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Which team wins?

Team 1

Team 2 Void is the weaklink here

Dam...tough call.

My gut is telling me that team 2 has the advantage, but its not a huge one...

Void is the weakest link here BUT team 1 has DP Tyrant and I think he more than covers the deficiency created by Void...

My gut thought is team 2 for a slight majority; 6 out of 10, 7 out of 10 max.

The more I think about it, I am not so sure team 2 has the advantage anymore...

I think Zeus pushes Odin to his limit; Odin eventually wins, but barely, and after he beats Zeus, I dont think he'll be a game changer anymore....

I think Onslaught mind rapes Void into uselessness right off the bat, so it comes down to wether or not Onslaught and Thanos can defeat DP Tyrant...

And thats not a battle I think they can win; I think DP Tyrant beats Thanos and Onslaught...

Odin/Thanos/Onslaught win. Onslaught's and Thano's psychic abilities make Void the weak link.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Odin/Thanos/Onslaught win. Onslaught's and Thano's psychic abilities make Void the weak link.

While this is undoubtedly true... Void wasn't really a factor anyways... whether he is taken out by blasts or a TP attack.. he is going ouc quickly regardlss. I honestly think Team one by a hair.. here is why...

MOst powerful person in the field is Tyrant, he is then followed by

Odin/Zeus
Thanos
Onslaught
Void

Zeus and Odin and basically equal.. and even if you want to argue Odin is more powerufl.. he wouldn't and couldn't put down Zeus easily or quickly. Tyrant WOULD put down Onslaight or Thanos pretty quickly and really both of them by the time Odin or Zeus win. That leaves Tyrant vs. a spent Odin or Tyrant and a weakened Zeus vs a weakened Odin... Team 1 for me, but this is a good fight.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Zeus and Odin and basically equal.. and even if you want to argue Odin is more powerufl.. he wouldn't and couldn't put down Zeus easily or quickly. Tyrant WOULD put down Onslaight or Thanos pretty quickly and really both of them by the time Odin or Zeus win. That leaves Tyrant vs. a spent Odin or Tyrant and a weakened Zeus vs a weakened Odin... Team 1 for me, but this is a good fight.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
While this is undoubtedly true... Void wasn't really a factor anyways... whether he is taken out by blasts or a TP attack.. he is going ouc quickly regardlss. I honestly think Team one by a hair.. here is why...

MOst powerful person in the field is Tyrant, he is then followed by

Odin/Zeus
Thanos
Onslaught
Void

Zeus and Odin and basically equal.. and even if you want to argue Odin is more powerufl.. he wouldn't and couldn't put down Zeus easily or quickly. Tyrant WOULD put down Onslaight or Thanos pretty quickly and really both of them by the time Odin or Zeus win. That leaves Tyrant vs. a spent Odin or Tyrant and a weakened Zeus vs a weakened Odin... Team 1 for me, but this is a good fight. Besides Tyrant being the most powerful person on the field I agree with this.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Besides Tyrant being the most powerful person on the field I agree with this.

Yeah...

Its possible Thanosi is correct about DP Tyrants power level, but I think we need more showings from him before we can be conclusive as to were he stands power wise...

Okay... well let me ask you two this.. I believe he is more powerful.. but would you guys at least agree that if he isn't more powerful he is just as powerful as lets say Odin?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay... well let me ask you two this.. I believe he is more powerful.. but would you guys at least agree that if he isn't more powerful he is just as powerful as lets say Odin? I'd say slightly weaker than Odin.

This is the way I see it.

Odin=Zues>DP Tyrant>>>Thanos>Onslaught>>>Void.

Well then we are worlds apart on how we view them. I could see somebody saying they are peers or equals (even though I disagree and feel Tyrant is both of their superiors) However, weaker.. nah that is just worlds apart.

Team 2 can take it. Though not by much. Tyrant will be the challenge as itll probably only be Thanos and Onslaught vs him because Odin will have either stalemated or beaten Zeus barely....I still give slight majority to team 2. 6/10

Agreed with Black Bolt RE: Odin being the most powerful character on the field, followed by Zeus and then Tyrant. Most seem to agree that Void is going down fairly early, and I don't see Tyrant being able to take on both Thanos (given his upgrades and durability) or Onslaught's raw power. He isn't going to drop the both of them quick, if at all.

What, in your opinion, makes Tyrant the most powerful here?

Agreed Odin is the most powerful followed by Zeus and Tyrant

team 1

Originally posted by Harbinger
Agreed with Black Bolt RE: Odin being the most powerful character on the field, followed by Zeus and then Tyrant. Most seem to agree that Void is going down fairly early, and I don't see Tyrant being able to take on both Thanos (given his upgrades and durability) or Onslaught's raw power. He isn't going to drop the both of them quick, if at all.

What, in your opinion, makes Tyrant the most powerful here?

It's pretty simple really... I look at a mutual powerful combatant they both fought.. Thanos.

When Thanos fought Odin.. he wasn't looking for a fight, but help from Odin.. He didn't prep for Odin.. and wasn't amped fighting Odin. Yet the fight lasted much longer and Thanos NEVER ONCE thought about leaving or backing down or have any fear of dying.

Now, compare that to Thanos fighting Tyrant... Thanos looking for a fight... Thanos was prepped and had studied Tyrant... Thanos also had an amp when he fought Tyrant. Yet, his fight with Tyrant lasted a much shorter period of time before Thanoa DID back down and admit Tyrant would kill him if he stayed. Very stark contrast to how he acted with Odin. He felt both of their powers, and clearly, judging by Thanos we know which one he felt was the more powerful dangerous foe.

Next, I look at all the narration, fights and events that lead up to his fight with Galactus. Clearly Galactus considered Tyrant to be a legit threat to him and his words and actions go directly towards that. Let me also state that I feel Galactus is above Odin in power. Now, when Galactus fight met Tyrant..

1. He bakced down from a fight with Tyrant and LET him take his herald from him. The reason given.. Galaxies would be destroyed in the collateral damage. Seems like Galactus feared Tyrant power and even let him take his herald

2. Galactus is usually always very demeaning and feels he is above most foes. He doesn't Prep nor feed before his fights. He usually thinks it will be a cake walk or he's already starving and dying. This is a stark contrast to how he viewed Tyrant and what he did to prepare. He prepped and fed on a planet ripe with nutrients. Even making a comment he hadn't felt this good in ages. Yet again actions and narration that point to Galactus feeling Tyrant was a legit threat and he was concerned about his power.

3. More narration.. we see SS racing to the where Tyrant and Galactus were fighting and comments... I must get there before they BOTH DESTROY eachother. SS knows and has felt Galactus power and had also experienced Tyrant's power. He clearly felt that they were pretty close in power and they could both kill one another.

Now what does all that narration prove... well it proves that the subsequent fight backed up those fears and statements as Tyrant tooled Galactus with ease. Don't let people fool you into thinking Tyrant won because he was empowered by Galactus blasts or used his tech against him. Reasons why...

1. Numerous narration prior to the fight already make it clear Tyrant has a shot at winning and NEVER ONCE did it state because he was a tecnopath or because Galactus blasts would empower him

2. The reason why those weren't stated is because they BOTH feed on the same Bio-sphere energy. So whatever would empower Tyrant woudl also empower Galactus. The thing is, Tyrant wasn't foolish enough try that on Galactus and was the smarter tactical fighter. Being smarter letting your opponent make mistakes is exactly why Tyrant was a legit threat..

3. Lastly, keep in mind that prior to the fight Tyrant was weakened and yet still performed very well.

4. Finally, take a look at what Doom did with Galactus power to Odin. He one shot Odin with ease and treated him like a fly. Now before people go run and say.. ooo he had the cube also.. don't be fooled. Doom didn't even notice losing the cube because he had Galactus power. His whole goal and main source of power he wasnted was Galactus and that was after he had the cube. Once he got it.. the cube was insignifcant in comparison to Galactus power. A power which one shot Odin with ease.

These are the reasons I feel Tyrant is above Galactus and I think it's a clear decisive edge backed up by on panel evidence and mutual foes.

How about somebody tell me how Odin is more powerful and these direct confrontations with mutual foes don't apply

most powerful on the field

Tyrant
Odin
Zeus
Thanos
Onslaught/Void

As pertains Galactus vs DP Tyrant, I have been over this ground many times before and so I wont rehash my entire argument, but I will say that that entire storyline was very PIS ridden...

Galactus beats full power Tyrant, but backs down and loses to DP Tyrant!?

Not buying it; that writter wrote Galactus as "forgetting" Tyrants powerset and made Galactus fight like a complete noob; very very very PIS'y IMHO...


As pertains Thanos vs Odin and Tyrant, I agree that Thanos had an amp and had to flee or be killed by Tyrant, but I honestly dont think Odin was trying to kill Thanos (for 7 full panels Odin made no action against Thanos when he had him down and vulnerable; Odin could have easily driven Gungnir through the back of Thanos's neck during this period of time) and since Odin is not a cold blooded killer (like Tyrant is) Thanos wouldnt have any fear for his life as Odin wouldnt kill him unless he absolutely had to...

So again, I think we need more DP Tyrant showings; I fully believe he is a Mid Level Skyfather bare minimum and if he were shown to be a high Skyfather or beyond, I wouldnt be surprised at all as he is very clearly a badmuthaf***er...

The thing is that the entire battle between Tyrant at full power vs Galactus was never published. Galactus may have won that battle via plot device.. who knows for certain? The question here is whether the construct can defeat the maker.

All three of you : LoM, Stoic, and Kurupt have excellent points. I agree with LoM that we need more showings by Tyrant (DP or otherwise) to be more confident in his placing powerwise vs Odin/Zeus.

BUT

I also agree with Stoic and Kurupt. Galactus was PUNKED by DP Tryant when Galactus arrived all high and mighty DEMANDING his herald back, and we all saw how that turned out.

Galactus PREPED to take on DP Tyrant, I've never seen that before. With that in mind :
This dude was taking it to Mephisto and Agamotto in their own realms of power. He's gone one on one with the IB after recovering from a coma. Taken by surprise, he held his own vs Teneberous. He was the last man standing vs the Galactus Engine when all the other cosmics facing it either were destroyed or fled.

And Stoic has a very good point, it says Galacuts won in the narration all those eons ago, it doesn't say HOW he won. Seeing how he fared vs DP Tyrant, it wouldn't be far fetched to say he won by using a plot device the first time.

Yeah, DP Tyrant is hard to place. I see him above the likes of Thanos, Void, Onslaught, but I don't know how he really compares to Odin and Zeus.

I'm not even sure Void is such a weak link if this is unleashed Void who doesn't want to die. If he was so vulnerable to TP, I don't think the heroes would have been so worried about him given the number of telepaths that could be called up against him if it came to a fight. Certainly the writers of that What-If didn't seem to think that telepaths would stop him (I know, it's just a What-If but still).

@Stoic and zopzop....

Thing is, there is zero evidence that a plot device was used when Galactus defeated Full Power Tyrant...

When Thanos was watching the battle between the two on his monitor, the battle ended with Galactus blasting him to kingdom come with eye beams (which Tyrant didnt absorb apparently, so Galactus was smart enough at one point in time to alter the energy type that he used against Tyrant so that it wouldnt be absorbed), then seizing Tyrant by the throat...


With that said, I still contend that Tyrant punking Galactus was pure PIS by virtue of the fact that the writter that wrote that had Galactus "forgetting" that Tyrant could absorb BSE (and anyone halfway intelligent would have altered the energy type before attacking; Galactus himself had the presence of mind to do just that at one point in time as he did against Full Power Tyrant)...

This same incompetent writter had Galactus "forgetting" that his machinery would be ineffective against Tyrant as he was a high end technopath; once again, any halfway intelligent character on Marvel Earth would have immediately made their tech immune to Tyrants power...especially after he established himself as a threat.


In conclusion, the writter that wrote the Depowered Tyrant storyline wrote Galactus very badly as it makes absolutely no sense that Galactus could handle and defeat Full Powered Tyrant, but allow Depowered Tyrant to punk him...

Galactus's noobish tactics against DP Tyrant are even worse; its one of the greatest uses of PIS to make other characters relevant to a story that I'd seen in a long time...

I just dont see how anyone can make a logical argument that Galactus wasnt written badly here; a well fed Galactus should crush Depowered Tyrant...

You would have a point of it being PIS.... if all the other narration WASN'T there backing up that Tyrant was a legit threat to Galactus and he was very concerned. Problem is there is narration backing up what happened on panel (Tyrant was a legit threat to Galactus) Furthermore, you would have a point if there was narration stating that the reason Tyrant was a threat was because he could absorb BSE energy and thus a big threat. There was ZERO narration like that, and the reason why, is beccause Galactus absorbs the same BSE. Thus it wasn't an advantage for either party

In fact, the narration backs up exactly what happened on panel, which was Tyrant was a legit threat to Galactus because he had regained a lot of his former power. That is exactly what he was doing for thousands of years and further shown by his leeching of the heralds. The main thing stripped from him was being imprisoned in a small body.. but he had spent thousands of years getting back the power Galactus took away.

Lastly, the narration as I laid out baks up this exact poing of Tyrant conerning Galactus. Galactus is very well connected to the Universe and has the PC to further analyze things.. The first time he encountered Tyrant.. he backed down from him and let him take his herald. His reason.. Galaxies would be destroyed in the collateral damage. That speaks to them BOTH unleashing a lot of power. Consistent again with him being a legit threat.

Then we have Galactus feeding and prepping for his battle. Something he's rarely ever done on panel. Usually he isn't concerned about threats like Mephisto, EGO, IN betweener etc etc. He is usually condescending and unconcerned. A stark contrast to how he behaved around Tyrant. Jesus the writer spells this poing out over and over that Tyrant is a legit and powerful enemy through narration and Galactus own actions. Surfer who knows both of their powers VERY WELL... Stated... He must hurry up and get to their battle before THEY BOTH destroy each other. Clearly Surfer also realized how powerful Tyrant was and feared for Galactus. All the narration points to one undeniable thing... Tyrant was really powerful and a real threat that concerned Galactus. The fight played out just like that and can't be labeled PIS because of those facts. Galactus got fox'd plain and simple.

Team 2 still

Team 1 still

I guess we agree to disagree Thanosi...

I just cant get passed the fact that everything you wrote pertaining to the Depowered Tyrant/Galactus storyline was written by the same guy who made Galactus "forget" Tyrants powerset...

DP Tyrant's blast did nothing to Galactus; the battle ended poorly for Big G due to DP Tyrant using G's machines against him, which is a plot device in the literal sense.

Thanos watched the battle between FP Tyrant and Galactus on Tyrant's own personal recording (Tyrant's computer on his Fortress). No indication was made that there was any kind of plot device involved, or even hinted at, either in narration or through the artistic depiction. Neither has the point been revisited or expounded on some 17 years after the fact. So the burden of proof is on those who would argue that there was a plot device...and the safer interpretation is that there was none; that is what is supported on-panel.

The battle with DP Tyrant was undoubtedly poorly written; Tyrant was introduced during Ron Marz's run and the threat level and credibility was established then. IIRC Marz also wrote Cosmic Powers where Big G and FP Tyrant fought.

Mark Lackey wrote the issue where DP Tyrant confronted Big G. As for the quality of the writing...all I have to say is that Mark Lackey wrote Morg as having a stereotypical street thug's vocabulary ("youse", etc.). Nuff said.

Anyway, this is a pretty even match. I don't see how Void can be dismissed so easily; he bested Molecule Man.

Well P.C. the facts are the narration makes it clear it was a legit threat and galactus was fearful of him. The fight played out just as the narration indicated. You can't just dismiss the narration because you don't like the writer... doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well P.C. the facts are the narration makes it clear it was a legit threat and galactus was fearful of him. The fight played out just as the narration indicated. You can't just dismiss the narration because you don't like the writer... doesn't work that way. Galactus being fearful of tyrant is nothing to be ashamed of. Galactus being fearful of DP tyrant is just not right.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Galactus being fearful of tyrant is nothing to be ashamed of. Galactus being fearful of DP tyrant is just not right.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Galactus being fearful of tyrant is nothing to be ashamed of. Galactus being fearful of DP tyrant is just not right. Your opinions on the matter doesn't change the writer's intent.

Originally posted by iceman24567


Why is that? People don't realize that yes Galactus depowered him into a smaller body and took power away from him. However, he REGAINED most of that power for the next thousands of years.. That is what he was doing.. gaining that power back, Hence, why he was siphoning power from the heralds. The permanent thing was encasing him in a smaller body. Okay, but he has been regaining power for thousnads of years since being depowered and clearly gained most of it back, which is why galactus was fearful. So this notion that Galactus should have nothing to fear is totally false and he did have something to fear it turned out. The narration was backed up by the actions. Two things you can't dismiss. Period.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Why is that? People don't realize that yes Galactus depowered him into a smaller body and took power away from him. However, he REGAINED most of that power for the next thousands of years.. That is what he was doing.. gaining that power back, Hence, why he was siphoning power from the heralds. The permanent thing was encasing him in a smaller body. Okay, but he has been regaining power for thousnads of years since being depowered and clearly gained most of it back, which is why galactus was fearful. So this notion that Galactus should have nothing to fear is totally false and he did have something to fear it turned out. The narration was backed up by the actions. Two things you can't dismiss. Period. The narration says he feared him becauae of him regaining power? No it doesnt thats all your opinion period

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your opinions on the matter doesn't change the writer's intent. This has nothing to do with what I posted .

It's not OPINION that he has been gaining his power back since being depowered. That is EXACTLY what the narration and actions make clear he was doing and has been doing. The next logical step would be.. if he's gained power back.. galactus would be more concerned facing that then a DP Tyrant he just depowered. I didn't think logic needed exact narration.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
This has nothing to do with what I posted . You acting like Galactus being afraid of Tyrant being wrong conflicts with the writer's intent.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You acting like Galactus being afraid of Tyrant being wrong conflicts with the writer's intent. Galactus being afraid of DP tyrant, like I said, is not right. Based on feats he should stomp DP tyrant.

Why is that? DP had regained a lot of his power. That is what he was doing for thousands of years before meeting his father again. Thus, what is wrong with Galactus being afraid of Tyrant when he has been restoring his power to what it once was this whole time?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It's not OPINION that he has been gaining his power back since being depowered. That is EXACTLY what the narration and actions make clear he was doing and has been doing. The next logical step would be.. if he's gained power back.. galactus would be more concerned facing that then a DP Tyrant he just depowered. I didn't think logic needed exact narration. No the reason you think Galactus fears him is opinion you can try to twist what was said to support your opinion but I aint buyin wha you sellin brah

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Why is that? DP had regained a lot of his power. That is what he was doing for thousands of years before meeting his father again. Thus, what is wrong with Galactus being afraid of Tyrant when he has been restoring his power to what it once was this whole time?

The power is irrelevant since Galactus bested him at the height of his powers, and by fact DP Tyrant<<<FP Tyrant, regardless of the millennia that had passed spent rejuvenating himself.

Also add to the fact that Tyrant's own personal power was ineffectual in their conflict (the one blast tyrant landed did no harm) and Tyrant eventually wins through poor writing.

And before you Tyrant and Thanos apologists cry out that it wasn't poor writing, the manner in which Tyrant won..absorbing G's blasts and then G being impatient and using his machines to syphon Tyrant's energies, and Tyrant in turn turning Big G's machines against him, wreaks of PIS and CIS.

Lackey conveniently dismisses the fact that Tyrant, in the original retelling of the battle by Marz, sustains blast after blast from Big G, yet doesn't gain sustenance from it.

He also instills an embarrassing moment of PIS when Galactus conveniently forgets the abilities of Tyrant...you know...a creature Galactus made IN HIS OWN IMAGE? You can't be serious with that shit.

I have no problem with DP Tyrant besting G, provided it's written well. This obviously was not and ranks up their with Scathan the Approver in terms of mis-characterization and is nearly up there with the Thani-copter nonsense...i.e., 1-time writers being brought in who have no idea of the characters they're writing about.

Marz was building up the tension well in Tyran'ts debut. G and Tyrant don't throw down due to the potential collateral damage.

Suddenly, Marz is off the book and Lackey comes in with his garbage. The writer doesn't know what he's writing about, that doesn't mean I have to take the book at face value.

It's in the same vein as mcduffie writing that issue of FF where he has Uatu stating the Ultimate Nullifier is his, and that Silver Surfer has the internal physiology of a normal human being.

Utter nonsense. The fact that it's printed doesn't excuse it from criticism or debate.

Let me get this straight.. You are okay with Marz building up the tension by various narration and events... Narration and events that make IT CLEAR beyond a doubt that Galactus is concerned about facing Tyrant. You aren't concerend about fighting somebody you are clearly above with ease. The narration and on panel evidence point to Galactus CLEARLY feeling Tyrant was a legit threat.. Yet when Lackey come in there and continues this line of thought through narration and events.. you now have a problem with that? Huh?

Second, of course it matters that Tyrant has been regaining more of his power.. that means he's close or at full strength to where is was. Of course minus being encased in a smaller body which can never ben changed. Galactus obviously can sense power levels and would be much more fearful of battling someone again in which a battle took thousands of years to decide a winner and galaxies were destroyed as a side effect to a battle. Of course he would be concered about facing a foe like that. Furthermore your logic is unsound that just because Galactus won the first battle he would be unconcerned about battling Tyrant again. That isn't true in real life nor in comics. Just because DS beats superman in one encounter doesn't mean he would be unconcerned about facing him again. Just because Spiderman beats Venon doesn't mean he would be unconcerned about facing him again. In real life, just because Pac beats JMM or Eric M once didn't mean he was unconcerned about facing him again. When you face a tough foe in real life or in comics.. things and variables can change and thus change the outcome of a fight. You are still concerned. Period.

Lastly, if you want to say throw out a fight because somebody didn't use all their abilities.. or were stuipd enough to "let" themselves be hit by a punch or a blast they couldn't blocked or dodged... then we would throw out 90% of the fights in comics and be left with very little material we call canon. As it stands, that isn't how things are viewed nor debated, and thus this.. it was PIS because he tried a tactic that didn't work.. just doesn't fly.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
The power is irrelevant since Galactus bested him at the height of his powers, and by fact DP Tyrant<<<FP Tyrant, regardless of the millennia that had passed spent rejuvenating himself.

Also add to the fact that Tyrant's own personal power was ineffectual in their conflict (the one blast tyrant landed did no harm) and Tyrant eventually wins through poor writing.

And before you Tyrant and Thanos apologists cry out that it wasn't poor writing, the manner in which Tyrant won..absorbing G's blasts and then G being impatient and using his machines to syphon Tyrant's energies, and Tyrant in turn turning Big G's machines against him, wreaks of PIS and CIS.

Lackey conveniently dismisses the fact that Tyrant, in the original retelling of the battle by Marz, sustains blast after blast from Big G, yet doesn't gain sustenance from it.

He also instills an embarrassing moment of PIS when Galactus conveniently forgets the abilities of Tyrant...you know...a creature Galactus made IN HIS OWN IMAGE? You can't be serious with that shit.

I have no problem with DP Tyrant besting G, provided it's written well. This obviously was not and ranks up their with Scathan the Approver in terms of mis-characterization and is nearly up there with the Thani-copter nonsense...i.e., 1-time writers being brought in who have no idea of the characters they're writing about.

Marz was building up the tension well in Tyran'ts debut. G and Tyrant don't throw down due to the potential collateral damage.

Suddenly, Marz is off the book and Lackey comes in with his garbage. The writer doesn't know what he's writing about, that doesn't mean I have to take the book at face value.

It's in the same vein as mcduffie writing that issue of FF where he has Uatu stating the Ultimate Nullifier is his, and that Silver Surfer has the internal physiology of a normal human being.

Utter nonsense. The fact that it's printed doesn't excuse it from criticism or debate.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Let me get this straight.. You are okay with Marz building up the tension by various narration and events... Narration and events that make IT CLEAR beyond a doubt that Galactus is concerned about facing Tyrant. You aren't concerend about fighting somebody you are clearly above with ease. The narration and on panel evidence point to Galactus CLEARLY feeling Tyrant was a legit threat.. Yet when Lackey come in there and continues this line of thought through narration and events.. you now have a problem with that? Huh?

Second, of course it matters that Tyrant has been regaining more of his power.. that means he's close or at full strength to where is was. Of course minus being encased in a smaller body which can never ben changed. Galactus obviously can sense power levels and would be much more fearful of battling someone again in which a battle took thousands of years to decide a winner and galaxies were destroyed as a side effect to a battle. Of course he would be concered about facing a foe like that. Furthermore your logic is unsound that just because Galactus won the first battle he would be unconcerned about battling Tyrant again. That isn't true in real life nor in comics. Just because DS beats superman in one encounter doesn't mean he would be unconcerned about facing him again. Just because Spiderman beats Venon doesn't mean he would be unconcerned about facing him again. In real life, just because Pac beats JMM or Eric M once didn't mean he was unconcerned about facing him again. When you face a tough foe in real life or in comics.. things and variables can change and thus change the outcome of a fight. You are still concerned. Period.

Lastly, if you want to say throw out a fight because somebody didn't use all their abilities.. or were stuipd enough to "let" themselves be hit by a punch or a blast they couldn't blocked or dodged... then we would throw out 90% of the fights in comics and be left with very little material we call canon. As it stands, that isn't how things are viewed nor debated, and thus this.. it was PIS because he tried a tactic that didn't work.. just doesn't fly.

No. The difference is that Marz portrayed Galactus to be prudent and judicious with his actions when DP Tyrant confronted him. He determined the collateral damage would not be acceptable. Look how furious Galactus was when DP Tyrant confronted him. Galactus never gets angry, and it's even rarer for him to check his anger. The two parties parlayed and agreed to go their separate ways in peace-for the time being.

Fast Forward to Lackey and the battle suddenly ignores their prior battle with no substantiating evidence previously introduced. When did Tyrant have the ability to absorb G's blasts? When was that introduced as a plot point? How was it introduced during the fight? You're arguing based on the blanket statement that 90% of comics is injected with PIS and CIS which is absolutely false.

Your analogy is also completely irrelevant because Tyrant is Galactus' CREATION. It was explicitly stated on panel that G made Tyrant in HIS OWN IMAGE. DS and Supes are from totally different planets. Venom and Spider-Man were both reporters, that's all they had in common. Totally different scenarios.

Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers and obviously G approached confrontation with Tyrant with great care under Marz's run but all of a sudden turns to his machines under Lackey because he "tires" of the conflict?

Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers using blasts, etc. under Marz but all of a sudden Tyrant gets rejuvenated by the same blasts under Lackey?

Galactus turns his machines due to impatience, despite all the care and restraint that he displayed under marz, yet lackey has him use his machines against Tyrant in a fit of childish impatience and also doubles that with forgetting the powers he instilled in Tyrant?

You can't get around this argument. If Tyrant spent millennia regaining his powers, no where did it state that he added new powers, or diversified his abilities, etc. It ONLY stated he was regaining his powers that he had *formerly lost*. Logic demands that those powers, which were formerly lost, were granted to him by Galactus and those seem powers were bested by Galactus in their earlier conflict.

Does that mean automatic victory? Of course not and that is not what I was arguing as you assumed. What that means is that no where in the encounter with DP Tyrant did lackey demonstrate any knowledge of the characters' history, as laid down by Marz.

Or do you decide to throw PIS and CIS out the window, like you're doing now, when Thanos was arrested by the NYPD and led away in hand-cuffs?

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
No. The difference is that Marz portrayed Galactus to be prudent and judicious with his actions when DP Tyrant confronted him. He determined the collateral damage would not be acceptable. Look how furious Galactus was when DP Tyrant confronted him. Galactus never gets angry, and it's even rarer for him to check his anger. The two parties parlayed and agreed to go their separate ways in peace-for the time being.

Fast Forward to Lackey and the battle suddenly ignores their prior battle with no substantiating evidence previously introduced. When did Tyrant have the ability to absorb G's blasts? When was that introduced as a plot point? How was it introduced during the fight? You're arguing based on the blanket statement that 90% of comics is injected with PIS and CIS which is absolutely false.

Your analogy is also completely irrelevant because Tyrant is Galactus' CREATION. It was explicitly stated on panel that G made Tyrant in HIS OWN IMAGE. DS and Supes are from totally different planets. Venom and Spider-Man were both reporters, that's all they had in common. Totally different scenarios.

Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers and obviously G approached confrontation with Tyrant with great care under Marz's run but all of a sudden turns to his machines under Lackey because he "tires" of the conflict?

Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers using blasts, etc. under Marz but all of a sudden Tyrant gets rejuvenated by the same blasts under Lackey?

Galactus turns his machines due to impatience, despite all the care and restraint that he displayed under marz, yet lackey has him use his machines against Tyrant in a fit of childish impatience and also doubles that with forgetting the powers he instilled in Tyrant?

You can't get around this argument. If Tyrant spent millennia regaining his powers, no where did it state that he added new powers, or diversified his abilities, etc. It ONLY stated he was regaining his powers that he had *formerly lost*. Logic demands that those powers, which were formerly lost, were granted to him by Galactus and those seem powers were bested by Galactus in their earlier conflict.

Does that mean automatic victory? Of course not and that is not what I was arguing as you assumed. What that means is that no where in the encounter with DP Tyrant did lackey demonstrate any knowledge of the characters' history, as laid down by Marz.

Or do you decide to throw PIS and CIS out the window, like you're doing now, when Thanos was arrested by the NYPD and led away in hand-cuffs?

Actually you very much implied and said exactly what I thought you did friend. You said, it doesn't matter if Tyrant was regaining his powers.. Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers (which is actually an assumption on your part, I will get this later). Point is, by making such a statement you are saying Dp tyrant powre levels are of no concern since Galactus already beat him. As I point out in my analogies which are indisputable... just because you beat someone the first time.. doesn't mean you're unconcerned or will beat them a second time. Variables change in each distinct fight, and thus outcomes can change just as easily. Thus, if the original fight between them took hundreds of years to determine a winner.. what does that say.. it was a long drawn out fight between two relative equals. When things are that close, outcomes can certainly change very easily. Something I'm sure Galactus wa well aware of, and thus the wirter was very spot on in that regard.

In regards, to the height of his power, you have to remember there was no specific time table on how long after his creation did that fight take place. It could've been a 100 years after his creation.. could've been 50, or a thousand. Point is, we have no indication it was the height of his powers. For example, if the fight took place lets say 100 years after his creation... I would say that version of Tyrant was less powerful than one that has been regaining most of hiw power.. and has had thousands of years to perfect and hoen his powers even more. Thus he would be a lot more formidable if that were the case than the original fight. This seemed to be the exact case as tyrant has been actively regaining his power and I'm sure planning to fight his father again. Why would it be a surprise to you that he's now learned how to absorb BSE energy through blast? That doesn't seem like a very tough thing for somebody of his power level and knowledge to do. After all, as you stated he was made in Galctus own image.. and thus super intelligent and intimantly connnected to the universe as it's dynamics. Doesn't seem all that hard to believe he could develop such a technique specifically to face his father, somebody who he's been preparing to fight for thousands of years. When surfer first displayed the power to find a cure for a disease as the DNA level.. we don't go.. he learned and devoloped a new power.. we go.. he's found a new way to use the PC and perfected other abilities that comes with the PC. Yet this can't be the case for Tyrant? Come on bro

Lastly, that is exactly what you're trying to do by throwing out a fight just because Galactus didn't fight like you think he should. So my premise and conclusion is spot on... that if we did what you're proposing we would throw out 90% of comic book fights and have no evidence to debate about. Do you know how many fights characters who we know most of their powers and what they can do, don't fight the way we would want them to fight? All the time, yet that isn't a reason to throw them out as PIS or CIS. In fact, the forum rules contradict that very premise. Just because superman get hit by a blast that he could've dodged, doesn't mean that was CIS or PIS. Thus, no, that fight isn't indicative of PIS or CIS just because Galactus didn't fight as smart as he could have. The fact is, Marz made Tyrant out to be a very powerful and formidable foe. Lackey continued that SAME line of thought through narration and actions just like Marz did. They both beyond a shadow of a doubt felt Tyrant was a powerful and dangerous foe and this was true for both of them. The fight played out exactly like that, and thus I see no issue with it.

OMFG. How is this still being argued?

DP Tyrant punked then went on to almost kill a fully fed Galactus. In the flashback narration of Galactus beating Tyrant nothing much was shown. Like Kurupt said, you can argue the only reason FP Tyrant lost to Galactus was because he was still new to his powers. DP Tyrant had eons to hone his skills and acquire power.

In their later encounters, DP Tyrant humiliated Galactus by refusing to hand over his herald and then a few issues later almost killing Galactus.

I totally agree Zop

Tyrant>Odin
Zeus>Thanos
Void>Onslaught

team 1 cant loose

Originally posted by zopzop
OMFG. How is this still being argued?

DP Tyrant punked then went on to almost kill a fully fed Galactus. In the flashback narration of Galactus beating Tyrant nothing much was shown. Like Kurupt said, you can argue the only reason FP Tyrant lost to Galactus was because he was still new to his powers. DP Tyrant had eons to hone his skills and acquire power.

In their later encounters, DP Tyrant humiliated Galactus by refusing to hand over his herald and then a few issues later almost killing Galactus. Yeah, it's clear when we saw an actual battle that Galactus was prepared for he he lost. Morg knew he was probably going to lose hence his involvement. Surfer also suspected he could lose so the point was made clear Tyrant can beat Galactus.

The first fight was off panel mainly.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually you very much implied and said exactly what I thought you did friend. You said, it doesn't matter if Tyrant was regaining his powers.. Galactus bested Tyrant at the height of his powers (which is actually an assumption on your part, I will get this later). Point is, by making such a statement you are saying Dp tyrant powre levels are of no concern since Galactus already beat him. As I point out in my analogies which are indisputable... just because you beat someone the first time.. doesn't mean you're unconcerned or will beat them a second time. Variables change in each distinct fight, and thus outcomes can change just as easily. Thus, if the original fight between them took hundreds of years to determine a winner.. what does that say.. it was a long drawn out fight between two relative equals. When things are that close, outcomes can certainly change very easily. Something I'm sure Galactus wa well aware of, and thus the wirter was very spot on in that regard.

In regards, to the height of his power, you have to remember there was no specific time table on how long after his creation did that fight take place. It could've been a 100 years after his creation.. could've been 50, or a thousand. Point is, we have no indication it was the height of his powers. For example, if the fight took place lets say 100 years after his creation... I would say that version of Tyrant was less powerful than one that has been regaining most of hiw power.. and has had thousands of years to perfect and hoen his powers even more. Thus he would be a lot more formidable if that were the case than the original fight. This seemed to be the exact case as tyrant has been actively regaining his power and I'm sure planning to fight his father again. Why would it be a surprise to you that he's now learned how to absorb BSE energy through blast? That doesn't seem like a very tough thing for somebody of his power level and knowledge to do. After all, as you stated he was made in Galctus own image.. and thus super intelligent and intimantly connnected to the universe as it's dynamics. Doesn't seem all that hard to believe he could develop such a technique specifically to face his father, somebody who he's been preparing to fight for thousands of years. When surfer first displayed the power to find a cure for a disease as the DNA level.. we don't go.. he learned and devoloped a new power.. we go.. he's found a new way to use the PC and perfected other abilities that comes with the PC. Yet this can't be the case for Tyrant? Come on bro

Lastly, that is exactly what you're trying to do by throwing out a fight just because Galactus didn't fight like you think he should. So my premise and conclusion is spot on... that if we did what you're proposing we would throw out 90% of comic book fights and have no evidence to debate about. Do you know how many fights characters who we know most of their powers and what they can do, don't fight the way we would want them to fight? All the time, yet that isn't a reason to throw them out as PIS or CIS. In fact, the forum rules contradict that very premise. Just because superman get hit by a blast that he could've dodged, doesn't mean that was CIS or PIS. Thus, no, that fight isn't indicative of PIS or CIS just because Galactus didn't fight as smart as he could have. The fact is, Marz made Tyrant out to be a very powerful and formidable foe. Lackey continued that SAME line of thought through narration and actions just like Marz did. They both beyond a shadow of a doubt felt Tyrant was a powerful and dangerous foe and this was true for both of them. The fight played out exactly like that, and thus I see no issue with it.

The difference is that there's a lot of assumption in your post. And again, the fact that you use the term "regain" alludes to the fact that he lost something which he formally possessed. It's stated on panel that Galactus stripped FP Tyrant of "much" of his power after their battle as portrayed in Cosmic Powers. Anything Tyrant did after that fact was in fact spent taking his powers back to the heights they were when he confronted Galactus. Also, I don't know where you get the 100s of years thing from. There's a common misconception on this board that FP Tyrant vs. Galactus took centuries...in fact it was the spinsterhood with ganymede whose conflict with Tyrant spanned centuries, not FP Tyrant's battle with Galactus.

The PC allows for a variety of effects but for one thing, it was never stated or implied that Galactus granted Tyrant the PC. Now, I can accept the fact that Tyrant developed new capabilities, but what you're arguing is akin to Surfer demonstrating the ability to absorb Galactus' blasts, and no narrative explanation is given other than some "you fool, you forgot I had the ability to do this" cop out. Ok. When did he get it? How did he get it? Can we get something more substantive than "you fool, you forgot?" It's not as if you slip in a monumental change like absorbing and strengthening yourself from the same exact agent that stripped you of the vast majority of your powers to begin with without some narrative explanation. The Surfer can do almost anything but again, what you're arguing for is the Surfer suddenly having the power to adapt himself to Galactus' powers, something he has never ever been shown able to do.

So Tyrant can do it. Previously, he couldn't. Fine. How did it happen? Where was it shown? In other words, is there anything to substantiate that he suddenly gained the ability aside from the reader forcing himself to make assumptions, as you've done? Nope, there's none. That's called bad writing, when you force the reader to make explanations for what's happening in the plot.

And again, you're not getting the point. This isn't about character x using powers against character y. Galactus KNOWS Tyrant. This is like you saying if Batman doesn't use kryptonite against Superman, it's not a case of PIS or CIS.

Except in this battle, Galactus forgot Tyrant's abilities, where no evidence was given that he gained new ones, and as cautious as Galactus was in the first meeting with DP Tyrant (written by Marz), Tyrant was equally as reluctant. Why then would Tyrant be that reluctant if he had the ability to absorb G's blasts from the onset?.

@Power Cosmic II

To me and you, the PIS and poor writing involved with the Galactus/DP Tyrant storyline is very clear and evident, but Thanosi, zopzop, and Quan dont see it...

Classic case of agree to disagree it seems...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Power Cosmic II

To me and you, the PIS and poor writing involved with the Galactus/DP Tyrant storyline is very clear and evident, but Thanosi, zopzop, and Quan dont see it...

Classic case of agree to disagree it seems...

Oh I see it but it doesn't make it any less valid. When Xorn annihilated Jean with the FULL Phoenix Force (the embodiment of life/rebirth and the focal point of all psionic energy in the MULTIVERSE) was it PIS? Of course, but did it happen on panel and was it referenced later? Yes. Don't like it, but you still got to live with it.

The point with DP Tyrant vs Galactus is that he, Tyrant, punked him in their first encounter since his exile then later went on to almost KILL him. It wasn't just a one time deal.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
The difference is that there's a lot of assumption in your post. And again, the fact that you use the term "regain" alludes to the fact that he lost something which he formally possessed. It's stated on panel that Galactus stripped FP Tyrant of "much" of his power after their battle as portrayed in Cosmic Powers. Anything Tyrant did after that fact was in fact spent taking his powers back to the heights they were when he confronted Galactus. Also, I don't know where you get the 100s of years thing from. There's a common misconception on this board that FP Tyrant vs. Galactus took centuries...in fact it was the spinsterhood with ganymede whose conflict with Tyrant spanned centuries, not FP Tyrant's battle with Galactus.

The PC allows for a variety of effects but for one thing, it was never stated or implied that Galactus granted Tyrant the PC. Now, I can accept the fact that Tyrant developed new capabilities, but what you're arguing is akin to Surfer demonstrating the ability to absorb Galactus' blasts, and no narrative explanation is given other than some "you fool, you forgot I had the ability to do this" cop out. Ok. When did he get it? How did he get it? Can we get something more substantive than "you fool, you forgot?" It's not as if you slip in a monumental change like absorbing and strengthening yourself from the same exact agent that stripped you of the vast majority of your powers to begin with without some narrative explanation. The Surfer can do almost anything but again, what you're arguing for is the Surfer suddenly having the power to adapt himself to Galactus' powers, something he has never ever been shown able to do.

So Tyrant can do it. Previously, he couldn't. Fine. How did it happen? Where was it shown? In other words, is there anything to substantiate that he suddenly gained the ability aside from the reader forcing himself to make assumptions, as you've done? Nope, there's none. That's called bad writing, when you force the reader to make explanations for what's happening in the plot.

And again, you're not getting the point. This isn't about character x using powers against character y. Galactus KNOWS Tyrant. This is like you saying if Batman doesn't use kryptonite against Superman, it's not a case of PIS or CIS.

Except in this battle, Galactus forgot Tyrant's abilities, where no evidence was given that he gained new ones, and as cautious as Galactus was in the first meeting with DP Tyrant (written by Marz), Tyrant was equally as reluctant. Why then would Tyrant be that reluctant if he had the ability to absorb G's blasts from the onset?.

A few things... can you please post the scan of it not saying the battle between the two took centuries to decide and it was in fact battle with gayn people. Thanks

Second, I'm not sure how you can say you don't believe Tyrant was given the power cosmic lol. He was MADE in Galactus image.. or are you saying Galactus doesn't have PC in himself.. which I hope that isn't what you're saying. If you give your heralds a small portion of PC, then it's abundantly clear you would give someone you made in your image to be your equal vast amounts of more PC. Furthermore, it seems you are taking two sides.. one of... sure surfer or anybody else can demonstrate new abilities.. but then go... I just don't like this new ability Tyrant got and I wanted it discussed on how n why he got it... We all know it doesn't work that way. You were correct in your concession that new abilities are demonstrated all the time with no talk about where, how, when they learned this new ability. Just because you wanted them to talk about it more in depth, doesn't make it any less valid of a new ability.

To answer your last question.. I think the answer to your question could be very simple. Galactus has a lot of other abilities that just blasting people. Seems very plausible that this is why Tyrant didn't think it was a fait accompli that he'd win just because he can absorb Big G's blasts.

Again, you can't get around the fact that you're arguing PIS for something that happens in virtually EVERY comic. People forget abilities, forget others abilities, don't fight smart or tactical etc etc.. This happens in virtually ever fight in comics. Yet, by forum rules, we don't just label all these instances as PIS or CIS and throw them out. If we did so, we'd have nothing really to use as evidence. That is the case here friend, just because you don't like how Big G fought or tyrant getting an ability that was discussed doesn't dismiss the fight as PIS or CIS. The fact is, narration proves Big G was afraid of a confrontation with Tyrant and viewed him as a dangerous foe... The narration by him and others make this clear. The fight backed up those statements.. not the other way around.

Odin > Tyrant
Onslaught > Zeus
Thanos > Void
Team two cant lose

Gotta give it to team 2, but not by much. Good fight.

@Kurupt Thanosi

So you believe Galactus "forgetting" Tyrants powerset was not epic PIS?

We are not talking about a normal human here or even a highly intelligent human; both of whom are prone to forget things...

We are talking about a being thats Semi-Abstract and is one of the Astral Deities of the Universe...

Galactus is an energy being; he doesnt have neurons and neuron receptors that either misfire or fail to recieve a signal like humans do (and thus cause us to either not recall info at all or cause us to recall it very slowly)...

Beings like this arent supposed to "forget" things, especially something as important as the strengths and weaknesses of a being Galactus considers a major threat...


Dude, that encounter stinks of PIS...

I can accept Galactus losing to DP Tyrant provided its written well and makes sense, but the way that writter made Galactus lose just oozes bad writing...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Kurupt Thanosi

So you believe Galactus "forgetting" Tyrants powerset was not epic PIS?

We are not talking about a normal human here or even a highly intelligent human; both of whom are prone to forget things...

We are talking about a being thats Semi-Abstract and is one of the Astral Deities of the Universe...

Galactus is an energy being; he doesnt have neurons and neuron receptors that either misfire or fail to recieve a signal like humans do (and thus cause us to either not recall info at all or cause us to recall it very slowly)...

Beings like this arent supposed to "forget" things, especially something as important as the strengths and weaknesses of a being Galactus considers a major threat...


Dude, that encounter stinks of PIS...

I can accept Galactus losing to DP Tyrant provided its written well and makes sense, but the way that writter made Galactus lose just oozes bad writing...

But Galactus is NOTORIOUSLY inconsistent in the way he is portrayed in his appearances. He's supposedly a semi-abstract one time, the other time he's a physical being that has a skeletal structure and blood, other times he's a being of pure energy.

The fact remains, even in their first encounter after Tyrant's exile, Galactus blinked, not DP Tyrant. The Silver Surfer was conscious and asked Galactus why he allowed DP Tyrant to humiliate him like that or something.

DP Tyrant punked then went on to own a fully fed Galactus. Aside from that one encounter all those eons ago that was only recalled partially in a flashback, Galactus has never won a fight vs Tyrant.

@zopzop

I cant change the fact that it was written and that it happened, but just recognize it for the PIS that is it...

All those other inconsistencies (like Galactus having a skeletal structure) pertaining Galactus are PIS too; unfortunately, Galactus has been subject to tons and tons of PIS over the decades...

And just because he's been written badly and inconsistently doesnt make it acceptable (or believable) to write him as having brain dead moments where he "forgets" very important details...


Again, if the story demands that Galactus loses to DP Tyrant and requires help, thats fine as other characters must be made relavent to the story as well, but atleast have a situation that makes sense; Galactus forgetting Tyrants powerset made no sense at all and ranks as one of the worst PIS moments in the Big-G's history...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@zopzop

I cant change the fact that it was written and that it happened, but just recognize it for the PIS that is it...

All those other inconsistencies (like Galactus having a skeletal structure) pertaining Galactus are PIS too; unfortunately, Galactus has been subject to tons and tons of PIS over the decades...

And just because he's been written badly and inconsistently doesnt make it acceptable (or believable) to write him as having brain dead moments where he "forgets" very important details...


Again, if the story demands that Galactus loses to DP Tyrant and requires help, thats fine as other characters must be made relavent to the story as well, but atleast have a situation that makes sense; Galactus forgetting Tyrants powerset made no sense at all and ranks as one of the worst PIS moments in the Big-G's history...

Actually the WORST moment in Galactus' history was when he was being stalemated by Quasar (I don't know what issue that was in but the scan was posted on these boards). Now that's absolutely humiliating. Or the time Thanos blasted him off his feat and miles across a moon or something, meanwhile Thanos was unable to even budge Odin.

But regarding Galactus vs Tyrant (any version) in their final encounter, no one and nothing could have saved Galactus from Tyrant except the UN.