack of reaching performance levels that are quite Trans level...

IMHO, Thanos is the same way; most of the time, he is Trans, but he does break into the low end of Skyfather from time to time...

Well Lord of Murder... that was a pretty fair assessment on your part and while I disagree (as I feel they are higher than you rank them) it was still pretty fair and worth a

@Thanosi...

Where would you rank them then? Also, who would you consider a low Skyfather?

Well, imo Tyrant is at least High Skyfather level = to Odin. Obviously, you've seen my post and I even feel like he's beyond the Skyfather category. Thanos.. I feel like is a low to mid skyfather level. However, I'm not opposed to Low as I think that is pretty fair. I do agree about characters fluctuating in power.. from Trans to Sky or whatever the case may be. Thanos is no different imo and does so as well.

Low Skyfathers to me would be... DS, Monarch, Zuras, Mephisto maybe even GA Prime..

Originally posted by Black bolt z
DP tyrant isn't a trans...

According to the OP, we are using this list :



We are using that list for the sake of the thread. Whether he is or isn't, isn't the point.



Warping a pocket dimension created by the power of 1/2 a Cosmic Cube vs threatening all reality with destruction and rocking the multiverse (the multiverse is an INFINITE collection of universes).


Check his respect thread. It has that and more.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t443095.html

Now answer my question, in which issue of the Hulk did Shaper create a reality?

I don't know man... I personally feel like WWH would do very well against supes and possible take a clear majority. People that would do good against WWH would be very versatile and powerful foes, who don't have to go fisticuffs with him. Supes would certainly go that route, and imo, that would be his downfall

Originally posted by zopzop
According to the OP, we are using this list :



We are using that list for the sake of the thread. Whether he is or isn't, isn't the point.



Warping a pocket dimension created by the power of 1/2 a Cosmic Cube vs threatening all reality with destruction and rocking the multiverse (the multiverse is an INFINITE collection of universes).


Check his respect thread. It has that and more.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t443095.html

Now answer my question, in which issue of the Hulk did Shaper create a reality? Why the hell is tyrant is that list? His is easily skyfather.

Yes. Because shaking and threatening mean nothing. Kubik has actual universe warping feats.

I'll check.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Why the hell is tyrant is that list? His is easily skyfather.

We're going by that list so it don't matter what he is.



Kubik has ONE pocket dimension created by 1/2 a Cosmic Cube feat. Odin has ONE multiverse (an infinite series of UNIVERSES) shaking feat. Odin's feats > Kubik's feats.



Thank you.

Originally posted by zopzop
We're going by that list so it don't matter what he is.



Kubik has ONE pocket dimension created by 1/2 a Cosmic Cube feat. Odin has ONE multiverse (an infinite series of UNIVERSES) shaking feat. Odin's feats > Kubik's feats.



Thank you. Actually it does.

I beg to differ. But its a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Actually it does.


Dude the OP specifically stated he wanted to use the "Trans Tier" as agreed upon by the forum members and I provided the list. Your opinion of what DP Tyrant is or isn't is meaningless because he didn't ask you.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude the OP specifically stated he wanted to use the "Trans Tier" as agreed upon by the forum members and I provided the list. Your opinion of what DP Tyrant is or isn't is meaningless because he didn't ask you. Its not just my opinion. I thought it was forum consensus that Tyrant is beyond trans.
I mean he beat thanos worse then Odin did and Odin is a high skyfather.

His feats put him beyond trans.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Its not just my opinion. I thought it was forum consensus that Tyrant is beyond trans.
I mean he beat thanos worse then Odin did and Odin is a high skyfather.

His feats put him beyond trans.

You just like being disagreeable don't you, look at the TITLE OF THE THREAD :


See the bolded part?

Originally posted by zopzop
You just like being disagreeable don't you, look at the TITLE OF THE THREAD :


See the bolded part? Yes. That tiering obviously needs to be updated it whoever made it believes Tyrant is in the same class as morg and thanos.

The tiers thread has been closed for over a year. There's no updates to be had. It became too contentious because people threw fits about 1-2 characters they disagreed with, not realizing that it was intended solely to approximate power levels for those who were new to the forums or not familiar with many characters. It could never be perfect because forum majority is far from consensus, meaning that everyone would have some issue with placements.

Take Tyrant, for example. I don't have an opinion on him vs. Odin, but a thread on it would be divided. And based on the votes in the tiers thread back when it was made, it was determined he was beneath Odin. Thus, he belongs in the tier.

The other fallacy was to think that everyone in the same tier was the same power level. Anything above Surfer but below Odin leaves a LOT of room for more/less powerful. It's an area of power, not a specific, exact level. People will coexist in the same tier that are different levels, but both of whom are clearly not in the tier above or below them. But people couldn't grasp that, and nerd-raged over single characters instead of letting it go, and derailed discussions that might have otherwise been productive.

Honestly, this thread is basically a slightly watered down microcosm of why it was closed. Making threads using it is a mistake.