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How does this go? Can Marvel stop Doomsday before he makes it too Metropolis? Will he be able to keep him down or even slow him down? Will Marvel die or will he survive? Can he kills DOS Doomsday?

I think Billy has a higher durability than Superman on average and maybe able to fight him without dieing. I don't think Marvel can stop him from getting to metropolis, but once they go toe to toe Billy will put him down. Didn't Marvel once fight inside out?

Marvel 8/10

Marvel beats the bricks off him

Captain Marvel.

Captain Marvel doesn't have better durability than Superman. Superman is > CM. Its one of the worst internet myths that they are equals.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Captain Marvel doesn't have better durability than Superman. Superman is > CM. Its one of the worst internet myths that they are equals.

I meant damage soak.......and who do you think would win?

And I still think Cap Marvel > Durability is greater

I think Doomsday wins this.

Superman believes he's equals with Cap and their encounters with one another support this more than the opposite, though.

.

Originally posted by PillarofMight
Hell no. How can they be equal? CM can't vibrate thru matter. He can't whistle comsic gods away. CM can't shoot hotter than star lasers. CM can't see or hear like Superman. CM can't build a city in seconds flat. CM can't fly from one star system to the next in minutes. **** no they are not equal. The only thing CM has on Superman is he's tougher to damage.


DO you think him or doomsday??

.

Originally posted by PillarofMight
Hell no. How can they be equal? CM can't vibrate thru matter. He can't whistle comsic gods away. CM can't shoot hotter than star lasers. CM can't see or hear like Superman. CM can't build a city in seconds flat. CM can't fly from one star system to the next in minutes. **** no they are not equal. The only thing CM has on Superman is he's tougher to damage.

Well, we are talking about DoS Doomsday here, so this was back before Superman could pull off feats like that, so it's really moot at least for this fight.

Originally posted by PillarofMight
Hell no. How can they be equal? CM can't vibrate thru matter. He can't whistle comsic gods away. CM can't shoot hotter than star lasers. CM can't see or hear like Superman. CM can't build a city in seconds flat. CM can't fly from one star system to the next in minutes. **** no they are not equal. The only thing CM has on Superman is he's tougher to damage.

Superman can't alter weather patterns and create storms through magical means, can't charge his fists with magical energy, doesn't possess a form of clairvoyance and have the ability to instantly know various facts of a wide variety of subjects, can't summon magical lightning bolts, can't alter his physical appearance though a sheer act of will, didn't become successor and keeper to the nexus of most of Earth's magical power, etc, etc. etc.

The fact of the matter is that Superman and DC comics alike considers Cap to be his equal and this has been shown, alluded, or stated through out the decades through virtually almost all of their encounters.

.

Originally posted by PillarofMight
CM can't do shit compared to Superman.

Except when's he fought him on even grounds.

.

Originally posted by PillarofMight
You mean when Superman has never went all out against CM. What would CM do if Superman were to start using his crazy speed advantage? Vibrating thru CM's attacks.

Probably bash his face in with magical fists, summon huge lightning bolts of magical power, likely stalemating him. Again.

DoS Doomsday goes down.

Didn't Superman say Cap's body was more formidable than his? I say Cap.

He can say anything he wants. Just because he said it, doesn't make it true. I can name plenty of things characters have said that's clearly not true. Besides which, Superman's also known for being modest.

Until someone shows me some durability feats from CM that match Superman's best durability feats, I don't think you'll be able to convince me he's more durable. Certainly not durable enough to take on this Doomsday (who himself would have beaten Superman one on one probably 8/10)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Captain Marvel.

It doesn't make it not true, either. Superman isn't going to talk out of his ass like that and not mean it.

Has Superman been turned inside out? Both Cap and Adam have been punched around by skyfather level beings and been able to stand up afterwards and kept on fighting. If anything, their durability is around the same. Billy can stand up to magic better, we all know that.

Both PC and Golden Age knock Superman out of the water.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
He can say anything he wants. Just because he said it, doesn't make it true. I can name plenty of things characters have said that's clearly not true. Besides which, Superman's also known for being modest.

Until someone shows me some durability feats from CM that match Superman's best durability feats, I don't think you'll be able to convince me he's more durable. Certainly not durable enough to take on this Doomsday (who himself would have beaten Superman one on one probably 8/10)

Didn't Captain Marvel fight turned inside out once though???

Originally posted by Prep-Man
It doesn't make it not true, either. Superman isn't going to talk out of his ass like that and not mean it.

Has Superman been turned inside out? Both Cap and Adam have been punched around by skyfather level beings and been able to stand up afterwards and kept on fighting. If anything, their durability is around the same. Billy can stand up to magic better, we all know that.

Both PC and Golden Age knock Superman out of the water.

A weakened Superman took a debatable portion of a blast that was equivalent of 50 supernovas. Even if it was 1/50th of it (i.e. one supernova) that's like taking billions of nuclears bombs at once. Granted that's a ridiculously high end feat, but still. Also, you can look at the track records of CANON fights the two have had, and you'll see that despite what many people mistakenly believe, Superman looks much better, and he also does against common opponents.

I will say you are right that he has better resistance to magic though, although Superman's has increased also...especially lately.

But still, this is Doomsday vs Captain Marvel. Doomsday isn't magical. Superman died fighting this doomsday, after this doomsday fought the JLA, and doomsday was distracted half of the fight with Superman. If you're telling me CM is beating Doomsday for a majority, I'm not sure how you're getting to that conclusion....

Which opponents have Cap looked bad against? He took quite a beating from Spectre (angry) for a while. Superman fell against Spectre, who isn't quite magic.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I will say you are right that he has better resistance to magic though, although Superman's has increased also...especially lately. Are you trying to imply Superman's magic resistance is close?

Also, issues where Superman gets the upper hand against Billy?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Which opponents have Cap looked bad against? He took quite a beating from Spectre (angry) for a while. Superman fell against Spectre, who isn't quite magic.

Not "bad" but has done worse than superman against them. Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman for 2 examples.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Not "bad" but has done worse than superman against them. Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman for 2 examples.

Superman has had some bad luck against both of those as well.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Are you trying to imply Superman's magic resistance is close?

Also, issues where Superman gets the upper hand against Billy?

Where did I say they were close? I love it when people put words into my mouth. I said Superman's magic resistance has increased...meaning RELATIVE TO HIS OWN OLD MAGIC RESISTANCE. This is indisputable. As for issue numbers, give me an hour and I'll find them. I have to dig through some comics.

Captain Marvel also fought off Wonder Woman and a good portion of the JLA while in hell with a broken arm AND the Power of Shazam being split multiple ways.

I am not sure but didnt Marvel have his way with Lobo? I maybe getting this confused with something else

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Where did I say they were close? I love it when people put words into my mouth. I said Superman's magic resistance has increased...meaning RELATIVE TO HIS OWN OLD MAGIC RESISTANCE. This is indisputable. As for issue numbers, give me an hour and I'll find them. I have to dig through some comics. I asked if you were implying? I love when people put words in my mouth.

K, will be waiting. Hope you don't try to say the Hawkman/Billy vs Superman/Batman fight is where Superman had the upper hand...

lol

Billy wrecks him hes made to shit stomp bricks

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Then Superman beat the absolute shit out of Captain Marvel during the ECLIPSO thing Did you even see that fight?

No seriously. I get that you like Superman, but no need to make shit up to try and prove he's epically awesome. Use feats from other sources while ignoring the Billy fights like everyone else.

Captain Marvel wins on account of him being Superman's equal. Since current Superman is on another level compared to his DOS version I don't see why Marvel wouldn't take it. I'd give it to current Supes without hesitation.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Captain Marvel doesn't have better durability than Superman. Superman is > CM. Its one of the worst internet myths that they are equals.


they are compareable but ya superman is probobly a bit more durable but not by much. The though that superman is light years ahead of billy in durabilty and in strength, is among one of the worst internet myths ever.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I meant damage soak.......and who do you think would win?

And I still think Cap Marvel > Durability is greater i think that comes from the fact that Superman has more abusable vulnerabilities than Batson who has no real weaknesses/vulnerabilities. Also Supes is much more inconsistent, but on the whole I'd put him very slightly above Billy in the durability department. However an Average Marvel has a better overall attack than a lot of superman's with his Shazam lightning in terms of a high end finisher.

Post-Crisis Captain Marvel battles Death of Superman Doomsday.


- Battle takes place in Fawcett City

- Blood lust is on but both are in character

- Winner by knock out or death.


Who wins and why?

Billy.

Originally posted by Uriel005
i think that comes from the fact that Superman has more abusable vulnerabilities than Batson who has no real weaknesses/vulnerabilities. Also Supes is much more inconsistent, but on the whole I'd put him very slightly above Billy in the durability department. However an Average Marvel has a better overall attack than a lot of superman's with his Shazam lightning in terms of a high end finisher.

Thing about Batson is he has no magic weakness

this is literally on the same page

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Where did I say they were close? I love it when people put words into my mouth. I said Superman's magic resistance has increased...meaning RELATIVE TO HIS OWN OLD MAGIC RESISTANCE. This is indisputable. As for issue numbers, give me an hour and I'll find them. I have to dig through some comics.

Pillar, when I say this... I want you to understand... "you don't know what you are talking about".

Lol... did you bring up the Eclipso fight...HAHAHAHAHA... you do know that Eclipso stated in that same comic (in which Cap was holding back) that Cap can kill Superman with a single punch.

I truly hope you are not talking about the fight that took place during the Superman/Batman comic? You might want to read what Superman said in that comic.

Originally posted by carver9
Pillar, when I say this... I want you to understand... "you don't know what you are talking about".

Lol... did you bring up the Eclipso fight...HAHAHAHAHA... you do know that Eclipso stated in that same comic (in which Cap was holding back) that Cap can kill Superman with a single punch.

I truly hope you are not talking about the fight that took place during the Superman/Batman comic? You might want to read what Superman said in that comic.

Where did he say that? This all sounds very familiar, like we've gone through this before...

and Superman's resistance to magic is a little better than it used to be, yes.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Where did he say that? This all sounds very familiar, like we've gone through this before...

and Superman's resistance to magic is a little better than it used to be, yes.

We have debated this topic and I won by providing a scan. It was stated in the comic by Eclipso (when they were tossing ships around).

I agree, it is a lot better but it isn't better to the point where he would get an advantage against Billy imo.

Cap after a long fight

Originally posted by carver9
We have debated this topic and I won by providing a scan. It was stated in the comic by Eclipso (when they were tossing ships around).

I agree, it is a lot better but it isn't better to the point where he would get an advantage against Billy imo.

I'd have to see this scan, because IIRC, the argument went very differently.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'd have to see this scan, because IIRC, the argument went very differently.

Naah, that was one of the few (but more to come) arguments that I won. I think I have the scan saved... one sec.

I don't think you have the scan saved...

Originally posted by carver9
We have debated this topic and I won by providing a scan. It was stated in the comic by Eclipso (when they were tossing ships around).

I agree, it is a lot better but it isn't better to the point where he would get an advantage against Billy imo. I stopped reading at this part: durpalm

Originally posted by Badabing
I stopped reading at this part:
durpalm

Don't stop halfway through Carver's posts! durfist

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, that was one of the few (but more to come) arguments that I won. I think I have the scan saved... one sec.

That's about an hour now nahuh

I'm just curious as to what these "few" arguments were.

I don't have a scanner myself, but I do own Day of Vengeance. Eclipso says as much on page 57 of the trade:

"I know that's not Superman talking, Eclipso. And you know I can't kill him.

"Not can't---won't! You don't have a choice! You know what he'll do! DO IT!!

Now, this isn't what's claimed and it could just be Eclipso lying since he was trying to get Billy to feel rage in his heart so he could possess him to gain a permanent host, but take it as you will.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I don't have a scanner myself, but I do own Day of Vengeance. Eclipso says as much on page 57 of the trade:

"I know that's not Superman talking, Eclipso. And you know I can't kill him.

"Not can't---won't! You don't have a choice! You know what he'll do! DO IT!!

Now, this isn't what's claimed and it could just be Eclipso lying since he was trying to get Billy to feel rage in his heart so he could possess him to gain a permanent host, but take it as you will.

That doesn't really mean anything. Not evidence at all. He might as well not bother if that's the scan he's looking for.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I don't have a scanner myself, but I do own Day of Vengeance. Eclipso says as much on page 57 of the trade:

"I know that's not Superman talking, Eclipso. And you know I can't kill him.

"Not can't---won't! You don't have a choice! You know what he'll do! DO IT!!

Now, this isn't what's claimed and it could just be Eclipso lying since he was trying to get Billy to feel rage in his heart so he could possess him to gain a permanent host, but take it as you will.

That's what I thought he said (or something similar). What Carver is claiming is something else entirely, though. Superman in a headlock begged Billy to kill him, but he wouldn't.

Not quite the same as "one punch" especially seeing as Billy was on the defensive for most of the fight...

Originally posted by The Pict
That doesn't really mean anything. Not evidence at all.

I quoted direct text and the page number of the conversation. Now I'll quote the issue number and specific story name, Lightning Strikes Twice, Adventures of Superman 639 and Superman 216. Part 1 is a Superman Annual but I can't seem to find the number.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's what I thought he said (or something similar). What Carver is claiming is something else entirely, though. Superman in a headlock begged Billy to kill him, but he wouldn't.

Not quite the same as "one punch" especially seeing as Billy was on the defensive for most of the fight...

Which was why I was clarifying the debated piece of evidence.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I quoted direct text and the page number of the conversation. Now I'll quote the issue number and specific story name, Lightning Strikes Twice, Adventures of Superman 639 and Superman 216. Part 1 is a Superman Annual but I can't seem to find the number.

I'm not doubting the source, mate. I just don't think Eclipso saying CM won't kill Superman means he'd win a fight between the two, let alone kill him with a single punch (ridiculous) like Carver suggests.

Originally posted by The Pict
I'm not doubting the source, mate. I just don't think Eclipso saying CM won't kill Superman means he'd win a fight between the two, let alone kill him with a single punch (ridiculous) like Carver suggests.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were saying that me quoting that wasn't evidence since I wasn't posting the actual scan.

But yeah, I'm not saying Marvel could kill Superman, I was just clarifying the debated instance.

Though I think we might be getting off topic here.

Do we agree that Captain Marvel was/is more powerful than Superman was in the 90s when he first fought Doomsday to a fatal standstill?

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
Ah, sorry, I thought you were saying that me quoting that wasn't evidence since I wasn't posting the actual scan.

But yeah, I'm not saying Marvel could kill Superman, I was just clarifying the debated instance.

Though I think we might be getting off topic here.

Do we agree that Captain Marvel was/is more powerful than Superman was in the 90s when he first fought Doomsday to a fatal standstill?

Ha, no worries! I probably should have worded it better.

Yeah DoS Superman wasn't really up too much. He seemed far weaker than he does now, CM is/was more powerful than that version of Superman IMO.

Doomsday

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
Which was why I was clarifying the debated piece of evidence.

and deny me the joy of tripping up Carver? How dare you, sir. uhuh

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman can't alter weather patterns

Umm.. yeah he can.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank
and create storms through magical means

He can create storms, magic or no.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank
can't charge his fists with magical energy



Well you can chalk one for CM.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank
doesn't possess a form of clairvoyance and have the ability to instantly know various facts of a wide variety of subjects

He may not have clairvoyance but he does possess knowledge on a wide variety of subjects. He also has eidetic memory, and the means to process vast amounts of knowledge in a very short time. In his spare time he reads vast volumes of scientific knowledge that he's placed in microscopic script, he can put whole chapters in a single full stop.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
can't summon magical lightning bolts, can't alter his physical appearance though a sheer act of will, didn't become successor and keeper to the nexus of most of Earth's magical power, etc, etc. etc.

He may not have magical bolts but he has more versatile energy projection capabilities. As well as energy absorption: solar energy, electrical energy and geothermal energy being among the energy forms he's absorbed to empower his body.

Originally posted by Allankles
Umm.. yeah he can.




He can create storms, magic or no.






Well you can chalk one for CM.




He may not have clairvoyance but he does possess knowledge on a wide variety of subjects. He also has eidetic memory, and the means to process vast amounts of knowledge in a very short time. In his spare time he reads vast volumes of scientific knowledge that he's placed in microscopic script, he can put whole chapters in a single full stop.



He may not have magical bolts but he has more versatile energy projection capabilities. As well as energy absorption: solar energy, electrical energy and geothermal energy being among the energy forms he's absorbed to empower his body.

So Cap and Supes can both do stuff the other can't?

Glad we agree.

Captain Marvel.

Do you guys think CM has gotten weaker or Superman has just gotten stronger since the 90s. I don't know I only pick up a DC book here and there. It does seem like Black Adam is stronfer than both. I did read his mini. He is ruthless.

CM wins,

DOS DD wasn't all that.

On a side note you guys think that since billy's power depend on his self image, he can amp based on this?

Superman's progressively gotten stronger since the 90's and so has Captain Marvel. By all rights, "current" (or closest to current, anyway) Captain Marvel was the new Wizard before Adam and Isis managed to prep for him and dethrone him.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Captain Marvel doesn't have better durability than Superman. Superman is > CM. Its one of the worst internet myths that they are equals.

Actually DC has gone out of their way to make them virtual equals.

Captain Marvel would kill him then say SHAZAM twice (Billy to Captain Marvel) and be back to new. No funeral needed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman's progressively gotten stronger since the 90's and so has Captain Marvel. By all rights, "current" (or closest to current, anyway) Captain Marvel was the new Wizard before Adam and Isis managed to prep for him and dethrone him.

Thanks that character has always been interesting to me. I wish DC would sell the rights to Marvel/Disney comics. He would give them the Superman type they are looking for. I don't think he is similar to Thor either. Can you imagine marvel against Surfer, Thanos etc.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Thanks that character has always been interesting to me. I wish DC would sell the rights to Marvel/Disney comics. He would give them the Superman type they are looking for. I don't think he is similar to Thor either. Can you imagine marvel against Surfer, Thanos etc.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Thanks that character has always been interesting to me. I wish DC would sell the rights to Marvel/Disney comics. He would give them the Superman type they are looking for. I don't think he is similar to Thor either. Can you imagine marvel against Surfer, Thanos etc. He's one of the least appealing dc characters from my perspective. I'd rather have Black Adam over in marvel or Orion. That's make things a lot more interesting.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I wish DC would sell the rights to Marvel/Disney comics. He would give them the Superman type they are looking for. I don't think he is similar to Thor either. Can you imagine marvel against Surfer, Thanos etc.

Nah, they already have Blue Marvel to fill the heroic and noble flying brick niche.

Originally posted by MetalIsDead
Nah, they already have Blue Marvel to fill the heroic and noble flying brick niche. He doesn't do anything... and he's black.

I'd say something like "coincidence" but that'd sound racist, so I won't.

Originally posted by MetalIsDead
Nah, they already have Blue Marvel to fill the heroic and noble flying brick niche.

Yeah, but they don't use him. Blue Marvel was a fad unfortunately.
CM is well esablished and known.

Going with Billy. Or tossup.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He doesn't do anything... and he's black.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Yeah, but they don't use him. Blue Marvel was a fad unfortunately.
CM is well esablished and known.
True. But somehow I don't think going to Marvel would be a good idea for CM. They will job him to the next "big" villain whom later Hulk or Thor would crush. That's what they always do anyways, Hulk and Thor seems to be sacred or something, like Superman in DC.

CM in DC= peer to Superman, but when shit hits the fan, Supes is THE man.

CM in Marvel= peer to Thor/Hulk, but when shit hits the fan, Thor/Hulk are the ones to call.

Originally posted by MetalIsDead
True. But somehow I don't think going to Marvel would be a good idea for CM. They will job him to the next "big" villain whom later Hulk or Thor would crush. That's what they always do anyways, Hulk and Thor seems to be sacred or something, like Superman in DC.

CM in DC= peer to Superman, but when shit hits the fan, Supes is THE man.

CM in Marvel= peer to Thor/Hulk, but when shit hits the fan, Thor/Hulk are the ones to call.

Marvel would finally have there faster than light fighter. Also if they were to spend money on a character they would probably use him. But you maybe right they may push him to the side like they have done the Sentry.

Doubtful

Doomsday.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
U gay dawg U mad?

I find it hard to believe DOS Doomsday would fall at the hands of Captain Marvel. After all, the guy dropped the entire JLA in a few minutes flat with one arm literally tied behind his back. However, even if Captain Marvel CAN kill Doomsday (or even subdue him), he's going to come back & then whoop his ass even more.

Billy. Superman eventhough had help wasn't going all out until the end. I think that if he had gone all out from the start, he would have beaten Doomsday back then also. and not have died.

Originally posted by Davis Bloome
I find it hard to believe DOS Doomsday would fall at the hands of Captain Marvel. After all, the guy dropped the entire JLA in a few minutes flat with one arm literally tied behind his back. However, even if Captain Marvel CAN kill Doomsday (or even subdue him), he's going to come back & then whoop his ass even more.

Dosen't matter if he can comeback. All I want to know is can billy beat him.

Wisdom of Solomon says it's not a good idea to engage Doomsday in fisticuffs. Better consult the wizard!