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Judging from the tourney discussion thread, I think Herald class characters would probably generate more interest. Instead of allowing High Heralds, though, if you wanted to keep things from going into who can draft the most powerful guys first, you could cap things off at Mid-Herald? At least that's my suggestion for the power cap.

As far as the tourney itself, it looks pretty solid for the rules. I do like the concept of "hiding" drafts by usernames as to build up a suspense, especially if people go with random characters. I assume we would PM you with our drafts in a first come, first serve basis and you would post the character drafted for us to see? Or did I misintepret this?

I consider myself an expert in comics and anime/manga; i believe I could be your consultant for that.

I too, offer my services as a consultant, and as a judge. Is this mixed genre?

Pretty interesting thing. I already have some AMAZING ideas. Out out three characters I'm planning to draft two are obscure newcomers and only one was drafted once in Illadelph's tourney before.

In response to Jake, I feel like low herald would serve as the nicest compromise and would yield perhaps the most unknown characters of any tier after street and low meta.

Ultimately it's up to inmalist though.

Also: given that we're trying to embrace the kind of specialized niche knowledge that any one poster might not possess, could we consider making this a team tournament? Certainly two posters know more unknowns than a single poster and could better work to find a theme.

EDIT: Just saw your thoughts on teams after I wrote this, ini. Fair enough and generating interest is always an obstacle.

yeah man, i want a teammate also

i smell a win

Any idea when you're planning on running this inimalist?
I might be up for it but depends on the time due to exams and such
Interesting and concept with the themes and obscure characters though .

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Judging from the tourney discussion thread, I think Herald class characters would probably generate more interest. Instead of allowing High Heralds, though, if you wanted to keep things from going into who can draft the most powerful guys first, you could cap things off at Mid-Herald? At least that's my suggestion for the power cap.

my only real worry is that, the more powerful the limit, the more powerful the characters who can be snuck in above that, and the more likely we get into debates where "I crushed the universe first", "no, I did"...

I have no real problem with low-mid herald though, especially if that is what people want.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I assume we would PM you with our drafts in a first come, first serve basis and you would post the character drafted for us to see? Or did I misintepret this?

yes, exactly. There would be "draft threads" where people can discuss the choices, whether they are over the limits or whether they are "unused", etc.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I consider myself an expert in comics and anime/manga; i believe I could be your consultant for that.

ok, cool. That was sort of the issue I had with mixed genre dealt with

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I too, offer my services as a consultant, and as a judge. Is this mixed genre?

cool, I've got you as a judge/consultant. Yes, it is now mixed genre

Originally posted by Existere
In response to Jake, I feel like low herald would serve as the nicest compromise and would yield perhaps the most unknown characters of any tier after street and low meta.

Ultimately it's up to inmalist though.

no, it seems I am the one out of step with what people are looking for. Mid-Herald for now, as I see no real need to comprimise for lower characters if people don't want them. I might have to reconsider time/reality manip though... I do like having it in...

Originally posted by Existere
Also: given that we're trying to embrace the kind of specialized niche knowledge that any one poster might not possess, could we consider making this a team tournament? Certainly two posters know more unknowns than a single poster and could better work to find a theme.

EDIT: Just saw your thoughts on teams after I wrote this, ini. Fair enough and generating interest is always an obstacle.

I don't have anything against teams at all. I might try to work in some advantage for not having a team (maybe like 5 more min of prep, but that is hardly an advantage to someone already going theme/unknown...), but ultimately, I don't see a 2 v 1 as really lopsided, most posters here can handle their own in a debate.

How about this, teams are open for registration, and if your participation is dependant on a team, for sure, find a team and participate. Just keep in mind, that is less people who might be involved in total, and less chance we actually get this going.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah man, i want a teammate also

settled.

I'll try to revise the rules post shortly, maybe wait for a couple more people to weigh in.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Pretty interesting thing. I already have some AMAZING ideas. Out out three characters I'm planning to draft two are obscure newcomers and only one was drafted once in Illadelph's tourney before.

nice

I will mark you down as interested then

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Any idea when you're planning on running this inimalist?
I might be up for it but depends on the time due to exams and such
Interesting and concept with the themes and obscure characters though .

my goal is to try and strike while the iron is hot. People seem interested now, so asap pretty much.

I get exams and that, but until the real matches begin, the only effort required would be to come up with draft choices. Certainly not something that requires no effort, but it isn't a full tournament post. I'd hope drafts would take less than 2-3 weeks... oh god i hope....

yay.

we should get a list of interested participants and then someone should pm me to be their partner.

I've already got an interesting themed team with two newcomers planned. I don't think that this thing needs to be mixed genre cause that will be a damn cheap exploit of "never used in a tourney" - we only had a handful of ones on this level, and dude who drafts say Char Aznable, Amuro Ray and Lalah Sune as "psychic mobile suit pilots" team gets the insta-bonus for creativity and characters never drafted?

I think that shall be comics only, high meta stuff. That way the creativity bonuses will have more worth.

Sorry, but as the Russian joke goes "either you remove the cross or you put on the pants"
A tournament where mixed genre is allowed and extra prep time is given for the characters never drafted before gives a large advantage to mixed genre users - simply because there were what... three mixed genre tourneys to date, two on low meta cap and one unfinished.

Or an innovative idea that may remove concerns listed above. As the way for a bonus for new characters allow amalgams (1 never drafted one + 1 another character) but the overall power of amalgam may not exceed low herald (with the cap for single characters somewhere inbetween low herald-high meta)...

thats an excellent point actually...

how about, non-comic characters don't count toward individual "never used" bonuses, but you can still get the additional +5 min if all of your characters are never-used non-comic.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Or an innovative idea that may remove concerns listed above. As the way for a bonus for new characters allow amalgams (1 never drafted one + 1 another character) but the overall power of amalgam may not exceed low herald (with the cap for single characters somewhere inbetween low herald-high meta)...

I'm not a fan of amalgams, so I'd rather no go that direction

and selecting non-comic characters is definately in the spirit of the "use under-used characters", but I do see the logic in more popular non-comic characters still being "underused" when they really aren't...

but then, what about popular comic characters that might never have been used in a tournement?

hmmm..

Sounds pretty cool, then! Low-Mid Herald is the definite power cap then, then? I think Meta on up to Low/Mid Herald would be cool; I do agree High Heralds would bring in a bunch of the universal busting/wTF worthy feats, so I can live with excluding them. I'm game for participating in the tourny as a contestant, then.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8474873#post8474873

You seem to have a grasp on things, but there's that for reference. In particular, the loopholes and neutering sections have seemed the most helpful to past judges.

As always, I'm willing to lend my name to a tag-team while doing none of the actual work. Sadly, this is high meta where I'd have absurd amounts of fun, but time is my bane atm.

Put me down as a judge.

I feel we should ban or come down very hard on soul manipulation or spirit based attacks. It's a huge can of worms and possibly an "I-Win" button at this level.

We can let some in, sure, but it's a subject I personally am coming down like a sledgehammer on. Example, JJBA stands. If you draft one, I will smash you like a piledriver if you try to sneak in someone who's over the limit.

Though, with a low to mid herald limit, there's a ton of sneaky picks to be had, so have fun.

Which tactics do you feel do you feel are too far? You don't have to make specific examples if you don't feel like outing specific characters right away, but what in general are you looking at?

I can't really discuss that without revealing some incredibly broken picks. But suffice to say, there's some very powerful characters with tricks that are unique or hard to defend against in anime/manga. Some of them are one trick ponies, but the one trick is very good.

For an example; a few years ago during one of Delph's tournaments. I picked up someone named Jotaro Kujo. Look him up. I had to use some very sneaky reasoning and forfeit rights to use certain feats to get him in. I WILL be looking for people trying to do that. So if you want to try something like I did, you'll have to convince me.

And given that I am the forum champion of sneaking dubious picks into tournaments semi-legally, , you're welcome to try. I did try to get the Worlogog in prep, afterall. flirt So I have a fair idea what to look for.

Fair enough. I've not done anything sneaky besides sneak in Hank Henshaw with rings and Wonder Woman with full gear in a High Herald Tournament lol

Yeah....I wouldn't let you get away with that. durwink

Seriously, look up that tournament and Jotaro Kujo. Hell, try looking up Kujo to find it.

Hank with rings is a good one though if you get it approved. GL powers for all! Suddenly, like, Batman becomes a valid pick. That kind of "he shouldn't belong here but I'm making him" stuff always amused me to no end.

Tech is your biggest worry in a high meta tourney though, inamilist. Reed + a technomorph and maybe a telepath, and you're about 30 seconds of prep away from universe-busting battles.

Agreed, for once. I'll try not to kill creativity too much.

I remember using Joker briefly in delph's "change characters every round" high meta tourney. Everyone was like "**** it's the Joker. What's Digi doing with him?!" I assume they were prepping against some sort of Joker-insanity-to-empathic-attack route (which, admittedly, sounds quite awesome now that I think about it). Anyway, it was a complete bluff, entirely to mess with everyone. I had some hearty laughs though, and hopefully wasted a few opponents' time.

That's definitely one of the reasons I picked Joker last time I did. Hell, it was the same tournament that I grabbed Jotaro for. "Joker Platinum."

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And given that I am the forum champion of sneaking dubious picks into tournaments semi-legally, , you're welcome to try. I did try to get the Worlogog in prep, afterall. flirt

You are forum champ of what?

You heard me. dur

This independent analysis would disagree with you.

Originally posted by Digi
The Lists: Entry #7
Most Creative Participant: Blair Wind
Why: He routinely sets the high-water mark for inventive strategies, is always a threat to win, and while some may complain that he finds "loopholes," others simply see it as finding what is the most powerful legal strategy in any given tournament.



Anyway, on topic, I think adding in underused characters with "prizes" is an interesting play. I have a few characters in mind that might be useful, though I may just give that information out to anyone who PM's me wanting characters. I can be a resource for that at the least, just shoot me a PM.

Edit: Prep time can go up to 35 minutes with a theme/never used comic characters and 30 minutes theme/never used manga characters?

Manga characters will be exempt from the bonus 5 minutes rule. Getting an all manga team would give you only 5 minutes extra.

Considering my opinion of Digi, I'll take that with a grain of salt. Difference is, people like you better and you get away with your shit.

All picks should be sent to the judges to be cleared prior to drafting, hopefully. I'd rather not have to strike down picks with the banhammer.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I feel we should ban or come down very hard on soul manipulation or spirit based attacks. It's a huge can of worms and possibly an "I-Win" button at this level.

A spirit attack that a character has a reasonable chance to block against would be fine.

Some rare form of spirit energy that seems to really only exist in a manga universe would be banned anyways, same with unblockable spirit attacks. Chi or similar would be acceptable, as it is something you could reasonably expect to see in the fight.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Though, with a low to mid herald limit, there's a ton of sneaky picks to be had, so have fun.

I'm hoping to leave it open enough that we get some of those picks. It is the intent

Originally posted by Digi
Tech is your biggest worry in a high meta tourney though, inamilist. Reed + a technomorph and maybe a telepath, and you're about 30 seconds of prep away from universe-busting battles.

the limit is mid-high herald

tech that would bust the universe would violate the spirit of the rules and would be banned already. That much power is clearly above the limits. No tech can be more powerful than the limits.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
All picks should be sent to the judges to be cleared prior to drafting, hopefully. I'd rather not have to strike down picks with the banhammer.

drafting will be done in public, though anonymously. All fourm members have the ability to raise concerns with each draft, and in the end, final say is mine.

but ya, if there is a draft that you see is clearly above the limit, PLEASE banhammer it!

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Edit: Prep time can go up to 35 minutes with a theme/never used comic characters and 30 minutes theme/never used manga characters?

Prep is 5 min regardless, unless a player is penalized for missing a draft, then they have no prep.

Drafting all three characters from the same theme earns and additional 15 min of prep

Drafting characters that have never been used gives you 5 min per character, and an additional 5 if all of your unused characters are from comics.

So, with a theme you have 20, with a theme and non-comic characters you can have between 25-35 if there are 1-3 unused characters, and with all comic characters that have never been used before, you can have and additional 5 min, maxing at 40. With no theme, it would be 10-20 min with non-comic characters, and a max of 25 with comic characters

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Manga characters will be exempt from the bonus 5 minutes rule. Getting an all manga team would give you only 5 minutes extra.

I flipped it around, because the point of the tournament was to promote never used characters, which manga and other forms of non-comics fit. I removed the "all three unused" bonus if any characters are from a non-comic source, because it is much easier to find them than comic characters.

Originally posted by Digi
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8474873#post8474873

You seem to have a grasp on things, but there's that for reference. In particular, the loopholes and neutering sections have seemed the most helpful to past judges.

some interesting stuff, I will take it into acount when I do the next rewrite

Originally posted by Digi
As always, I'm willing to lend my name to a tag-team while doing none of the actual work. Sadly, this is high meta where I'd have absurd amounts of fun, but time is my bane atm.

you should get in touch with Existere

Originally posted by Digi
Put me down as a judge.

done

Originally posted by inimalist
the limit is mid-high herald


the limit is low-mid herald, maximum level of Magneto.

ugh, its late...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough. I've not done anything sneaky besides sneak in Hank Henshaw with rings and Wonder Woman with full gear in a High Herald Tournament lol What? They aren't high herald? haermm

On that note, Jake and I will be entering this shindig as a team.

If you all choose to forfeit now, we understand.

if i can't play with smurph i'm out.ermm

d'awww....

yeah, nice excuse. betting you already have your drafts lined up in a team with Digi.

not this time. digi and i had fun though. my utter disdain of anime and manga shall keep me from entering this. sounds interesting though. i'll be curious to see how many enter.

one tiny little word of advice if i may to inimal--open time limits on matches NEVER work. far better to set a limit of posts and a timeframe in which to post. 1 week or 7 posts, for example. it would also keep teams from overwhelming individuals with blitz posts, and it keeps the tourney moving along. delays in judging and long matches inevitably lead to the death of a tournament. judges should also be given a timelimit in which to post judgements. in my tourney, the judges were exceptional at getting judgements in and it kept the tourney rolling. i had about 15-20 individuals lined up to judge, so rotating them helped a lot and they didn't mind getting votes in promptly.

just saying.

I think keeping the clause about allowing time and probability manipulation in forms beyond a direct attack is really interesting.

I'm trying to decide whether I think it's particularly broken, but it certainly lends itself to this idea of trying out new characters and all that.

Yay fresh ideas.

Originally posted by Digi
I remember using Joker briefly in delph's "change characters every round" high meta tourney. Everyone was like "**** it's the Joker. What's Digi doing with him?!" I assume they were prepping against some sort of Joker-insanity-to-empathic-attack route (which, admittedly, sounds quite awesome now that I think about it). Anyway, it was a complete bluff, entirely to mess with everyone. I had some hearty laughs though, and hopefully wasted a few opponents' time.



Sign me up as a judge.

I don't think leo and I would work well together at this point. We'd probably just try to give the work to the other, then show up without a writeup and some threats to ban judges if they didn't vote for us.

I have like 2-3 high metas I'd adore using, but no coherent plan. My fanboy desire to get them involved would be overwhelming, and I'd end up losing to a good power mesh or somesuch. At best I'd work well as "here's an awesome last character" to a partnership that already has a over-arching strategy, thus my willingness to be in a duo with a sufficiently awesome starter plan.

And wait, Iron Man was the OP's limit, then in said Magneto. Which is it?

Originally posted by Black bolt z


Sign me up as a judge.

I'm envisioning a Joker/Psycho Man team-up now. It would be hilarious. Counterable, certainly, but fun.

Originally posted by Digi
And wait, Iron Man was the OP's limit, then in said Magneto. Which is it?

Magneto

more people seemed to want higher level characters...

though, I do only have 2 contestants at this point...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Sign me up as a judge.

done

Originally posted by Existere
I'm trying to decide whether I think it's particularly broken, but it certainly lends itself to this idea of trying out new characters and all that.

now that the limit is herald, I might have to rethink this, because those types of powers aren't as rare and they are much more refined. It might be broken, but it opens up a type of break for everyone, which unfortunatly might lead to "reality beats time" or other circular arguments...

I do want to keep them in... I'll have an updated rules post sometime today for sure to clarify everything

Originally posted by Existere
Yay fresh ideas.

ya, if nothing else, it will be fun to see people come up with insane time and reality warping strategies

Originally posted by Digi
I don't think leo and I would work well together at this point. We'd probably just try to give the work to the other, then show up without a writeup and some threats to ban judges if they didn't vote for us.

if it's not broke......

EDIT nvrmind

We need to get more interested parties and pimp this sucka out.

I'm watching an exam ATM, as someone pointed out quite astutely, I should advertise in kmc's other vs sections... or, at least the anime ones.

EDIT: after the exam I will do this

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
We need to get more interested parties and pimp this sucka out.



I told inimalist to go market it out to the other sections. Anyone have connections in the anime & anime vs sections? After inimalist posts the thread we should still PM people and get them involved.

Bah. Low herald? High meta ftw. At least it saves that level for a future tourney that I can enter when I'm less strapped for time.

Originally posted by Digi
Bah. Low herald? High meta ftw. At least it saves that level for a future tourney that I can enter when I'm less strapped for time.

Yeah, it's all about you, isn't it?













































































Dick. uhuh

Heh. He's actually doing me a favor. I either would've entered and not been able to commit myself sufficiently, or wouldn't have and would've missed competing. Low herald takes the angst out of it for me. I'm thrilled to just be a judge now.

And yes, I'm super important.

Contestants:

- Charlotte DeBel
- JakeTheBank & Existere

Judges:

- TricksterPriest
- Digi
- Black bolt z

Non-Comic Consultants:

- King Kandy
- TricksterPriest

I have a concern. Blair wind once used spot in a tournament. Spot has the option of remaining in his spot dimension. Would his type of movement be banned?

If a contestant says or tries to prove something that was countered by their opponent in the match, but that I know from my personal comic knowledge that their characters cannot do, can I call them on it as part of my judging, or do I try and ignore it?

Also, what is the hard cap? Prep or otherwise? Magneto is the pick cap, what's the prep/amalgamation/amping/etc cap?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I have a concern. Blair wind once used spot in a tournament. Spot has the option of remaining in his spot dimension. Would his type of movement be banned?


Well, precedent is both yes and no. I wasn't allowed to, Digi was.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I have a concern. Blair wind once used spot in a tournament. Spot has the option of remaining in his spot dimension. Would his type of movement be banned?

dimensional travel is banned with the exception of teleportation that relies on it. Spot would be allowed to teleport, or say, send an opponent's attack into another dimension, but travel to that dimension is already banned.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If a contestant says or tries to prove something that was countered by their opponent in the match, but that I know from my personal comic knowledge that their characters cannot do, can I call them on it as part of my judging, or do I try and ignore it?

interesting, let me ponder...

My initial reaction would be to say you are only to judge things that can be backed up with scans, as "I cant find scans" is hardly a good excuse anymore.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Also, what is the hard cap? Prep or otherwise? Magneto is the pick cap, what's the prep/amalgamation/amping/etc cap?

Around "magneto" level. A specific hard cap is probably not really definable, however, my thoughts are that a clear violation would be obvious

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Well, precedent is both yes and no. I wasn't allowed to, Digi was.



I don't remember that being a point that won me the tourney though. And I'd actually forgotten you didn't have the same luxury. Good times.

Perhaps I was not clear on the Spot issue. He moves through a different dimension to teleport. It's not like Nightcrawler's just passing through. I think we should ban Spot's type of movement. Spot has the option of remaining indefinitely in his dimension, and I feel his use of teleportation in that manner violates the spirit of the BFR rule.

2nd concern: So what's your ruling? If someone drafted say, random anime character and says they do this with a scan or feat, but there are extenuating circumstances they aren't saying or don't know about, but their opponent does not call them on it, may I? Or they claim something I flatout know they can't do. Can I use my personal knowledge in making a judgement call? It's not so much an issue of scans as it's the issue of my being allowed to use my personal knowledge of what characters are capable of in disputing BS claims.

3rd: Please elaborate on a clear violation.

Originally posted by Digi


I don't remember that being a point that won me the tourney though. And I'd actually forgotten you didn't have the same luxury. Good times.



No, what lost me the match was my stupidity. I even got the judges (after the match through PM's) to conceded that if I had done one (very small) strategic step differently, they would have voted my way. Too bad the idea occurred to me a literal day after the match - sort of like our team match DC and I won

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Perhaps I was not clear on the Spot issue. He moves through a different dimension to teleport. It's not like Nightcrawler's just passing through. I think we should ban Spot's type of movement. Spot has the option of remaining indefinitely in his dimension, and I feel his use of teleportation in that manner violates the spirit of the BFR rule.


The character can move/teleport/semi teleport Spot-to-Spot or Spot-to-Dimension-to-Spot. Besides, like inimalist already said going Spot-to-Dimension-to-Spot or camping in the spot dimension is already banned. As would sending a person into the dimension (but not their attacks). So I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Perhaps I was not clear on the Spot issue. He moves through a different dimension to teleport. It's not like Nightcrawler's just passing through. I think we should ban Spot's type of movement. Spot has the option of remaining indefinitely in his dimension, and I feel his use of teleportation in that manner violates the spirit of the BFR rule.

A is the start location
B is the alternate dimension
C is the end point

all travel A to C directly is allowed (except through time)

all travel A to C via B is allowed (again, minus time)

if a character stops in B between A and C, they have BFR'd themselves.

I see no reason to even ban it... it is an instant KO to the character trying. Using Spot to sit in another dimension would only be a good strategy if you wanted Spot eliminated.

The teleportation/dimension thing is a caveat to allow a broader use of teleportation that just might happen to violate the word of the "no dimensional travel rule", it will not be used as a way to get around the spirit of the "no dimensional travel rule". I'm with you, it would make for slow and boring matches.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
2nd concern: So what's your ruling? If someone drafted say, random anime character and says they do this with a scan or feat, but there are extenuating circumstances they aren't saying or don't know about, but their opponent does not call them on it, may I? Or they claim something I flatout know they can't do. Can I use my personal knowledge in making a judgement call? It's not so much an issue of scans as it's the issue of my being allowed to use my personal knowledge of what characters are capable of in disputing BS claims.

My only real issue is I think it would be bad form to have judges and contestant arguing over feat interpretations. That being said, your role as a judge is essentially as you have described above. I've tried to think of as many scenarios as I could, and I think I agree with you.

I don't want to see the types of arguments about feat interpretation that this might bring, but if someone is using a character in a way that is patently wrong, you can take that into consideration when judging their performance in the debate. If you aren't a judge for that match, there is no reason why you couldn't send a PM to the other contestant even, I really can't stop that. I'm sure you can see what I'm trying to avoid though. I don't want judgements turned into "Thor is stronger", "No hulk is stronger" nonsense, but judges do have to use their own discretion when assessing the matches, and if something is BS, call it as such, just do so in the judgement, and take it into account in determining how someone performed.

However, any sort of collaboration between a competator and a judge for their match is grounds for removal of both from the tournament. Thats not directed at you or anything, just came to mind as I was writing that.

if need arises I'll open an appeals process, but I haven't seen a need for that in any tournament (im a noob though)

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
3rd: Please elaborate on a clear violation.

It would depend, and stuff like this is hard to quantify anyways.

But like, obviously planet destroying blasts are out, but like, being able to wipe out a city isn't that bad. I can't see the need for a top speed or strength... Someone who could create entire pocket universes or timelines would obviously be way too powerful. Stuff like that...

tell me which types of powers you mean and I can give a better idea. There are literally thousands of things I could give you limits to

Originally posted by Blair Wind
No, what lost me the match was my stupidity. I even got the judges (after the match through PM's) to conceded that if I had done one (very small) strategic step differently, they would have voted my way. Too bad the idea occurred to me a literal day after the match - sort of like our team match DC and I won

Indeed. Guess we're even.

Ours didn't come until a few weeks after the match, so it was moderately less heart-breaking I suppose.

So, is this still going down?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
So, is this still going down?

I'll see if I can garner any more interest over the weekend, but it looks like there wasn't as much interest as I thought/the crushing daily grind of work and life has got in the way/I'm now top 8 in silver, bitches!

Originally posted by inimalist
/the crushing daily grind of work and life has got in the way

you should've accounted for that

Originally posted by inimalist

/I'm now top 8 in silver, bitches! I don't understand what this means

Originally posted by Starscream M
you should've accounted for that

I should have

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't understand what this means

I'm in the top 8 of my starcraft division I don't think os any more though...

Originally posted by inimalist

I'm in the top 8 of my starcraft division nice, what race do you prefer? I plan to get starcraft 2 eventually when my new gaming laptop arrives...even though I suck at RTSes.


Originally posted by inimalist

I don't think os any more though... huh? os?

Originally posted by Starscream M
nice, what race do you prefer? I plan to get starcraft 2 eventually when my new gaming laptop arrives...even though I suck at RTSes.

zerg, they play themselves :P

no, ok, not at all, but ya, zerg is where it is at imo. It takes a while if you go through the whole practice league, but Blizzard has set up the Battle.net system to really only pair you with people of generally equal skill, so like, I'm terrible, but I'm never really against people who destroy me (anymore at least, after I was ranked properly)

Originally posted by Starscream M
huh? os?

it should have been "so", as in, I've probably dropped out of the top 8 because I haven't played in a couple of days, and really, my skill is probably close to 20th place /shrug (and because of this, I'm losing a whole lot more now to top placed players)

lol... oh how I could rant about starcraft. Ya man, when you get it, let me know, we'll so some team ups or 1v1s or whatever

cool, thanks for the info

So what's the chars. Cap level now? Still high meta or low herald?

Dammit Spot was already used in a BZ? I hoped noone would recognize his exotic shit cause he's D-list villain... I'm kinda pissed now ahah

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Dammit Spot was already used in a BZ? I hoped noone would recognize his exotic shit cause he's D-list villain... I'm kinda pissed now ahah



Sorry

He's also won 1 tourney and reached the finals of another. Spot's old hat in tourneys.

that first occurrence is branded in my mind

it will be rectified

charlotte - digi. to be continued.....

Originally posted by Ambient
So what's the chars. Cap level now? Still high meta or low herald?

It looks like Magneto is the "cap", so to speak.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Dammit Spot was already used in a BZ? I hoped noone would recognize his exotic shit cause he's D-list villain... I'm kinda pissed now ahah
Originally Blair's obscure pick, I was so impressed I used him in like 3 tourneys afterwards.

I guess I didn't think he was entirely obscure, because I've read all the old Spider-Man stuff. But yeah, it was a nice find, I wouldn't have thought of him on my own. My pick of him is undoubtedly in Blair's debt as well (ironic, since he helped me beat Blair). It would be like me losing to Minion, another relative unknown until he sprang into like 3 tourneys (leo used him first, actually, though he learned about him from me prior to his tourney usage).

Tourneys are good for that though. I can't think of any others offhand, but I'm sure there's plenty of other characters that didn't have any notoriety until they tore up some punks in a tourney.

{edit} Thought of one. Majestic. Way back in like '05 when Khellendros was the only one on KMC who knew who he was. My butthurt from that match lasted a while, I didn't really have any way to know what I was facing or how to counter it.

Could you guys link me to the matches where you used him (Blair, Digi, King Kandy)? I would like to compare my strategy I had in mind with the ones you used.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Could you guys link me to the matches where you used him (Blair, Digi, King Kandy)? I would like to compare my strategy I had in mind with the ones you used.

Boy, that sounds like it might be hard. If only we had a place that collected such matches and history you might have a chance at seeing Spot in action. Alas, no such luck. Sorry.

parmaniac just wanted you to promote the database thread

a "thank you" should be in order

Heh.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
parmaniac just wanted you to promote the database thread

a "thank you" should be in order

I'm still waiting sneer

ya, alright guys, as I'm sure comes as no surprise, I'm going to call this.

I did never really advertise outside of this forum, not that I don't think we might have gotten some more interest, just that a) I was hoping for more of a BZ crowd and b) the more mediums we involved, the less I was going to be able to run the show. If someone does want to try some huge cross-genre thing where we involve all the other forums, I will help as much as possible, I'm certainly in no position to be the head guy in something like that.

So, my appologies and thanks to everyone that showed some interest. If charllotte and jake/smurph want to have a match, I'm sure I can get our judges to rule on it, but otherwise... meh.

Thanks, my bad of course, and ya.... I think thats about it...

we can just implement the linked battlezone idea then; no formal schedule but the wins/losses are tallied.

leo and i are also partnered, and i suspect there were other interested people, all is not lost.

wut? we are?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i suspect there were other interested people

as did I

lol, no, if there is interest, people need to let me know... but I just didn't really see it

Yeah, you got 1 here..

Let's hear a two... Lol

I would've genuinely considered entering if it was high meta. As it is, I'm psychotically busy until summer proper so it's good for me. I may try starting something late June or early July. Been a while since I hosted anything, I'd have a much easier time than before. That bracket-style Battlezone series I've talked about before seems a good candidate.

Yeah! I think this would fly much better if it was high meta cap.. Ohh well..

where the hell were you guys on page 1 when everyone said the opposite...

Obvious we were not.. Lol either way I'm on board as I mentioned in discussion thread..

...

second person to let me know they are interested after I canceled...

ok, let me see, can I have people confirm if they are still interested:

- Charlotte
- Existre/Jake
- Psycho Gundam
- Ambient

if we have 4 contestants, it might be worth trying to get this going again

I'm still down. Let's do it.

alright

I'll work on getting something to post in the anime forums for Monday/Tuesday

I'm still in

alright, and like the phoenix, this tournament rises from the ashes!!!

so, as of now, we have enough people to run a mini tourney, so no matter what, I will do this thing!!

I need some feedback on an issue I can't really crystalize in my mind though.

So, multiple man type powers I thought would be ok at meta level, but too much of an exploit at herald. However, summoning powers I really like and wouldn't want to ban outright...

though, I don't see what differentiates these things. Obviously more is generally involved in summoning (knowing the magic, something to sacrifice) but not always, and simply saying "nobody higher than the limits" could quickly turn into fights of 3 vs hundreds of equally powerful opponents.

So ya, feedback: is summoning different than just straight up "dupe"-ing? should one of the be banned and the other allowed? should both be banned because herald level leaves this open to easy exploits? keep in mind, I'm allowing stuff like time and prob manip, so there is a lot of room for exploit anyways, and this might be a balance so that everyone isn't just trying to find the most uber time manipulator or reality manipulator they can.

I'd like to keep them both in, but ya, my original thoughts are that they are an easy exploit, just looking for opinions

I'd say allow it..

With that said, I call shotgun on Pain (naruto) Lol's..

How bout naruto's shadow cloned tech.. Is that banned? I assume it is but just want clarif....

Originally posted by Ambient
I'd say allow it..

With that said, I call shotgun on Pain (naruto) Lol's..

first-come first-serve, after drafts are open of course

Originally posted by Ambient
How bout naruto's shadow cloned tech.. Is that banned? I assume it is but just want clarif....

I'd need to get KK to rule on it after I figure out the summoning/dupe thing, I have no idea what it is in the first place

Welllllllll


I would argue that allowing duplication is inherently more powerful. Summoning is naturally restricted to whatever characters have summoned in the past, via feats, and there's not too many ways to get around that. Duplicating, however, allows for the mass production of not only the character with the cloning feats but also whatever he's amped with- any technology or power amps granted to the character through prep would logically be cloned as well.

So I wouldn't say that they're equal in power, but it's not the biggest distinction.

my thoughts are as follows:

dupe/summoning is allowed, so long as the product is a meta-tier being.

Basically, this prevents the herald swarm I was worried about, but also allows for the summoning of fodder or of specific beings that might add to the team. So like, if you could somehow summon Cloak because you want a TPer, fine, this is allowed. If you want to summon a bunch of rock golems that are ALWAYS shown to be meta level or below, sure, good fodder to tie up enemies.

Drafting Maddrox would be fine then, because he lacks the ability to create herald level dupes. Drafting a herald level character who duplicates themselves would not be allowed. Even if the herald would create only meta level dupes, this is NOT allowed, as there would be too much ambiguity about what a "meta" level Silver Surfer would be like. Basically, we go by the level seen on panel for whatever is summoned/duped. If a character has only ever summoned herald level demons, they are not allowed to summon demons, even if we can infer that they could summon meta level ones.

Summoned and duplicated characters may receive no power amping whatsoever. This is to prevent the obvious loop hole of creating 1000 meta level dupes, then amping them to the amp limit.

If it's not too late, I'd like to try this as well -- though the characters I'd like to use are a little obscure, so it may take me a little while to get the scans. A question: what are the rules on equipment, space-ships, etc.?

lol, so, the only truism I know is that, as soon as I say "I will have X done by Y" everything else in my life kicks into high gear. This weekend is tourney weekend hopefully!

not too late at all, in fact, I'm encouraging new participants.

All equipment that might be considered standard equipment is allowed, so long as the character is not raised above the limits.

In terms of spaceships and such, I'll use an example from Kandy's tourney. Blair drafted Nero from the star trek universe, seemingly for the use of his ship. In a circumstance like this, it is the ship that must be below the limits, regardless of whether the character is (so, you can't draft a meta character that has trans level equipment)

Basically, everything is allowed so long as it doesn't make whatever character you are using stronger than magneto. Obscure characters are encouraged

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, so, the only truism I know is that, as soon as I say "I will have X done by Y" everything else in my life kicks into high gear. This weekend is tourney weekend hopefully!

not too late at all, in fact, I'm encouraging new participants.

All equipment that might be considered standard equipment is allowed, so long as the character is not raised above the limits.

In terms of spaceships and such, I'll use an example from Kandy's tourney. Blair drafted Nero from the star trek universe, seemingly for the use of his ship. In a circumstance like this, it is the ship that must be below the limits, regardless of whether the character is (so, you can't draft a meta character that has trans level equipment)

Basically, everything is allowed so long as it doesn't make whatever character you are using stronger than magneto. Obscure characters are encouraged

Would it be the actual tournament or the draft this weekend? I ask because I will be without internet for all of Saturday and part of Sunday.

Most likely it would be the drafts...

ha, most likely it will be me posting finalized rules, some recruitment stuff in the anime and comic versus forums

here is the deal: DRAFTS WILL BEGIN FRIDAY

DRAFTING BEGINS FRIDAY

and will run until Monday (totally just realized I will be camping this weekend, but I should be able to receive messages... worst case scenario, I post the drafts on Monday). Contestants must send me their selection (of one character) by PM. If the contestant is going for a theme, the theme MUST be identified in that PM, along with a sentence about how the character fits the theme. Failure to provide the theme or the sentence will result in no theme being selected. If a contestant believes they are drafting a never-used character, that MUST be included in the PM, or else the character will not be considered a never used.

This must all be contained within a single PM, and must be received no later than 12:00 AM May 23rd, EST. Failure to provide a draft by that point will result in a loss of all prep time for one battle.

I should pore over the rules in a bit mroe detail. Might have some suggestions. I'll try to peruse them before drafts.

Hmmm... I'm tempted. Could be fun.

Originally posted by Digi
I should pore over the rules in a bit mroe detail. Might have some suggestions. I'll try to peruse them before drafts.

ha, ya, that might be good. I don't think there are any glaring issues, but you might be able to spot an exploit/issue I didn't

Originally posted by dmills
Hmmm... I'm tempted. Could be fun.

DO IT!

ugh, totally forgot this one:

no BFR

and a clarification: duplicate and summoned characters may amp themselves under their own power. so, your drafted characters wouldn't be able to increase their powers, but they may use their own abilities to buff themselves (ie: if you summon a character with shields, they may shield themselves or your drafted characters)

Could you please remind me the rules on powercopying? It's allowed as long as the character doesn't get himself over Magneto level by engaging in powercopying?

yes

though, this shouldn't be entirely problematic, as it seems it would require that the power being copied itself would be above the limits

however, yes, if the character would make themselves above the limit, you can't do it

So to clarify it is against the rule to amp our drafted characters over stablish limit same as dupes/clones?

Another ? If we somehow able to amalgate say drafted char into one being would they're dupes be considered a single entity therefore is able to amp himself without breaking the rules so long as it does not go above limits? Lol totally giving my plan out in the open or is it.

Another one.. Lol's

So if we summon say a char. we can use/ copy theyre powers and add it to our own drafted chars. That does not break the rules?

Originally posted by Ambient
So to clarify it is against the rule to amp our drafted characters over stablish limit same as dupes/clones?

yes, this is laid out plainly in the official rules

Originally posted by Ambient
Another ? If we somehow able to amalgate say drafted char into one being would they're dupes be considered a single entity therefore is able to amp himself without breaking the rules so long as it does not go above limits? Lol totally giving my plan out in the open or is it.

yes, but the amalgam would have to be a meta level character to duplicate itself

Originally posted by Ambient
Another one.. Lol's

So if we summon say a char. we can use/ copy theyre powers and add it to our own drafted chars. That does not break the rules?

drafted characters would be able to mimic summoned character's abilities, yes, with all the above stipulations

BTW, what the hell is with Cable being "undrafted" - he was in at least 2-3 tourneys from what I remember. As for "particular issue not being specified in previous drafts" - that's a Mount Everest-sized loophole...

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
BTW, what the hell is with Cable being "undrafted" - he was in at least 2-3 tourneys from what I remember. As for "particular issue not being specified in previous drafts" - that's a Mount Everest-sized loophole...

the rule is, characters are drafted labeled as "unused" and through the drafting process this is tested.

I'm not checking this personally, and actually relying on you guys to have better knowledge about this collectively than even my sleuth abilities could produce. Please take it to the drafts thread if you think there is a problem, and specifically, if you can find the tournament he was previously drafted in, link that.

EDIT: and no, it doesn't matter on issue runs, cable is cable is cable, so long as it is all 616. An alternate reality version of cable would be an "unused" character

OK. 5 secs.

I'm going to be offline for the most part of this weekend, so...when will be Rd2 and Rd3 of the drafts?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
so...when will be Rd2 and Rd3 of the drafts?

Originally posted by psycho gundam


this weekend, and they will probably go quicker, as I will be more around to look after issues as they come up

Obviously I didn't make it to the rules, and now drafts have started. My life kinda exploded into pieces this last week, so it's been tough just getting on (in a good way though). I'm sure you're fine.

looking back, I think mind control might be the only really problematic thing that snuck through without me going it much thought, but I'm not against it at herald level (every herald has high psi resistance it seems). People I'm sure will think of something I didn't, but there will never be a perfect rule set, and this has dragged on enough as is. I'm happy that drafting is underway, and if we can replace xemnu fast, I'll probably get drafts going tomorrow or Thursday

So this tourney is 3 character: amalgam or no amalgam?

no amalgam unless you can find a way to do so through the character's powers, but such an amalgam would be subject to the limits of any one character, meaning you couldn't amalgamate 2 characters under the limit into one that is over the limit

FYI gents and ladies, round 3 is open, but I'm not going to post until the last participant gives me their first 2 drafts. If it goes longer than 48 hours, I will start introducing draft penalties and will start the third round

I just noticed that only one prep post is allowed -- but given the variable prep times, and the fact that many of us are using less well-known characters that may require more scans to prove that they can do what they can do, this seems a little harsh. Could there possibly be additional prep-posts (maybe tied to actual prep-time), or a provision that would allow us to post-scans separately? I ask because (and I suspect I won't be alone in this), there are a lot of things I want to do in prep that could be summarized as "A uses the X" or "B does Y," where using X or doing Y are actions that would only take moments, but which could take as many as 3-6 scans to explain/provide evidence -- effectively negating much of my team's actual prep-time. Thoughts?

There is usually one prep, this is why you need detail explanation regarding your prep and attack strat. There is no word limit and scans in those initial post.. heck we dont need to worry aboout post limit in this tourney..

Originally posted by Ambient
There is usually one prep, this is why you need detail explanation regarding your prep and attack strat. There is no word limit and scans in those initial post.. heck we dont need to worry aboout post limit in this tourney..

OK, thanks! Haven't done one of these before and I misunderstood. I thought that it meant we had to keep everything down to the character-limit of a single PM.

U'r welcome.. U can do that if u want, give ur self some challenge.. ; )

still taking drafts for round 3, all participants have given me their round 1 & 2s, so I'll put that all up tonight. Sorry for the delay, lol! this will get started asap though!

i sent mine..right?

yes

Multiple Man was used in Delph's first tourney. Delph hosted the matches on his own forum, but the tournament was run through here with draft and all discussion threads in KMC's Comic Vs Forum. KMC members also made up the entire roster, so it was really as much a KMC tournament as any other.

So... yeah.

ah, I see...

is there a link?

I agree, that was a KMC tournament... it was only hosted elsewhere because mixed-genre tournaments weren't allowed at the time.

http://houseofzod.yuku.com/topic/387/t/Week-5-Team-Leo-Vs-Team-Smurph.html

multiple man is previously used

so, all drafts are in, just working on some minor issues, but once that is clear I will open up a thread for a quick "theme" contest, then we can work out some kind of brackets.

I'm mainly thinking a two loss elimination type thing, with the winner of the theme contest gets a bye of some kind

Hmm! how does that work? Is it a drawing contest?

no, I will just list teams with their theme, and anyone who wants can PM me a vote for who they think has the team that best fits their theme, etc.

Nice..

lol, a drawing contest would be cool too!

I think Ambient would win that hands down. I mean he made this awesomeness for me:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/44/blairwindsh5.jpg

Easy contest

I need to win something.. Lol's

ya, the sketch you did in our match was kick ass