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Excluding Alexander Luthor Jr, because that would be a no brainer, plus he's not a native of New Earth. Who is it? Who's DC's Scientist Supreme?

Wildstorm's Scientist Supreme is Professor Q, who would make anyone from DC drool.

Name a Hero and a Villain!

Anyway, for Hero, it's Will Magnus, IMO.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29072/778530-758607_cover_final_super_large.jpg

And for the villain, I think it's either T.O. Morrow or Professor Ivo.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14431/410146-34231-t-o-morrow_large.png

It really depends imo some are gods in specific areas like Ivo in rebotics imo Lex proved that overall hes the smartest

Mister Terrific has to get some mention here.

Lex Luthor

I think Ivo and or Morrow are above Luthor currently.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I think Ivo and or Morrow are above Luthor currently. Really I would say his improv with Kryptonian tech, pwning Braniac and jacking the power of a supreme big puts him over the top.

Ivo's created a being who could copy omnipotent power and probably could beat Brainiac in his sleep.

Yeah Lex prepped his way into omnipotence

That was pretty cool, though. The being looked really neat.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Ivo's created a being who could copy omnipotent power and probably could beat Brainiac in his sleep.

copy omnipotence? that doesn't make sense.

and i'd say mr. terrific from what i've seen.

Overall, Lex imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Overall, Lex imo. Lex is more circumstance based and a lot of his tech is based off of stuff dropped in his lap and he usually has a team of scientists backing him. Ivo straight up created Amazo.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Lex is more circumstance based and a lot of his tech is based off of stuff dropped in his lap and he usually has a team of scientists backing him. Ivo straight up created Amazo.

Lex has built stuff from scratch before. He just has a lot of good fortune when it comes to what he has available to him.

And Lex considers most scientists beneath him anyway.

Toyman

Originally posted by -Pr-
Lex has built stuff from scratch before. He just has a lot of good fortune when it comes to what he has available to him.

And Lex considers most scientists beneath him anyway. just pointing out most of his best stuff isn't purely his.

TO Morrow overall, Niles caulder for the heroes.

im surprised you mentioned niles for the hero side. do you really believe he is above will or palmer?

Lex. He's a more well rounded intellect, in that in addition to having an amazing scientific mind he's also a good strategist.

Ray Palmer's not bad for the heroes. Also on the villains is Dr. Sivana.

this is purely science feats. no strategy or tactics here.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
this is purely science feats. no strategy or tactics here. Ivo then Amazo's abilities alone puts him above any other earth based science as Amazo's capabilities are all built on Ivo's design.

I'm the only one repping Toyman?

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm the only one repping Toyman? toyman is good but i think I just can't take him seriously enough to give him the win in this. His inventions are just... too silly.

Why don't Ted Kord or Rip Hunter ever get mentioned in these smartest character debates?

It's nice to see Michael Holt get his props though.

Ted isn't street level, he's abstract.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
im surprised you mentioned niles for the hero side. do you really believe he is above will or palmer?

Based on feats, yes, it's almost unarguable. He's built time machines, he created the Candlemaker (a being who was able to throw Crazy Jane through the fourth wall into 'our' world, along with nearly destroying the planet), his nanomachines nearly destroyed the world, he's built weapons on the fly that can kill beings of vast temporal power, he's ressurected Rita Farr while at the same time enhancing her powers, given himself Kryptonian powers, created artificial intelligences, created devices to simulate the powers of the Justice League of America, built a device to 'put his mind in contact with every point in the known universe!", cured himself of his crippling, built Cliff's robot body, created faster than light travel, weather control, psionic dampening fields, and actually directly shat upon the work of Will Magnus as sloppy and inferior.

Ray Palmer is great, he's the ultimate thinker in the DCU. There is no problem he can't solve. He has built, then put into practice, whole new theories and additions to physics in the span of minutes to overcome a universe destroying phenomenon, he's conquered the pinnacle of 853rd Century technology when Superman 1 Million and Batman 1 Million said it was impossible to do with anything less than a Solaris Class Stellar Computing Engine, he's built time machines, he's got the best shrink tech and density altering tech in the business...but he doesn't have the breadth and number of tech feats that the Chief does.

And Magnus is very specific to robots, and specifically robotic intelligences. In his field, he's unparalleled -- not even T.O. Morrow is as good. But once you get beyond that, he doesn't have the depth of feats that a lot of the others do. A dimensional bridge here, a thought powered flying car there, but not like Morrow's vast breadth of accomplishments.

Originally posted by Desaad Based on feats, yes, it's almost unarguable. He's built time machines, he created the Candlemaker (a being who was able to throw Crazy Jane through the fourth wall into 'our' world, along with nearly destroying the planet), his nanomachines nearly destroyed the world, he's built weapons on the fly that can kill beings of vast temporal power, he's ressurected Rita Farr while at the same time enhancing her powers, given himself Kryptonian powers, created artificial intelligences, created devices to simulate the powers of the Justice League of America, built a device to 'put his mind in contact with every point in the known universe!", cured himself of his crippling, built Cliff's robot body, created faster than light travel, weather control, psionic dampening fields, and actually directly shat upon the work of Will Magnus as sloppy and inferior. Ray Palmer is great, he's the ultimate thinker in the DCU. There is no problem he can't solve. He has built

whoa! niles is uber as hell. what about rip hunters dad? didnt he build the vanishing point? a place to monitor every event in dc history?

Rip Hunter (good guy)
Epoch, the Lord of Time (villain)

Originally posted by Prep-Man

whoa! niles is uber as hell. what about rip hunters dad? didnt he build the vanishing point? a place to monitor every event in dc history?

Rip Hunter's dad is Booster Gold, and he's definitely no genius.

Rip Hunter himself has only ever really done one big thing, create a time machine, and early in his time traveling days he couldn't ever travel via the same method twice, so he was pretty limited.

He's far, far below the rest of the guys in consideration. Hell, even Kilowog has built a time machine.

T.O Morrow, The Chief, Ray Palmer, Will Magnus, Professor Ivo, Mr. Terrific, Lex Luthor, Steel...they've all got a greater variety and number of feats, across multiple disciplines. Even Batman has a couple of Big Science feats, though no time machine building.

Barry Allen might deserve a slight mention just for the cosmic treadmill, but...

Oh, Ted Knight's pretty high up there. The Cosmic Rod technology he made includes mental link to the owner, inexhaustible energy, telekinesis, forcefields, and other features. They're sometimes mentioned in the same breath as GL rings- not of the same level of course, but still impressive stuff, especially for having first been done in the 30s-40s. Also he made a space ship iirc, which is nice.

Not the widest range of inventions, but what inventions they are!

Originally posted by illadelph12
Why don't Ted Kord or Rip Hunter ever get mentioned in these smartest character debates?

It's nice to see Michael Holt get his props though.

Ted's good, but his best invention is the Bug, I think. An impressive craft, but there are better.

Hunter's better still. Mono-focused on time travel, though.

Originally posted by Q99
Oh, Ted Knight's pretty high up there. The Cosmic Rod technology he made includes mental link to the owner, inexhaustible energy, telekinesis, forcefields, and other features. They're sometimes mentioned in the same breath as GL rings- not of the same level of course, but still impressive stuff, especially for having first been done in the 30s-40s. Also he made a space ship iirc, which is nice.

Only the Quarvat is anywhere near the Green Lantern ring in power. Ted Knight's contribution to science is more about the basis for utilization of cosmic energy, which becomes much more widespread in the future, than for the raw power of his genius in the present day DCU. His work forms the foundation of a very important technology.

Originally posted by Desaad
Only the Quarvat is anywhere near the Green Lantern ring in power. Ted Knight's contribution to science is more about the basis for utilization of cosmic energy, which becomes much more widespread in the future, than for the raw power of his genius in the present day DCU. His work forms the foundation of a very important technology.

True, but even the modern Rods make for a pretty darn powerful hero by earth standards.

It's a very flexible device, in a way rarely seen on tech not in the hands of ancient and powerful cosmic aliens, if something of a junior cousin to those devices.

desaad, you mentioned a obscure superboy character a while ago. do you remember who it was?

Originally posted by Desaad
Rip Hunter's dad is Booster Gold, and he's definitely no genius.

Rip Hunter himself has only ever really done one big thing, create a time machine, and early in his time traveling days he couldn't ever travel via the same method twice, so he was pretty limited.

He's far, far below the rest of the guys in consideration. Hell, even Kilowog has built a time machine.

T.O Morrow, The Chief, Ray Palmer, Will Magnus, Professor Ivo, Mr. Terrific, Lex Luthor, Steel...they've all got a greater variety and number of feats, across multiple disciplines. Even Batman has a couple of Big Science feats, though no time machine building.

Booster is far more compedent than he lets on. I'm not sure if he belongs on this list, but he's very good at solving problems, and Rip has to learn it somewhere.

2nd, given that no one understands time like Rip Hunter, and that his work is vastly ahead of everyone else's, I think you are lowballing him. One need not be omni-discplinary to be in contention for this list. And Ivo has a huge problem. He's had long running problems with his robots going haywire or backstabbing him. Red Tornado, Tomorrow Woman, versions of Amazo, etc.

What you build isn't always as important as what you do. And Rip Hunter's top of the line in that regard.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
desaad, you mentioned a obscure superboy character a while ago. do you remember who it was?

Maybe the Guru, who was the leader of the Hairies, a race of super intelligent beings bred by Cadmus Labs.

Or maybe Dabny Donovan. They both played roles in Kesel's second Superboy run, but they're both originally from Kirby's work on Jimmy Olsen.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Booster is far more compedent than he lets on. I'm not sure if he belongs on this list, but he's very good at solving problems, and Rip has to learn it somewhere.

Being 'not as bad as people think' basically means he's not a complete and total idiot. He not only doesn't make the list of smartest guys in the DCU, he doesn't even make the list of slightly above average guys in the DCU. He's, at best, a good guy who tries hard and means well and is reasonably competent after years and years of experience.



It's not that no one understands time like Rip Hunter. Rip Hunter as appointed himself as the Master of Time, but T.O. Morrow has made universe wide changes with his mastery of time, the Lord of Time has gained near omnipotence, even the Linear Men had evolved past the need for physical forms and were seeing time from a higher, greater perspective than Rip ever was.

Rip is a guy with a good working knowledge of time travel. He's not dominant. Per Degaton is essentially his match, and he didn't appear to be anything approaching dominant in his "Time Masters" mini some years back.

You can't compare that to someone like Morrow, or Palmer, or the Chief, who build Time Machines in their spare time. Again, even KILOWOG has built a time machine in the DCU.




You're confusing T.O. Morrow and Ivo. Morrow created Red Tornado and Tomorrow Woman's brain, Ivo created Amazo.

And their 'turning' is not a deficiency, but a testament to the incredible nature of his creations. They were beings who gained real, free will. Tomorrow was PROUD that he was able to create a life, a soul, so real; so genuine. As well he should be.

The efficacy of his plotting and planning has nothing to do with a Mad Scientist's pure scientific genius. We were explicitly told not to take that type of 'intelligence' into account here.



This is pseudo-philosophical nonsense, and doesn't apply to the topic at hand.

Originally posted by Desaad
Maybe the Guru, who was the leader of the Hairies, a race of super intelligent beings bred by Cadmus Labs.

Or maybe Dabny Donovan. They both played roles in Kesel's second Superboy run, but they're both originally from Kirby's work on Jimmy Olsen.

Gotcha, any good things they have made?

Originally posted by Desaad
and is reasonably competent after years and years of experi
You're confusing T.O. Morrow and Ivo. Morrow created Red Tornado and Tomorrow Woman's brain, Ivo created Amazo.

And their 'turning' is not a deficiency, but a testament to the incredible nature of his creations. They were beings who gained real, free will. Tomorrow was PROUD that he was able to create a life, a soul, so real; so genuine. As well he should be.


That's one of the thing I love about TO Morrow. Yes, he's mad and all that, but really the science comes first, and he and Magnus pal around despite being on opposite sides because Magnus gives him props for that.


Btw, other stuff TO Morrow did: Create a machine that'd allow him to view the future, did the science-half of the creation and animation of Genocide (the Wonder Woman foe), and had a 'space creation' device which he used to drop Black Adam in 52.

Originally posted by Uriel005
just pointing out most of his best stuff isn't purely his.

him being able to utilise such things is a point in his favour imo.

Like Doom using Galactus tech, people try to use that as a knock against him, but I'd say being able to utilize tech so far advanced from anything you've ever experienced in a short time is impressive.

Originally posted by Q99
That's one of the thing I love about TO Morrow. Yes, he's mad and all that, but really the science comes first, and he and Magnus pal around despite being on opposite sides because Magnus gives him props for that.


Btw, other stuff TO Morrow did: Create a machine that'd allow him to view the future, did the science-half of the creation and animation of Genocide (the Wonder Woman foe), and had a 'space creation' device which he used to drop Black Adam in 52.

Do you have the Black Adam scan?

Isn't Mr. terrific continually called the earths 3rd smartest man?
are Batman & Luthor the 2 above him?
I know batman wouldn't be that hight on the scientist list but general intelligence.
I'd call Luthor the best Scientist though. and for good guys...
Palmer maybe?

Pre Crisis Luthor was a f.ucking beast and could go toe to toe with Dr Doom with nothing but orange juice and an old radio. Red Son Luthor was boss too.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Pre Crisis Luthor was a f.ucking beast and could go toe to toe with Dr Doom with nothing but orange juice and an old radio. Red Son Luthor was boss too. he wasn't quite macguyver level. Now there is a mans man. He could do it with belly button lint, some gum, a paper clip and swiss army knife and he would still top Every incarnation of Lex, Alexander Luthor, Ray Palmer, Dr. Doom, Reed Richards, Valeria Richards, Ivo, Forge, and Braniac put together.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Do you have the Black Adam scan?

I do not.

It was when a whole bunch of super scientists were dogpiling BA with their devices (a vision-focused guy blinded him, etc.), and his provided the coup de grace.

Originally posted by george '06
Isn't Mr. terrific continually called the earths 3rd smartest man?
are Batman & Luthor the 2 above him?

He calls himself that. Who's above him has never been said.

It does speak in his favor that he calls himself that and no-one objects or thinks he's exaggerating

q, you really think pc luthor is above alex luthor? a man who brought back the multiverse? i think thats the best scientific feat in comics. period.

Originally posted by Mindset
Like Doom using Galactus tech, people try to use that as a knock against him, but I'd say being able to utilize tech so far advanced from anything you've ever experienced in a short time is impressive.

exactly.

I wouldn't call Alexander Luthor an earth-based scientist- he's from an alternate world then lived in a universal pocket where he could observe everything.

Originally posted by Desaad
Being 'not as bad as people think' basically means he's not a complete and total idiot. He not only doesn't make the list of smartest guys in the DCU, he doesn't even make the list of slightly above average guys in the DCU. He's, at best, a good guy who tries hard and means well and is reasonably competent after years and years of experience.



It's not that no one understands time like Rip Hunter. Rip Hunter as appointed himself as the Master of Time, but T.O. Morrow has made universe wide changes with his mastery of time, the Lord of Time has gained near omnipotence, even the Linear Men had evolved past the need for physical forms and were seeing time from a higher, greater perspective than Rip ever was.

Rip is a guy with a good working knowledge of time travel. He's not dominant. Per Degaton is essentially his match, and he didn't appear to be anything approaching dominant in his "Time Masters" mini some years back.

You can't compare that to someone like Morrow, or Palmer, or the Chief, who build Time Machines in their spare time. Again, even KILOWOG has built a time machine in the DCU.




You're confusing T.O. Morrow and Ivo. Morrow created Red Tornado and Tomorrow Woman's brain, Ivo created Amazo.

And their 'turning' is not a deficiency, but a testament to the incredible nature of his creations. They were beings who gained real, free will. Tomorrow was PROUD that he was able to create a life, a soul, so real; so genuine. As well he should be.

The efficacy of his plotting and planning has nothing to do with a Mad Scientist's pure scientific genius. We were explicitly told not to take that type of 'intelligence' into account here.



This is pseudo-philosophical nonsense, and doesn't apply to the topic at hand. You know what? I'm going to disagree. I believe you are lowballing Booster Gold. Not to mention Rip Hunter.

And didn't the Linear Men go rogue and get taken out by Rip? It's one thing to build a time machine, it's another to screw with time enough that it disrupts the timeline. There's such a thing as knowing when not to act as well.

I botched Ivo, ok. But Tomorrow Woman was a joint creation between Ivo and Morrow. What has Degaton done? Not criticizing, I'm genuinely asking. I don't actually know the character very well.

Booster shouldn't be in this thread, anyway. What has he built or done that puts him with the top tiers?

beat Mr. Mind?

That was more of RIP's doing, anyway. And it wasn't even his tech.

Booster's smart, but he's clever smart, not science smart.