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Both men are armed with their standard weapons. Fight to the death. Who wins?

Wonder if the Prince can use the rewind time stunt IC if it wasn't just a gameplay mechanic. If he can then this is probably spite since the Prince will be haxx0ring. But then again I don't know much about PoP.

Wish Ezio could kick his ass. Much better char n' all.

Thinking about it I have no idea how his sandtime powers can be controlled if hes being rewound with the rest of time. That and gameplay mechanics aside he probs couldn't use it if suffering a fatal wound.

Can't remember PoP but the Prince's physical abilities are above Ezios. In h2h the Prince, Ezio if he has the Apple.

The only game I could think of where the Prince isn't beyond normal human capabilities is (probably) the first one ever. In the others he's capable of some things that humans are not, be it through equipment or his own natural abilities. I base this solely on clips seen on various videos of the games.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Wonder if the Prince can use the rewind time stunt IC if it wasn't just a gameplay mechanic. If he can then this is probably spite since the Prince will be haxx0ring. But then again I don't know much about PoP.

Wish Ezio could kick his ass. Much better char n' all.

It isn't a gameplay mechanic. Rewinding Time is among the most basic of abilities the Dagger of Time has. He can pull if off even when he's suffered a death-blow, be it from an enemy, or from a bunch of spikes/traps etc.

That said, the TC should really specify which version of the Prince of Persia this is. There are three different versions.

Use the coolest one.

K. Sands of Time version it is. awesome

Sure its not a mechanic? Getting his head smashed apart would imo stop him from from rewinding time.

Disarming him should work in my opinion. Eizo would have to figure that out though that would take a while.

Smoke bombs + poison? Given the chance that is.

Instant kills would likely stop him from using it, but as for death-blows, nah. All he has to do is to rewind time to negate damage, which he can conceivably do if he can press the 'button' on the dagger.

After getting the dagger, there's a pit where spikes are present. If you fall onto the spikes, then rewind time, the Prince comments on the fact that he was able to avoid death thanks to the dagger.

IIRC the Prince has to press the stud on the dagger handle to rewind time.

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Yeah, 3.40 it rewinds after he presses it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Disarming him should work in my opinion. Eizo would have to figure that out though that would take a while.

Which is why he'd be dead or beaten before he figures it out.

Likely. Then again, the Prince does have a limit on the amount of sand right?

By rewinding time he'd let go of the button and stop

/looking to much into things/

Yeah but in the future that is his past he's already pressed the button.

Neph you blow my mind :V

If it helps Ezio has the range advantage if distance comes into play.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Likely. Then again, the Prince does have a limit on the amount of sand right?

Yep, about ten uses for the rewinding ability. Same for the slow-down as well I think. About 7-8 times more than enough.

Originally posted by BloodRain
By rewinding time he'd let go of the button and stop

/looking to much into things/

Time rewinds even if he has let go of the button. Maybe once the button is pressed, the duration of the reversal is dependent on him, and not the dagger.

/Stop doing that/

Yeah if he can do it that many times Ezio will lose eventually.

Originally posted by BloodRain
By rewinding time he'd let go of the button and stop

/looking to much into things/

Flawed conclusion. You can't say that, since there are other logical obstacles to pass through first. Initially, he commented on his power to rewind time the moment he learnt of it. This means he was conscious of the event,

Your logic dictate that he shouldn't be, as of your belief that pressing the button will result in a split second event. This dictate that the Prince must be in perfect synch with time, something the dagger appears to nullify in a sense of immunity towards its own powers, and immunity to immediate contact with it.

Because in the end, according to your logic, he would never have been able to carry it around in the first place. The moment he grab it, fall towards the spikes and rewind time, he'd end up in an infinite loop and condemn the universe to a halt in time.

Going back even further, the creators of the dagger, upon testing if it was functional, would've initiated the same loop and the dagger would've never been found, since it was never placed there to begin with. It never got past the workbench.

/Looking into things too much? You didn't even touch the surface of your "problem". All you did was fail, in an attempt to look too much into stuff. Don't feel bad, though, it's becoming more and more common that people fail miserably when trying to find holes in popular stuff/

Although to be fair, you did look too much into it. Unfortunately, too much into a problem that didn't exist in the first place. Since it didn't exist, anything (Whatever the amount) is too much. Since the dagger is there, your problem is not a problem. It's a delusion of problem.

So where using that prince

wonder how the other one would go from the 2008 game.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Flawed conclusion. You can't say that, since there are other logical obstacles to pass through first. Initially, he commented on his power to rewind time the moment he learnt of it. This means he was conscious of the event,

Your logic dictate that he shouldn't be, as of your belief that pressing the button will result in a split second event. This dictate that the Prince must be in perfect synch with time, something the dagger appears to nullify in a sense of immunity towards its own powers, and immunity to immediate contact with it.

Because in the end, according to your logic, he would never have been able to carry it around in the first place. The moment he grab it, fall towards the spikes and rewind time, he'd end up in an infinite loop and condemn the universe to a halt in time.

Going back even further, the creators of the dagger, upon testing if it was functional, would've initiated the same loop and the dagger would've never been found, since it was never placed there to begin with. It never got past the workbench.

/Looking into things too much? You didn't even touch the surface of your "problem". All you did was fail, in an attempt to look too much into stuff. Don't feel bad, though, it's becoming more and more common that people fail miserably when trying to find holes in popular stuff/

Although to be fair, you did look too much into it. Unfortunately, too much into a problem that didn't exist in the first place. Since it didn't exist, anything (Whatever the amount) is too much. Since the dagger is there, your problem is not a problem. It's a delusion of problem.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/cool_story_bro.gif

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Flawed conclusion. You can't say that, since there are other logical obstacles to pass through first. Initially, he commented on his power to rewind time the moment he learnt of it. This means he was conscious of the event,

Your logic dictate that he shouldn't be, as of your belief that pressing the button will result in a split second event. This dictate that the Prince must be in perfect synch with time, something the dagger appears to nullify in a sense of immunity towards its own powers, and immunity to immediate contact with it.

Because in the end, according to your logic, he would never have been able to carry it around in the first place. The moment he grab it, fall towards the spikes and rewind time, he'd end up in an infinite loop and condemn the universe to a halt in time.

Going back even further, the creators of the dagger, upon testing if it was functional, would've initiated the same loop and the dagger would've never been found, since it was never placed there to begin with. It never got past the workbench.

/Looking into things too much? You didn't even touch the surface of your "problem". All you did was fail, in an attempt to look too much into stuff. Don't feel bad, though, it's becoming more and more common that people fail miserably when trying to find holes in popular stuff/

Although to be fair, you did look too much into it. Unfortunately, too much into a problem that didn't exist in the first place. Since it didn't exist, anything (Whatever the amount) is too much. Since the dagger is there, your problem is not a problem. It's a delusion of problem.

*facepalm* Geezus, getting a mini wall of text from an off-topic non-serious comment? Alrighty then. Only thing to get from my post was how he could control the duration of the time powers if his physical body which needs to hold a button could not continue to do so as its being rewound. The digit pressing the button would be released, regardless if he's conscious during it as his body is still a slave to this time rewind. There are no logical theories here, just a very basic observation. In its own fiction yeah it would (as it does) work out fine, the question is asking around the gameplay aspect and more to an irl point of view.

If you do want to go and answer something then how can he hold a button to rewind to a select moment if he inveterately lets go of if when going back?

Oh dont worry Im not feeling bad, only slightly annoyed that people can take any and every question so seriously to such a pointless, unneeded level -.- And ''fail miserably when trying to find holes in popular stuff''?...what the hell are you on about, really? No ones trying to or wants find holes in the daggers power, this is pointing something out in a soon-to-be dead thread out of boredom. When did it become wrong to ask a question? I already negged myself by admitting to randomly looking into things, but y'know, thanks for making a case about it~ ^^

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'08 Prince wouldnt fair as well for lacking time powers and the skills of the SoT Prince. He's still more physically able then Ezio but now his gadgets would have a better chance of landing. Imo the smoke bomb, poison dart and crossbow/gun can be the thing to take him down if he's to fail at h2h.

And... just like that this thread has now been ruined and sucks.

Good job guys.

Even half-serious comments has an origin, a reason for being. That aside, you either stand by what you've said, or you retract it. Judging by your response, you stand by it. Therefore, this went from me giving my philosophical reflection on your post into a discussable matter, and for that I thank you. I welcome a good discussion anyday. So, onto the topic ...

The reason I deemed your conclusion flawed, is because it's fallacious to the core. The rule you dictate so indelicate stand on a paradoxical foundation, which is that you mix the concept of linear time with non-linear time to present your argument. By doing this, your logic make sense, while the truth of the matter is that it doesn't.

Don't blurt out the delusion that just because it's a piece of fiction, it means it doesn't make all the sense it could, and that it's excused from laws of physics and whatnow. That only apply in cases where physics is defied, not when it suit your argument.

Allow me to illuminate:
By suggesting that he by pressing the button and trigger the rewind of time, he would let go of the button is to suggest linear time. Since we know, in detail thanks to the creators and the game itself, that he manipulate time and not reality, Prince of Persia is not abiding to linear rules of time.

The fallacy in your recent argument originate from the idea that he would press this button, and as if by absolute, influenced by the powers he release, release the button again immediately. Ignoring the fact that this would introduce a loop, he acknowledge this event which directly neglect the idea of linear time. An acknowledgement you acknowledge.

Why doesn't linear work? Because doing something while time is frozen, would mean that time ain't linear. It'd mean that linear time ain't an absolute.
Because it ain't linear, you can pass through time as if it's a set of hallways with doors between rather than just a slim line. By being able to do this, you have the universal authority to create an alternative time, where you experienced the reversal of original time.

Since the prince experience this rewind, since he's conscious of his action, it's not linear.
Since it's not linear, there are no logical laws to apply to your conclusion.
Since it's not linear, there are multiple time.
Since there are multiple time, his dagger is not necessarily in perfect synch with the original time.
Since there are multiple time, our prince can rewind time through a stream where he didn't push that button, and by crossing the hallway after passing through said stream, end up in the original time again, where the event was registered as the button having been pressed. This introduce sense into both the fact that he can use it a set amount of times before no more, and also that he at all can use it.


Today's lesson about the Internet. You should NEVER write a comment unless you're ready to either stand by it, or retract it. I thank you for standing by it, since this is turning out to be a rather interesting discussion.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
And... just like that this thread has now been ruined and sucks.

Good job guys.

It's what I do.

Children, please. Hush with the long posts.

VmCVOhseaMA

At around 3:16 is the first time the Prince uses teh dagger.

Magic is kewl.

Edit: Wow....simple answers are not hard guys and gals. Time reverses itself as long as the sand falls. When the daggers button thingy is not pressed, the sand stops falling, and the sand already released would work it's magic and revert time to an extent. The wielder is obviously aware of the reversal of time and quasi-exists out of it with his mind.

Aren't children usualy the ones opposed long posts, rather than the ones making them? Also, why must something be easy, just because it can be? I'm not that lazy.

He has a rather casual attitude towards just having become the master of time.

And the edit you made confirm the theory that the Prince of Persia verse time is non-linear. It's either that, or the dagger is a lie, and is actually manipulating reality rather than time. I'd bet my sheeps on non-linear time, though.

Long posts are fine if they have tons of evidence or are addressing many points. These posts are neither. And simplicity often leads to acceptable answers.

I know right?

I want your sheeps. And that said, time travel itself often leads to non-linearity. Doesn't mean both of you are wrong.

Y'know this post could have ended it for being an answer to the question :3 Id retract if I had a solid idea, but my question remains as a neutral stance. Sorry to disappoint but the only origin is me reading up on paradoxes then finding this thread, nor am I actually making an argument for or against. But seeing as you put in the effort I may as well respond with ideas.

See all of that makes sense if he were to simply reverse time while being completely unaffected by it like the common time reverse powers. But because his physical body is reversed accordingly any act he did with it would be as if it never happened, the continued loop negated as he remains conscious so to stop himself from pressing the button after the first instance.
As time rewinds he has no control over his body, yet his thumb would somehow go around this to continue to hold it. And he still has to release his thumb if he wants to stop it. The act of having full control of his thumb while time fully controls his body gets some doubt.

For this move the only thing unaffected is his consciousness, not his body. Thats the whole point of the move. Given that this is the only 'rule' to this rewind move the Prince being able to move a digit breaks its own rule. The paradox i see; 1. If he can physically move his thumb then his body by extension wouldn't be rewound, reverse casualties or anything done by time. He'd just stand there or walk about as time goes back, but thats not what the move does. 2. If time fully does control his body throughout the move (reversing movement/damage/death/etc, its main purpose] then he would only go back to the moment before pressing down. He couldn't hold the button or release it when when he choses if time is holding him. Both points fall back on its own rule and purpose.
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>,> Sorry Blax, then again the Prince already won the thread so it was about done.
'08 Prince lacks the skills of his SoT counterpart and has nothing special to him without the assistance of Elika. If Ezio can take on a dozen top soldiers without concern I dont think one above normal acrobatic person would be a large problem. The well timed crossbow bolt would take out either Prince.

Literally the very first thing the game does is establish that this is the case with the Prince's 'I have seen the face of time' speech.



Actually the '08 Prince is physically superior to the SOT one and imo more technically skilled as well. He'd beat Ezio easily in a fight no problem.

i always saw the prince as a more acrobatic and agile while ezio is stronger and overall more durable its like daredevil vs punisher but i think the prince will win this

Originally posted by BloodRain
See all of that makes sense if he were to simply reverse time while being completely unaffected by it like the common time reverse powers. But because his physical body is reversed accordingly any act he did with it would be as if it never happened, the continued loop negated as he remains conscious so to stop himself from pressing the button after the first instance.
As time rewinds he has no control over his body, yet his thumb would somehow go around this to continue to hold it. And he still has to release his thumb if he wants to stop it. The act of having full control of his thumb while time fully controls his body gets some doubt.

For this move the only thing unaffected is his consciousness, not his body. Thats the whole point of the move. Given that this is the only 'rule' to this rewind move the Prince being able to move a digit breaks its own rule. The paradox i see; 1. If he can physically move his thumb then his body by extension wouldn't be rewound, reverse casualties or anything done by time. He'd just stand there or walk about as time goes back, but thats not what the move does. 2. If time fully does control his body throughout the move (reversing movement/damage/death/etc, its main purpose] then he would only go back to the moment before pressing down. He couldn't hold the button or release it when when he choses if time is holding him. Both points fall back on its own rule and purpose.
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>,> Sorry Blax, then again the Prince already won the thread so it was about done.
'08 Prince lacks the skills of his SoT counterpart and has nothing special to him without the assistance of Elika. If Ezio can take on a dozen top soldiers without concern I dont think one above normal acrobatic person would be a large problem. The well timed crossbow bolt would take out either Prince.

You seem to be under the impression that he has to keep pressing down the button in order to reverse time, when it really only takes one press.
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2:43

Advance it frame-by-frame if you have to, because we see the Prince press the button, and then lift his finger, after which the Time Reversal begins.

IMO, the Dagger is likely immune to the reversal, and grants a certain degree of immunity to the Wielder as well. This is why it is able to reverse time to a point in time that is prior to the activation of the reversal, along with keeping the user conscious of the reversal and the reason for the reversal; thereby allowing the user to basically rewrite the future.

Also, the dagger doesn't necessarily subscribe to traditional views on Time manipulation. Originally, the Dagger was likely created after the Sands of Time were created. This is because the Dagger is what releases the Sands from the Hourglass, which is another item that must have been created after the creation of the Sands of Time (as these items would have no use without the SoT).
Yet in the current timeline of the saga (Two Thrones), the Dagger existed before the Sands of Time were created. In fact, the Dagger is 'used' as a means to create the Sands of Time in Two Thrones.

Ahh so he does, well thats a clear answer to the question knowing its all controlled by his conscious. Btw if he 'did' have to hold the button would you see a problem with it or not?

If in the Two Thrones it says that the Dagger made the Sands doesn't that answer which of them came first? I get what youre saying but not how it could of been made afterwards if stated to be before.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Ahh so he does, well thats a clear answer to the question knowing its all controlled by his conscious.
Yep, which is why I had originally stated this:
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Time rewinds even if he has let go of the button. Maybe once the button is pressed, the duration of the reversal is dependent on him, and not the dagger. in response to this:
Originally posted by BloodRain
By rewinding time he'd let go of the button and stop




Originally posted by BloodRain
Btw if he 'did' have to hold the button would you see a problem with it or not?

Based on what happens when the Time-Reversal activates (i.e. everything plays out in reverse), if he did have to hold the button down, then the time-reversal would stop right when it started, as the reversal's duration is now dependent on the wielder's physical actions. Since those get reversed as well, it'd be logically impossible for the reversal to even activate in the first place... assuming of course, that Time is linear in PoP, which it isn't based on the opening of his narration to Farah (the intro)

Originally posted by BloodRain
If in the Two Thrones it says that the Dagger made the Sands doesn't that answer which of them came first? I get what youre saying but not how it could of been made afterwards if stated to be before.


The Dagger did not really make the Sands of Time. The Dagger was used to kill Kaileena, who then became the Sands of Time, i.e. her death is the birth of the Sands.
In Warrior Within, we learn that it was the Prince who originally created the Sands of Time on the Island of Time, as it was he who killed Kaileena in the original timeline. The Dagger's origin is on the same Island, but it isn't mentioned or seen during this period, so I assume that it was created after the Sands were, as a way to open and close the Hourglass to contain the Sands of Time.
That, and the fact that the Dagger would likely need the Sands of Time to exist, in order to have its own Time powers.