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For each match-up, there will be two flrounds. One will be in Rapture, the other will be in the Wasteland.
Fight 1: Bouncer vs Paladin
Fight 2: Rosie vs Knight
Fight 3: Lancer vs Paladin
Fight 4: Rumbler vs Knight
Fight 5: Subject Delta and Bouncer vs Double Paladin combo

No outside parties will interfere with the fights. Begin!

The Big Daddies ****ing rape.

They're like Super Mutants but better.

Subject Delta can solo the two Paladins.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Big Daddies ****ing rape.

They're like Super Mutants but better.

Subject Delta can solo the two Paladins. subject Delta wont be able to solo them. BoS > Super Mutants, Super Mutants > Splicers. If I'm correct, Delta is less armored that the other Big Daddy's (being an Alpha series). Because of this, a paladins weapons would give Delta a harder fight since they're more effective than any splicer weapons. He's "squishy". A bouncer seems like much, so I think a Rosie would be more appropriate since Bouncers drills are diamond covered and would tear through power armor. Regardless, two paladins is too much. They're no ordinary, run of the mill splicers.

BoS>Super Mutants?

No.

Super Mutants tear through power armour like it was made of tinfoil and pull the human inside through the suit, and tear them in half.

See thing is, I could easily argue Spider Splicers are physically superior to most Super Mutants, being able to cut through solid steel with a fish-hook, destroying a Bathysphere.

Spider Splicers are a different story. I agree with that. However, a Big Daddy can still get messed up by a Spider Slicer, and Delta's suit isn't as heavily armored as a Bouncers. A paladins weapons will make Delta think about the fight. And a bouncer would rape a single paladin, leaving the other to Delta behind cover in either scenario with plasmids. A Rosie would be more fair seeing as how now its a firefight. A paladin WILL give Delta a hard time. Also, I still say Paladin > super mutant due to the fact that physical superiority doesn't make something better. Jack in Bioshock killed Atlas, Big Daddy's, Spider Splicers, Ect.

Delta tore through Rapture, including Bouncers.

He would be on the Paladin on the get-go, and would tear through it.

A Big Daddy getting messed up by a single Spider Splicer? Never happened.

Only Super Mutants have been winning their war in the Capital Wasteland, and I hope to God you are not talking about the pathetic East Coast Brotherhood.

Jack is by no stretch of the word a "normal" human. He was genetically engineered to be capable of doing that, and has more Plasmids in him than most, being capable of using a large variety of tonics and Plasmids in combat.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Delta tore through Rapture, including Bouncers.

He would be on the Paladin on the get-go, and would tear through it.

A Big Daddy getting messed up by a single Spider Splicer? Never happened.

Only Super Mutants have been winning their war in the Capital Wasteland, and I hope to God you are not talking about the pathetic East Coast Brotherhood.

Jack is by no stretch of the word a "normal" human. He was genetically engineered to be capable of doing that, and has more Plasmids in him than most, being capable of using a large variety of tonics and Plasmids in combat. albeit, Jack is no ordinary human, but I wouldn't go as far as saying he's physically superior to a spider splicer, let alone Fontaine. Also, I should have rephrased a spider splicer against a big daddy. I'm saying they'Renae physically capable of ripping through them, but because Big Daddy's are to say the least straight up harassed, a spider spliced wouldn't realistically stand a chance against a big daddy. Only in theory they could (since theoretically they could rip through them. They are capable of doing so). To argue Delta would be immune to a BoS weapons is just being stubborn. The BoS are not slackers. They are THE beat of the best as far as Fallout is concerned. I give that fight to Delta and the Rosie in the end in both locations though, unless its two famous BoS members.

Uh.

Jack is, pretty much, like, the 3rd or 4th strongest splicer in the series, so dun't know what you're talking about.

That said, what the hell strength feats does a Paladin have? And why can't Delta TK the Paladin onto his drill?

I think that the environment sort of dictates especially w/ the bouncer and delta. If the BoS' have some room to move around, they can dodge the drills and just perforate the poor big daddies.

Because, uh, the BoS definitely has far superior agility feats, rite?

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
albeit, Jack is no ordinary human, but I wouldn't go as far as saying he's physically superior to a spider splicer, let alone Fontaine. Also, I should have rephrased a spider splicer against a big daddy. I'm saying they'Renae physically capable of ripping through them, but because Big Daddy's are to say the least straight up harassed, a spider spliced wouldn't realistically stand a chance against a big daddy. Only in theory they could (since theoretically they could rip through them. They are capable of doing so). To argue Delta would be immune to a BoS weapons is just being stubborn. The BoS are not slackers. They are THE beat of the best as far as Fallout is concerned. I give that fight to Delta and the Rosie in the end in both locations though, unless its two famous BoS members. I definitely would. He is easily one of the most powerful splicers in existence, only Subject Delta, Atlas Fontaine, and Eleanor being more powerful. He would ****ing wreck a Spider Splicer. Hell, it is entirely possible to make your Jack capable of wrecking Spider Splicers with the wrench.

Spider Splicers die in droves to Big Daddies. It takes an excessive amount of splicers to take down a single Big Daddy.

I am not arguing Delta would be immune, only that it would crush them both easily regardless.

Hahahaha the Brotherhood the best of the best?

Reilly's Rangers were better than they were at killing Super Mutants.

The NCR stomped the shit out of them.

They are easily among the weakest factions.

I would say the BoS is as powerful as NCR. BoS is stationed in more places than the NCR. It's a fact that a faction that can take more area's than one that can't is more powerful. The Roman Empire, Mongol Empire, British Empire, ect, all took over very large portions of land. Also, I never said a Spider Slicer would kill one. I said that theoretically, a Spider Splicer could kill one based on the Spider Splicer at the beginning of the first Bioshock when you're in the babysphere and the Spider Splicer starts to tear it open. Though, it not out of the realm of possibility for splicers to kill Big Daddy's. I can't remember which audio log it is in the second one, but it's near the end where it's stated that splicers were taking Big Daddy's left and right. I dont know about you, but leadhead splicers dont seem like they'd be able to kill a supermutant. Also, BoS were fighting Enclave AND super mutants. At the beginning of Fallout 3, GNR is defended by a group of BoS fighting off a horde of super mutants AND a super mutant behemoth. All of these are pretty big feet, and is scripted, whereas the last chapter in Bioshock 2 where you have to fight off the horde of Splicers and Big Daddy's isn't scripted because you can make it go on as long as you want and summon Eleanor. Though I guess Delta would annihilate 2 paladins. A gun that shoots rivets, lightning, and fire would be enough. I guess if he wanted to, hypnosis would be an option.

P.S. How can you say that Delta was a more powerful splicer? Atlas's appearance is self-evident that he is, and Eleanor was throughout BioShock 2 being called "the Peoples Daughter" on top of being a plasmid prodigy from a young age and being able to CONTROL little sisters, who had the sea slugs implanted into their stomachs, so a large amount of ADAM is already in them. But what evidence do you have stating that Delta was a more powerful splicer than Jack?

Liberty prime would have been a better Fallout choice, a few daddies or plasmid wielding Delta class big daddies fighting around it, trying to evade its nuke launcher and weapon systems could be interesting to watch.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
I would say the BoS is as powerful as NCR. BoS is stationed in more places than the NCR. It's a fact that a faction that can take more area's than one that can't is more powerful. The Roman Empire, Mongol Empire, British Empire, ect, all took over very large portions of land. Also, I never said a Spider Slicer would kill one. I said that theoretically, a Spider Splicer could kill one based on the Spider Splicer at the beginning of the first Bioshock when you're in the babysphere and the Spider Splicer starts to tear it open. Though, it not out of the realm of possibility for splicers to kill Big Daddy's. I can't remember which audio log it is in the second one, but it's near the end where it's stated that splicers were taking Big Daddy's left and right. I dont know about you, but leadhead splicers dont seem like they'd be able to kill a supermutant. Also, BoS were fighting Enclave AND super mutants. At the beginning of Fallout 3, GNR is defended by a group of BoS fighting off a horde of super mutants AND a super mutant behemoth. All of these are pretty big feet, and is scripted, whereas the last chapter in Bioshock 2 where you have to fight off the horde of Splicers and Big Daddy's isn't scripted because you can make it go on as long as you want and summon Eleanor. Though I guess Delta would annihilate 2 paladins. A gun that shoots rivets, lightning, and fire would be enough. I guess if he wanted to, hypnosis would be an option.

P.S. How can you say that Delta was a more powerful splicer? Atlas's appearance is self-evident that he is, and Eleanor was throughout BioShock 2 being called "the Peoples Daughter" on top of being a plasmid prodigy from a young age and being able to CONTROL little sisters, who had the sea slugs implanted into their stomachs, so a large amount of ADAM is already in them. But what evidence do you have stating that Delta was a more powerful splicer than Jack? Then you would be wrong. The NCR crushed the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood is nowhere near as large as the NCR, to say it is is not just your opinion, it's wrong. The Brotherhood has collections of small outposts. The NCR is a large, fully-functioning nation, the Mojave alone has enough NCR to take out the Brotherhood. Kinda like they did, they crushed them at Helios 1, their training and technology no match for NCR manpower and resources. The Brotherhood is dying out, this is explicitly a plot point in New Vegas, and even in Fallout 3 it was only with the help of the Wanderer that they were able to get a foothold.

Why? Spider Splicers are strong. Big Daddies are much stronger. This is clear, and it only helps the Big Daddies' cases that as strong as Spider Splicers are, Big Daddies are the far superior foe. Also, there was never an audio log that says that Big Daddies were being taken "left and right." There is a single log by Diane McClintock that states a large group of splicers following Atlas that she was in were capable of taking out ONE Big Daddy, but that is it. The average Super Mutant? Why not? Super Mutants are not immune to small-arms fire.

The Enclave only made themselves known near the end of the game. And the Brotherhood had Liberty Prime to fight them, in fact that was the only reason they were winning. Also, no, they had the Lone Wanderer's help to take out the Mutants and the behemoth, and you forget you are speaking about the team that is considered the best of the best of the BoS. Most do not do so well.

The creators confirmed that Jack would not survive the Rapture of Bioshock 2. Beyond that, Subject Delta is a Big Daddy, giving him an advantage from the get-go, but Subject Delta was capable of taking out Big Sisters, numerous Big Daddies, and shit, he is also definitely physically stronger.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Then you would be wrong. The NCR crushed the Brotherhood.

Yeah, because they were outnumbered something like 20 to 1 or 50 to 1. They held their own against the NCR for quite sometime, despite this fact (in the battle for the Mojave solar power station (Helios One), of course.)

That's fairly good feat by the Mojave chapter of the BoS.


That said...since a revolver can take down a Big Daddy, a BoS member with a Tri-Beam Laser rifle could easily kill one.

I agree the BoS weapons far outclass Raptures dated weaponry (laser gatling guns vs a Tommy gun?) but Delta has plasmids so anything from TK to those hurricane traps to fireballs could be at his disposal, could ruin their ability to wield weapons.

Wha da hell is Subject Sigma or are'nt DLC characters not allowed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I agree the BoS weapons far outclass Raptures dated weaponry (laser gatling guns vs a Tommy gun?) but Delta has plasmids so anything from TK to those hurricane traps to fireballs could be at his disposal, could ruin their ability to wield weapons.

Yeah, I forgot about the OP specifying several characters. I mistook the thread title for just a standard BoS in power-armor versus a standard Big Daddy.

Thilly me.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah, because they were outnumbered something like 20 to 1 or 50 to 1. They held their own against the NCR for quite sometime, despite this fact (in the battle for the Mojave solar power station (Helios One), of course.)

That's fairly good feat by the Mojave chapter of the BoS.


That said...since a revolver can take down a Big Daddy, a BoS member with a Tri-Beam Laser rifle could easily kill one. What is your point? I would never dispute the overall tech advantage and overall superior training goes to the Brotherhood. I am comparing them as a faction. And as a faction the NCR would crush the Brotherhood, and has. The resources of the NCR are beyond that of the Brotherhood's to an absurd extent, as well as its manpower. The Brotherhood is not only too small, it is stretched too thin.

A revolver can take down a Paladin in Powered Armour too. Only the difference is a Big Daddy is much faster and stronger. Big Daddies can take hits from various Plasmids as well.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What is your point? I would never dispute the overall tech advantage and overall superior training goes to the Brotherhood. I am comparing them as a faction. And as a faction the NCR would crush the Brotherhood, and has. The resources of the NCR are beyond that of the Brotherhood's to an absurd extent, as well as its manpower. The Brotherhood is not only too small, it is stretched too thin.

A revolver can take down a Paladin in Powered Armour too. Only the difference is a Big Daddy is much faster and stronger. Big Daddies can take hits from various Plasmids as well.

1. You do realize that the NCR BoS war almost resulted in a victory for the BoS, right? The ONLY reason the BoS lost was due to inferior numbers and a better propoganda machine from the NCR to keep refilling their ranks. The BoS could not refill their ranks because of their policies.

2. I dare you to try and take down a BoS in power armor with the .357 (just regular clothes, to be fair to a bioshock comparison) (one of the most powerful revolvers in the game...without cheating). Compare that to Bioshock big Daddies.

Hint: unless you use VATS, you will be lucky to get off 3-4 shots before you are dead. Unless, of course, you decide to try and take him or her out from a distance. Close quarters like many of the big daddy encounters? Nah.

I was underwhelmed with the Big Daddies. They were talked up. The first encounter was a bit of a let down. I was expecting this stupidly difficult battle. In New Vegas and F3 the first encounters were difficult without using VATS. It wasn't until I got power armor and strong weapons that they became easy to take down.

Nevermind just noticed the Lancer big daddies in the first post

those guys are stronger then the Rosie's and Bouncers with their Ion Laser and Flash Attack.

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. You do realize that the NCR BoS war almost resulted in a victory for the BoS, right? The ONLY reason the BoS lost was due to inferior numbers and a better propoganda machine from the NCR to keep refilling their ranks. The BoS could not refill their ranks because of their policies.

2. I dare you to try and take down a BoS in power armor with the .357 (just regular clothes, to be fair to a bioshock comparison) (one of the most powerful revolvers in the game...without cheating). Compare that to Bioshock big Daddies.

Hint: unless you use VATS, you will be lucky to get off 3-4 shots before you are dead. Unless, of course, you decide to try and take him or her out from a distance. Close quarters like many of the big daddy encounters? Nah.

I was underwhelmed with the Big Daddies. They were talked up. The first encounter was a bit of a let down. I was expecting this stupidly difficult battle. In New Vegas and F3 the first encounters were difficult without using VATS. It wasn't until I got power armor and strong weapons that they became easy to take down. 1. Only... It most certainly did not. "Almost resulted in victory"? That's a load of bullshit and I would like to see you prove it. They did well at first, able to match the NCR. But ultimately, superior numbers and superior commanding led to NCR crushing the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood retreated, not the NCR, and the Brotherhood lost half of its chapter at Helios One. The NCR, though losing technically more soldiers, did not lose half of what they had in the Mojave. NCR, Caesar's Legion, and Mr. House all make the Brotherhood look like shit, to be blunt. Yes, the BoS could do better if they were not all stupid morons who refused to really recruit. But they are in fact stupid morons who refuse to recruit, which is one factor that makes them a weaker faction.

2. Dude. If you want to go by gameplay, I could take one down with my bare ****ing hands. In Fallout 3, I can and have killed Deathclaws while wearing minimal armour and while using my bare hands. One the hardest difficulty. While I cannot really do that in New Vegas to a Deathclaw, I can easily ****ing rape a Brotherhood member. My point is that you are using gameplay to support your argument, don't do it.

But my point is, gameplay lol. The PC of Fallout 3 and NV are not as maneuverable as Jack is, for one, which makes the comparison faulty.

That just means you suck at Fallout though. And once more: GAMEPLAY MECHANICS. The fights being harder means very little. Is a single Spider Splicer difficult to beat? Not really, no. But a single Spider Splicer has shown to be capable of tearing through Brotherhood power armour as though it were cheese, and are demonstratably stronger than Super Mutants.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Only... It most certainly did not. "Almost resulted in victory"? That's a load of bullshit and I would like to see you prove it. They did well at first, able to match the NCR. But ultimately, superior numbers and superior commanding led to NCR crushing the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood retreated, not the NCR, and the Brotherhood lost half of its chapter at Helios One. The NCR, though losing technically more soldiers, did not lose half of what they had in the Mojave. NCR, Caesar's Legion, and Mr. House all make the Brotherhood look like shit, to be blunt. Yes, the BoS could do better if they were not all stupid morons who refused to really recruit. But they are in fact stupid morons who refuse to recruit, which is one factor that makes them a weaker faction.

Sure, lemme bring up the game right now and take the screen shot of the dialogue.





It was in the game BoS.



Get over it.


Also, you show your ignorance of Fallout: the BATTLE of Helios One is NOT the NCR BoS War. Those are two different things.

Here's a brief history of the war and it sums it up decently (but could use more details and in game citations):

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR-Brotherhood_War

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. Dude. If you want to go by gameplay, I could take one down with my bare ****ing hands. In Fallout 3, I can and have killed Deathclaws while wearing minimal armour and while using my bare hands. One the hardest difficulty. While I cannot really do that in New Vegas to a Deathclaw, I can easily ****ing rape a Brotherhood member. My point is that you are using gameplay to support your argument, don't do it.

I disagree until you prove it. Doing so with minimal armor in an open room is near impossible. With your bare hands? You shouldn't even be able to damage the BoS character even with endurance maxed, you will still have difficulty inflicting damage in any amount of reasonible time. This is why I'm calling "bullsh*t" on your claim especially against a fully armored knight with a triple beam laser or other high damage weapons. There is an unarmed damage perk you can get that automatically negates 15 of the enemies DT, but with maxed out stats (including implants) and perks, it would take you 3-5 minutes to even kill them if they were standing still, much less firing on your with high powered weapons.

Tangent: Also, in fallout 3, I was able to kill a death claw with the power fist at only a level 6. I did not know what they were since it was my first time playing a fallout game. They were too easy to kill in Fallout 3.

Originally posted by NemeBro
But my point is, gameplay lol. The PC of Fallout 3 and NV are not as maneuverable as Jack is, for one, which makes the comparison faulty.

Wrong. Without using some of the other "agility" aspects of Bioshock, just gently running around in a circle is more than enough to take down a regular bid daddy withOUT plasmids or powerful weapons.

The comparison is perfect which should clearly show the huge difference between the ability to damage the same characters. There's actual damage systems in each game and with the revolver (I forget what it is called in Bioshock), you can take down a big daddy with little effort withOUT plasmids or any "awesome" stuff. In Fallout? Even with maxed percs and stats, you will have a hard time taking just a single BoS knight down who has a powerful weapon...assuming you just have the .357 revolver without mods. If you feel that the "stats" in agility are unequal between the two games...use the damn command console to prove me wrong: bump up your speed to match.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That just means you suck at Fallout though. And once more: GAMEPLAY MECHANICS. The fights being harder means very little. Is a single Spider Splicer difficult to beat? Not really, no. But a single Spider Splicer has shown to be capable of tearing through Brotherhood power armour as though it were cheese, and are demonstratably stronger than Super Mutants.

No, it means you are definitely lying, had no idea that I could call your bullsh*t bluff, and have little understanding of the dps/dt system in Fallout: New Vegas.





This entire argument is irrelevant since I already stated that I did not see the OP: I thought it was an average knight against an average big daddy...not the "big boys" of big daddy's.