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There is no weakness exploitation of any kind, this means not manipulating their internal powers, no draining, no taking away hammers nor boards or anything crappy like that. This is a sheer power, defending and attacking, with all characters fighting in character but at the height of their abilities -which means they will use their full speed, skill and will use tactics with their respective powersets-. The three will fight in a secluded planet, with no bfr.

Who. Comes. On. Top?

taking thor's hammer is weakness exploitation?

Just punching? superdur http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/Deadpool77/th_troll-face-problem.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
taking thor's hammer is weakness exploitation?


Well, he's horrible outclassed without it 131

Superman.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Just punching?
















superdur trollface

Nah, any non-weakness exploiting offensive abilities are allowed. I'll see if I can edit that out.

1. Superman 4
2. Thor 3,5
3. Silver Surfer 2,5

Thor.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
1. Superman 4
2. Thor 3,5
3. Silver Surfer 2,5 This.

Surfer. I'm not of the school of thought that he needs weakness exploitation to beat Supes. It's the easiest and most sure fire means of beating him, but not the only.

And I also think that outside of a plot driven scenario Surfer has all the tools to beat Thor, particularly since at any point he can simply wave his hands and create unbreakable restraints around Thor's arms and legs, immobilizing him, and then just go hammer down protocol on his dome piece (pun intended).

So yeah, Surfer.

So does that mean Thor won't be allowed to use any magic based attacks cause they could exploit Superman's magic weakness

@ Delph: Not sure how he'd pull this off when he's going to be dealing with Clark going in on him at the same time. Norrin is a lot of things, but he isn't powerful enough to deal with two other top tiers at the same time. Plus, if this comes to fisticuffs, I can't see Surfer having the advantage over Thor + Mjolnir, or Supes and his H2H skills + strength.

Surfer.

Thor
Surfer
Supes

Thor and Surfer are toss up... they are pretty much equals with no advantages over the other. A Thor fighting smart is a powerful weapon. He is by far the most powerful on the field imo.

Thor for the majority, followed by Kal, followed by Norrin.

Surfer wins

Surfer win..he's the most powerful one here..

Originally posted by Harbinger
@ Delph: Not sure how he'd pull this off when he's going to be dealing with Clark going in on him at the same time. Norrin is a lot of things, but he isn't powerful enough to deal with two other top tiers at the same time. Plus, if this comes to fisticuffs, I can't see Surfer having the advantage over Thor + Mjolnir, or Supes and his H2H skills + strength.

He's powerful enough, and has the tools. He's fast enough to dodge Supes, can simply go intangible or shrink, and has the option of trapping an opponent in his board while he deals with the other opponent. Also it doesn't have to come to fisticuffs. That's pretty much Supes' saving grace. He could just form a lead lined enclosure around his head to blind him, trap him in the board while he's blinded, or trap him in the board while he's distracted fighting Thor with a board cheap shot. Could do the same to Thor. Creating restraints is just good tactics.

SS takes this

Originally posted by illadelph12
He's powerful enough, and has the tools. He's fast enough to dodge Supes, can simply go intangible or shrink, and has the option of trapping an opponent in his board while he deals with the other opponent. Also it doesn't have to come to fisticuffs. That's pretty much Supes' saving grace. He could just form a lead lined enclosure around his head to blind him, trap him in the board while he's blinded, or trap him in the board while he's distracted fighting Thor with a board cheap shot. Could do the same to Thor. Creating restraints is just good tactics.

Restraints is his only saing grace against Thor.

No, it really isn't, but it's sound tactics.

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, it really isn't, but it's sound tactics.

Everything else would get absorbed.

Goin with surfer

Originally posted by Bentley
There is no weakness exploitation of any kind, this means not manipulating their internal powers, no draining, no taking away hammers nor boards or anything crappy like that. This is a sheer power, defending and attacking, with all characters fighting in character but at the height of their abilities -which means they will use their full speed, skill and will use tactics with their respective powersets-. The three will fight in a secluded planet, with no bfr.

Who. Comes. On. Top?

Surfer, if it's a fist fight.

Or even if it's not, imo. But definitely if it's just a brawl.

Wait, you think Surfer would take it in a fist fight or strictly a brawl?

^ Contrary to popular belief, Surfer can actually give beatdowns. Look what he did to Beta Ray Bill with an opening.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Contrary to popular belief, Surfer can actually give beatdowns. Look what he did to Beta Ray Bill with an opening.

I'm aware Norrin can throw down in that manner when push comes to shove, but that arena of fighting is something that Thor and Clark are his clear superiors in, imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Everything else would get absorbed.

I'd like to see Thor 'absorb' the board being phased into his head and/or chest and then made solid and spun at C like a buzzsaw.

Intentionally, I mean.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm aware Norrin can throw down in that manner when push comes to shove, but that arena of fighting is something that Thor and Clark are his clear superiors in, imo. i agree

he lacks the sheer skills and will of a true fighter, but he doesn't lack the power to fight with someone in that strength class though.

Surfer.
At his peak , he's too durable and dynamic for either opponent to put him down.

Surfer can also cast powerful illusions, making it impossible for the other two to tell what is going on. He could put Lois Lane's face on Thor's body, ****ing with Superman's combat effectiveness!

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, it really isn't, but it's sound tactics. The restraints don't keep Thor from using his powers especially is AoE attacks, plus he can teleport out, as for getting out of the board Thor was recently able to break out of a pocket dimension I don't see Surfer's Board being any other problem.

As for Versatility yes Surfer is Thor's superior and has finer control over it, but Thor isn't lacking.

Teleportation, Soul Sucking, he has Matter Manip to, etc, etc.

Thor would not be overwhelmed by the Surfer. As for the board Thor can do the same with his Hammer.


For the fight I generally choose overall versatility when it comes to big battles with mutliple people because it makes it easier for the person to engage the opponents on their own terms and dictate the battle.

I think Superman is last cause really he needs to stay H2H, he's not gonna win this match in the long range. He has the tools to do it but a feel more has to go right for him then it would the other two.

Surfer is the most versatile here in powerset but at the same time he's gonna have to keep everything long range. He can beat either one of them but if it goes melee I think the other two have a clear advantage over him. Superman a clear clear advantage in melee.

Thor can win both long range and close range. Plus his storms and magical attacks can be game changers.


So it should be

Surfer/Thor
Superman

imo

Originally posted by Newjak
The restraints don't keep Thor from using his powers especially is AoE attacks, plus he can teleport out, as for getting out of the board Thor was recently able to break out of a pocket dimension I don't see Surfer's Board being any other problem.

As for Versatility yes Surfer is Thor's superior and has finer control over it, but Thor isn't lacking.

Teleportation, Soul Sucking, he has Matter Manip to, etc, etc.

Thor would not be overwhelmed by the Surfer. As for the board Thor can do the same with his Hammer.


For the fight I generally choose overall versatility when it comes to big battles with mutliple people because it makes it easier for the person to engage the opponents on their own terms and dictate the battle.

I think Superman is last cause really he needs to stay H2H, he's not gonna win this match in the long range. He has the tools to do it but a feel more has to go right for him then it would the other two.

Surfer is the most versatile here in powerset but at the same time he's gonna have to keep everything long range. He can beat either one of them but if it goes melee I think the other two have a clear advantage over him. Superman a clear clear advantage in melee.

Thor can win both long range and close range. Plus his storms and magical attacks can be game changers.


So it should be

Surfer/Thor
Superman

imo

I agree with majority of this... Thor is suited for both, long range and h2h battling... he isn't lacking in either.

One thing I disagree with though is Thor and Surfer long range power. I think Thor long range powers are more destructive than Surfers imo.

I don't think that the long range will be the winning factor.
Superman has long range too btw, the power of his HV is quite underestimated.
But anyway, in the fights it's pretty obvious that the first long range attacks won't accomplish anything lasting to someone like Superman, who can close the distance rather fast. Neither Surfer nor Thor have shown the fighting speed of Superman or his ability to dodge energy attacks like he does. Surfer is also quite known for his style of coming close to his enemies.
It would end in a close range fight, with energy attacks, hammerstrikes, heat vision and fists. It's delusional to think that SS would be able to avoid contact and always connect with his blasts, like it's obvious that Thor lacks the speed against those too for a similar tactic.
So in the end Superman should prevail, with Thor very close by. Except if you allow weakness exploit.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with majority of this... Thor is suited for both, long range and h2h battling... he isn't lacking in either.

One thing I disagree with though is Thor and Surfer long range power. I think Thor long range powers are more destructive than Surfers imo. I do agree Thor's raw power output and damage is greater than Surfer's, but Surfer's is comparable and he also is more versatile long range so overall I would give Surfer the edge in a far away battle. Its just what Surfer does and he does it better than anyone else.

Of course Thor's attack in general I feel pack more punch then the other two, but its not just about raw power output, there are other factors that evens things out.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I don't think that the long range will be the winning factor.
Superman has long range too btw, the power of his HV is quite underestimated.
But anyway, in the fights it's pretty obvious that the first long range attacks won't accomplish anything lasting to someone like Superman, who can close the distance rather fast. Neither Surfer nor Thor have shown the fighting speed of Superman or his ability to dodge energy attacks like he does. Surfer is also quite known for his style of coming close to his enemies.
It would end in a close range fight, with energy attacks, hammerstrikes, heat vision and fists. It's delusional to think that SS would be able to avoid contact and always connect with his blasts, like it's obvious that Thor lacks the speed against those too for a similar tactic.
So in the end Superman should prevail, with Thor very close by. Except if you allow weakness exploit. I do agree with some of this but to me Surfer also has a lot more options then Superman to dictate the battle.

Superman can close gaps but he also has to worry about the other combatant at all times, plus Surfer is no slouch in the speed department especially in traveling speed.

You mix that with his versatile powerset and I think Surfer has more ways to dictate a battle with multiple opponents than Superman does.

Originally posted by Newjak
I do agree Thor's raw power output and damage is greater than Surfer's, but Surfer's is comparable and he also is more versatile long range so overall I would give Surfer the edge in a far away battle. Its just what Surfer does and he does it better than anyone else.

Of course Thor's attack in general I feel pack more punch then the other two, but its not just about raw power output, there are other factors that evens things out.

I know its not the deciding factor but a good blast from Thor "like he has been doing lately" should cripple or out right take any one of these two out of the fight. I'm referring to his Chaos King blast or his Void attack that he did. Its just that simple. Thor can end this fight whenever he wants to imo... and this includes his hammer shots as well (that he also empowers with magic along with a blast following it).

Lately, it has been in character for Thor to use these tactics.

Originally posted by carver9
I know its not the deciding factor but a good blast from Thor "like he has been doing lately" should cripple or out right take any one of these two out of the fight. I'm referring to his Chaos King blast or his Void attack that he did. Its just that simple. Thor can end this fight whenever he wants to imo... and this includes his hammer shots as well (that he also empowers with magic along with a blast following it).

Lately, it has been in character for Thor to use these tactics. Fair enough, but a lot of Thor's biggest attacks do require a small charge time and he is already at a speed disadvantage in this fight.

So I don't think Thor can end this battle as quickly as he wants.

Originally posted by carver9
I know its not the deciding factor but a good blast from Thor "like he has been doing lately" should cripple or out right take any one of these two out of the fight. I'm referring to his Chaos King blast or his Void attack that he did. Its just that simple. Thor can end this fight whenever he wants to imo... and this includes his hammer shots as well (that he also empowers with magic along with a blast following it).

Lately, it has been in character for Thor to use these tactics.

You do realise Superman and Surfer have taken blasts from near abstract level beings and not gone down? If you're argueing Thor could level either of these two with one hit you're either seriously underestimating their durability or hugely overestimating thor's power output

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
You do realise Superman and Surfer have taken blasts from near abstract level beings and not gone down? If you're argueing Thor could level either of these two with one hit you're either seriously underestimating their durability or hugely overestimating thor's power output

You do know that Thor blast punched a hole in Chaos King and killed Void (who at one point faught all of Earth hero and was basically tanking their attacks)?

Its not an underestimation, his power output is dangerous. Lol @ them tanking attacks froms abstracts.

Originally posted by Newjak
Fair enough, but a lot of Thor's biggest attacks do require a small charge time and he is already at a speed disadvantage in this fight.

So I don't think Thor can end this battle as quickly as he wants.

Naah, his attacks against CK and Void happened instantly. There is another time he used a similar attack recently but I can't think of it. It just requires him to lift his hammer.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I don't think that the long range will be the winning factor.
Superman has long range too btw, the power of his HV is quite underestimated.
But anyway, in the fights it's pretty obvious that the first long range attacks won't accomplish anything lasting to someone like Superman, who can close the distance rather fast. Neither Surfer nor Thor have shown the fighting speed of Superman or his ability to dodge energy attacks like he does. Surfer is also quite known for his style of coming close to his enemies.
It would end in a close range fight, with energy attacks, hammerstrikes, heat vision and fists. It's delusional to think that SS would be able to avoid contact and always connect with his blasts, like it's obvious that Thor lacks the speed against those too for a similar tactic.
So in the end Superman should prevail, with Thor very close by. Except if you allow weakness exploit.
I agree that Superman's heat vision is powerful, but it can't seek out and follow targets the way Darkseid's Omega beams do. On planet it's range is limited by the curvature of the planet. In space it's a different story.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
You do realise Superman and Surfer have taken blasts from near abstract level beings and not gone down? If you're argueing Thor could level either of these two with one hit you're either seriously underestimating their durability or hugely overestimating thor's power output
Surfer using the Crunch to take out Tenebrous and Aegis was a pretty impressive durability feat.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that Thor blast punched a hole in Chaos King and killed Void (who at one point faught all of Earth hero and was basically tanking their attacks)?

Its not an underestimation, his power output is dangerous. Lol @ them tanking attacks froms abstracts. lol

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that Thor blast punched a hole in Chaos King and killed Void (who at one point faught all of Earth hero and was basically tanking their attacks)?

Its not an underestimation, his power output is dangerous. Lol @ them tanking attacks froms abstracts.

So, despite the fact that Superman has tanked shots from - Imperiex Prime, Godlike Lex (from the recent Action Run) and many others, one shot from Thor can take him out?

Same goes for Surfer and the fact he's taken hits from Galactus, Tenebrous, Aegis, having his body torn apart by the Crunch and still standing, etc.

And some context to the killed Void thing- It was pretty much the whole "kill me" thing which allowed him to kill him. I mean, yes he disintegrated him, but just flying into the Sun did the same thing to Sentry (something both Surfer and Supes have been able to easily survive), but he regened because he was going insane.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer.
At his peak , he's too durable and dynamic for either opponent to put him down.

Surfer can also cast powerful illusions, making it impossible for the other two to tell what is going on. He could put Lois Lane's face on Thor's body, ****ing with Superman's combat effectiveness!
Why not take that same strategy a step farther. Using his powers of illusion when Superman looks at Surfer he see's Lois and see's Doomsday when looking at Thor. When Thor looks at Superman he see's either Kurse or Destroyer and when he looks at Surfer he see's Siff or Frigga. Imagine how ferociously they'd attack each other thinking their respective loved ones are in grave danger. Leaving Surfer to clean up.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that Thor blast punched a hole in Chaos King and killed Void (who at one point faught all of Earth hero and was basically tanking their attacks)?

Its not an underestimation, his power output is dangerous. Lol @ them tanking attacks froms abstracts.

Adam ripped a hole in Spectre with his Psycho Crusher. That doesn't mean his lightnings letting him rip through bricks on his level like a hot knife through butter.

If the Chaos King thing isn't PIS, it's a sure bet the lightning didn't do as much damage as it looked like. Not if he was tanking attacks from Supergod Herc.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
So, despite the fact that Superman has tanked shots from - Imperiex Prime, Godlike Lex (from the recent Action Run) and many others, one shot from Thor can take him out?

Same goes for Surfer and the fact he's taken hits from Galactus, Tenebrous, Aegis, having his body torn apart by the Crunch and still standing, etc.

And some context to the killed Void thing- It was pretty much the whole "kill me" thing which allowed him to kill him. I mean, yes he disintegrated him, but just flying into the Sun did the same thing to Sentry (something both Surfer and Supes have been able to easily survive), but he regened because he was going insane.

It makes my STOMACH HURT when people bring up stuff that they don't know what they are talking about. Imperiex disintegrated Doomsday and then shot Superman and almost killed him if it wasn't for Darkseid saving. Superman NEVER tanked a blast from Imperiex and the only time he actually survived an Imperiex type attack was when he was Sundipped. DAMN.

Godlike Luthor was weakening throughout that battle with Supes and Supes only survived an initial attack from him when he was near deplition. OMG

Surfer got crushed by Tenebrous and Aegis. Hell, the first punch that Tenebrous hit Surfer with cracked his shell across his entire body and almost laid him out.

Sentry was trying to kill himself... that's why the sun was hurting him and Sentry isn't Void.

Originally posted by carver9

Godlike Luthor was weakening throughout that battle with Supes and Supes only survived an initial attack from him when he was near deplition. OMG

No. that's not it. Even before gaining full access to the childs power, he should have had enough to destroy Superman. But the child was putting restrictions on how Luthor could use the power even then, or "limiting his power", according to Mr. Mind.

Originally posted by carver9
It makes my STOMACH HURT when people bring up stuff that they don't know what they are talking about. Imperiex disintegrated Doomsday and then shot Superman and almost killed him if it wasn't for Darkseid saving. Superman NEVER tanked a blast from Imperiex and the only time he actually survived an Imperiex type attack was when he was Sundipped. DAMN.

Godlike Luthor was weakening throughout that battle with Supes and Supes only survived an initial attack from him when he was near deplition. OMG

Surfer got crushed by Tenebrous and Aegis. Hell, the first punch that Tenebrous hit Surfer with cracked his shell across his entire body and almost laid him out.

Sentry was trying to kill himself... that's why the sun was hurting him and Sentry isn't Void.

The point is- he survived a blast from a near abstract, he's tanked unbelievable amounts of punishment in the past, one shot from Thor isn't going to lay him out.

And no, Lex hit Superman meaning to disintegrate him, Superman recovered, and then Lex started weakening after, hitting Clark the entire time he was weakening but he wouldn't go down. And still, hits from a weakening nigh omnipotent Luthor > Thor's blasts.

And Surfer was still going after three or four hits from TnA- yes he was losing badly, but then he got back up, manipulated the most powerful energy source in the universe, which was tearing him apart, and he kept on going. Yet one blast from Thor would take him down him?

And okay- Void was cut open by Ares with his axe- my point being, it wasn't Bob being super durable that made him hard to put down, it was his unlimited healing.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish

And no, Lex hit Superman meaning to disintegrate him, Superman recovered, and then Lex started weakening after, hitting Clark the entire time he was weakening but he wouldn't go down. And still, hits from a weakening nigh omnipotent Luthor > Thor's blasts.


To be honest, the attempts to kill Superman don't mean much if Luthor was restricted in how he could channel his power. For all we know, his restrictions would've allowed Batman to survive unscathed.

Does anyone know if/have links to any writer or editor saying Silver Surfer would beat Superman?

I mean, I know its a Marvel internet warrior thing but sometimes I wonder about cult's beliefs.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
The point is- he survived a blast from a near abstract, he's tanked unbelievable amounts of punishment in the past, one shot from Thor isn't going to lay him out.

And no, Lex hit Superman meaning to disintegrate him, Superman recovered, and then Lex started weakening after, hitting Clark the entire time he was weakening but he wouldn't go down. And still, hits from a weakening nigh omnipotent Luthor > Thor's blasts.

And Surfer was still going after three or four hits from TnA- yes he was losing badly, but then he got back up, manipulated the most powerful energy source in the universe, which was tearing him apart, and he kept on going. Yet one blast from Thor would take him down him?

And okay- Void was cut open by Ares with his axe- my point being, it wasn't Bob being super durable that made him hard to put down, it was his unlimited healing.

Darkseid saved him from the blast... did you not get that part? If it wasn't for Darkseid, he would have died.

Your Lex argument is moot since there were circumstances involved.

One hit from Tenebrous annihilated Surfer to the point that his entire body was cracked and he could barely stand.

I don't think anyone here is getting one shotted bu anyone else.

Originally posted by carver9
Darkseid saved him from the blast... did you not get that part? If it wasn't for Darkseid, he would have died.

Your Lex argument is moot since there were circumstances involved.

One hit from Tenebrous annihilated Surfer to the point that his entire body was cracked and he could barely stand.

Four hits from Tenebrous and Aegis knocked Surfer down... for all of a minute before he got up and performed a ridiculous energy manipulation feat and tore himself apart in the process.

Ie, he wasn't down after one shot.

Yet one shot from Thor will put him down?

No one is going down easy in this fight, IMO this are the prime top tiers and deserve pretty much every consideration among their peers.

I would've put Kyle here too, but Geoff's take on the Lanterns have cheapened their market value here in KMC.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't think anyone here is getting one shotted bu anyone else.

That's why I said "crippled".

Surfer wins.

Superman wins.

Clark ko's Thor from the start if he aint holding back against him again, its highly unlikely Surfre will go for the weakness thing, in the end he will get beat down.

Geezus.

Thor isn't one shotting either Surfer or Superman and he wouldn't greviously injure or cripple either of them in a single blow if everyone is operating at optimal levels.

Thor couldn't take down Surfer/Superman with a single blow. Not one powered by only his strength at least. At bare minimum, there would have to be circumstances like it being a shot from behind or what not. Since they're peers, it's possible that he could really rock or hurt them with a blow and vise versa.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Superman wins.

Clark ko's Thor from the start if he aint holding back against him again, its highly unlikely Surfre will go for the weakness thing, in the end he will get beat down.
So not only is Superman breaking character by hitting his absolute hardest against an adversary that he doesn't even know would be able to survive such a blow, but Surfer is also breaking character by not using the strategies that have worked in the past against similar opponents? Interesting hypothesis.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Superman wins.

Clark ko's Thor from the start if he aint holding back against him again, its highly unlikely Surfre will go for the weakness thing, in the end he will get beat down.

WTF

As for the fight, Thor wins.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
So not only is Superman breaking character by hitting his absolute hardest against an adversary that he doesn't even know would be able to survive such a blow, but Surfer is also breaking character by not using the strategies that have worked in the past against similar opponents? Interesting hypothesis.

Surfer can't use weakness exploit here anyways.

Speed kills. Thor, Surfer and Carver get punched in the face, and lose.

Originally posted by Badabing
Speed kills. Thor, Surfer and Carver get punched in the face, and lose.

,

Sounds painful.

Those two have no escape against Superman's T-Vo

Originally posted by carver9
,

Sounds painful.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
So not only is Superman breaking character by hitting his absolute hardest against an adversary that he doesn't even know would be able to survive such a blow, but Surfer is also breaking character by not using the strategies that have worked in the past against similar opponents? Interesting hypothesis. He knows Thor can take his punches, Surfer aint breaking character at all, he has used weakness exploitation how many times in his history? not enough to get him a clear win when he normaly punches and blasts.
Originally posted by carver9
WTF

As for the fight, Thor wins. You mean Superman.

It doesn't make sense that Surfer is handicapped and the others aren't.

Originally posted by Nihilist
He knows Thor can take his punches, Surfer aint breaking character at all, he has used weakness exploitation how many times in his history? not enough to get him a clear win when he normaly punches and blasts.
Fights from the crossovers don't count because of writer bias. Superman would have no idea what Thor or Surfer's capabilities were until he experienced them first hand.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Fights from the crossovers don't count because of writer bias. Superman would have no idea what Thor or Surfer's capabilities were until he experienced them first hand. Bullshit, JLA/AVENGERS is cannon, but not here as too many Thor fans cried about it.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Bullshit, JLA/AVENGERS is cannon, but not here as too many Thor fans cried about it.

That's what I keep hearing from people who want the crossover to count, but I don't really hear the same thing coming from the mods. Not saying you're wrong, but it's like the same thing when people say "oh, a bunch of people voted Superman most hated guy on the forum" or "90% of the forum hates the Hulk".

In any case, I certainly don't get that impression nowadays.

Thor sits at the head of table while Surfer and Superman wrestle outside over who gets to peer in through the window.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
It doesn't make sense that Surfer is handicapped and the others aren't.


Would you rather have Thor handicapped or Kal? I mean, the weaknesses are part of their character but they don't reflect their entire powerset, it's good to mesure characters by their potential from time to time and not to seek an easy way for them to always win. It's not like Surfer is outgunned here either.

Originally posted by Bentley
Would you rather have Thor handicapped or Kal? I mean, the weaknesses are part of their character but they don't reflect their entire powerset, it's good to mesure characters by their potential from time to time and not to seek an easy way for them to always win. It's not like Surfer is outgunned here either.
I'm not saying he's outgunned. If you want to accurately gauge their fighting abilities you don't do that by handicapping one and leaving the other two alone. You give all three their base abilities and proceed from there. It would be like telling BJ Penn that he couldn't use juijitsu in an MMA fight or telling Cap that he can't use his sheild. Doing it this way all it really establishes is who is the most one dimensional.

Yeah...


...and Surfer still wins.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
I'm not saying he's outgunned. If you want to accurately gauge their fighting abilities you don't do that by handicapping one and leaving the other two alone. You give all three their base abilities and proceed from there. It would be like telling BJ Penn that he couldn't use juijitsu in an MMA fight or telling Cap that he can't use his sheild. Doing it this way all it really establishes is who is the most one dimensional.

Since Surfer isn't outgunned and the debate is still going on this is a valid thread.

Keep in mind that without considering weaknesses we can actually gauge their feats as if they were generic instead of depending and defining the battle around weaknesses. This opens a range of strategies and possibilities that are better explored than dismissed for the sake of "fairness".

^ So Superman's magic weakness is also non-existent here?

Originally posted by Nihilist
He knows Thor can take his punches, Surfer aint breaking character at all, he has used weakness exploitation how many times in his history? .

Not that this is relevant to this thread, but the question of how many times has surfer weakness exploitation is something that is contingent upon the amount of enemies he faces with obviously exploitable weaknesses like superman (very few). however if that question implies the question of how many times surfer has used his pc in an exotic way to get the win then quite a few times actually.

Of the top of my head: Spiderman twice (encasement, molecular manipulation), Daredevil (encasement), Hulk twice (energy drain), Genis vell (board entrapment), Johnny storm (molecular manipulation), Fantastic four (molecular manipulation, psychic attacks, levitation), Medusa (life force drain), Sympira (power stripping), Skaar (power or energy stripping), T and A ( manipulation of an external energy source), Firelord (energy absorption and overload), Lunatik (molecular manipulation), Obliterator (molecular manip), Quasimodo (turned him to stone), In thy Name monster (astral plane attack), Wonderman (manipulated internal ionic energy) Vision (manipulated internal electrical frequency) etc etc.

Now obviously given this thread some of the aforemetioned ways to win would be invalid (not all though). Point is he uses his PC in ways other than just punching and blasting more than enough for it to be in character especially when the "fighting to best of ability" clause is inserted.

Yeah...



...and Surfer still wins.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ So Superman's magic weakness is also non-existent here?


Yes.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yes.

So only one person get a benefit while the other 2 doesn't?

Originally posted by carver9
So only one person get a benefit while the other 2 doesn't?

That's why this person would take the slight majority. With weaknesses it's about even.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
That's why this person would take the slight majority. With weaknesses it's about even.

I would still give Thor the majority but overall, its not fair. I guess this shows just how much Surfer and Thor is above him since they need no handicaps to make it a fight.

I'm still giving Thor the majority even though Bently is riding something serious.

.

Thor and Surfer can hit a 100 times in a second as well.

Superman gets hit all the time by people slower than Thor. Also show me Superman hitting someone on Thor's level with anywhere near 100 punches per second.

.

.

.

Originally posted by Dizzlerx
thats called cis you idiot. which doesnt hold any relevance in battle forums. its the same reason why wolverine was able to blitz thor before.

It's not CIS. Superman either has the ability and he uses it, or he doesn't. I know Superman has super-speed, but I've never seen him throw more than half a dozen punches in a row.

Originally posted by Dizzlerx
no they cant, neither have ever done this before.

I know they haven't and neither has Superman but since it sounds good to me... Thor punches Superman 1000 per second while making himself some grape koolaid.

Guys, please don't respond to obvious socks.

Good Fight Thor wins.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, please don't respond to obvious socks. Reported for accusing someone of being a sock. biscuits

Originally posted by illadelph12
Yeah...



...and Surfer still wins. I still say it is a toss up between Thor or Surfer.

I honestly believe if these 3 fought 900 times, each would win 300 battles depending on the day.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
That's why this person would take the slight majority. With weaknesses it's about even. So even with his weakness it's an even split ? LOL.

Originally posted by Bentley
Since Surfer isn't outgunned and the debate is still going on this is a valid thread.

Keep in mind that without considering weaknesses we can actually gauge their feats as if they were generic instead of depending and defining the battle around weaknesses. This opens a range of strategies and possibilities that are better explored than dismissed for the sake of "fairness".
If the point is to see who the best flat out melee brawler is, then I'd have to go with Thor. He's been brawling with herald class opponents and often winning for thousands of years.
If the point is to see which character would have the best strategy, then weakness exploitation is certainly within character for Silver Surfer and he is probably the one I would pick. Mentioning it was enough to keep Gladiator in line.
If the point is to eliminate a characters invulnerabilties (except for greatest invulnerability, his writers) while simultaneously handicapping the other two in an effort give said character an easy victory, then I would have to pick Superman.

I think, honestly that Superman proved already that he should be trans, that's why I give the others equal chances with weakness exploits. Without they lose, but both Surfer and Thor are the high end of the herald level and near trans themselves.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think, honestly that Superman proved already that he should be trans, that's why I give the others equal chances with weakness exploits. Without they lose, but both Surfer and Thor are the high end of the herald level and near trans themselves.

Haha what? That's a pretty stupid thing to say.

If you assume Superman's mystical vulnerability is in play against Thor, he goes from definitely losing to getting his *ss completely stomped depending on how much play the vulnerability gets. Busiek didn't write a particularly powerful Thor, ignored the magical vulnerability and still had Thor push Superman to his limit. I'd also like to point out that Thor fought like a brick; Clark used a much bigger chunk of his offensive powers in comparison to Thor.

I think it's a safe bet that anyone giving Clark more than 6/10 against Thor -no weakness taken into account- is wrong.

Seriously, the notion that Surfer/Thor need to exploit weakness to gain an advantage is silly.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd also like to point out that Thor fought like a brick; Clark used a much bigger chunk of his offensive powers in comparison to Thor.
that's cuz clark is far smarter than thor

Originally posted by Starscream M
that's cuz clark is far smarter than thor Based on what ?

Originally posted by Starscream M
that's cuz clark is far smarter than thor

Not really. He does use his powers intelligently more often however. At least he makes more out of his abilities. On the other hand, I'd argue that Thor is noticeably more powerful -supported even by JLA/Avengers- and is capable of far more in regards to versatility. As a result, he comes off as less competent, but writers have to limit him to write stories. Busiek did it more so than any other writer than I can think of.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what ? based on their entire history?

also the fact that superman has superintelligence, a fact often overlooked while thor is...let's just say, he's no einstein

Originally posted by Starscream M
based on their entire history?

also the fact that superman has superintelligence, a fact often overlooked while thor is...let's just say, he's no einstein

Were we not discussing combat?

Anyways, Busiek reintroduced Clark's superhuman processing abilities -I always lol'd at how he went out of his way to limit Thor but brought that back- but he's no genius. Not in the same vein as true geniuses like Reed or even Luthor.

For the record, Thor's pretty intelligent.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not really. He does use his powers intelligently more often however. At least he makes more out of his abilities. On the other hand, I'd argue that Thor is noticeably more powerful -supported even by JLA/Avengers- and is capable of far more in regards to versatility. As a result, he comes off as less competent, but writers have to limit him to write stories. Busiek did it more so than any other writer than I can think of. Why would you say not really, and then not only post nothing that supports your argument, but further back the opposite side?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Were we not discussing combat?

Anyways, Busiek reintroduced Clark's superhuman processing abilities -I always lol'd at how he went out of his way to limit Thor but brought that back- but he's no genius. Not in the same vein as true geniuses like Reed or even Luthor.

For the record, Thor's pretty intelligent. superman I suspect could actually hold his own in discussing complex equations and calculations with a luthor or a doom...after all, his mind is more powerful than the best supercomputer, so in certain areas he's actually smarter than luthor and doom...of course his morality limits the use of his intellect

and this is battle, but intelligence is important factor in a fight. superman is more likely to assess and change up his strategies whereas thor is more likely to rely on tried and true tactics.

Originally posted by Starscream M
based on their entire history?

also the fact that superman has superintelligence, a fact often overlooked while thor is...let's just say, he's no einstein Thor is very intelligent and very battle hardened. There's a huge difference between genius intelligence and being savvy during a battle. Thor was undersold in the crossover and still barely lost.

Superman's also nowhere near a doom or reed intellect but it doesn't matter as neither of these three imo have the battle experience or battle savvy.

As for the thread, this is unfair for the Thor/Surfer side, since you're practically taking away the main debatable methods through which they can win, which is weakness exploitation, and further enhancing the method through which Superman can, for which they really have no answer when used at full potential - speed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A smart guy like you can't figure it out?

I strongly disagree with the notion that Clark is a far smarter combatant. The fact that he brawls 95% of the time pretty much destroys that. I do however believe that Clark fights intelligently more often than Thor but at the same time, Clark gets limited less as he has a much smaller array of exotic powers to draw from in comparison to Thor. You're playing the semantics game, and saying that while you agree with the notion that Superman is smarter, the "far" part was the one that bothered you?

Which still doesn't take away from the point that Clark is portrayed as the smarter combatant.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha what? That's a pretty stupid thing to say.

If you assume Superman's mystical vulnerability is in play against Thor, he goes from definitely losing to getting his *ss completely stomped depending on how much play the vulnerability gets. Busiek didn't write a particularly powerful Thor, ignored the magical vulnerability and still had Thor push Superman to his limit. I'd also like to point out that Thor fought like a brick; Clark used a much bigger chunk of his offensive powers in comparison to Thor.

I think it's a safe bet that anyone giving Clark more than 6/10 against Thor -no weakness taken into account- is wrong.

Seriously, the notion that Surfer/Thor need to exploit weakness to gain an advantage is silly.

facepalm

Superman is vulnerable to magic and red sun radiation and kryptonite, but at his best it isn't an autowin like it was some years ago. We already saw how Thor stomp his ass . His limits were still higher then Thor it seems, as he was beaten by the most powerful avangers left and still get up at the same time as Thor. Get over it. Thor lost.
Superman isn't invulnerable to magic but he resists it pretty well at his best, and he is much much faster then Thor. That's why I would give them a split in a all out fight. And Superman didn't use everything, like most of the time, he didn't use his speed. Anyway.

A safe bet, heh sleepy

In your opinion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Clark is not a far smarter fighter than Thor. Glad to see you disagree only on the magnitude of how much smarter than Thor Superman is, and now whether or not he is.

Originally posted by zeel
partially agree with you, surfer needs weakness exploitation to beat supes. However thor wont. Thor has the tools to take down supes ,as well as supes had the tools to take down thor.
I partially agree. Surfer doesn't need weakness exploitation to beat Superman. It would just be the quickest and most efficient strategy. I'd like to pick Thor in this based of his combat experience. He's been doing this thousands of years longer than the other two. However, the last time I saw him beat Surfer was in "Blood and Thunder", and back then he needed the bloodrage powerup to do it.

I agree with the people arguing Thor vs Superman... Surfer wins here

It's really down to who comes in second

Bump.

This goes something like this.

https://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/34932829_Action_Comics_2016-_980-019.jpg https://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/34932830_Action_Comics_2016-_980-020.jpg

mmm

Surfer is not beating any of these characters under these stips.
He becomes a normal blaster. His blasts do nothing to either.
He has a glass jaw though. A hammer shot or punch from Superman would put him down for a moment.

Superman would win this easily. His speed and reflexes are far above Thor's. His strength is far above Thor's.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Bump.

This goes something like this.

https://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/34932829_Action_Comics_2016-_980-019.jpg https://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/34932830_Action_Comics_2016-_980-020.jpg

mmm
What happened here? Is this supposed to be impressive?

Supertank wins here
Second place goes to Thor
Surfer gets last place

Superman stomps, Surfer gets oneshotted, Thor 2 shorted.

No one is getting one or two shotted here.

What happened to this forum? We used to have great to decent debates back in the day, now it just meh - .. Supes one shot everyone ...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
What happened here? Is this supposed to be impressive?

It's nothing. Completely nothing.

Originally posted by Ambient
What happened to this forum? We used to have great to decent debates back in the day, now it just meh - .. Supes one shot everyone ...
It was Surfer who was oneshotting everyone back then though.

Originally posted by carver9
It's nothing. Completely nothing.

Originally posted by carver9
It's nothing. Completely nothing.
Haven't read it, but I'll check it out.