Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Classic Strange is, imo the best hero telepath in comics. His natural tp is a 9 out of 10, his magic tp is 10 outta 10 and his artifact amplified tp is a 20 outta 10. He gets his eye as always, but it's already on his forehead. Anyways, how far does he get and why? 1. Jean Grey wo PF 2. Emma Frost. 3. Prof x. 4. Moondragon 5. Shadow king. 6. Martian Manhunter 7. Grodd 9. Apocalypes. 10. Shaman Nate 11 Moondragon wmind gem. 12. Godlike Cable. 13. Legion. 14. Umar 15. Thanos Remember, PURE telepathy battle. So, who does he beat and who does he get beaten by? ONLY USE PROOF Of superior tp , not conjecture or status i.e Thanos is written as blah blah so he wins.

Originally posted by long pig
Classic Strange is, imo the best hero telepath in comics. His natural tp is a 9 out of 10, his magic tp is 10 outta 10 and his artifact amplified tp is a 20 outta 10. He gets his eye as always, but it's already on his forehead. Anyways, how far does he get and why? 1. Jean Grey wo PF 2. Emma Frost. 3. Prof x. 4. Moondragon 5. Shadow king. 6. Martian Manhunter 7. Grodd 9. Apocalypes. 10. Shaman Nate 11 Moondragon wmind gem. 12. Godlike Cable. 13. Legion. 14. Umar 15. Thanos Remember, PURE telepathy battle. So, who does he beat and who does he get beaten by? ONLY USE PROOF Of superior tp , not conjecture or status i.e Thanos is written as blah blah so he wins.

I notice you left out the best of the best.

Who's your best of the best?

I actually think he can beat them all.

Originally posted by long pig
Who's your best of the best?

The guy who already beat Strange with TP: Xemnu.

I'm putting together a respect thread for him. It's not done yet, but he has what are probably the most consistently high telepathy feats in Marvel -- he's put telepathy blocks on Strange to prevent him from using his powers, hypnotized the entire planet earth, mindblasted she-hulk (who has resisted a mental assault from moondragon), taken over Rulk, Wonderman, and tons of other folks. Once he was in a tp fight with Moondragon, who tried to kick him out of her head, failed, and got punched for her effort. The only person who has ever resisted him is the savage hulk, and even the hulk got taken down by one of his mindblasts once.

Originally posted by long pig
I actually think he can beat them all.


Strange is a TP monster, but there are some wildcards on that list. Thanos has mad TP feats, and while Xavier is very uneven, in a comic there is always a chance he can win. Nate is also up there. Really, with TP hierarchy is much harder to figure out than with other powers.

Xemnu didn't defeat Strange with TP. What are you talking about? He mentally controlled a mob of humans to attack Strange, and Strange refused to fight back so he let them somehow knock him out. (this should tell you all you need to know about the terrible writing. The fact Doc has taken full on blasts from Galactus without being ko'd, but a normal guy ko's him? bs) And WHILE STRANGE WAS UNCONSCIOUS he implanted a mental block on him To stop him from using magic. Strange went on to break hulk free from his mental possession. So, no. Strange didn't lose a tp battle with him. Not even close.

Originally posted by long pig
Xemnu didn't defeat Strange with TP. What are you talking about? He mentally controlled a mob of humans to attack Strange, and Strange refused to fight back so he let them somehow knock him out. (this should tell you all you need to know about the terrible writing. The fact Doc has taken full on blasts from Galactus without being ko'd, but a normal guy ko's him? bs) And WHILE STRANGE WAS UNCONSCIOUS he implanted a mental block on him To stop him from using magic. Strange went on to break hulk free from his mental possession. So, no. Strange didn't lose a tp battle with him. Not even close.

Just looked. You're right -- he put the blocks on while Strange was unconscious; still an impressive feat. And Xemnu has enough of them that I would rate him above Strange -- he also took Strange out of the fight with a mento-blast in Marvel Feature #3. But dude, don't be down on the writing in old comics -- they are the best! A correction, though: Strange lost because Xemnu repelled his magic blast, and in the meantime that mob got Strange. Ye olde thyme comic characters were often uneven, and Strange moreso than most -- don't get your panties all in a bunch cause the dude got knocked out.

I loved old school Defenders. Always funny that power cosmic and magic are somehow perfect matches to blend together. those comics were full of wtfness.

But, you're right. Considering, that's a huge feather in his cap. It was the ONLY time Strange has ever been messed with mentally. Noone has ever gotten close to matching Strange's tp, much less beat him with it. He literally has the greatest tp offense in marvel and is absolutely the GOAT at tp defense. No one has ever done lack. Even skyfathers are dominated mentall by him. i.e Dorm, umar, galactus, EVERYONE....Strange even beat a mind gem powered Moondragon. i think this is a good fight. So bump. And you all should respond

I SAID everyone should respond. Where are the fanboys when ya need em? What are Thanos's best tp feats?

Originally posted by long pig
I loved old school Defenders. Always funny that power cosmic and magic are somehow perfect matches to blend together. those comics were full of wtfness.

Yeah, those comics were awesome.

Originally posted by long pig
I SAID everyone should respond. Where are the fanboys when ya need em? What are Thanos's best tp feats?

You need to put Thanos in the thread-title -- then they'll show up!

yeah. I may just make a new thread like that. Or you could do it. Thanos was the real reason for the thread.

Originally posted by long pig
I SAID everyone should respond. Where are the fanboys when ya need em? What are Thanos's best tp feats? Thanos TP feats include

Beating Moondragon in a mind war
Crushing Draxs mind with a mind sync warp
Reading Gamaors thought whilst she was in the Magus alternat universe/timeline
Lobotamizing Pip the Troll
Mind controlling Fallen one
Implanting false images into Fallen Ones mind
Hurting The Maker from a good distance away with a simple mind attack
Destroying the Makers mind
Almost mind raping a well nourished Galactus(Moondragon only created the mental plane Thanos and Galactuse met on)
It took Cosmo Moondragon and Mantis to TP subdue him whilst he was very weak, he later broke out of their PSI clamps
Easily laughed/shrugged off at TP attack from MoonDragon

There a few more TP feats

Hmmm. Me thinks I underestimated Thanos's psi feats. They are impressive.Although I could tear a few down, but still. I still think Doc could take him or at least stalemate him.

strange isn't beating xavier in a pure tp battle.

@ Long Pig despite my hatred for you I also feel it would a stalemate, which feats would you TRY to tear down?

Originally posted by wildernesss
strange isn't beating xavier in a pure tp battle. Strange would eat Xavier alive in a tp fight. He'd need cerebro just to hang in there with him.

The only one I could caste doubt on is the Fallen One feat. Mainly because, just like his blitzing ability, he doesn't have enough appearances to be able to qualify his level. Especially mentally. The Maker feat is iffy, too. Maker was mentally f'd up anyway, so who knows how fragile the mind was. The other feats are insane. And hate isn't the correct word when I think of you........a worthy adversary who's a total, absolute dick sometimes.

Lol touche LP. The Makers madness had passed by the time Thanos faced her(confirmed by Star Lord,Gladiator and the Cleric) and when Oracle of the Shiar Shut down the Maker it drove Oracle insane from just being near Maker

Originally posted by long pig
Strange would eat Xavier alive in a tp fight. He'd need cerebro just to hang in there with him.


IMHO, If this is a strict TP battle, then xavier could shut strange's mind off in a instant....no struggle, no drama. just instantaneous mind wipe. this is the guy who mentally defeated Dark Phoenix. without magic & all the rest strange's mind is not stronger than xavier's.

Uatu and The High Evolutionary are also top of the food chain telepaths.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Lol touche LP. The Makers madness had passed by the time Thanos faced her(confirmed by Star Lord,Gladiator and the Cleric) and when Oracle of the Shiar Shut down the Maker it drove Oracle insane from just being near Maker

Only thing with destroying the Maker's mind was that that wasn't TP, Thanos shot an energy blast through her head and lobotomised her.

Although he did hurt her earlier in the issue with a telepathic message...

I honestly think Shadow King would give him trouble, at the very least he should be higher on the list

I thought it was a energy shot a first but if you look Thanos charges both eyes with energy but only fires a single shot, I believe it was a tp blast

Originally posted by Nihilist
I thought it was a energy shot a first but if you look Thanos charges both eyes with energy but only fires a single shot, I believe it was a tp blast

Except that you see the smoking hole on Maker's forehead, and on the next page as she falls down you see Thanos' hand outstretched glowing with energy as if he just fired a blast from that hand.

Also I would assume a TP blast wouldn't leave physical damage, but there clearly is some to the Maker...

Cassandra Nova could give Strange a run with strictly TP only taken into consideration, imo.

No point in posting if beats Moon Dragon w/mind gem since he already did.

Strange beats:
Jean
Shadow King
Emma
Xavier
Martian Manhunter
Moondragon w/mind gem


Its fiercely debatable if he can beat:
Cable /no T.O. Virus
Shaman X-Man
Cassandra Nova
Legion
Thanos

We can really cant gauge Apocalypse, since his TP are far to low, and scattered. And it was recently revealed that he counts on celestial tech, to block Telepathic assault.

Originally posted by "Id"
No point in posting if beats Moon Dragon w/mind gem since he already did.

Strange beats:
Jean
Shadow King
Emma
Xavier
Martian Manhunter
Moondragon w/mind gem


Its fiercely debatable if he can beat:
Cable /no T.O. Virus
Shaman X-Man
Cassandra Nova
Legion
Thanos

We can really cant gauge Apocalypse, since his TP are far to low, and scattered. And it was recently revealed that he counts on celestial tech, to block Telepathic assault.

...

I wouldn't put Nova above Shadow King...

Strange beats most and could beat anybody on the list considering his feats. I would say he stalemates with a few to be fair but beats most of them. By the way.. the only one I would add to the list Nihi made is blocking xavier and moondragon from his mind with ease.

Originally posted by inimalist
...

I wouldn't put Nova above Shadow King...
Oh I strongly disagree.

The Shadow King looses to Xavier. Granted a hard fought match, but loose none the less. Cassandra on the other hand is Xavier superior, accessing the full spectrum of the professors mutagenic ability. Cassie not only steam rolled through Xavier w/cerebra. She made a mockery of Jean tapping into the phoenix force.

Cassandra is definitely higher than the Shadow King. But to each its own.

Originally posted by "Id"
Oh I strongly disagree.

The Shadow King looses to Xavier. Granted a hard fought match, but loose none the less. Cassandra on the other hand is Xavier superior, accessing the full spectrum of the professors mutagenic ability. Cassie not only steam rolled through Xavier w/cerebra. She made a mockery of Jean tapping into the phoenix force.

Cassandra is definitely higher than the Shadow King. But to each its own.

iirc Xavier eventually beat Nova, and SK has been shown as Xavier's superior on a couple of occasions

But Nova easily beat Xavier while he was using cerebra.

It has been awhile, but I don't remember him beating her in a telepathic battle.

I thought that was how the arc ended?

It wasn't.

ah

Originally posted by wildernesss
IMHO, If this is a strict TP battle, then xavier could shut strange's mind off in a instant....no struggle, no drama. just instantaneous mind wipe. this is the guy who mentally defeated Dark Phoenix. without magic & all the rest strange's mind is not stronger than xavier's. Prof X couldn't shut off Strange's mind even if he used cerebro. Without the eye, Strange is a better tp. With it, he's literally got Agammoto level TP. The eye is cerebro x 100. He's basically immune to tp attacks with the eye. And his mind is way stronger than X's. His mind is strong enough to make himself immortal. Ever wonder why X's title of "worlds greatest telepath" is always qualified with "mutant" i.e "world greatest mutant telepath"? It's because Strange is on earth. X's tp is world wide, Strange's is multiversal level tp. Moondragon beat X, Strange destroyed MD. I'd bet Strange mind wipes X will a little effort, but not much.

As far as the astral plane, afaik, Strange is the only one who can bring in weapons and artifacts into it. He was called the king of the astral plane by Eternity-AO, but that was a while ago.

I enjoy the TP hierarchy debate more than the topic. Would you even say Prof X is in the top 10 best telepaths?

Originally posted by long pig
I enjoy the TP hierarchy debate more than the topic. Would you even say Prof X is in the top 10 best telepaths?

Xavier is a total wild-card, IMO; because of his early position as "number one gun" in the TP realm, it's never out of the question for a writer to give him a win over almost any opponent. By the same token, his status makes him a natural person for new characters to beat in order to make a splash. The result's that he's got some high end feats, and the psychic equivalent of a glass chin. I, for one, would still include him in any top ten, just because his rep and history give him a high WTF factor.

Originally posted by long pig
Would you even say Prof X is in the top 10 best telepaths?

what 10 would you put above him?

In all of comics, there are quite a few above him. But for me, making a top ten is hard because I don't believe that when it comes to telepathy, just because one character beats another i.e Moondragon beat Prof, it doesn't mean one is above the other. You get what I'm saying?

One thing at least is clear: TP hierarchy is incredibly poorly defined. The differences between different forms of TP and mind-control are often unclear, and more powerful psychics are often fooled by the illusions of less powerful.

Didn't Yandroth punk Strange mentally in Defenders 119?

Originally posted by long pig
In all of comics, there are quite a few above him. But for me, making a top ten is hard because I don't believe that when it comes to telepathy, just because one character beats another i.e Moondragon beat Prof, it doesn't mean one is above the other. You get what I'm saying?

I hear exactly what you mean, thats why I wanted to see who your "top tier" were

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Didn't Yandroth punk Strange mentally in Defenders 119?

I don't think so; Strange tried to beat her mentally, but failed, but she also wasn't able to beat strange -- she needed to go after his physical body.

I agree. A top ten is impossible. The best we can do is list ten of the top psychics, but not from greatest to least....mainly because they probably could defeat or stalemate each other on any given day. The reason I'm high on Strange's tp is he is the only one TMK, who has three types. Natural based, Magic based and artifact based/enhanced. At his best he can combine all three, which is what happens when the eye settles on his forehead, and at that point I'd say he's the top dog. But individually, there may be some above his pure mental tp or purely mystic tp.

Ah, let's not forget Loki, guys! That guy is a mental beast.

I thought it was stated that Strange does not possess telepathy? He uses his spells to mimic it somewhat? It's not real telepathy. New Avengers Annual 2 or 3?

Are you ****ing kidding me? They even took away his TP now? Jesus. Classic Strange did, that's who we're talking about. But that sucks, although I understand it. His tp WAS too powerful. I get why they'd take it away along with the rest of his powers.

Originally posted by long pig
Are you ****ing kidding me? They even took away his TP now? Jesus. Classic Strange did, that's who we're talking about. But that sucks, although I understand it. His tp WAS too powerful. I get why they'd take it away along with the rest of his powers.

He said he didn't have telepathy so he couldn't access the memories of the Wolverine and Spider-Man the way a telepath could. He had to something complicated to channel some energies from a different universe to allow him to magically access those memories or something.

Jesus ****ing Christ......

Originally posted by long pig
Jesus ****ing Christ......

It's not the Annual issues. I'll have a look again. I posted the scan a while back. But I know Luke Cage, Wolverine and SpiderMan and Dr. Strange are in it. They need him to access their memories. Will have a look and let you know the issue. I'm presuming it's annual of some sort.

Seriously man....wtf are they doing to my favorite ****ing character? wtf man...

Originally posted by long pig
Seriously man....wtf are they doing to my favorite ****ing character? wtf man...

I think they kind of had to though. I mean this issue would have come out after the formation of the Illuminati so they had to make Xavier relevant some how.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's not the Annual issues. I'll have a look again. I posted the scan a while back. But I know Luke Cage, Wolverine and SpiderMan and Dr. Strange are in it. They need him to access their memories. Will have a look and let you know the issue. I'm presuming it's annual of some sort. No. I really don't want to see that. I just.....christ. That's just going too far.

please correct me if i'm wrong, but has strange ever actually been a natural telepath? hasn't his tp always been achieved through the use of magic & his artifacts and/or meditative/out of body states? in other words, is any version of strange a pure natural telepath, or has it always been achieved through magic/mysticism?




if so, xavier clearly stomps strange if magic isn't involved.

Yes, hes a natural telapath just like its mentioned that all humans have latent psionic abilities
He learned to be one through training similar to how Moondragon and Mantis were trained and got a better control over their psionic abilities
The only instance of any magic enhancing his already present TP is when he uses the eye of agamotto to enhance it.

Originally posted by Simbon
It's a fine feat, but it doesn't change the fact that he was initially fooled by the illusion, and that this is the case with many other psychics (Fantomex and Marvel Boy, just to name two relatively low-power TPers, have repeatedly fooled superior psychics).



Just keep in mind his telepathy was off when Mysterio illusion effected him. Once it was turned on, Mysterio applauded him, since he saw right through.

Originally posted by long pig
What do you mean he can manipulate the astral world into the corp world? I can't see the scan, what'd he do?
Just how the scan describes it. He is one of the few that can twist astral plane into the corporeal world and vice versa. Pulling Xavier astral form, into the real world is one example.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think they kind of had to though. I mean this issue would have come out after the formation of the Illuminati so they had to make Xavier relevant some how.

Me thinks, Its in one of the Illuminati issues.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Yes, hes a natural telapath just like its mentioned that all humans have latent psionic abilities
He learned to be one through training similar to how Moondragon and Mantis were trained and got a better control over their psionic abilities
The only instance of any magic enhancing his already present TP is when he uses the eye of agamotto to enhance it. He's used magical tp many, many times without the EOA. Physically entering people's minds or even throwing their physical body into their own minds like in the Order. He's even commented that natural tps are vulnerable to magical tp.

Went and took a look at some magic TP feats that don't involve the Eye and there are a lot of them. He says natural telepaths have NO defense against magic TP what so ever. Its like a backdoor against even the best natural telepaths. Even Galactus had no defense against magic tp. The Ancient One, taught Strange both magic TP and Natural TP, eventually was surpassed by Strange in those areas. Strange entered his physical mind mysticaly and literally physically flew around in it at the speed of light, reading neuro impulses and re arranged them. It was wild. Who else has done that in anyone's mind? But like I said, the eye isn't the source of his magic telepathy. It magnifies it as well as his innate TP, sometimes individually, sometimes both at the same time. But, imo the best thing other than magnification, the Eye renders Strange immune to all mental attacks/probes ever been attempted against him and when combined with both MTP/NTP it magnifies him to all but omniversal telepathy and awareness.

Originally posted by "Id"
Just keep in mind his telepathy was off when Mysterio illusion effected him. Once it was turned on, Mysterio applauded him, since he saw right through.


Just how the scan describes it. He is one of the few that can twist astral plane into the corporeal world and vice versa. Pulling Xavier astral form, into the real world is one example. If you mean he can manipulate the real world with reality manipulation while in astral form and can manipulate the astral world while in the real world, then so can Strange. Although he's only done it a few times, Strange can be in the astral plane and also the physical world at the same time. Even being conscious in his physical body engaged in a full on wizard battlewhile also being in the astral plane engaging in an astral battle.....his body acting independantly from his AF. Both being fully Strange and fully conscious in two different forms at the same time. I tried VERY hard to make that make sense.

Originally posted by wildernesss
please correct me if i'm wrong, but has strange ever actually been a natural telepath? hasn't his tp always been achieved through the use of magic & his artifacts and/or meditative/out of body states? in other words, is any version of strange a pure natural telepath, or has it always been achieved through magic/mysticism?




if so, xavier clearly stomps strange if magic isn't involved. Even he it was a purely innate telepathic battle, no back door magic TP, Strange would still probably win. I get the X love, but he's not in Strange's league. He's the world's greatest MUTANT telepath. There r non mutant earth telepaths who are his superior, i.e Strange. But since magic tp IS allowed, X has no defense against it at all. In fact magic tp can read minds of people who natural tp can't. Like Magneto with helmet on. Or WolvieYou need magic dfense like Jug's Helmet. Normal defense is useless. X gets thrown into his own mind 4 eternity.

I wonder what'd it be like to be physically thrown into your own mind for eternity? I guess you live forever. How does that even work? And how can you defend against it? Maybe he can beat everyone on here with that tactic.

I wasn't trying to downgrade the feat, I honestly couldn't see it on the phone I was using. But that 'sa a pretty damn high end feat. As for tearing down the astral plane, that's badass, too. I don't know anyone else who can do that.

man, all this talk of the astral plane and no love for shadow king



(respect thread in the works...)