Delph's League of Champions, Season 2.1 Discussion Thread

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illadelph12
I'm thinking of (again) having Season 2 of my League later this year (drafts in late August to late September). Given that it's still May that gives plenty of time for discussion on tweaks to the rules, participants, salary cap negotiations, character level cap (thinking low herald), etc.

Anyway, for veterans of Season 1, please chime in if you still have interest. New comers as well. Season 2 Will have a 11 Week schedule. 8 regular season matches, 3 rounds of playoffs (Quarter, Semi, Finals). I also want to introduce the "home court" stipulation where a team will host 4 home matches at their chosen home battlefield and also have 4 away matches. I think it will add another element of strategy to the mix.

Anyway, comments, etc.

Charlotte DeBel
I'm having my vacation in August... lots of free time to try this. In fact, your tourney was my all-time favourite out of those I've competed in.

inimalist
I'm down!

psycho gundam
last round i jumped the gun and lost, now i know better.

i'm definitely in

Scoobless
This is the crazy tourney where you re-draft your team after every match, right?

stick out tongue

Charlotte DeBel
The idea about drafting constant hometurf for all the regular season is fun. Some funny additions to that:
1. Drafting the "goalkeeper" character together with the turf, with the cost of turf being defined by the cost of goalkeeper (i.e. Miami City with pre-World's End Jack Hawksmoor as your "goalee" will cost you 40 points, Sahara+Sandman = 30 points) etc. You are not allowed to sell the goalkeeper character as he comes with the battlefield. However, you don't have to field him in any match - the goalie is a must in the team's home matches and is the one character you are buying for the whole season.
You may also go for more low-cost variant than battlefield manipulating character, incorporating your prep area and combat area (Batman+Gotham City), if you decide to use your prep time for putting traps across the city. However, 30 minutes of prep time in low herald tourney can be used for more things than booby trapping your territory hoping the opponent steps in it.
The proposed salary cap from last time was 150 points to differentiate from 125 in the Rd.1. However, in ideal world I think it shall be 160 to still allow "four characters with highest salary" on a team scheme (160=40*4, 120=30*4).
40 pts = low heralds
30 pts = high metas
25 pts = mid metas
20 pts = low metas
15 pts = high street
10 pts = mid street
5 pts = low street

I'd say 10 appearances validity cap is still nice.

illadelph12
Originally posted by Scoobless
This is the crazy tourney where you re-draft your team after every match, right?

stick out tongue

You have the option to change your roster. It's not required.

What do you guys think of Charlotte's idea about the cap?

illadelph12
League of Champions: Season Two - General Rules and Specifications

This is the discussion thread for the upcoming Season Two of the League of Champions Battle League. This league will be conducted much in the same manner as a fantasy sports league (most analogous to Fantasy Football). Below is an overview of the rules for the upcoming competition (subject to revision during the discussion process). Combat will not begin until September (tentatively). Drafts will begin on Saturday, August 13th (tentatively):


Roster's and Drafting:

1. Each participant/team will be allowed to draft as many characters as they can afford within the Salary Cap. The salary cap for Season Two is 150 Points. The tier based salary table is as follows:

150 Salary Cap

Low Herald - 40 points

High Meta - 30 points

Mid Meta - 25 points

Low Meta - 20 points

High Street - 15 points

Mid Street - 10 points

Low Street - 5 points

2. Amalgamation is allowed. You can amalgamate up to 4 characters at a penalty to your allotted prep time.

3. With your roster you must field a 3 (three) character team, whether they be amalgamated or individuals.

4. No amalgamated character can be a combination of more than 4 (four) individual characters. You must field 3 (three) combatants at all times.

5. You are allowed, and encouraged to, reconfigure your amalgamations into any combination you wish for each battle. However, you can not reconfigure your amalgams during combat.

6. In the interest of instituting a strategic element, the configurations that each team will be using in the battle will not be known until the opening combat comments are posted in the battle. You'll know your opponents roster, but you will not know which characters the team you are facing will be fielding until battle commences.

7. Drafting: In Round One drafting will be conducted in a first come, first served basis. Each subsequent round of the draft will be the reverse picking order of the first round (first pick in rd. one getting last pick in round 2, alternating in rd. 3, and so on). Each participant will be able to post 2 draft choices per round (salary cap permitting). Once you've spent your salary cap balance and your roster has been assembled you must wait until after opening day to perform any additional roster adjustments via trades and free agency.

8. Like in Fantasy Sports leagues you will be allowed to trade characters with other participants. Trades will take effect the following Sunday after the trade was proposed and accepted. You will also be able to waive team characters and pick up "free agents" (undrafted characters) at any time you wish. All trades and waivers/signings must be submitted to a league Commissioner to be posted in the League Standings and Transactions thread. The weekly trade/waiver deadline will be on Wednesdays at 3:00pm .


League Combat Rules:

1. This will be a Super Skrull/Low Herald Tier Tournament. The characters do not need to be less powerful than Super Skrull himself, simply in the same power class. There is no cap on how powerful your amalgamation can be. The limits are simply on the individual members of your roster prior to amalgamation.

2. No offensive matter manipulation. Only the elements of the battlefield can be altered.

3. No time manipulation powers or technology.

4. No one-hit kill (OHK) abilities (example, Omega Red's "Death Factor", Rogue's soul/life-force absorption, dismemberment via teleportation of limbs/objects into vitals, etc.).

5. No access to the battlefield prior to the beginning of combat. Teams will begin combat .5 kilometers away from each others' position.

6. Prep: Prep is allowed. You get 8 (eight) minutes of prep per match at a member of your team's historical base of operations. Characters that are members of teams (JLA, Stormwatch, Avengers, etc) will be able to utilize the team base of operations unless the character is also a solo hero and has their own personal base of operations (i.e. Batman gets the Bat-cave as his base even though as a member of the JLA he has access to the Watchtower). For characters that are members of a team you will not have access to any of their teammates equipment or arsenal, only the prep host's resources. The only resource available to you other than the prep host's arsenal will be the computer database present at the base. You get the character's historic primary base of operations and access to the prep host's equipment only. No exceptions and no loopholes. The default prep area is the Old Trafford Stadium in Manchester, England.

Addendum/Clarification (#1): Prep areas can be used as many times as you wish.

Addendum/Clarification (#2): Battle Information: Combatants will be given general public information on their opponents (name, basic overview of powers (simple things like "Iceman controls cold" "Strong Man is Strong", or "Storm controls weather", etc), place of origin. More indepth information on your opponents can be gained via access of databases at prep area (assuming you prepped in an opponents native universe and their info is available, i.e., opponent is Joker, you have Batman on your roster) or the knowledge that your characters would have of the opposition (if they are allies, enemies, etc).

Addendum/Clarification (#3): The purpose of this rule was so that if you were to have a character on your roster that is a member of a team you could only use their own character specific equipment (to eliminate, for example, someone drafting an Avenger and then claiming access to Mjolnir or the Ebony Blade or Ironman's armor, etc).

However, there are instances where some equipment is standard issue for every member of a team (for example, Legion of Superheroes Flight rings as standard issue equipment for all Legionnaires, Team communicators are standard issue for just about every team that exists, standard issue guns for a SHIELD, AIM, or GI Joe operative, etc), or some equipment is accessible to every member of a team without any restrictions (for example, The Danger Room for X-Men, a Quinjet for all Avengers).

For those particular instances, when it's not an actual character specific implement, but equipment that is standard issue ordinance for every member of a team, or accessible to every member of a team without any imposed restrictions, the equipment in question would fall under standard equipment for all characters that are members of that team and be accessible.

7. Tech: Creation of tech is allowed during prep. However, high end offensive weaponry or power neutralizers can not be brought from prep to the battlefield. No offensive implement with a greater payload than an independently powered, non-enhanced current Ironman armor is allowed. The technology can be used to amplify and enhance your characters during prep. Defensive technological implements (psi blockers, forcefield generators, armor) will be allowed, as well as communications devices and personal teleporters/means of transportation.

8. Amalgamation: The amalgamation process will take place during prep and will utilize a portion of your prep time as follows:

2 character amalgam: 3 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4.5 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 6 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

Demalgamation is instantaneous. You can amalgamate a character then demalgamate them at will during prep. Amalgamations can take place at any point in time during prep, and all characters do not need to amalgamate at the same time. This is purely at the participants discretion.

9. Experience is the only thing that carries over from battle to battle. You can not bring any implement that you acquired during prep or during the battle to the subsequent rounds. All you'll have is your memories/experiences/knowledge from the previous battle. No exceptions. No loopholes.

10. Duplication/Self Replication: The ability to create copies of yourself (i.e. Multiple Man/Dupli-Kate/Animal Man's ability to replicate themselves) is officially banned (per majority vote).

11. No CIS.

12. Mind Control and Telepathy: Mind control of your opponent, be it by any means (telepathy, hypnosis, possession) is banned. Offensive telepathic assault is allowed.

13. Each poster/team is allowed 10 combat posts plus 4 scan only posts (14 posts total each). Scan only posts are used to post evidence only, not arguments.

14. Battle Field Removal: Battle Field Removal (BFR; removing your opponent from the battlefield via teleportation, bannishing, or exertion of force) is banned.

Addendum/Clarification: Teams are confined to the surface area and airspace of the battlefield within the planets atmosphere. Abilities which require a character to momentarily travel extradimensionally (Nightcrawler's teleportation, Spot's teleportation, etc.), and powers which allow a character to become momentarily out of phase/intangible (Martian intangibility/mass shunt, etc) are allowed. Voluntarily leaving the battlefield, indefinitely or otherwise, is officially banned per executive decision.

15. Power Copying: The ability to copy the powers of other characters (i.e. Mimic/Duplicate Boy/Synch) is officially banned (per majority vote).

16.Immortality and Healing Factors: Immortality (Deadpool, Mr. Immortal, etc.) is banned (per majority vote). Healing factors are allowed.

17. Speed Cap: There is a combat speed cap of 3.5 C.

Addendum/Clarification: Speed cap is applicable for combat only. Character can be faster by powerset, but will be limited to cap in combat.

tbc in next post...

illadelph12
continue from previous post...

18. Independent Constructs: Independently acting constructs are officially banned (per majority vote).

19. Precognition/Clairvoyance: Precog and clairvoyance are banned per executive order. Spider-sense like/combat awareness abilities are perfectly legal.

20. Probability Alteration/Luck Powers: Probability Alteration powers (a la Longshot, Shamrock, etc) are banned per executive order.

21. Size Alteration/Shrinking Powers: The ability to shrink to a subatomic state (i.e. The Atom) is banned per executive order. The diminutive size cap is 2 cms.

Scheduling/Battle Format:

Each participant will possibly face every other participant at least once during the regular season.

Regular Season: Matches will begin on a Monday and end on Thursday. Each match will have 3 judges, and each judge vote is worth a point. The number of points accumulated during the regular season will determine seeding in the playoffs. Any ties will be resolved via the tiebreaker (which team defeated the other in their match). The top 4 participants will advance to the Semifinal Playoff Round.

Semi-Finals: Each match will have 5 judges, the 1st Seed will face the 4th Seed and the 2nd Seed will face the 3rd seed. Also, the two losing teams in this round will advance to a Bronze Metal Match in the Finals.

Finals: Each match will have 5 judges.

Proposals we have so far are:

-Eliminate prep outright.
-Ban use of Speedforce (not superspeed, just speed/time manip.)
-Cap tech at Engineer level.
-Allow BFR with time limit.
-Time Travel during prep.

*Note:

These rules are not set in stone. This is a democratic league. Proposals and votes on rules and changes are encouraged.

Existere
Guessing your first 'Low Meta' was meant to read 'Low Herald'

illadelph12
Dammit...

*edit

Fixed. Thanks Smurph.

JakeTheBank
Damn, this looks cool, Delph.

Charlotte DeBel
1. BS for brawl-lovers. "Strategic genius and brilliant tactical leaders" characters won't benefit from it in any way as the tactical prowess of the team in CIS-less tournament depends on the skill of the debater and not on one of the characters (Cyclops, Cap America etc).
2. I'd say... allow time manip but tie it to the speed cap - no time travel, slowing/accelerating time is allowed only to the extent that makes the character to move on relative speed equivalent to tourney cap speed. Ban speed stealing thing, though... relatively accelerating yourself is fair game, offensive time manip shall be treated the same as offensive matter manip.
3. Engineer is the character with "tech as her powers", I made that proposal back then to eliminate Ultimate Cosmic Cubes, Ultimate Nullifiers, Infinity Gems, Hell Crowns etc - the tech acquired via prep shall only viable do as much damage as decent low herald character can.
4. Don't think that's a good idea. Though may work if the battlefield is city-sized and you knock the opponent out of the city borders.
5. I'd say ban time travel.

============
I've proposed the idea of "goalkeeper" character along with home battlefield. That may allow to circumvent " no access to the battlefield prior to combat", however a)you may interact with the battlefield only to the degree your "goalkeeper" character can; b)you can do that only if your prep location and your home arena are located in the same place.

illadelph12
The use of time manipulation to increase speed is an interesting approach. What do the rest of you think of Charlotte's idea (as well as the 'goalkeeper' idea regarding home court choice)?

Charlotte DeBel
My bad with earlier post detailing the whole goalkeeping thing. I thought it was 30 minutes and not 8 embarrasment

illadelph12
lol, no worries Charlotte. It is an interesting concept though.

As far as choosing a battlefield, I think what we'll do is, during drafts, a battlefield can be chosen in any round like you would draft a character. So, for example (as shown below), since you can draft up to 2 characters per round, the draft of your battlefield would be paired with the draft of a character pick to afford you your two picks per round per drafting rule:

Picks:
Namor - - 40 pts.
Pacific Ocean - - Homefield

Charlotte DeBel
While we're at that, maybe let's reaffirm the "no summons" rule to avoid combos like "Magik (20/25 pts depending whether it's Illyana or Amanda)+Limbo = sending hordes of demons to beat one's poor opponent".

illadelph12
I think summoning is banned outright, actually (included in the "independently acting constructs" rule).

Scoobless
One thing that got a little rediculous last time was carrying info/experience from match to match. I could have done without that ... even though Leo and I ended up using it to "win" the tourny, it was such a pain in the ass, even trying to remember what info we had acquired was bad enough, then we had to remember what Digi and others had stolen from other teams in previous matches.

illadelph12
Anyone else against experience carrying forward? Or maybe, more specifically, we should define what exactly counts as 'experience' that carries forward.

If I remember correctly (it's been a while so this is probably an incomplete recap) what caused the biggest conflict was Digi's use of Death's Head II's assimilation to absorb two members of the Marvel Family's souls (which was stored as information) and basically trying to use that as a means of 'Shazam-ing' Death's Head II into a Minion/Captain Marvel hybrid as his argument was that the memories/experiences of Mary and Freddy inside of Minion were enough to summon the lightning, and I ruled that a 'soul' was, sans theological romanticism, simply a collection of information (memories, experiences, etc) which were legal to acquire per rule.

Digi
Originally posted by illadelph12
You have the option to change your roster. It's not required.

Required becomes relative in such a format. Giving your opponents a chance to adapt while you do nothing is likely a quick way to an early exit. For anyone serious about winning, changes would be mandatory.

That said, this tournament was hilarious and awesome when you first ran it. I never thought the early stoppages were your fault, and had a lot of fun in them.

I'd consider joining but will likely just judge. Including low heralds makes it a fair amount less enticing to me. Good luck though.

illadelph12
Yeah, for some reason my tournaments do exceptionally well in the regular rounds, but when we get down to the last couple weeks (usually playoffs or finals), judges and competitors disappear or have other obligations and momentum dies. Maybe it's the time of year I've normally ran them. I'd like to get it done before the major holidays at year end. I'm thinking September to Mid November as the run time (11 weeks would span about that long).

You always made a good showing in my tourneys, Digi. Even in the tourney I had on HoZ (which I wish we'd gotten a chance to complete. That was a good one). Hell, you even revolutionized OPs with the first (and only ever) audio OP in board history. That was great. I'm hoping someone makes a video OP one day. That'd be sick.

You should compete. You were one of the stronger competitors in Season 1. Didn't you finish in 3rd after leading the pack almost all season long?

Charlotte DeBel
Technically the match determining 3rd and 4th place was never held so we can't say who has the bronze in the Season 1 - me or Digi.

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by illadelph12
Anyone else against experience carrying forward? Or maybe, more specifically, we should define what exactly counts as 'experience' that carries forward.

If I remember correctly (it's been a while so this is probably an incomplete recap) what caused the biggest conflict was Digi's use of Death's Head II's assimilation to absorb two members of the Marvel Family's souls (which was stored as information) and basically trying to use that as a means of 'Shazam-ing' Death's Head II into a Minion/Captain Marvel hybrid as his argument was that the memories/experiences of Mary and Freddy inside of Minion were enough to summon the lightning, and I ruled that a 'soul' was, sans theological romanticism, simply a collection of information (memories, experiences, etc) which were legal to acquire per rule.
Simply define "experience" as something that can be obtained by every viable means of copying (TP, assimilation, photographic memory etc) as is skills or maybe memories. No Legion-style personality copying - only skills and knowledge can be carried forward. No spiritual connections, no results of molecular body scans that can be used as a loophole in "no copying powers" rule - Minion and Kane, I look at yousmile

illadelph12
Hmm...

What do the rest of you think?

Also, how about data (like downloading weapon specs)?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by illadelph12
Anyone else against experience carrying forward? Or maybe, more specifically, we should define what exactly counts as 'experience' that carries forward.

If I remember correctly (it's been a while so this is probably an incomplete recap) what caused the biggest conflict was Digi's use of Death's Head II's assimilation to absorb two members of the Marvel Family's souls (which was stored as information) and basically trying to use that as a means of 'Shazam-ing' Death's Head II into a Minion/Captain Marvel hybrid as his argument was that the memories/experiences of Mary and Freddy inside of Minion were enough to summon the lightning, and I ruled that a 'soul' was, sans theological romanticism, simply a collection of information (memories, experiences, etc) which were legal to acquire per rule.
Sounds pretty shaky to me.

I don't think merely having their experiences would translate to retaining their connection to the ROE/Shazam.

illadelph12
Yeah, I said as much at the time. I allowed the memory/soul assimilation, but left whether it would equate to Digi's proposed results open to the interpretation of the judges (and opponents) themselves. It was Digi's case to prove.

Digi
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Sounds pretty shaky to me.

I don't think merely having their experiences would translate to retaining their connection to the ROE/Shazam.

Well. of course it sounds shaky when you're just reading the synopsis. I had literally dozens of scans either suggesting or outright proving that what he copied into himself was more than simply experiences. Hell, someone performs a mystical exorcism on him to remove one of the beings he had assimilated. Exorcisms can't be performed on synapses.

It was actually a bit of a cluster**** though because of delph's ruling. Not that it was his fault, but in saying that a soul was stripped of any theological meaning and was just memories and information, it contradicted the idea that a soul is some "otherness" that the judges needed to believe the whole Marvel transformation and also contradicted some of the scans I was using. I had some judges with me, others against me, and got an unlucky draw in the playoffs with no judges in a particular match that had signed off on the idea earlier in the tourney.

illadelph12
I really wish we'd finished that tourney properly. It was really good. Deserved a proper ending rather than a default win by no show. The other tourney with the interactive battlefields as well. There were some really interesting strategies in that one. King Kandy's meteor strike plan was genius.

illadelph12
Also, given issues with poster participation as of late, I think this tourney will be singles rather than teams of posters. That way we can get a larger field of combatants. With teams the load can be shared, but then we wind up with only 4-5 teams competing. I want at least 8 different combatants.

Newjak
Good luck with this Delph

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