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who wins

Zoom can hurt DS. But......what's stopping Darkseid from depowering him?

zoom can stretch time without limit, in theory he can give darkseid a million punches under a second before darkseid OE him. and consider he hits harder than superman darkseid's in trouble.
does darkseid have time manipulation power? even if he does, it's very iffy to say he can use it before zoom ko him.
if this fight happens in comics I think darkseid could win, but in theory zoom can kill any characters he can hurt.

Originally posted by MrMind
does darkseid have time manipulation power?

Yes.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes.
can he use it before zoom ko him?

Hell, just look at Final Crisis. FC started with DS firing a radion bullet back in time.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hell, just look at Final Crisis. FC started with DS firing a radion bullet back in time.
ah I remember that. but darkseid needs to think "about" using time manipulation to use it.

Originally posted by MrMind
ah I remember that. but darkseid needs to think "about" using time manipulation to use it.
Darksied has demonstrated pico second thought speeds.
On panel.

That is 1 trillionth of a second

No BS, looks like Zoom. Too broken.

with CIS on darkseid wins
CIS off this is iffy

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Darksied has demonstrated pico second thought speeds.
On panel.

That is 1 trillionth of a second
but zoom's faster than that

Originally posted by MrMind
with CIS on darkseid wins
CIS off this is iffy

CIS off doesn't help Zoom at all. Not when his opponent can perceive alternate realities, timelines, and has temporal perception.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Darksied has demonstrated pico second thought speeds.
On panel.

That is 1 trillionth of a second Doesn't count. Cause, yknow, Batman's outmaneuevered him before. Take away a few of Darkseid's powers and he's Batman level.

Am i doing it right? ermmhappy

Originally posted by MrMind
with CIS on darkseid wins
CIS off this is iffy Darkseid isn't a hero so there would be no need to "strengthen" him.

In a comic, Darkseid chances look better than they do here.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Darkseid isn't a hero so there would be no need to "strengthen" him.

In a comic, Darkseid chances look better than they do here.
I mean CIS off for zoom. because in every comics zoom in he doesn't want to kill the heroes. he just want to make heroes better.
so whether in the fight with WW or flashes, he doesn't want to kill them.

Originally posted by MrMind
I mean CIS off for zoom. because in every comics zoom in he doesn't want to kill the heroes. he just want to make heroes better.
so whether in the fight with WW or flashes, he doesn't want to kill them. I know. Darkseid is definitely not heroic.

Unless I missed something.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I know. Darkseid is definitely not heroic.

Unless I missed something.
sorry I misunderstood your post, I thought you were thinking CIS off for darkseid.

Darkseid isn't a speedster...gtsooh aka... (get that sh** out of here) but he is winning this though.

There is no reason for Darkseid's CIS to interfere in a straight fight. He doesn't deal with this kind of thing himself usually, but he has no qualms about going all out against anyone who isn't Superman, barring one of his plans.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Darksied has demonstrated pico second thought speeds.
On panel.

That is 1 trillionth of a second I believe he's only demonstrated microsecond reaction time, in Cosmic Odyssey, which is one millionth of a second.

But maybe you're thinking of a different instance?

Originally posted by carver9
Darkseid isn't a speedster...gtsooh aka... (get that sh** out of here)
nobody said he is

So we are back to a Zoom phase. Well time to bump a great thread.

Zoom is just faaaaar too broken on about 99% of threads. Flash can't react to him normally, and Supes can't.... which means...

Darkseid can. And he's even more broken than Zoom is.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Darkseid can. And he's even more broken than Zoom is. Not on forum fights.

Darkseid is much faster than Superman?

Picoseconds are childs play to Flash, and even more so to Zoom. He can do it in his sleep.

The irony in this thread would have been delicious had it ripened. ermm

Originally posted by -K-M-


just to point out superman is no wear near a good comparison to flash let alone zoom...so darkside being faster then superman means nothing when speaking of Zoom

Flash can't react to Zoom and Superman was a statue when they were fighting.

just to point out, superman is in no good comparison compare to wally (who can't even see zoom)
he's still faster than kid flash and jay though.

unless Zoom stops to monologue he is beating the snot out of DS. he would hit him so hard DS flies into the Source wall.

ane lets not pretend and use the abstract DS in defense for average DS

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
just to point out superman is no wear near a good comparison to flash let alone zoom...so darkside being faster then superman means nothing when speaking of Zoom

Ok? Why are you telling me this?

I think KM is just posting feats for reference.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ok? Why are you telling me this?

i saw your quoted post above with feats of darkside showing how fast he is.....with examples of him being faster then superman.....and i was just pointing out that showing the feats of darkside being that fast really has no impact on the topic at hand....it's kind of like saying a cheetah is faster then a gazelle when your talking about a Lamborghini

i could have just misunderstood your point....if so sorry!

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Not when his opponent can perceive alternate realities, timelines, and has temporal perception.
that's impressive. but can I see evidence that prove what you just said?

darkseid's speed feats didn't help him against superman

zoom does dmg but darkseid will eventually win. If darky loses this fight in a comic it will just further his reputation as what he should be and what thanos is already.

This isn't a comic. Flash is a beast not holding back, and Zoom is nigh unstoppable.

Zoom wins.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This isn't a comic. Flash is a beast not holding back, and Zoom is nigh unstoppable.

don't worry lots of people seem to ignore that fact lol

I'm not sure if Darkseid has any reasonable means to defend himself against Zoom if Zoom decided not to go the "make him betterrrrrr" route and just wail on him?

ZA WARUDO! TOKI O TOMARE! durhulk

WRYYYYYYY!


http://i52.tinypic.com/2upsu54.gif

Originally posted by MrMind
zoom can stretch time without limit, in theory he can give darkseid a million punches under a second before darkseid OE him. and consider he hits harder than superman darkseid's in trouble.
does darkseid have time manipulation power? even if he does, it's very iffy to say he can use it before zoom ko him.
if this fight happens in comics I think darkseid could win, but in theory zoom can kill any characters he can hurt.

I think DS might have his number since Zoom's "speed" is based on time manipulation around his own space i.e. slowing down the effects of time on his body.

DS can manipulate relative time so he can probably even manipulate the effects of time on Zoom's body. DS has manipulated time around people in the past, leaving alone time jumping, he can increase the speed of time or bend time around a person.

Hasn't stopped Zoom. And if that's the case why does Superman give him such a hard time so frequently? I understand he is Superman, but Superman has had no problems with speed on Darkseid.

Superman's speed is purely physical, Zoom's "speed" is actually time manipulation on his own body.

DS can bend time around a person to increase or decrease the speed of time on a body. If he perceived Zoom's time manip, he will screw with it.

How would he screw with it, specifically?

Zoom has his own personal timeline.

And Superman surely wouldn't be a trouble. If he could wreck Zoom that easy.

He can bend relative time, while Zoom can only manipulate time on his own body, he can't touch relative time. If DS perceives Zoom's exploitation of his time manipulation powers he can slow down time around Zoom, however many feet of space that is. Negating Zoom's exploit and his "speed" advantage through that exploit.

He's already shown he can loop, bend, increase the speed or reduce the speed of time around a single target or even a whole planet. Wouldn't be difficult to bend relative time around the battlefield.

Zoom wins.

Originally posted by Allankles
He can bend relative time, while Zoom can only manipulate time on his own body, he can't touch relative time. If DS perceives Zoom's exploitation of his time manipulation powers he can slow down time around Zoom, however many feet of space that is. Negating Zoom's exploit and his "speed" advantage through that exploit.

He's already shown he can loop, bend, increase the speed or reduce the speed of time around a single target or even a whole planet. Wouldn't be difficult to bend relative time around the battlefield. So DS can manipulate the timeline he exists in.

I still don't see how he manipulates one he does not.

He wouldn't do it in the time it takes Zoom to nail him.

Zoom.

I think PC DS would win though.

Lol, that was a different beast. You'd have more weight there.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And Superman surely wouldn't be a trouble. If he could wreck Zoom that easy.

Zoom isn't even fast in the same way Flash or Superman are, he's manipulating time. All DS would need to do, knowing the target, is screw with his time manipulation. DS himself does have time manipulation capabilities. DS can sense and perceive that kind of manipulation and won't ignore it, it's Zoom's one and only trump card.

As far as Supes being a problem that's the comic books, no character uses all their abilities at once in any story.

A weak argument to use, since Zoom in his losses to Wonder woman and the Flash rogues has the same problem. If we go strictly by who they've beat and how, then Zoom wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm just mentioning the fact that Zoom is a guy with limited time manip, fighting a guy who has shown that he can manip time on a grand scale.

Originally posted by Mindset
So DS can manipulate the timeline he exists in.

I still don't see how he manipulates one he does not. What am I missing here?

Zoom wins by default. Darkseid wears a skirt. His the equivalent of a woman at this point.

For all intents and purposes Zoom *is* fast.

Speed is only Distance/time

If he shortens the time to an extreme amount and his distance is the same, he is by all intents and purposes fast.

Originally posted by Mindset
So DS can manipulate the timeline he exists in.

I still don't see how he manipulates one he does not.

Time line is the wrong term to use. Zoom can't manipulate his timeline, he manipulates time relative to his own space, there's a difference. A timeline involves an entire host of futures, possible futures etc that are beyond his capacity to manipulate, basically it makes it sound like he can do more than he actually does.

And yes DS can bend space time on his own body. The issue here isn't about what happens in specific fights, because if we go by that Zoom loses.

We go by what the character can do, we offer Zoom that benefit in the forums, we should do the same for DS. Time manipulation isn't the way to beat DS, especially when you're not even capable of manipulating relative time. He's shown the ability to not only perceive time distortion but to distort time himself for his own sake.

Actually Zoom has gone through time and manipulated things, it was a large part of his story arc.

Originally posted by Allankles
Time line is the wrong term to use. Zoom can't manipulate his timeline, he manipulates time relative to his own space, there's a difference. A timeline involves an entire host of futures, possible futures etc that are beyond his capacity to manipulate, basically it makes it sound like he can do more than he actually does.

And yes DS can bend space time on his own body. The issue here isn't about what happens in specific fights, because if we go by that Zoom loses.

We go by what the character can do, we offer Zoom that benefit in the forums, we should do the same for DS. Time manipulation isn't the way to beat DS, especially when you're not even capable of manipulating relative time. He's shown the ability to not only perceive time distortion but to distort time himself for his own sake. I could be mistaken, but I recall them explaining that he exists outside of "our" time, which would mean he is in a different timeline.

Do you have the scan where his powers are explained?

I didn't deny that he can go through time...

Originally posted by Mindset
I could be mistaken, but I recall them explaining that he exists outside of "our" time, which would mean he is in a different timeline.

Do you have the scan where his powers are explained?

I don't have a scan of this, though I have a similar recollection, but that doesn't describe how his powers actively work, it seems to explain his relationship with time. Since being in another "timeline" doesn't stop him from interacting normally with people in the regular ol' timeline.

EDIT: I'm off to watch boxing, I'll continue this tomorrow probably.

Originally posted by Allankles
I think DS might have his number since Zoom's "speed" is based on time manipulation around his own space i.e. slowing down the effects of time on his body.

DS can manipulate relative time so he can probably even manipulate the effects of time on Zoom's body. DS has manipulated time around people in the past, leaving alone time jumping, he can increase the speed of time or bend time around a person.

i find your theory very interesting. Has darkside ever manipulated the time around a person who already has control over the time around him/her self ever before?

Well, I never thought the description made much sense, but that's what we were given. srug

Originally posted by Allankles
I think DS might have his number since Zoom's "speed" is based on time manipulation around his own space i.e. slowing down the effects of time on his body.

DS can manipulate relative time so he can probably even manipulate the effects of time on Zoom's body. DS has manipulated time around people in the past, leaving alone time jumping, he can increase the speed of time or bend time around a person.
the thing is, if zoom going all out with CIS off.
he could kill darkseid before darkseid even know what's going on. DS needs to think about manipulate time to do it. what if zoom kills darkseid in picosecond or even less? DS doesn't even have the time to think
zoom could manipulate his time frame till time's stand still.

An explanation of Zoom's powers

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/420/zoom1g.th.jpg http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6195/zoom2n.th.jpg

---

-Zoom-
"My personal timeline is removed from this one. I control how fast or slow I move along the timeline":

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_zoom_time.jpg

DS pwns.

this one is impressive. after wally's massive speed steal, he finally sees zoom, at that point they are so fast that time nearly stops, in other words they are standing still in time.
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9962/zoomstopstime.jpg

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
i find your theory very interesting. Has darkside ever manipulated the time around a person who already has control over the time around him/her self ever before? He depowered Secret, he's sent his Omega Effect to retrieve Kanto the moment Kanto-13 died by Kanto's hand. Darkseid has also perceived the timeline changes wrought in S/B by the LSH villains, he's sent Validus back in time, and depowered Validus, turning him back into a child. How did he know how to do this? Simple. Temporal perception. How about his assasinating Orion with the temporal radion bullet in FC?

Originally posted by Badabing
DS gets pwnt. biscuits

Personally, I am of the opinion that Darkseid COULD affect Zoom's time bubble. Omega powers aside, he was able to casually pluck Professor Stein from of the Firestorm Matrix, after all -- that alone demonstrates his cross-temporal/dimensional prowess.

However, I don't think he'd ever get the chance to muck with Zoom's time bubble. Thousands of Superman-level punches to the face delivered immediately as the battle begins, would surely take a toll on the big fella.

Sounds fair. That's how it is with Zoom, you could have a one kill shot but if you can't use it in time...

Originally posted by Galan007
Personally, I am of the opinion that Darkseid COULD affect Zoom's time bubble. Omega powers aside, he was able to casually pluck Professor Stein from of the Firestorm Matrix, after all -- that alone demonstrates his cross-temporal/dimensional prowess.

However, I don't think he'd ever get the chance to muck with Zoom's time bubble. Thousands of Superman-level punches to the face delivered immediately as the battle begins, would surely take a toll on the big fella.

fanboy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Personally, I am of the opinion that Darkseid COULD affect Zoom's time bubble. Omega powers aside, he was able to casually pluck Professor Stein from of the Firestorm Matrix, after all -- that alone demonstrates his cross-temporal/dimensional prowess.

However, I don't think he'd ever get the chance to muck with Zoom's time bubble. Thousands of Superman-level punches to the face delivered immediately as the battle begins, would surely take a toll on the big fella.

Why not fire an OE into the past and use it on him as the battle begins? See, Zoom's problem is he has stop Darkseid from taking a single action, whereas Darkseid only has to use his powers once to win this.

And Darkseid knows who Zoom is for a fact. We have a very reliable source for this. Libra. Libra knew who he was.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He depowered Secret, he's sent his Omega Effect to retrieve Kanto the moment Kanto-13 died by Kanto's hand. Darkseid has also perceived the timeline changes wrought in S/B by the LSH villains, he's sent Validus back in time, and depowered Validus, turning him back into a child. How did he know how to do this? Simple. Temporal perception. How about his assasinating Orion with the temporal radion bullet in FC?

my question was more based around how zoom basically has a bubble around him...or like an aura that allows him to control the time around him therefore being unaffected by most of the laws of relativity. he can move at tremendous speeds as an effect of this....my question didn't address weather darkside could time travel but affect the time around someone(like zoom) that can already control the time around himself.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Why not fire an OE into the past and use it on him as the battle begins? See, Zoom's problem is he has stop Darkseid from taking a single action, whereas Darkseid only has to use his powers once to win this.

And Darkseid knows who Zoom is for a fact. We have a very reliable source for this. Libra. Libra knew who he was.
Why doesn't Zoom travel back in time before Darkseid fires the Omega Beams and punch him in the face until he calls quarter?

Gtfo with this silly shit.

Edit: What the f*ck is wrong with my computer?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why doesn't Zoom travel back in time before Darkseid fires the Omega Beams and punch him in the face until he calls quarter?

Gtfo with this silly shit.

Zoom does not have time travel like that. And Darkseid is very precise with the OE. 2nd, He knows who he is fighting, of course he's going to go for the finish right off. He's got tons of options. Zoom has stop DS before DS can finish a single thought or action. That's the level he needs to stop Darkseid.

Edit: And he has used the OE like that before. Final Crisis, jackass.

zoom doesn't go back time so time travel won't work. but he doesn't need that to win anyway

Originally posted by MrMind
zoom doesn't go back time so time travel won't work. but he doesn't need that to win anyway He has before...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Why not fire an OE into the past and use it on him as the battle begins? See, Zoom's problem is he has stop Darkseid from taking a single action, whereas Darkseid only has to use his powers once to win this. Which would still require Darkseid to react fast enough to use said powers against Zoom, before he was blitzed to hell... Hard to imagine that happening.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Zoom does not have time travel like that. And Darkseid is very precise with the OE. 2nd, He knows who he is fighting, of course he's going to go for the finish right off. He's got tons of options. Zoom has stop DS before DS can finish a single thought or action. That's the level he needs to stop Darkseid.

Edit: And he has used the OE like that before. Final Crisis, jackass.


haha jeeze calm down a bit it's a simple comic debate....anyways fine assuming darkside would have more control over zoom's powers then zoom himself then why would zoom give darkside the chance....why doesn't zoom simply slow time to almost a stand still and give darkside all of his best shots all rolled into one?

Galan: You consider Zoom that fast? That he can hit DS before DS has a single thought?

Do you believe Zoom could do this to Zeus or Odin?

The jackass was for rage's GTFO.

^Haha, please.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Zoom does not have time travel like that. And Darkseid is very precise with the OE. 2nd, He knows who he is fighting, of course he's going to go for the finish right off. He's got tons of options. Zoom has stop DS before DS can finish a single thought or action. That's the level he needs to stop Darkseid.

Edit: And he has used the OE like that before. Final Crisis, jackass.

Is this Eobard or Hunter? If it's not Eobard, then Hunter simply beats him to death before Darkseid can perform any action. It wouldn't be difficult.

I know exactly what happened in Final Crisis, but it doesn't change how stupid it is of you to argue it as a tactic here. Next we'll have people claiming Surfer sends his board back in time to kill an opponent and shit. Hopefully this silliness isn't contagious. This is a forum battle. Not a I-control-the-character battle.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He has before...
oh yeah I remember now, only once, that writer doesn't understand zoom's power

Black Zero: Galan already conceded that DS has the ability to depower Zoom, and as for the 2nd part; He can do that?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Is this Eobard or Hunter? If it's not Eobard, then Hunter simply beats him to death before Darkseid can perform any action. It would be pretty simple.

I know exactly what happened in Final Crisis, but it doesn't change how stupid it is of you to argue it as a tactic here. Next we'll have people claiming Surfer sends his board back in time to kill an opponent and shit. Hopefully this silliness isn't contagious.

it's hunter

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Zoom does not have time travel like that. And Darkseid is very precise with the OE. 2nd, He knows who he is fighting, of course he's going to go for the finish right off. He's got tons of options. Zoom has stop DS before DS can finish a single thought or action. That's the level he needs to stop Darkseid.

Edit: And he has used the OE like that before. Final Crisis, jackass. Originally posted by MrMind
zoom doesn't go back time so time travel won't work. but he doesn't need that to win anyway Actually, he can and has gone back in time.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Zoom does not have time travel like that. Here's Zoom chilling in 410AD:
http://img469.imageshack.us/i/06ck2.jpg/
http://img444.imageshack.us/i/07qg5.jpg/

---

-Zoom-
"Feel the present pass us by, Thaddeus? Like standing on a rolling ball. You can control it":

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8133/zoom1ol9.th.jpg

Yup. Darkseid's boned.

like I said before
in theory, only 4 kinds of people can beat zoom
1. reality warpers
2. characters that zoom can't hurt
3. characters that can instantly reform themselves
4. toon force
however if we consider CIS, there could be more people that can beat zoom.
but with zoom's CIS off, I don't even see skyfather level can beat zoom. even characters like odin

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Galan: You consider Zoom that fast? That he can hit DS before DS has a single thought? Absolutely.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Black Zero: Galan already conceded that DS has the ability to depower Zoom, and as for the 2nd part; He can do that?

ok and that's the only question i was asking...not for debating reason but because i was wondering....and yes...zooms only real power is to control time....basically since he's a step outside of time he can wactually slow time and freeze it but not reverse it. his aura/bubble protects him from being affected(otherwise it would be like wally moving at light speed but not being able to process at the same speed. so in comics he looks fast because that's what it would seem like but he is actually moving normally and controlling the time around himself....if we were reading the book through zooms eyes then everyone else would seem to be standing still while hes moving normally....kind of the way clark moves in smallville...in that slow mo effects...the flash can only keep up because he's faster then time

Originally posted by Mindset
Actually, he can and has gone back in time.
that writer doesn't understand zoom's power. he shouldn't be able to.

Zoom has done it multiple times. Weren't Thanos supporters making the argument of removing his bubble? Even if it worked, he would have to contend with someone who moves as fast as they want, literally. He has no limits with his speed.

Originally posted by MrMind
like I said before
in theory, only 4 kinds of people can beat zoom
1. reality warpers
2. characters that zoom can't hurt
3. characters that can instantly reform themselves
4. toon force
however if we consider CIS, there could be more people that can beat zoom.
but with zoom's CIS off, I don't even see skyfather level can beat zoom. even characters like odin Basically.

When you get to characters like these, you literally have to be way out of their league to win. At this point it is either they stomp you or you stomp them, there is no even split.

Flash is borderline this too with CIS off.

Originally posted by MrMind
that writer doesn't understand zoom's power. he shouldn't be able to.
Because you say he can't?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Because you say he can't?
no because time travel is not zoom's power

And yet it is.

Originally posted by MrMind
no because time travel is not zoom's power
Except it is.

Look, I like DS a lot more than I like Zoom, but there's no point in trying to deny Zoom his powerset to give DS the nod here.

It's too easy to say Zoom trounces Thanos but then turn around and say Darkseid wins because you like him more.

Lol.

Originally posted by MrMind
that writer doesn't understand zoom's power. he shouldn't be able to. Wrong. Zoom's entire powerset is based around him being contained within his own bubble of time, which is divergent from the mainstream timeline. As his powers progressed, he simply learned to slide that time bubble forward and backward along the timeline -- allowing him to time travel.

"Like standing on a rolling ball. You can CONTROL it."

Originally posted by Galan007
Wrong. Zoom's entire powerset is based around him being contained within his own bubble of time, divergent from the mainstream timeline. As his powers progressed, he simply learned to slide his time bubble forward and backward along the timeline -- allowing him to time travel.

i'll double check my collection but im pretty sure somewhere it's stated he can't move backwards.

Originally posted by Galan007
Here's Zoom chilling in 410AD:
http://img469.imageshack.us/i/06ck2.jpg/
http://img444.imageshack.us/i/07qg5.jpg/

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
i'll double check my collection but im pretty sure somewhere it's stated he can't move backwards. You mean Barry's explanation?

Originally posted by Galan007


im not denying it im just saying im pretty sure it was stated but i could be wrong...i'll check and let everyone know tomorrow...im exhausted.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You mean Barry's explanation?
yes

Awesome avatar and sig man.

http://img638.imageshack.us/f/zoom2n.jpg/


You mean this?

Originally posted by Galan007
Wrong. Zoom's entire powerset is based around him being contained within his own bubble of time, which is divergent from the mainstream timeline. As his powers progressed, he simply learned to slide that time bubble forward and backward along the timeline -- allowing him to time travel.

"Like standing on a rolling ball. You can CONTROL it."
yes I remember zoom travel back time once. I forgot which issue, but I think it's poorly written. zoom manipulate time in his own time frame, he can stretch it to infinity, but he can't reverse time.

Originally posted by MrMind
yes I remember zoom travel back time once. I forgot which issue, but I think it's poorly written. zoom manipulate time in his own time frame, he can stretch it to infinity, but he can't reverse time. That *was* Barry's theory though.

Zoom did gain the ability to go through things as well, so maybe his powers weren't fully discovered.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
im not denying it im just saying im pretty sure it was stated but i could be wrong...i'll check and let everyone know tomorrow...im exhausted. It might have been stated when Hunter first debuted. But what you need to remember is that was also when Hunter had no control over his time bubble -- he could only stand still in time.

Nowadays he can literally become as fast or as slow as he wants. He even taught Eobard (a VERY adept speedster/temporal manipulator in his own right) a few new tricks.

Originally posted by MrMind
yes I remember zoom travel back time once. I forgot which issue, but I think it's poorly written. zoom manipulate time in his own time frame, he can stretch it to infinity, but he can't reverse time.

Time traveling =/= Reversing time

Originally posted by MrMind
like I said before
in theory, only 4 kinds of people can beat zoom
1. reality warpers
2. characters that zoom can't hurt
3. characters that can instantly reform themselves
4. toon force
however if we consider CIS, there could be more people that can beat zoom.
but with zoom's CIS off, I don't even see skyfather level can beat zoom. even characters like odin

I'm reluctantly forced to concede.

Galan was said Zoom can react before Darkseid can have a single thought. I trust his judgement.

Omega Vision: Yeah, I hear you. But Galan did acknowledge that DS had the power to remove Zoom's abilities, but he can't react fast enough.

His true form of course would win, but that's another story.

I do agree with either stomping Zoom or Zoom stomping the charrie he's faced against. There doesn't seem to be any room for middle ground with him on forums.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Time traveling =/= Reversing time
no shit, and I said zoom can't do that

Good sport.Originally posted by Galan007
It might have been stated when Hunter first debuted. But what you need to remember is that was also when Hunter had no control over his time bubble -- he could only stand still in time.

Nowadays he can literally become as fast or as slow as he wants. He even taught Eobard (a VERY adept speedster/temporal manipulator in his own right) a few new tricks. We said it at the same time (in a slightly different way).

Originally posted by MrMind
no shit, and I said zoom can't do that

If you know that, then what was the point mentioning it? No one claimed he can reverse time.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That *was* Barry's theory though.

Zoom did gain the ability to go through things as well, so maybe his powers weren't fully discovered.
until johns confirm zoom can time travel, I don't buy it

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I do agree with either stomping Zoom or Zoom stomping the charrie he's faced against. There doesn't seem to be any room for middle ground with him on forums. Nah, he's too broken. Flash is almost there in this scenario. Almost.Originally posted by MrMind
until johns confirm zoom can time travel, I don't buy it Your choice. He has many times though. Both Zooms.

Originally posted by MrMind
until johns confirm zoom can time travel, I don't buy it

Why? The proof is right there, on panel, not to mention it's coming from one of the most unbiased posters here.

Originally posted by MrMind
yes I remember zoom travel back time once. I forgot which issue, but I think it's poorly written. zoom manipulate time in his own time frame, he can stretch it to infinity, but he can't reverse time. He didn't reverse time itself. He slid his own time bubble backwards along the timeline.

Lets try something a bit easier... Take a ring and put it around a straw. Now take each side of the straw in your hands and tilt it up/down/right/left. See how the ring slides along the straw? The ring = Zoom's time bubble, and the straw = the mainstream timeline. That's basically how his time traveling abilities work -- he can slide the ring to any point of the straw he chooses.

Originally posted by MrMind
until johns confirm zoom can time travel, I don't buy it Johns wrote Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge, in which Zoom talked about his ability to time travel a few times. none

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If you know that, then what was the point mentioning it? No one claimed he can reverse time.
when I said reverse time, I mean go back in time, which something he can't do. you and galan007 claim he can go back time, I don't agree.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why? The proof is right there, on panel, not to mention it's coming from one of the most unbiased posters here.
because johns the one created zoom. and he shown zoon time travel

Originally posted by Galan007

Johns wrote Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge, in which Zoom talked about his ability to time travel a few times. none
show me the scan then I'll concede

Originally posted by Galan007
-Zoom-
"Feel the present pass us by, Thaddeus? Like standing on a rolling ball. You can control it":

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8133/zoom1ol9.th.jpg

We don't need you to concede, you're wrong.

I am the premier defender of Darkseid on this forum. I have conceded. That is enough.

Originally posted by MrMind
when I said reverse time, I mean go back in time, which something he can't do. you and galan007 claim he can go back time, I don't agree. ...And I didn't just 'claim' this. I provided on panel proof of Zoom ACTUALLY going back in time.

We know, Galan, we know.

I don't understand. We've posted the scans and the explanations. Galan explained it easily and as I said he's even had upgrades since his first appearance. He's done it multiple times.

I do agree to some extent about background mattering and not divulging into mindless featwars, but it is part of his character and has happened multiple times and has been explained.

Originally posted by Galan007

Ok in the scan zoom said "standing on the rolling ball you can control it, you can move as fast or as slow as you want to." that means his power makes him to slow down or accelerate time. nothing suggest he can go back in time which will require"rolling the ball backwards"

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I am the premier defender of Darkseid on this forum. I have conceded. That is enough. Where have you been anyways the past millennium?

Originally posted by MrMind
Ok in the scan zoom said "standing on the rolling ball you can control it, you can move as fast or as slow as you want to." that means his power makes him to slow down or accelerate time. nothing suggest he can go back in time which will require"rolling the ball backwards"

Except that the scan says "August 24th, AD 410?"

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except that the scan says "August 24th, AD 410?"
that one wasn't written by johns. I was referring to the rogue's revenge

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except that the scan says "August 24th, AD 410?" You don't understand. That comic wasn't written by Johns, therefore it apparently isn't canon!!

dur

Who did write that one? I'm curious.

Hudlin.

Either way, he's more than welcome to think what he thinks. It is what it is. Everyone else seems to accept that it is in Zoom's character.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hudlin.

Either way, he's more than welcome to think what he thinks. It is what it is. Everyone else seems to accept that it is in Zoom's character.
do you know which book? and travel back time. he only done it once didn't he

I might be wrong but I believe he's done it at least 3 times.

If you mean Hunter.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hudlin.

Either way, he's more than welcome to think what he thinks. It is what it is. Everyone else seems to accept that it is in Zoom's character.

Had Hudlin written that, I might be arguing the point. dur

The rogues revenge scan doesn't prove he can move back, just that he can control his movement.

Doesn't matter, the other scan is proof enough. Plus, Galan says he can move faster than DS can think. That's good enough for me.

Edit: Took a few years off KMC, had real life shit to do. How's the forum been?

Originally posted by MrMind
when I said reverse time, I mean go back in time, which something he can't do. you and galan007 claim he can go back time, I don't agree.

So then what I said stands:

Reversing time =/= Traveling in time

Don't try and correct me when I am in fact, correct.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I might be wrong but I believe he's done it at least 3 times.

If you mean Hunter.
hmmm, which book is with the scan 410 AD?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So then what I said stands:

Reversing time =/= Traveling in time

Don't try and correct me when I am in fact, correct.
when the phuck did I try to correct you?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Had Hudlin written that, I might be arguing the point. dur

The rogues revenge scan doesn't prove he can move back, just that he can control his movement.

Doesn't matter, the other scan is proof enough. Plus, Galan says he can move faster than DS can think. That's good enough for me.

Edit: Took a few years off KMC, had real life shit to do. How's the forum been? Which one? This? Ok, I don't post seriously too much anymore. I just chill and post in threads here and then.

That kid Cloud came back and socked about *3* times in ANOTHER Hayabusa vs God Rugal thread, he's gone... for now.

Things have been about the same I suppose. We had a crossover genre thing going which had threads like Frieza vs Thanos.

You can guess how that went.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Doesn't matter, the other scan is proof enough. Plus, Galan says he can move faster than DS can think. That's good enough for me. You're more than welcome to your own opinion, Trick. I have just never personally seen anything indicative of Darkseid possessing thought/reaction speeds on par with Flash.... Let alone Zoom. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
You're more than welcome to your own opinion, Trick. I have just never personally seen anything indicative of Darkseid possessing >>> Flash-esque thought processing/reaction speeds. /shrug I think he agrees... I think.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I don't understand. We've posted the scans and the explanations. Galan explained it easily and as I said he's even had upgrades since his first appearance. He's done it multiple times.

I do agree to some extent about background mattering and not divulging into mindless featwars, but it is part of his character and has happened multiple times and has been explained.
if it happened once I don't accept because that's not what he normally do. but if it happens more than once written by different writers, then ok that's his powerset. can you find another time zoom travel back time?

Originally posted by MrMind
when the phuck did I try to correct you?

You said Zoom can't reverse time. I pointed out that time traveling and reversing time were two completely different things. You then pretended you knew that (This is the part). That would mean you posted something completely irrelevant. Yet here you're saying that you meant the two as one in the same in the first place.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think he agrees... I think. I do agree. I just think that if that scan wasn't there I'd be arguing it. It is there, there is proof, case closed.

Besides, he said DS could depower him, that's enough of a victory.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I do agree. I just think that if that scan wasn't there I'd be arguing it. It is there, there is proof, case closed.

Besides, he said DS could depower him, that's enough of a victory. I knew it!Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You said Zoom can't reverse time. I pointed out that time traveling and reversing time were two completely different things. You then pretended you knew that (This is the part). That would mean you posted something completely irrelevant. Yet here you're saying that you meant the two as one in the same in the first place. Rage is a full time E-Warrior now... battling Quan got you in shape eh?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I do agree. I just think that if that scan wasn't there I'd be arguing it. It is there, there is proof, case closed.

Besides, he said DS could depower him, that's enough of a victory. Lol. Yeah, if the opportunity presented itself, Darkseid could almost certainly pluck Zoom from his time bubble, as he plucked Prof. Stein from the FS Matrix... I just don't see him having the chance to make any sort of cogniscant thought, and/or reaction before Zoom was pummeling him.

Originally posted by Galan007
You're more than welcome to your own opinion, Trick. I have just never personally seen anything indicative of Darkseid possessing thought/reaction speeds on par with Flash.... Let alone Zoom. /shrug how else is trick going to dig darkseid out of this hole?