Voided Sentry vs Black Adam

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"Id"
Go!

carver9
Voided Sentry stomps.

This isn't a good fight for Teth.

marwash22
Non-roided out Sentry would beat Adam.

Sin I AM
adam.....i never saw reynolds as the threat everyone claimed him to be

"Id"
Originally posted by Sin I AM
adam.....i never saw reynolds as the threat everyone claimed him to be As big as a threat? You mean as a team wreker? As the Void full incarnation, he is certainly a team wrecker. For taking on a full team of high profile characters on his own.

Voided out, he ripped Ares in half, and defended himself openhandedly against Terrax. I would think he is well matched for Black Adam.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by "Id"
As big as a threat? You mean as a team wreker? As the Void full incarnation, he is certainly a team wrecker. For taking on a full team of high profile characters on his own.

Voided out, he ripped Ares in half, and defended himself openhandedly against Terrax. I would think he is well matched for Black Adam.

depends on the team, thats avengers squad was nothing save thor, and the norn stones boost was too ambiguous, ares has shite durability, and lokis death was meh...all in all for all his supposed "power" he was only a local threat

-Pr-
Originally posted by Sin I AM
depends on the team, thats avengers squad was nothing save thor, and the norn stones boost was too ambiguous, ares has shite durability, and lokis death was meh...all in all for all his supposed "power" he was only a local threat

We should give you a medal.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by -Pr-
We should give you a medal.



lol because other than u im the only person in this thread who actually reads comics.... smokin'

"Id"

"Id"

"Id"

"Id"

-Pr-
What on Earth possessed you to post all that?

"Id"
Originally posted by -Pr-
What on Earth possessed you to post all that? To enforce, my claim how many times the Void has taken on team of heroes, and who.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by -Pr-
What on Earth possessed you to post all that?


im assuming he's trying very badly to prove sentry is trans

-Pr-
Originally posted by "Id"
To enforce, my claim how many times the Void has taken on team of heroes, and who.

Who didn't believe you?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
im assuming he's trying very badly to prove sentry is trans

i could twist that... mmm

kgkg
Originally posted by Sin I AM
im assuming he's trying very badly to prove sentry is trans You'd be crazy to think Void wasn't. Sentry on the other hand meh.

Sin I AM
hmmmmmmm......i gotta great question, what has void done that Norrin could not replicate (as written in seige), then would place him above high herald?

kgkg
Originally posted by Sin I AM
hmmmmmmm......i gotta great question, what has void done that Norrin could not replicate (as written in seige), then would place him above high herald? Seige was sort lived but Void-Sentry was still a team buster. I could Surfer doing something similar but the the story ended way to quickly to make a accurate judgment on his power levels. But the fact that he could one shot someone like Loki and reform at will puts him above Norrin. His early Void appearances had him beat Marvel earth very easily.

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by "Id"
To enforce, my claim how many times the Void has taken on team of heroes, and who. Now post the times Black Adam has.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by kgkg
Seige was sort lived but Void-Sentry was still a team buster. I could Surfer doing something similar but the the story ended way to quickly to make a accurate judgment on his power levels. But the fact that he could one shot someone like Loki and reform at will puts him above Norrin. His early Void appearances had him beat Marvel earth very easily.



meh, still doesnt place him at trans, so i really dont see the argument here....marvel earth jobbed ESPECIALLY STRANGE....and team wrecker is a horrible term, since that avengers crew sucked ass, now if u had said jla level team wrecker i would concur, HELL A WELL-WRITTEN ABSORBING MAN could do the same imo

kgkg
Originally posted by Sin I AM
meh, still doesnt place him at trans, so i really dont see the argument here....marvel earth jobbed ESPECIALLY STRANGE....and team wrecker is a horrible term, since that avengers crew sucked ass, now if u had said jla level team wrecker i would concur, HELL A WELL-WRITTEN ABSORBING MAN could do the same imo How did Marvel earth Jobbed? especially when Voids power level were unknown? He was considered a Universal treat?

Sin I AM
i just dont see it, imo at the most he's only proven to be a local maybe global threat, ....his power is always alluded to yet conveniently never shown and im not a fan of hyperboles

kgkg
Originally posted by Sin I AM
i just dont see it, imo at the most he's only proven to be a local maybe global threat, ....his power is always alluded to yet conveniently never shown and im not a fan of hyperboles But he was a global threat. No one on earth could stop the Void expect for the Sentry. What he did wasn't hyperbole it was shown on panel that Marvel earth was completely helpless.

If that's not above top tier I don't know what is.

Omega Vision
Void is Trans and should beat Black Adam. But let's be clear here, this:
Originally posted by marwash22
Non-roided out Sentry would beat Adam.
Is nonsense. Golden Man would get his face ripped off. uhuh

Sin I AM
wait a min kg, when exactly is he considered a universal threat?

kgkg
Originally posted by Sin I AM
wait a min kg, when exactly is he considered a universal threat? When Bob was first gathering the earth heroes to fight the Void.



Not only could they not beat the Void. Character like the Savage Hulk was shit scared to fight it. Only Bob could stop his alter ego.

tkitna
A non-roided out Sentry still has high feats though. I think he can hold his own or win against Adam. Its definatly not out of the realm of possibility.

Mindset
Originally posted by Sin I AM
hmmmmmmm......i gotta great question, what has void done that Norrin could not replicate (as written in seige), then would place him above high herald? Beat Molecule Man.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by kgkg
When Bob was first gathering the earth heroes to fight the Void.



Not only could they not beat the Void. Character like the Savage Hulk was shit scared to fight it. Only Bob could stop his alter ego.


that scan does not prove he's a universal level threat, a pissed off silver surfer could warrant the same amount of fear, i think you took the wording out of context

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by kgkg
Seige was sort lived but Void-Sentry was still a team buster. I could Surfer doing something similar but the the story ended way to quickly to make a accurate judgment on his power levels. But the fact that he could one shot someone like Loki and reform at will puts him above Norrin. His early Void appearances had him beat Marvel earth very easily.

The art wasn't that clear on what happened but I'm pretty sure he didn't one shot Loki. Not in the traditional sense at least. IIRC he impaled him with his tendrils and used maybe some form of matter manipulation to rip him apart.

For the record, Loki allowed himself to die. More so than the Void I'd wager. He planned to get killed and so on. It was stated he could have saved himself if he wanted to, despite being attacked by the Void.

Mindset
I love Rage.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Mindset
I love Rage.

Women generally do.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Mindset
Beat Molecule Man.


lol......if you count that as a win then i suppose u would think that

kgkg
Originally posted by Sin I AM
that scan does not prove he's a universal level threat, a pissed off silver surfer could warrant the same amount of fear, i think you took the wording out of context That was the context. Does that prove he was a Universal treat? No but I never said he was a universal treat I just said he was considered to be one.

I'm not sure where you getting the wording out of context but the context couldn't be any better.

Earth heroes have gather people Like Strange , Thor , Hulk etc... are all helpless to stop the Void.

Surfer could warrant the same amount of fear? When you have people like Strange , Thor , Reed , Hulk who were completely helpless.

Norrin is bad-ass but I don't think even he could take the entire planet.

"Id"
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The art wasn't that clear on what happened but I'm pretty sure he didn't one shot Loki. Not in the traditional sense at least. IIRC he impaled him with his tendrils and used maybe some form of matter manipulation to rip him apart.

For the record, Loki allowed himself to die. More so than the Void I'd wager. He planned to get killed and so on. It was stated he could have saved himself if he wanted to, despite being attacked by the Void. The only way Loki could survive was for him to run for dear live, otherwise he would be crushed by the Void.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by "Id"
The only way Loki could survive was for him to run for dear live, otherwise he would be crushed by Loki.

IIRC, it was said Loki could have hid himself under the carpet of the Universe or something similar. And that was referring to right before he was disintegrated and was being barraged by the Void's tendrils.

I agree, the Void would be crushed by Loki.

My main point is, that killing Loki shouldn't really be used as a feat for the Void. He sacrificed himself more so than the Void did.

zeel
voided out sentry wins.

no voided out sentry gets his ass handed to him.

Hyperion Prime
Void Sentry stomps Black Adam.

Black Adam stomps Sentry and buries him in field somewhere.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sin I AM
adam.....i never saw reynolds as the threat everyone claimed him to be no expression

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The art wasn't that clear on what happened but I'm pretty sure he didn't one shot Loki. Not in the traditional sense at least. IIRC he impaled him with his tendrils and used maybe some form of matter manipulation to rip him apart.

For the record, Loki allowed himself to die. More so than the Void I'd wager. He planned to get killed and so on. It was stated he could have saved himself if he wanted to, despite being attacked by the Void. Completely misinterpreted drivel. Void was above Loki and was oneshotted and the Void backed by the writer himself can come back when he wants to so he more than anyone allowed Thor to kill him. Strike that he forced Thor to do so. He forced his will onto Thor.

Mindset
Originally posted by Sin I AM
lol......if you count that as a win then i suppose u would think that Yea, usually when one person kills the other that's considered a win.

I know, it's a pretty crazy concept to grasp at first.

bwahaha_kid
.

the ninjak
Originally posted by bwahaha_kid
black adam ripps him apart , if thor could one shot bfr him black adam will destroy him

You mean Reynolds begging for death and Thor handing it too him. In a forum fight Sentry will not wish for death.

Void kills BA no probs.
Sentry simply continues to return to life until he particlises BA.

And Sin I Am assuming we don't read comics is a pretty low blow.
Pretty sad this argument has to be repeated so many times actually.
Shows real patriatism to team DC.

SamZED
Void Sentry wins.
Sentry depends on the incarnation. Bob Sentry gets stomped on. Golden guardian Sentry wins 7/10.


As for universal threat.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1888/sentryvoid17.jpg

bwahaha_kid
.

wildernesss
with all of sentry's current understanding of his powers (should he return), ba would be destroyed in seconds via molecular manipulation. it was clearly shown in the molecule man arc that sentry (not just void) was aware of his new found abilities. sentry can even tap into the void's powers without becoming the void. he did this during the female ultron arc & nearly ripped her head off. only a crying, emotionally incapacitated sentry (i.e. when iron man hacked cloc) would lose to ba.


sentry 9/10

bbrem123
Originally posted by SamZED
Void Sentry wins.
Sentry depends on the incarnation. Bob Sentry gets stomped on. Golden guardian Sentry wins 7/10.


As for universal threat.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1888/sentryvoid17.jpg

i agree...definitely depend on which sentry...GG sentry was beastly

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SamZED
Void Sentry wins.
Sentry depends on the incarnation. Bob Sentry gets stomped on. Golden guardian Sentry wins 7/10.


As for universal threat.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1888/sentryvoid17.jpg
Sounds like flowery prose to me.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Sounds like flowery prose to me.

there are plenty of references to him being a universal threat

but he has never really shown that power other then MM fight to warrant that

so those statements even if true should be put to the back for the time being and not taking at face value until he actually does something to back them up feat wise

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, usually when one person kills the other that's considered a win.

I know, it's a pretty crazy concept to grasp at first.


owen was out of his mind and not operating at full power, no?

Originally posted by the ninjak
You mean Reynolds begging for death and Thor handing it too him. In a forum fight Sentry will not wish for death.

Void kills BA no probs.
Sentry simply continues to return to life until he particlises BA.

And Sin I Am assuming we don't read comics is a pretty low blow.
Pretty sad this argument has to be repeated so many times actually.
Shows real patriatism to team DC.



it was a joke honey, i meant no harm, im just sick of the bs arguments. first off sentry feats and void feats should not be considered on and the same, since they are two completely diff powersetd and second the only person he pawned was Ares, since Loki grew a heart and became suicidal, and WANTED to die, which is the same argument Sentry lovers keep using against Thors defeat, yet conveniently forget it...

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Completely misinterpreted drivel. Void was above Loki and was oneshotted and the Void backed by the writer himself can come back when he wants to so he more than anyone allowed Thor to kill him. Strike that he forced Thor to do so. He forced his will onto Thor.

I really hope Rage sees this.

SamZED
@Sin I Am. True. But that doesnt take away Sentry's crazy level of mm.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by SamZED
@Sin I Am. True. But that doesnt take away Sentry's crazy level of mm.


what do u mean? crazy level of matter manip, or molecule man? lol im confused

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by quanchi112
Completely misinterpreted drivel. Void was above Loki and was oneshotted and the Void backed by the writer himself can come back when he wants to so he more than anyone allowed Thor to kill him. Strike that he forced Thor to do so. He forced his will onto Thor.

Oh really? I can post the scans if I need to. Everything I said happened on panel.

Quote where Bendis said Reynolds can return whenever he wanted.

Luckily for Sentry, Thor wasn't trying to kill him until the very end.

And Thor forced a giant lightning bolt down his throat. You should be very familiar with that feeling.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh really? I can post the scans if I need to. Everything I said happened on panel.

Quote where Bendis said Reynolds can return whenever he wanted.

Luckily for Sentry, Thor wasn't trying to kill him until the very end.

And Thor forced a giant lightning bolt down his throat. You should be very familiar with that feeling.



http://www.lessthanmotivational.com/images//2009/05/pics-or-it-didnt-happen.jpeg



i kid i kid, but id like to see what your referencing....... smokin'

SamZED
Originally posted by Sin I AM
what do u mean? crazy level of matter manip, or molecule man? lol im confused Molecule manipulation.big grin He should be able to take Adam apart..whistle

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sin I AM
i kid i kid, but id like to see what your referencing....... smokin'

Loki's death:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/576/siege04thostewmeganpg11.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4776/siege04thostewmeganpg12.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3215/siege04thostewmeganpg13.jpg

Gillen explaining his shitty characterization in Siege:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4320/jim622legioncps025.jpg
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/953/jim622legioncps026.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7469/jim622legioncps027.jpg

shokosugi
Void was defeated by a hellicarrier

Mindset
Originally posted by Sin I AM
owen was out of his mind and not operating at full power, no?
No.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Mindset
No.


Yes. Owen was out of his mind, and allowed himself to be disintegrated, its a terrible showing.

Mindset
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yes. Owen was out of his mind, and allowed himself to be disintegrated, its a terrible showing. Originally posted by Mindset
No.

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
Completely misinterpreted drivel. Void was above Loki and was oneshotted and the Void backed by the writer himself can come back when he wants to so he more than anyone allowed Thor to kill him. Strike that he forced Thor to do so. He forced his will onto Thor.

Lol at the "backed by the writer" part.

tkitna
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Loki's death:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/576/siege04thostewmeganpg11.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4776/siege04thostewmeganpg12.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3215/siege04thostewmeganpg13.jpg

Gillen explaining his shitty characterization in Siege:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4320/jim622legioncps025.jpg
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/953/jim622legioncps026.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7469/jim622legioncps027.jpg

I'm not arguing any point here, but what do these scans show? Sure Loki wanted to die, but the only way he could have survived the encounter was if he ran away and hid?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by tkitna
I'm not arguing any point here, but what do these scans show? Sure Loki wanted to die, but the only way he could have survived the encounter was if he ran away and hid.

If Loki wanted to die, who's to say he didn't allow the Void to get him in his clutches in the first place? If he could have saved himself even at the last moment, I wonder what he could have done during the battle if defeating the Void was his main objective.

If nothing else, using Loki dying as a feat of combat formidability for the Void is probably less valid than using Reynolds staying dead as power showing for Thor.

tkitna
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I wonder what he could have done during the battle if defeating the Void was his main objective.

From reading both sets of scans, not much. Not once does it state anywhere or even presume that Loki could have defeated the Void. The second set of scans states the opposite actually.



True. I've never used killing Loki as some big deal personally. I just thought it was given by everyone that Loki could never defeat him.

the ninjak
Loki wanted to die???

Sure he was a bit upset and noble but suicidal....I don't think so.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by the ninjak
Loki wanted to die???

Sure he was a bit upset and noble but suicidal....I don't think so.

I'm really hoping you just didn't see the scan:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/953/jim622legioncps026.jpg

the ninjak
laughing

Oh well always wanted to see him as a hero figure.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by tkitna
From reading both sets of scans, not much. Not once does it state anywhere or even presume that Loki could have defeated the Void. The second set of scans states the opposite actually.

I didn't say defeat the Void but if he wanted to die, logic dictates he could have come out looking better which is my stance. How much better? Who knows, perhaps a noticeably amount. I always thought he went out like a b*tch compared to how much of a master planner he was under Gillen. Thank god for this recent revelation. Bendis should not be allowed to write some characters.

Not really. It just says if he wanted to survive, he could have saved himself by fleeing right at the very last moment.

Originally posted by tkitna
True. I've never used killing Loki as some big deal personally. I just thought it was given by everyone that Loki could never defeat him.

Killing someone as powerful as Loki is a big deal. But due to his goals, it's not one I would use as a feat for the Void.

psycho gundam
looks like they are trying to fix the lameness of siege. i don't believe the writer of siege had this in mind when he had loki die like a lame

Deadline
Spite Void wins. Oh god this brings up Siege were Thor 'helds his own against Void'. Never happened.

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
looks like they are trying to fix the lameness of siege. i don't believe the writer of siege had this in mind when he had loki die like a lame

it's Bendis, so no.

Deadline
Can't see anything particularly lame about how Loki died. Dunno think people give Bendis too much of a hard time.

The Pict
Originally posted by "Id"
As big as a threat? You mean as a team wreker? As the Void full incarnation, he is certainly a team wrecker. For taking on a full team of high profile characters on his own.



Much like Black Adam....

-Pr-
Originally posted by Deadline
Can't see anything particularly lame about how Loki died. Dunno think people give Bendis too much of a hard time.

And that would be fine, except for all the other stuff he's done.

Just be glad you're not a Hank Pym fan either.

Originally posted by The Pict
Much like Black Adam....

Aye. Most of the higher heralds are team wreckers anyway.

the ninjak
Originally posted by -Pr-
Just be glad you're not a Hank Pym fan either.

Pyms cool. He's like the Beast of the Avengers. Cept alot smarter.

He's a bit nuts too. I like that in heroes.

"Id"
Originally posted by The Pict
Much like Black Adam....

So.. Black Adam can handle the following all at once? Sentry, Dr. Strange, Thor and the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Hulk, Namor, Spider-Man and a few I missed.

Deadline
Originally posted by -Pr-
And that would be fine, except for all the other stuff he's done.

Just be glad you're not a Hank Pym fan either.



I don't know seems to have handled alot of characters just fine, think people are blowing things out of proportion.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Deadline
Can't see anything particularly lame about how Loki died. Dunno think people give Bendis too much of a hard time.

Lol? You can't be serious with this.

Gillen wrote an incredible Loki who was sadistic, cuel, a master planner and a genius. He really got his Lucifer on. Then boom comes Bendis, utterly shitting on all of that. He has Loki do a complete 180, where he prays to Odin and goddamn cries as he tries to save Asgard. Why? Five gets you ten it's because Bendis thought it was cool. Loki then goes out like a b*tch with an "I'm sorry brother msn-cry ". Horrible. Loki essentially went from a mastermind to a child who played with forces he did not comprehend. I always hoped someone would reveal Loki had a large endgame in mind.

I don't want to get into this as it'll just amount to me slapping you in the face with 50 + years of continuity. True, in the past Loki has wanted to rule Asgard instead of destroy it but Bendis went to an entirely different level. And it really didn't help as it was made clear Loki wanted Asgard destroyed previously.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know seems to have handled alot of characters just fine, think people are blowing things out of proportion.

laughing out loud

Then you really haven't been reading the Avengers after he took over or weren't reading them before he took over. Bendis is a lying schmuck that should have never been put on the title.

753
void wins

@rage

where is the idea that loki had been planning to get killed during siege coming from?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4320/jim622legioncps025.jpg
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/953/jim622legioncps026.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7469/jim622legioncps027.jpg

Deadline
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol? You can't be serious with this.

Gillen wrote an incredible Loki who was sadistic, cuel, a master planner and a genius. He really got his Lucifer on. Then boom comes Bendis, utterly shitting on all of that. He has Loki do a complete 180, where he prays to Odin and goddamn cries as he tries to save Asgard. Why? Five gets you ten it's because Bendis thought it was cool. Loki then goes out like a b*tch with an "I'm sorry brother msn-cry ". Horrible. Loki essentially went from a mastermind to a child who played with forces he did not comprehend. I always hoped someone would reveal Loki had a large endgame in mind.

I don't want to get into this as it'll just amount to me slapping you in the face with 50 + years of continuity. True, in the past Loki has wanted to rule Asgard instead of destroy it but Bendis went to an entirely different level. And it really didn't help as it was made clear Loki wanted Asgard destroyed previously.

Gimmie a break I don't really care wether you hit me with 50yrs of contunity or not. I don't give enough of a **** about Loki to care about being right. Yea I know Loki has wanted Asagard destroyed before anyone whos read a decent amout of Thor knows that, I just don't care.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


laughing out loud

Then you really haven't been reading the Avengers after he took over or weren't reading them before he took over. Bendis is a lying schmuck that should have never been put on the title.

Whatever I've been reading nuff Marvel titles for years. I've read Avengers before he was on it and really that should be enough.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Deadline
Gimmie a break I don't really care wether you hit me with 50yrs of contunity or not. I don't give enough of a **** about Loki to care about being right. Yea I know Loki has wanted Asagard destroyed before anyone whos read a decent amout of Thor knows that, I just don't care.

So you were just talking out of your *ss? Okay then carver.

Originally posted by Deadline
Whatever I've been reading nuff Marvel titles for years. I've read Avengers before he was on it and really that should be enough.

Then Bendis must really tick you off with his horrible battles, characterization, piss poor dialogue, decompression, and ignorance of continuity.

True some times his work is decent, but during other instances? My eyes bleed.

I can honestly say that I do not understand how someone who was a fan of even Busiek could also enjoy Bendis.

srankmissingnin
Maybe Deadline remembers the dredge the Avengers line was putting out before Bendis came on board? You can say what you will about Bendis (and I think the Avengers needs a new writer as much as anyone) but I also remember the garbage the Avengers was in the 2000s before Bendis came on board and as bad as it is now, it isn't a 1/10th of what it was ten years ago.

Allankles
Originally posted by "Id"
So.. Black Adam can handle the following all at once? Sentry, Dr. Strange, Thor and the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Hulk, Namor, Spider-Man and a few I missed.

Depends on the context. If they come at BA one at a time, while he won't wreck them he can blitz them i.e. get them out of his way if he wanted. In WW3 the heroes, besides not being the best of the best teams, kind of gave BA a pass.

They tried stopping him without using lethal force and they were also just attacking him by turns rather than jumping him at the same time. We saw what happens when they jumped on him 3 at a time or more, they were able to physically restrain him.

Deadline
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So you were just talking out of your *ss? Okay then carver.





The way I see it Bendis was suggesting that Loki wasn't all bad and since I've read alot of Norse Lore thats more consistent with that Loki. Yes, yes I understand they're different but sometimes people get inspiration from the myths (no idea if he did that though). I'm not entirely sure wether Loki showing some remorse is 100% out of character hell villains do reform.

No I don't think I was talking out of my arse.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Then Bendis must really tick you off with his horrible battles, characterization, piss poor dialogue, decompression, and ignorance of continuity.

True some times his work is decent, but during other instances? My eyes bleed.

I can honestly say that I do not understand how someone who was a fan of even Busiek could also enjoy Bendis.

Not really. He does stuff that can be annoying but like I said I think people blow things out of proportion. You seem to have a problem understanding difference of opinion sometimes.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Maybe Deadline remembers the dredge the Avengers line was putting out before Bendis came on board? You can say what you will about Bendis (and I think the Avengers needs a new writer as much as anyone) but I also remember the garbage the Avengers was in the 2000s before Bendis came on board and as bad as it is now, it isn't a 1/10th of what it was ten years ago.

People are just too fussy.

Bendis doing some bad stuff = hes a moron and doesn't do anything good.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Maybe Deadline remembers the dredge the Avengers line was putting out before Bendis came on board? You can say what you will about Bendis (and I think the Avengers needs a new writer as much as anyone) but I also remember the garbage the Avengers was in the 2000s before Bendis came on board and as bad as it is now, it isn't a 1/10th of what it was ten years ago.

Eh? Busiek's run was pretty fun and is superior to Bendis' work. At least imho. Wrote some great stories. Bendis can write some decent Avenger's work -like his early stuff on Mighty- but when it gets bad, it gets really bad. Bendis is a great writer, at least when he does something like Daredevil. He simply seems to be oblivious to his comfort zone and limitations. Just lacking in self awareness.

Allankles
Originally posted by Deadline
The way I see it Bendis was suggesting that Loki wasn't all bad and since I've read alot of Norse Lore thats more consistent with that Loki. Yes, yes I understand they're different but sometimes people get inspiration from the myths (no idea if he did that though). I'm not entirely sure wether Loki showing some remorse is 100% out of character hell villains do reform.

Loki reforming is actually good for the character imo. I read a Loki story arch where he takes over Asgard and even with that, there's a prophecy that says he's always destined to fail, and he knows it too.

Kind of hard being a villain when you're working under those rules - make him a byronic anti-hero I say. At least that way we get to see something new.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Deadline
The way I see it Bendis was suggesting that Loki wasn't all bad and since I've read alot of Norse Lore thats more consistent with that Loki. Yes, yes I understand they're different but sometimes people get inspiration from the myths (no idea if he did that though). I'm not entirely sure wether Loki showing some remorse is 100% out of character hell villains do reform.

I don't give a shit about Norse Lore. I'm talking about Marvel Comics. Bendis had Loki do a complete 180 out of nowhere. No person with the ability to read could go through the Thor related title issues and claim he was true to the character.

Loki was literally crying on his knees. erm And this wasn't some grand scheme by Bendis, that was what he intended.

And for the record, any remorse Loki had died a long time ago.

Originally posted by Deadline
No I don't think I was talking out of my arse.good.

Seeing as how your argument amounted to referencing North mythology.....

Originally posted by Deadline
Not really. He does stuff that can be annoying but like I said I think people blow things out of proportion. You seem to have a problem understanding difference of opinion sometimes.good.

I'm not sure what to use here. The classic There is no Chaos Magic" issue, or the recent "Time is Broken" hit.

Out of proportion? I don't think so.

carver9
Originally posted by "Id"
So.. Black Adam can handle the following all at once? Sentry, Dr. Strange, Thor and the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Hulk, Namor, Spider-Man and a few I missed.

You forgot Black Bolt and Black Adam would die in a panel againt this squad.

Bentley
Personally I liked Busiek, a lot, and I also liked some things Bendis did with the Avengers; he annoyed me the most when it came to events opposed to his actual runs -even if I can't care about Marvel's magic if Bendis is writing-.

Allankles
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And for the record, any remorse Loki had died a long time ago.

I always saw Loki as a sympathetic baddie. Like a Lex Luthor, there's always the feeling that he could be redeemed - if only he had the courage to abandon his pride.

Deadline
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't give a shit about Norse Lore. I'm talking about Marvel Comics. Bendis had Loki do a complete 180 out of nowhere. No person with the ability to read could go through the Thor related title issues and claim he was true to the character.

Loki was literally crying on his knees. erm And this wasn't some grand scheme by Bendis, that was what he intended.

And for the record, any remorse Loki had died a long time ago.



Seeing as how your argument amounted to referencing North mythology.....

You're missing the point. It's pretty obvious that some times in Marvel comics that writers gain inspiration from Norse myth eg one of the reasons why Thor is represented the way he is is due to the Lay of Harbard. The origin of these character is Norse Lore so obvoulsy it's logical that sometimes this will influence them. This is not a difficult point to comprehend.

Also my second point. Villains reform all the time Mags, Juggernaut etc. Everyones probably read stories about how Thor and Loki have gone on adventures together, that version of Loki seems to be getting a push ie villain and sometimes dysfunctional hero

No I'm not talking out of my arse you are again starting to show an inability to understand an opinion which is different from yours.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I'm not sure what to use here. The classic There is no Chaos Magic" issue, or the recent "Time is Broken" hit.

Out of proportion? I don't think so.

Exactly what I'm talking about, still banging on about that. So he did that that means everything hes done sucks?

srankmissingnin
I like Busiek's Thunderbolts, but hated nearly all of Avengers v3.

Deadline
I really enjoyed Bendis on Mighty Avengers, I really didn't understand what the big fuss was all about.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Allankles
I always saw Loki as a sympathetic baddie. Like a Lex Luthor, there's always the feeling that he could be redeemed - if only he had the courage to abandon his pride.

A sympathetic villain? That psychopath has been trying to kill Thor since they were children. Every time he stubs his toe, its somehow Thor's fault.

There was the mini in 2004 which made Loki a much more sympathetic character in comparison to what has come before but that was an outlier. Even in the recent Loki mini where they went with a more sympathetic Loki, it was made clear that he enjoyed the look of fear over admiration. He liked it. Loki is a sadistic and murderous character at his core. Fun fact about the 2004 mini, the writer I believe stated the Hela visions were made up by Loki and the new miniseries played on that as well. He's so warped that his very memories of events are false.

My guess? The writer was trying to play on the fact that Loki couldn't bear to know the truth. That no one is responsible for Loki other than Loki.

I enjoy a more sympathetic origin personally but even before he started butchering people, he should have a cruel and sadistic side to him. This mischievousness eventually grows into straight up evil as Loki realizes how much he enjoys power, fear etc. Then at some point he completely crosses the line of any redemption.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Deadline
You're missing the point. It's pretty obvious that some times in Marvel comics that writers gain inspiration from Norse myth eg one of the reasons why Thor is represented the way he is is due to the Lay of Harbard. The origin of these character is Norse Lore so obvoulsy it's logical that sometimes this will influence them. This is not a difficult point to comprehend.

No, you're missing the point. Norse Lore really has no bearing and cannot be used to excuse Bendis. The notion of Bendis going through Norse Lore in itself is hilarious.

At the end of the day, he straight up ignored what happened in the Thor title. Loki did a complete 180 without any explanation.

It's not a matter of opinion, or character growth. Loki literally saw Sentry bring down Asgard and said it was a job not finished. Then boom comes #4 and Loki suddenly is in tears. Do you not understand that he went from a sadistic murderer who dissected children with Doom to a crying martyr with no actual explanation?

Originally posted by Deadline
Also my second point. Villains reform all the time Mags, Juggernaut etc. Everyones probably read stories about how Thor and Loki have gone on adventures together, that version of Loki seems to be getting a push ie villain and sometimes dysfunctional hero

baka

Loki being redeemed is like the Joker being redeemed. There's nothing there anymore. His just hate, jealousy and malice. Loki as he was then was simply incapable of it. It's like Superman or Thor turning around and going on a killing spree without any outside factors. His the god of Chaos and Evil, it's in his very nature. The child/adult Loki scene was very well done because of this. Like kid Loki said, the only person Loki would ever sacrifice himself for, is Loki. Even if he wanted to change, he couldn't, they were trapped in their respective roles which is against the nature of a god of Chaos.

And you know the worst part? This was done instantly without any explanation. He wrote a different character. What don't you understand?

Five gets you ten I can find more stories where Loki is plotting to kill Thor as a child.

Originally posted by Deadline
No I'm not talking out of my arse you are again starting to show an inability to understand an opinion which is different from yours.

Yes you are. It's not a matter of opinion. That doesn't have anything to do with this. Bendis simply pissed on Loki's character. No two ways about it.

Originally posted by Deadline
Exactly what I'm talking about, still banging on about that. So he did that that means everything hes done sucks?

What am I supposed to do, ignore it? It happened.

Lawlz at this strawman. When did I ever say everything his done sucks? I've outright said some of the Avenger's work his done has been decent and recently gave a thumbs up for the .1 issue. Unfortunately his run on the main Avengers title as a whole has been disappointing. He should just write the New Avengers and give the main title to someone else.

the ninjak
I agree that Loki should not have been written recently as regretful and suicidal.

In Siege Loki saw the extent of his mischief and saw that he created a monster that would destroy EVERYTHING and resorted to helping eliminate that threat. Which resulted in Void launching at Loki and particlising him.

And Loki in the past has done his part to defend. But the idea of him conversing with his younger self admiting shame is odd. I hope it's just the older Loki fooling his younger clone to do enough good to cause some mischief.

Deadline
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, you're missing the point. Norse Lore really has no bearing and cannot be used to excuse Bendis. The notion of Bendis going through Norse Lore in itself is hilarious.


You don't have to go through Norse lore alot of people have vague memories of it ie Thor and Lokis trip to Utgard Loki.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

At the end of the day, he straight up ignored what happened in the Thor title. Loki did a complete 180 without any explanation.

It's not a matter of opinion, or character growth. Loki literally saw Sentry bring down Asgard and said it was a job not finished. Then boom comes #4 and Loki suddenly is in tears. Do you not understand that he went from a sadistic murderer who dissected children with Doom to a crying martyr with no actual explanation?



baka

Loki being redeemed is like the Joker being redeemed. There's nothing there anymore. His just hate, jealousy and malice. Loki as he was then was simply incapable of it. It's like Superman or Thor turning around and going on a killing spree without any outside factors. His the god of Chaos and Evil, it's in his very nature. The child/adult Loki scene was very well done because of this. Like kid Loki said, the only person Loki would ever sacrifice himself for, is Loki.

And you know the worst part? This was done instantly without any explanation. He wrote a different character. What don't you understand?

Five gets you ten I can find more stories where Loki is plotting to kill Thor as a child.



Yes you are. It's not a matter of opinion. That doesn't have anything to do with this. Bendis simply pissed on Loki's character. No two ways about it.

Yes I understand that completely. I actually didn't know about Loki trying to kill Thor as a child or dissecting children. This isn't the only argument I made though. As I have already pointed out villains actually reform in comics. Magneto hasn't tried to dissect children but I'm pretty sure hes been in a position were he knew his actions would kill children. Hell even some reprensentations of Dr Doom aren't evil and hes shown to have good characteristics.

The way I saw it Loki hates Thor and Asagard but when he was on the actual verge of actually destroying it he didn't want to do it, he has actually defended Asagard before. Despite all his hate a part of him still likes Asagard.

I'm not even arguing that it's out of character, to me it's not a big deal. Hell Fraction made Punisher allow himself to get beaten up by Cap when hes shot him twice. For me it was out of character but it could happen.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

What am I supposed to do, ignore it? It happened.

Lawlz at this strawman. When did I ever say everything his done sucks? I've outright said some of the Avenger's work his done has been decent and recently gave a thumbs up for the .1 issue. Unfortunately his run on the main Avengers title as a whole has been disappointing. He should just write the New Avengers and give the main title to someone else.

Yes you even stated that you like some of his stuff, the point is you can't keep pinning that shit on him when hes done good stuff.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Deadline
You don't have to go through Norse lore alot of people have vague memories of it ie Thor and Lokis trip to Utgard Loki.

I'm unsure whether you're referring to the comic book or to the myths. Either way, I'd be shocked if Bendis is aware of it.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yes I understand that completely. I actually didn't know about Loki trying to kill Thor as a child or dissecting children. This isn't the only argument I made though. As I have already pointed out villains actually reform in comics. Magneto hasn't tried to dissect children but I'm pretty sure hes been in a position were he knew his actions would kill children. Hell even some reprensentations of Dr Doom aren't evil and hes shown to have good characteristics.

The way I saw it Loki hates Thor and Asagard but when he was on the actual verge of actually destroying it he didn't want to do it. Despite all his hate a part of him still likes Asagard.

I'm not even arguing that it's out of character, to me it's not a big deal. Hell Fraction made Punisher allow himself to get beaten up by Cap when hes shot him twice. For me it was out of character but it could happen.

And I'm pointing out to you that Loki reforming, especially so much in mere moments is utterly ridiculous and stretches the realm of disbelief to it's breaking point. Loki's pretty much irredeemable as far as villains go. This was a noticeable point of Gillen's work. As he is now, Loki could not change, but he had to find a way hence the plan to return as a child. It was a lot more interesting than Bendis' child who played with fire and got burned.

Do I really have to mention Loki conquering and destroying Asgard, killing most of it's denizens, and then rebuilding it in his image? Please don't try the change of heart game with Loki. It's not an argument you'll win. His pretty much gone as far as a villain can go when it comes to crossing the line.

Loki once defended Asgard against Surtur because if the fire demon won, the Universe would be lost. That's as good as Loki gets imo and even then, it was clear where his loyalties lied. He doesn't want to destroy everything. That's one of Loki's good qualities.

I'm so goddamn tired of people who support Bendis making up crap for no other reason than to explain his disregard for continuity. Bendis doesn't give a shit what happens in other books or what has happened in the past. He's a schmuck. It's really as simple as that. Trying to spin this into Bendis getting inspiration from Norse Lore etc. is just....

Originally posted by Deadline
Yes you even stated that you like some of his stuff, the point is you can't keep pinning that shit on him when hes done good stuff.

So what, we ignore his crappy writing in favor of the good?

Deadline
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm unsure whether you're referring to the comic book or to the myths. Either way, I'd be shocked if Bendis is aware of it.


Myths. Most people are vaguely famaliar with the myths lets not pretend he doesn't know anything about them just because he did something you don't like.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And I'm pointing out to you that Loki reforming, especially so much in mere moments is utterly ridiculous and stretches the realm of disbelief to it's breaking point. Loki's pretty much irredeemable as far as villains go. This was a noticeable point of Gillen's work. As he is now, Loki could not change, but he had to find a way hence the plan to return as a child. It was a lot more interesting than Bendis' child who played with fire and got burned.

I'm not sure what you mean by reform. I don't think Bendis was trying to turn Loki into a good guy, all he was doing was showing that he's not pure evil. Considering that Magneto and even Sinestro have shown good qualities I really don't see how that stretches belief that much.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Do I really have to mention Loki conquering and destroying Asgard, killing most of it's denizens, and then rebuilding it in his image? Please don't try the change of heart game with Loki. It's not an argument you'll win. His pretty much gone as far as a villain can go when it comes to crossing the line.

That doesn't prove anything. Look at the stuff that Magneto and Sinestro have done. Yes that proves he wants to conquer Asagard and rebuild it. Bendis's take on Loki is kinda like Sinestro ie in his own mind he thinks hes doing good.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Loki once defended Asgard against Surtur because if the fire demon won, the Universe would be lost. That's as good as Loki gets imo and even then, it was clear where his loyalties lied. He doesn't want to destroy everything. That's one of Loki's good qualities.

So you think that helps your argument? So the Void was going to destroy Asagard the whole of earth and possibly more makes you think its out of character for Loki to help the heroes. Not even sure if thats the only times hes helped.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I'm so goddamn tired of people who support Bendis making up crap for no other reason than to explain his disregard for continuity. Bendis doesn't give a shit what happens in other books or what has happened in the past. He's a schmuck. It's really as simple as that. Trying to spin this into Bendis getting inspiration from Norse Lore etc. is just....


Absolutely most people are familiar with Norse myths and sometimes they use it in Thor stories so clearly that couldn't happen with Bendis. Even then I'm kinda throwing that one out but it's certainly possible. Like I said twice now thats not my only argument villains reform or do good things all the time, what Bendis did wasn't that a big deal. I dunno man I would assume that Bendis is fairly well educated and has to be intelligent to be as succesful as he has been in his career. Do you have career? Hell it's not like you haven't said anything stupid before but I guess thats not possible.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

So what, we ignore his crappy writing in favor of the good?

No just acknowledge the good and bad. He

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Deadline
Myths. Most people are vaguely famaliar with the myths lets not pretend he doesn't know anything about them just because he did something you don't like.

Unfortunately, I don't give Bendis the benefit of the doubt like I do with most writers. He's a straight up lying schmuck who lacks knowledge of what I would have assumed to be common knowledge.

I wouldn't be surprised if he wrote his scripts under a rock or something.

I highly doubt Bendis has any knowledge of Norse myths to the point they influence his work. And even if he does -that is a huge if- how in the hell would that justify what he did with Loki? These are Marvel comic books. I don't give a shit if he read the myths everyday to work, he straight up did a huge 180 on a character that was heading in a very interesting direction. It's not the first time his done it, and it's not going to be the last. The fact that you're so hell bent on deluding yourself that this wasn't just Bendis being Bendis is extremely weird.

You are taking some huge leaps here to excuse what was just straight up bad characterization as I've ever seen it. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Deadline
I'm not sure what you mean by reform. I don't think Bendis was trying to turn Loki into a good guy, all he was doing was showing that he's not pure evil. Considering that Magneto and even Sinestro have shown good qualities I really don't see how that stretches belief that much.

I don't think you understand the difference between illustrating some kindness and willingly sacrificing his life for beings he'd have killed himself an issue ago while on his hands and knees in tears, praying to Odin for forgiveness. If

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH OF A LEAP THAT IS???????

It's like communicating with Carver. Loki was seeking redemption under Bendis.

Originally posted by Deadline
That doesn't prove anything. Look at the stuff that Magneto and Sinestro have done. Yes that proves he wants to conquer Asagard and rebuild it. Bendis's take on Loki is kinda like Sinestro ie in his own mind he thinks hes doing good.

Lmao what the heck? You just argued that when on the verge of destroying Asgard, he could not do it. I just proved you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about.

And stop comparing Loki to Magneto and Sinestro. Just because they are big time villains, that doesn't make them fit analogues. Loki doesn't fight for some higher cause or anything of the sort. Loki fights for Loki. His a self centered, sadistic bastard. He lost whatever kindness he had a while ago.

For a guy who spent the last few thousand years trying to destroy Asgard, for him to suddenly to do a 180 when in the previous appearance it was clear that this was still his goal is a huge and asinine leap.

Do you not understand that there wasn't any type of conflict? That Loki straight up acted like a hero?

I'm starting to think that if Bendis wrote it, you'd be okay with Superman killing a human being. Loki's believe in himself matches that type of greater good.

The more we discuss, the clearer it becomes that you haven't actually read much Thor comics.

Originally posted by Deadline
So you think that helps your argument? So the Void was going to destroy Asagard the whole of earth and possibly more makes you think its out of character for Loki to help the heroes. Not even sure if thats the only times hes helped.

That was me pointing out how one would handle Loki fighting for the side of good. The one noticeable time Loki fought alongside good, he did it only for himself. A noble self sacrifice would be something Loki would consider utterly idiotic. He loves himself too much.

Simonson understood the character, it's the reason why Loki said he fights for himself while Thor fought for Odin and Odin fought for Asgard. Loki only intervened because if Surtur succeeded, all of the Universe would go down in flames, including Loki.

The Void was an ugly crustacean with a god complex who was following Loki's plan. Much higher stakes and Simonson handled it much better.

Originally posted by Deadline
Absolutely most people are familiar with Norse myths and sometimes they use it in Thor stories so clearly that couldn't happen with Bendis. Even then I'm kinda throwing that one out but it's certainly possible. Like I said twice now thats not my only argument villains reform or do good things all the time, what Bendis did wasn't that a big deal. I dunno man I would assume that Bendis is fairly well educated and has to be intelligent to be as succesful as he has been in his career. Do you have career? Hell it's not like you haven't said anything stupid before but I guess thats not possible.

laughing out loud

That number of leaps and the benefit of the doubt you're giving Bendis is mind boggling. Is he the father of your child or something?

I honestly don't think you read Bendis' Avengers if you think this was some deep nod at Norse mythology. And even then, it should not affect Marvel's Loki to such a great extent.

Bendis is either extremely lazy, an ******* or an idiot. It's as simple as that. His lied on multiple occasions just so he can look smarter, pulls shit out of his ass out of nowhere, does not do his research etc.

I'm not infallible, not even close, but I can confidently say that based on what I've seen, I would pit my intelligence against his.

Hold on. It was not a big deal? I'm done with this shit.

If you're so certain this was in character for Loki, let's have a battle zone. We'll see how much sense Loki's sacrifice made.

Originally posted by Deadline
No just acknowledge the good and bad.

facepalm

What the f*ck have I done exactly?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Bendis is either extremely lazy, an ******* or an idiot. It's as simple as that. His lied on multiple occasions just so he can look smarter, pulls shit out of his ass out of nowhere, does not do his research etc.

Pretty much. He's done this ever since he got his hands on the Avengers franchise.

-Pr-
Originally posted by the ninjak
Pyms cool. He's like the Beast of the Avengers. Cept alot smarter.

He's a bit nuts too. I like that in heroes.

But Bendis has admitted that he hates him. And his fans. And yet, used Ultron in his first Mighty Avengers arc.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know seems to have handled alot of characters just fine, think people are blowing things out of proportion.

for every character he handles fine (and it's not many), there's a bunch he handles badly. really badly.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
Lol at the "backed by the writer" part. It was clearly stated and besides that it didn't need to. Not my fault you can't comprehend the Void's powers or abilities.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh really? I can post the scans if I need to. Everything I said happened on panel.

Quote where Bendis said Reynolds can return whenever he wanted.

Luckily for Sentry, Thor wasn't trying to kill him until the very end.

And Thor forced a giant lightning bolt down his throat. You should be very familiar with that feeling. Loki being able to escape through some other means doesn't take away the fact he can't just reform like the Void can when he wants to. eventually he'd find a way back much like any character. Loki's clever enough to find his way back but the Void has the power to will himsel fback to be under his own accord. Huge diff.

Loki can't completely reform on his own from complete annihilation whereas the Void can. End of story.

Your argument has and always will be pathetic. It's like Superman demanding WW to kill him and she does so. That doesn't mean she can when Superman's actively fighting back. Just because you love Thor don't let common sense, logic, and reason take a vacation for your response.

Void can reform from complete annihilation and he didn't because he lacked the desire to exist due to the guilt of his actions of the Bob personality coming through.

Void wrecks Thor when Void wants to. Void/Bob forces Thor to kill him when he wants to. All crystal clear and backed on panel by the writer.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
for every character he handles fine (and it's not many), there's a bunch he handles badly. really badly.

Ultimate Spider-Man
Daredevil

Drawing blanks....

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ultimate Spider-Man
Daredevil

Drawing blanks....

I'm even kind of meh on his Daredevil, but people seem to like it, so I'll give him that.

Luke Cage?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm even kind of meh on his Daredevil, but people seem to like it, so I'll give him that.

Luke Cage?

He turned Cage into a pseudo-herald lvl character, but I guess I can live with his characterization at times.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He turned Cage into a pseudo-herald lvl character, but I guess I can live with his characterization at times.

He did a not-shit Emma Frost, so he can have that too I guess.

JakeTheBank
Oh, yeah, Stormin' Norman. I'll give him props for Osborn.

tkitna
Bendis doesnt even rate in my opinion. Besides the fact that he cant write a bigger event to save his life, he handles characters without any remorse. He just does as he pleases regardless of history or continuity.

I loathe him the most for absolutly ruining the Sentry. Seriously, he had no idea how to write the character. One book he has the power of a God, the next he's running away, crying from some D-list villian. Add the way he just added powers and rewrote orginis, its no wonder the readers hated the character.

Stoic
Void/Sentry was certainly more powerful than Teth, he actually makes Teth look like a one trick pony. Was he above High Herald? In my opinion he certainly was. The very fact that he was able to reverse Owen Recce's (Molecule Mans) attempt of being nullified tells me all that I would need to know. Teth should not survive an encounter with Robert Reynolds at his best.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Stoic
Void/Sentry was certainly more powerful than Teth, he actually makes Teth look like a one trick pony. Was he above High Herald? In my opinion he certainly was. The very fact that he was able to reverse Owen Recce's (Molecule Mans) attempt of being nullified tells me all that I would need to know. Teth should not survive an encounter with Robert Reynolds at his best. thumb up

Omega Vision
Originally posted by tkitna
Bendis doesnt even rate in my opinion. Besides the fact that he cant write a bigger event to save his life, he handles characters without any remorse. He just does as he pleases regardless of history or continuity.

I loathe him the most for absolutly ruining the Sentry. Seriously, he had no idea how to write the character. One book he has the power of a God, the next he's running away, crying from some D-list villian. Add the way he just added powers and rewrote orginis, its no wonder the readers hated the character.
I liked Sentry so much more when his powers were all psionic. The idea of a psychosomatic superhero who creates his own nemesis is intriguing.

Some vaguely defined matter manipulator with a crybaby personality and an imaginary friend is...less compelling.

Mindset
Your face is less compelling.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Mindset
Your face is less compelling.
Which is why I'm a foot model.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which is why I'm a foot model.
laughing

Sin I AM
so whats the general concensus? Void is just below trans, and BA cant defeat him

Mindset
Sure.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sin I AM
so whats the general concensus? Void is just below trans, and BA cant defeat him How can BA beat him ? Punch him really hard, lol.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
How can BA beat him ? Punch him really hard, lol.

Worked for Thor. And Iron Man. And the helicarrier.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
Worked for Thor. And Iron Man. And the helicarrier. That didn't defeat him. He wanted to die. He also had Thor and the rest dead to rights before Loki saved them.

Helicarrier caused his Bob personality to come forth which in turn made guilt overtake him.

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by -Pr-
Worked for Thor. And Iron Man. And the helicarrier. Open and shut case.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
That didn't defeat him. He wanted to die. He also had Thor and the rest dead to rights before Loki saved them.

Helicarrier caused his Bob personality to come forth which in turn made guilt overtake him.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar41296_79.gif

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar41296_79.gif I'll find your jif.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
I'll find your jif.

That actually sounds worrying.

tkitna
Originally posted by -Pr-
Worked for Thor. And Iron Man. And the helicarrier.

Isnt it funny how a helicarrier effected a character that just brought down Asgard in its entirity? Good old Bendis.

-Pr-
Originally posted by tkitna
Isnt it funny how a helicarrier effected a character that just brought down Asgard in its entirity? Good old Bendis.

I was actually half-kidding, but yeah.

The man's lack of consistency even in his own work is staggering.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by -Pr-
I was actually half-kidding, but yeah.

The man's lack of consistency even in his own work is staggering.

Bendis is a horrible writer. He messes up everything mad I wish they would put him on the x-men.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Bendis is a horrible writer. He messes up everything mad I wish they would put him on the x-men.

You take that back. uhuh

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by -Pr-
You take that back. uhuh

big grin I would rather him mess them up than the Avengers

No, but seriously uhuh

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
big grin I would rather him mess them up than the Avengers

No, but seriously uhuh

He's already ruined enough X-Men for me, thanks. Look at House of M.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by -Pr-
He's already ruined enough X-Men for me, thanks. Look at House of M.

House of M would have made a good story if it was a What If book.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
House of M would have made a good story if it was a What If book.

And had decent characterisation for several people that he really got wrong.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by -Pr-
And had decent characterisation for several people that he really got wrong.

To be honest it dosen't seem like Bendis knows too much about the marvel universe...or he is writing it the way he wishes it was. Like I said it would have been good as a non-cannon stand alone story.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
To be honest it dosen't seem like Bendis knows too much about the marvel universe...or he is writing it the way he wishes it was. Like I said it would have been good as a non-cannon stand alone story.

Maybe. And I agree on the "way he wishes it was" point. he doesn't care about a character's history or consistency.

Omega Vision
Bendis seems like a fanfic writer who got lucky.

MrMind
helicarrier in the face shifty

Deadline
edit

Deadline
what the hell one last time.

Deadline
Ugh! Triple post.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Unfortunately, I don't give Bendis the benefit of the doubt like I do with most writers. He's a straight up lying schmuck who lacks knowledge of what I would have assumed to be common knowledge.

I wouldn't be surprised if he wrote his scripts under a rock or something.

You might be right but it's not like you haven't said retarded shit before.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I highly doubt Bendis has any knowledge of Norse myths to the point they influence his work. And even if he does -that is a huge if- how in the hell would that justify what he did with Loki? These are Marvel comic books. I don't give a shit if he read the myths everyday to work, he straight up did a huge 180 on a character that was heading in a very interesting direction. It's not the first time his done it, and it's not going to be the last. The fact that you're so hell bent on deluding yourself that this wasn't just Bendis being Bendis is extremely weird.

You are taking some huge leaps here to excuse what was just straight up bad characterization as I've ever seen it. Nothing more.


You're not really in a position to call anybody stupid you have a tendency to look down on people just for having a difference of opinion. In particular I remember that Ize9 made a great case for Mjolinor increasing Thors combat speed as usual you started talking to him like he was an idiot.

Not making huge leaps of faith, stop twisting my words. I'm assuming that Bendis is an average person and like I've said several times the Norse lore thing isn't my main argument.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I don't think you understand the difference between illustrating some kindness and willingly sacrificing his life for beings he'd have killed himself an issue ago while on his hands and knees in tears, praying to Odin for forgiveness. If

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH OF A LEAP THAT IS???????

It's like communicating with Carver. Loki was seeking redemption under Bendis.


I think I already told you I understand that but to me it's not that big a deal, but of course you think my reasons are stupid because they differ from your opinion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Lmao what the heck? You just argued that when on the verge of destroying Asgard, he could not do it. I just proved you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about. .

Um no you missed the point. Loki destroyed Asagard but rebuilt it, the point I'm making is he doesn't want it destroyed he wants to rule it. He can't rule Asagard if theres nothing to build. Bendis did a Sinestro on him ie he thinks hes good in his own mind

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And stop comparing Loki to Magneto and Sinestro. Just because they are big time villains, that doesn't make them fit analogues. Loki doesn't fight for some higher cause or anything of the sort. Loki fights for Loki. His a self centered, sadistic bastard. He lost whatever kindness he had a while ago.

For a guy who spent the last few thousand years trying to destroy Asgard, for him to suddenly to do a 180 when in the previous appearance it was clear that this was still his goal is a huge and asinine leap.

No theres no reason why I can't make a comparison besides from the fact in you're purely subjective opinion its a bad comparison. I would agree to an extent with Magneto but you can certainly argue that Sinestro is ireedemable as well. The guy was responsible for making Hal Jordan a multiversal threat and has worked alongside a child mass murderer, hell didn't he nearly wipe an entire alien race out? Could be wrong but Sinestro seems even worse.

Just because hes been doing it for 1000s of years doesnt make him worse than Sinestro, in comics time doesn't always make a difference.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Do you not understand that there wasn't any type of conflict? That Loki straight up acted like a hero?

I'm starting to think that if Bendis wrote it, you'd be okay with Superman killing a human being. Loki's believe in himself matches that type of greater good.

The more we discuss, the clearer it becomes that you haven't actually read much Thor comics.


Sorry I've read loads of Thor comics. No I understand that but you could argue that Sinestro is actually worse and nobody gives a shit about him being a white lantern. Bendis just tried a new spin on the character. I thought the hands on his knees thing was going overboard but him siding with the heroes was in character.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

That was me pointing out how one would handle Loki fighting for the side of good. The one noticeable time Loki fought alongside good, he did it only for himself. A noble self sacrifice would be something Loki would consider utterly idiotic. He loves himself too much.

Simonson understood the character, it's the reason why Loki said he fights for himself while Thor fought for Odin and Odin fought for Asgard. Loki only intervened because if Surtur succeeded, all of the Universe would go down in flames, including Loki.

The Void was an ugly crustacean with a god complex who was following Loki's plan. Much higher stakes and Simonson handled it much better.



laughing out loud

That number of leaps and the benefit of the doubt you're giving Bendis is mind boggling. Is he the father of your child or something?

I honestly don't think you read Bendis' Avengers if you think this was some deep nod at Norse mythology. And even then, it should not affect Marvel's Loki to such a great extent.

Bendis is either extremely lazy, an ******* or an idiot. It's as simple as that. His lied on multiple occasions just so he can look smarter, pulls shit out of his ass out of nowhere, does not do his research etc.

I'm not infallible, not even close, but I can confidently say that based on what I've seen, I would pit my intelligence against his.

Hold on. It was not a big deal? I'm done with this shit.

If you're so certain this was in character for Loki, let's have a battle zone. We'll see how much sense Loki's sacrifice made.



facepalm

What the f*ck have I done exactly?

Dunno about that everybody has read Norse myths before and Bendis seems like an average person. My main argument is that villains can reform. Maybe he does lie but I can think of at least one example were it seemed that somebody was taking what he said out of context.

I dunno people say they're not infallible but whenever you point something out to them they always make excuses. This argument you made seems pretty stupid and yet again you're talking down to the other person.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Force multiplier?

Stop speculating. Mjolnir doesn't even really hit any of the Kronan's in the original fight. He spun it around in a circle and it kept them at bay.

Get real world physics out of here. The gap between Thor's fists and a non amped Mjolnir blow is minimal if there at all. Mjolnir's a pretty shitty melee weapon all things considered.

Originally posted by ctnn1
Uh: http://s980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/?action=view&current=IncredibleHulks620028.jpg

Uh, so you're saying that an enchanted weapon made of a material that is far, far more dense than the bones of a hand, far, far heavier, is not going to add to the power of Thors blows? Ok, I do believe this conversation is over if that's what you believe. Even in comics, certain ground rules apply Rage.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I saw Thor strike one of Korg's brothers and kill him. I did not see Thor strike Korg.

Suspension of disbelief. It's a comic. You don't get to attach real world physics just because it makes your man look better. The difference between a normal punch, and someone swinging is sledge hammer is pretty large in real life. When it comes to Thor and Mjolnir, the difference is no where that big if it's there at all.

Lee wrote the biggest difference between Mjolnir blows and Thor punches on average I'd wager, but it was still nowhere near as large as a normal man/sledgehammer comparison.

Maybe I'm wrong but thats one of the most stupidest things I've heard on this forum, but I'm guessing you're going to start making excuses.

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