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H2H only. Explanations please

Slade Wilson. I feel he's physically superior to Rogers across the board without taking into consideration his healing factor.

Slade Wilson. He beat Batman with ease I just can't see Cap replicating.

Captain America via his + 1 over opponent power.

Cap wins.

Better feats and better fights.

This would be epic, but I think Slade takes it.

dunno think cap might take it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Slade Wilson. He beat Batman with ease I just can't see Cap replicating.
With ease? He could barly walk after there fight and got his ass beat down by common thugs, he was so hurt............. Not to mention the location the fight took place, favored DS........

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
With ease? He could barly walk after there fight and got his ass beat down by common thugs, he was so hurt............. Not to mention the location the fight took place, favored DS........

The location of Gotham City rooftops favored Deathstroke?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The location of Gotham City rooftops favored Deathstroke?
yes on a small ledge with no room to maneuver would favor the stronger, more durable,but less skilled opponent.

I dunno. But I can't wait for Slades new series to come out. Everybody go get that sumbitch.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
yes on a small ledge with no room to maneuver would favor the stronger, more durable,but less skilled opponent.

I would still say the fight being anywhere in Gotham favored Batman. Not to mention Batman was the one who kept pursuing Slade and started the conflict in the first place.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I would still say the fight being anywhere in Gotham favored Batman. Not to mention Batman was the one who kept pursuing Slade and started the conflict in the first place.
Fight being in gothem is irrlevent, it does not give him some magical powers. The fight took place on a small ledge with little room to manuaver, that with out a doubt favors the stronger, more durable and less skilled opponent. Not even sure how you could debate that.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Fight being in gothem is irrlevent, it does not give him some magical powers. The fight took place on a small ledge with little room to manuaver, that with out a doubt favors the stronger, more durable and less skilled opponent. Not even sure how you could debate that.

Besides the fact that Batman had been trailing Slade for some time? And he kept doggedly attempting to chase down Slade and pursuing him when it was clear that Slade had no interest whatsoever in fighting Batman?

The fact is that Batman knew what the hell he was getting himself into and when push came to shove, Slade took him down a notch. The fight being on a narrow ledge likely didn't even factor into the depiction of Wilson beating the crap out of him. You don't need to make excuses for why Batman lost. Batman didn't.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Besides the fact that Batman had been trailing Slade for some time? And he kept doggedly attempting to chase down Slade and pursuing him when it was clear that Slade had no interest whatsoever in fighting Batman?

The fact is that Batman knew what the hell he was getting himself into and when push came to shove, Slade took him down a notch. The fight being on a narrow ledge likely didn't even factor into the depiction of Wilson beating the crap out of him. You don't need to make excuses for why Batman lost. Batman didn't.


It not an exuse it a fact. Small surface would favor the stronger and more durable opponent. You trying to discredit this notion by saying Batman tracked Slade down is irrelevent. Batman still fought him in h2h combat on a small surface. That is a fact. That scenerio favored DS, fact. Yea Batman lose and? Does not change the fact even with advantage in location the fight took place in DS, still got so beat up by Batman that he could barly stand.

SO this idea that DS beat down batman easily, is straight up BS.

but please post the scans, so everyone can see.

^ Gladly.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Deathstroke The Terminator #7

Deathstroke Vs Batman

Batman contends for a moment, then is savagely beaten. Then he comes back for one last sucker, and gets KOed permamanently.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke07page019.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke07page020.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke07page021.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke07page022.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke07page023.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke07page024.jpg

Deathstroke has been beaten and drugged into hallucination, he still overpowers and beats a group of men(batman intervenes in the end)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke09page02_03.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke09page04.jpghttp://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/th_Deathstroke09page05.jpg

Not sure where you're getting this "narrow ledge" argument from. I mean, c'mon. Considering Batman is a phenomenal athelete and has grappling hooks as well as intimate knowledge of Gotham City, the idea of a fighting on a precarious location such as that seriously hindering him is ridiculous. Deathstroke was and is physically superior to Batman, which enabled him to beat the shit out of Batman and leave him KTFO where as Slade just had an injured arm.

Twisting this into some kind of excuse for Batman only for Steve Rogers' benefit to discredit Deathstroke is disingenuous.

.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Besides the fact that Batman had been trailing Slade for some time? And he kept doggedly attempting to chase down Slade and pursuing him when it was clear that Slade had no interest whatsoever in fighting Batman?

The fact is that Batman knew what the hell he was getting himself into and when push came to shove, Slade took him down a notch. The fight being on a narrow ledge likely didn't even factor into the depiction of Wilson beating the crap out of him. You don't need to make excuses for why Batman lost. Batman didn't. I Agree

Fact: Slade did lose this encounter.

Another Fact: Slade was not even mildly interested in contending with Batman, and was otherwise preoccupied. Despite this, he still kicked Bruce's ass casually for the majority of the fight.

Yet Another Fact: Steve Rogers COULD NOT replicate such a performance.

Comparable stats and more skill = Steve winning IMO.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I Agree

Fact: Slade did lose this encounter.

Another Fact: Slade was not even mildly interested in contending with Batman, and was otherwise preoccupied. Despite this, he still kicked Bruce's ass casually for the majority of the fight.

Yet Another Fact: Steve Rogers COULD NOT replicate such a performance. I was refering to their fight inh Detective comics 708 in this post BTW, not the one posted above.

Either way, i dont see how Steve has that much of a skill advantage. He definitely doesnt have any physical advantage.

I disagree, IMO Cap is around Batman level in skill....that puts him above DS.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I disagree, IMO Cap is around Batman level in skill....that puts him above DS. hes also around Bruce level physically. Closer to him than Slade.

Originally posted by namorsubby
hes also around Bruce level physically. Closer to him than Slade.
Thats not true at all.


In fact capt has superior strength feats.

Originally posted by namorsubby
hes also around Bruce level physically. Closer to him than Slade.

Not according to the feats I've seen.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Not according to the feats I've seen.
edit nvm your talking to scubby

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
edit nvm your talking to scubby

Yea...I've edited my post to show his quote.

I really dont see how people can keep trying to potray Steve as even to Slade physically. What about his HF that renders him immortal? Also the reflexes. And hes as strong as twenty men. Ive personally traded feats with DG concerning Bruce's and Caps physical stats, and I honestly cant even see how hes even slighty superior to Batman physically, much less Slade.

No doubt opinions will stay the same, but when I see Slade casually put a beating on Bruce while not even really trying, even with the gap in skill due to his physical advantage, im simply not buying the whole "cap and slade are equal physically" notion, period.

Slade

Originally posted by namorsubby
I really dont see how people can keep trying to potray Steve as even to Slade physically. What about his HF that renders him immortal? Also the reflexes. And hes as strong as twenty men. Ive personally traded feats with DG concerning Bruce's and Caps physical stats, and I honestly cant even see how hes even slighty superior to Batman physically, much less Slade.

No doubt opinions will stay the same, but when I see Slade casually put a beating on Bruce while not even really trying, even with the gap in skill due to his physical advantage, im simply not buying the whole "cap and slade are equal physically" notion, period.

What strength feats do you have in mind?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What strength feats do you have in mind? If youre refering to strength feats for Slade......I have a thread you can check out.

Also I just wanted to mention that ive seen just about every single strength feat Cap has, courtesy of a member who intended to do a thread for cap.

That thread wouldn't happen to include Slade carrying that cable would it?

Because, IIRC that story was of a future Slade and was marked as a Elseworlds.

Captain America wins, even a card carrying Deathstroke fanboy and everyone's favorite poster longpig eventually admitted it after years of debate. Namorsubby is in the same place our good friend longpig was four years ago, he had knowledge of Slade but knew nothing about Cap. Four years from now, after Subby has read some Cap appearances he'll come to the same realization that anyone with a passing familiarity with both characters already knows, Captain America wins.

Captain and i'm sure there are plenty of threads just like this with explanations.

Slade should take this 4real. Cap's skill level isn't that far from Slade. And Slade is faster and stronger. I say this because he ran and leaped through spinning fan blades without a cut. And Lex Luthor couldn't over power Slade in his power-suit. Slade's HF is also better and by far. Deathstroke has and can withstand far more punishment. Steve is close to Slade, true. But since I read both of them. Imo Slade seems like he was crated to be better than Cap all around as a character.

The same power suit that Lex uses to fight Superman?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America wins, even a card carrying Deathstroke fanboy and everyone's favorite poster longpig eventually admitted it after years of debate. Namorsubby is in the same place our good friend longpig was four years ago, he had knowledge of Slade but knew nothing about Cap. Four years from now, after Subby has read some Cap appearances he'll come to the same realization that anyone with a passing familiarity with both characters already knows, Captain America wins. Lol you guys are so full of it. Always the same routine.anyone who disagrees with you or has a different interpretation either is simply bias or knows nothing of the character. Truth is, I could make a thread for Cap with damn near every feat hes ever done......starting @ his first appearance in the golden age.

You couldnt prove with feats that steve is superior physically to Bruce(better men have tried)......much less an ACTUAL META.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The same power suit that Lex uses to fight Superman?

Tbh I don't know. I read the comic and it never said what version of the suit it was or even if there are other suits.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Tbh I don't know. I read the comic and it never said what version of the suit it was or even if there are other suits.

Well, what strength feats did Lex have while using that suit?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Well, what strength feats did Lex have while using that suit?

In that book there's really nothing I would bring up in Lex's favor and I can't say I know them off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
In that book there's really nothing I would bring up in Lex's favor and I can't say I know them off the top of my head.

Well, if it's the one that Lex uses to fight Superman... wouldn't you be basically claiming that Slade has cl 100 strength, since Lex couldn't overpower him?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Well, if it's the one that Lex uses to fight Superman... wouldn't you be basically claiming that Slade has cl 100 strength, since Lex couldn't overpower him?

No Because I know Slade's not class 100...

Originally posted by Marvelknight
No Because I know Slade's not class 100...

Then why are you basing Slade being stronger on a feat that would require cl 100 strength?

Theirs plenty of feats/statements on panel/ratings that cleary put slade over cap in every physical category, not to mention just overall formiddability. All of which will just be tossed out for whatever reason any die hard cap/marvel fan to conjure up. If its too impressive, its PIS.(even if hes done it his entire history). If its anywhere close to debateable, it will be opposed. Theyll even try to tell you which kind of impressive feats you can use to debate. like if its strength, he has to be lifting or breaking etc.......koing or hurting the superdurable does count. Ive been through this many many times with the same few......it wouldnt matter what you showed them, because its not really about feats.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Theirs plenty of feats/statements on panel/ratings that cleary put slade over cap in every physical category, not to mention just overall formiddability. All of which will just be tossed out for whatever reason any die hard cap/marvel fan to conjure up. If its too impressive, its PIS.(even if hes done it his entire history). If its anywhere close to debateable, it will be opposed. Theyll even try to tell you which kind of impressive feats you can use to debate. like if its strength, he has to be lifting or breaking etc.......koing or hurting the superdurable does count. Ive been through this many many times with the same few......it wouldnt matter what you showed them, because its not really about feats.

What strength feats do you have in mind?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then why are you basing Slade being stronger on a feat that would require cl 100 strength?

I'm not saying Slade has 100 ton strength, Silent Master. imo I don't even think that Lex could even use that power-suit to take on Superman head on in any real strength contest.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What strength feats do you have in mind? Ignoring the fact that Slade is as strong as twenty men and has SUPERhuman strength while cap does not......

I have an entire thread. I took the time to post all of those feats somewhere for your viewing pleasure. do i really have to drag them here? Id post instances but i cant copy. Im posting from a phone and have no computer at the moment......its not even a smart phone.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Ignoring the fact that Slade is as strong as twenty men and has SUPERhuman strength while cap does not......

I have an entire thread. I took the time to post all of those feats somewhere for your viewing pleasure. do i really have to drag them here? Id post instances but i cant copy. Im posting from a phone and have no computer at the moment......its not even a smart phone.

If we are using statements as proof, I'm fairly sure that Cap has been stated to have the strength of half a platoon before.

Cap has superhuman strength.

Show me the scan then.....my statements in my thread.

And no....humans dont have superhuman strength.Cap is peak HUMAN. I really dont see how anyway can say that and actually believe it. But 2 or 3 posters have.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Show me the scan then.....my statements in my thread.

And no....humans dont have superhuman strength.Cap is peak HUMAN. I really dont see how anyway can say that and actually believe it. But 2 or 3 posters have. No, Cap is superhuman.

While I think Slade wins, I definitely consider Steve to be superhuman.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Show me the scan then.....my statements in my thread.

And no....humans dont have superhuman strength.Cap is peak HUMAN. I really dont see how anyway can say that and actually believe it. But 2 or 3 posters have.

All I know is that it was stated in the Invaders.

Steve has been interpreted as superhuman by ed brubaker. His own interpretation of "peak of human potential" has spread like wildfire and become comic law in the mind of some.

With that being said, according to original intent and normal potrayal, Cap is not superhuman.

This is where some would say "but then why does he do all those things that humans cant actual do on a consistent basis Namorsubby".....while theres actually a simple explanation for that. Its because whats humanly posssible in comicbooks has never ever been a reality in.....well, reality. Name any grade a well known human superhero fromany comic company who doesnt perform some "superhuman" feat every issue. If caps a meta, batmans a meta. Nightwing too. Might as well add punisher, elektra, etc etc etc. They all do what we cant in real life.

Cap isn't superhuman

Nope, he's superhuman.

Originally posted by Silent Master
All I know is that it was stated in the Invaders. I believe a platoon can be as small as 8 men(maybe 16). I looked it up once when someone brought this up. There are normal men in the world that have a bench press max equal to 4 average men.

A platoon is between 16 and 50 men.

So we have a definite statement vs an indefinite one. one that might even have been hyperbole. One that has not even been presented.

The Slade statment isn't a definite statement either, as the strength level of the men aren't mentioned.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Slade statment isn't a definite statement either, as the strength level of the men aren't mentioned. The average strength level of a man is an easily accesible statistic. Why would they even mention that? In caps statement you cant even be suree of how many men. Ive read that entire series anyway. IIRC it was hyperbole.

So tell me, what is the average strength level of men in the DC universe?

135-185 lbs bench press.

Originally posted by namorsubby
135-185 lbs bench press.

Cite your source.

All i know is its in some dc book i think.lol


kidding.....thats the bench of the average man.

Originally posted by namorsubby
All i know is its in some dc book i think.lol


kidding.....thats the bench of the average man.

In the real world maybe, but DC isn't the real world.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Lol you guys are so full of it. Always the same routine.anyone who disagrees with you or has a different interpretation either is simply bias or knows nothing of the character. Truth is, I could make a thread for Cap with damn near every feat hes ever done......starting @ his first appearance in the golden age.

You couldnt prove with feats that steve is superior physically to Bruce(better men have tried)......much less an ACTUAL META.

Dude, you've been saying in this - and other similar threads - that someone "who knows a lot about Cap," showed you some scans. Now you are saying that no, you didn't mean that, what you actually meant is that you've read a lot of Cap? Make up your mind or stick with one story. At best you have second hand knowledge of the character, at worst you have none and simply made up a story.

Let me know when Bruce stops a speeding car by grabbing the bumper with one hand and a lamp post with the other, or when he causally walks around with a telephone post over his shoulder with the transformers still on it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dude, you've been saying in this - and other similar threads - that someone "who knows a lot about Cap," showed you some scans. Now you are saying that no, you didn't mean that, what you actually meant is that you've read a lot of Cap? Make up your mind or stick with one story. At best you have second hand knowledge of the character, at worst you have none and simply made up a story.

Let me know when Bruce stops a speeding car by grabbing the bumper with one hand and a lamp post with the other, or when he causally walks around with a telephone post over his shoulder with the transformers still on it. I said that dg showed me nearly every cap strength feat. Then i said i already know about cap. Both are true. How in the hell did you even manage to twist my words like that? I never once said that i didnt already know about him and was only shown scans so stop being a moron.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I said that dg showed me nearly every cap strength feat. Then i said i already know about cap. Both are true. How in the hell did you even manage to twist my words like that? I never once said that i didnt already know about him and was only shown scans so stop being a moron.

If you knew anything about Cap in your own right, then why even mention "some guy totally showed me Cap scans!" in the first place, when it makes you look uninformed? Oh I know! Because you are a liar.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If you knew anything about Cap in your own right, then why even mention "some guy totally showed me Cap scans!" in the first place, when it makes you look uninformed? Oh I know! Because you are a liar. I said he showed me strength feats and he did. That is all i said. You purposly used your own colorful brand of interpretation to make it seem like something else entirely just to instigate a confrontation. This is why you cant even debate with posters such as yourself and BH. Why dont you quit with this idoicy and take an actual stance.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I said the showed me strength feats and he did. That is all i said. You purposly used your own colorful brand of interpretation to make it seem like something else entirely just to intigate a confrontation. This is why you cant even debate with posters such as yourself and BH. Why dont you quitn with this idoicy and take an actual stance.

Srank can't debate with himself?!

Originally posted by namorsubby
I said the showed me strength feats and he did. That is all i said. You purposly used your own colorful brand of interpretation to make it seem like something else entirely just to intigate a confrontation. This is why you cant even debate with posters such as yourself and BH. Why dont you quitn with this idoicy and take an actual stance.

Actually, the reason I can't debate with myself, is because generally I agree with my own point of view.

You can back track all you'd like, and try to cover your ass, but you and I both know whats up. Frankly, I've been down this road before, with a Deathstroke fan more knowledgeable and fanatic than you. He claimed to be knowledgeable on Captain America too... and he wasn't either. The moment he bothered to sit down and read some Cap, he came to the same conclusion virtually everyone else does. Do yourself a favour and read some Captain America, or find another debate to lose.

Whatever stilt.......no one can argue with someone who uses tactics such as those. He knew exactly what i said, but he twisted it into something else.Thats not debate.....its baiting.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Actually, the reason I can't debate with myself, is because generally I agree with my own point of view.

You can back track all you'd like, and try to cover your ass, but you and I both know whats up. I've been down this road before, with a Deathstroke fan more knowledgeable and fanatic than you. He claimed to be knowledgeable on Captain America too... and he wasn't either. The moment he bothered to sit down and read some Cap, he came to the same conclusion virtually everyone else does. See, more colorful intepretation. I never said that i read every cap comic. I said i could make a thread with nearly every feat. Not because i have them all or have read them all. But because i can find the issues and retrieve scans from them. Ive done so on numerous respect threads. Stop twisting what im saying. Im not backtracking at all. Im saying one thing and youre infering nonsense based on those simple statements.

Originally posted by namorsubby
See, more colorful intepretation. I never said that i read every cap comic. I said i could make a thread with nearly every feat. Not because i have them all or have read them all. But because i can find the issues and retrieve scans from them. Ive done so on numerous respect threads. Stop trying to twisting what im saying. Im not backtracking at all. Im saying one thing and youre infering nonsense based on those simple statements.

Anyone could make an respect thread for any character that contains "nearly every feat" - we all have the internet - but the implication of you saying that, is that you are extremely knowledgeable on the character... which you aren't. That is like me saying "I could fix your car," and then when you bring me your car I tell you "well, I meant could fix it if I learned to fix cars..." Could you create a Captain America respect thread? Sure. You could do virtually anything if you put in the time and energy, but your potentially ability to create a Captain America respect thread if you wanted is of no relevance. If you want to download every Captain America appearance, and compile all his feats into a respect thread then go ahead and do it. We need a good Captain America respect thread, and you need to educate yourself on the character.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Anyone could make an respect thread for any character that contains "nearly every feat" - we all have the internet - but the implication of you saying that, is that you are extremely knowledgeable on the character... which you aren't. That is like me saying "I could fix your car," and then when you bring me your car I tell you "well, I meant could fix it if I learned to fix cars..." Could you create a Captain America respect thread? Sure. You could do virtually anything if you put in the time and energy, but your potentially ability to create a Captain America respect thread if you wanted is of no relevance. If you want to download every Captain America appearance, and compile all his feats into a respect thread then go ahead and do it. We need a good Captain America respect thread, and you need to educate yourself on the character. you need to quit purposely insinuating false meanings and actually give a reason why you think the way you do concerning this matchup. In other words, actually debate.

This is a perfect example of what someone who is fanatical about a character would do. I oppose your opinion, so instead of providing some form of evidence against me on your behalf, you dream up false implications just to annoy me. I know cap. I dont comment or make vs matches for characters that i dont know. Being shown scans doesnt mean that i dont know a character. Just because i say i can make a thread doesnt mean that im claiming to have every issue hes appeared in.But of course you know that. Youre justing being a clown.

I created a Slade Wilson respect thread with every appearance and he loses.

I also made a namorsubby respect thread with nearly everyone of his posts.

He's usually wrong.

See, at least these^ type of clowns are humorous. they also dont attempt to maintain the illusion of a coherent arguement.

Your moms a clown!

Originally posted by Silent Master
Comparable stats and more skill = Steve winning IMO.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by namorsubby
you need to quit purposely insinuating false meanings and actually give a reason why you think the way you do concerning this matchup. In other words, actually debate.

This is a perfect example of what someone who is fanatical about a character would do. I oppose your opinion, so instead of providing some form of evidence against me on your behalf, you dream up false implications just to annoy me. I know cap. I dont comment or make vs matches for characters that i dont know. Being shown scans doesnt mean that i dont know a character. Just because i say i can make a thread doesnt mean that im claiming to have every issue hes appeared in.But of course you know that. Youre justing being a clown.

The argument has already been made, numerous times across numerous threads. This isn't even the first Captain America v Deathstroke thread of the year on KMC. What it comes down to is this. They are physically virtually mirror images of each other, but Captain America is significantly more skilled.

Lol, just what i was saying. Hes a clown that makes me laugh......which is good. Youre a slighty more belligerent that just annoys me......not good.

Anywho, i guess ill attempt to "rerail" that which has been purposely been derailed.

Id go with Slade due to his physical superiorty and only slight skill disadvantage. He is clearly superior to The elite peak humans of DC, hence the casual beatings he has given them. He is clearly meta, due to his HF which renders him immortal, his instantaneous reflexes, his senses which are increased 1000 fold according to him, and his strength, which is equal to that of 20 men. Cap, not so much. If anyone disagrees, that is fine. That does not mean you have to exercise your frustratin upon me. Instead, you could to debate, if you wish, or you could simply put "cap ftw".

SLADE FTW

edit:

yes, they are a mirror image physically.......minus the healing factor, senses, reflexes, etc.

What makes you think Captain America has the stat disadvantage?

I've seen someone literally go feat for feat on another board, completely disproving any stat edge for Deathstroke. The two characters are out of my comfort zone but I've seen enough to feel comfortable in claiming that the two are pretty much physical equals.

Hes not equal physically because he cant recover from damage anywhere close to that of which slade can. He cant react as fast. He cant sense as much. Its really not even about the strength. Theres much more to it but those parts always seemed to be ignored.

So, question to Cap supporters. Do you really, truthfully see Cap being able to tool Batman with the ease that Deathstroke has in the past? Do you truly believe that Cap would have the luxury to treat Batman like an annoying pest?

Because I can give two shits if Cap has lifted more when we have a direct comparison with Slade trouncing someone who is to any reasonable person a peer to Cap. Someone (Batman) who has comparable feats in most areas to Cap, someone who's higher end WTF showings (which I think personally we should just leave out) are superior to Cap's.

Exactly what I wwas saying to begin with^. If you believe slade loses to cap when hes straight up handled bruce despite his skill disadvantage, then you must believe steve could do so with even greater ease, right? Slade clearly physically superior to bruce as seen in their encounters, but steve is not whether you cite feats or their crossover encounters.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Lol, just what i was saying. Hes a clown that makes me laugh......which is good. Youre a slighty more belligerent that just annoys me......not good.

Anywho, i guess ill attempt to "rerail" that which has been purposely been derailed.

Id go with Slade due to his physical superiorty and only slight skill disadvantage. He is clearly superior to The elite peak humans of DC, hence the casual beatings he has given them. He is clearly meta, due to his HF which renders him immortal, his instantaneous reflexes, his senses which are increased 1000 fold according to him, and his strength, which is equal to that of 20 men. Cap, not so much. If anyone disagrees, that is fine. That does not mean you have to exercise your frustratin upon me. Instead, you could to debate, if you wish, or you could simply put "cap ftw".

SLADE FTW

edit:

yes, they are a mirror image physically.......minus the healing factor, senses, reflexes, etc.


You know Captain America has healed from a bullet wound to the head in like 15 minutes and his reflexes are also off the charts? The only thing you might be right about is senses, but while Steve might not have the same level of hearing or smell, and his vision might not be as acute, Captain America sees the world in slow motion, to the point that he can visually track bullets in flight... which more than balances the scales. His healing factor might not be as prominent as Slade's but it works just as fast, and there is little evidence - if any - to suggest that Slade's reflexes are faster.

And yes Omega Vision, Captain America would beat down Batman easier than Deathstroke does, and he wouldn't be hurting in the next issue either.

Slades HF is far superior.I honestly cant believe how you even try to pass caps off as comparable.
Slade senses are far superior and he also sees the world in slow motion.its in my thread.check it out.
Slade reflexes are instantaneous and obviously superior to caps via feats. Captain marvel, flashes, wonder woman, etc.
On top of all that slade can process a scenario much better, and given that he reacts quicker, that will be a huge advantage.

If you really believe cap could trounce bats in such a fashion or worse you are just plum crazy. Apparently the makers of their crossovers didnt share the same belief.

Cap wins for sure. 10/10.

He's superior for sure.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap wins for sure. 10/10.

He's superior for sure.
10/10? Really?

10/10?? Yeah ok.....

Originally posted by namorsubby
Slades HF is far superior.I honestly cant believe how you even try to pass caps off as comparable.
Slade senses are far superior and he also sees the world in slow motion.its in my thread.check it out.
Slade reflexes are instantaneous and obviously superior to caps via feats. Captain marvel, flashes, wonder woman, etc.
On top of all that slade can process a scenario much better, and given that he reacts quicker, that will be a huge advantage.

If you really believe cap could trounce bats in such a fashion or worse you are just plum crazy. Apparently the makers of their crossovers didnt share the same belief.

Because Captain America's top end healing feast are comparable to Slades? Admittedly they aren't consistent, but in a scan war a person could make the case that Captain America heals just as fast as Slade. I'd give Slade the edge purely due to persistent use, but really neither of them heal fast nor consistently enough for it to be a notable advantage in a form match though anyway.

I'm aware. But there is a different between Captain America having a documented ability to see bullets in slow motion, and Winter Green's journal saying "Slade says he can even see faster!"

Slade hitting Flash, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel Jr. is PIS on the same level of absurdity as Captain America one shotting the Hulk with a punch. Luckily the Flash spends most his time stupidly running into Deathstroke's attacks apposed to Slade actually hitting him (and depending on the writer the speed force increases the Flash's reaction time to match his speed, so he isn't constantly experiencing the world at the speed of light, making it theoretically possibly to get the better of him if he isn't going all out) so those can be explained away by Flash being a moron, but the Wonder Woman feat is just garbage. It's one of the reason idiots in the cross genre vs thread were arguing that characters from Bleach could beat Wonder Woman, because she didn't have any actually combat speed feats and could only fly at superspeed.

Slade doesn't react faster than Captain America. It has been said that Slade has "instantaneous reflexes," but what does that even mean? It means there is no lag (well lets say virtually no lag, because none would be an impossibility), between his thought and physical reaction. Which means he reacts at the speed of thought... which is something that has been said of Captain America.... and Batman... and Daredevil... and virtually every noteworthy street level character. No obviously there is a level of ambiguity because both Slade and Captain America's thought process is significantly faster than a normal human. So we are left with an ambiguous and unquantifiable statistic. Captain America however has been stated to have 2-3x the speed and reflexes of Bucky Barnes, who is pushing peak human, which isn't ambiguous at all.

Makers of Marvel vs DC crossovers also thought that Spider-man could fight Superboy and Wolverine could beat Lobo. Batman stalemating Captain America is almost as absurd. There is a reason they aren't canon.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
10/10? Really?

Batman in Deathstroke's body vs Deathstroke h2h. What is Bruce's win percentage?

Lol your HF arguement is laughable. Name another cap hf feat besides the one you already did thats on the same level as what slade has done several times. The guy is immortal because of his hf, while cap died from gunshots and youre really sitting here trying to compare them.you say slade doesnt heal fast but he has on several occasions immediately visibly healed after being cut. To suggest caps hf is anywhere near as potent or as fast as slades is just plain ridiculous.

They both see in slow motion. Cap has no advantage there.period

Those instances arent pis when youve already been stated to have instantaneous reflexes.trying to use real world concepts to explain it away is silly.His reaction feats are betters and he is stated to be better. End of story.

Say what you wish, but there is simply no reason at all why anyone should believe that cap could casually and very easily beat batman. Not feats, not their own encounters. Not anything. Although there is a reason you should believe slade can.......because he has.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman in Deathstroke's body vs Deathstroke h2h. What is Bruce's win percentage? First you have to take away the senses, brain capacity, HF, and reflexes. Among other things.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Slade reflexes are instantaneous

Stopped right there.

The lowest slades reflexes have been stated is 10 times human level......which is still above caps. Really, theres just no winning in this department guys.lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
Lol your HF arguement is laughable. Name another cap hf feat besides the one you already did thats on the same level as what slade has done several times. The guy is immortal because of his hf, while cap died from gunshots and youre really sitting here trying to compare the.you say slade doesnt heal fast but he has on several occasions immediately visibly healed after being cut

They both see in slow motion. Cap has no advantage there.period

Those instances arent pis when youve already been stated to have instantaneous reflexes.trying to use real world concepts to explain it away is silly.His reaction feats are betters and he is stated to be better. End of story.

Say what you wish, but there is simply no reason at all why anyone should believe that cap could casually and very easily beat batman. Not feats, not their own encounters. Not anything. Although there is a reason you should believe slade can.......because he has.

Captain America was also shot up once by machine gun fire while he was in his civies, which completely leveled his car, and he was fine. He took out the shooters with half a dozen rounds in his chest and went to SHIELD for a debriefing. Remind me... what happened when Deadshot filled Deathstroke with bullets?

Captain America can see bullets in slow motion. That gives us an idea of just how much faster he sees the world then a normal human would. Slade has no such measuring stick documented, assuming the abilities are equal is just further documentation of your bias.

The speed of thought is 150mph. Even if his thought process was 1000 times faster than a normal human (and it isn't its only around 10x), Slade's instantaneous reflexes would be no where near fast enough to allow him to tag any one of those characters. It's PIS.

There is plenty of reason to believe that Captain America could causally beat Batman... it's called his complete history. Fanboys love to delude themselves into thinking that Batman and Captain America are equals, that there is little in the way of difference between the two of them... but that simply isn't the case. Captain America is a super soldier. He can run 60mph while carrying a grown man. He can stop a car dead in its tracks by grabbing it and anchoring himself. He can see bullets in slow motion. He can walk around with a telephone pole causally slung over one shoulder. He out runs bullets and has the strength of a platoon of soldiers. Captain America is Batman in the body of Deathstroke. Captain America would steam role Batman, anyone who can be impartial should be able to see that. I'm Canadian... I don't even like Captain America that much, and even I know he can beat Batman. No one is going to come to your house at take away your Batman bedsheets and break your action figures, because you were able to put aside your bias for ten seconds.

10 times above human level is not above Cap. Not even close.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Ignoring the fact that Slade is as strong as twenty men and has SUPERhuman strength while cap does not......




Last I check Slade has almost superhuman strength.

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/7120/deathstroke113.th.jpg


http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8463/whoswho02318rougher.th.jpg




While Cap has Superhuman strength as he's a one man army and has the strength of half platoon of "fighting" men. Just using your type of logic against you.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
10/10? Really?


Originally posted by Marvelknight
10/10?? Yeah ok.....



I'm just using Namorsubby logic against him. I don't really believe that and view them pretty much as equals.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
10 times above human level is not above Cap. Not even close.

Cap's reactions are at least on par with Wolverine's, and Logan can chamber and throw a punch .038 seconds. Which is 7-8 times faster than a normal humans finger tip reaction time. That means that if you were doing one of those tests on the computer where you press enter when you see a light flash, that when that light flashed... Wolverine could punch you 7-8 times full boar in the face before you could press said button. Who knows how much faster his finger tip reaction time is? Like you said, 10x human isn't above Cap. Not. Even. Close.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I'm just using Namorsubby logic against him. I don't really believe that and view them pretty much as equals.

I was going to say, I remember when you thought it was a toss up. I guess Subby pushed you too far. How odd is it that here we are, almost four years latter, and he still hasn't provided you with a strength feat?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap's reactions are at least on par with Wolverine's, and Logan can chamber and throw a punch .038 seconds. Which is 7-8 times faster than a normal humans finger tip reaction time. That means that if you were doing one of those tests on the computer where you press enter when you see a light flash, that when that light flashed... Wolverine could punch you 7-8 times full boar in the face before you could press said button. Who knows how much faster his finger tip reaction time is? Like you said, 10x human isn't above Cap. Not. Even. Close.

And that's extremely low end.

Slade for the small majority.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I was going to say, I remember when you thought it was a toss up. I guess Subby pushed you too far. How odd is it that here we are, almost four years latter, and he still hasn't provided you with a strength feat?


Indeed. Honestly I truthfully believe Slade is a evil version of Cap.


But sometimes you just gotta use the same mind set of the other. Its odd you and me usually have been at odds many times but on this subject we seem to be on the same side at least.

I feel what u r saying, namorsubby 4real. But I will say this. Steve will give Slade the fight of his life every time. And after spending more time reading his comics and getting more of a deeper sense of who he is, made me realize Steve has to be a low level superhuman to some degree.

In the "Blood Stone Hunt" story arch, Steve descended from the "flag Ship" to the ground about 20 stories high without a parachute. And took the impact from the landing without any sign of pain or stress. That feat is above peak human ability.

In "Last Will And Testament", Slade also leaped off a building from over 22 stories high, and landed on the ground without any injuries. So I would say that they are very near each other physically. But Slade displays more control overall in all of his abilities, very similar to Bruce in a way.

Slade's HF factor truly is better. he's been shot in the head and it only slowed him down. Stabbed through the chest with a sword on more than one occasion. Even had his heart sliced in two. And can fool machines into thinking he's not recovering when he really is. His muscles don't even twitch, no wasted movement. The guy ran and leaped through spinning fan blades in an air duct, while dodging gun fire without missing a beat. And as a solider, what can Steve do that Slade can't? Sure Steve has more in knowing more fighting styles. But Slade has more in reaction time, thinking, and damage soak imo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Indeed. Honestly I truthfully believe Slade is a evil version of Cap.


But sometimes you just gotta use the same mind set of the other. Its odd you and me usually have been at odds many times but on this subject we seem to be on the same side at least.

I think we are pretty much only at odds on the order of a martial skill hierarchy, and your opinion that chi is legitimate extension of skill, and having chi by default makes a character a more technically skilled fighter.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So, question to Cap supporters. Do you really, truthfully see Cap being able to tool Batman with the ease that Deathstroke has in the past? Do you truly believe that Cap would have the luxury to treat Batman like an annoying pest?

Because I can give two shits if Cap has lifted more when we have a direct comparison with Slade trouncing someone who is to any reasonable person a peer to Cap. Someone (Batman) who has comparable feats in most areas to Cap, someone who's higher end WTF showings (which I think personally we should just leave out) are superior to Cap's.

I, for one, don't see Cap beating down Batman like Slade did. If you compare just strength and durability, sure, I can see the argument for Cap and Slade being equals. Unfortunately, strength and durability aren't the only things Slade packs. His senses shit on Caps, to be frank - though Cap seeing bullets is and was a good feat for him - and Slade also has the healing factor to work toward his advantage.

I just find it odd that Deathstroke seems to be one character who is constantly accused of having a massive jobber aura and PIS heavily working in his favor and in the same breath, characters such as Batman and Cap and Logan are held to a different standard than he.

I think Rogers would ultimately beat Batman in a pure physical encounter, but he wouldn't utterly humiliate him like Slade did.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And Slade is faster and stronger.


Many Slade fans make this claim but always fail to actually prove Slade is actually stronger. And although he has nice speed feats Cap's are just as good.

Seriously Cap's healing ability is being underrated for sure. Guy is practically immortal.(thanks to ICT threads I borrowed it for here)

Healing/Recovery/immunities feats

"My metabolism doesn't let me get drunk.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6972/ca27v4.jpg
"I don't get drunk I can't."
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6588/ca16018wy2.jpg

Keeps up with Logan in drinking as they already been to 5 other bars.
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/885/wolviewx11legioncps016.jpg

John Steele who can throw jeeps like baseballs and has bullet proof skin does a elbow strike on Steve's leg. As Steve tells Beast "I heal fast".
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/3923/secretavengers09017.jpg
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7997/secretavengers09020.jpg

Cap's hands are burnt bad in the fires. They'll heal once were out of here.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9479/captainamerica23503gz0.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/983/captainamerica23504lb9.jpg

Cap got burned from alien tech. "Amazing his burns are already healing".
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8403/captainamericatowozp01zhu7.jpg

Bullet to the shoulder no worries for Cap. "I heal fast" "I'm built that way"
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8254/camedusaeffect047te3.jpg

Cap handles poison.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9079/capamericav135902roughelb5.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3644/capamericav135903rougheyz9.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7200/capamericav135904rougheme7.jpg

Was offered paramedics for being in a bad explosion. Cap's answer "not necessary"
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1355/captainamerica373p05py4.jpg

Cap takes a thrashing from Namor. Namor impressed how quickly Cap recovers.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3066/captainamerica42319yz3.jpg
(Cap was going to go another round with Namor later on)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7059/captainamerica42323bn3.jpg

A alien agent was affecting many including super humans like She-Hulk, but not Captain America.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4048/wca04914ml6.jpg

An aging formula that makes you old an die affect Cap and the Red Skull. It eventually killed off RS as he couldn't handle a fight with Cap(Red Skull didn't have a cloned body of Cap yet.) But Cap mentions the SSS is what is keeping him alive despite it rapidly aging him.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4213/captainamerica301p10wy0.jpg

A process to turn men into perfect woman was tried on Captain America and superhuman Paladin. Notice there more worried about Captain America.
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6816/captainamerica391ocd02bz0.jpg
(his mental acuity is drastically decreased but she's still worried about Cap)
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7945/captainamerica391ocd04fb8.jpg
(SSS could resist it. Near toxic levels, increase the level.)
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9431/captainamerica391ocd10ae5.jpg
(Enough sedative to kill a horse but not Cap)
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9523/captainamerica391ocd11ph8.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5682/captainamerica391ocd12kq1.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4527/captainamerica391ocd13sd1.jpg


Again a lethal virus created by the Red Skull. It killed more then 1000's and affected She Hulk badly as it put others like Scott(Cyclops) in medical care for a long time. Cap was exposed to it throughout most of Black Panthers/Ironmans fight with Skull.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/511/avengersv306806rougher.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/1853/avgrs6908ng4.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8633/avgrs6918to1.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9521/avgrs6919ik8.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7321/avgrs6920hg7.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4886/avengersv307005rougherpi0.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7585/avengersv307016roughergl9.jpg

Remember the punishment Cap took in Civil War he recovers rather quickly for his rematch with Ironman.
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/540/scan0017fm7.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8685/scan0007sv2.jpg
And hear Cap looks healthy despite what he took previous as he even has the advantage on "Extremis" Ironman. Tony's even down and puking.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4513/scan0037tb6.jpg

Bullet to the head lots of blood splattered. Steve died and healed a bullet to the head.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4069/capfalcon1310fr2.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9591/capfalcon1318je2.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7548/page003004sn5.jpg

The SSS grants slowed aging and Cap's other enhancement from WW2.

Sersi a eternal notes Cap like her is "ever youthful" as she can wait for Steve.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8804/avengersv132814rougher.jpg

Other SSS characters find out his father has slowed aging due the SSS.(Josiaha/Isaiha)
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1773/crewv100518rougher.jpg

Cap is eternal like Hydra. Which helps explain why Cap always comes back from the dead.
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2370/hydra01019.jpg
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6469/hydra02018.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3623/hydra03022.jpg

Old issue Cap contemplating possibly being alone forever.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8682/avengersv103721livefore.jpg

Skill by itself is nigh impossible to quantify in fiction.

It all can be defined by separate attributes such as reaction time/reflexes, hand-eye-coordination, and general speed.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Skill by itself is nigh impossible to quantify in fiction.

It all can be defined by separate attributes such as reaction time/reflexes, hand-eye-coordination, and general speed.

Honestly, "skill" feels like such a loaded term in comics, especially when it comes to fighting.

For example, Batman knows a bunch of exotic and fancy ass martial arts - 127 or something or another. Captain America, while stated to have mastered virtually every style of fighting and combat (just as Batman has) tends to look less flashy or showy, which makes people think he's not as skilled as Batman. Does knowledge of more arts/discipline make you more skilled? Or does the implemention of them in real world situations make you more skilled?

Take a brawler like Thor. Definitely not what I or anyone else would label a master MMA in the conventional sense, but Thor's fighting ability is not uneffective and as far as brawling goes, he's quite skilled at it - and yes, you can be skilled at brawling contrary to what others might think.

I think people think the more flashy and "ooh, he's like a ninja!" you are, the more skilled you are and if you're not like that or have random fancy flips and other shit, you must be some kind of punk. And in a medium which is focused around still images, that's kind of misleading.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I just find it odd that Deathstroke seems to be one character who is constantly accused of having a massive jobber aura and PIS heavily working in his favor and in the same breath, characters such as Batman and Cap and Logan are held to a different standard than he.


Batman, Cap and Wolverine don't beat the Titans one day (Slade's never legitimately beat any Teen Titans except the loser v2 Titans... but lets just go with that misconception for the sake of clarity) and then have Nightwing hand their asses to them the next? Or struggled with Arsenal? Or Azrael? Or lost to Eddie Fryers? Or Deadshot? Or Vigilante? Or Pantha? Or David Cain? Or any number of street level characters. With prep Slade is a monster, without it he was barely able to beat Batman... a Batman who only wanted to talk and was trying to reason with him. Some people seem to have this misconception that he is a legitimate "team buster," but most of the times he fought the Titans he did so with prep, there was only a few of the Titans present... and he still ended up running away.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, "skill" feels like such a loaded term in comics, especially when it comes to fighting.

For example, Batman knows a bunch of exotic and fancy ass martial arts - 127 or something or another. Captain America, while stated to have mastered virtually every style of fighting and combat (just as Batman has) tends to look less flashy or showy, which makes people think he's not as skilled as Batman. Does knowledge of more arts/discipline make you more skilled? Or does the implemention of them in real world situations make you more skilled?

Take a brawler like Thor. Definitely not what I or anyone else would label a master MMA in the conventional sense, but Thor's fighting ability is not uneffective and as far as brawling goes, he's quite skilled at it - and yes, you can be skilled at brawling contrary to what others might think.

I think people think the more flashy and "ooh, he's like a ninja!" you are, the more skilled you are and if you're not like that or have random fancy flips and other shit, you must be some kind of punk. And in a medium which is focused around still images, that's kind of misleading.

End Result effectiveness is all that matters.

*while being able to keep yourself out of harms way as well.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman, Cap and Wolverine don't beat the Titans one day (Slade's never legitimately beat any Teen Titans except the loser v2 Titans... but lets just go with that misconception for the sake of clarity) and then have Nightwing hand their asses to them the next? Or struggled with Arsenal? Or Azrael? Or lost to Eddie Fryers? Or Deadshot? Or Vigilante? Or Pantha? Or David Cain? Or any number of street level characters. With prep Slade is a monster, without it he was barely able to beat Batman... a Batman who only wanted to talk and was trying to reason with him. Some people seem to have this misconception that he is a legitimate "team buster," but most of the times he fought the Titans he did so with prep, there was only a few of the Titans present... and he still ended up running away.

But when Batman solos the JLA it's alright? Or when Captain America staggers the Hulk with his bare hands? Or when for the sake of the story, Logan's healing factor is portrayed as being on a whole other level than what's typical? It's a double standard and it doesn't really fool anyone, nor should it. Does Slade have PIS moments? Of course he does, and one of the biggest, if not THE biggest PIS moment he had, being when he no sold the Lasso of Truth, the same weapon which has spiritually overwhelmed Hecate and Ares and can cause psychic napalms. But to act like Slade isn't on the same level as Batman/Cap while refusing to acknowledge or judge them by the same standard as Slade is pretty much the definition of bias.

And no, Batman wanted to bring Slade in before long. Slade refused. Batman didn't like that. And Slade didn't really give a shit. Making excuses for Batman when it's clear in the context of the story and fight itself that Batman was the aggressor and Slade wanted only to handle his business by himself does no one any credit. If Slade wanted to actively dismantle Batman instead of just get away and fulfill his mission, what do you honestly think would have happened?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
End Result effectiveness is all that matters.

*while being able to keep yourself out of harms way as well.

That's how I feel ultimately. Style and skill I feel get confused and interchanged too often.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, "skill" feels like such a loaded term in comics, especially when it comes to fighting.

For example, Batman knows a bunch of exotic and fancy ass martial arts - 127 or something or another. Captain America, while stated to have mastered virtually every style of fighting and combat (just as Batman has) tends to look less flashy or showy, which makes people think he's not as skilled as Batman. Does knowledge of more arts/discipline make you more skilled? Or does the implemention of them in real world situations make you more skilled?


It is established Marvel Canon that Captain America is more skilled than Shang-Chi. Should that be the case? Debatable, but it is the case none the less. Shang-Chi is the Marvel equivalence of Richard Dragon, if he was transported to the DC universe based on feats he would easily be in contention for the top spot. Batman isn't even in the top five. If Captain America is considered to be more skilled than Shang-Chi then it stands to reason he is more skilled than Batman. This is the product of Marvel having a much larger and more diverse street level scene than DC does. DC is Marvel, if Marvel pretty much capped their street level characters at Shang-Chi (Richard Dragon) or Elektra (Lady Shiva) in order to keep everyone tethered to Daredevil (Batman), but Marvel doesn't do that. Captain America is on a skill level that doesn't exist in DC proper a level above characters like Dragon / Shiva / Cass. Obviously there is Karate Kid, but he doesn't exist in DC proper. Now this hierarchy will likely change now that DC is getting a significant influx of Wildstorm characters, many of whom can fill the previously missing gabs in DC's street level base.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But when Batman solos the JLA it's alright? Or when Captain America staggers the Hulk with his bare hands? Or when for the sake of the story, Logan's healing factor is portrayed as being on a whole other level than what's typical? It's a double standard and it doesn't really fool anyone, nor should it. Does Slade have PIS moments? Of course he does, and one of the biggest, if not THE biggest PIS moment he had, being when he no sold the Lasso of Truth, the same weapon which has spiritually overwhelmed Hecate and Ares and can cause psychic napalms. But to act like Slade isn't on the same level as Batman/Cap while refusing to acknowledge or judge them by the same standard as Slade is pretty much the definition of bias.

And no, Batman wanted to bring Slade in before long. Slade refused. Batman didn't like that. And Slade didn't really give a shit. Making excuses for Batman when it's clear in the context of the story and fight itself that Batman was the aggressor and Slade wanted only to handle his business by himself does no one any credit. If Slade wanted to actively dismantle Batman instead of just get away and fulfill his mission, what do you honestly think would have happened?

Does anyone ever seriously bring up Batman beating the JLA, or Cap koing the Hulk, or Wolverine pulling himself out of a vat of molten metal? I don't really think so. Most of that stuff only comes up when someone on the other side brings up some blatant PIS for whoever they are supporting, when a thread degenerates in to a PIS battle. Alternatively people bring up Slade hitting the Flash all the damn time.... and the do it with a straight face because they think they are legitimate feats.

Slade is on the same level as Batman, he'd take him for a slight majority 6-6.5/10 in a straight up no prep match... but he isn't beating Cap. Slade is essentially Black Panther. Superhuman stats and senses, but not on the same level of skill as the top tier streets (Slade more so than Panther). Which is why Daredevil can give Panther a fight before going down. Which is why Batman can give Deathstroke a fight before going down. Captain America has those same stats... but he also has nearly peerless skill to go with it. Captain America is Daredevil in Black Panthers body. He is Batman in Deathstroke's body. He has the stats and the skill. Slade's stats are enough to give him the edge over someone like Batman, but they aren't enough to give him the edge over someone like Cap.

Slade came at Batman with his freaking power staff, and Batman was saying "I just want to talk." He didn't even use any gadgets. That's not an excuse... it's the context of the fight. You can argue about how much of a handicap Batman actually had in the fight, but he clearly had one. He wasn't going all out, and Slade still left the fight hurting.

Cap wins a majority

Slade

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America was also shot up once by machine gun fire while he was in his civies, which completely leveled his car, and he was fine. He took out the shooters with half a dozen rounds in his chest and went to SHIELD for a debriefing. Remind me... what happened when Deadshot filled Deathstroke with bullets?

Captain America can see bullets in slow motion. That gives us an idea of just how much faster he sees the world then a normal human would. Slade has no such measuring stick documented, assuming the abilities are equal is just further documentation of your bias.

The speed of thought is 150mph. Even if his thought process was 1000 times faster than a normal human (and it isn't its only around 10x), Slade's instantaneous reflexes would be no where near fast enough to allow him to tag any one of those characters. It's PIS.

There is plenty of reason to believe that Captain America could causally beat Batman... it's called his complete history. Fanboys love to delude themselves into thinking that Batman and Captain America are equals, that there is little in the way of difference between the two of them... but that simply isn't the case. Captain America is a super soldier. He can run 60mph while carrying a grown man. He can stop a car dead in its tracks by grabbing it and anchoring himself. He can see bullets in slow motion. He can walk around with a telephone pole causally slung over one shoulder. He out runs bullets and has the strength of a platoon of soldiers. Captain America is Batman in the body of Deathstroke. Captain America would steam role Batman, anyone who can be impartial should be able to see that. I'm Canadian... I don't even like Captain America that much, and even I know he can beat Batman. No one is going to come to your house at take away your Batman bedsheets and break your action figures, because you were able to put aside your bias for ten seconds.

show me the scan.you sure his armor had nothing to do with it? Because i doubt it. Why? Because hes already died from gunshots.....really died, not like slade.arguing that cap hf can compare just plain retarded. Hes gotten a y in an autopsy that visibly started healing before it was finished. Cease this nonsense srank.

Lol their you go calling me bias. They both see in slow motion. You cant even prove that he can see faster but yet you insist he has an advantage. And im biased? Youre ridiculous.

Srank, are you really that deluded? Its not pis because his reflexes dont add up or make sense in reality. Its a freakin comicbook. You cant use such logic. His reflex feats are better and hes stated better.period. Get over it or provide proof against it.

Lol ive seen that feat youve mentioned and youre crazy for thinking cap can run faster than the speed of a bullet. Didnt you just say 60mph? Which is it? Lol and im a fanboy? You think cap runs faster than bullets travel and your not one? Lol ur a total hypocrite. Cap doesnt even have better feats than bruce, but you act as if hes god to him.like he couldnt even put up a fight despite all hes accomplished in his own feats. This is what fanboys do. They cite all the ridiculous pis crap they want and then dismiss any feat better as pis. The funny thing is a fanboy is always the quickest to simply call someone biased or a fanboy or ignorant instead of focusing their energies on proving something.

Yea Cap has better feats than Bruce because Caps rogue gallery is more dangerous.

Is some one really trying to pretend DS tagging flash is not PIS?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Is some one really trying to pretend DS tagging flash is not PIS?


Yeah, Srank is crazy!!

Originally posted by namorsubby
show me the scan.you sure his armor had nothing to do with it? Because i doubt it. Why? Because hes already died from gunshots.....really died, not like slade.
.
For starters I like to say, you are extremely bias.


Second this is an awful arguement, but thanks for ignoring context. Capt "died" from gun shot wounds, while wereing a device which depowered him Genius.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
For starters I like to say, you are extremely bias.
pot, meet kettle

Originally posted by Starscream M
pot, meet kettle
why even bother? your a clown and useless. And you can believe me bias all you want, but I dont try bringing up feats like tagging flash or hanging with WW ect, as legitmet feats for low level superhumans.

Originally posted by namorsubby
show me the scan.you sure his armor had nothing to do with it? Because i doubt it. Why? Because hes already died from gunshots.....really died, not like slade.


Actually this shows your ignorance. Cap never died from bullets. The bullets were highly advanced time bullets that scent his consciousness too the past. Thus his body was just not animated.

If his consciousness remained he would have healed just like he always did.

And then they plucked him out of it from the time loop he was in. This proves again how ignorant on Cap you are.

So.. who was Thor talking to when he brought back his "spirit"? Man, Marvel is so f#$ked up when it comes to killing off/resurecting characters...

Thor probably plucked his actually spirit despite being alive, then it went back.

Cap is pretty much eternal.

Eternal like Hydra. Which helps explain why Cap always comes back from the dead.
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2370/hydra01019.jpg
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6469/hydra02018.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3623/hydra03022.jpg


Sersi a eternal notes Cap like her is "ever youthful" as she can wait for Steve.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/...2814rougher.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED
So.. who was Thor talking to when he brought back his "spirit"? Man, Marvel is so f#$ked up when it comes to killing off/resurecting characters...

He likely pulled his spirit from its time limbo. Not a huge stretch considering that his hammer also BFRed Janet instead of killing her in Secret Invasion.

i..... don't really know who would win. :/

I think its a good fight, I just don't get why Marvel fans are so adamant about this being a stomp in Steve's favor.

I can accept someone thinking that Cap's superior skills would net him a 6/10 or maybe even a 7/10 but saying that anyone wins 10/10 just smacks of rabid fanboyism.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think its a good fight, I just don't get why Marvel fans are so adamant about this being a stomp in Steve's favor.

I can accept someone thinking that Cap's superior skills would net him a 6/10 or maybe even a 7/10 but saying that anyone wins 10/10 just smacks of rabid fanboyism.
In pure h2h? I dont think it is at all to think Capt the superior fighter in skill of the two would win the vast majority of the time. DS pretty much has zero physical advantages against capt leaving skill and stamina to be two huge factor, both of which favor capt. He might not win 10/10, but 8/10 seem realistic given how they match up. If this would a normal fight I think 6/10 or even perhap favoring DS, but in h2h your in Capt game.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
In pure h2h? I dont think it is at all to think Capt the superior fighter in skill of the two would win the vast majority of the time. DS pretty much has zero physical advantages against capt leaving skill and stamina to be two huge factor, both of which favor capt. He might not win 10/10, but 8/10 seem realistic given how they match up. If this would a normal fight I think 6/10 or even perhap favoring DS, but in h2h your in Capt game.
His reflex feats are superior to Cap's, as are his HF feats.

I'm aware of Cap surviving a gunshot wound to his head once or twice...Deathstroke has done that like four-five times. He's also had his heart ripped open and almost instantly regenerated from it.

I'm not going to bring up Slade hurting Wonder Woman and such with his blows since I think we both agree that those feats much like Cap hurting/staggering Namor and Hulk are stupid, I will however take your attention back to him pwning Nightwing and Batman with just a few blows. In the former instance he did this while his serum was wearing off...meaning he was much weaker than normal...yet he still managed to trounce a skilled Peak Human when he wasn't even trying to kill/KO him, just get him off his back because he didn't have the time.

When has Slade ever had problems with his stamina? I don't see Cap having any real advantage there.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
His reflex feats are superior to Cap's, as are his HF feats.

No there not. and certainly not more consistent.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

I'm aware of Cap surviving a gunshot wound to his head once or twice...Deathstroke has done that like four-five times.
DS is immortal, that hardly as impressive when you can't die.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

He's also had his heart ripped open and almost instantly regenerated from it.

in a single arc and he never shown at that level again. Slade is not even remotely at that level consistently.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

I'm not going to bring up Slade hurting Wonder Woman and such with his blows since I think we both agree that those feats much like Cap hurting/staggering Namor and Hulk are stupid,

Agreed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

I will however take your attention back to him pwning Nightwing and Batman with just a few blows. In the former instance he did this while his serum was wearing off
He also been giving hell against NW and many others. NW never been veyr impressive in terms of durability. It was more then a few blows and he hurt DS so badl he got taken down by common thugs......

No it wasent at all. Thats a misconception. His serum was not wearing off at all during that fight.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

...meaning he was much weaker than normal...yet he still managed to trounce a skilled Peak Human when he wasn't even trying to kill/KO him, just get him off his back because he didn't have the time.

Except he wasent weaker then normal. This is misconception.

And Batman was also not going all out either. Your serously playing up the event.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

When has Slade ever had problems with his stamina? I don't see Cap having any real advantage there.
When has slade foughten days on end?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
NW never been veyr impressive in terms of durability.

What does that make the rest of the Batfamily then...? Batpussies?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What does that make the rest of the Batfamily then...? Batpussies?
In my opinion he less durable then lot of the Bat Family based off his abilities. Durability the thing that holds him back the most, and is the reason Batman will always have his number. He fast, agile, skilled, but he seem to have inability to wistand nearly as much punishment as DD or Batman .

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ Gladly.



Not sure where you're getting this "narrow ledge" argument from. I mean, c'mon. Considering Batman is a phenomenal athelete and has grappling hooks as well as intimate knowledge of Gotham City, the idea of a fighting on a precarious location such as that seriously hindering him is ridiculous. Deathstroke was and is physically superior to Batman, which enabled him to beat the shit out of Batman and leave him KTFO where as Slade just had an injured arm.

Twisting this into some kind of excuse for Batman only for Steve Rogers' benefit to discredit Deathstroke is disingenuous.

i pretty much agree with this. to me, it seemed that ds wasn't all that interested intially in the fight, but bats sort of kept picking away at him until he got po'd and decided it was time to end things. bats seemed to surprise him with that last shot through the glass, but i agree jake--ds was pretty clearly depicted as well above bats--at least in that encounter.

could cap leave bats laying like that so quickly? i'm not so sure about that.... i'd take cap over bats in straight h2h for the solid majority, but i i think this is a pretty damn good fight.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
In my opinion he less durable then lot of the Bat Family based off his abilities. Durability the thing that holds him back the most, and is the reason Batman will always have his number. He fast, agile, skilled, but he seem to have inability to wistand nearly as much punishment as DD or Batman .

Oh, of course he's not on Batman's level.

But his durability is insane using Batfamily's standards imo... Luthor pumped on venom gassed Drake, Huntress, Dick and Cass and one-shotted all of them then with Huntress' staff. Excluding Nightwing. Lex beat the shit out of him and was surprised he was still standing despite the gas and superhuman blows...

Granted, eventually he got KO'd.

Originally posted by leonidas
i pretty much agree with this. to me, it seemed that ds wasn't all that interested intially in the fight, but bats sort of kept picking away at him until he got po'd and decided it was time to end things. bats seemed to surprise him with that last shot through the glass, but i agree jake--ds was pretty clearly depicted as well above bats--at least in that encounter.

could cap leave bats laying like that so quickly? i'm not so sure about that.... i'd take cap over bats in straight h2h for the solid majority, but i i think this is a pretty damn good fight.
And Batman was? are you guys readig the same scans as me? Because batman did not want the fight anymore the Slade did. He states "talk to me wilson"

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Oh, of course he's not on Batman's level.

But his durability is insane using Batfamily's standards imo... Luthor pumped on venom gassed Drake, Huntress, Dick and Cass and one-shotted all of them then with Huntress' staff. Excluding Nightwing. Lex beat the shit out of him and was surprised he was still standing despite the gas and superhuman blows...

Granted, eventually he got KO'd.

Then there been plenty of times were he taken out by mere slam into TV like against DS. He has some very high showings, but the majority of the time his durability seem to be potray far lower then his other attributes. He consistently has been less then impressive with his durability in my opinion. I think character like DD damage soak is much more impressive then Dicks.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Then there been plenty of times were he taken out by mere slam into TV like against DS. He has some very high showings, but the majority of the time his durability seem to be potray far lower then his other attributes. He consistently has been less then impressive with his durability in my opinion. I think character like DD damage soak is much more impressive then Dicks.

I agree. My point is that he's most likely the second most durable BF member. I mean, if not him than who?

Cass got one-shotted by Dick.

Huntress almost got one-shotted by a random thug.

Tim is just a teenager.

Steve Rogers ftw!

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
And Batman was? are you guys readig the same scans as me? Because batman did not want the fight anymore the Slade did. He states "talk to me wilson"

jake's right, bats was the aggressor and was at least determined NOT to let slade get away. sldae? he just wanted to be left alone. it also seemed to me bats tried to put him down and failed. that's when ds got a little more serious and pretty much kicked his arse.... least that's how it looked in my view.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap's reactions are at least on par with Wolverine's, and Logan can chamber and throw a punch .038 seconds. Which is 7-8 times faster than a normal humans finger tip reaction time. That means that if you were doing one of those tests on the computer where you press enter when you see a light flash, that when that light flashed... Wolverine could punch you 7-8 times full boar in the face before you could press said button. Who knows how much faster his finger tip reaction time is? Like you said, 10x human isn't above Cap. Not. Even. Close.

Can you show me a scan where it has Logan throwing a punch in that time?

How did one figure that caps reflexes are at least on par with wolverines? How can that be confirmed? Also how is 7-8 times finger tip reaction interpreted as faster than 10 times human reaction? If slade can(at his lowest) react 10 times faster than a human, why wouldnt someone figure that that mean ANY type of human reaction?