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I think I'm more or less getting opinions. A friend of mine is a long time street fighter fan, and says that Ryu could scrape any character from tekken. So I possed what would happen if Jin and Kazuya fought Ryu and Akuma. My argument was that despite Ryu and Akuma being powerful, both Jin and Kazuya have the power to destroy the entire planet, and that ryu and Akuma can not top that level of destruction. Seeing as Jin's grandfather Jinpachi when Jin defeats him, grants jin his power(This being cannon ending of dark resurection) Jin now literly has the power to at will destroy everything on the planet. Kazuya has this latent as well from being of the same power. However it was mentioned in an interview with Katsuhiro Harada (I beleive it was) That The older generation of Jin's family has greater power tapped inside however it is harder to reach the full potential. Not to mention Jin has killed a god, and that the lable for the strongest street fighter I know of would be at the level of demon or demi god at most never a full blown god. If I am wrong would someone please correct me?

against AKUMA !???
boy you will woke up the fan boys
if you wont watch out

Edit

Akuma is is above anyone in Tekken, but would like to see this Jin/Kazuya planet destroying power just in case.

You say that, but (and I may be wrong) Didnt ryu beat Akuma at some late ponit yet? I guess I use the end example as this, Jin and Kazuya have killed GODS...and in terms of power comparison and standards no one in the street fighter relm has been a god. The world destroying power they hold is exampled. Ofcoruse they dont show it because if they didnt there wouldnt be an iron first tournement anymore yet if you take the end result of the depth of each individuals power it would come down to that. Albeit most fighters in tekken are normal fighters with no fantastic means other then humanly strength. Yet you have those like Lee, Kazuya, Jin, Heihaichi, Jinpachi, Ogre, Jun, And then there is Dragunov who has power above almost any known human and is able to content with "Devil" jin as is his mission to capture him by the russian command. I realize many fanboys will tell me how I am dead wrong that Ryu alone could take on everyone in tekken..as a few of my own friends say this. Yet I am not doubting the power of any character in Street fighter. I am simply saying that I beleive the max destructive power of Jin and his family members beats out that of Akuma or ryu or any other character in Street fighter.

There isnt a canon scene where Ryu beats Akuma that Im aware of. And do you mean the omnipotent gods or the guys who are called gods?

Wait if they've never demonstrated planet level power where are you getting that idea from?

Ryu couldnt defeat the top tier of Tekken verse, but the likes of Akuma can.
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0:35 Akuma charges a punch that sinks a small island. Thats strength above anyone in Tekken.
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If I remember right Devil Jin was capable of something on this level, right? If so the destructive powers are on par, but top tier SF fighters are physically stronger and more durable.

Originally posted by zuleselkie
You say that, but (and I may be wrong) Didnt ryu beat Akuma at some late ponit yet? I guess I use the end example as this, Jin and Kazuya have killed GODS...and in terms of power comparison and standards no one in the street fighter relm has been a god. The world destroying power they hold is exampled. Ofcoruse they dont show it because if they didnt there wouldnt be an iron first tournement anymore yet if you take the end result of the depth of each individuals power it would come down to that. Albeit most fighters in tekken are normal fighters with no fantastic means other then humanly strength. Yet you have those like Lee, Kazuya, Jin, Heihaichi, Jinpachi, Ogre, Jun, And then there is Dragunov who has power above almost any known human and is able to content with "Devil" jin as is his mission to capture him by the russian command. I realize many fanboys will tell me how I am dead wrong that Ryu alone could take on everyone in tekken..as a few of my own friends say this. Yet I am not doubting the power of any character in Street fighter. I am simply saying that I beleive the max destructive power of Jin and his family members beats out that of Akuma or ryu or any other character in Street fighter.
You have to remember, that "gods" in video games are not automatically superior to other people. Hayabusa would smoke any single being from Tekken and he is a human.

In an argument, you have to prove that your character has planet destroying power. Noone in Tekken has ever demonstrated that power, so you can't just assume Jin and Kazuya could do that.

Ryu would get his ass kicked if he fought the entire Tekken cast simultaneously though.

I need not say a thing, Bloodrain and Styletime have summed it up nicely.

Orly? Sorry to bother you but did you see jinpachi's ending? have you read azazel's profile? did you see Devil jin tk5 ending? they all demonstrated power that can destroy the entire planet. I love sf characters but don't underestimate tekken cast.

as for the match, it could go either way, Kazuya and Ryu seems equal to me, Jin has demonstrated that he can go toe toe with the like of Akuma (well he defeated Ogre, Heihachi, Devil Jinpachi and Azazel).

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These endings? Not really on a planetary scale..

Yes, "power to at will destroy everything on the planet"... Really NOT on a planetary scale...

I TOLD that Tekkenverse is way too overrated!

Since Gouki is in the fight, the "Street Fighter team" wins.

Kazuya gets himself some popcorn while Devil Jin laughs as team 2 tries to approach him.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Orly? Sorry to bother you but did you see jinpachi's ending? have you read azazel's profile? did you see Devil jin tk5 ending? they all demonstrated power that can destroy the entire planet. I love sf characters but don't underestimate tekken cast.

as for the match, it could go either way, Kazuya and Ryu seems equal to me, Jin has demonstrated that he can go toe toe with the like of Akuma (well he defeated Ogre, Heihachi, Devil Jinpachi and Azazel).
Yes, I own and love the games. They didn't actually demonstrate planet destroying power though. Do you have some proof otherwise?

It can't go either way. Ryu might have a harder time, but Akuma is going to kick their asses.

Bloodrain already posted feats and I'm sure Darkstorm Zero would happily drop more if you ask nicely.

Akuma takes this in a bloody stomp. In the Udon comics(cannon I think) Akuma mashed a meteorite that was about to crash into the earth.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/73957/1678473-akuma_super.jpg and if it isn't, well he still has his island busting feat.

if akuma can do that then he is stronger then all tekken+sf cast toghether,seariusly i miss the days where street fighter was actual
street fighters and not dragon ball z wannabi,the only one i can see take him down now is orochi himself

With Oni Akuma introduced, I wonder what other ridiculous things he can do now? I wouldn't be surprised if he was on DBZ level now.

But yeah, it also pisses me off how SF went from deep, serious martial arts to "ultra super powerful attacks" mess.

Capcom fighting Jam ending is not cannon.

how powerful is Gouki? let's just saying that Kenshiro can still kick all their butts singal handly.

Fist of the North Star

1983

Dragon Ball

1984

Street Fighter

1987

Fist of the North Star is my favourite anime of all times...

But actually I don't know if Kenshiro can easily win Gouki... Feat-wise Gouki has done greater things.

The 1986 Fist of the North Star movie is not canon, so thing like "Kenshiro and Raoh's aura can create storm and tornados" is not canon.

And about the "one hit Kill" martial art, battle with equal-matched masters in Fist of the North Star are long and bloddy, not just "I touch a tsubo with a finger and the other master dies".
So I think that to strike a mortal tsubo to a warrior like Ryu, Kazuya or Gouki, even a warrior like Kenshiro has to focus all his strenght an spiritual power in his best attacks.

Well in Raven storymode, its said Jinpachi full power can destroy the world, the proof is there :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-wNF5ewguw&feature=related
I don't see the feat where Akuma can do such a thing, would you give me a proof?

Azazel is a demonic world destroyer, his ressurection would mean the end of the world except if someone who get the devil gene kick his ass.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXX2XrILyvY
this vid shows what Jin and Kazuya can rly do with a power punch. Well Akuma will have a hard time against these two.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Well in Raven storymode, its said Jinpachi full power can destroy the world, the proof is there :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-wNF5ewguw&feature=related

Err, no it doesn't. It said that "Mankind will be exterminated", in an unspecified manner mind you. No indication of how. You've automatically assumed that he is somehow going to "Detonate the planet" ala DBZ style.... That is not the case.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
I don't see the feat where Akuma can do such a thing, would you give me a proof?

I don't see how it is relevant because your point is simply conjecture. However, demonstrated feats give Gouki a massive physical strength and energy manipulation edge.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Azazel is a demonic world destroyer, his ressurection would mean the end of the world except if someone who get the devil gene kick his ass.

Hyperbole is fun right? I mean it's not like Lars didn't beat his shit in at all right? Demonstrated power is relevant, not conjecture by fallible characters. Nobody knew what Azazel could have or could not have done. He had ample time to execute his plot, and yet got his shit kicked in royally.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXX2XrILyvY
this vid shows what Jin and Kazuya can rly do with a power punch. Well Akuma will have a hard time against these two.

AHAHAHAHAAA! Your relying on an intro video thats meant to glamorise the characters?! No man.... That event never happened in Tekken's storyline at all.

I've lost count how many times I have refuted these points over the years....

Sorry for the double post.

You want feats that are demonstrated and quantified? here...

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Akuma sinking an island with one blow.

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At 03:48 Akuma's 2nd Impact Ending, he splits Uluru in half.

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Akuma leaping from pacific ocean floor to ocean surface, while citting a ship apart with a kick.

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Akuma decimating and cratering a forest with nothing but the recoil from this attack.

These are all attacks that have been done, can be seen and quantified, and are all official to Gouki's storyline, not glamorised intros or conjecture by other characters.

Are we in another capcom hating phase? It comes and goes every few years.

Yeah, but whatchagonnado? Repeating the same points every few weeks is becoming tedious... Nobody ever does research anymore...

It is KMC...

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Orly? Sorry to bother you but did you see jinpachi's ending? have you read azazel's profile? did you see Devil jin tk5 ending? they all demonstrated power that can destroy the entire planet. I love sf characters but don't underestimate tekken cast.

as for the match, it could go either way, Kazuya and Ryu seems equal to me, Jin has demonstrated that he can go toe toe with the like of Akuma (well he defeated Ogre, Heihachi, Devil Jinpachi and Azazel).

Jinpachi's ending is non canon (as is Devil Jin's), and his ending does not explicitly state that he destroyed the planet, just that he affected it in some way. Most likely wiped out all life over the course of months.
Azazel also is likely a life-wiper on the same, and he didn't exactly demonstrate any sort of planet-destroying power. He also got owned by Lars.

Akuma could destroy the entire planet if he wanted. He obviously wouldn't do it in one shot, but he could still do it. He's still more powerful than anyone in the Tekken cast.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Akuma takes this in a bloody stomp. In the Udon comics(cannon I think) Akuma mashed a meteorite that was about to crash into the earth.
That isn't canon, but you are right; Akuma is above them regardless.
Originally posted by crimson_2010
Well in Raven storymode, its said Jinpachi full power can destroy the world, the proof is there

I don't see the feat where Akuma can do such a thing, would you give me a proof?

Azazel is a demonic world destroyer, his ressurection would mean the end of the world except if someone who get the devil gene kick his ass.
this vid shows what Jin and Kazuya can rly do with a power punch. Well Akuma will have a hard time against these two.
Darkstorm covered the points for me, so I'll leave it alone.

I want to help you understand though. In this type of argument, you use "feats" to prove your case. "Feats" are, ideally, indisputable examples of your character's abilities. If you can't show a someone destroying the world, we generally assume he/she can't. The same goes for Azazel or Jinpachi. As of now, they were just potentially powerful beings who got beat by humans.

On the other hand, we actually saw Akuma destroy an island. This is well beyond any Tekken character's destructive capacity, so we rank Akuma higher than Jin and Kazuya.

We're not mean people, but we want you to understand why your argument can't work. I hate pulling the "You can trust me because I don't like the guy I'm arguing for" card, but.....I am not an Akuma fan and I still think he wins. I actually like Tekken more than Street Fighter, but Akuma's feats speak for themselves. He'd wreck anyone in Tekken along with 90% of my favorite characters from other fighting games.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Are we in another capcom hating phase? It comes and goes every few years.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yeah, but whatchagonnado? Repeating the same points every few weeks is becoming tedious... Nobody ever does research anymore...
Honestly, I think this is an example of someone who is just new to this. Outside of internet debate forums, most people would probably accept "Dude. He's a GOD. He wins!" Heck, I used to do it myself. I knew the denotation of the word "feat", but I didn't apply it like we do here.

Lol @ the underestimation of Azazel. Even during its infant years it was able to fend of against a freaking monitor lizard for a while...and doing a size comparison you can see how much of an impressive feat that is.Ry-bb0NgNiE
1/1,000,000,000th of his current power, mind you.

In case anyone's wondering, yes Azazel is the lord demon chicken in the Tekken verse. Was worshipped as an Egyptian god and made the devil pack haunting the Mishimas.

I am talking about the Manga, Kenshiro has this techquine in the manga that allows him to go intangible and still hit people. don't know if he would beat Goku with it though. but it is one of his most cheapest techquines.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

AHAHAHAHAAA! Your relying on an intro video thats meant to glamorise the characters?! No man.... That event never happened in Tekken's storyline at all.
The intro is canon. So the fight on the rooftop did happen if that's what you're talking about.


On-topic, its pretty much what everybody else says. Akuma is too much for any Tekken or SF character to handle in h2h.

Originally posted by SamZED
The intro is canon. So the fight on the rooftop did happen if that's what you're talking about.

It did? When? And if so, then what was Jin's point of wanting the two to clash before either was ready? That pretty much destroys the validity of his entire story in Tekken 6, including Lars's speech.

Sorry mate, but I'll take the actual story arch over the intro which is glamorised and has no place in the actual story.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It did? When? And if so, then what was Jin's point of wanting the two to clash before either was ready? That pretty much destroys the validity of his entire story in Tekken 6, including Lars's speech.

Sorry mate, but I'll take the actual story arch over the intro which is glamorised and has no place in the actual story.
Tekken 6 covers the war between G corp and MZ. Between Kazuya and Jin. A tiny part of it we see in the video, fits the storyline just perfectly if you ask me. As for why they fought in that particular moment is not importnant.

Suit yourself. The feat's still valid.

As long as it is canon, I don't see the big deal with it.

Originally posted by StyleTime
That isn't canon, but you are right; Akuma is above them regardless.

Darkstorm covered the points for me, so I'll leave it alone.

I want to help you understand though. In this type of argument, you use "feats" to prove your case. "Feats" are, ideally, indisputable examples of your character's abilities. If you can't show a someone destroying the world, we generally assume he/she can't. The same goes for Azazel or Jinpachi. As of now, they were just potentially powerful beings who got beat by humans.

On the other hand, we actually saw Akuma destroy an island. This is well beyond any Tekken character's destructive capacity, so we rank Akuma higher than Jin and Kazuya.

We're not mean people, but we want you to understand why your argument can't work. I hate pulling the "You can trust me because I don't like the guy I'm arguing for" card, but.....I am not an Akuma fan and I still think he wins. I actually like Tekken more than Street Fighter, but Akuma's feats speak for themselves. He'd wreck anyone in Tekken along with 90% of my favorite characters from other fighting games.


Honestly, I think this is an example of someone who is just new to this. Outside of internet debate forums, most people would probably accept "Dude. He's a GOD. He wins!" Heck, I used to do it myself. I knew the denotation of the word "feat", but I didn't apply it like we do here. True, that "He's a GOD" is a bunch of nonsense and I can understand why the average Joe does it, but Mortals beat gods all the time in fiction, there's a difference between the capital "G" God and the lowercase "g" god.

Originally posted by SamZED
Tekken 6 covers the war between G corp and MZ. Between Kazuya and Jin. A tiny part of it we see in the video, fits the storyline just perfectly if you ask me. As for why they fought in that particular moment is not importnant.

Suit yourself. The feat's still valid.

It covers a war... a WAR, Not Jin charging into G-Corp tower like a lunatic alone. That never happened, not in anyone's story. Like I said, glamorised introduction. It's hardly the same thing as the Tekken 5 intro, because at least some of the events in that are corroborated in the story.. I am pretty sure Jin and Kaz dropping G-Corp towers in a fistfight would have been mentioned somewhere in the characters stories somewhere, but no....

Is it now? Well then, can you demonstrate when it took place? Can you find me anything to corroborate or substantiate the feat? Gouki at least has that.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It covers a war... a WAR, Not Jin charging into G-Corp tower like a lunatic alone. That never happened, not in anyone's story. Like I said, glamorised introduction. It's hardly the same thing as the Tekken 5 intro, because at least some of the events in that are corroborated in the story.. I am pretty sure Jin and Kaz dropping G-Corp towers in a fistfight would have been mentioned somewhere in the characters stories somewhere, but no....

Is it now? Well then, can you demonstrate when it took place? Can you find me anything to corroborate or substantiate the feat? Gouki at least has that.
Oh God here we go again, its always the same with you. The PUNCH wasnt mentioned in prologue, so its not canon, great...

We know for a fact that there was a war. And in game's main prologue, as well as Kazuya's prologue and Jin's it is stated that when it all started Kazuya announced a bounty on Jin's head. Hence in the beginning of the video we see Jin on a motorcycle being chased thoughout the city, shot at, blown up etc and he eventually reaches the tower where he faces Kazuya.

Now notice the difference.
- I see this video and it leads me to a conclusion that the events shown in it took place during the war and it makes perfect sense seeing how it fits in the storyline.
- While you see it and assume that its some random video namco pulled out of their asses for no reason and that it has nothing to do with anything and its a total accident that we see Jin being hunted (hint: bounty on his head) and the fight scene between Kazuya and Jin (hint: them being at war with ech other). Right..

You asking me to prove its canon or show the punch being mentioned in prologues is ridiculous. You dont think its canon, you better be able to back it up somehow. Because nothing.. i repeat NOTHING in those scenes controdicts the main story line. More than that it fits in it perfectly. So yeah, the fight scene is canon and the feat is very much usable. Deal with it.

Even if it is canon does it really matter? Its not their best destructive feat and is hard to gauge as a strength feat, or is below strength already shown.

I honestly did not Believe that it would become this level of a debate, I had simply asked if they CAN destroy the planet. To all of those who are saying Akuma could but wouldnt..I am not asking if someone would or will I am asking if they CAN. I am asking if it is stated that Akuma or Ryu could destroy the planet. This being said, I would also note that in Tekken it HAS been mentioned that one with the devil gene can destroy the earth, not wipe our mankind not change the earth forever(As in Jinpachi's ending) As in destroy the entire planet. As to the argument of cannon or not, the thing is jinpachi's ending is not cannon to the story but is still an outcome that would have happened and thus showing that it COULD have happened. Just because somthing DIDNT doesnt mean it COULDNT. It has even been mentioned before that the dragon ball movies despite not beign Cannon COULD have happened had events folded out that way. Look at broly for example, the movies arnt Cannon, but had events built up as such, they also would have ended as such would they not? Also in adress to the street fighter and tekken fans alike let us not forget that for combat purposes the fighters will verry obviously be on equal grounds in the game, but let us not get TOO far out of hand with these arguments because there are characters such as The Hulk, and Doomsday, Superman, Dante, Itachi characters that could most take down many if not every character from both relms at once. The Hulk and Dante being unable to die(Or stay dead) Superman doomsday and Itachi being of such power in either physical or other means that they can cap out others easily. And then there would be Broly, Goku, Vegeta...those characters that would Look upon Jin and Akuma alike and go "Really?....No...Just no." And utterly break them in two. I love tekken, I enjoy street fighter...I was simply wondering if there are characters on both ends that can destroy the planet. Twas all. I apreciate the number of responses though, didnt think it would build up so fast.

The Hulk could be beaten, the others would win. Then you have Darkstalker characters who walk all over them, so there are always other characters out there.

Originally posted by SamZED
Oh God here we go again, its always the same with you. The PUNCH wasnt mentioned in prologue, so its not canon, great...

Stop trying to play the blame game Sam. Just like before, neither you nor anyone else has proven the scene to be legit, and you use it as a crutch to maintain an argument when none exists.

Not just the punch, the entire scene didn't happen; I shall explain below.

Originally posted by SamZED
We know for a fact that there was a war. And in game's main prologue, as well as Kazuya's prologue and Jin's it is stated that when it all started Kazuya announced a bounty on Jin's head. Hence in the beginning of the video we see Jin on a motorcycle being chased thoughout the city, shot at, blown up etc and he eventually reaches the tower where he faces Kazuya.

Never denied there was a war.

Kazuya did place a bounty on Jin, thats true, however, Jin was never out and about during this time, in fact, Jin immediately announces the next King Of Iron Fist Tournament as a response, Hence he was able to safeguard himself behind the Zaibatsu and draw Kazuya to him, not charge out like a homicidal idiot and get shot to shit by MRLS and storm Kazuya's tower solo. The entire premise is that Jin has his ow military force, and had just announced the tournament, Now you have to provide a reason why he would charge Kazuya's tower in broad daylight, alone, with an enormous bounty on his head, instead of announcing the tournament, and utilising his army to neutralise Kazuya's forces to draw the man out like the story actually goes. I mean why would he charge Kaz out of turn if the entire reason for setting the war up was to draw out Azazel?

Originally posted by SamZED
Now notice the difference.
- I see this video and it leads me to a conclusion that the events shown in it took place during the war and it makes perfect sense seeing how it fits in the storyline.

No, it does not fit the storyline, nor does it fit Jin's personality or plan at the time, which is the entire point of me raising this issue.

Originally posted by SamZED
- While you see it and assume that its some random video namco pulled out of their asses for no reason and that it has nothing to do with anything and its a total accident that we see Jin being hunted (hint: bounty on his head) and the fight scene between Kazuya and Jin (hint: them being at war with ech other). Right..

If your using it as a metaphor I could accept that, but you used it as a literal feat when it has not happened before or since. I said it was an introductory video that is used to glamorise the characters, just like most introductory videos are. Your trying to pull a feat from a scene that never actually happened in story, hence why it can be disreguarded, if you want to use the feat, give me an instance of it actually happening (IE: the character actually pulling it off in story.)

Originally posted by SamZED
You asking me to prove its canon or show the punch being mentioned in prologues is ridiculous. You dont think its canon, you better be able to back it up somehow. Because nothing.. i repeat NOTHING in those scenes controdicts the main story line. More than that it fits in it perfectly. So yeah, the fight scene is canon and the feat is very much usable. Deal with it.

It's not possible to prove a negative Sam, you want the feat, you have to prove it happened, not the other way around. So as per the rules of debate, if a character has not demonstrated capable of doing the feat by rule of canon, then the character cannot perform the feat. it's simple logic, so YOU deal with it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Stop trying to play the blame game Sam. Just like before, neither you nor anyone else has proven the scene to be legit, and you use it as a crutch to maintain an argument when none exists.
Wasnt even talking about this video. Not the first time I have a similar debate with you and again you're trying to dismiss something you dont like when there's no reason to. Nevermind, its old and off-topic.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Kazuya did place a bounty on Jin, thats true, however, Jin was never out and about during this time, in fact, Jin immediately announces the next King Of Iron Fist Tournament as a response, Hence he was able to safeguard himself behind the Zaibatsu and draw Kazuya to him, not charge out like a homicidal idiot and get shot to shit by MRLS and storm Kazuya's tower solo. The entire premise is that Jin has his ow military force, and had just announced the tournament, Now you have to provide a reason why he would charge Kazuya's tower in broad daylight, alone, with an enormous bounty on his head, instead of announcing the tournament, and utilising his army to neutralise Kazuya's forces to draw the man out like the story actually goes. I mean why would he charge Kaz out of turn if the entire reason for setting the war up was to draw out Azazel?
No. Im sorry DZ I DON'T have to provide any reasons. As pretty much everything you said is an assumption. "Jin was never out"?, "Why not send his people?", "Why act so arrogant"?, "Why attack Kazuya"? Sorry but that's grasping at straws, you're basically questioniong the video being canon going by what in your opinion a real-life war should look like. The tournament never starts imediately after being announced. There could be gazillion reasons why Jin ended up on that highway and more than enough time for it to happen. And just because you personally disagree with the way Jin (a videogame character) acted in that particular situation doesnt make it any less legit.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

No, it does not fit the storyline, nor does it fit Jin's personality or plan at the time, which is the entire point of me raising this issue. It does actually. Perfectly. It's a small sample of the story described in the prologue. But you're entitled to your opinion ofcourse. But dont be surprised if its brought up in every tekken thread as canon evidence. Because as far as I know you're the only one who even questions it being canon.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

If your using it as a metaphor I could accept that, but you used it as a literal feat when it has not happened before or since. I said it was an introductory video that is used to glamorise the characters, just like most introductory videos are. Your trying to pull a feat from a scene that never actually happened in story, hence why it can be disreguarded, if you want to use the feat, give me an instance of it actually happening (IE: the character actually pulling it off in story.)
What do you mean by using it as a metaphore? And why shouldnt I use it as a legit feat? Look what we have so far:
In prologue it's said: Kazuya and Jin are at war and Jin has a bounty on his head.
In the video we see: Exactly that - Kazuya and Jin being at war and Jin with a bounty on his head.
Why should I assume it's not canon?
While you for some reason believe that one has nothing to do with the other.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

It's not possible to prove a negative Sam, you want the feat, you have to prove it happened, not the other way around. So as per the rules of debate, if a character has not demonstrated capable of doing the feat by rule of canon, then the character cannot perform the feat. it's simple logic, so YOU deal with it. Im not asking you to prove a negative, I said that if you're gonna question it being canon there better be reasons to do so. And I dont see any. You want me to prove the feat happened? Open youtube and watch the video, that's the proof. The fact that it is there and the fact that it fits the storyline, while not controdicting it in any way should be enough for everybody. What you're asking for arent proofs. You want me to show you the punch being mentioned in a prologue and saying you wont accept it otherwise. Which is a ridiculous request.

You two...

Originally posted by SamZED
Wasnt even talking about this video. Not the first time I have a similar debate with you and again you're trying to dismiss something you dont like when there's no reason to. Nevermind, its old and off-topic.

Sam, I don't even recall the last time I've debated with you. If it is you trying to pulll a rabit out of your crack (IE: trying to pull inconclusive feats out of your @$$) then yes, it's the same old shit... And like before, your still not providing anything.

Originally posted by SamZED
No. Im sorry DZ I DON'T have to provide any reasons. As pretty much everything you said is an assumption. "Jin was never out"?, "Why not send his people?", "Why act so arrogant"?, "Why attack Kazuya"? Sorry but that's grasping at straws, you're basically questioniong the video being canon going by what in your opinion a real-life war should look like. The tournament never starts imediately after being announced. There could be gazillion reasons why Jin ended up on that highway and more than enough time for it to happen. And just because you personally disagree with the way Jin (a videogame character) acted in that particular situation doesnt make it any less legit.

Are you serious? Your the one trying to admit faulty logic as evidence and now your copping out. If you can't explain it, then just say so... Seriously, Corroborate the feat or GTFO. It's not oppinion as much as it is carefully deduced chain of events. Ok, now you've raised more claims, here we go again...

#1: Prove that the announcement of the tournament was not immediate as was said during both Kazuya and Jin's prologues.

#2: If Jin is aware that there is a price on his head, and made the announcement based on that fact, then why oh why did he charge out on his own to G-Tek, nearly get charblasted by rocket artillery, then charge up the tower despite all his plans to the contrary to awaken Azazel... This point is actually VERY IMPORTANT. he stated as such during the story mode. Why would he risk getting killed, or killing Kazuya for that matter before Azazel's resurrection? He had been aware of Azazel ever since Tekken 5, so any excuse you could conjure would defy this fact, as in Jin's entire reason for starting the war would be completely null and void by this one action.

Originally posted by SamZED
It does actually. Perfectly. It's a small sample of the story described in the prologue. But you're entitled to your opinion ofcourse. But dont be surprised if its brought up in every tekken thread as canon evidence. Because as far as I know you're the only one who even questions it being canon.

Perfectly my ass, read above.... Either you havn't beaten the campaign mode, or your trying VERY hard to lie through your teeth. And I don't particularly care if I am alone in voicing my point, ad-populem is hardly a substitute for being correct.

Originally posted by SamZED
What do you mean by using it as a metaphore? And why shouldnt I use it as a legit feat? Look what we have so far:
In prologue it's said: Kazuya and Jin are at war and Jin has a bounty on his head.
In the video we see: Exactly that - Kazuya and Jin being at war and Jin with a bounty on his head.
Why should I assume it's not canon?
While you for some reason believe that one has nothing to do with the other.

Read above, specifically point 2, you have not taken any context into account when trying to summarise the story, it goes a hell of a lot deeper than your stating. You should try a little harder next time. If the video contradicts higher canon, then it is disreguarded unless coroborated.

Originally posted by SamZED
Im not asking you to prove a negative, I said that if you're gonna question it being canon there better be reasons to do so. And I dont see any. You want me to prove the feat happened? Open youtube and watch the video, that's the proof. The fact that it is there and the fact that it fits the storyline, while not controdicting it in any way should be enough for everybody. What you're asking for arent proofs. You want me to show you the punch being mentioned in a prologue and saying you wont accept it otherwise. Which is a ridiculous request.

You are not reading what I said, either that, or it's selective reading... I said, prove the feat happened IN STORY! It DOES NOT fit the story, and contadicts major events despite your protestations. Counter my points above and you may have a case. If G-Tek HQ was damaged during a fistfight before the tournament started, but after the announcement would have been mentioned in at least one prologue. It wasn't. Why should we assume then that the event happened? It's out of character, it's uncoroborated, and it doesn't fit the story or the timeline.

I will now wait to see what excuse you'll pull out of thin air next....

Shin Gouki, would be defeated by the Shin Evil Ryu present in AE. So I don't think Gouki is too much for ANY SF to handle. Unless he transforms into the Kuruoshiki Oni.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Shin Gouki, would be defeated by the Shin Evil Ryu present in AE. So I don't think Gouki is too much for ANY SF to handle. Unless he transforms into the Kuruoshiki Oni.

That I'm not too sure of. Normal Gouki is still in the highest tier, and is well beyond ordinary fighters.

Remember, this isn't Gouki, Shin Gouki, Patella Gouki, or any of that, this is Akuma. And since Akuma is the American name for Gouki Akuma is, naturally, a lot weaker than Gouki.

Now that I've finished trolling, I can say that Akuma's power is pretty much limitless, but lets just say for a moment he has the same power as he does in most of the games (Air Hadouken, Shin Goku Satsu, low health, etc.) Then the match might be even (hey I'm only looking at it from a title perspective here, and not a post perspective). But since you guys talk about power levels and chi levels so much it kinda nullifies what the topic is about.

To the OP: You really have awoken the fanboys.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
True, that "He's a GOD" is a bunch of nonsense and I can understand why the average Joe does it, but Mortals beat gods all the time in fiction, there's a difference between the capital "G" God and the lowercase "g" god.
Yeah. It'd be nice if everyone could participate in an "Intro to debating fiction" course before coming here. lol It would definitely cut out a lot of the "He's a GOD! Limitless powa!!!" stuff.
Originally posted by zuleselkie
To all of those who are saying Akuma could but wouldnt..I am not asking if someone would or will I am asking if they CAN. I am asking if it is stated that Akuma or Ryu could destroy the planet. I love tekken, I enjoy street fighter...I was simply wondering if there are characters on both ends that can destroy the planet.
Noone here believes Akuma can blow up the planet. We're trying to tell you that noone in Street Fighter or Tekken can blow up the planet.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That I'm not too sure of. Normal Gouki is still in the highest tier, and is well beyond ordinary fighters.

It is said in the SFIV developers blog that K.Oni and Evil Ryu are meant to be beyond the current bosses of SFIV. Hence the "X Factor glow" being constantly active.

Seems some members here hate how powerful SF characters are. Jealousy maybe? It's just a game.

Was I even talking to you? Or about you?

Right, perhaps I should've not included the last sentence. Edit time's over though.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
What?! Ryu never beat Gouki. The amount of socks and noobs lately is astounding. And the socks have gotten worse. Being away for while should make you less brainless, hateful, and clueless.
So saying what apparently happened in Ryu's Alpha 2 ending makes someone those correct ? And I was just countering the "lol Lars defeated Azazel" bs. No need to blow off your top. It's fiction.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Hmmm, very fishy.
He more or less seemed to be referring to all on one side. Why you're taking these things personally, is what's fishy.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
The creators of the game have stated that Kuruoshiki Oni is Gouki and was created to be at a level beyond Shin Gouki. He also rips off his prayer beads in his fight intro.


http://shoryuken.com/content/ssf4-developer-s-blog-details-oni-4194/

Even though I'm certain you're a sock, you should still take my advice. Do your research before you attempt to participate in any discussions.
Do you read your own sources?

From your own link:

Being "beyond" Shin Akuma doesn't mean it's the same person. If, for example, there's a character stronger than S. Akuma, they he can be dubbed "beyond Shin Akuma" as well, and it fits the entirety of the quote, and even if that's now miraculously the same character with the evidence against you, I highly doubt it would be canon and thus not valid in the match (thread starter didn't use Oni).

I don't post without doing research beforehand, like right now for example.

By the way LOL @ troll points durlaugh

Originally posted by Lethal Force
So saying what apparently happened in Ryu's Alpha 2 ending makes someone those correct ? And I was just countering the "lol Lars defeated Azazel" bs. No need to blow off your top. It's fiction.



He more or less seemed to be referring to all on one side. Why you're taking these things personally, is what's fishy.



Do you read your own sources?

From your own link:

Being "beyond" Shin Akuma doesn't mean it's the same person. If, for example, there's a character stronger than S. Akuma, they he can be dubbed "beyond Shin Akuma" as well, and it fits the entirety of the quote, and even if that's now miraculously the same character with the evidence against you, I highly doubt it would be canon and thus not valid in the match (thread starter didn't use Oni).

I don't post without doing research beforehand, like right now for example.

But Ryu did not win in A2. You have less that 20 posts. Why are you so angry and hostile?

I didn't get that from his statement. And I'm just saying, your reaction was strange. I don't know how that's personal.

The points below the first statement are very clearly talking about gameplay. That is VERY obvious. He takes off Gouki's beads before every fight, has the same voice as Gouki, and uses Ansatsuken. My point in posting that was to show that he is stronger than Shin, which you said he was not.

It is still very clear you didn't do your research and lack enough knowledge to positively contribute to this discussion. I wish you well before your ban.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
But Ryu did not win in A2. You have less that 20 posts.
Why are you so angry and hostile?
I didn't get that from his statement. And I'm just saying, your reaction was strange. I don't know how that's personal.

The points below the first statement are very clearly talking about gameplay. That is VERY obvious. He takes off Gouki's beads before every fight, has the same voice as Gouki, and uses Ansatsuken. My point in posting that was to show that he is stronger than Shin, which you said he was not.

It is still very clear you didn't do your research and lack enough knowledge to positively contribute to this discussion.
What's my post count have to do with this, and I wasn't hostile. You don't want to see what me being "hostile" is.

I think the problem with some like C-M is whenever someone posts his or her opinion that Tekken or (insert some fighting verse that isn't KoF) can match SF in cases, that some automatically assume their's SF hate. That's not the case, like with me for example. Why would I, for example, hate one of the first series I've gotten into (i.e. became a fan of) since 15 years ago? Doesn't make sense.

So what if he has the same voice, so is Hercule from Dragon Ball Heihachi now because they have the same voice? Is KH Sephiroth the same as FF7 Sephiroth because "lol they have the same voice" (and no, I'm not being hostile now either, just posting this way since it humors me)? And saying he uses Ansatsuken isn't a good argument. There are several who use it, and Oni's style is a lot closer to Gouken's than Gouki's, hinting he's probably another dark student of Gouken's (for all we know, so it's just a thought).

That's your opinion though. It may or may not be referring to gameplay. Heck, as I've explained, being "beyond Shin Akuma" does not have to mean it's the same dude. If you or I was stronger than S. Akuma then we can be called "beyond S. Akuma", so for all we know this is what the author meant, thus there's no concrete evidence to establish Oni = Akuma in a greater form, and I said he wasn't stronger in terms of demonstrated capabilities, which is what we go off of nowadays.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
I wish you well before your ban
So what you're getting at is, anyone who disagrees with you is banworthy? Sorry you didn't explain this part well.

Originally posted by Lethal Force
What's my post count have to do with this, and I wasn't hostile. You don't want to see what me being "hostile" is.


I'm just saying you haven't been around long enough to be so mad at everyone who likes SF/Capcom.


Originally posted by Lethal Force
I think the problem with some like C-M is whenever someone posts his or her opinion that Tekken or (insert some fighting verse that isn't KoF) can match SF in cases, that some automatically assume their's SF hate. That's not the case, like with me for example. Why would I, for example, hate one of the first series I've gotten into (i.e. became a fan of) since 15 years ago? Doesn't make sense.

But he wasn't directing that comment at you. The members he was referring to, ARE haters. And what's sad is, the haters are making the threads, they like to pick fights. The fact that you just joined and reacted so violently towards a comment made before you registered just seems like a bad look on multiple fronts.

Originally posted by Lethal Force
Silliness about Oni not being Gouki

http://www.capcom.co.jp/sf4/character.html

Roughly translated by Vasili
Originally posted by Vasili @ SRK
Oy, and without further delay, because of CAPCOM�FSUPER STREET FIGHTER IV ��T�C�g�b�X�y�V�����ǎ� we likely won't be seeing any other new or returning faces until any future game,


Kyouoshiki Oni; (Mentally Possessed) Oni

Onigami to Pierce the Heavens

The having continued consequence of being exposed to "satsui no hadou", Gouki's appearance transfigured to one completely not of a person. Already now for the flesh and sentiment as a human being almost unremaining, with just a consciousness toward pure-like combat is retaining his shape. For the one who stood before that, to fight entirely the limit of desperate effort maybe, only the option of giving up to die perhaps is not being granted.

Name: Kyouoshiki Oni
Represented nation: unknown
Birthday: unknown
Height: unknown
Weight: unknown
BWH sizes: unknown
Blood type: unknown
Likes: unknown
Dislikes: unknown
Special skill: unknown
Fighting style: none


Ultras include the tenchi soukaigen and the meido gou hadou which has two alternate forms: the messatsu gou zankuu and the messatsu goutenha, and new sure-kill techniques include the gourai hadouken (the only "gou" matching with Goutetsu's name, all others are the same as in Gouki's), the zankuu hadoushou, the akaboshi jiraiken, and the rakan dantoujin. And because it was previously asked and now answerable, his uppercut which looks like a shin shoryuken is named the gou shoryuken.

Okay, I believe I'm caught up now..

http://shoryuken.com/f12/warriors-fate-street-fighter-story-thread-revived-173/index624.html

Now please. Stop.


Originally posted by Lethal Force
So what you're getting at is, anyone who disagrees with you is banworthy? Sorry you didn't explain this part well.

Not that I have anything against you, but it's clear are a sock account of a member who was previously banned more than once already. That is why I can foresee that your stay here may, very well, be cut short.

Gouki's fight with Ryu wasn't a actually fight , it was just Gouki testing Ryu. this wasn't a fight, it was just a test.

Oh wow. Don't you even know that the planet is not even round? But an ellipsoid!? Each pole is entirely made of ice. Did you even watch the video?



That is the worst analogy I have ever read in my life. Tekken is Japanese for fist, so of course it is less powerful than Street Fighter, because the name Street Fighter implies using the whole body in combat. What you said makes no sense.



No you haven't. Stop lying to all of us. It's like saying you are gonna put on your Nikes and succeed in NBA. It just doesn't happen.



Oh jeez. State the obvious why don't you.


Yeah that was a really scary movie about a clown who terrorizes kids and stuff. So explain why I should not know about it? Because I obviously do. I mean, hell, I own the bloody Beta tape!



Oh now you're just contradicting yourself. How can you say "Makes" and "your" in the same sentence and expect that to hold up? I mean, you'll need some kind of super dooper excuse for that one. Go jump off a bridge and do us all a favor.



Yeah exactly. That's why you have to make a thread, because you want people to read what comes out of your mouth. But then you come along and make no sense whatsoever. And on top of that, you say that I don't make any sense? What kind of imbecile are you!?

(OK... I've release my inner troll. I am going to stop now. I did this because I was hoping that this thread would be a pretty good one, but instead it turned into a sea of virgin poop. I'm gonna stop reading now because I know this is gonna end soon.)

Originally posted by Lethal Force
What's my post count have to do with this, and I wasn't hostile. You don't want to see what me being "hostile" is.

I think the problem with some like C-M is whenever someone posts his or her opinion that Tekken or (insert some fighting verse that isn't KoF) can match SF in cases, that some automatically assume their's SF hate. That's not the case, like with me for example. Why would I, for example, hate one of the first series I've gotten into (i.e. became a fan of) since 15 years ago? Doesn't make sense.

So what if he has the same voice, so is Hercule from Dragon Ball Heihachi now because they have the same voice? Is KH Sephiroth the same as FF7 Sephiroth because "lol they have the same voice" (and no, I'm not being hostile now either, just posting this way since it humors me)? And saying he uses Ansatsuken isn't a good argument. There are several who use it, and Oni's style is a lot closer to Gouken's than Gouki's, hinting he's probably another dark student of Gouken's (for all we know, so it's just a thought).

That's your opinion though. It may or may not be referring to gameplay. Heck, as I've explained, being "beyond Shin Akuma" does not have to mean it's the same dude. If you or I was stronger than S. Akuma then we can be called "beyond S. Akuma", so for all we know this is what the author meant, thus there's no concrete evidence to establish Oni = Akuma in a greater form, and I said he wasn't stronger in terms of demonstrated capabilities, which is what we go off of nowadays.



So what you're getting at is, anyone who disagrees with you is banworthy? Sorry you didn't explain this part well. Again like FD said. The comment wasn't directd at you. I could care less what other people like. I'm talking about the spite threads and the people who make anti-sf threads and say things like "SF sucks" or "Capcom sucks", pretty obvious wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by Lethal Force
Do you read your own sources?

From your own link:



Being "beyond" Shin Akuma doesn't mean it's the same person.

Do you have at least 2 working brain cells?

Oni is stated as "an entire different character" 'cause gameplay-wise he's very different from the normal Gouki, but canon-wise he IS Gouki!

Call me what you like - it doesn't change the fact that even on sites like Capcom Unity people are debating whether or not it's the same character.

I have catch-up to do with some things so this'll be my final for some (no need for getting personal, here I've not flamed a person and the old feud in another topic is over, nor is there a need to take fictional debates to a personal level. It only shows who's a you-know-what and is meaningless) time, and if there's a response to it, hopefully it isn't an attempt to put down someone.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
I'm just saying you haven't been around long enough to be so mad at everyone who likes SF/Capcom.
You can tell if I'm mad through an internet forum? Maybe if I post happy smilies you'll see me in a different light? All I did was debate and because I didn't think Team SF takes a trophy home, I'm automatically "SF hater" now? Cut the noise bro, it's old / repetitive.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
But he wasn't directing that comment at you. The members he was referring to, ARE haters. And what's sad is, the haters are making the threads, they like to pick fights. The fact that you just joined and reacted so violently towards a comment made before you registered just seems like a bad look on multiple fronts.
I didn't react violently, at all Dingo, and zuleselkie (topic maker) is a hater? Hater of what? I've read all his posts and hardly saw bias.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
http://www.capcom.co.jp/sf4/character.html

Roughly translated by Vasili

http://shoryuken.com/f12/warriors-fate-street-fighter-story-thread-revived-173/index624.html

Now please. Stop.
In other words, when a member on another forum translates a bunch of text in Japanese to English, it automatically becomes a company-established fact? Does he / she work for Capcom and have the authority to do it? It's a yes or no, no beating around it.

And unfortunately I must repeat myself. This must also be canon since the OP never mentioned Oni, or, Akuma's "Oni" form if some prefer, and since we all like to go by doings, than what's Oni done beyond old Akuma? I've seen his SSIV ending a while back; again, nothing short of Akuma's potential besides the durability / heat resistance.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Not that I have anything against you, but it's clear are a sock account of a member who was previously banned more than once already. That is why I can foresee that your stay here may, very well, be cut short.
Even if this was true, why bring it up? Doesn't seem you don't have "anything against me" as you say in this case.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Which has nothing to do with the argument at hand. If Azazel could be defeated by Lars (And he was) then how is he a DBZ Planet Buster that people have claimed here?
No it does. Azazel, weakened purple one, was the one put down by Lars. Golden Azazel came back like a raging storm and considerably more powerful so...what's Lars now? Crap in comparison.

And no one brought up planet detonation. That's just what some assumed was meant by few people.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok, 2 things, first, name one non-canon ending I have used. Go on , really, name one, and actually explain why it's non-canon.
Well they (a number) AFAIC are not canon since they aren't confirmed to be in games or other company-made canon stuff, like many fighting game endings aren't, and if something's translated by someone who lacks authority to establish anything then it should be obvious what this is.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Second: So all the intros are canon now right? I guess Heihachi is a machinegod that likes to pose slowly and growl in front of a mechanical Kong Of Iron Fist Logo...
Ones that depict events (canon or otherwise), sure, so your example isn't such an event. Alisa appearing on a big screen TV isn't either. It's that "glamorous" part of an intro since visually it make no sense (another instance is Xiaoyu's phone having T6 gameplay on it). Kazuya and Jin fighting isn't some flashy on-screen pop-up and they, of all characters, would not be shown in an inaccurate manner, and it's not like this is Namco X Capcom Jin and Kazuya. It shows the same versions.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Watch the damn video again, tell me where the blast hit ground, or was even aimed at the ground, then come back and tell me that. Then explain to me why that intro contradicts the story, while Akuma training and inventing new techniques is not.
You're guessing the area flattened from a recoil. For all we know it was a released surge coupled with it, and I didn't say that intro "contradicts the story" nor did I say the ending contradicted anything.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
*shakes head* I have been the strongets advocate of disreguarding Tiamat for years, I never used it. You WF once praised people who did, why the change of stance?
No, I never praised anyone for that. I wasn't a proponent of out-of-game info unless it's backed up by the makers (that would include translations by them, and not anonymous people).


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Perceived Tekken hate on your part for not letting bullshit fly.
Sure thing mate.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Unconfirmed? The very reason the island sinker is admissable is because that entire scene is needed to move the plot forward (hence leading to the scenes with Ken and Sagat), te others are in character for Akuma and do not conflict with the plot of the story hence they can be taken as legit.
Neither does Feng Wei's T6 volcano ending for example (by the way his T6 prologue confirms he got the scroll without confronting Jinpachi, and it gave no power-up), but you didn't hesitate to oppose it time ago. Hopefully you're opinion on that changed though.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The intro, by contrast conflicts with known plot and scenes by way ofjumping jin out of turn and going against his entire planned course. The differences are staggering, and you choosing to ignore it is, frankly, disturbing.
He was wanting to awaken Azazel. This is caused by evil energy building up on the Earth, which, all that intro was accomplishing - launching missiles on the streets, high-speed chases, bombs detonating trains, and Jin fighting Kazuya only furthers Jin's goal here, and what's honestly messed up is thinking one, Jin is portrayed as suicidal in it despite him doing things rather casually, two, the trailer isn't an accurate potential display despite it's a company promoting their game, three you comparing it to an intro with Heihachi's face fading in from the background when it's not depicting an event canon or otherwise, and last but not least, you using UDON comics for evidence regarding another series, which completely nulls your argument against the use of the trailer.

The rest was either a repeat on your part or a failed attempt at a put-down. It's excluded as such. Take care btw. hug

And all group

@ the sock

Vasili can read and speak Japanese. All he did was translate the text on the site. You're just biased and grasping at anything. And the UDON comic has been stated to show canon powers and compared to the real canon, the comic has LOWER showings. They don't do very much in the comic.

Again, an instance where research would have done you some good. You know nothing of SF and you should learn before entering a discussion.

You guys having fun.

No, not really. I'm rather bored, which is the only reason why I would come to KMC anyway.

We need to chill at my place.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
No it does. Azazel, weakened purple one, was the one put down by Lars. Golden Azazel came back like a raging storm and considerably more powerful so...what's Lars now? Crap in comparison.

Azazel, in any form, should have beaten Lars if he had the level of power claimed by some in this very thread. He didn't, and thus we are back to sqare one.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
And no one brought up planet detonation. That's just what some assumed was meant by few people.

Orly? : Originally posted by crimson_2010
Orly? Sorry to bother you but did you see jinpachi's ending? have you read azazel's profile? did you see Devil jin tk5 ending? they all demonstrated power that can destroy the entire planet. I love sf characters but don't underestimate tekken cast.

as for the match, it could go either way, Kazuya and Ryu seems equal to me, Jin has demonstrated that he can go toe toe with the like of Akuma (well he defeated Ogre, Heihachi, Devil Jinpachi and Azazel).

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Well in Raven storymode, its said Jinpachi full power can destroy the world, the proof is there :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-wNF5ewguw&feature=related
I don't see the feat where Akuma can do such a thing, would you give me a proof?

Azazel is a demonic world destroyer , his ressurection would mean the end of the world except if someone who get the devil gene kick his ass.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXX2XrILyvY
this vid shows what Jin and Kazuya can rly do with a power punch. Well Akuma will have a hard time against these two.

I'm pretty sure thats a claim for planet destroying power right there dude.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
Well they (a number) AFAIC are not canon since they aren't confirmed to be in games or other company-made canon stuff, like many fighting game endings aren't, and if something's translated by someone who lacks authority to establish anything then it should be obvious what this is.

Sure, some endings are not canon, but not the ones your claiming.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
Ones that depict events (canon or otherwise), sure, so your example isn't such an event. Alisa appearing on a big screen TV isn't either. It's that "glamorous" part of an intro since visually it make no sense (another instance is Xiaoyu's phone having T6 gameplay on it). Kazuya and Jin fighting isn't some flashy on-screen pop-up and they, of all characters, would not be shown in an inaccurate manner, and it's not like this is Namco X Capcom Jin and Kazuya. It shows the same versions.

So, now your deciding to pick and choose which parts of the intros are canon? No... just no.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
You're guessing the area flattened from a recoil. For all we know it was a released surge coupled with it, and I didn't say that intro "contradicts the story" nor did I say the ending contradicted anything.

Guessing? The beam never touched ground! Watch the vid mate.

Umm, you said we should disreguard the SF endings for the same reason as I disreguard your intros, despite the fact that the circumstances bitween the two are entirely different. I said we should disreguard the intro for it's contradictory nature to the known Tekken 6 plot. You now want to disreguard the SF endings because..... Why again?

Originally posted by Swift Silence
No, I never praised anyone for that. I wasn't a proponent of out-of-game info unless it's backed up by the makers (that would include translations by them, and not anonymous people).

Bull... You never countermanded Sado's use of Tiamat for the 3 years you where a legal member. In fact, you outright agreed with him.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
Sure thing mate.

*Shakes head* You know I'm impartial, and I have stomped on my fair share of SFer fanboys, so don't even pretend I'm wrong on that.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
Neither does Feng Wei's T6 volcano ending for example (by the way his T6 prologue confirms he got the scroll without confronting Jinpachi, and it gave no power-up), but you didn't hesitate to oppose it time ago. Hopefully you're opinion on that changed though.

The reason I oppose it is because that ending was determinal on the scrolls actually providing a powerup to Feng, which we find in Tekken 6 that it does not, thus the feat is non-canon. Context - look it up sometime.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
He was wanting to awaken Azazel. This is caused by evil energy building up on the Earth, which, all that intro was accomplishing - launching missiles on the streets, high-speed chases, bombs detonating trains, and Jin fighting Kazuya only furthers Jin's goal here, and what's honestly messed up is thinking one, Jin is portrayed as suicidal in it despite him doing things rather casually, two, the trailer isn't an accurate potential display despite it's a company promoting their game, three you comparing it to an intro with Heihachi's face fading in from the background when it's not depicting an event canon or otherwise, and last but not least, you using UDON comics for evidence regarding another series, which completely nulls your argument against the use of the trailer.

Name me one time I've utilised UDON. I said numerous times that Capcom's statement refutes your grudge against that, but I myself have not used it ever. As for your assessment, Jin was going in for the kill in that clip, which directly contradicts his plan. Plus, why would he charge in solo when he has an army of his own? Your still using faulty logic to try and justify this. Oh, and I used the Heihachi fade as an example of non-canonicity within intros, which you claimed where canon in their entirety originally, and thus I proved you wrong.

Originally posted by Swift Silence
The rest was either a repeat on your part or a failed attempt at a put-down. It's excluded as such. Take care btw. hug

And all group

Thus you fail to address any later points I made to cover yourself yet again, this is becoming a bad habbit of yours WF...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The Hulk could be beaten, the others would win. Then you have Darkstalker characters who walk all over them, so there are always other characters out there.
ACtually if you read the hulk lines, the Hulk CANT die, even when fighting future form of himself, his body heals far to quickly for him to die; a broken neck resulting in a week of simple paralysis, and if he is in red hulk form he can literly crush an entire continent with his two hands. Stan lee admited in an interview "We cheated when we did the Hulk, we made a super Hero that Cant die and has unlimited power" During one of his later interviews about his career and favorite characters.

Originally posted by zuleselkie
ACtually if you read the hulk lines, the Hulk CANT die, even when fighting future form of himself, his body heals far to quickly for him to die; a broken neck resulting in a week of simple paralysis, and if he is in red hulk form he can literly crush an entire continent with his two hands. Stan lee admited in an interview "We cheated when we did the Hulk, we made a super Hero that Cant die and has unlimited power" During one of his later interviews about his career and favorite characters. He can be ko'ed and Iron Man and Namor have done it. He need not die. Only be ko'ed early. Or else he won't go down. He'll never touch Gouki though. Too fast.

Which is why I said "could". He also has "potentially" unlimited power, which is quite different.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
We need to chill at my place.

Dim the lights, light a few scented candles to set the mood and it's a deal.

I meant my forum, but...

Senile Stan Lee.....gotta love him.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Err, no it doesn't. It said that "Mankind will be exterminated", in an unspecified manner mind you. No indication of how. You've automatically assumed that he is somehow going to "Detonate the planet" ala DBZ style.... That is not the case.

Well, you have to remember that Jinpachi got revived by a Devil who want to destroy all existence, here is the bio : http://fenixware.net/fab/fab_charBio.asp?id=414&order=0
Also Jinpachi's ending prove my point, the "what if" Jin can't beat him, everybody would die and it doesn't matter how he'd do it because the world will be destroy by him anw..




Jin and Kazuya have also demonstrated energy manipulation (heck the spark which surrender them) and have mastered their fighting style ( mishima ryu for Kazuya and kazama style+ traditional karate for Jin). Have you seen Feng wei ending? His feat is comparable to Gouki




Lol , it's not a Hyperbol, have you read Zafna profile? Did you follow the scenario compaign? You will understand why Jin went through all this shit to save the world from a giant egyptian chiken, yeah he got his ass handed to him by Lars because Lars is a mishima and cuz of PIS.....



This intro show canon feat, it show what happen when this two collide. Also yeah because they can do more than that : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkqTZCvwfIE

Lol i didn't see Akuma on planetary level, he hasn't show the feat besides he tied with his brother who didn't have his destructrice power.

Ppl who can destroy the world or scratch it doesn't necessary mean they can beat everybody : Liu Kang defeated Shao kahn ( who has surnatural strenght and can destroy a dimension), Genra (who could oneshot a city) got owned by Ayane, Nightmare ( who defeated a whole army) tied with Siegfried, Orochi who is a God got beaten by the 3 sacred treasure, etc...

I'm sure Jin alone could put up a good fight against Akuma.

Do.... you.... not.... read.... what.... I.... post?!

No, seriously. All you did was return to previously shot down points and say "No, your wrong because I say so!" Not one attempt to even read the posts of this thread... I swear this is tedious....

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Well, you have to remember that Jinpachi got revived by a Devil who want to destroy all existence, here is the bio : http://fenixware.net/fab/fab_charBio.asp?id=414&order=0
Also Jinpachi's ending prove my point, the "what if" Jin can't beat him, everybody would die and it doesn't matter how he'd do it because the world will be destroy by him anw..

The terms "Wanted to" and "succeeded in accomplishing" or "Can do" are not interchangable. You cannot give a fat based on a "what if" scenario. The characters actually have to have accomplished the feat, for the feat to be logically enabled.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Jin and Kazuya have also demonstrated energy manipulation (heck the spark which surrender them) and have mastered their fighting style ( mishima ryu for Kazuya and kazama style+ traditional karate for Jin). Have you seen Feng wei ending? His feat is comparable to Gouki.

REALLY! Have they demonstrated it to the levelof their opponents? Not on your life. And read previous posts reguarding Feng, neither feat is official. The tekken 5 one is based on a what if conjecture, and the tekken 6 one hasn't been confirmed yet.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Lol , it's not a Hyperbol, have you read Zafna profile? Did you follow the scenario compaign? You will understand why Jin went through all this shit to save the world from a giant egyptian chiken, yeah he got his ass handed to him by Lars because Lars is a mishima and cuz of PIS.....

Zaffina's profile is also largely conjecture at this point because she feared Azazel's revival. This only demonstrates that she had no chance. Dude, You previously stated that only DG users could defeat Azazel, which is patentely wrong, as demonstrated by Lars who does ot have the DG. Mishima blood had stuff all to do with it.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
This intro show canon feat, it show what happen when this two collide. Also yeah because they can do more than that : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkqTZCvwfIE

What does the Tekken 5 intro have to do with the canonicity of the Tekken 6 one? And unless someone can reconcile the two points I raised earlier in the thread, then guess what, it's conjecture and a glamorised intro. not a legitimate feat. Nobody here has posted a single logical reconciliation bitween known plot and those events in the intro.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Lol i didn't see Akuma on planetary level, he hasn't show the feat besides he tied with his brother who didn't have his destructrice power.

I didn't see Jin or Kaz on a planetary level either exept in glamorised what ifs. I'm fairly certain I can find many fanfics which has Akuma dominating DBZ characters, and that would be just as legit as your so-called "proof".

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Ppl who can destroy the world or scratch it doesn't necessary mean they can beat everybody : Liu Kang defeated Shao kahn ( who has surnatural strenght and can destroy a dimension), Genra (who could oneshot a city) got owned by Ayane, Nightmare ( who defeated a whole army) tied with Siegfried, Orochi who is a God got beaten by the 3 sacred treasure, etc...

Which is the exact reason why you should not use the title to describe Ogre and then give that as a reason why it's such a good showing. Especially since Ogre is essentially featless.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
I'm sure Jin alone could put up a good fight against Akuma.

And again, I ask for proof, becuase akuma's established feats would mean he turns Jin into fishpaste and red vapour in a single punch.

Yawn.

I just love when fanboys, in total absence of any proof, just say something like "I'm sure that X can beat Y".

But I can think "I'm sure that crimson_2010 is just a Tekken fanboy" :P

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Sam, I don't even recall the last time I've debated with you. If it is you trying to pulll a rabit out of your crack (IE: trying to pull inconclusive feats out of your @$$) then yes, it's the same old shit... And like before, your still not providing anything.
Are you serious? Your the one trying to admit faulty logic as evidence and now your copping out. If you can't explain it, then just say so... Seriously, Corroborate the feat or GTFO. It's not oppinion as much as it is carefully deduced chain of events. Ok, now you've raised more claims, here we go again...
#1: Prove that the announcement of the tournament was not immediate as was said during both Kazuya and Jin's prologues.
#2: If Jin is aware that there is a price on his head, and made the announcement based on that fact, then why oh why did he charge out on his own to G-Tek, nearly get charblasted by rocket artillery, then charge up the tower despite all his plans to the contrary to awaken Azazel... This point is actually VERY IMPORTANT. he stated as such during the story mode. Why would he risk getting killed, or killing Kazuya for that matter before Azazel's resurrection? He had been aware of Azazel ever since Tekken 5, so any excuse you could conjure would defy this fact, as in Jin's entire reason for starting the war would be completely null and void by this one action.
Perfectly my ass, read above.... Either you havn't beaten the campaign mode, or your trying VERY hard to lie through your teeth. And I don't particularly care if I am alone in voicing my point, ad-populem is hardly a substitute for being correct.
Read above, specifically point 2, you have not taken any context into account when trying to summarise the story, it goes a hell of a lot deeper than your stating. You should try a little harder next time. If the video contradicts higher canon, then it is disreguarded unless coroborated.
You are not reading what I said, either that, or it's selective reading... I said, prove the feat happened IN STORY! It DOES NOT fit the story, and contadicts major events despite your protestations. Counter my points above and you may have a case. If G-Tek HQ was damaged during a fistfight before the tournament started, but after the announcement would have been mentioned in at least one prologue. It wasn't. Why should we assume then that the event happened? It's out of character, it's uncoroborated, and it doesn't fit the story or the timeline.
I will now wait to see what excuse you'll pull out of thin air next.... Ive been away for weeks so excuse me for not adressing every sentence seperately. Ive never "pulled anything out of my ass". Between you and me, it has always been like this - the feat exists, but you dont like it so you try to either downplay or completely ignore it like you did when we debated "Devil within" mini-game, just because you dont like it. So im just gonna say this: Id love to listen to more of your assumptions, made up conclusions and judgment of what characters in your opinion should or should not have done or other so called reasons to doubt its continuity. But Id rather take namco over your opinion. And so far we have this - I do not owe you any proofs, they made a video with characters displaying that kind of power level, the video perfectly fits that particular storyline (no matter what bs you pull out of your a$$ in attempt to prove the contrary) and thus is 100% valid and usable for vs forums. You dont like it, you're entitled to your opinion. But excuse me and the rest of us who will keep using it because we choose common sense over your baseless conclusions like "Jin acts weird/there was no time" and other nonsense you come up with as a reason to doubt its continuity. Good day.

Team 2. Ryu can beat anyone of the 2 and Akuma can take'em both out at the same time.

I think too that Gouki's presence unbalances the battle too much in favor of the SF team.

Maybe Jin and Kazuya vs Ryu and Ken would have been a more balanced and interesting fight.

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
I think too that Gouki's presence unbalances the battle too much in favor of the SF team.

Maybe Jin and Kazuya vs Ryu and Ken would have been a more balanced and interesting fight.

In that scenario I would go for Jin and Kaz. Ryu could take anyone of them on his own and win. Ken? Not so much. Without A<B<C, Ken doesn't have many showings.

It's all good tho, cuz what Ken lacks in feats and stuff, he makes up for in being the coolest motha f**ka in a fightin game. Sick character indeed. One of the OGs.

Ken has not very much feats, but I think that he's not too much worse than Ryu, or else he wouldn't respect him anymore as a rival, and be eager to have another spare fight with him. However I can see Ken lose to Jin or Kazuya.

I admit that it's just my opinion, but I think that Ryu and Ken have the same potential. What makes Ryu better is the fact that he's totally dedicated to his training, while Ken has his wife, the Master's Corporation (as we've seen in SF4, the ties that bind) and his child (as we've seen in his SF3 ending).

Originally posted by SamZED
Ive been away for weeks so excuse me for not adressing every sentence seperately. Ive never "pulled anything out of my ass". Between you and me, it has always been like this - the feat exists, but you dont like it so you try to either downplay or completely ignore it like you did when we debated "Devil within" mini-game, just because you dont like it.

Wow, you waited nearly a month to post this? And outright lies at that....

No Sam, it has NEVER been like that, but whatever floats your poor assed argument.

It's not that I don't like it, that doesn't matter. What matters is actually backing it up. Devil-Within has already proven to be non-canon, so I was right on that particular argument after all, wasn't I? Not a shred of hatred on my part was required for that.

Originally posted by SamZED
So im just gonna say this: Id love to listen to more of your assumptions, made up conclusions and judgment of what characters in your opinion should or should not have done or other so called reasons to doubt its continuity.

What did I assume anywhere in this debate? Where did I make up conclusions? Where did I cast judgement? And for the love of me where did I question continuity?

All I did, Sam, was get you to prove where the feat happened canonically, because it certainly doesn't fit with Tekken's chain of events nor Jin's plans at the time of said incident.

Originally posted by SamZED
But Id rather take namco over your opinion. And so far we have this - I do not owe you any proofs, they made a video with characters displaying that kind of power level, the video perfectly fits that particular storyline (no matter what bs you pull out of your a$$ in attempt to prove the contrary) and thus is 100% valid and usable for vs forums. You dont like it, you're entitled to your opinion.

Oh I see, so it's my oppinion that Namco says Jin was planning to fight Azazel, and in order to do this, he had to draw Kazuya into a protracted, long war to fill the world with negative energy? This directly contradicts the opening movie's portrayal of the Chain Of Events Sam, and no -I didn't bloody well make it up or BS it or pull it out of my @$$, despite what you think. Now, because the Intro is NOT canon to the storyline, hows about you stop lollygagging around and get back to the debate at hand?

Originally posted by SamZED
But excuse me and the rest of us who will keep using it because we choose common sense over your baseless conclusions like "Jin acts weird/there was no time" and other nonsense you come up with as a reason to doubt its continuity. Good day.

Until you prove it's canonicity, I will raise the issue whenever I see it. Common sense requires brains, and logical thought. You however choose blind faith without question.

And ya know, faith produced such awsome "truths" such as "The Earth is the center of the Universe" and "The World is flat." I guess these "truths" are also irrefutable in your world, right Sam?

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Ken has not very much feats, but I think that he's not too much worse than Ryu, or else he wouldn't respect him anymore as a rival, and be eager to have another spare fight with him. However I can see Ken lose to Jin or Kazuya.

I admit that it's just my opinion, but I think that Ryu and Ken have the same potential. What makes Ryu better is the fact that he's totally dedicated to his training, while Ken has his wife, the Master's Corporation (as we've seen in SF4, the ties that bind) and his child (as we've seen in his SF3 ending).

I agree. I liked how in SF the animated movie Bison's scientist theorized that either their robots failed to obtain their data or that Ken is holding back his full potential. They have mentioned stuff like that all the fricking time. I remember in the beginning of Udon's comics how Akuma told Ken that since he has something to lose/fear he will never be as powerful as he can be. Ryu later told Ken that it is possible that it can be the other way around with Ken's family being a trigger for him to reach greater heights. Viper also commented on Ken's prowess in the SF4 anime.

It is just that Ken will always be 2nd. At least they gave him an excuse with him actually having a life instead of just writting him off as "Sorry you just don't have what it takes"; a treatment many rivals suffer.

Yes. I liked what they've done to Ryu's friends-rivals.

Sagat: post retcon he's a fierce but honorable warrior, who's 100% a match for Ryu (actually, it was Ryu who managed to become a match to Sagat, since SF1 Sagat > SF1 Ryu).

Sakura: she's obviously weaker than Ryu, but she's very young and she didn't recieved proper training. She's incredibly gifted but I don't think her as a Mary Sue. I rather find Sakura very cute.

And Ken. He's s slightly worse than Ryu, but 'cause he's not a "full time warrior" like his friend.

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Yes. I liked what they've done to Ryu's friends-rivals.

Sagat: post retcon he's a fierce but honorable warrior, who's 100% a match for Ryu (actually, it was Ryu who managed to become a match to Sagat, since SF1 Sagat > SF1 Ryu).
http://images.wikia.com/streetfighter/images/5/57/Sagat-animation.gif
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades

Sakura: she's obviously weaker than Ryu, but she's very young and she didn't recieved proper training. She's incredibly gifted but I don't think her as a Mary Sue. I rather find Sakura very cute.
http://www.slateman.net/images/gaming/gifs/sakura-dance.gif
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades

And Ken. He's s slightly worse than Ryu, but 'cause he's not a "full time warrior" like his friend.
http://images.wikia.com/streetfighter/hu/images/1/13/Ryu-ken-cvs-specialintro.gif

Gif madness in celebration of Capcom not making everyone job to the poster boy and show proper respect to it's characters.

Even http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk270/moonlight_kaiser/MVC/dan5.gif is respected nowadays.

We all know that DAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything

Capcom "respects" the characters cuz SF is the only fighter I can think of where every character has a notable fan base and they don't wanna piss anbody off. Even Ingrid. I never thought I would see so many people complain about Karin, Elena, and Rolento not being in a SF game.

I agree. Wish Karin made it to the game.

lol she seems so irrelevant to me, so does Rolento. Why does everyone want them?!

I don't want to discuss with someone who can't even bring good argument, so please pipe down "sf fanboy". I like street fighter over tekken but unlike you i'm not so fond of "Akuma" or "Devil", i'm just impartial. Besides, i'm a Dead or Alive fanboy you ignorant



Why? because you think you're right on everything? Lol dude i call it bullshit, you argued on your own opinion with your "fact". The way you're pissed off proof that you gimme some valide point ^^.



It's not my fault if you haven't played the story mode otherwise you'll understand that Jinpachi final form = end of the world... go watch Wang Jinrey's, Raven's and lei wulong's stories. Besides your answered your own question, if Jin didn't beat Jinpachi, his ending would be real and thus the text after say it all




LMAO, Namco> your assumption. Lars beat Azazel, it's called PIS besides you don't understand what Jin was talking about. Only DG users can defeat and kill him. Lars fail to kill him cuz he protected his ass when Azazel began to shine and no matter who beat Aazel, he'll come back till A DG user kill him. You're simply as ignorant as Lars was....




Rofl dude srsly? For you tekken 5 intro isn't canon at all, wtf? i just wanted to show the supernatural force of Kazuya and if he can almost ripped Jack-4 in half with a single punch therefore Ryu would have a hard time dealing with Kazuya's power. Don't forget this is a versus thread where we can show every feats for every characters, so i did it with Kazuya.
Well Namco > you again





Simply pitiful, you have lost it dude... Fanfic? my proof is based on this versus thread and what Namco show you. it's you who started all this Akuma bursting island therefore > instant tekkenverse!!!





Ogre featless : he beated the **** outta Tekkenforces, he absorbed strong fighters's soul, he awakened Mokujin ( he awaken when the world is in danger). Besides the sentence you've quoted was mean for Akuma



Yeah that's why Ryu is still alive? If Ryu can tanked it, why not Jin? or maybe you want to see your sf Char win by any cost. you're simply ridiculous by a mile.

Ryu tanked that punch and Jin wouldn't, for the simple reason that Ryu has more endurance that Jin.

It seems that YOU are the one that want to see your Tekken chars win by any cost. You're simply ridicolous by a parsec.

Oh look, another one who decided to wait 4 weeks to try and get the last say.... Pitiful.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Why? because you think you're right on everything? Lol dude i call it bullshit, you argued on your own opinion with your "fact". The way you're pissed off proof that you gimme some valide point ^^.

I at least admit what I am at fault, unlike some of the ego driven pig headed debaters around here... And no, I'm not at fault here, nice try.

At least try to structure a sentence properly dude, your drivel here doesn't constitute an argument... I can barely read your ramblings.

So again, like I asked Sam, Where in the hell did I state an oppinion?!?! Nothing I said as ever conjecture, suspicion or assumption. What I Asked for was the intro's canonicity to known Tekken 6 plot, and raised 2 points to that effect, and neither of you answered a Single. Bloody. One. You either cannot prove it and are arrogantly trolling to try and get me to back off, or your both as idiotic as bricks.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
It's not my fault if you haven't played the story mode otherwise you'll understand that Jinpachi final form = end of the world... go watch Wang Jinrey's, Raven's and lei wulong's stories. Besides your answered your own question, if Jin didn't beat Jinpachi, his ending would be real and thus the text after say it all

http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/medium/double-facepalm.jpg

You ignorant....

Ok, I'll humor this little facade... Describe to me HOW Jinpachi "Ends the world". And if you come up with the DBZ style pop planet like a pimple, I am going to demand evidence.

Now, the humor is over. Jinpachi never demonstrated this supposed "Planet Bust" power anyway, why even bother to bring it up?

Originally posted by crimson_2010
LMAO, Namco> your assumption. Lars beat Azazel, it's called PIS besides you don't understand what Jin was talking about. Only DG users can defeat and kill him. Lars fail to kill him cuz he protected his ass when Azazel began to shine and no matter who beat Aazel, he'll come back till A DG user kill him. You're simply as ignorant as Lars was....

Did I say Lars "Killed" Azazel you reject? Read again, I said he defeated him. As in he knocked Azazel clean off his clock and made him eat temple floor. Do you deny this?

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Rofl dude srsly? For you tekken 5 intro isn't canon at all, wtf? i just wanted to show the supernatural force of Kazuya and if he can almost ripped Jack-4 in half with a single punch therefore Ryu would have a hard time dealing with Kazuya's power. Don't forget this is a versus thread where we can show every feats for every characters, so i did it with Kazuya.
Well Namco > you again

http://www.chaobell.net/newgallery/d/2365-2/1252260893259.gif

Your reading comprehension difficculty is REALLY starting to annoy me kid... And if your doing it on purpose, I will ignore your future posts.

Point out to me where I said anything relating to Tekken 5 intro if you please.

Also, since you just made a positive claim, I'll ask you why Ryu would have trouble with Jacks in any fasion, when he deals with a guy who... ya know... Pile Drives an Island under the sea with his fist!

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Simply pitiful, you have lost it dude... Fanfic? my proof is based on this versus thread and what Namco show you. it's you who started all this Akuma bursting island therefore > instant tekkenverse!!!

You really are retarded.... There is no two ways about it... You say that this thread is evidence for your argument within the thread? How the f*@k does that make sense? :/

Namco alluded to it perhaps, but it never happened, it's inadmissable. What_Ifs are NOT applicable in a theoretical debate UNLESS stated so in the OP as per forum rules. if you want to spin that way, then why not bring in all sorts of non-canon then? Anything made by Capcom to do with Ryu eh? Hows about soloing Galactus?

See? This kind thing is inadmissable PRECISELY because of situations like this.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Ogre featless : he beated the **** outta Tekkenforces, he absorbed strong fighters's soul, he awakened Mokujin ( he awaken when the world is in danger). Besides the sentence you've quoted was mean for Akuma

He defeated a bunch of armed men, which is something just about anybody with metahuman powers can do right? Mhmm, Soul Sucking.... 1 person... The circumstances are unknown, for all we know, Jun could have been cherrypicked, and besides, she wasn't exacly top tier in Tekken 2... Raising Mokujin? A feat which has been repeated at least 3 times since, and has no actual combat application anyway.

Ok, Your the only one who tried to use the title "God" to try and buff Ogre's image Crimson, I used no titles to describe Akuma. Your the one who harped on about Devils and Gods as though it meant something... so why was that sentence directed aGt a character that it never applied to?

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Yeah that's why Ryu is still alive? If Ryu can tanked it, why not Jin? or maybe you want to see your sf Char win by any cost. you're simply ridiculous by a mile.

Maybe it's because Ryu CAN tank such a hit, while nobody in Tekken has demonstrated the capacity to do so. So I do not see why a durability feat Ryu has demonstrated can apply to Jin, who has not demonstrated anywhere near as much durability. So, with logic and the demonstrated canon feats on my side, I don't see how I am ridiculous by any stretch, you and SamZed on the otherhand are WAY out of line, and by refusing to substantiate yourselves even remotely by answering my 2 raised points above, you two are simply trolling to try and save your asses.

About Jun's fate

Katsuhiro Harada, the director of Tekken, confirms that Jun is not dead, and the only absolutly killed characters are the first King and the first Armor King.

So Ogre has NOT absorbed her soul or killed her.

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Ryu tanked that punch and Jin wouldn't, for the simple reason that Ryu has more endurance that Jin.

It seems that YOU are the one that want to see your Tekken chars win by any cost. You're simply ridicolous by a parsec.

Where is your proof tha Ryu has more endurance Jin?
No argument = you fail. Well I said Ryu tanked it but i'm not so sure cuz Akuma was holding back against him.
I've at least one feat for Jin : during the end of tekken 6 where he tanked Azazel's laser+ the big explosion after falcon punched him, that's about it. I'm not sure if Ryu can tank that. I'm prolly sure that Ryu can't even tank the nuke Heihachi managed to survive or falling over a cliff.
Oh and LOL i don't want to see Tekken char win, i just said they would put up a good fight....
I'll just ignore you by now, jane!

Darkstorm : Bloody hell!! I'm tired of your childish game, i'll just stop here cause we can't comprenhend each other and you're simply a ignorant denial person. Just grow the **** up
Like someone says :"the sage embraces the silence, the fool can be heard for miles".
Oh and i've a life behind my computer unlike others, so don't be surprised.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Darkstorm : Bloody hell!! I'm tired of your childish game, i'll just stop here cause we can't comprenhend each other and you're simply a ignorant denial person. Just grow the **** up
Like someone says :"the sage embraces the silence, the fool can be heard for miles".
Oh and i've a life behind my computer unlike others, so don't be surprised.

I'm childish? Explain that, right now.

I denied nothing you two faced troll. I asked a F*@king question and you both jumped on the bandwagon and tried to railroad the thread. And then you spread lies and false accusations in an attempt to avoid answering.

That just about tears it, your being reported for flaming and trolling.

My two buddies going at it... awww...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Only in your limited imagination kid. Well, you've got plenty of imagination for both of us clearly. All the stories you come up with...


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Incorrect. I doubted it's place due to.... again, known plot. You couldn't reconcile the differences, thus your endless tirade to try and get me to back off AGAIN backfired spectacularly. ... what now? The known plot was well connected to the events of the game, thanks to the prologue. It doesnt matter it's DW's prologue as long as there are refeences to the events of the main storyline. And in this case they not only reference the storyline, they say exactyly when the events took place. All you got was a "wrong move".

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Who is the "rest of us" praytell? You, crimson (Who shares the boat of blatant trolling and denial syndrome) and a banned member wou couldn't pull a fact if his life depended on it? You need glasses, because NOBODY else agrees with you, and you know what? it wouldn't matter if they did or not, Ad Populem is not a substitute for being correct you facist. Cool, now you're changing the subject and calling me names. First sign of desperation when you realize how ridiculous your so called argument are.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

No, you solely relied on DWs own prologue, it's existence does not justify it's own canonicity. I guess TEKKEN Force and Tekken Bowling and even Tekken Ball are also canon according to your schewed version of events then. Have fun.Tekken prologue that connected the story of DW to the CANON events of the TEKKEN STORY. But you're to dense to even understand that. And changing subject again, tekken ball had nothing to do with any story, while DW was clearly said to take place after the canon events shown in tekken 5 and just because its DW's prologue that doesnt make it any less true. But good try.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Uh, Jin and Kazuya's prologue, and the Campaign modes dialogue. Specifically Jin's spech after you defeat him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTEMPZnbFaU Kazuya's prologue. Nothing. Couldnt find the rest in the net but nowhere does it say anythig close to that. So fail again. Let me guess, now you're gonna point me at some part of the video and come up with more of your "logical" conclusions calling them a definite proof.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Do you even try to comprehend the medium for which you debate Sam? All of this basically amounts to you drooling all over your keyboard. Why should I forget the fact that they sent the announcement first, because that is what happened. Secondly you STILL have refused to answer any point I raised. Concession accepted. My point stands. Your point fails so bad you're even trying to avoid openly discussing it. Think im making myself pretty clear here. One of your points was - there was no time. And since you can't possibly know that, you just choose to assume so and act as if its a fact.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

No Sam, you stop. Concede that you cannot answer my two raised points, or be reported. Go ahead. Didnt do anything wrong. You're the one calling me a nazi and a retard. Id love to answer your points, but you're not givving any. The two assumptions you've made I already answered. There was plenty of time for the fight to happen and there could be thousands of scenarios where Jin goes and beats Kazuya up without ruining his big plan in the process. So you're just wrong, feel free to admit it any time you want.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Bullshit, trolling is exactly what you are doing now, and by doing so, you are also breaking forum rules. Im only explaining to you why you're wrong, its not trolling. Insulting members, that is against rules.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Here, I will repost them again because you fail to read:
face meet palm. Those are the points I "ignored"? This whole time all ive been doing is explaining why those "points" of yours have nothing to do with anything and in no way prove that the video isnt canon. So it is you who failed to read my response. But let me try again.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#1: Prove that the announcement of the tournament was not immediate as was said during both Kazuya and Jin's prologues. The announcement was immediate. I NEVER argued that it was announced immediately. I called BS on your assumption that it somehow proves that there was no time for Jin and Kazuya to fight. Because as I already said, there was plenty of time for it to happen while they were sending invitations, arranging the tournament and waiting for the fighters to arrive. Could take days, weeks. Heck one day is all the time they needed for the chase and the fight to happen. So, yes this point I disproved a long time ago. Done. Next.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

#2: If Jin is aware that there is a price on his head, and made the announcement based on that fact, then why oh why did he charge out on his own to G-Tek, nearly get charblasted by rocket artillery, then charge up the tower despite all his plans to the contrary to awaken Azazel... This point is actually VERY IMPORTANT. he stated as such during the story mode. Why would he risk getting killed, or killing Kazuya for that matter before Azazel's resurrection? He had been aware of Azazel ever since Tekken 5, so any excuse you could conjure would defy this fact, as in Jin's entire reason for starting the war would be completely null and void by this one action. That point ive also addressed. That's the thing, its NOT important because its - you (an ordinary fan) questioning Jin's (a videogame character) motives and doubting if he did the right thing. "Why oh why" Who gives a crap if you do not think it was the right thing to do? Why was he riding a bike? We can only speculate, the point is - he DID and obviously had his own reasons. It in NO WAY controdicts the storyline. And you not knowing Jin's reasons for riding a bike or disagreeing with him doesnt make a difference and in NO way proves that the video isnt canon.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

There. There is no excuse for ignoring this Sam, this is your last chance before I declare a concession accepted and you are left holding whats left of your E-Penis. Whatever makes you better sleep at night, DZ. You've made several points, all of them come down to you doubting Jin's motives. And as I already told you, that is not a good enough reason to claim that the video isnt canon. While the bounty and the war being shown in the video is a pretty good reason to believe it is.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Trolling on purpose then? Even though what I raised was perfectly legal? And is 100% correct?

You are a sad sorry excuse for a debater Because I am the one who label a video "non-canon" based on my own judgment of what a videogame characters in my opinion should do? You should open a school, share your debating skills with people. Gonna be hillarious.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Right, because Jin doesn;t have a character storyline thats well established, right? GTFO! Yes he does. And NOTHING in that story prevents him from riding a frikkin bike or having in a fights.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

All of which is speculatory entirely Sam, at least I have the storyline backing me up. You dont. I only speculated to give you a taste of your own medicine. That's what you've been doing this whole time. Ive got a video that's clearly connected to the main storyline.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Your acting retarded again by accusing me of using an oppinion as fact, even though Jin HIMSELF stated what he did in Campaign mode. Campaign mode trumps intro cinema in terms of canonicity sam, learn this, realise this, and stop posting bigoted bullshit. And he stated EVERYTHING he's done since Tekken 5? Every little detail? The intro mentions that there's a war and a bounty and a tournament, while THE VIDEO shows some particular events, and it is made clear that these events are connected to the main story, it shows the war and Jin being hunted which fits the storyline. While in your oh so humble opinion it controdicts the main events. And that is the only reason you call BS on the video. So yes, your OPINION. Your opinion vs my.. no. Not my.. vs FACTS shown in the video.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Hah! YOUR the one relies on a poster who has even more aschewed logic than you who posted the video you liar. What now? What poster? I call things like I see them. And I see evidence that the video is connected to the main storyline and I see you try to ignore it because you doubt Jin's actions. So yeah, excuse me if im not ok with your nonsense.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Pretending alludes to me not presenting truth. This is a false assumption on your part. If you value facts sam, then reconcile the differences accurately as I did. Both sets of events cannot be official at the same time if they contradict eachother. I did pass a fact Sam, the facts are that Jin, who commands Mishima Zaibatsu and it's military power in the Tekken Force, suddenly galivanting off on his own, to face G-Tek military solo, charge up that glass tower, and tackle Kazuya and a few armed guards with full intent to kill. This however contradicts EVERYTHING he had done since Tekken 5 and everything else since. His entire reason for starting a war was not nessisarily to clash with Kazuya, but to draw out Azazel. To do this he needed Kazuya ALIVE and strong enough to fight and command G-Tek's military. You stupidly beleive the intro over the plot and you have the audacity to claim I am making assumption? AND then you say that it doesn't contradict because it's war? Now your trying to claim victory in this debate? Your logic is so aschewed I have to assume your in some kind of mental institution that allows internet access... That's the problem with you, DZ. You THINK it controdicts the main events because you dont know Jin's motives. Ill seperate the video into pieces and take it slowly so you even you can understand there time.
Jin riding a bike. A risky thing to do? Yes. But an impossible scenario? No. And itself in no way controdicts the storyline. Point for me. Bounty on Jin's head? A clear reference to the main storyline. Another point for me. Jin wanting to teach Kazuya a lesson for sending assasins after him. An arrogant thing to do? Yes. An impossible scenario? Hell no. You would've had the point if Jin actually killed Kazuya in the video but all they did was fight a little. Again, in no way controdicts the main storyline despite your speculations. One more point for me. And lastly, the war between the the two being shown in the video is another clear reference to main storyline. Last point for me. And you expect me to concede? So far everything speaks in my favor.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Are you telling me that Jin wasn't going for a killshot at Kazuya? Are you so dense as to even attempt to call what I say "Oppinion" and yet still spount off complete lies, contradictions and oppinionated crap? Go away Sam, you are entirely no longer credible in this or any debate.
My credibility is known on this forum thank you very much. Cant say the same about you. First of all, Jin had the chance to kill Kazuya and he didnt take it when he had a free shot. I am not telling you what Jin was going for or what he was thinking when he attacked Kazuya because I do not make stuff up, i am not you. Im only saying that Jin having a short throwdown with Kazuya doesnt ruing his plans. You can say it does all you want, itd still only be your speculation. And since we're on the subject, they are currently making a CGI movie, canon to tekken storyline, the events of the movie happen between tekken 5 and 6 and the trailer already shows Jin and Kazuya fighting. So we know for a fact they fought more than once even. Didnt ruin Jin's plans then, wouldnt ruin his plans now. So far, not a single reason to doubt that the video is canon. But please continue to speculate.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
To sum it all up in one sentence - what Jin did in the video does NOT
prevent the rest of the story from taking place and so the video itself does not controdict the storyline.

Sam, I'm not going to dignify this round of autofellatio you call a rebuttal.

Now kiss and make up...

Fellatio and the kissin?! That's just nasty...

But you like it.

I just vomited all over my internet apparatus, durin a very important meetin. Thanks for ruinin my day C Master!

A meeting with you and another man kissing you?

Fine by me, DZ. Was getting sick of yur speculations anyway. Return to your world of ignorance. Wont hear from me again.

Originally posted by SamZED
Fine by me, DZ. Was getting sick of yur speculations anyway. Return to your world of ignorance. Wont hear from me again.

Speculation on your part anyway. And ignorance is yours kid for blind faith. Either way, I'm too busy with RL to continue.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Speculation on your part anyway. And ignorance is yours kid for blind faith Yeah yeah whatever.

Get a room you two.

duriroll

Love is in the air.