Magneto vs Wonder Woman

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carver9
Who wins?

Magneto shields is already up.

chomperx9
does WW have her bracers on ?

SquallX
Originally posted by chomperx9
does WW have her bracers on ?

If you're thinking of Magneto manipulating them, then forget it.

chomperx9
Originally posted by SquallX
If you're thinking of Magneto manipulating them, then forget it. why not ?

Warlord
Magneto

-Pr-
Originally posted by chomperx9
why not ?

iirc they cant be affected that way.

gogogadgetgo
Originally posted by -Pr-
iirc they cant be affected that way.

but hasn't it already been affected by magnetism in comic or something?

KingD19
Yeah, Dr. Polaris already took Diana to town in the middle of a junkyard with her bracers.

Q99
Polaris was amped at a pole at the time, and I'll note the entire JLA was acting extra-vulnerable to magnetism compared to how they normally do.

She wasn't taken down, btw. Just got shocked painfully by electricity-generated-by-magnetism. And she has shown much higher resistance to electricity in the past.

KingD19
I didn't say taken down, I said taken to town. You can take someone to town in a fight and still lose.

But the fact remains that he used magnetism on the bracelets, and Magneto is the master of such.

He has enough ammo to win a majority.

Starscream M
Magneto for the majority. Wonder Woman gets a few though.

carver9
Originally posted by Q99
Polaris was amped at a pole at the time, and I'll note the entire JLA was acting extra-vulnerable to magnetism compared to how they normally do.

She wasn't taken down, btw. Just got shocked painfully by electricity-generated-by-magnetism. And she has shown much higher resistance to electricity in the past.

Magneto is more powerful than the version of poloris that was fighting the JLA. He didn't do anything that Magneto can't do even better with his powers during that fight.

Q99
Originally posted by carver9
Magneto is more powerful than the version of poloris that was fighting the JLA. He didn't do anything that Magneto can't do even better with his powers during that fight.

The point is, power aside, the JLA was acting extra-*weak* in some respects. The text-boxes commented on weaknesses that the league doesn't normally have.

She's taken the lightning of Zeus before, what he did is something Diana should shrug.

carver9
Originally posted by Q99
The point is, power aside, the JLA was acting extra-*weak* in some respects. The text-boxes commented on weaknesses that the league doesn't normally have.

She's taken the lightning of Zeus before, what he did is something Diana should shrug.

I agree, they weren't acting that great but before facing Poloris, didn't a GL mention that Poloris can mess with ALL of their blood?

Taking Zeus lightning is kind of different than taking a lightning attack from let's say, Storm or Poloris. Zeus lightning is magical in nature and Wondy is HIGHLY resistant to magic AND it doesn't aid that Wondy and Zeus are connected to an extent.

gogogadgetgo
Originally posted by Q99
The point is, power aside, the JLA was acting extra-*weak* in some respects. The text-boxes commented on weaknesses that the league doesn't normally have.

She's taken the lightning of Zeus before, what he did is something Diana should shrug.

and batman can survive being punched by class 100s...

but still, the bracers were still affected by magnetism.

753
for the sake of the thread, let's assume he cant manipulate the bracers or tiara directly. I say he still wins.

chomperx9
Originally posted by 753
for the sake of the thread, let's assume he cant manipulate the bracers or tiara directly. I say he still wins. but he can. dont know why people are adding additional upgrades to her bracers that dont exist.

carver9
Have a question. I along with a lot of others give Magneto the majority against most, if not ALL high heralds. Why isn't he listed as a high herald? Magneto has the powerset of a high herald and the only one that I truly wouldn't give him the majority against is Surfer and that's due to his versatility.

With that said, again, why isn't he classified as a high herald and don't say anything about his physical stats because physically, mags can amp himself to high class 100, physically and durability wise.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by carver9
Have a question. I along with a lot of others give Magneto the majority against most, if not ALL high heralds. Why isn't he listed as a high herald? Magneto has the powerset of a high herald and the only one that I truly wouldn't give him the majority against is Surfer and that's due to his versatility.

With that said, again, why isn't he classified as a high herald and don't say anything about his physical stats because physically, mags can amp himself to high class 100, physically and durability wise.
The first part is just lol.

As for the second part when has he amped himself to "high class 100" levels?

I think I can remember Ultimate Mags amping himself to fight Colossus (though it may have been 616, my memory is fuzzy) which isn't "high" class 100 at all.

753
the tier thread is outdated. I believe high heralds are required to have a few trans level feats - although some listed in it don't - so this raises the bar little bit. Even so, I personally see him as as an upper mid or high herald. SS would trample him however, make no mistake about that, it's not just versatilty, his raw power and energt manipulation are beyond him as well.

celeyhyga17
He not high herald.. Low to mid, but definitely a herald..

753
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The first part is just lol.

As for the second part when has he amped himself to "high class 100" levels?

I think I can remember Ultimate Mags amping himself to fight Colossus (though it may have been 616, my memory is fuzzy) which isn't "high" class 100 at all. actually, he's done it a few times. broke free from a bear hug by hercules and went toe to toe with colossus without his shields, his powers increase his durabilty when he tursn them to within so he could tank the punches.

but more importantly, the amount of force he can imprint with his powers ranges in the millions of tons of force at least

SquallX
That whole Polaris controlling Diana's bracelet was just PIS at his strongest. Just like Batman tagging Superman.

Starscream M
Originally posted by carver9
Have a question. I along with a lot of others give Magneto the majority against most, if not ALL high heralds. Why isn't he listed as a high herald? Magneto has the powerset of a high herald and the only one that I truly wouldn't give him the majority against is Surfer and that's due to his versatility.

With that said, again, why isn't he classified as a high herald and don't say anything about his physical stats because physically, mags can amp himself to high class 100, physically and durability wise. cosigned

carver9
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The first part is just lol.

As for the second part when has he amped himself to "high class 100" levels?

I think I can remember Ultimate Mags amping himself to fight Colossus (though it may have been 616, my memory is fuzzy) which isn't "high" class 100 at all.

Out of the main 3, I would give Magneto the majority against Supes and Thor. Thor and mags has fought on numerous of occassions, hell, Thor had help and Mags still schooled him. Thor only did good against a under powered Magneto.

As for Supes, Supes already fought a Mags clone more than once. I don't need to say anymore about that.

As for amping himself... you might want to read a lil more magneto. Hell, his fight against Cable is proof enough of this. Cable has fought Hulk, Jugs, apocalypes but Magneto punched his a** one time (while amping) and knocked half of his face off.

Existere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think I can remember Ultimate Mags amping himself to fight Colossus (though it may have been 616, my memory is fuzzy) which isn't "high" class 100 at all. I recall him amping himself to break a bear hug from Hercules.... I think?

chomperx9
Originally posted by SquallX
That whole Polaris controlling Diana's bracelet was just PIS at his strongest. Just like Batman tagging Superman. if Polaris can do it than so can Magneto

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He not high herald.. Low to mid, but definitely a herald..

Why not?

Is it his powers because if that's the case, Magneto versatility and raw power is off the chain?

He has created Black Holes and that alone puts him on the top of the chain. He has manipulated the electromagnetic spectrum to the levels of it basically being a planetary level threat.

Then let's not including him messing with people blood or electomagnetically shutting people bodies down or their brains. Damn, I could write a book on everything Mags has done and can do. Him manipulating Proteus, Mjlonir. I'm not about to name everything that he has done BUT he has proven that he is most def high herald.

Starscream M
He's also held his own very well against Thor. That alone puts him in the herald category.

praying-mantis
WW would stomp a hole in magnetos chest and dont think i like WW better because i dont...does anyone here beside me know WW is basically the same as superman except vision powers?
super strength,speed,flight,WISDOM hello! way smarter than magneto
talk about battle hardened!! i heard mention of thor which reminds me
OH YEAH shes fought gods people wake up! dont sleep on WW or
youll wind up asleep like magneto!

753
in terms of scale of feats, SS, thor and SM all have acomplished much bigger shit than magneto - of course, theyre heroes and even the SS has more appearences than Mags, but still, he's below them in raw power. that said, he is still a high herald IMO, just in the lower stratum of the tier. the top 3 have better feats than all the others in the category anyway.

I would also like to point out that the versatility of feats and tactics, and the combat efficiency he consistently squeezes out of his comparitively smaller power puts the entirety of high herald tier to shame in terms of how well one uses one's powerset.

IMO Mags would do pretty well against SM and hold his own against thor (with CIS on anyway), but SS would stomp him. energy manipulation just isn't the way to go against him.

753
Originally posted by praying-mantis
WW would stomp a hole in magnetos chest and dont think i like WW better because i dont...does anyone here beside me know WW is basically the same as superman except vision powers?
super strength,speed,flight,WISDOM hello! way smarter than magneto
talk about battle hardened!! i heard mention of thor which reminds me
OH YEAH shes fought gods people wake up! dont sleep on WW or
youll wind up asleep like magneto!

1. SM>WW

2. mags can indeed put her down for the count

carver9
Originally posted by 753
in terms of scale of feats, SS, thor and SM all have acomplished much bigger shit than magneto - of course, theyre heroes and even the SS has more appearences than Mags, but still, he's below them in raw power. that said, he is still a high herald IMO, just in the lower stratum of the tier. the top 3 have better feats than all the others in the category anyway.

I would also like to point out that the versatility of feats and tactics, and the combat efficiency he consistently squeezes out of his comparitively smaller power puts the entirety of high herald tier to shame in terms of how well one uses one's powerset.

IMO Mags would do pretty well against SM and hold his own against thor (with CIS on anyway), but SS would stomp him. energy manipulation just isn't the way to go against him.

I agree about your Silver Surfer comment but I disagree with the rest.

SquallX
Originally posted by chomperx9
if Polaris can do it than so can Magneto

It's call Pis. Just like Dr. Strange never one shotted WWH, when we all know he could have, if PIS, CIS was off.

carver9
Originally posted by SquallX
It's call Pis. Just like Dr. Strange never one shotted WWH, when we all know he could have, if PIS, CIS was off.

You can't throw everything off as PIS buddy just because you don't like it. The word PIS is overused anyways and people tend to say it to aid them in their arguments or to give the person they are routing for some kind of edge.

It happened.

753
Originally posted by SquallX
It's call Pis. Just like Dr. Strange never one shotted WWH, when we all know he could have, if PIS, CIS was off. why is it PIS? do the bracelets have a long history of being immune to magnetic forces?

SquallX
Originally posted by 753
why is it PIS? do the bracelets have a long history of being immune to magnetic forces?

Wonder Woman's bracelet were made form Zeus Aegis Shield, and yes so far only Polaris in that instance has ever done that. Even when Diana has fought Polaris before. So it's Pis that he could do it that one time, and never before, or after.

chomperx9
Originally posted by carver9
You can't throw everything off as PIS buddy just because you don't like it. The word PIS is overused anyways and people tend to say it to aid them in their arguments or to give the person they are routing for some kind of edge.

It happened. agreed

753
Originally posted by SquallX
Wonder Woman's bracelet were made form Zeus Aegis Shield, and yes so far only Polaris in that instance has ever done that. Even when Diana has fought Polaris before. So it's Pis that he could do it that one time, and never before, or after. did he try to do it and fail? did anyone else try adn fail? the fact that it only happened once, by itself, doesnt mean shit about them being immune to it.

The Line
Originally posted by 753
did he try to do it and fail? did anyone else try adn fail? the fact that it only happened once, by itself, doesnt mean shit about them being immune to it. The fact that the bracers do not conduct Superman's heat vision, and they have deflected lightning and energy before, as well as they themselves also being able to generate massive lightning, all concludes that they are not conductive and cannot be manipulated by magnetic force. Besides, Wonder Woman can pretty much take Magneto's head before he raises a shield.

KingD19
His shields are raised before the match starts, and considering the only instance anyone so far has brought up of magnetism being used on her bracers shows them being affected, we can only assume that they can be affected.

-Pr-
People are using ONE pis feats by Polaris that nerfed the JLA to make Magneto's case for him.

Don't.

Use actual Magneto feats, then prove that they can hurt Diana, please. And vice versa for the other side.

chomperx9
Originally posted by -Pr-
People are using ONE pis feats by Polaris that nerfed the JLA to make Magneto's case for him.

Don't.

Use actual Magneto feats, then prove that they can hurt Diana, please. And vice versa for the other side. if the bracers were controlled one time, why cant they be controlled again ?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by chomperx9
if the bracers were controlled one time, why cant they be controlled again ?
Even if they were subject to magnetism you'd have to prove that Mags' control would be greater than WW's physical strength.

chomperx9
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Even if they were subject to magnetism you'd have to prove that Mags' control would be greater than WW's physical strength. Mags shield can protect him from phoenix im sure he is powerful enough to control WWs bracers. dont know why people are making every excuse possible for her damn bracers. and besides that, she has other metal pieces on her body like her lasso and stuff so magneto has a good advantage here.

IF ww was flat chested probably we wouldnt have this many people adding upgrades to WW that dont exist.

753
Originally posted by The Line
The fact that the bracers do not conduct Superman's heat vision, and they have deflected lightning and energy before, as well as they themselves also being able to generate massive lightning, all concludes that they are not conductive and cannot be manipulated by magnetic force. Besides, Wonder Woman can pretty much take Magneto's head before he raises a shield. read the op, he already starts with a shield up.

assuming that the bracers cannot be manipulated through magnetism because they dont conduct heat, can deflect energy attacs and generate lightinign is pure nonsense.

magneto has manipulated mjolnir, which can do everything you listed and a lot more.

753
Originally posted by -Pr-
People are using ONE pis feats by Polaris that nerfed the JLA to make Magneto's case for him.

Don't.

Use actual Magneto feats, then prove that they can hurt Diana, please. And vice versa for the other side. well, magneto has manipualted mjolnir, does that count as an indication that he can manipulate the bracers and the tiara?

In any event, like I said before, it's more productive to ignore the possibilty of him amnipulating her gear. I say he still wins through fine control of his powers by attacking her physiology directly or simply blasting her.

Mindset
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Even if they were subject to magnetism you'd have to prove that Mags' control would be greater than WW's physical strength. Easy.

Existere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Even if they were subject to magnetism you'd have to prove that Mags' control would be greater than WW's physical strength. Not necessarily. If Wonder Woman's strength exceeds the force Magneto's capable of mustering, it's to a small degree and would require the entirety of her concentration to constantly overpower, which wouldn't be nearly the same in reverse.

He could pretty easily concentrate on generating electricity throughout her entire body, slam her into a variety of objects, hit her with a similar blast to what he hit Sentry with (and apply enough EM control over her armor to hinder her ability to dodge), and still maintain his shield. Magneto is the king of multitasking heralds.

753
if she's wearing the tiara and he can manipualte that, she'd be in for it.

JakeTheBank
As someone's who read a lot of WW, there's really nothing to suggest her gear being immune to magnetic manipulation. Magneto's not going to outright destroy her equipment nor would he likely alter the shape/consistency of the bracers and tiara, but metal is metal is metal.

Magneto for the majority.

Konton
Originally posted by chomperx9
she has other metal pieces on her body like her lasso

laughing

chomperx9
Originally posted by Konton
laughing hows that funny ?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
As someone's who read a lot of WW, there's really nothing to suggest her gear being immune to magnetic manipulation. Magneto's not going to outright destroy her equipment nor would he likely alter the shape/consistency of the bracers and tiara, but metal is metal is metal.

You are aware that not every metal is readily magnetic right?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You are aware that not every metal is readily magnetic right?

Yes, but there's nothing to suggest that Diana's gear wouldn't be effected. Also considering that Magneto's powers have worked against devices/people/metal that was shielded against magnetism to begin with, and I really have no reason Diana's gear would be less prone to manipulation than Mjolnir.

Like I said, he's not breaking down the gear or molding it into another shape, but using the metal she does have on her, he has enough to work with considering his own fine control of power. He doesn't stomp her, but he does have a lot to work with to grant him the majority over her, barring her getting lucky enough to get through his defenses.

BattleMage
Mags would cut her head OFF with her tiara.
Magneto 8/10

BattleMage
Originally posted by chomperx9
she has other metal pieces on her body like her lasso

laughing out loud

SquallX
I hope you guys are joking with that whole metal thing. All of Diana's equipments are magical base, that also includes her tiara. That's one of the reason she was able to slit Superman's throat with it.

Hephaestus created all of the standard equipment she wore on her person.

Until someone comes here with other proof of Diana's metal been magnetic, than that showing with Polaris was just bad writing at his finest.

chomperx9
Originally posted by SquallX
I hope you guys are joking with that whole metal thing. All of Diana's equipments are magical base, that also includes her tiara. That's one of the reason she was able to slit Superman's throat with it.

Hephaestus created all of the standard equipment she wore on her person.

Until someone comes here with other proof of Diana's metal been magnetic, than that showing with Polaris was just bad writing at his finest. if that was such bad writing of polaris controlling her, then how is someone supposed to post any feat without hearing the bad writing crap as an excuse ?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by SquallX
I hope you guys are joking with that whole metal thing. All of Diana's equipments are magical base, that also includes her tiara. That's one of the reason she was able to slit Superman's throat with it.

Hephaestus created all of the standard equipment she wore on her person.

Until someone comes here with other proof of Diana's metal been magnetic, than that showing with Polaris was just bad writing at his finest.

Mjolnir's magical. Magneto manipulated it. erm

It being magic does not preclude it from being magnetic proof.

Mindset
Originally posted by chomperx9
if that was such bad writing of polaris controlling her, then how is someone supposed to post any feat without hearing the bad writing crap as an excuse ? thumb up

SquallX
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Mjolnir's magical. Magneto manipulated it. erm

It being magic does not preclude it from being magnetic proof.

ABC logic doesn't work all the time. Just because he did that to Thor's hammer, doesn't mean he could do it to Diana's armor.

Mindset
Originally posted by SquallX
ABC logic doesn't work all the time. Just because he did that to Thor's hammer, doesn't mean he could do it to Diana's armor. Is there evidence to show it can't be controlled by Magneto?

Existere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You are aware that not every metal is readily magnetic right? Considering that Magneto's exercised his powers over materials that aren't even metal in the first place (though magnetized metals are obviously easier for him to manipulate), it's probably not a major point of contention.


----------------


Also, I don't see Magneto's control over her equipment as being the key to this debate. He has the capacity to defend himself and harm her beyond simply affecting her bracers.

chomperx9
Originally posted by Mindset
Is there evidence to show it can't be controlled by Magneto? thumb up

Existere
Originally posted by SquallX
ABC logic doesn't work all the time. Just because he did that to Thor's hammer, doesn't mean he could do it to Diana's armor. So it's easy enough to provide proof that Magneto can affect all standard metals and pretty much all materials unless they're specifically shielded to his powers.

Do you have any evidence beyond claiming 'magic!' that would lead to the conclusion that Diana's equipment is shielded?

Sirius77
I don't doubt that magneto wouldn't be able to manipulate diana's armor, but her armor and weapons aren't necessarily the problem. The fact that she's a class 100 flying superspeed brick with ridiculous combat abilities is the problem imo. I still see her winning this more times than not. This is not to say that mags isn't powerful, just that diana is more of a beast than most credit her.

JakeTheBank
I think that if Magneto was just a blaster type, this would be Diana's fight, but he's pretty versatile in the use of his powers and can set the pace for this match. Diana's speed use is pretty liberal, but she doesn't speed blitz the holy hell out of people to start and Magneto with his shields already raised gives him an advantage. Environment plays a big role here, too.

Warlord

Q99
Thor has metal, does Magneto beat him?


That Polaris, let's remember, dealt with Diana only briefly (and the primary thing he did was *shock* her, he didn't send her flying or anything), and was also holding back Superman (with use of metal) and doing J'onn and the rest of the league at the same time.

SquallX

carver9
Originally posted by Q99
Thor has metal, does Magneto beat him?


That Polaris, let's remember, dealt with Diana only briefly (and the primary thing he did was *shock* her, he didn't send her flying or anything), and was also holding back Superman (with use of metal) and doing J'onn and the rest of the league at the same time.

I would give Magneto some wins against Thor... hell, I would give him the majority. Especially since he showed that he could use Thor hammer as a weapon.

Like I said before, the only herald I wouldn't give Magneto odds against is Surfer. Surfer is just too damn versatile and powerful.

Konton
Originally posted by carver9
I would give Magneto some wins against Thor... hell, I would give him the majority. Especially since he showed that he could use Thor hammer as a weapon.

Like I said before, the only herald I wouldn't give Magneto odds against is Surfer. Surfer is just too damn versatile and powerful.

sad

Magneto can't beat Sersi

shifty

Warlord
Originally posted by SquallX
That's the thing, that was the only time that ever happened. She has face Polaris more than once, and he never once did that, unless i'm forgetting something.

Like someone before me posted, Diana's bracers doesn't conduct heat, it doesn't conduct electricity. So why would magnetism work on it, unless it was PIS.

So the only time he tried to manipulate them he succeeded?
We are talking about 100% success here.

Unless there are instances were he tried and failed the bracers CAN be affected by magnetism.

Whether this is enough for Mags to win the fight is debatable

Prep-Man
Like I said in the previous thread, Polaris can amp by tapping into the poles themselves. He has better absorprion feats than Magneto. For instance, he was once able to absorb the magnetism of an entire dimension and had the power to shatter worlds.

Ms_Molly_Hayes
Wonder Woman it's all in the name.

753
Originally posted by Q99
Thor has metal, does Magneto beat him?


That Polaris, let's remember, dealt with Diana only briefly (and the primary thing he did was *shock* her, he didn't send her flying or anything), and was also holding back Superman (with use of metal) and doing J'onn and the rest of the league at the same time. well... mjolnir aint a magic tiara

those things polaris did were entirely plausible for magneto to do

Existere
Originally posted by Q99
Thor has metal, does Magneto beat him?


That Polaris, let's remember, dealt with Diana only briefly (and the primary thing he did was *shock* her, he didn't send her flying or anything), and was also holding back Superman (with use of metal) and doing J'onn and the rest of the league at the same time. Thor also has a different powerset designed to combat energy manipulators. Diana lacks Thor's ability to absorb Magneto's shield.

I don't really see how your second point relates to a battle between Magneto and Diana.

praying-mantis
I cant believe all the arguments continue to hinge on wonder womans
clothes articles, clearly magneto & polaris know how to & HAVE affected
people(normal people at least)by the iron content in there blood saying that & that i like magneto better still he would not win in a fight v.s
someone who could fly through him & his "shield" wonder woman is
powerful over magnetos scale like the rest of jla as i said b4 she has fought GODS how can this even be a discussion?

Dum Dum Dugan
Originally posted by praying-mantis

someone who could fly through him & his "shield" wonder woman is
powerful over magnetos scale like the rest of jla as i said b4 she has fought GODS how can this even be a discussion?
Becuase fighting gods does not making you auto win.









also I give you a hint so has magneto.

praying-mantis
to me the argument boils down to magnetos shield/magnetic strength versus wonder womans physical strength and or flight speed velocity
which i feel magnetos shields/body wouldnt stand up to let alone if it came down to punches

Mindset
You don't think his shield could stand up to her punches?

Why not?

Dum Dum Dugan
Magneto aint a jobber either, with cis on he extremely dangerous to any forum opponent within reason. Because his cis barly if at all effects him negatively, while the same can not be said of his opponents.

praying-mantis
because the marvel universe as a whole when calculating power levels has had few characters that are"above and beyond"because i feel they dont have the wit to write good stories for those char whereas dc has
never had this problem dc for example just has gods vs gods or demigods basically thor/hercules are the only mainstream char used
moreso thor simply cause i think due to simonson but wonder woman is
"old school" like superfriends days kinda strong thus my references to fighting gods she according to dc is as strong/fast as superman back in the day superman got "weaker"and it was called"marvelizing"simply because he was SUPER now he was just strong wonder woman didnt get
lessened in any way

Existere
Originally posted by praying-mantis
because the marvel universe as a whole when calculating power levels has had few characters that are"above and beyond"because i feel they dont have the wit to write good stories for those char whereas dc has
never had this problem dc for example just has gods vs gods or demigods basically thor/hercules are the only mainstream char used
moreso thor simply cause i think due to simonson but wonder woman is
"old school" like superfriends days kinda strong thus my references to fighting gods she according to dc is as strong/fast as superman back in the day superman got "weaker"and it was called"marvelizing"simply because he was SUPER now he was just strong wonder woman didnt get
lessened in any way holy shit.

use a period.

praying-mantis
lmao i apologize for i am a lazy typist too much comic reading not enough schoolwork

753
Originally posted by praying-mantis
to me the argument boils down to magnetos shield/magnetic strength versus wonder womans physical strength and or flight speed velocity
which i feel magnetos shields/body wouldnt stand up to let alone if it came down to punches his shields have never been breached IINM and they've stopped top tiers and class 100s. she can certainly pound away until the strain of sustaining them makes him drop them, but I don't see that happening in able time. he'll drop her first

753
Originally posted by praying-mantis
because the marvel universe as a whole when calculating power levels has had few characters that are"above and beyond"because i feel they dont have the wit to write good stories for those char whereas dc has
never had this problem dc for example just has gods vs gods or demigods basically thor/hercules are the only mainstream char used
moreso thor simply cause i think due to simonson but wonder woman is
"old school" like superfriends days kinda strong thus my references to fighting gods she according to dc is as strong/fast as superman back in the day superman got "weaker"and it was called"marvelizing"simply because he was SUPER now he was just strong wonder woman didnt get
lessened in any way I wonder how much wit it takes to write a story where a character sneezes a solar system away. msot writers have worked for both companies btw

silly puddy
Originally posted by 753
his shields have never been breached IINM and they've stopped top tiers and class 100s. she can certainly pound away until the strain of sustaining them makes him drop them, but I don't see that happening in able time. he'll drop her first The problem I have with this fight and all the Magneto supporters is that they forget that Magneto has never fought someone so fast in his entire career. It's not just that she's as strong as the Hulk, but she's faster than Jay Garrick. Dozens or even hundreds of High Class 100 pin point martial arts strikes against his shields would require all of Magneto's concentration. One slip up and he's dead. I doubt he can shoot his energy beams faster than she can deflect them. Can Magneto even hit something that can move as fast as Hermes?

753
Originally posted by silly puddy
The problem I have with this fight and all the Magneto supporters is that they forget that Magneto has never fought someone so fast in his entire career. It's not just that she's as strong as the Hulk, but she's faster than Jay Garrick. Dozens or even hundreds of High Class 100 pin point martial arts strikes against his shields would require all of Magneto's concentration. One slip up and he's dead. I doubt he can shoot his energy beams faster than she can deflect them. Can Magneto even hit something that can move as fast as Hermes? the superspeed would raise the abr, but I still think he can do it, specially with CIS on for her. he shouldnt be able to "tag" her, but he can use area of effect attacks to hit her wherever she is even without knowing it.

silly puddy
Originally posted by 753
the superspeed would raise the abr, but I still think he can do it, specially with CIS on for her. he shouldnt be able to "tag" her, but he can use area of effect attacks to hit her wherever she is even without knowing it. How would she not know it? She's got those Goddess eyes. And when she was blind, she fought the JLA, and she knew where they were. She even knew where Dr. Zoom was while blind. She also fought Medusa without looking at her. I think her not knowing where something is would be PIS. And you are saying you think he can do it. What proof is there? Who has he fought that is anywhere near as fast as she is?

753
Originally posted by silly puddy
How would she not know it? She's got those Goddess eyes. And when she was blind, she fought the JLA, and she knew where they were. She even knew where Dr. Zoom was while blind. She also fought Medusa without looking at her. I think her not knowing where something is would be PIS. And you are saying you think he can do it. What proof is there? Who has he fought that is anywhere near as fast as she is? I meant taht he can hit her without knowing where she is through AoE attacks.

silly puddy
Originally posted by 753
I meant taht he can hit her without knowing where she is through AoE attacks. AOE attacks are never as powerful as concentrated attacks. Do you think he is fast enough to land a blast on her before she blocks it, or simply moves out of the way?

753
Originally posted by silly puddy
AOE attacks are never as powerful as concentrated attacks. Do you think he is fast enough to land a blast on her before she blocks it, or simply moves out of the way? a regular focused blast, probably not. but one that covers a radius, yes. some of his attacks travel at lightspped (technically they should all move at lightspeed, but we know that in comics, energy blasts arent always that fast)

silly puddy
Originally posted by 753
a regular focused blast, probably not. but one that covers a radius, yes. some of his attacks travel at lightspped (technically they should all move at lightspeed, but we know that in comics, energy blasts arent always that fast) I'm certain Wonder Woman has blocked, tagged, or caught stuff faster than light speed many times over. I'm still not seeing how Magneto is beating basically the Hulk with flash like speed, and Batman like skills. Not happening.

KingD19
Somebody has a hard-on for Diaaaaaanaaaaaaa.

753
Originally posted by silly puddy
I'm certain Wonder Woman has blocked, tagged, or caught stuff faster than light speed many times over. I'm still not seeing how Magneto is beating basically the Hulk with flash like speed, and Batman like skills. Not happening. she isnt as skilled as bats or as strong as the hulk at his best, and she is most definitely not as fast as the flash. Sure she is powerfull, like a superman-light, but not that powerfull.

she probably has dodged ftl attacks, but she also gets tagged by far less. using ehr normal and high showings to get an average, I'd say lightspeed attacks should hit her, specially if they are launched in a battery.

SquallX
Originally posted by 753
she isnt as skilled as bats or as strong as the hulk at his best, and she is most definitely not as fast as the flash. Sure she is powerfull, like a superman-light, but not that powerfull.

she probably has dodged ftl attacks, but she also gets tagged by far less. using ehr normal and high showings to get an average, I'd say lightspeed attacks should hit her, specially if they are launched in a battery.

I hope you're joking. Because if you're not mad

753
Originally posted by SquallX
I hope you're joking. Because if you're not mad well she isnt. bats is better, flash is faster and hulk has the better higher end strengh feats out of the two

SquallX
Originally posted by 753
well she isnt. bats is better, flash is faster and hulk has the better higher end strengh feats out of the two

Everything you wrote is wrong except for the Flash being faster than her.

Diana was raised in a society of warriors She lived, and breath war fare. She outclasses Bruce in all category.

Diana high end feat far outclasses the Hulk. One of her best feat is her along with Superman, and MM moved the Earth.

carver9
Originally posted by SquallX
Everything you wrote is wrong except for the Flash being faster than her.

Diana was raised in a society of warriors She lived, and breath war fare. She outclasses Bruce in all category.

Diana high end feat far outclasses the Hulk. One of her best feat is her along with Superman, and MM moved the Earth.

Hhhmmm...

What about a weakened Hulk holding planet Sakaar together that was about to split in half? Remember, planet Sakaar is twice the size of Earth.

Your turn.

753
Originally posted by SquallX
Everything you wrote is wrong except for the Flash being faster than her.

Diana was raised in a society of warriors She lived, and breath war fare. She outclasses Bruce in all category.

Diana high end feat far outclasses the Hulk. One of her best feat is her along with Superman, and MM moved the Earth.

nah

So was thor. So what? Elektra's skill feats are better than thor's and BM's are better than WW's

that's nice. the hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size the size of the earth; chook tatctonic plates with the sheer stress of his leg muscles contracting without him moving twice and was going to destroy the planet earth by taking a step on it on one of these occasions; held a planet that was breaking in two together; held matter and anti-matter apart; lit up a galaxy with a thunderclap; grabbed a massless ball of energy from the air thanks to his strengh alone (this one doesn't even make sense)

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SquallX
Everything you wrote is wrong except for the Flash being faster than her.

Diana was raised in a society of warriors She lived, and breath war fare. She outclasses Bruce in all category.

Diana high end feat far outclasses the Hulk. One of her best feat is her along with Superman, and MM moved the Earth.
erm

She's not better than Bruce in skill.

She's not as good as Bruce in skill.

I wouldn't even say she's close.

If we did make MA Tiers for DC you'd have guys like KK at the very top, then people like Batgirl and Shiva, then Batman, then Black Canary, and then you might have Wonder Woman.

Being from a society of warriors doesn't automatically make you better than anyone from a less warlike society.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
erm

She's not better than Bruce in skill.

She's not as good as Bruce in skill.

I wouldn't even say she's close.

If we did make MA Tiers for DC you'd have guys like KK at the very top, then people like Batgirl and Shiva, then Batman, then Black Canary, and then you might have Wonder Woman.

Being from a society of warriors doesn't automatically make you better than anyone from a less warlike society. Logically it kind of does since everyone from that warlike society is extremely skilled especially compared to regular human beings. It's like saying competition doesn't make you any better which is illogical.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Omega Vision
erm

She's not better than Bruce in skill.

She's not as good as Bruce in skill.

I wouldn't even say she's close.

If we did make MA Tiers for DC you'd have guys like KK at the very top, then people like Batgirl and Shiva, then Batman, then Black Canary, and then you might have Wonder Woman.

Being from a society of warriors doesn't automatically make you better than anyone from a less warlike society.

Didn't Bruce say that Diana was the best mele fighter?

BattleMage
Originally posted by SquallX
I hope you guys are joking with that whole metal thing. All of Diana's equipments are magical base, that also includes her tiara. That's one of the reason she was able to slit Superman's throat with it.

Hephaestus created all of the standard equipment she wore on her person.

Until someone comes here with other proof of Diana's metal been magnetic, than that showing with Polaris was just bad writing at his finest. So MOLNIR isn't magical?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Didn't Bruce say that Diana was the best mele fighter?

that was under mcduffie.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Logically it kind of does since everyone from that warlike society is extremely skilled especially compared to regular human beings. It's like saying competition doesn't make you any better which is illogical.

but batman isn't a regular human being.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
that was under mcduffie.



but batman isn't a regular human being. Didn't say he was but WW is clearly not a regular woman either. Her competition is better than his is is my point. Logically it would make sense for the person with the greater competition from moment of creation among supernatural beings to be better than one of the most skilled human beings out there.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Didn't say he was but WW is clearly not a regular woman either. Her competition is better than his is is my point. Logically it would make sense for the person with the greater competition from moment of creation among supernatural beings to be better than one of the most skilled human beings out there.

batman's competition is people like batgirl, shiva etc. nobody diana fights regularly is that skilled.

diana hasn't had as much training as bruce has had either.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
batman's competition is people like batgirl, shiva etc. nobody diana fights regularly is that skilled.

diana hasn't had as much training as bruce has had either. So you feel batman is more skilled than diana ?

Also do you feel someone like Ares isn't as skilled as batgirl, shiva, etc. ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you feel batman is more skilled than diana ?

Also do you feel someone like Ares isn't as skilled as batgirl, shiva, etc. ?

batman has more than enough feats to put him above diana in terms of skill. don't get me wrong, diana IS an excellent fighter, but bruce is just another level.

Ares is different, though yes, I would say that even if he was as skilled, it's not like he uses it that often.

Bruce is tested in hand to hand skill more than Diana is, and has more training in more different styles than she does.

"Training among warriors" is very close to sticking a no-limits fallacy on her.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
batman has more than enough feats to put him above diana in terms of skill. don't get me wrong, diana IS an excellent fighter, but bruce is just another level.

Ares is different, though yes, I would say that even if he was as skilled, it's not like he uses it that often.

Bruce is tested in hand to hand skill more than Diana is, and has more training in more different styles than she does.

"Training among warriors" is very close to sticking a no-limits fallacy on her. Batman probably has more feats of skill since he relies on it slightly more than ww since she's a powerhouse as well. Currently, I think ww is depowered so I am sure her skill showings will continue to pour in until her power level returns to classic levels.

I think Ares uses it but I am not too aware of as many fights as he's had he is usually pulling the strings and doesn't always necessarily confront diana in open combat.

To me I think portrayal though this is just my opinion I am hardly an expert on either character here but I view diana as more skilled than bruce is. I feel bruce is up there but wouldn't last that long against gods who have been honing their craft for thousands of years. I feel bruce has her in prep not skill but agree to disagree.

KingD19
The whole point though, is that even though Diana hones her skills, she doesn't use them nearly as much because she has insane powers to fall back on. And her usual opponents aren't in the top 10 world's most skilled fighters.

Bruce on the other hand has nothing but his skill to rely on, and he regularly fights people who put his insane skills to the test.

You can be a martial arts master, but if you fight brawlers who can toss buses and you respond by brawling and tossing trains, you lose that edge.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Batman probably has more feats of skill since he relies on it slightly more than ww since she's a powerhouse as well. Currently, I think ww is depowered so I am sure her skill showings will continue to pour in until her power level returns to classic levels.

I think Ares uses it but I am not too aware of as many fights as he's had he is usually pulling the strings and doesn't always necessarily confront diana in open combat.

To me I think portrayal though this is just my opinion I am hardly an expert on either character here but I view diana as more skilled than bruce is. I feel bruce is up there but wouldn't last that long against gods who have been honing their craft for thousands of years. I feel bruce has her in prep not skill but agree to disagree.

no expression

shrug

i do get what you're saying, and there is some truth to it (yes, she is more skilled than she generally appears), but it's an awful big leap to say she's more skilled than Bruce, imo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
The whole point though, is that even though Diana hones her skills, she doesn't use them nearly as much because she has insane powers to fall back on. And her usual opponents aren't in the top 10 world's most skilled fighters.

Bruce on the other hand has nothing but his skill to rely on, and he regularly fights people who put his insane skills to the test.

You can be a martial arts master, but if you fight brawlers who can toss buses and you respond by brawling and tossing trains, you lose that edge. She doesn't use them nearly as often imo because she doesn't have to. Writers can have her hv'd in the face by Superman but with Batman that would kill him so they have to come up with a creative way around that if those two are in a scuffle.

WW also used her skills quite nicely against Superman when he was out to kill her/DD whatever. I don't think we are going to agree on this but to me this sounds like a new thread topic because I am far from a ww expert to accurately defend her.

KingD19
I'm with PR, and Quan I'll just assume we're agreeing to disagree.

Because basically what I'm saying is, people like Batman and Karate Kid are so insanely skilled martial arts wise is because all they do is train and use those skills in fights.

Diana trains and is really good don't get me wrong, but she can't be in Bruce's league because she has a crutch. If she trained more intensely, and hadn't had her powers for as long as she's been around, or at least a large majority of the time, you could make that claim. But as it is now, far too often she resorts to brawling which would get her destroyed by some of these street level gods.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
I'm with PR, and Quan I'll just assume we're agreeing to disagree.

Because basically what I'm saying is, people like Batman and Karate Kid are so insanely skilled martial arts wise is because all they do is train and use those skills in fights.

Diana trains and is really good don't get me wrong, but she can't be in Bruce's league because she has a crutch. If she trained more intensely, and hadn't had her powers for as long as she's been around, or at least a large majority of the time, you could make that claim. But as it is now, far too often she resorts to brawling which would get her destroyed by some of these street level gods. I guess but someone already stated out of batman's own mouth ww is the better melee fighter for what it's worth.

WW has never softened up to my knowledge due to lack of training or skill. When she needs it it's still there.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess but someone already stated out of batman's own mouth ww is the better melee fighter for what it's worth.

WW has never softened up to my knowledge due to lack of training or skill. When she needs it it's still there.

one panel isn't proof. erm

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
one panel isn't proof. erm It's a direct comparison by a writer between the two characters. I think WW has definitely shown herself to be well skilled throughout her appearances to back up any such statement.

You can disagree and this is only according to one writer but batman having more feats doesn't mean he's more skilled. It's your opinion which is fine while this is my opinion.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's a direct comparison by a writer between the two characters. I think WW has definitely shown herself to be well skilled throughout her appearances to back up any such statement.

You can disagree and this is only according to one writer but batman having more feats doesn't mean he's more skilled. It's your opinion which is fine while this is my opinion.

one writer, that spent his time building up wonder woman through the entire arc.

he doesn't just have more feats, he has BETTER feats, which is more important. she has enough h2h feats to judge her skill level. so does he. as it stands, imo his are superior.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
one writer, that spent his time building up wonder woman through the entire arc.

he doesn't just have more feats, he has BETTER feats, which is more important. she has enough h2h feats to judge her skill level. so does he. as it stands, imo his are superior. Bottom line we disagree and both sides have proof but I am going to create a thread so as to see hopefully feats of both characters because this topic interests me. Hopefully, tideoftime will see this new topic as he seems like he has a pretty good sense of ww's capabilities.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by KingD19
The whole point though, is that even though Diana hones her skills, she doesn't use them nearly as much because she has insane powers to fall back on. And her usual opponents aren't in the top 10 world's most skilled fighters.

Bruce on the other hand has nothing but his skill to rely on, and he regularly fights people who put his insane skills to the test.

You can be a martial arts master, but if you fight brawlers who can toss buses and you respond by brawling and tossing trains, you lose that edge.

This is true. Diana needed to use her speed to take Batman down. She's still a great fighter though and probably one of the best top tier fighters in comics.

JakeTheBank
(Classic) Diana recently used her skills against Genocide as she couldn't afford to fight her head on. And she likewise used skills against Superman.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Bottom line we disagree and both sides have proof but I am going to create a thread so as to see hopefully feats of both characters because this topic interests me. Hopefully, tideoftime will see this new topic as he seems like he has a pretty good sense of ww's capabilities.

and I don't? ermm

It's okay; you're still wrong. stick out tongue

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
and I don't? ermm

It's okay; you're still wrong. stick out tongue You know even if I was which I am never you'd never hear me say it or even utter it to myself. I'd believe the lie. stick out tongue

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
You know even if I was which I am never you'd never hear me say it or even utter it to myself. I'd believe the lie. stick out tongue

True.

silly puddy
Originally posted by KingD19
I'm with PR, and Quan I'll just assume we're agreeing to disagree.

Because basically what I'm saying is, people like Batman and Karate Kid are so insanely skilled martial arts wise is because all they do is train and use those skills in fights.

Diana trains and is really good don't get me wrong, but she can't be in Bruce's league because she has a crutch. If she trained more intensely, and hadn't had her powers for as long as she's been around, or at least a large majority of the time, you could make that claim. But as it is now, far too often she resorts to brawling which would get her destroyed by some of these street level gods. Wonder Woman was de powered and still beat the shit out of the Goddess Diana, who is like Ares' daughter or something. WW's weaker than Superman. And she's had to use skill to be on an even playing field. She used her skill to utterly embarrass Powergirl, who is probably stronger and faster than her. Wonder Woman used her skill to beat the Queen of Fables, who is a high reality manipulator. She's used her skill to beat Zoom. She certainly isn't fast enough to actually beat him. She used her skill to fight Konvict. Who was beasting the whole JLA. She also used skill to fight Ares, Circe, and Amazo. She regularly fights beings who are beyond Superman. The only thing I can think of that saves her a$$, is her skill. She's at least as skilled as Batman. Hell, she once even beat Beowulf with a sword. Who beats Beowulf at his own game?

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by -Pr-
no expression

shrug

i do get what you're saying, and there is some truth to it (yes, she is more skilled than she generally appears), but it's an awful big leap to say she's more skilled than Bruce, imo.

I have to agree with PR on this one because I think it comes down to hype vs feats. And I don't mean to use the term hype to downplay Diana's abilities at all. Quan would be correct if we were to go based on the descriptions that Diana has gotten over the years. "Greatest melee fighter in the world. "Mastered X number of fighting styles and weapons." "Amazon training > all." "Greatest warrior in the DC."

The problem is that most writers will not show us any of this in actual fights. One of the problems is that Diana typically doesn't need to use the kind of skill someone of that level would when she's fighting super powered bricks.

I believe that she is incredibly skilled and would put up a fight against any of the best fighters in the DC without her powers. Batman has better feats and his skill/brain is all he has. So we have to just hedge our bets on this one. I think all of the comments about WW's skill and the fights and sparring with other great martial artists that we have seen inform us that she is unquestionably skilled. But until we get to see a depowered Diana fight someone like Batman and win, then I don't think we can put her above that group when there just isn't enough on panel evidence. I am not dismissing the comments that people like McDuffie have written about her though. I just need to *see* it before I make a statement like "WW is more skilled than Batman."

And back on topic, I do not think magnetism would work on Diana's gear. That Dr. Polaris fight was utter BS. I remember asking Gail Simone if the bracers would be susceptible to magnetism and she said no. I know that is just one writer's opinion, but given the fact that most of what happened in that story went against fairly established character traits (Diana being weak against lightning, the bracers conducting electricity, etc) I am going to let common sense rule the day. The bracers aren't even made from metal (unless that is getting rebooted as well) and the rest of her gear would likely be made from gold or some other such non-magnetic metal. That's before adding in the whole "it's magic" argument.

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