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Fight in Marvel Universe. Who wins?

Show me Eternity winning a fight ANYWHERE aside from his 1966 fight vs Dormammu and then we'll talk.

The Vishanti or the Council put him in a coma like Nightmare did or one of the Skyfather's kamikazee's him like Dormammu did or either of them create cosmic consumption in reality like Bubonicus did. Fight's over.

Originally posted by zopzop
Show me Eternity winning a fight ANYWHERE aside from his 1966 fight vs Dormammu and then we'll talk.

The Vishanti or the Council put him in a coma like Nightmare did or one of the Skyfather's kamikazee's him like Dormammu did or either of them create cosmic consumption in reality like Bubonicus did. Fight's over. Vishanti had LT step in because they might have destroyed the universe... Eternity=Universe. No universe= No Eternity.

I read in Handbook profile that ONLY beings higher than Eternity were Living Tribunal and his master "One-Above-All"...is this true?

Zop might be a crazy feat fanatic -it's partially my fault actually so I apologize- but Eternity does suck.

I remember the time the Ancient One came back from the dead, and put him in a head lock. Lulz.

Eternity should win.


But we all know he won't.

the vishanti were already proven to be capable of destroying eternity, Which is why the LT had to step in

Vishanti Solo

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Eternity should win.


But we all know he won't. the one being whose jobber aura is greater than apocalypse.

Wait, aren't Vishanti and Council technically PART of Eternity?

Originally posted by Falamu
Wait, aren't Vishanti and Council technically PART of Eternity? no but lord chaos and master order live in there pocket dimension

zop can post the scans

nonono

NO mystical entity can top Eternity. He is the strongest being who fits into that category.

Originally posted by Falamu
Wait, aren't Vishanti and Council technically PART of Eternity?

The Vishanti definitely are NOT part of Eternity (unless there has been a retcon).

In Silver Surfer v3 #31, the LT was explaining reality to the Surfer. Apparently Order/Chaos/In-betweener's home plane is another universe that belongs to the Vishanti.

I always understood that Vishanti were a separate entity from anything else like Cytorrak.

Originally posted by King Kandy
nonono

NO mystical entity can top Eternity. He is the strongest being who fits into that category. really? So you are ignoring on panel statements that the vishanti can destroy eternity?

not only that but the LT said it himself

Living Tribunal explained it like this
Eternity Galactus and Death are forces of nature in the world of man.
Lord Chaos Master Order and the In betweener are the forces in the world of magic.

Eternity was at his most powerful when he encompassed all of the universe. As Marvel created more abstracts Eternity covered less and less things in the universe.

Eternity has no reign over the magical side of the universe while the magical side can freely crossover and effect man's universe.

Eternity really isn't going to beat any top tier magical entity, which is why you see him lose to them so often.

Originally posted by King Kandy
nonono

NO mystical entity can top Eternity. He is the strongest being who fits into that category. Realistically? Hell no. He shouldn't lose like this.

But........he usually finds a way. srug


Originally posted by Uriel005
the one being whose jobber aura is greater than apocalypse.

LEAVE POCCY OUT OF THIS! durfist

In the old marvel handbook the vishanti were above everyone but the LT. Third was C and O and Eternity was fourth. I doubt that's still the case, but they are still above Eternity. C and O aren't. Vishanti beats him with some effort.

Originally posted by long pig
In the old marvel handbook the vishanti were above everyone but the LT. Third was C and O and Eternity was fourth. I doubt that's still the case, but they are still above Eternity. C and O aren't. Vishanti beats him with some effort.

I meant IB isn't above EternitY.

Originally posted by long pig
In the old marvel handbook the vishanti were above everyone but the LT. Third was C and O and Eternity was fourth. I doubt that's still the case, but they are still above Eternity. C and O aren't. Vishanti beats him with some effort.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Chaos and Order so high on an early list since in their earliest Starlin portrayals they actually encompassed a lot of the concepts that are now attributed to Eternity himself. For instance, they were seen as the counterforce to Death in his Warlock run, which is traditionally Eternity's role.

Man, they just need to blow EVERYTHING in Marvel up and start over...

The inconsistencies and illogic is so bad sometimes that it can make you ill...

Logically Eternity should spite them, but since logic and consistency have no place in the Marvel Universe, Eternity will lose this fight hands down...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Man, they just need to blow EVERYTHING in Marvel up and start over...

The inconsistencies and illogic is so bad sometimes that it can make you ill...

Logically Eternity should spite them, but since logic and consistency have no place in the Marvel Universe, Eternity will lose this fight hands down...

I remember in Fantastic Four Annual #23, when Kubik and Kosmos were exploring the cosmic hierarchy of Marvel, they claimed Vishanti was on level beyond Mangog, Overmind, and the Uni-Mind, as well as High Evolutionary, Stranger and Watchers, and on a scale of power to rival Eon and the Celestials, as well as being ranked among "the forces of evolutionary change", enemies of entropy and Death.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8801/annualdaysoffutureprese.jpg

I think the whole "Eternity = Jobber" thing is overrated.

He is a jobber in the most literal sense, because the writers usually only include him in a story so that he can be defeated to show off the new villain. No simpler way to show that a character is above the universe than to have him beat the embodiment of it.

However, I don't think his feats are all that bad. When he loses, its usually to extremely powerful characters who obviously should be the winners. There are only a couple cases where he lost against people who he should have won.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think the whole "Eternity = Jobber" thing is overrated.

He is a jobber in the most literal sense, because the writers usually only include him in a story so that he can be defeated to show off the new villain. No simpler way to show that a character is above the universe than to have him beat the embodiment of it.

However, I don't think his feats are all that bad. When he loses, its usually to extremely powerful characters who obviously should be the winners. There are only a couple cases where he lost against people who he should have won.

KK what's his highest on panel showing of power? I only remember him going all out (according to Thanos) and merely blowing up a planet.

Death has WAY WAY WAY better on panel feats both from waaaay back and currently (Thanos Imperative). I think I can dig up some nice Infinity and Oblivion feats too.

Eternity sees to be the odd man out.

Originally posted by zopzop
KK what's his highest on panel showing of power? I only remember him going all out (according to Thanos) and merely blowing up a planet.

Death has WAY WAY WAY better on panel feats both from waaaay back and currently (Thanos Imperative). I think I can dig up some nice Infinity and Oblivion feats too.

Eternity sees to be the odd man out. I Eternity is the ultimate apathetic creation in Marvel. He just don't give a shit.

Originally posted by Falamu
I remember in Fantastic Four Annual #23, when Kubik and Kosmos were exploring the cosmic hierarchy of Marvel, they claimed Vishanti was on level beyond Mangog, Overmind, and the Uni-Mind, as well as High Evolutionary, Stranger and Watchers, and on a scale of power to rival Eon and the Celestials, as well as being ranked among "the forces of evolutionary change", enemies of entropy and Death.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8801/annualdaysoffutureprese.jpg

do you have the rest of this where cubic explores the hierarchy of the elder gods beings like chthon?

Originally posted by zopzop
KK what's his highest on panel showing of power? I only remember him going all out (according to Thanos) and merely blowing up a planet.

Death has WAY WAY WAY better on panel feats both from waaaay back and currently (Thanos Imperative). I think I can dig up some nice Infinity and Oblivion feats too.

Eternity sees to be the odd man out.
He "merely" blew up a planet? What do you expect to happen? He was attacking Thanos not "the galaxy Thanos is in".

Eternity is stronger, as we see in IG he far surpasses most abstracts... and it should be obvious he is equal to Infinity since they were designed explicitly with that concept in mind.

Eternity spawning the Celestials is his best feat. His dreams becoming reality is his most useful ability especially considering the beings he created have better feats then him.
Other then that hes pretty open to manipulation of any kind.

The real problem with his character is that he's got no will... he falls for entrancement easily and acts like a petulant baby in most of his appearances. I really blame Starlin for this portrayal becoming the default.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He "merely" blew up a planet? What do you expect to happen? He was attacking Thanos not "the galaxy Thanos is in".

Eternity is stronger, as we see in IG he far surpasses most abstracts... and it should be obvious he is equal to Infinity since they were designed explicitly with that concept in mind.

If this was true then why'd the entire planet blow up, if he was "only" attacking Thanos? Thanos himself said, Eternity even threatened Thanos with total annihilation. Yet for all that, one measly planet was destroyed.

Death has better on panel feats. In Thanos Imperative she literally wiped out a universe, destroyed the Galactus Engine that was giving fits to Galactus/the Celestials/Aegis/Teneberous, the Old Ones, and the blast was so powerful it was felt in 616 reality.

Previously, Grandmaster was using Death's powers to create 5 "Null Bombs" each capable of destroying 1/5 of the universe.

Originally posted by zopzop
If this was true then why'd the entire planet blow up, if he was "only" attacking Thanos? Thanos himself said, Eternity even threatened Thanos with total annihilation. Yet for all that, one measly planet was destroyed.

Death has better on panel feats. In Thanos Imperative she literally wiped out a universe, destroyed the Galactus Engine that was giving fits to Galactus/the Celestials/Aegis/Teneberous, the Old Ones, and the blast was so powerful it was felt in 616 reality.

Previously, Grandmaster was using Death's powers to create 5 "Null Bombs" each capable of destroying 1/5 of the universe.
I can't recall any collateral damage of note in the fight between SF Darkseid and the Source Entity. The fact that planets and galaxies weren't destroyed doesn't mean they were less than Skyfather or Herald. Just that collateral damage wasn't on the writer's mind.

Eternity is trying to save the Universe by stopping Thanos, what could he possibly gain from wiping out a Galaxy or more?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I can't recall any collateral damage of note in the fight between SF Darkseid and the Source Entity. The fact that planets and galaxies weren't destroyed doesn't mean they were less than Skyfather or Herald. Just that collateral damage wasn't on the writer's mind.

Eternity is trying to save the Universe by stopping Thanos, what could he possibly gain from wiping out a Galaxy or more?

There are tens of thousands (if not millions) of galaxies in the universe. That's no excuse. If Thanos was as big a threat as Eternity believed him to be wiping out a solar system or galaxy to make sure he's dead isn't too big a sacrifice.

During the IG Saga the Cosmic Pantheon wiped out entire solar systems in their war with Thanos.

There is no saving Eternity from humiliation.

Originally posted by zopzop
There are tens of thousands (if not millions) of galaxies in the universe. That's no excuse. If Thanos was as big a threat as Eternity believed him to be wiping out a solar system or galaxy to make sure he's dead isn't too big a sacrifice.

During the IG Saga the Cosmic Pantheon wiped out entire solar systems in their war with Thanos.

There is no saving Eternity from humiliation.
You seem to be under the impression that AOE=power every time.

For an example of why that isn't always true for Abstracts or others just look at Superman's HV. In terms of AOE its generally=to Cyclops Optic Blast more or less. But any sane person can tell that it's much, much, much more powerful.

You really need to get out of this asinine habit of only paying attention to showings of raw destructive power to determine how powerful someone is.

I mean you can't go by AOE all the time thats just stupid.

No one doubts that Molecule Man's blast against the Beyonder couldn't have destroyed a million universes even though the room they remained in was largely intact. Sometimes people concentrate their power in ways that make the brunt of their power focus solely on their target and in that case AOE would be a nonfactor.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You seem to be under the impression that AOE=power every time.

For an example of why that isn't always true for Abstracts or others just look at Superman's HV. In terms of AOE its generally=to Cyclops Optic Blast more or less. But any sane person can tell that it's much, much, much more powerful.

You really need to get out of this asinine habit of only paying attention to showings of raw destructive power to determine how powerful someone is.

Wrong. Your analogy fails because we've seen Superman's heat vision do things Cyclops' optic blast isn't capable of : sealing holes in reality, reigniting suns, etc... Those and other examples of ON PANEL displays of power tell us heat vision > optic blast by many orders of magnitude.

Aside from on panel displays of power (direct attacks, collateral damage, etc..) there's fights, Eternity has trash showings in both those categories.

Death on the other hand has stupendous on panel displays of power and she's never been beaten by the likes of Nightmare. The Inbetweener who humiliated her is another story, he seems to exist outside all norms. And Nightmare is NO Inbetweener.

Originally posted by SasuOna
I mean you can't go by AOE all the time thats just stupid.

No one doubts that Molecule Man's blast against the Beyonder couldn't have destroyed a million universes even though the room they remained in was largely intact. Sometimes people concentrate their power in ways that make the brunt of their power focus solely on their target and in that case AOE would be a nonfactor.

IF that scene wasn't backed up by anything else you'd have a point. But Beyonder and MM were so far beyond the other beings in the multiverse that you had abstracts begging them to either help (MM) or stop doing what he was doing (Beyonder).

And BTW, when Eternity fought Thanos w/ IG it was destroying way more than a mere planet.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Vishanti Solo the vishanti are a group of three beings

Eternity for the win.

Well, didn't Eternity's power rival Mikaboshi's?

They were supposed to be equal and opposite... not that that helps much since Chaos King is even more of a jobber than Eternity.

chaos king never jobbed....

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
chaos king never jobbed.... Essentially got beaten by Amadeus Cho... That is all.

Eternity should win..

MILE FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES GOD.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Essentially got beaten by Amadeus Cho... That is all. no he didnt, amadeus just planned what they should do then ,galactus used all the power cosmic(which almost killed him) to create a portal large enough to bfr him through

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
no he didnt, amadeus just planned what they should do then ,galactus used all the power cosmic(which almost killed him) to create a portal large enough to bfr him through For someone with cosmic awareness like CK he really should never get outplanned by anyone.

Originally posted by Uriel005
For someone with cosmic awareness like CK he really should never get outplanned by anyone.

Who says CK had cosmic awareness? Remember, the more he consumed, the less he could see, even Athena said so.

Originally posted by King Kandy
They were supposed to be equal and opposite... not that that helps much since Chaos King is even more of a jobber than Eternity.
That is funny that a lot of Chaos King's forum rep comes from him being declared Eternity's opposite...and now people are arguing Eternity is great because he's Chaos King's opposite.

Full circle eh?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
That is funny that a lot of Chaos King's forum rep comes from him being declared Eternity's opposite...and now people are arguing Eternity is great because he's Chaos King's opposite.

Full circle eh? that's circular bible logic. God says it is true and therefore it is. And what God says is true because the bible says so.... I'm seeing a pattern with these higher beings here.

Originally posted by Uriel005
For someone with cosmic awareness like CK he really should never get outplanned by anyone.

CK was being blinded by his own growing darkness the more he consumed.Athena stated this.Even Pele.This was a plot device in order for CK to be sent in the continuum.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/CKisblindedbyhisgrowingdarkness.jpg?t=1302669703

Amadeus's plan wouldn't work if CK wasn't blinded.

Originally posted by Falamu
Who says CK had cosmic awareness? Remember, the more he consumed, the less he could see, even Athena said so.



Originally posted by Omega Vision
That is funny that a lot of Chaos King's forum rep comes from him being declared Eternity's opposite...and now people are arguing Eternity is great because he's Chaos King's opposite.

Full circle eh?

No one here is declaring Eternity is great because of CK.CK was declared by Eternity as a dark half and is a villain.So CK is portrayed more dangerous(Maybe even more powerful) than Eternity.Even the Council Elite is helpless against CK.And he made Death run away.

But back on topic.Eternity is feared by Atum/Demogorge.And Atum/Demogorge is feared by the Council Elite.So Eternity>Demogorge>CE.Don't know about the Vishanti though.

Originally posted by Igniz
But back on topic.Eternity is feared by Atum/Demogorge.And Atum/Demogorge is feared by the Council Elite.So Eternity>Demogorge>CE.Don't know about the Vishanti though.

The only problem is, he doesn't fear Eternity as in "he fears Eternity's power" he fears Eternity as in he fears living forever aka Eternity. I'll post the scan when I get the chance.

Originally posted by zopzop
The only problem is, he doesn't fear Eternity as in "he fears Eternity's power" he fears Eternity as in he fears living forever aka Eternity. I'll post the scan when I get the chance.

Eternity may be vulnerable to magic, though, right? So there's a chance the Council and Vishanti, if combining all their powers, COULD actually defeat him.

But aren't they still part of the Earth-616 reality, since their realms are only pocket dimensions very close and connected to it? So wouldn't that make them technically part of Eternity still?

Originally posted by Falamu
Eternity may be vulnerable to magic, though, right? So there's a chance the Council and Vishanti, if combining all their powers, COULD actually defeat him.
Eternity is a magical entity. Magic is one of his things. He is better at it than anyone.

You know when people talk about death fleeing the realm... I sometimes wonder about that. I mean at the same time you have the events of annihilation going on and captain marvel and crew going after the avatar of death that is thanos to get at her... I sometimes wonder if speaking of death fleeing the realm refers directly to the chaos king or the annihilation event.

So some people are claiming vishanti > eternity...
And that eternity = chaos king....

Thus vishanti are greater than chaos king?

Let's see where that train of that would lead us.

Originally posted by rotiart
So some people are claiming vishanti > eternity...
And that eternity = chaos king....

Thus vishanti are greater than chaos king?

Let's see where that train of that would lead us. no one is really claiming anything, its a fact that the LT ineterved in a battle the vishanti were having with an Omniversal parasite because it was going to Destroy Eternity .

also in the same arc he called the vishanti the most powerful mystical entities in the universe, lord chaos, master order and inbetweener all live in within vishantis realm

kubic has stated the vishanti were well above them in power

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the vishanti were already proven to be capable of destroying eternity, Which is why the LT had to step in

Vishanti Solo Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
really? So you are ignoring on panel statements that the vishanti can destroy eternity?

not only that but the LT said it himself

Originally posted by rotiart
You know when people talk about death fleeing the realm... I sometimes wonder about that. I mean at the same time you have the events of annihilation going on and captain marvel and crew going after the avatar of death that is thanos to get at her... I sometimes wonder if speaking of death fleeing the realm refers directly to the chaos king or the annihilation event.

Death running away because of the Chaos King(CW:Incredible Hulks#620).

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/FlashbackofDeathrunningaway.jpg?t=1303206978

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Eternity should win.


But we all know he won't.

Originally posted by Black bolt z

Originally posted by Igniz
Death running away because of the Chaos King(CW:Incredible Hulks#620).

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/FlashbackofDeathrunningaway.jpg?t=1303206978

Thanks for that.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956247_Defenders_092-04.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956249_Defenders_092-05.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956250_Defenders_092-06.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956252_Defenders_092-22.jpg

Originally posted by guy222
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956247_Defenders_092-04.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956249_Defenders_092-05.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956250_Defenders_092-06.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8956252_Defenders_092-22.jpg
I've always wanted to read that arc.

its pretty good