Marvels "Low Heralds" vs. DC's Supertypes

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Existere
Doom, Magneto and Cassandra Nova start side by side, individual shields raised around all three.

They face Superman, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Black Adam and Captain Marvel

They fight on/above Castle Doom (though with no prior notice or prep, and Latveria is devoid of all other people)

In character.

bbrem123
DC wins

Existere
Originally posted by bbrem123
DC wins How so? Feel free to expand.

JakeTheBank
Hmmm.

Well, Doom's magic would be useful against the Kryptonians, but not so much against Diana, and even less effective against the Marvels. His magic/tech is good enough to stand up against high heralds for a time, though. Magneto's versatile and powerful in his own right, but I'm uncertain of how he'll fare in this fight as a whole. Nova's TP is pretty tough, but I think Diana will probably resist it or be immune to it. I know telepathy has been shown to be dependent on plot as to how far it effects the Marvel Family members. Their wisdom and courage usually protects them from mental intrusion/attack, but I know Captain Marvel was once forced into saying Shazam by Brainwave (though Mr. Mind was inside of his brain, so he could have been amped or something). At the same time, he was apparently only mildly irritated when faced with a room full of telepaths the Ultra-Humanite w/Thunderbolt had been using to keep the majority of the world docile. And Black Adam has been shown to be effected by Psycho Pirate, so take it as you will.

In character, I think Doom and the others pack more versatility and the willingness to use it, but can they win before arguably the strongest and fastest tough guys (and gals) in DC destroy them?

Can Doom activate Castle Doom's defenses/use it's resources during the battle?

Existere
Castle Doom's defenses are initially all dormant, and the only tech or resources available will be those that can be proven to be regular elements of the castle (Doombots, I imagine. I wouldn't know what else).

If those can be accessed in the middle of battle, they're free to be used.

As I said, no prep.

Existere
Originally posted by Existere
Doom, Magneto and Cassandra Nova start side by side, individual shields raised around all three. I realize this sounds a little ambiguous.

What I mean to say is:

Cassie, Mags and Doom will all be shielded by both Magneto and Doom's shields.

As far as castle defenses go, I'm hoping they don't become a decisive element of the battle. Feel free to state whether they'd be matchbreaking or not.

753
these three are low heralds? well, I think they win.

mindrape the ones that are more vulnerable to TP and sic them on the others, CM and SG I believe. Rain magic on the kryptonians.
activate the doombots and defenses of the palace, Mags and Doom would do this instantly.

exotic energy attacks on their metabolisms, massive blasting, controlling WW's tiara and BFRing tactics can do the rest.

Solidus Black
Im not so sure.

All of them move faster than the speed of thought.

If Latveria is empty, each of them individually are capable of flattening it.

All of the DC crew can hit with the force of nuclear bombs. All attacking at once is a recipe for pandemonium. As long as they are not trying to restrain Black Adam and tehy all are fighting to get at the three villains, they can win.

Latveria will however be flattened

Lord Feron
IMO Cass is going to from the gecko mind control a couple of the strongest ones on the other side.

Doom will activate defenses and send all doombots againt team2. I don't expect them to be a serious threat but after Doom Wars Doom should have lots of toys around that are dangerous.

Magneto can basically just focus on forcefields protecting the team and castle if needed.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Lord Feron
IMO Cass is going to from the gecko mind control a couple of the strongest ones on the other side.

I really don't see it being nearly that easy.

Considering both the Marvels have good TP resistance, Diana is pretty much immune to TP, and Kryptonians have decent TP resistance.

Q99
Once Diana gets a lasso on a TP controlled person, they're free as well, and lassoing Nova also prevents her from using telepathy.

The Marvel enchantment's original purpose is fighting mages, so they're at least as well off against Doom's spells as Diana is, maybe more-so. They're fairly hard to mind control too.


Team DC is too powerful and too resistant.

753
I dont recall CM being that hard to mind-control

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Q99
Once Diana gets a lasso on a TP controlled person, they're free as well, and lassoing Nova also prevents her from using telepathy.

The Marvel enchantment's original purpose is fighting mages, so they're at least as well off against Doom's spells as Diana is, maybe more-so. They're fairly hard to mind control too.


Team DC is too powerful and too resistant.
Marvels have some of the best magic resistance of any Heralds.

I remember one comic where Captain Marvel was magically turned inside out and in the next panel was all better.

Solidus Black
That wasnt magic though.

He got hit by a tesseract bomb by the void hound

Existere
I think:

Magneto stands a good chance at occupying or KO'ing Diana, and I'm sure he can handle her while being a nuisance for the others.

Cassandra and Doom are capable of double teaming the Kryptonians by keeping them either physically or mentally completely occupied, then using magic or telepathy to take them out.

After that, it would potentially be three-on-two.

bbrem123
does anybody have scans of what dooms, novas, and magnetos shield can resist?

Starscream M
Originally posted by Existere
I think:

Magneto stands a good chance at occupying or KO'ing Diana, and I'm sure he can handle her while being a nuisance for the others.

Cassandra and Doom are capable of double teaming the Kryptonians by keeping them either physically or mentally completely occupied, then using magic or telepathy to take them out.

After that, it would potentially be three-on-two. and while all that is happening, what are black adam and marvel doing...just watching?

bbrem123
Originally posted by Starscream M
and while all that is happening, what are black adam and marvel doing...just watching?

thats what im saying...5 on 3 doesnt seem to fair at all...especially those 5

Existere
Originally posted by Starscream M
and while all that is happening, what are black adam and marvel doing...just watching? You tell me, Brucey. What would they be doing?

batdude123
Apparently nothing while the others are being attacked. Right?

Starscream M
Originally posted by Existere
You tell me, Brucey. What would they be doing? they would be attacking the marvel squad, putting extreme pressure on their shields and ffs.

Magneto can take down WW imo in a 1-on-1 scenario, but even then it wouldn't be an easy fight and would severely drain him. Now, add Marvel and Adam assulting his FFs, and he has no chance of taking diana down.

I think the marvel squad stands no chance. They're outpowered AND outnumbered.

Existere
Originally posted by batdude123
Apparently nothing while the others are being attacked. Right? Not at all, I'm sure they'd do something. I'm just waiting to hear thought on what that is.

I never actually said that Marvel side would win, just speculating as to the nature of the battle.

Solidus Black
Supes, Black Adam and CM for sure can split planetary masses with single hits. Magnetos shield is not going to hold up.

The feedback when the shield pops wont be too good for him either.

Existere
Originally posted by Starscream M
they would be attacking the marvel squad, putting extreme pressure on their shields and ffs.

Magneto can take down WW imo in a 1-on-1 scenario, but even then it wouldn't be an easy fight and would severely drain him. Now, add Marvel and Adam assulting his FFs, and he has no chance of taking diana down.

I think the marvel squad stands no chance. They're outpowered AND outnumbered. Ok, let's flesh out the scenario a little:

I think, if need be, Cassandra Nova can occupy the Kryptonians by herself for at least a period of time. I think she could certainly mind control Supergirl to even the odds, but we can discuss that afterwards.

I think Doom stands a chance of taking any one person out of the battle for at least a period of time with the Crimson Bands, which magic resistance wouldn't really help dealing with.

I think Magneto has proven that he and his shields can hold their own for extended periods of time against many heralds- ultimately if his teammates are able to take two opponents out of the battle for any amount of time, and turn their attention to the remaining combatants, then this becomes their fight to win.

I think Magneto, Cassie and Doom are three top multi-taskers with top shields, and would each be individually capable of attacking multiple of the opponents at once.

Anyways, I'm just playing the devil's advocate for now, since the majority vote seems to side with DC.

753
for sure with single hits?

Existere
Originally posted by Solidus Black
Supes, Black Adam and CM for sure can split planetary masses with single hits. Magnetos shield is not going to hold up.

The feedback when the shield pops wont be too good for him either. They have no greater striking power than that which has failed to break Magneto's shield in the past.

Additionally, it's not just his shield to hold up.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Existere
They have no greater striking power than that which has failed to break Magneto's shield in the past.

Additionally, it's not just his shield to hold up. Yes, they do.

Existere

leonidas
hmm, not sure smurph. i think supergirl is the weak-link and could likely be controlled or put out temporarily by cass--maybe have kara attack clark or one of the others? can see that disrupting them, but diana coudl free her if she only had a chance. mags could occupy diana as well, i agree. i think a lot depends on whether mags can control the bracers, and whether he could maintain that control while the shields are being pummeled. doom MIGHT be able to use the bands, but i don't see them being as effective--he's not as strong as strange and holding cm OR adam would require a powerful casting. not sure what else doom would contribute being behind 2 shields.

if you bring some speed into it, they could all--combined--really work those shields over at various points in time and from a lot of different angles. i think the 3 could hold out for a long time, and do some damage--maybe even ko one or 2, but i don't think they could manage to take all 5 before they went down. interesting scenario though.

inimalist
does doom still have his time machine?

leonidas
Originally posted by inimalist
does doom still have his time machine?

wouldn't be available in this i don't think.

inimalist
ah, it would have been a huge advantage

Existere
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, not sure smurph. i think supergirl is the weak-link and could likely be controlled or put out temporarily by cass--maybe have kara attack clark or one of the others? can see that disrupting them, but diana coudl free her if she only had a chance. mags could occupy diana as well, i agree. i think a lot depends on whether mags can control the bracers, and whether he could maintain that control while the shields are being pummeled. doom MIGHT be able to use the bands, but i don't see them being as effective--he's not as strong as strange and holding cm OR adam would require a powerful casting. not sure what else doom would contribute being behind 2 shields.

if you bring some speed into it, they could all--combined--really work those shields over at various points in time and from a lot of different angles. i think the 3 could hold out for a long time, and do some damage--maybe even ko one or 2, but i don't think they could manage to take all 5 before they went down. interesting scenario though. I think I'm currently of a similar opinion. I view Kara as the weak link, with Cassandra probably being able to control Supergirl and definitely being able to mentally occupy the kryptonians until they find a way to deal with her (Cassie, that is). I think she's capable of not necessarily taking out but certainly stopping multiples of the opponents in their tracks as they battle her for mental control, provided that she's well protected.

Diana probably has the best mental defenses in the match and is also the most susceptible to manipulation via Magneto, who in turn should be capable of utilizing the environment to wreak havok but, again, not necessarily put anybody down. If Cassandra can slow people down, he may have a shot with outright blasting but...

Doom would be the most useful with magic from behind the shields, as well as whatever resources are available at Castle Doom.

I currently think Marvel goes down in the end but I wanted to gauge opinion.

Mindset
Originally posted by inimalist
ah, it would have been a huge advantage It's built into his suit.

Existere
Originally posted by inimalist
does doom still have his time machine? Doom has whatever tech he can access. Keeping in mind the thread is in-character, his options aren't otherwise limited.

inimalist
Originally posted by Mindset
It's built into his suit.

Originally posted by Existere
Doom has whatever tech he can access. Keeping in mind the thread is in-character, his options aren't otherwise limited.

there is no problem that cannot be solved with more time travel

/fact

leonidas
Originally posted by Mindset
It's built into his suit.

really? as part of his standard equipment? i just find it surprising he could time-travel at will.

leonidas
Originally posted by Existere
I think I'm currently of a similar opinion. I view Kara as the weak link, with Cassandra probably being able to control Supergirl and definitely being able to mentally occupy the kryptonians until they find a way to deal with her (Cassie, that is). I think she's capable of not necessarily taking out but certainly stopping multiples of the opponents in their tracks as they battle her for mental control, provided that she's well protected.

Diana probably has the best mental defenses in the match and is also the most susceptible to manipulation via Magneto, who in turn should be capable of utilizing the environment to wreak havok but, again, not necessarily put anybody down. If Cassandra can slow people down, he may have a shot with outright blasting but...

Doom would be the most useful with magic from behind the shields, as well as whatever resources are available at Castle Doom.

I currently think Marvel goes down in the end but I wanted to gauge opinion.

yeah, i think in the end it's the damage soak that would be too much. they have lots of fire power, and could dish out some hurt, but......... these are some of the big'uns they're facing. i think it would last for quite a while though.

753
Originally posted by Existere
I think I'm currently of a similar opinion. I view Kara as the weak link, with Cassandra probably being able to control Supergirl and definitely being able to mentally occupy the kryptonians until they find a way to deal with her (Cassie, that is). I think she's capable of not necessarily taking out but certainly stopping multiples of the opponents in their tracks as they battle her for mental control, provided that she's well protected.

Diana probably has the best mental defenses in the match and is also the most susceptible to manipulation via Magneto, who in turn should be capable of utilizing the environment to wreak havok but, again, not necessarily put anybody down. If Cassandra can slow people down, he may have a shot with outright blasting but...

Doom would be the most useful with magic from behind the shields, as well as whatever resources are available at Castle Doom.

I currently think Marvel goes down in the end but I wanted to gauge opinion. hum... nova also has intangibility going on for her, so she would be a long-lasting nuisance, but more importantly, considering her TP she can probably drop SG and or CM with mindrape

Mindset
Originally posted by leonidas
really? as part of his standard equipment? i just find it surprising he could time-travel at will. Yes. Yes. Why, he did it on panel. Well, Osborn did it because Doom's suit was locked up.

King Kandy
Casaandra is a low herald? didn't you argue that she could easily mindrape beings on the level of Onslaught?

Existere
Originally posted by King Kandy
Casaandra is a low herald? didn't you argue that she could easily mindrape beings on the level of Onslaught? Well, we all know the tier system is locked, outdated and flawed, but at the time of the tournament that's where she was placed on the list.

Note the quotation marks. I don't actually think of any of these three characters as low herald.

leonidas
Originally posted by King Kandy
Casaandra is a low herald? didn't you argue that she could easily mindrape beings on the level of Onslaught?

laughing out loud

that's why he always does well in tournaments.....

leonidas
Originally posted by Mindset
Yes. Yes. Why, he did it on panel. Well, Osborn did it because Doom's suit was locked up.

didn't see the arc where that happened and i've never seen him do it before, so i was surprised it was considered 'standard'. if it is, that makes doom even tougher to beat in a forum fight.....

Mindset
Originally posted by leonidas
didn't see the arc where that happened and i've never seen him do it before, so i was surprised it was considered 'standard'. if it is, that makes doom even tougher to beat in a forum fight..... He didn't have it before.

leonidas
ah.

Existere
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

that's why he always does well in tournaments..... slide

Omega Vision
Wouldn't time travel be like self bfr?

inimalist
Originally posted by Existere
I don't actually think of any of these three characters as low herald.

you drafted magneto mad

Existere
Originally posted by inimalist
you drafted magneto mad Well, I didn't pick drafts haermm

Oh yeah. Sorry I couldn't give you a proper match, by the way... ermm

inimalist
Originally posted by Existere
Well, I didn't pick drafts haermm

I can't find it, but I know in one of the tourney threads I questioned if mags shields might have been above the durability limit, and your response was something like "Magneto is the definition of low herald"...

which I admit, would have more pazazz if I had the quote, not some akward story

Originally posted by Existere
Oh yeah. Sorry I couldn't give you a proper match, by the way... ermm

lol, no worries at all. I got the win afterall smokin'

no, seriously, its cool. I look forward to a fairer match in the future.

Mindset
Smurph can't be trusted.

Ever.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mindset
Smurph can't be trusted.

Ever.

werd. anyone who changes their name so often pretty much has to be shifty.

Existere
Originally posted by inimalist
I can't find it, but I know in one of the tourney threads I questioned if mags shields might have been above the durability limit, and your response was something like "Magneto is the definition of low herald"...

which I admit, would have more pazazz if I had the quote, not some akward story
...ha

psycho gundam
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

that's why he always does well in tournaments..... i like reading him play you guys like fools

TricksterPriest
I'm pretty sure Supergirl has broken Saturn Queen's mind control, so Cassandra Nova might have some trouble with her.

psycho gundam
respect threadscans or it didn't happen

Q99
Originally posted by Existere
Well, we all know the tier system is locked, outdated and flawed, but at the time of the tournament that's where she was placed on the list.


Someone just needs to make a new one.

753
I've reread the stories with Nova in them. I think she blows holes through most, if not all of their minds.

Existere
Yeah, I was just rereading over my/Jake's match against Kandy and Id where we had Cassandra Nova.

While rife with my bullshit, it reminded me what a beast she is.

Originally posted by Existere
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1169/newxmen12519.jpg

And note the very first thing that Gladiator said?

"Mind armor on."

Let's see how that worked out for them...

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3665/newxmen12522.jpg

So she's actively shutting out Charles Xavier, while running through their mind armor like the Juggernaut through paper walls.

Then she continues on to finish them and make Gladiator wet himself...

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1576/newxmen12604.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4889/newxmen12605.jpg


I'm of the opinion that she's a step above anybody that the opposition has had trouble mentally dealing with in the past, with the possible exception of Wonder Woman (the details of her mental defenses I can never remember)

Anyways. Maybe Marvel takes this after all.

Prep-Man
WW's and Cap's will are strong. Didn't Billy resist the Ultra Humanites control when everyone else failed? If they get a chance to speed blitz, team DC ftw.

Existere
Originally posted by Prep-Man
WW's and Cap's will are strong. Didn't Billy resist the Ultra Humanites control when everyone else failed? If they get a chance to speed blitz, team DC ftw. Marvel starts with shields raised. All actions both sides take from the start are in character. Those are really the only stips.

As for will power, that's wonderful, but I'm willing to bet that Cassandra Nova's feats of telepathy far outweigh the Ultra Humanite's. The fact that they need to actively resist telepathy implies that a more powerful force would cause them much more strain to resist, and possibly subdue them.

We can play Ultra Humanite vs. Cassie feat for feat though and see who has the evidently higher power level.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by inimalist
I can't find it, but I know in one of the tourney threads I questioned if mags shields might have been above the durability limit, and your response was something like "Magneto is the definition of low herald"...

which I admit, would have more pazazz if I had the quote, not some akward story



lol, no worries at all. I got the win afterall smokin'

no, seriously, its cool. I look forward to a fairer match in the future.
Oh gee, intentional misrepresentation from Smurph?

No way! vin

Don't get me wrong you're a cool guy and all, but you'll say/claim pretty much anything to win a tourney. stick out tongue

Prep-Man
The feat I'm thinking of is Ultra Humanite gaining Johnny Thunderbolt's pen and transforming the world into a single mind. Nearly ALL of earth was under his control, but a select few. This was from the help of a 5-d Thunderbolt, who is light years ahead of Cassandra.

Mindset
Couldn't even control all of earth, sounds lame stick out tongue

Existere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Oh gee, intentional misrepresentation from Smurph?

No way! vin

Don't get me wrong you're a cool guy and all, but you'll say/claim pretty much anything to win a tourney. stick out tongue For readers requiring context:

Go to the search, specify to search titles of threads and type in search criteria "Smurph Omega"

Then click the only thread.

haw-som

Existere
Originally posted by Prep-Man
The feat I'm thinking of is Ultra Humanite gaining Johnny Thunderbolt's pen and transforming the world into a single mind. Nearly ALL of earth was under his control, but a select few. This was from the help of a 5-d Thunderbolt, who is light years ahead of Cassandra. Resisting the magic spell of the Thunderbolt is a completely different feat than resisting Cassandra's telepathy.

inimalist
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Oh gee, intentional misrepresentation from Smurph?

No way! vin

Don't get me wrong you're a cool guy and all, but you'll say/claim pretty much anything to win a tourney. stick out tongue

neither Giselle or Starhawk (maybe) are low hearlds

Prep-Man
billy has also resisted mr. minds global mind powers as well.

leonidas
cass is a beast. still, adam and cm are STRONG. i think she could successfully engage a couple of them, maybe ko, but i think it still comes down to the marvel side not being able to do enough damage. seeing cass try and get into adam's mind would be interesting.... i think they could resist and make her really work which would take her out of the fight. not sure doom can do much as i said, and mags coudl inflict some harm but i still don't see them being able to do enough. it would really come down to whether you think cass can actually ko a couple of them. i'm still not sure about that.....

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