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Sundips like OWAW..

Hm, interesting.

Zoom would still be far, far faster than Supes, but I'm not sure how much damage he'd be able to cause..?

Zoom.

Non sun dipped Superman would beat Zoom (heat vision the battlefield).

Sundipped just makes it easier, if he doesn't want to be moved, Zoom isn't moving him.

Zoom wins

How is Zoom moving him let alone hurting him? He has one loss to WW after he hurts her a bit and now he can beat Supes, especially a Supes choke full of power? There's other version of amped Supes that would treat him like a flea, like the time he was overloaded with power and got a hulked up body.

Either way Zoom loses to another top tier.

Waits for someone to bring up "THAT" Wonder Woman scan.

Originally posted by Galan007


Zoom would still be far, far faster than Supes, not really, wonder woman was able to keep up with zoom

Originally posted by Starscream M
not really, wonder woman was able to keep up with zoom it's called PIS if time is stopped for everyone but you then no one other than superspeedsters who can perceive time differently will ever stop you

Originally posted by Allankles
Non sun dipped Superman would beat Zoom (heat vision the battlefield). It's hard to HV the battlefield when you are literally a statue in comparison to your opponent.

That said, in no way/shape/form is Superman faster than a PIS-free Zoom. Here's a scan depicting that fact:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5653/zoomspeed1.th.jpg
(Superman was specifically shown as one of the heroes who were simply too slow to help Flash fight Zoom.)

Even after a sundip he's not going to be faster than Zoom -- or at least I've never seen anything alluding to him gaining THAT much of a speed boost upon doing so..

Originally posted by Starscream M
not really, wonder woman was able to keep up with zoom none

WW used her lasso to gain the upper hand on Zoom in issue #214 of her series -- but I have a few problems with that:

a.) For the lasso to even touch Zoom he MUST have been moving significantly slower than normal.... Either that, or Dianna can throw her lasso FTL. You pick.
b.) In a much more recent encounter, Zoom was able to easily break free of her lasso, while also dealing with the likes of Hal and Superman. This tells me that she may have been able to contain him when he was a noob, but certainly not after he became accustomed to his powers.

Originally posted by Galan007


WW used her lasso to gain the upper hand on Zoom in issue #214 of her series -- but I have a few problems with that:

a.) For the lasso to even touch Zoom he MUST have been moving significantly slower than normal.... Either that, or Dianna can throw her lasso FTL. You pick.
b.) In a much more recent encounter, Zoom was able to easily break free of her lasso, while also dealing with the likes of Hal and Superman. This tells me that she may have been able to contain him when he was a noob, but certainly not after he became accustomed to his powers. how about the time Wondy trapped zoom by kicking three pebbles around his vicinity?

you can't pick and choose as you please, Galan

Originally posted by Starscream M
how about the time Wondy trapped zoom by kicking three pebbles around his vicinity?

you can't pick and choose as you please, Galan Pick and choose? Not at all. Disregarding events of PIS? Definitely (that's a forum rule, after all.)

Why are the ridiculous showings you're clinging to PIS? Because when we have a character who is so fast that he consistently makes Wally friggin' West (even amped) look pathetically slow, when we have a character who is so fast that Superman himself is a statue in comparison, when we have a character whose 'speed' is based on time being frozen around him, it's logical to assume that subduing him in the ways you've mentioned literally defines PIS.

And as I said before, Zoom effortlessly broke free of Dianna's lasso in a far more recent encounter, while also dealing with Supes and Hal. So now you're left with, what? Rock kicking? srsly

Starscream pwned the ammount of lowballing being used by some people

Originally posted by Galan007
Pick and choose? Not at all. Disregarding events of PIS? Definitely (that's a forum rule, after all.)

Why are the ridiculous showings you're clinging to PIS? Because when we have a character who is so fast that he consistently makes Wally friggin' West (even amped) look pathetically slow, when we have a character who is so fast that Superman himself is a statue in comparison, when we have a character whose 'speed' is based on time being frozen around him, it's logical to assume that subduing him in the ways you've mentioned literally defines PIS.

And as I said before, Zoom effortlessly broke free of Dianna's lasso in a far more recent encounter, while also dealing with Supes and Hal. So now you're left with, what? Rock kicking? srsly

listen up pal....and listen up good!

I'm a vet, I know how to debate and I know what PIS is.

Wally and Wondy had how many encounters? 3 or 4

in the majority of those encounters, Wondy was able to subdue Wally..either through lasso or strategic means (rocks)

so I don't care about his encounters with superman looking like a statue (maybe THAT was PIS...did that ever occur to you?), the majority of his encounters against Wondy has Wondy having the upperhand

Hmm.. I wonder how fast a sundipped Supes can move...

http://img832.imageshack.us/i/zoomspeed1.jpg/

I once posted computations that show that the Zoom/Wally fight had them moving just slightly over light speed in this specific instance. ;P

Originally posted by Starscream M
l Stopped reading.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
http://img832.imageshack.us/i/zoomspeed1.jpg/

I once posted computations that show that the Zoom/Wally fight had them moving just slightly over light speed in this specific instance. ;P Considering we weren't given an exact amount of time the battle had been going on for, your computations can't be banked on.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Hmm.. I wonder how fast a sundipped Supes can move... Not fast enough to see Zoom.

Although can Zoom do enough damage to supes to but him down?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Not fast enough to see Zoom.
interesting....based on what?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Although can Zoom do enough damage to supes to but him down? Doubtful. OWAW Supes was an absolute beast.

Originally posted by Starscream M
interesting....based on what? Wally, amped with the speed of Bart and Jay, couldn't even perceive Zoom as more than a blur. Sundipped or not, Supes has no feats suggestive of being able to react to Zoom's level of speed.

Originally posted by Starscream M
interesting....based on what? I don't know. Mabye his feats?

Originally posted by Galan007


Wally, amped with the speed of Bart and Jay, couldn't even perceive Zoom as more than a blur. Sundipped or not, Supes has no feats suggestive of being able to react to Zoom's level of speed. ok, but iirc, didn't sundipped superman enter a different level of consciousness?

I mean its kinda baseless to speculate what he could perceive in that state imo

Originally posted by Galan007
Doubtful. OWAW Supes was an absolute beast.

Wally, amped with the speed of Bart and Jay, couldn't even perceive Zoom as more than a blur. Sundipped or not, Supes has no feats suggestive of being able to react to Zoom's level of speed. So really a stalemate. Zoom can't hurt supes and supes can see zoom.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok, but iirc, didn't sundipped superman enter a different level of consciousness?

I mean its kinda baseless to speculate what he could perceive in that state imo That's why I said he doesn't have feats suggestive of such. All we can do is speculate.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's why I said he doesn't have feats suggestive of such. All we can do is speculate. ok, agreed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Doubtful. OWAW Supes was an absolute beast.

Wally, amped with the speed of Bart and Jay, couldn't even perceive Zoom as more than a blur. Sundipped or not, Supes has no feats suggestive of being able to react to Zoom's level of speed.


so if you were a betting man, who wins this?

Originally posted by Galan007
Stopped reading.

sorry starscream--that was DAMN funny. THAT is why he's my partner.

as for the fight--have we ever seen sun-dipped kal hurt or really pushed in a fight? can't recall all the scenes in oww.

Originally posted by leonidas
sorry starscream--that was DAMN funny. THAT is why he's my partner.

as for the fight--have we ever seen sun-dipped kal hurt or really pushed in a fight? can't recall all the scenes in oww. bashful

Not that I can remember. Any time we've seen Supes sundip, he's shredded through any opposition without much effort. God help Zoom if Supes DOES manage to grab ahold of him.

Originally posted by Galan007
bashful

Not that I can remember. Any time we've seen Supes sundip, he's shredded through any opposition without much effort. God help Zoom if Supes DOES manage to grab ahold of him. big if there

Supes 10/10.. All he needs to do is turn the battleground to ashes, that should greatly reduce Zoom speed for a 1 hit KO..

Originally posted by Ambient
Supes 10/10.. All he needs to do is turn the battleground to ashes, that should greatly reduce Zoom speed for a 1 hit KO..


are u referring to Shokosugi's "1 billion heat vision beams, napalm baby!" attacks?

Originally posted by Ambient
Supes 10/10.. All he needs to do is turn the battleground to ashes, that should greatly reduce Zoom speed for a 1 hit KO.. Don't see that happening, tbh.

lol's yahh.. 1 billion beam attack but really 1 beam should do the trick....

It should work less of course Zoom can finitely run in space..

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/hventireplanet1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/hventireplanet2.jpg

What the? What's that from, Phil?

It just seems WAY beyond what Supes is normally capable of.

He was sun-amped after going inside the Cannibal Planet (who eats suns) and freezing its brain.

That really is as awesome as it sounds. Adventures of Superman 620.

^ that scan is misleading since the heat is not focused/intense.

the hottest temperature caused by solar exposure are around 40+ celsius, so in terms of damage that wide heat vision feat isn't a threat as superman was attempting to restore normal sunlight.

if anyone knows the sun's output which strikes the earth, this may show the heat generated by his heat vision if math is applied to the distance he had to go to to cover the whole face of the earth + the heat necessary to equal the sun's output (on the earth), then by reducing the angle you can get the factor (or geometric factor) his his HV focuses the solar rays.

I think you mis-understood the purpose of that scan - it was soley to show that he can do wide-area heat vision attacks. The intensity is entirely dictated by Superman.

no offense or anything, but i'd like evidence of just that

Seriously? He has used it to heat Jimmy, for example.

yeah, you're going to have to spoon feed this one pal

issue #, scan?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah, you're going to have to spoon feed this one pal

issue #, scan? Superman v2 153. He does the same thing to Lois in Adventures of Superman 623, while pointing out how Lois shouldn't worry since he has complete control.

But this shouldn't really be needed because, quite frankly, it's logical.

Also, this:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8360/08222005124926pm7ji.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3679/08222005125029pm5zg.jpg

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1453/advofsupes62306.jpg

my only concern is if it's the same for a blast the same breadth as the earth covering one

Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty awesome. Never seen that one.

So yeah, if Supes gets the opportunity to use HV --especially with his OWAW mindset-- Zoom dies.

Just got back.

That's the scan I reference when I talk about Supes HV'ing the battle field. Should have been more specific.

Yeah, it would definitely work IF Supes got the opportunity to do so (big if, though.) Also remember that, while rarely seen, Zoom does possess vibrational control over his body that allows him to mimic intangibility.

Regardless, I can't imagine Zoom being able to cause much lasting damage to OWAW Supes. He's just a beast.