Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

which one of these DC/Marvel characters is the toughest mentally?

of the listed characters, which single hero (throughout their lives) has demonstrated the most resilience, pain tolerance, and superior will power in the face of overwhelming and seemingly impossible odds.
their powers are irrelevant.

spiderman
superman
wolverine
thor
batman
wonder woman
hal jordan
charles xavier
hulk
punisher
daredevil

black adam or hulk

batman wolverine and punisher

ya, but if you could only pick one hero who would it be? just one from the listed heroes.

Hal Jordan is a serious contender. Outside of willpower as how it relates to the Green Lantern Corps and his power ring, the guy's childhood was marred by his father's demise (which, when compared to the others here, it's no unique thing) and the fact that he never knew what was going through his head when he died in the airplane crash. Jordan's childhood dreams of flying were later opposed by his mother, who had grown physically ill as even refused to allow Hal to see her on her deathbed because he enlisted in the USAF. He also had to deal with his brothers, both of whom resented Hal in a way for their mother's plight.

Enter the later years, and Hal had dealt with a lot of grief prior to Abin Sur's crash landing. Hal had to essentially constantly deal with threats of such scale that only a few other people here can handle, much less imagine. His personal life was also pretty much shit as evidenced in the Hard Traveling Hero days.

Of course, shit doesn't get really bad until Coast City gets nuked, in which we see Hal's fall from grace. The stress of it all allowed himself to be infected by Parallax (which would actually be a mark against Hal's mental fortitude/willpower as he did break down, but still it's worth noting). Hal later then went on to destroy the thing he had sworn to uphold and would later be responsible for a threat of truly massive consequences during Zero Hour. He later then repented by displaying enough willpower and (and pain tolerance) by saving Earth during the Final Night, rekindling the sun with what was left of his power.

And then we have the whole Spectre affair, in which Hal, for a time, actually managed to curb the spirit to a point of making his mission Redemption instead of Vengeance. This wouldn't last, however. Still, the effort he made was beyond impressive.

And then we have Rebirth in which Hal has to endure both being the host of Spectre and Parallax, and with some help, manages to fight his way back to the living. And even after his heroic rebirth, Hal still had to deal with the consequences of his fall from grace and win back acceptance and trust from the superhero community and Corps in general.

I'm sure someone can make a better case for another character mentioned on the list, but Hal definitely deserves props.

I smell a Hal Jordan fanboy how you do dat durr

lol, well, Hal does happen to be my second favorite DC character...

Hal is definitely a contender not just for the list, but for comics in general. The man's a beast when it comes to willpower.

You don't get to have arguably more willpower than Batman and Superman (and they're insanely strong mentally), without being very, very good.

I like how you knew that the only correct choice was Doom so you left him out so it would not be one sided.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Hal is definitely a contender not just for the list, but for comics in general. The man's a beast when it comes to willpower.

You don't get to have arguably more willpower than Batman and Superman (and they're insanely strong mentally), without being very, very good. Do you recall their recent encounter with Jerico in Teen Titans? Nice showing for Hal forcing Jerico out threw sheer will Superman didnt even let him possess him thats will power for you

Originally posted by iceman24567
Do you recall their recent encounter with Jerico in Teen Titans? Nice showing for Hal forcing Jerico out threw sheer will Superman didnt even let him possess him thats will power for you

Was that in that election mini?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hal Jordan is a serious contender. Outside of willpower as how it relates to the Green Lantern Corps and his power ring, the guy's childhood was marred by his father's demise (which, when compared to the others here, it's no unique thing) and the fact that he never knew what was going through his head when he died in the airplane crash. Jordan's childhood dreams of flying were later opposed by his mother, who had grown physically ill as even refused to allow Hal to see her on her deathbed because he enlisted in the USAF. He also had to deal with his brothers, both of whom resented Hal in a way for their mother's plight.

Enter the later years, and Hal had dealt with a lot of grief prior to Abin Sur's crash landing. Hal had to essentially constantly deal with threats of such scale that only a few other people here can handle, much less imagine. His personal life was also pretty much shit as evidenced in the Hard Traveling Hero days.

Of course, shit doesn't get really bad until Coast City gets nuked, in which we see Hal's fall from grace. The stress of it all allowed himself to be infected by Parallax (which would actually be a mark against Hal's mental fortitude/willpower as he did break down, but still it's worth noting). Hal later then went on to destroy the thing he had sworn to uphold and would later be responsible for a threat of truly massive consequences during Zero Hour. He later then repented by displaying enough willpower and (and pain tolerance) by saving Earth during the Final Night, rekindling the sun with what was left of his power.

And then we have the whole Spectre affair, in which Hal, for a time, actually managed to curb the spirit to a point of making his mission Redemption instead of Vengeance. This wouldn't last, however. Still, the effort he made was beyond impressive.

And then we have Rebirth in which Hal has to endure both being the host of Spectre and Parallax, and with some help, manages to fight his way back to the living. And even after his heroic rebirth, Hal still had to deal with the consequences of his fall from grace and win back acceptance and trust from the superhero community and Corps in general.

I'm sure someone can make a better case for another character mentioned on the list, but Hal definitely deserves props.

In other words, Hal deals has dealt with great tragedy on multiple occasions.....like every other major superhero.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Was that in that election mini? I cant recall I was hoping you knew the details

Originally posted by wildernesss
which one of these DC/Marvel characters is the toughest mentally?

of the listed characters, which single hero (throughout their lives) has demonstrated the most resilience, pain tolerance, and superior will power in the face of overwhelming and seemingly impossible odds.
their powers are irrelevant.

spiderman
superman
wolverine
thor
batman
wonder woman
hal jordan
charles xavier
hulk
punisher
daredevil

Are these supposed to be separate categories -pain tolerance, superior will- etc. or overall?

A lot of those beings have done a great deal of what has been mentioned. Hulk, Thor, Hal, Superman, Punisher etc. have all shown crazy will power.

overall, the highest degree of all three. resilience, pain tolerance, and will power are somewhat related to eachother, so ya, i meant overall.

Hmm, out of those listed: DOOM!

Originally posted by iceman24567
I cant recall I was hoping you knew the details

I think that's DC: Universe - Decisions you're talking about.

I'm going to say Wonder Woman, but Thor's fan isn't going to agree with me.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
I like how you knew that the only correct choice was Doom so you left him out so it would not be one sided.

Originally posted by aztec
I'm going to say Wonder Woman,

She does have the advantage of, to my knowledge, never having a breakdown and turning evil, which is common among the Super set.

Thor's up there. Batman, unless you count 'retreating from his friends and family into the Bat persona' against him (it says something that when he snaps, he does so in the direction of becoming more focused on fighting crime).

as far as pain tolerance, resillience and sheer dumb determination are concerned as indicators of will, it really comes down to wolverine and punisher here.

Cap and you all suck

Originally posted by wildernesss
which one of these DC/Marvel characters is the toughest mentally?

of the listed characters, which single hero (throughout their lives) has demonstrated the most resilience, pain tolerance, and superior will power in the face of overwhelming and seemingly impossible odds.

All of them have it -more or less- but Spiderman is my choice. Batman and Daredevil would be right there too imho.

Originally posted by 753
as far as pain tolerance, resillience and sheer dumb determination are concerned as indicators of will, it really comes down to wolverine and punisher here.
I agree.



I normally would not have thought of Punisher, but our right he a beast in terms of will power.

They all have faced tragedy on several occasions. People have characters they read more, so they are more likely to say them.

All the shit Daredevil's been through, it's a miracle he hasn't offed himself.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They all have faced tragedy on several occasions. People have characters they read more, so they are more likely to say them. true, but that's not the only thing. the general tone of a comic and the concept of the character itself matter too. darker themed books like punisher, wolverine and batman have them going through a lot more shit than more optimistic titles with squeaky clean heroes in them. the amount of trauma wolverine and castle have been subjected to is sort of out of scale, specially with all the retcons and revelations of the past that keep piling up on them

Originally posted by 753
true, but that's not the only thing. the general tone of a comic and the concept of the character itself matter too. darker themed books like punisher, wolverine and batman have them going through a lot more shit than more optimistic titles with squaky clean heroes in them. the amount of trauma wolverine and castle have been subjected to is sort of out of scale, specially with all the retcons and revelations of the past that keep piling up on them
I agree. Punisher even killed his own wife and son.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
All the shit Daredevil's been through, it's a miracle he hasn't offed himself. yeah him too

Punisher is the toughest mentally. He has no super powers or healing factor or anything exotic like that. He is a real human who knows what ever damage is dealt to him is there to stay. NO HEALING FACTOR no regeneration etc.

Originally posted by Warlord
Cap and you all suck

Bravo

Originally posted by 753
true, but that's not the only thing. the general tone of a comic and the concept of the character itself matter too. darker themed books like punisher, wolverine and batman have them going through a lot more shit than more optimistic titles with squeaky clean heroes in them. the amount of trauma wolverine and castle have been subjected to is sort of out of scale, specially with all the retcons and revelations of the past that keep piling up on them Depends, characters like Spider-Man aren't "bad boys", but he has plenty of bad times and traumas, clones, etc. Not just superhero stuff, stuff in his normal life sucks, so many current characters face it in some way or another.

Batman
Punisher
Daredevil

Originally posted by 753
true, but that's not the only thing. the general tone of a comic and the concept of the character itself matter too. darker themed books like punisher, wolverine and batman have them going through a lot more shit than more optimistic titles with squeaky clean heroes in them. the amount of trauma wolverine and castle have been subjected to is sort of out of scale, specially with all the retcons and revelations of the past that keep piling up on them

Eh, Punisher, Wolverine, Daredevil etc. comics are darker but that doesn't in itself put them above the more mainstream super heroes.

For a while Thor walked around with most of his bones broken into pieces; every movement was agony. During the Seth War, Grogg kidnapped a depowered Thor, and tortured him repeatedly with his staff. Despite it causing him to scream in pain -according to Rogers- as an Immortal, he never said a word as a mortal.

And if you want sacrifice, Thor condemned his entire race to death. Literally led Surtur's army to Valhalla, watched his closest friends die and destroyed his realm because it was necessary.

If you want something more darker, there's Garth Ennis' Viking's mini where Thor got his ass handed to him. I mean bone sticking out of shin, his wrists hanging on by a thin lair of skin, crushed face etc. and he wouldn't stop. Harald tied a chain from his neck to Mjolnir and dropped him in a river; Thor still carried himself out.

Superman has some good ones too. Gog tortured him for centuries under Kryptonite and he still wouldn't crack. Then there's the Camelot Fall scene where his heart is ripped out and his magma ran through his veins. To be fair, those are potential futures but still.

Doom. Reticent as I am to laud the overrated tin can, the guy was tortured for centuries on end and didn't once cry out in pain or shed a tear just to deprive his tormentors of the satisfaction.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Eh, Punisher, Wolverine, Daredevil etc. comics are darker but that doesn't in itself put them above the more mainstream super heroes.

For a while Thor walked around with most of his bones broken into pieces; every movement was agony. During the Seth War, Grogg kidnapped a depowered Thor, and tortured him repeatedly with his staff. Despite it causing him to scream in pain -according to Rogers- as an Immortal, he never said a word as a mortal.

And if you want sacrifice, Thor condemned his entire race to death. Literally led Surtur's army to Valhalla, watched his closest friends die and destroyed his realm because it was necessary.

If you want something more darker, there's Garth Ennis' Viking's mini where Thor got his ass handed to him. I mean bone sticking out of shin, his wrists hanging on by a thin lair of skin, crushed face etc. and he wouldn't stop. Harald tied a chain from his neck to Mjolnir and dropped him in a river; Thor still carried himself out.

Superman has some good ones too. Gog tortured him for centuries under Kryptonite and he still wouldn't crack. Then there's the Camelot Fall scene where his heart is ripped out and his magma ran through his veins. To be fair, those are potential futures but still. Not only that but one must go by how well they adjust. Spider-Man is well adjusted to his life for the things he faces, he's not out doing killing sprees, so one could argue that he is *indeed* mentally tougher than many "badass" characters.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3641/clawshurthp7.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4749/clawshurt2cr6.jpg

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Doom. Reticent as I am to laud the overrated tin can, the guy was tortured for centuries on end and didn't once cry out in pain or shed a tear just to deprive his tormentors of the satisfaction.

Oh yea, Doom has insane feats of will power. Another example of a less street type character.

Ripped to pieces by prehistoric sharks and his will somehow kept him alive. The scene with Beyonder where his literally taking apart half of Doom's body layer by layer.

I also forgot to mention the scene where Mephisto tries and fails to break Thor's soul.

Originally posted by wildernesss
which one of these DC/Marvel characters is the toughest mentally?

of the listed characters, which single hero (throughout their lives) has demonstrated the most resilience, pain tolerance, and superior will power in the face of overwhelming and seemingly impossible odds.
their powers are irrelevant.

Superman deserves honorable mention, if nothing else but for being so principled that he wouldn't kill a scumbag like Manchester Black even when he thought he'd just murdered Lois.

There's a lot of shit on this forum about heroes who don't kill being 'pussies', 'hypocrites', 'naive', or 'idiotic', but sometimes it takes so much more spiritual certainty and fortitude NOT to kill someone.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh yea, Doom has insane feats of will power. Another example of a less street type character.

Ripped to pieces by prehistoric sharks and his will somehow kept him alive. The scene with Beyonder where his literally taking apart half of Doom's body layer by layer.

I also forgot to mention the scene where Mephisto tries and fails to break Thor's soul.

Yeah, Thor/Doom have good willpower.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3641/clawshurthp7.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4749/clawshurt2cr6.jpg

Smh.

Completely forgot about that. Rogue lost some respect.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman deserves honorable mention, if nothing else but for being so principled that he wouldn't kill a scumbag like Manchester Black even when he thought he'd just murdered Lois.

There's a lot of shit on this forum about heroes who don't kill being 'pussies', 'hypocrites', 'naive', or 'idiotic', but sometimes it takes so much more spiritual certainty and fortitude NOT to kill someone. That's my point, the ones that can go through society and not go out killing and adjust well have to have exceptional mental strength.

Um. Jean grey rewrote time and gave up the love of her life cyclops to a tramp... Err Emma...

Peter same thing with the mephisto deal.

Givin up on love requires a lot of sacrifice.

Although I'll mention winter soldier right now for all the mental crap he had to go through as Bucky. Livin in caps shadow.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman deserves honorable mention, if nothing else but for being so principled that he wouldn't kill a scumbag like Manchester Black even when he thought he'd just murdered Lois.

There's a lot of shit on this forum about heroes who don't kill being 'pussies', 'hypocrites', 'naive', or 'idiotic', but sometimes it takes so much more spiritual certainty and fortitude NOT to kill someone.

Not to mention the fact that he's had strokes and heart attacks and poisoning and STILL fought on at times.

I think honourable mention should go to Cyclops. He's not top of the list by any means, but tthe fact that he was getting up in the morning was a feat of willpower, imo.

Originally posted by rotiart
Um. Jean grey rewrote time and gave up the love of her life cyclops to a tramp... Err Emma...

Peter same thing with the mephisto deal.

Givin up on love requires a lot of sacrifice.

Although I'll mention winter soldier right now for all the mental crap he had to go through as Bucky. Livin in caps shadow.

Emma's not a tramp. Jean only put him with her to save the X-Men anyway.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Smh.

Completely forgot about that. Rogue lost some respect.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8370/giantsizeavengers001038bx0.th.jpg

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not to mention the fact that he's had strokes and heart attacks and poisoning and STILL fought on at times.

I think honourable mention should go to Cyclops. He's not top of the list by any means, but tthe fact that he was getting up in the morning was a feat of willpower, imo.



Emma's not a tramp. Jean only put him with her to save the X-Men anyway.

Nice call on the Superman thing. I don't see people giving him credit for that.

I'm confused. Am I suppose to be impressed?

As far as I know, he tears through flesh when his claws pop. The end. Not to mention his bones are Adamantium.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm confused. Am I suppose to be impressed?

As far as I know, he tears through flesh when his claws pop. The end. Not to mention his bones are Adamantium.
Not really, it was ment to be funny. You said you lost respect for rogue for being unable to stand the claws, so I thought it be funny to post wolverine sleeping with his claws out.



also it a lot more then that. His healing factor is constantly trying to heal the wound while the claws are out causing sever pain.

Punisher recently dropped a grenade at his feet, tanked the explosion, then jumped off a five-six story building... and was fine. Frank is a superhuman damage absorbing sponge, and he does it with will power alone baby.

I would put Black Bolt right up there. The will power and concentration to never utter a syllable even through emotional moments must be hard as fuuuk. He even trained himself to not do things like sneeze or snore just so he won't obliterate everything around him.

Where the hell is captain america?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Not really, it was ment to be funny. You said you lost respect for rogue for being unable to stand the claws, so I thought it be funny to post wolverine sleeping with his claws out.

also it a lot more then that. His healing factor is constantly trying to heal the wound while the claws are out causing sever pain.

Oh okay. My bad man.

What? How does that work?

Can you really say that the Punisher has willpower and mental toughness. I feel it comes more from his controlled psychosis more than anything else. Willpower is determination AND self-control which the punisher generally lacks. He has a few things he sticks to but if the chips are down they are still negotiable depending on the cost. Batman Superman Hal and Cap are better choices IMO but I'd have to put Superman at the top. Not because of what he does but more because of what he doesn't do. With his abilities and smarts to build things like the miracle machine or just generally manage things on top of his physical stats his issue becomes more of one Not to take action where he could. He could solve all the worlds problems hell he could conquer the earth and make it a utopia with relative ease and at his best there is little that could have stopped him back in the silver age at his absolute peak.

At his best he has laughed at Darkseid and the strongest beings in the universe best shots against him. Gods have fallen broken before him and despite all his power and the will to do good he does not simply take things into his own hands and arbitrarily pass judgement. Consider that at Supermans absolute peak that even a peak Dr. Fate is little more than laughable despite Supermans magic vulnerability as well as times when Kryptonite acts more like slow radiation poisoning that is incredibly painful but otherwise manageable. This makes him all the more mentally strong in my book.

whathefuk

lulz

I think Punisher has astounding self control, infact I would go as far to see that few characters posses the same level of self control as Frank Castle. What you need to keep in mind is that Frank doesn't kill criminals because he lacks impulse control or because he has a pathological compulsion that requires him to kill or hurt people, he does it because he believes with the entity of his being that it is necessary. He is often depicted as being opposed to the consumption of alcohol and drugs (even ones as menial as pain killers), sometimes he even comes off as A-sexual like Judge Dredd with a complete disinterest in sex (or anything outside of his mission really). He is practically a monk... a monk that violently kills people. No ones perfect.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think Punisher has astounding self control, infact I would go as far to see that few characters posses the same level of self control as Frank Castle. What you need to keep in mind is that Frank doesn't kill criminals because he lacks impulse control or because he has a pathological compulsion that requires him to kill or hurt people, he does it because he believes with the entity of his being that it is necessary. He is often depicted as being opposed to the consumption of alcohol and drugs (even ones as menial as pain killers), sometimes he even comes off as A-sexual like Judge Dredd with a complete disinterest in sex (or anything outside of his mission really). He is practically a monk... a monk that violently kills people. No ones perfect.

Punisher has had sex quite a few ties that I know off. He even slept with a guys wife who he was trying to help out. The other time he slept with one of his contacts...I guess because it helped the mission out.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Punisher has had sex quite a few ties that I know off. He even slept with a guys wife who he was trying to help out. The other time he slept with one of his contacts...I guess because it helped the mission out.

Which is why I used the clarifier "sometimes."

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Which is why I used the clarifier "sometimes." I just think that his pathological psychosis plays a big factor in his single minded drive to accomplish the mission more than anything else. It's also why I put batman under superman. He is clinically insane in his obsession for control over both himself and his environment.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I agree. Punisher even killed his own wife and son.

What? I mean wasn't him becoming the ****ing Punisher was to fight injustice, to protect the weak from the powerful. If he's the one that killed his Wife and Son, then what's the ****ing point of being the ****ing Punisher.

Marvel has literally **** up a good character with that shit.

**** YOU MARVEL, **** YOU.

They were magically rezed by the Hood with insidious methods and intend... so Frank torched them.

Punisher needs to kill. His a psychopathic murdering machine that was unleashing in Vietnam. His family dying was just an excuse; something else would have set him up.

That's what I remember from the most recent takes.

Punisher has a strong drive, but he doesn't win here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Punisher needs to kill. His a psychopathic murdering machine that was unleashing in Vietnam. His family dying was just an excuse; something else would have set him up.

That's what I remember from the most recent takes.

Punisher has a strong drive, but he doesn't win here.

That's Max Punisher.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Punisher needs to kill. His a psychopathic murdering machine that was unleashing in Vietnam. His family dying was just an excuse; something else would have set him up.

That's what I remember from the most recent takes.

Punisher has a strong drive, but he doesn't win here. Originally posted by Uriel005
I just think that his pathological psychosis plays a big factor in his single minded drive to accomplish the mission more than anything else. It's also why I put batman under superman. He is clinically insane in his obsession for control over both himself and his environment. thats my point when it comes to Batman and Punisher mental illnesses do not count towards mental toughness. Putting a masochist under torture does not mean he or she has a lot of willpower.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That's Max Punisher.

So was his story retcon, or is Max Punisher an alternate version, like one of Marvel's What If stories.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That's Max Punisher.

Point.

Max Punisher = Best Punisher.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Point.

Max Punisher = Best Punisher.

True.

Originally posted by Uriel005
thats my point when it comes to Batman and Punisher mental illnesses do not count towards mental toughness. Putting a masochist under torture does not mean he or she has a lot of willpower. but they're not masochists and while you may label them insane, it does not take away from their drive and will

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman deserves honorable mention, if nothing else but for being so principled that he wouldn't kill a scumbag like Manchester Black even when he thought he'd just murdered Lois.

There's a lot of shit on this forum about heroes who don't kill being 'pussies', 'hypocrites', 'naive', or 'idiotic', but sometimes it takes so much more spiritual certainty and fortitude NOT to kill someone. hasnt he also lost it completely in other occasions when believing lois was dead or that he himself had killed innocents?

Originally posted by Uriel005
Can you really say that the Punisher has willpower and mental toughness. I feel it comes more from his controlled psychosis more than anything else. Willpower is determination AND self-control which the punisher generally lacks. He has a few things he sticks to but if the chips are down they are still negotiable depending on the cost. Batman Superman Hal and Cap are better choices IMO but I'd have to put Superman at the top. Not because of what he does but more because of what he doesn't do. With his abilities and smarts to build things like the miracle machine or just generally manage things on top of his physical stats his issue becomes more of one Not to take action where he could. He could solve all the worlds problems hell he could conquer the earth and make it a utopia with relative ease and at his best there is little that could have stopped him back in the silver age at his absolute peak.

At his best he has laughed at Darkseid and the strongest beings in the universe best shots against him. Gods have fallen broken before him and despite all his power and the will to do good he does not simply take things into his own hands and arbitrarily pass judgement. Consider that at Supermans absolute peak that even a peak Dr. Fate is little more than laughable despite Supermans magic vulnerability as well as times when Kryptonite acts more like slow radiation poisoning that is incredibly painful but otherwise manageable. This makes him all the more mentally strong in my book. it takes incredible willpower not to do shit? I dont get it. FC is an embodiment of self-control, as imbalanced as he is.

Originally posted by 753
hasnt he also lost it completely in other occasions when believing lois was dead or that he himself had killed innocents?

When Black made him believe he'd killed Lois, Superman didn't lash out.

However, when Max Lord got inside his head, he was more forcing him to watch things being replayed over and over, which made him feel the grief over and over (and he still fought that mental control at the same time).

It can vary, but more often than not Superman keeps his principles intact.

Then there's his resistance/perseverance feats.

Originally posted by 753
but they're not masochists and while you may label them insane, it does not take away from their drive and will The point wasn't that they are masochists. The point is that their will is derived from mental illness. Obsession is a mental illness and it has been cited in Batman and Punisher time and again. They are not driven to do the things that they do there is an actual psychological disorder pushing them to do it it my point. There is something broken in their heads that lets them do what they do.

Since when are will power and mentally tough the same thing?

Originally posted by Uriel005
The point wasn't that they are masochists. The point is that their will is derived from mental illness. Obsession is a mental illness and it has been cited in Batman and Punisher time and again. They are not driven to do the things that they do there is an actual psychological disorder pushing them to do it it my point. There is something broken in their heads that lets them do what they do. obsession by itself isnt a diagnosis and in their case is just another word for single-minded drive. but even if they did fit some diagnosis that would not make them any less driven because of it, their behavior would still be an expression of their volitions.

Here's a question though: Could they *hold back* for awhile if they had to as easily as they can press on?

Remember in Bruce Wayne: Murderer when he went to jail, he went 'Batman' on three inmates out of pure frustration, even though it hurt his situation, and eventually just broke out. Going Batman in Murderer/Fugitive wasn't willpower, it was retreating.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think Punisher has astounding self control, infact I would go as far to see that few characters posses the same level of self control as Frank Castle. What you need to keep in mind is that Frank doesn't kill criminals because he lacks impulse control or because he has a pathological compulsion that requires him to kill or hurt people, he does it because he believes with the entity of his being that it is necessary. He is often depicted as being opposed to the consumption of alcohol and drugs (even ones as menial as pain killers), sometimes he even comes off as A-sexual like Judge Dredd with a complete disinterest in sex (or anything outside of his mission really). He is practically a monk... a monk that violently kills people. No ones perfect. Bullshit punisher kills because that has been the only thing that he has ever been good at.

He does not kill criminals because it is necessary but because they are a convenient target.

In a weird sick way losing his wife and children set him free to do what he has always wanted to do fight a never ending war.

If you where to give Punisher the choice between having his family back or go on killing forever he would take option two.

I want to say Wonder Woman because she makes very very very few mistakes when put under pressure. She's also pressed through one of Circe's mystical barriers that incinerated her flesh completely and she was just a skeleton reaching through and still managing to grab Circe by the throat. I would disqualify characters like Daredevil because although he goes through a lot and remains functioning as a superhero, he often times lets his troubles and conflicts get in the way of his job.

My opinion is Batman or superman

Originally posted by godking
Bullshit punisher kills because that has been the only thing that he has ever been good at.

He does not kill criminals because it is necessary but because they are a convenient target.

In a weird sick way losing his wife and children set him free to do what he has always wanted to do fight a never ending war.

If you where to give Punisher the choice between having his family back or go on killing forever he would take option two. Nope.

Originally posted by Q99
Here's a question though: Could they *hold back* for awhile if they had to as easily as they can press on?

Remember in Bruce Wayne: Murderer when he went to jail, he went 'Batman' on three inmates out of pure frustration, even though it hurt his situation, and eventually just broke out. Going Batman in Murderer/Fugitive wasn't willpower, it was retreating. provided said holding back served a goal worth achieving in their minds, I think so, yes.

Originally posted by Mindset
Nope. Yes.