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Fight in a city.

does punisher get to choose the types of weapons he brings?

namely, does he have the forsight to bring hollow-point bullets?

team takes him out

On this forum? Wolverine, of course!

Wolverine ain't winning.

Originally posted by Trackz
team takes him out

*playing devils advocate

He's fast enough to tag each of them, and needs one good hit, how do they put him down before this happens? Punisher isnt fast enough to evade Logan, why wouldn't Logan just tank damage to close the gap, then take them apart in close quarters? Do you know how difficult it is for 3 people to organize a melee against 1 person at the same time? Theres only so much body they can hit and ontop of that they have to dodge the potential 1hitKO return fire. Logan HAS, the reach advantage, the skill advantage (arguably), the hefty durability advantage, the stamina advantage and the strength advantage.

What do these 3 combatants bring to a fight in terms of KO ability that an 18 hour fight with Omega Red doesn't? Is my point.

They would have to let punisher snipe with a very high powered rifle.

Something that can splatter entrails

Originally posted by Solidus Black
They would have to let punisher snipe with a very high powered rifle.

Something that can splatter entrails

na, the adamantium makes that less effective, you can't penetrate any critical organs

this is why hollow-point would be important. No exit wound, and the soft top tears apart Wolvie's insides.

Can he heal from it? sure, but enough of those in the gut/apendages/neck, combined with attacks from DD and MK, its enough to put him down and give the team a W, regardless if Wolverine gets back up again after some time

There is no adamantium around his stomach. And thatswhere the entrails are. lol

Originally posted by Juk3n
*playing devils advocate

Punisher isnt fast enough to evade Logan,

He is but not for long.

Originally posted by Solidus Black
There is no adamantium around his stomach. And thatswhere the entrails are. lol

you have a point, I tend to think hollow point would do more damage than a sniper round w/ exit wound, and it would be easier to hit a target like Wolv up close with a larger magazine, imho

Originally posted by Deadline
He is but not for long.

Not for any amount of time that could be actively called 'evasion'.

Originally posted by Juk3n
*playing devils advocate

He's fast enough to tag each of them, and needs one good hit, how do they put him down before this happens? Punisher isnt fast enough to evade Logan, why wouldn't Logan just tank damage to close the gap, then take them apart in close quarters? Do you know how difficult it is for 3 people to organize a melee against 1 person at the same time? Theres only so much body they can hit and ontop of that they have to dodge the potential 1hitKO return fire. Logan HAS, the reach advantage, the skill advantage (arguably), the hefty durability advantage, the stamina advantage and the strength advantage.

What do these 3 combatants bring to a fight in terms of KO ability that an 18 hour fight with Omega Red doesn't? Is my point.


a forum fight starts 500 yrds from each other doesnt it?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
a forum fight starts 500 yrds from each other doesnt it?
point being? at 500 yards, in a city Punisher isn't hitting Wolverine with a goddamn thing. And as for closing the gap, he's better at stealth than Batman! -yeah i said it-

If the trio seperate, then DD is the only one'll see/hear/sense Wolverine coming, they'd have to stay together so DD could tell them where Wolverine might be (if he could detect Logan in a city environment).

it's not a 500 yard long street inwhich wolverine has to walk down the middle to get to them, taking gunfire free shots from Pun.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
a forum fight starts 500 yrds from each other doesnt it?
Something a long those lines. though that does not help the team in the least. in fact it make it harder for them. Wolverine with free reign in a city from that distance would be able to literally vanish from detection (asside from DD). Team going to be losing at least one of there members from ambush alone (if they don't remain extremely close to DD)

Originally posted by Juk3n
point being? at 500 yards, in a city Punisher isn't hitting Wolverine with a goddamn thing.

depends on the weapon, but unless you are suggesting he is throwing the bullets, Punisher is at a far greater advantage from this distance than is wolverine

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Something a long those lines. though that does not help the team in the least. in fact it make it harder for them. Wolverine with free reign in a city from that distance would be able to literally vanish from detection (asside from DD). Team going to be losing at least one of there members from ambush alone (if they don't remain extremely close to DD)

Punisher isn't known for being able to track targets in a city?

Originally posted by inimalist



Punisher isn't known for being able to track targets in a city?
Yes, but so are numerous characters who failed to locate wolverine those include characters with superhuman senses. Wolverine is a beast when it comes to stealth. He will know were Punisher and the team are, they won't know were he is (asside from DD). So it depends how the team decides to play this out, do they remain in close to one another or split up.

Daredevil hits a pressure point and KO's wolverine

Can Logan's claws get passed MK's armor?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Can Logan's claws get passed MK's armor?
interesting question. I not sure, I heard it currently adamatium, but the grade is unknown to me nor have I seen many feats from it.

as usual we get the classic absurd statement from sasu

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
interesting question. I not sure, I heard it currently adamatium, but the grade is unknown to me nor have I seen many feats from it. I heard it's carbonadium.

But last time I've seen MK a raptor tore apart his costume.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I heard it's carbonadium.
I heard that as well. I heard he had a carbonadium one as well as an normal adamatium one.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
as usual we get the classic absurd statement from sasu

Wheres the proof that Wolverine is immune to pressure point strikes or that hes too fast for Daredevil?
Oh theres none so you just gotta resort to trolling

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I heard it's carbonadium.

But last time I've seen MK a raptor tore apart his costume. Where did you see him at?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes, but so are numerous characters who failed to locate wolverine those include characters with superhuman senses. Wolverine is a beast when it comes to stealth. He will know were Punisher and the team are, they won't know were he is (asside from DD). So it depends how the team decides to play this out, do they remain in close to one another or split up.

But this essentially ignores that Punisher's entire MO is moving quietly through cities, collecting intelligence on targets, and executing them

I can't remember the issue but in one of the Punisher/Wolverine fights, isn't this exactly what the Punisher does?

They are a team, that has Punisher's recon skill with DD's radar sense. I think the distance favors the three guys with ranged attacks (MK throws things, ya?)

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Where did you see him at? Heros for hire 3 IIRC.

If a raptor can do this I'd wager Logan can do worse.

Originally posted by inimalist
depends on the weapon, but unless you are suggesting he is throwing the bullets, Punisher is at a far greater advantage from this distance than is wolverine



Punisher isn't known for being able to track targets in a city?

because wolverine is gonna walk the direct route towards rifle fire from someone he knows is an Elite Marksman? Its a city, he cuts a left down an alley and moves through buildings to cut the distance.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Wheres the proof that Wolverine is immune to pressure point strikes or that hes too fast for Daredevil?
Oh theres none so you just gotta resort to trolling

His very first mini from more than 20 years ago where he was eating half a dozen of instant kill pressure point attacks from Shingen while poisoned, with a healing a 100th as powerful as it is today?

Or his fight with Echo were pressure points were stated to "only make him angry"?

Wolverine wins via stealth, or he decides to tank it... and still wins.

His fight with Echo showed him hitting the ground when she hit him with one.

Originally posted by Juk3n
because wolverine is gonna walk the direct route towards rifle fire from someone he knows is an Elite Marksman? Its a city, he cuts a left down an alley and moves through buildings to cut the distance.

While Punisher takes the time to set up a defensive position, taking advantage of DD's radar, making it nearly impossible for Wolverine to approach without being spotted

Originally posted by inimalist
But this essentially ignores that Punisher's entire MO is moving quietly through cities, collecting intelligence on targets, and executing them

I can't remember the issue but in one of the Punisher/Wolverine fights, isn't this exactly what the Punisher does?

They are a team, that has Punisher's recon skill with DD's radar sense. I think the distance favors the three guys with ranged attacks (MK throws things, ya?)
No it doesent. Punisher does this mainly against unexpecting mobsters. Not individuals who are quite aware he present and can do this
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5521/madripoorah2.jpg


You are refferring to Punisher vs DD, spiderman and wolverine cross over, which is the most pis riddle mess of a comic ive have ever read....as evidence common now.....in it wolverine drank acid for some unknown reason (because for some reason he lacked superhuman senses the entire run), spiderman got tricked by fake bombs (last I checked spiderman had a spidersense just so crap like that does not happen, oh wolverine also was so how unable to here a friggin rocket, wolverine took spiderman out with a single shot, dd did the same to wolverine while berseker all in all Spiderman and Wolverines powers and abilities were completely ignored through out the arc. So are you sure you want to use that as your "evidence" and I use that word lightly and that being absurdly generous.

unlikely before wolverine closes the gap in a city land scape.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
You are refferring to Punisher vs DD, spiderman and wolverine

I don't think I am... but I read this a couple of years ago

it was a one v one between the two

Originally posted by inimalist
But this essentially ignores that Punisher's entire MO is moving quietly through cities, collecting intelligence on targets, and executing them


Wolverine is superior in every way to Punisher in this matter.

Punisher vs the Marvel universe showed Wolverine getting killed by who?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
interesting question. I not sure, I heard it currently adamatium, but the grade is unknown to me nor have I seen many feats from it.


Logan cannot slash through any kind of adamantium.

Originally posted by inimalist
While Punisher takes the time to set up a defensive position, taking advantage of DD's radar, making it nearly impossible for Wolverine to approach without being spotted
assuming that they do this, something they never done ever while working togather.


also what defensive position might this be with standard equiptment?


Also whats to stop Wolverine from waiting them out? You do realize he could wait days with out eating and be fine, while the rest of them would be on death door in short order.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Punisher vs the Marvel universe showed Wolverine getting killed by who?

Originally posted by inimalist
While Punisher takes the time to set up a defensive position, taking advantage of DD's radar, making it nearly impossible for Wolverine to approach without being spotted

again, they're not in a castle surrounded by a moat, and this isnt a ghost land, this is a city, at 500 yards, DD isn't keeping a lock on 1 target. Especially one who is a master of stealth himself, and knows all he needs to know about Daredevils abilities and how they work.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Wolverine is superior in every way to Punisher in this matter.

yes, probably, but the idea that wolverine is going to leave Punisher scratching his head for what to do here is insane.

Originally posted by Bentley
Logan cannot slash through any kind of adamantium.
Thats untrue. It been stated before that he could and would. Secondary adamatium is not indestructible.

Originally posted by SasuOna
His fight with Echo showed him hitting the ground when she hit him with one.

No, no it didn't

Originally posted by Parmaniac

I know, he such a joke one can't help but

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Thats untrue. It been stated before that he could and would. Secondary adamatium is not indestructible.


Bring the statement -scans or issue numbers-, I'd prefer an actual panel showing, but obviously we cannot pick what has been printed before.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, no it didn't
Good luck with trying to convince him other wise. The kid an idiot, he was reading the comic wrong and thought wolverine fell over and was taken out by the pressure point attack despite the fact he clearly indicates it had no effect on him.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
assuming that they do this, something they never done ever while working togather.

lol?

you are right, CIS on, Punisher has never taken a defensive position...

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
also what defensive position might this be with standard equiptment?

... wut?

ummm, well, at the very least, a position with their back to a wall, height, etc... Cities have lots of "natural" places that people can either cover or defend from...

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Also whats to stop Wolverine from waiting them out? You do realize he could wait days with out eating and be fine, while the rest of them would be on death door in short order.

so, in your opinion, wolverine > anyone who eats?

Originally posted by Juk3n
again, they're not in a castle surrounded by a moat, and this isnt a ghost land, this is a city, at 500 yards, DD isn't keeping a lock on 1 target. Especially one who is a master of stealth himself, and knows all he needs to know about Daredevils abilities and how they work.

defensive position means a bit less than it seems you think it does. It is very easy to find locations, especially in cities, where you have sight on all places where a target could approach from. Further, cities provide cover, alleys, height, etc.

in a lot of ways, buildings provide "castles" with some obvious exceptions

Originally posted by Bentley
Bring the statement -scans or issue numbers-, I'd prefer an actual panel showing, but obviously we cannot pick what has been printed before.
Thunder bolts enemy of the state tie in. New swordsmen states his sword is secondary adamatium, though it holding up against wolverine adamatium claws it won't for long.

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, probably, but the idea that wolverine is going to leave Punisher scratching his head for what to do here is insane.

I never said he would, but at 500 yards, Daredevil WILL lose sight and sense of Logan until Logan makes an approach, and when Logan makes an approach it's not gonna be a screaming berserk one is it? If logan closes the gap to ..pfft 50 yards in the bustle of a city, then it's a lock, he can shift those 50 yards in seconds, and then it's a melee. Punishr will have to aim and fire at a blitzing Logan, while not hitting a defending Daredevil and assisting MK. If Logan goes for Pun FIRST then he has no close up defense.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes, but so are numerous characters who failed to locate wolverine those include characters with superhuman senses.

Like Captain America and Black Widow?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan

Wolverine is a beast when it comes to stealth. He will know were Punisher and the team are, they won't know were he is (asside from DD). So it depends how the team decides to play this out, do they remain in close to one another or split up.

You know something I don't think hes much better than Pun.



Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No it doesent. Punisher does this mainly against unexpecting mobsters. Not individuals who are quite aware he present and can do this
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5521/madripoorah2.jpg


You are refferring to Punisher vs DD, spiderman and wolverine cross over, which is the most pis riddle mess of a comic ive have ever read....as evidence common now.....in it wolverine drank acid for some unknown reason (because for some reason he lacked superhuman senses the entire run), spiderman got tricked by fake bombs (last I checked spiderman had a spidersense just so crap like that does not happen, oh wolverine also was so how unable to here a friggin rocket, wolverine took spiderman out with a single shot, dd did the same to wolverine while berseker all in all Spiderman and Wolverines powers and abilities were completely ignored through out the arc. So are you sure you want to use that as your "evidence" and I use that word lightly and that being absurdly generous.

unlikely before wolverine closes the gap in a city land scape.

GMAFB break Wolverine has been sneaked up on loads of times. Just throwing this out.

Punisher sneaks up on and seems to hypnotise a jaguar
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/203/punsneaksuponjag.th.jpg

Originally posted by Juk3n
I never said he would, but at 500 yards, Daredevil WILL lose sight and sense of Logan until Logan makes an approach, and when Logan makes an approach it's not gonna be a screaming berserk one is it? If logan closes the gap to ..pfft 50 yards in the bustle of a city, then it's a lock, he can shift those 50 yards in seconds, and then it's a melee. Punishr will have to aim and fire at a blitzing Logan, while not hitting a defending Daredevil and assisting MK. If Logan goes for Pun FIRST then he has no close up defense.

look, I'm not trying to say the team even wins, though I think punisher gives Wolverine much more of a challenge than most people give him (but then again, bullets in comics and so forth).

The fact remains, urban warfare tends to favor those taking the defensive, unless the aggressor has some serious ability to siege (air support, RPG, explosives, chain guns). Even a store on the first floor of a building, which could be quickly comendeered by the team, would provide adequate defensibility such that Wolverine isn't going to get a "drop" on the team. Go to 8th floor or something like that? Sure, Wolverine might still be able to tank their damage, but unless we suddenly think Punisher has no insight on battle tactics, we can assume he probably finds a location where the team is at least tactically given the advantage.

Originally posted by Deadline
Like Captain America and Black Widow?



You know something I don't think hes much better than Pun.





GMAFB break Wolverine has been sneaked up on loads of times. Just throwing this out.

Punisher sneaks up on and seems to hypnotise a jaguar
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/203/punsneaksuponjag.th.jpg

Wolverine has infiltrated the Baxter Building twice under his own stealth abilities (Punisher need a stupid stealth suit with glowing balls), and Stark Tower. He has got the drop on Spider-man and Daredevil, and avoided Strike Force X (who all had the same level of enhanced senses as Wolverine as well as built in thermal / night vision) for six days in the rain forest. Wolverine is SIGNIFICANTLY more stealthy than Punisher.

Originally posted by inimalist


defensive position means a bit less than it seems you think it does. It is very easy to find locations, especially in cities, where you have sight on all places where a target could approach from.

They start 500 yards from eachother "fight" they're all gonna bolt to the nearest roof? No sale.

They're all gonna run to the nearest alley to put there backs against a wall and watch the alley mouth? No love, just No. Infact if the three of them decide to bolt upon the "go" then where ever they end up it'll leave them about 12 seconds to 'set up' a viable defense before Wolverine catches up with them.

Whats more viable in this setting with these characters..they down him from range? Or Wolverine eventually ends up closing the gap? :/

Originally posted by inimalist
look, I'm not trying to say the team even wins, though I think punisher gives Wolverine much more of a challenge than most people give him (but then again, bullets in comics and so forth).

The fact remains, urban warfare tends to favor those taking the defensive, unless the aggressor has some serious ability to siege (air support, RPG, explosives, chain guns). Even a store on the first floor of a building, which could be quickly comendeered by the team, would provide adequate defensibility such that Wolverine isn't going to get a "drop" on the team. Go to 8th floor or something like that? Sure, Wolverine might still be able to tank their damage, but unless we suddenly think Punisher has no insight on battle tactics, we can assume he probably finds a location where the team is at least tactically given the advantage.


Wolverine has sat in a deep pit with someone chain gunning him with .50 cal slugs for 24 hours a day for six weeks, and wasn't koed. Conventional weaponry is ineffective against Wolverine. Punisher's standard arsenal isn't nearly powerful enough to put Wolverine down for the count, it's barely sufficient enough to slow him down.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has infiltrated the Baxter Building twice under his own stealth abilities (Punisher need a stupid stealth suit with glowing balls), and Stark Tower.

Was one of those in EOTS were he recieved upgrades which helped him infiltrate it? You already starting to misinterpret feats i'm going to assume you're taking the other example out of context as well.


Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He has got the drop on Spider-man and Daredevil, and avoided Strike Force X (who all had the same level of enhanced senses as Wolverine as well as built in thermal / night vision) for six days in the rain forest. Wolverine is SIGNIFICANTLY more stealthy than Punisher.

Punisher also managed to evade Shang Chi, Daredevil, Black Widow and Dagger who were hunting him. Not only that Punisher was keeping tabs on them. No that doesn't prove hes significantly more stealthy. Not to mention the 100s of times Wolverines been jumped.


Yea this really helps your argument.

Punishers second fight with Wolverine
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1659/punisherwarjournal00712kv2.th.jpghttp://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4044/punisherwarjournal00713yq5.th.jpghttp://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5584/punisherwarjournal00714fj0.th.jpg

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has sat in a deep pit with someone chain gunning him with .50 cal slugs for 24 hours a day for six weeks, and wasn't koed.


Actually you don't know he wasn't koed ever.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Conventional weaponry is ineffective against Wolverine. Punisher's standard arsenal isn't nearly powerful enough to put Wolverine down for the count, it's barely sufficient enough to slow him down.

It depends where he gets hit. Hell Pun could probably make weapons and explosive and find ways to make them more powerful.

Originally posted by Deadline
Like Captain America and Black Widow?



You know something I don't think hes much better than Pun.





GMAFB break Wolverine has been sneaked up on loads of times. Just throwing this out.

Punisher sneaks up on and seems to hypnotise a jaguar
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/203/punsneaksuponjag.th.jpg
? what does capt or black widow have to do with anything? You trying to imply they located wolverine while he was trying to remain hidden from them? becuase if so I calling BS on you and like to see it.

as for the rest srank answered it nicely
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has infiltrated the Baxter Building twice under his own stealth abilities (Punisher need a stupid stealth suit with glowing balls), and Stark Tower. He has got the drop on Spider-man and Daredevil, and avoided Strike Force X (who all had the same level of enhanced senses as Wolverine as well as built in thermal / night vision) for six days in the rain forest. Wolverine is SIGNIFICANTLY more stealthy than Punisher.


also is the jaguar feat suppose to impress me? Wolverine for fun routinely sneaks up on animal like deer and pets them with out them even realizing he had gotten next to them.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
? what does capt or black widow have to do with anything? You trying to imply they located wolverine while he was trying to remain hidden from them? becuase if so I calling BS on you and like to see it.

as for the rest srank answered it nicely



also is the jaguar feat suppose to impress me? Wolverine for fun routinely sneaks up on animal like deer and pets them with out them even realizing he had gotten next to them.

facepalm

Good god. I don't think I can be bothered with this.

Originally posted by Juk3n
They start 500 yards from eachother "fight" they're all gonna bolt to the nearest roof? No sale.

They're all gonna run to the nearest alley to put there backs against a wall and watch the alley mouth? No love, just No. Infact if the three of them decide to bolt upon the "go" then where ever they end up it'll leave them about 12 seconds to 'set up' a viable defense before Wolverine catches up with them.

Whats more viable in this setting with these characters..they down him from range? Or Wolverine eventually ends up closing the gap? :/

12 seconds? I thought wolverine was being stealthy?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has sat in a deep pit with someone chain gunning him with .50 cal slugs for 24 hours a day for six weeks, and wasn't koed. Conventional weaponry is ineffective against Wolverine. Punisher's standard arsenal isn't nearly powerful enough to put Wolverine down for the count, it's barely sufficient enough to slow him down.

shit, I even read that too

Originally posted by Deadline
facepalm

Good god. I don't think I can be bothered with this.
nice instead of coming up with an argument you revert to your normal cop out answer of acting like were being ridiculous when in truth you simply dont have an argument.


You have fun now crom.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
? what does capt or black widow have to do with anything? You trying to imply they located wolverine while he was trying to remain hidden from them? becuase if so I calling BS on you and like to see it.


Read Wolverine Origins from 1-10 I think

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan

as for the rest srank answered it nicely

No he didn't for starters he didn't even remember one of the examples properly.

Think for yourself.




Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


also is the jaguar feat suppose to impress me? Wolverine for fun routinely sneaks up on animal like deer and pets them with out them even realizing he had gotten next to them.

Im just replying to your statement about Punisher having no stealth. Yea and Wolverine has never got the drop on Pun.

Originally posted by inimalist
12 seconds? I thought wolverine was being stealthy?





Not if they bolt straite off the bat..obviously dude..

Originally posted by Deadline
Was one of those in EOTS were he recieved upgrades which helped him infiltrate it? You already starting to misinterpret feats i'm going to assume you're taking the other example out of context as well.


Nope that is the third time he infiltrated the Baxter Building, but now that I think about it the other two examples might be the same time from two different perspectives / titles.

Originally posted by Deadline
Read Wolverine Origins from 1-10 I think

Yea and? Wolverine was not trying to remain hidden from either of them. Honestly your telling me to read wolverine comics are you fing kididng me?

He called black widow.......

If you mean Bucky, Bucky had a bunch of one sided prep, wolverine had no idea bucky was after him and Bucky had help, and the plot device....and still got put down........

Thanks though for not providing any context as usual.



Originally posted by Deadline

Im just replying to your BS statement about Punisher having no stealth. Yea and Wolverine has never got the drop on Pun.
I never once stated that Punisher had no stealth or even implied such. But thanks for being wrong as usual.



Wolverine never tried to get the drop on Punisher either .

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nope that is the third time he infiltrated the Baxter Building, but now that I think about it the other two examples might be the same time from two different perspectives / titles.
Also the upgrades he got were (Teleportaio) and he did not even use it, in fact if not mistaken when he did finally use it, it actaul trigger the alarm.......

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
interesting question. I not sure, I heard it currently adamatium, but the grade is unknown to me nor have I seen many feats from it.

Vol.3 was adamantium, current is Carbonadium and is said to be better then his vol.3 armor.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, no it didn't

David Mack is hard to interpret huh?
http://i.imgur.com/8ITWE.jpg

No your wrong your not reading the page right as you can see the panels twist into a spiral so you read it that way instead of whichever way amount to Wolverine not falling on the ground from a pressure point.

Oh and MK in Heroes for Hire #3 was wearing his cloth armor. Dumb, why go back to cloth? He only had a breast plate and shin/leg guards and those were undamaged

Originally posted by Juk3n
Not if they bolt straite off the bat..obviously dude..

so to you, Wolverine has no trouble tracking the team through a crowded city, but they have no ability whatsoever to track him?

Originally posted by Deadline
Read Wolverine Origins from 1-10 I think


The Government used Nuke to draw Wolverine out because no one could find him while he was in the wind. Cap "found" Wolverine because Wolverine purposely exposed himself to stop Nuke from tearing up Vietnam. Wolverine was the one who found Black Widow because he was told she was the one who had the C-Synth.

isnt punishers arsenal upgraded........i read a comic recently where he had ghosts phasing ability

You are so stupid, honestly can't imagin how you can be so dumb. It clearly reads right after she goes for the pressure point, that it only makes him mad..........

Originally posted by SasuOna
David Mack is hard to interpret huh?
http://i.imgur.com/8ITWE.jpg

No your wrong your not reading the page right as you can see the panels twist into a spiral so you read it that way instead of whichever way amount to Wolverine not falling on the ground from a pressure point.

I know how to read it. Now why don't you tell us which on of those panels you think shows Wolverine being knocked down... because none of them do.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The Government used Nuke to draw Wolverine out because no one could find him while he was in the wind. Cap "found" Wolverine because Wolverine purposely exposed himself to stop Nuke from tearing up Vietnam. Wolverine was the one who found Black Widow because he was told she was the one who had the C-Synth.
I thought he was revering to the bucky incident. This ones even worse, as usual from deadline aka alf aka crom.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
isnt punishers arsenal upgraded........i read a comic recently where he had ghosts phasing ability

It's back to pretty standard fare right now post Frankencastle in the In The Blood mini. The best thing he's used recently is exploding nunchucks.

Originally posted by inimalist
so to you, Wolverine has no trouble tracking the team through a crowded city, but they have no ability whatsoever to track him?

Wolverine is a better tracker than them what more do you want?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
You are so stupid, honestly can't imagin how you can be so dumb. It clearly reads right after she goes for the pressure point, that it only makes him mad..........

Yes and on the page it shows him on the ground so what are you talking about?

all of these people are skilled enough to give wolverine a fight on their own, daredevil takes on wolverine and while logan is distracted Punisher pumps him full of bullets or moon knight uses his gadgets (he did manage to put down the hulk didn't he?)

honestly anyone who thinks Wolverine wins is completely disregarding the history of all the characters one the team.

Just because wolverine needs one hit to take them down doesn't mean he'll get it, especially when two out of the three combatants are capable of hitting him from afar and daredevil can take him in H2H

Originally posted by SasuOna
Yes and on the page it shows him on the ground so what are you talking about?

He's never shown on the ground... what are you smoking...

Not at all, the next pannel clearly shows his face angrey. What you are reffering to was from an upper cut and even then he was never shown on the ground like your trying to pretend. Honestly your inability to grasp context is astounding.

in the best there is trials wolverine is having his hf tested to the limits

Wolverine face down in the snow. Top right corner

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Not at all, the next pannel clearly shows his face angrey. What you are reffering to was from an upper cut and even then he was never shown on the ground like your trying to pretend. Honestly your inability to grasp context is astounding.

because he got up obviously
this isn't the first time youv'e tried to misrepresent whats happened in a book involving Wolverine.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nope that is the third time he infiltrated the Baxter Building, but now that I think about it the other two examples might be the same time from two different perspectives / titles.


I doubt he didn't have tech.



Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yea and? Wolverine was not trying to remain hidden from either of them. Honestly your telling me to read wolverine comics are you fing kididng me?

Of course he was trying to remain hidden from them he was being hunted. Hell he only broke into White House its obvoulsy unlikely Cap is going to come after him.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan

He called black widow.......

You may be right.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


If you mean Bucky, Bucky had a bunch of one sided prep, wolverine had no idea bucky was after him and Bucky had help, and the plot device....and still got put down........

Thanks though for not providing any context as usual.



Irrelevant he knew he was being hunted and he knew he was going to be hunted by highly trained individuals he doesn't need to specifically know Bucky was after him.

Yes I have again only one mistake as far as I can see.


Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan



I never once stated that Punisher had no stealth or even implied such. But thanks for being wrong as usual.

Yes because implying he mostly does it to gangsters implies he has great stealth

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan


Wolverine never tried to get the drop on Punisher either .

Under Einnis yes, that don't change nothing.



Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Also the upgrades he got were (Teleportaio) and he did not even use it, in fact if not mistaken when he did finally use it, it actaul trigger the alarm.......

Wolverine specifically said that his new accessories reworked the alarm system in the baxter building.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Wolverine face down in the snow. Top right corner

...

...

...

There is no panel of Wolverine face down in the snow in the top right corner. The top right corner is close up of his eyes...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

...

...

There is no panel of Wolverine face down in the snow in the top right corner. The top right corner is close up of his eyes...

Whats next to that? and even if you aren't reading it linearly like your supposed to she doesn't mention it makes him angry til the panels start to tilt.
If you don't know how to read the David Mack issues I can post a guide if you like.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The Government used Nuke to draw Wolverine out because no one could find him while he was in the wind. Cap "found" Wolverine because Wolverine purposely exposed himself to stop Nuke from tearing up Vietnam. Wolverine was the one who found Black Widow because he was told she was the one who had the C-Synth.


Fair enough, Bucky found him fair and square though, theres no reason Cap couldn't have found him eventually.

Punisher has managed to evade Dr Doom while Doom was hunting him and actually lured Doom out, so I think Pun could come out on top

Originally posted by Trackz
all of these people are skilled enough to give wolverine a fight on their own, daredevil takes on wolverine and while logan is distracted Punisher pumps him full of bullets or moon knight uses his gadgets (he did manage to put down the hulk didn't he?)

honestly anyone who thinks Wolverine wins is completely disregarding the history of all the characters one the team.

Just because wolverine needs one hit to take them down doesn't mean he'll get it, especially when two out of the three combatants are capable of hitting him from afar and daredevil can take him in H2H

in addition to this, I'm curious of Wolverine's tracking abilities. In Wolverine Origins he couldn't make out Omega Red's scent when he was a couple of meters away from him because it was masked by the truck that was next to him. In Black Panther he couldn't track the scent of an invisible enemy in the same room because Iceman made the room too cold.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Whats next to that? and even if you aren't reading it linearly like your supposed to she doesn't mention it makes him angry til the panels start to tilt.
If you don't know how to read the David Mack issues I can post a guide if you like.

What's next to it? A land scape boarder with doodles. Where do you see Wolverine "face down in the snow," anywhere on that page? I know how to read the comics, I'm just not fabricating the existence of panels that aren't there.

She says "it" just makes him angry. "It", is of course a reference to the nerve cluster attacks. There is no panel showing him koed or injured by the attack, just a narrative statement that all it does is make him angry.

Originally posted by Deadline
Fair enough, Bucky found him fair and square though, theres no reason Cap couldn't have found him eventually.

Punisher has managed to evade Dr Doom while Doom was hunting him and actually lured Doom out, so I think Pun could come out on top

Actually Wolverine is the one who tracked Bucky down... Bucky was just ready for him.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
On this forum? Wolverine, of course!

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What's next to it? A land scape boarder with doodles. Where do you see Wolverine "face down in the snow," anywhere on that page? I know how to read the comics, I'm just not fabricating the existence of panels that aren't there.

She says "it" just makes him angry. "It", is of course a reference to the nerve cluster attacks. There is no panel showing him koed or injured by the attack, just a narrative statement that all it does is make him angry. I think what... saucyboy (?) is talking about is the one right under the top left panel. Although that seems to be a little while later and who knows what the **** is going on with that artwork?

At least, that's what I think person-who-you-are-talking-to is talking about.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

She says "it" just makes him angry. "It", is of course a reference to the nerve cluster attacks. There is no panel showing him koed or injured by the attack, just a narrative statement that all it does is make him angry.

And right after we read that she goes for the nerve centers the "doodles" you are seeing is Wolverine face down in the snow.

Wolverine is thunder
Echo is lightning
its not that hard to actually read the comic is it.

k, nevermind, I'm ****ing lost

a MK led offense is the best option here

Originally posted by SasuOna
And right after we read that she goes for the nerve centers the "doodles" you are seeing is Wolverine face down in the snow.

Wolverine is thunder
Echo is lightning
its not that hard to actually read the comic is it.

That's a bush...

http://i52.tinypic.com/1535vyf.jpg

Wolverine laying in snow?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
a MK led offense is the best option here

MK's fighting style is to take a punch to land a punch, that isn't something that will work out well against Wolverine. Bone claw Wolverine's already put him down pretty easily.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
MK's fighting style is to take a punch to land a punch, that isn't something that will work out well against Wolverine. Bone claw Wolverine's already put him down pretty easily.


it shouldnt really be an issue if he can keep him busy, and i dont see logan being able to get thru his armor

This is a bush...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
it shouldnt really be an issue if he can keep him busy, and i dont see logan being able to get thru his armor

Head shot.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Head shot.

would a CIS wolverine go for an obvious kill?

Originally posted by inimalist
would a CIS wolverine go for an obvious kill?

It was thinking of a punch, not a head shot stab. The only one he might be willing to kill is Punisher.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is a bush... That's a small piece of Wolverine's face. The right sideburn/ear part.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is a bush... Symphoricarpos Wolverina

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is a bush...

Yeah no point arguing with you.

I just hope you know thats the side of Wolverine's face and not a bush and that you can't make sense of whats happening on panel by removing it from the rest of the painting.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Yeah no point arguing with you.

I just hope you know thats the side of Wolverine's face and not a bush and that you can't make sense of whats happening on panel by removing it from the rest of the painting. So... where's Wolverine laying in the snow then if that's not it?

Cat curiousity has got me interested now.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
That's a small piece of Wolverine's face. The right sideburn/ear part.

It could be part of that screaming panel and that thing that looks like a rock could be his ear I guess, but the allignment doesn't really work 100%.

I think SasuOna thinks the spiky side burn / bush is animal/thunder Wolverine on the ground... but it's not

i dunno, there are tons of gadgets that both MK and Frank have that could pose a threat to logan ...he's been put down with less...i just dont see this as cut and dry as some are proposing

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It could be part of that screaming panel and that thing that looks like a rock could be his ear I guess, but the allignment doesn't really work 100%.

I think SasuOna thinks the spiky side burn / bush is animal/thunder Wolverine on the ground... but it's not That's what I took it as. I mean, his face also goes into the bottom panel as well.

I thought he/she was talking about the messy paint.
srug

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i dunno, there are tons of gadgets that both MK and Frank have that could pose a threat to logan ...he's been put down with less...i just dont see this as cut and dry as some are proposing

tbh, Wolverine's high end durability feats put his damage soak at well above what the team could dish with standard gear.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
That's what I took it as. I mean, his face also goes into the bottom panel as well.

I thought he/she was talking about the messy paint.
srug

Those few splatters? lol

Originally posted by inimalist
tbh, Wolverine's high end durability feats put his damage soak at well above what the team could dish with standard gear.

I'd say his median durability feats put his damage soak well above what the team could dish out. His high end feats are to ridiculous for this to even be considered a fight.

its them under the leaf fighting
http://i.imgur.com/PVznNh.jpg

I can definately see that the artist deserves to get shot.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
http://i52.tinypic.com/1535vyf.jpg

Wolverine laying in snow? ha. I was right.

Still don't get it.

Originally posted by SasuOna
its them under the leaf fighting
http://i.imgur.com/PVznNh.jpg

So you think to those splatters of paint is Wolverine face down in the snow?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
ha. I was right.

Still don't get it.

lol

greatest reaching I have ever seen

Someone that creative deserves to be right.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I can definately see that the artist deserves to get shot.

This what David Mack does when he isn't stealing panels from Adam Hughes and tracing Maxam covers.

guys, look, its abstract. obviously your minds are too narrowly focused by the expectations you read into normal comic art to fully appreciate the expressiveness of an alternative form of graphic communication and representation.

Look beyond the image, try to experience the piece not only as an active recipient of the art, but as one continuously responsible for its definition and, in fact, its true production.

The art doesn't have to represent these concrete ideas of how story flows from instant to instant, but can be interpretive, such that we can be involved in not just the reading of fiction, but the creation and first hand experience of constructing a world in which the story flows.

Look at the whole painting

Echo is lightning around Wolverine's arm which is where he got pressure pointed, they are still fighting at the corner the spot where Wolverine goes down is given away by the dark ink symbolizing Echo's foot on his arm.

If you read all of David Mack's issues from Daredevil this wouldn't be hard at all. You have to really look at the pictures.
http://i.imgur.com/5Gtct.jpg

seriously, what issue is this from, I can't get a high enough resolution image to say if this is just bad art, or "inappropriate-for-a-comic" art

Originally posted by SasuOna
Look at the whole painting

Echo is lightning around Wolverine's arm which is where he got pressure pointed, they are still fighting at the corner the spot where Wolverine goes down is given away by the dark ink symbolizing Echo's foot on his arm.

If you read all of David Mack's issues from Daredevil this wouldn't be hard at all. You have to really look at the pictures.
http://i.imgur.com/5Gtct.jpg

Where is Wolverine face down in the snow?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/daredevil54_pyrate_p09-10.jpg

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Actually Wolverine is the one who tracked Bucky down... Bucky was just ready for him.


Ok fair enough it seems pretty much that I got all those incidents wrong ( I actually skimmed over that arc couldn't be arsed to read it all), however it still doesn't prove hes better than Pun we still have the jungle encounter.

I think there maybe other example of Wolverine getting sneaked up on but I'm gonna refrain not doing so well today.

@Battlehammer: Is it Giant-Size Wolverine the time it's stated that he may break secondary adamantium?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Where is Wolverine face down in the snow?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/daredevil54_pyrate_p09-10.jpg

srank trying to force something with terrible ms paint skills to fit his own vision
Thats not how we analyze art srank.........

You already incorrectly labeled the side of wolverines face as a bush now your labeling Wolverine's arm as an ear. Do you know how anatomy works?
Also that "sideburn" is too far puffed out (no doubt due to your improv mspaint messing up the image).

What are the spots supposed to convey? I said Echo and Wolverine are fighting at the corner and your focusing on the spots above them...........
Not to mention you have the image flipped sideways whats going on? thats not how we read comics?

Originally posted by SasuOna
srank trying to force something with terrible ms paint skills to fit his own vision MS Paint is Photoshop for Pros sneer

Originally posted by SasuOna
srank trying to force something with terrible ms paint skills to fit his own vision
Thats not how we analyze art srank.........

You already incorrectly labeled the side of wolverines face as a bush now your labeling Wolverine's arm as an ear. Do you know how anatomy works?
Also that "sideburn" is too far puffed out (no doubt due to your improv mspaint messing up the image).



Dude I'm a third year illustration student with a fine arts background, I'd wager I know more about art, anatomy and the critique process than you could even imagine. Do you think it is just a massive coincidence that there is an inherent symmetry on both sides of his face? That isn't an arm, it's an ear, and you are insane.

I still dont get what logan's head with his face down is supposed to be in the picture. Sasu, can you do the same as Srank - whose interpetation actually makes sense - and circle what it is that you're refering to?

Originally posted by 753
I still dont get what would logan's head with his face down is supposed to be in the picture. Sasu, can you do the same as Srank - whose interpetation actually makes sense - and circle what it is that you're refering to?

indeed, the larger picture there is hardly interpretive, while "rough", it seems pretty clear

Originally posted by 753
I still dont get what logan's head with his face down is supposed to be in the picture. Sasu, can you do the same as Srank - whose interpetation actually makes sense - and circle what it is that you're refering to? That part that SRAnk has marked as ear on the left and the bit of hair under it is in Sasos opinion His head face first in the snow and teh ear is actually his arm.

He thinks the left ear is Wolverine's arm, the tapering side-burn is Wolverine's head/hair, and that plum of smoke / wind is a representation of Echo.

It's pretty clearly an ear and side burn though, there is even a counter part for both on the other side of his head.

wtf? sas, you're on drugs, son.

well, just as a comparison, lets grant that it is a head and that the whisp is Echo:

do we see the characters represented in such symbolic ways elsewhere in the comic? I mean, if echo is constantly being symbolized by white smoke on other pages, there is some credibility to Sasu is saying. Same with the black and white dots under the leaf, is there any reason to think the artist is expressing anything specifically with them?

Team wins.

In a random chance encounter I don't think the team has what it takes to stop him. In a city with his senses, stealth, and tactical abilities, this is going to play out similar to him on the hellicarrier til he gets to DD of course. Who he'll just overwhelm anyways.

In a random chance encounter I don't think Wolverine has what it takes to stop them. In a city with their combined senses, stealth, and tactical abilities, this is going to play out similar to DD/Punisher taking him down til he's cornered and goes all-out. Which they'll just overwhelm anyways.

By ignoring his powers, skills, experience and pretty much anything other than his lowest showings? HELL YEAH! thumbsup

By ignoring their powers, skills, experience, and numbers and pretty much anything other than their lowest showings? HELL YEAH! thumbsup

DD takes some wins by himself, together team stomps.

NOt unless Wolverine's jobbing.

Cyclops is stupid, he doesn't need Magneto and Namor to kill Wolverine, he just needs Punisher to shoot him and then have Daredevil punch him once maybe twice. What's Wolverine going to do? Heal from bullets a punches? LMAO Yeah right! He isn't that powerful!!! dur

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cyclops is stupid, he doesn't need Magneto and Namor to kill Wolverine, he just needs Punisher to shoot him and then have Daredevil punch him once maybe twice. What's Wolverine going to do? Heal from bullets a punches? LMAO Yeah right! He isn't that powerful!!! dur lol

I can see Punisher shooting him in the eye.

Originally posted by jinzin
NOt unless Wolverine's jobbing.


The first part or the second part? 131

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I can see Punisher shooting him in the eye.

Wolverine lucky not one at the Weapon X shoot at him or punching him while he was trying to esacpe. What would he have do then? lol!!11! Wolverine is one and punisher addnd Daredevil with Moonknight is more than one, okay>? What can he have done when they are with guns? Pluss i heard daredevil is skilled as like bruce lee so when he is going to punch Wolverine and is winning! How is he healing from bullets and the pucnhes from more mens? lmao!!1!!

Daredevil pinky pushed Wolverine's eye into his brain, and makes it bounce around like the bullets that KO'ed Wolverine in the past.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Daredevil pinky pushed Wolverine's eye into his brain, and makes it bounce around like the bullets that KO'ed Wolverine in the past. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine lucky not one at the Weapon X shoot at him or punching him while he was trying to esacpe. What would he have do then? lol!!11! Wolverine is one and punisher addnd Daredevil with Moonknight is more than one, okay>? What can he have done when they are with guns? Pluss i heard daredevil is skilled as like bruce lee so when he is going to punch Wolverine and is winning! How is he healing from bullets and the pucnhes from more mens? lmao!!1!!

Now THAT'S what I'M talkin about! thumbsup