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Standard power levels for DS and Thanos
Classic Thor
Current SS
Current Superman
Don't know a lot about BM but you guys make him seem pretty powerful so I throw him in here.

Which team wins as battle is on deserted asteroid?

T1. Blue Marvel is a weak link.

Thanos solos.

Superman takes care of Darkseid.
Thanos takes care of SS
Blue Marvel Loses to Thor

Superman and Thanos vs Thor. Thor loses.

Superman then beats up Thanos for being a cheap copy of Darkseid.

Originally posted by Diesldude


Superman then beats up Thanos for being a cheap copy of Darkseid. You had me till you said this. Thin line. You crossed it. I won't ever forget this treason.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos solos.

Alright, I'll bite. And to use a classic Quan line, "how?"

Originally posted by quanchi112
You had me till you said this. Thin line. You crossed it. I won't ever forget this treason.

Thanos and DS have their similarities and certainly their differences, but you even you can't deny that Thanos was created in response to Darkseid.

Originally posted by Cogito
Alright, I'll bite. And to use a classic Quan line, "how?"



Thanos and DS have their similarities and certainly their differences, but you even you can't deny that Thanos was created in response to Darkseid. Thanos was created more in response to Metron.

Darkseid > Thanos
Thor = Superman
Silver Surfer > = Blue Marvel imo

Team 1

Team 2 ftw

Surfer>Blue Marvel
Superman>Thor
Thanos>DS

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Darkseid > Thanos
Thor = Superman
Silver Surfer > = Blue Marvel imo

Team 1

Are u going to run and hide when I ask you for those multiversal feats from FC DS again?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are u going to run and hide when I ask you for those multiversal feats from FC DS again?

The question was already answered properly in the thread you are now talking about. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean I have to explain everything to you .

Originally posted by Cogito
Alright, I'll bite. And to use a classic Quan line, "how?"



Thanos and DS have their similarities and certainly their differences, but you even you can't deny that Thanos was created in response to Darkseid. Unkillable, more powerful, more durable, and smarter.

Smh...

Considering that Thor and Surfer can likely neutralize Supes out the gate, and I'm fairly certain that the Omega Effect would work on Blue Marvel, I'm leaning towards Team 1 if strategy is taken into account rather than the simplistic "charge in head first and blast/punch the person that's most analogous to you" approach people seem to always bring to these fights.

I also think 'standard' Darkseid is more powerful than standard Thanos.

No way team 1 gets through Thanos' shield. Or his force block. Then there's the whole "HEZ ABSTRACT" thing he's got going for him.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The question was already answered properly in the thread you are now talking about. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean I have to explain everything to you .

Actually it wasn't. DS perfomred NO multiversal feats under his own power or at all. I'm still waiting on ANY feat from DS that was multiversal or a part of his plan.

Team 1, but Kal and Thanos put up a fight.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Unkillable, more powerful, more durable, and smarter.

I disagree on the last three and would say that Darkseid is at least Thanos' equal in all, but won't argue because that would be an effort in futility, as always.

Darkseid, however, is also unkillable, as evidenced by Spectre (scans courtesy of respect thead)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/TheSpectre19V4-10.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/TheSpectre19V4-12.jpg

And how does DS deal with Thanos? Easy, BFR to the end of time same as H/P Doomsday. As far as I know, the OE has never failed to BFR someone, and I don't see why it wouldn't work for Thanos.

Team 1.

Originally posted by Cogito
I disagree on the last three and would say that Darkseid is at least Thanos' equal in all, but won't argue because that would be an effort in futility, as always.

Darkseid, however, is also unkillable, as evidenced by Spectre (scans courtesy of respect thead)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/TheSpectre19V4-10.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/TheSpectre19V4-12.jpg

And how does DS deal with Thanos? Easy, BFR to the end of time same as H/P Doomsday. As far as I know, the OE has never failed to BFR someone, and I don't see why it wouldn't work for Thanos. Darkseid isn't unkillable since Batman fatally wounded him, Superman finished the job, Doomsday beat him to the point he would have died had Superman not intervened, etc. orion punched his heart out, etc.

Darkseid can be rezzed by the source but this is a one time occurrence that isn't under his own power thus inapplicable here besides the fact others beats him or killed him.

Thanos can teleport. LOL. Darkseid didn't bfr Doomsday he got the hell beat out of him. LOL.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid isn't unkillable since Batman fatally wounded him, Superman finished the job, Doomsday beat him to the point he would have died had Superman not intervened, etc. orion punched his heart out, etc.

That was not Darkseid that Batman killed, it was DS controlling Dan Turpin's body. Orion didn't kill Darkseid because he's appeared since. And besides, Final Crisis was a piece of shit that makes little to no sense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid can be rezzed by the source but this is a one time occurrence that isn't under his own power thus inapplicable here besides the fact others beats him or killed him.
First, there's no reason to believe it was a one time occurance. The Source said DS is necessary for life to exist, so as long as life exists the Source should protect him. Also, it's laughable that you're holding it against Darkseid that it's the Source protecting him from death and thus not his own power when it's Death protecting Thanos from death, not his own power.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos can teleport. LOL. Darkseid didn't bfr Doomsday he got the hell beat out of him. LOL.
Ok...has Thanos ever shown the ability to time travel on his own? Because that's what he'd need to do here.

And I didn't claim Darkseid BFR'd Doomsday. I said he could have. He didn't because of a combination of arrogance thinking he could just kill him permanently and PIS. If he had wanted to, he could have easily BFR'd DD.

Originally posted by Cogito
That was not Darkseid that Batman killed, it was DS controlling Dan Turpin's body. Orion didn't kill Darkseid because he's appeared since. And besides, Final Crisis was a piece of shit that makes little to no sense.


First, there's no reason to believe it was a one time occurance. The Source said DS is necessary for life to exist, so as long as life exists the Source should protect him. Also, it's laughable that you're holding it against Darkseid that it's the Source protecting him from death and thus not his own power when it's Death protecting Thanos from death, not his own power.


Ok...has Thanos ever shown the ability to time travel on his own? Because that's what he'd need to do here.

And I didn't claim Darkseid BFR'd Doomsday. I said he could have. He didn't because of a combination of arrogance thinking he could just kill him permanently and PIS. If he had wanted to, he could have easily BFR'd DD. That's the only darkseid who showed up so we have no choice but to use it or else leave fc completely out of it.

No, it was one writer addressing an issue in which the Spectre killed him. One writer's interpretations don't mean jack to every other writer especially since this has never been alluded to prior to or since. I also gave examples of Darkseid being beaten and killed. LOL.

Thanos was given the power to be immune to death on his own. That's his power now until otherwise. We also don't have eany examples of Thanos being killed since then anyways unlike Darkseid.

He did so with the silver surfer so uhm yes.

So you admit darkseid is too arrogant to do so meaning it's out of character to do so here which there isn't any proof it will even hit Thanos since he can easily deflect it like WW or like hv has.

So if a doombot dies, then Dr. Doom is dead? Because that's the same logic you're using. As a Doombot is not Dr. Doom, an avatar is Darkseid is not Darkseid.

The Spectre has been the only one to actually kill the real Darkseid, which is why we can assume that's the only time the Source has intervened.

Your difference between Darkseid and Thanos dying is nitpicking. Neither naturally had/has the power to be immune to death.

I'm not familiar with Thanos time travelling. Scans or description of what happened?

WW's defense against Darkseid's omega beams comes from other gods. I have no reason to believe Thanos is as powerful as those gods, and therefore no reason to believe that Thanos can block them the same.

Why bother, Cogito?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Why bother, Cogito?

Quan becomes an irrational femboy clinging to Thanos's nuts when discussing Thanos.

6GzOoyOOfqM

Something like that

Originally posted by Cogito
So if a doombot dies, then Dr. Doom is dead? Because that's the same logic you're using. As a Doombot is not Dr. Doom, an avatar is Darkseid is not Darkseid.

The Spectre has been the only one to actually kill the real Darkseid, which is why we can assume that's the only time the Source has intervened.

Your difference between Darkseid and Thanos dying is nitpicking. Neither naturally had/has the power to be immune to death.

I'm not familiar with Thanos time travelling. Scans or description of what happened?

WW's defense against Darkseid's omega beams comes from other gods. I have no reason to believe Thanos is as powerful as those gods, and therefore no reason to believe that Thanos can block them the same. Who has been killed that wasn't the real Ds ?


Thanos was vested with an indestructible form since his rez unlike Seid Thanos has the power himself.

He traveled through time through his tech. You already stated Ds is too arrogant and will probably try to duke this out not that it matters as it's easy to deflect his beams.

Superman's hv doesn't come from other gods nor does Raker's gl powers which both negated ds's powers for the time being.

Thanos is far more powerful than either.

Darkseid survived death under his own power. These are the events in order:-
1) An amped Orion faces Darkseid in the "Final Conflict" as prophesized. In the course of the fight DS' heart get's ripped out, presumably killing him.

2) Darkseid doesn't go away, through sheer will power he survives the war with Orion and New Genesis after his apparent death. But as I side effect of the cosmic war the dimension of the 4th world is destroyed, flinging Darkseid backwards in time.

3) Darkseid arrives on Earth years before the current timeline and lives in the disguise of a human gangster, calling himself Boss Darkside.

4) Darkseid has won the cosmic war aka the war in heaven with New Genesis. He traps Mr. Miracle II in the Omega Sanction while Shilo is doing a stunt in a black hole in order to destroy the avatar of freedom.

5) After those events we discover that the universe hasn't yet caught up with the cataclysm that was the destruction of the 4th world. Kind of like an explosion that expands backwards and then forwards through time, the destruction of that dimension finally coincides with continuity in the present.

6) The whole/complete Darkseid falls into present time precipitating the events of FC and coinciding with the acquisition of Turpin as his final host i.e. the ideal vessel for the time to nourish/feed DS for the time he needs to accomplish his plan.

So at no point did the Source sustain DS. The only time that has actually happened was when the Spectre killed him, every other time DS has come back through his own esoteric power (like the time he used Orion's own body to revive, and ripped Orion in two when his body had fully leached off Orion) or sheer will power.

Team 2. Superman > Darkseid. Thanos > Thor or SS.

Blue Marvel isn't a push-over by any means.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Team 2. Superman > Darkseid. Thanos > Thor or SS.

Blue Marvel isn't a push-over by any means.

I'm a big Superman fan, and in no way, shape, or form is Superman > Darkseid.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Smh...

Considering that Thor and Surfer can likely neutralize Supes out the gate, and I'm fairly certain that the Omega Effect would work on Blue Marvel, I'm leaning towards Team 1 if strategy is taken into account rather than the simplistic "charge in head first and blast/punch the person that's most analogous to you" approach people seem to always bring to these fights.

I also think 'standard' Darkseid is more powerful than standard Thanos. Seriously, though:

This. Exactly.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
T1. Blue Marvel is a weak link.

Originally posted by Cogito
I'm a big Superman fan, and in no way, shape, or form is Superman > Darkseid. Except he's beat Darkseid down when he's fought him at his best on-panel.

Well, we all agree Kal is the strongest fighter in the battlefield 131

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Phail03.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except he's beat Darkseid down when he's fought him at his best on-panel.

And Darkseid has embarrassed Superman before...he certainly has greater overall feats, as well as more consistent feats, which I believe trumps that showing by Supes

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except he's beat Darkseid down when he's fought him at his best on-panel.

So we take Superman on his best and Darkseid on his worst?

How about we take both at their best? Then DS should wins this, right?

Originally posted by Cogito
And Darkseid has embarrassed Superman before...he certainly has greater overall feats, as well as more consistent feats, which I believe trumps that showing by Supes No. He doesn't. Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So we take Superman on his best and Darkseid on his worst?

How about we take both at their best? Then DS should wins this, right? Darkseid's losses aren't a result of him performing his worst when Superman is performing his best.

I'm not entertaining these flimsy excuses.

Thor solos

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Darkseid > Thanos
Thor = Superman
Silver Surfer > = Blue Marvel imo

Team 1

Thanos>darksied
thor=>superman
silver surfer>Blue marvel

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. He doesn't. Darkseid's losses aren't a result of him performing his worst when Superman is performing his best.

I'm not entertaining these flimsy excuses. C'mon... IIRC HV deflected the OE, not just the beams, but what DS claimed was the OE. and he was blinded by a hematoma?

then he cant teleport himself out of SM's grasp or shoot the OE at his face while SM flies him into the wall even thgough they're carrying a dialogue and looking at each other?

Originally posted by Cogito
And Darkseid has embarrassed Superman before...he certainly has greater overall feats, as well as more consistent feats, which I believe trumps that showing by Supes He doesn't have superior feats to Superman. Superman is his superior in battle.

Originally posted by 753
C'mon... IIRC HV deflected the OE, not just the beams, but what DS claimed was the OE. and he was blinded by a hematoma?

then he cant teleport himself out of SM's grasp or shoot the OE at his face while SM flies him into the wall even thgough they're carrying a dialogue and looking at each other? A lot of things have deflected/diverted the Omega Effect.

The times Darkseid has "gotten one over" on Superman involve either Desaad tossing Byrne Superman, Darkseid sucker-punching him into the Source Wall, smacking him around after his failed assault on Imperiex Prime, and maybe a pimp-hand or two with no extended fight.

Superman > Darkseid. He's humbled him definitively as bad as anybody can be.

Thanos being the brilliant tactician that he is will have superman face off against DS.


Thanos will beat up SS quicker than anyone will beat his opponent here. He will then go and help BM against Thor.

Superman should have already dealt with DS by now but if he hasn't Thanos and BM will have been done with Thor and can assist.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
A lot of things have deflected/diverted the Omega Effect.

Wonder Woman's bracers.

Superman's heat vision.

...umm...

...yeah that's all I can think of Post Crisis.

Also you ignore the fact that Superman was sunamped during the Superman/Batman fight. Before the fight moved to the sun Darkseid was winning.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wonder Woman's bracers.

Superman's heat vision.

...umm...

...yeah that's all I can think of Post Crisis.

Also you ignore the fact that Superman was sunamped during the Superman/Batman fight. Before the fight moved to the sun Darkseid was winning. Raker's gl ring also contained the omega beams. Superman took Darkseid to the sun so he definitely was winning since he took Seid against his will from earth all the way to the sun. That's called imposing your will on someone else.

Superman and Blue Marvel just need to keep their respective opponents busy for about a minute while Thanos is dong smacking his opponent. He wouldn't quite solo here, but pretty damn close.

Thanos solos.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Smh...

Considering that Thor and Surfer can likely neutralize Supes out the gate, and I'm fairly certain that the Omega Effect would work on Blue Marvel, I'm leaning towards Team 1 if strategy is taken into account rather than the simplistic "charge in head first and blast/punch the person that's most analogous to you" approach people seem to always bring to these fights.



this is agreeable

Team 1. Barely though and mostly because of Thor. Darkseid and Surfer are holding him back. excellent

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Team 1. Barely though and mostly because of Thor. Darkseid and Surfer are holding him back. excellent

Now THIS is what I am talking about. We got the old Rage back. Good stuff.

Lmao @ Thanos soloing or almost soloing.

Get that grape dick wanking out of here.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lmao @ Thanos soloing or almost soloing.

Get that grape dick wanking out of here.

Add Thanos team to the other team and he still solos.

Thanos isn't soloing Darkseid, Thor, and Surfer.

Grape dick wanking at its finest.

And not even from the usual suspects this time.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
A lot of things have deflected/diverted the Omega Effect.

The times Darkseid has "gotten one over" on Superman involve either Desaad tossing Byrne Superman, Darkseid sucker-punching him into the Source Wall, smacking him around after his failed assault on Imperiex Prime, and maybe a pimp-hand or two with no extended fight.

Superman > Darkseid. He's humbled him definitively as bad as anybody can be.

Superman has smacked DS like...twice post crisis. The extremely OOC Apokolips Now where apparently the proudest guy in the multiverse asks for quarter, and thinks Supes would want to take over Apokolips, really is that DS or one of his minions? And then the Superman/Batman Source Wall beatdown.

By contrast Post Crisis DS has ko'd Superman and the JLA core in Super Powers. Smacked him during the Imperiex War. Dropped him in Countdown. Was about to kill him in DOTNG before Miracle used the ALE on him to stop him.

That's 4 incidents off the top of my head where DS showed superior combat power to Superman's 2. There are other incidents as well but they had some extenuating circumstances.

And of course there's their first meeting in Confidential. So like 5-2 Post Crisis with regards to real victories.

Superman just got KO'ed by Black Racer in Imperiex War and then fought Darkseid...
Darkseid was draining him with Shadow Demons in DOTNG, something that hasn't exactly been shown again, or before for that matter
Superman was winning in Countdown until Darkseid activated a Kryptonite Jimmy that rendered Superman almost unable to stand, then Darkseid shot him in the back

Superman also made Darkseid run away twice, that you forgot. Plus he stalemated him in the Imperiex arc as well.

I always shake my head when Darkseid fans try and compare Superman/Darksied battles. I don't think Omega Vision has ever tried the stunt again after our last debate. excellent

If you actually read their battles, Superman has proven without a doubt that he is the physically superior specimen. At least when he cuts loose. Shit, I'd be hard pressed to even give the poor bastard a power edge anymore if the Omega Effect is anything to go by.

But don't worry, Darkseid still has his vaguely defined "true form" that he can rely on. That is until they battle and Superman sings.

Even though Superman is powerful, Darkseid sucks (even though he is a great villian). Wonder Woman give Superman better fights than Darkseid.

Superman wasn't winning in Countdown.

They seemed pretty evenly matched. It's just Darkseid had no reason to continue fighting Superman when he could just zap him with Kryptonite. It was the smart move, I don't see it as proof he couldn't beat Superman the old fashioned way.

In any case it's not as if being beaten/given trouble by Superman means that any Herald can beat Darkseid which is unfortunately what many seem to believe/try to argue.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman wasn't winning in Countdown.

They seemed pretty evenly matched. It's just Darkseid had no reason to continue fighting Superman when he could just zap him with Kryptonite. It was the smart move, I don't see it as proof he couldn't beat Superman the old fashioned way.

In any case it's not as if being beaten/given trouble by Superman means that any Herald can beat Darkseid which is unfortunately what many seem to believe/try to argue.



That's the problem. People still think Superman is just another Herald, while he is portrayed often enough to be above herald level, and is treated like a cosmic being. He is a cosmic being, a nexus being. Any other Herald would get stomped by Darkseid.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Any other Herald would get stomped by Darkseid.

Any other herald? You sure about that?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Any other herald? You sure about that?

Hmm, let my think about it. Surfer for sure. Thor might have a good chance to survive some time, like he does against Zeus for example. Are you referring to someone special?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime


That's the problem. People still think Superman is just another Herald, while he is portrayed often enough to be above herald level, and is treated like a cosmic being. He is a cosmic being, a nexus being. Any other Herald would get stomped by Darkseid.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hmm, let my think about it. Surfer for sure. Thor might have a good chance to survive some time, like he does against Zeus for example. Are you referring to someone special?

Those were the main two I was thinking of. Given their feats and how they rank in power and versatility, they could each give Darkseid an ass kicking, imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those were the main two I was thinking of. Given their feats and how they rank in power and versatility, they could each give Darkseid an ass kicking, imo.

The way heralds are portrayed against Darkseid, with the exception of Superman because of said "qualities", I don't think they would stand a real chance. Crossovers are a bad example, so let's forget the hunger. But imho it would be similar to it. I see Thor doing much better then Surfer because of Mjolnir and his ability to block or absorb powerful Sh!t but I don't think it would be enough in the end.

Imo, Superman should also lose always to Darkseid, but well he is the Nexus being of DC, sooo.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The way heralds are portrayed against Darkseid, with the exception of Superman because of said "qualities", I don't think they would stand a real chance. Crossovers are a bad example, so let's forget the hunger. But imho it would be similar to it. I see Thor doing much better then Surfer because of Mjolnir and his ability to block or absorb powerful Sh!t but I don't think it would be enough in the end.

Imo, Superman should also lose always to Darkseid, but well he is the Nexus being of DC, sooo.

And yet, both Surfer and Thor have taken it to beings > than Darkseid. Given that Superman holds a speed and strength edge over Thor and Surfer (though I don't feel Superman is vastly stronger than what Thor can accomplish with a Mjolnir swing), and the other two clearly trump him in power output and versatility, it raises the question why can't they beat Darkseid for the majority outside of "they're not Superman".

As you said it yourself, Thor's defensive capabilities with Mjolnir should give him a huge edge against Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his battles with Superman. And Surfer's no slouch, either.

We can argue, and likely agree, that Darkseid should be >>>> Superman, but when it comes down to it, he's not shown to be a lot of the times in comics outside of amps or his true form. And if Superman is a peer to Thor and Surfer, regardless of who you feel is the "best" out of the three, again, how and why can't Thor and Surfer do as well as Superman?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The way heralds are portrayed against Darkseid, with the exception of Superman because of said "qualities", I don't think they would stand a real chance. Crossovers are a bad example, so let's forget the hunger. But imho it would be similar to it. I see Thor doing much better then Surfer because of Mjolnir and his ability to block or absorb powerful Sh!t but I don't think it would be enough in the end.

Imo, Superman should also lose always to Darkseid, but well he is the Nexus being of DC, sooo. What? You mean GL Raker who's diverted Darkseid's beams? Wonder Woman, who actually warred with Darkseid and has done the same? Orion who has taken him to task?

Let's not project Thanos' clear superiority over High Heralds onto Darkseid. Thanos has never been so utterly humbled by a High Herald. Not even close. Darkseid has.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What? You mean GL Raker who's diverted Darkseid's beams? Wonder Woman, who actually warred with Darkseid and has done the same? Orion who has taken him to task?

Let's not project Thanos' clear superiority over High Heralds onto Darkseid. Thanos has never been so utterly humbled by a High Herald. Not even close. Darkseid has.

This...

There really shouldn't even be an argument made with Darkseid vs Heralds because on panel proof is a b****. I see no reason on why Thor couldn't pull a majority against him imo because honestly, he has the tools to do it.

By the way, I would like to add... Thanos>>>Darkseid.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lmao @ Thanos soloing or almost soloing.

Get that grape dick wanking out of here. He'd do so and easily. Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman wasn't winning in Countdown.

They seemed pretty evenly matched. It's just Darkseid had no reason to continue fighting Superman when he could just zap him with Kryptonite. It was the smart move, I don't see it as proof he couldn't beat Superman the old fashioned way.

In any case it's not as if being beaten/given trouble by Superman means that any Herald can beat Darkseid which is unfortunately what many seem to believe/try to argue. Superman was winning hence Darkseid's timely oslen usage. Superman owns Seid even in fc he beats him.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman wasn't winning in Countdown.

They seemed pretty evenly matched. It's just Darkseid had no reason to continue fighting Superman when he could just zap him with Kryptonite. It was the smart move, I don't see it as proof he couldn't beat Superman the old fashioned way.
Darkseid hurt Superman once in that fight... Superman rocked him with everything he landed. Superman was winning, Darkseid won because of the surroundings (Jimmy). I don't see a problem with that.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49h.jpg < Translation: I don't want to get my ass kicked again.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49h.jpg < Translation: I don't want to get my ass kicked again. The same people who defend that fight, rag on Thanos for his closer fight with a powered up pissed off Thor. Even though Thanos never got pissed off and then said he wanted to stop two pages later...

Darkseid is above Thanos though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49h.jpg < Translation: I don't want to get my ass kicked again. These scans don't lie. Superman against Seid one on one owns him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/CountdownWeek49h.jpg < Translation: I don't want to get my ass kicked again.

Translation: I'm intelligent and thought ahead. I could fight Superman, but why would I want to when I have an auto-win button?

Originally posted by quanchi112
These scans don't lie. Superman against Seid one on one owns him.
These scans are selective, and don't show the whole picture. If Thanos were fighting Thor, and Thanos had prepared a way to beat Thor instantly, you would brag about Thanos' intelligence and awe-inspiring prep skills. Your bias is disgusting.

What follows next is Jimmy Olsen growing to massive proportions, empowered by the New Gods. Darkseid also grows and proceeds to beat his ass down, and finally being on the verge of killing him when they were interrupted.

Furthermore, I propose that a pissed off Superman (like a warrior madness Thor), are not high heralds, but Trans+.

Originally posted by Cogito
Translation: I'm intelligent and thought ahead. I could fight Superman, but why would I want to when I have an auto-win button?


These scans are selective, and don't show the whole picture. If Thanos were fighting Thor, and Thanos had prepared a way to beat Thor instantly, you would brag about Thanos' intelligence and awe-inspiring prep skills. Your bias is disgusting.

What follows next is Jimmy Olsen growing to massive proportions, empowered by the New Gods. Darkseid also grows and proceeds to beat his ass down, and finally being on the verge of killing him when they were interrupted.

Furthermore, I propose that a pissed off Superman (like a warrior madness Thor), are not high heralds, but Trans+. Here's the difference as this has already occurred. Thanos did fight Thor not only not holding back but backed by a huge amp the power gem. Thanos fought him despite knowing physical punishment wouldn't defeat him and easily won. Thanos has never lost to Thor whereas Darkseid has repeatedly stalemated him and lost to him. Darkseid has lost to Superman without any amps and to the point he admitted humiliation in a fair one on one battle to which Seid begged for mercy. That's about as abysmal of a loss as can be.

Olsen didn't know what he was doing with his powers and Seid always controlled them until Ray Palmer destroyed his connection.

Then at the end Orion ripped his heart out.

Thor can be a trans all he wants even with an amp he isn't beating Thanos whereas Superman has crushed Darkseid before and Superman has never beaten Orion. I guess since Superman stalemates and is seen as a peer to Captain Marvel he's another example of a trans. LOL.

Originally posted by Cogito
Translation: I'm intelligent and thought ahead. I could fight Superman, but why would I want to when I have an auto-win button?


These scans are selective, and don't show the whole picture. If Thanos were fighting Thor, and Thanos had prepared a way to beat Thor instantly, you would brag about Thanos' intelligence and awe-inspiring prep skills. Your bias is disgusting.

What follows next is Jimmy Olsen growing to massive proportions, empowered by the New Gods. Darkseid also grows and proceeds to beat his ass down, and finally being on the verge of killing him when they were interrupted.

Furthermore, I propose that a pissed off Superman (like a warrior madness Thor), are not high heralds, but Trans+.

"They'd (the JLA) just be getting in my way". Supes wanted to face Darkseid alone.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
"They'd (the JLA) just be getting in my way". Supes wanted to face Darkseid alone.

To bad Darkseid is low to mid Herald.

facepalm

Originally posted by quanchi112
Here's the difference as this has already occurred. Thanos did fight Thor not only not holding back but backed by a huge amp the power gem. Thanos fought him despite knowing physical punishment wouldn't defeat him and easily won. Thanos has never lost to Thor whereas Darkseid has repeatedly stalemated him and lost to him. Darkseid has lost to Superman without any amps and to the point he admitted humiliation in a fair one on one battle to which Seid begged for mercy. That's about as abysmal of a loss as can be.
Thanos and Thor's fights are irrelevant. It was a hypothetical situation

Originally posted by quanchi112
Olsen didn't know what he was doing with his powers and Seid always controlled them until Ray Palmer destroyed his connection.
You can say Olsen didn't know how to use his powers, but there are still a few things to take away from this:
1. Olsen had used his powers, quite effectively (albeit not intentionally)
2. Darkseid grew to massive proportions (We know the fourth world is big, never seen that before in the 3rd world)
3. Darkseid more or less 1 shot Olsen, so Olsen's skill doesn't matter



Originally posted by quanchi112
Then at the end Orion ripped his heart out.
Pissed off Orion is also > HH. Besides, Darkseid survived.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor can be a trans all he wants even with an amp he isn't beating Thanos whereas Superman has crushed Darkseid before and Superman has never beaten Orion. I guess since Superman stalemates and is seen as a peer to Captain Marvel he's another example of a trans. LOL.

You're trying to create equivalencies where none exist. You're saying Thor can't beat Thanos, and Superman can (maybe) beat Darkseid, so Thanos > Darkseid. This doesn't take into account that pissed off Superman > Thor, rendering your analogy meaningless.

Captain Marvel is only normal Superman's peer. Pissed off Superman would beat him back into a child state. Again, missed comparison. Ditto for Orion. You're missing the point here, which is the Superman's state of mind greatly impacts his power, and characters that can hang with him when he's calm don't have a prayer when he's angry.

Originally posted by carver9
To bad Darkseid is low to mid Herald.

censored

Originally posted by Batman-Prime


That's the problem. People still think Superman is just another Herald, while he is portrayed often enough to be above herald level, and is treated like a cosmic being. He is a cosmic being, a nexus being. Any other Herald would get stomped by Darkseid.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
facepalm

Mid Meta?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
"They'd (the JLA) just be getting in my way". Supes wanted to face Darkseid alone.
Of course because Darkseid is a pussy and can easily be handled by a solo Superman.

Originally posted by Cogito
Thanos and Thor's fights are irrelevant. It was a hypothetical situation


You can say Olsen didn't know how to use his powers, but there are still a few things to take away from this:
1. Olsen had used his powers, quite effectively (albeit not intentionally)
2. Darkseid grew to massive proportions (We know the fourth world is big, never seen that before in the 3rd world)
3. Darkseid more or less 1 shot Olsen, so Olsen's skill doesn't matter




Pissed off Orion is also > HH. Besides, Darkseid survived.



You're trying to create equivalencies where none exist. You're saying Thor can't beat Thanos, and Superman can (maybe) beat Darkseid, so Thanos > Darkseid. This doesn't take into account that pissed off Superman > Thor, rendering your analogy meaningless.

Captain Marvel is only normal Superman's peer. Pissed off Superman would beat him back into a child state. Again, missed comparison. Ditto for Orion. You're missing the point here, which is the Superman's state of mind greatly impacts his power, and characters that can hang with him when he's calm don't have a prayer when he's angry.



censored They aren't irrelevant as Thanos never loses or is hard pressed against any elite top tier hero by himself under normal circumstances. You want to pick and choose and hide what comics tell us to be the case.

1.If he used them through Darkseid then he didn't really have control over them and any real experience with them without Seid's control.

2.Darkseid had access to the powers and then the connection was severed he shrank down again.

3.Olsen wasn't anything special nor did he know what he was doing so it wasn't impressive at all.

Pissed off Thor>>>Orion and even he pissed off and with an amp could do no more than cause Thanos' nostrils to bleed. Thanos is on another level Ds is on their same level. Big diff.

Team 2 obviously

It's pretty damn pathetic that after 6-7 years later, people are still using the same lame ass argument, that if "Superman can do something, so can this character". In the case of Darkseid, the reason it's so asinine on the behalf of the posters that use it, is because.....

1. Superman has only beaten Ds cleanly twice in canon.

2. Even then one of those match ups was a h2h brawl, a fight that any other character in this thread could conceivably lose.

3. The other is.........drum roll folks.......the lowest showing in his entire history. In Apokolips Now he looked liked a piece of shit and even begged liked a homeless crack whore. It was not only a disgraceful display of his power, it was practically out of character.

4. In both of those fights didn't properly utilize his power set. Darkseid can theoretically exploit Superman's weakness, without the help of Jimmy Olsen.facepalm He's created everything from simple paper, to a f#cking Starship the size of New york and even empowered/depowered high herald level characters. So why the hell can't he create a chunk of kryptonite out of thin air? Contrary to popular belief (Or in other words the rampant stupidity that floods this thread) Ds's Superman showings aren't accurate representations of how he would fair against other characters, especially those in the Marvel Universe. To say if "Superman can do it so can tSS/Thor/Thanos etc" is as asinine as saying "if John Cena can beat this guy, So can Samoa Joe/Aj Styles/ blah blah,". Even though those particular characters wouldn't match up the same outside of their respected universes. Which brings me to my next point.

6.Darkseids has been portrayed as Supes secondary archenemy ever since Superman the Animated series. Yes the same Superman that's the flagship character of the Dcu and has beaten or held his own against a few transcendent levelers. It's natural that he loses to Supes on a few occasions.

7. Even with those low showings taken into consideration, Ds has one shotted virtually every other mid to high herald character in the Dcu.

I'm pretty sure that all these points I made will either go ignored, or poorly retorted by Quanchi. I don't give a flying f#ck, if so many nimrods cling to the same old shit after this long nothing I can say will change their opinions I suppose.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
It's pretty damn pathetic that after 6-7 years later, people are still using the same lame ass argument, that if "Superman can do something, so can this character". In the case of Darkseid, the reason it's so asinine on the behalf of the posters that use it, is because.....

1. Superman has only beaten Ds cleanly twice in canon.

2. Even then one of those match ups was a h2h brawl, a fight that any other character in this thread could conceivably lose.

3. The other is.........drum roll folks.......the lowest showing in his entire history. In Apokolips Now he looked liked a piece of shit and even begged liked a homeless crack whore. It was not only a disgraceful display of his power, it was practically out of character.

4. In both of those fights didn't properly utilize his power set. Darkseid can theoretically exploit Superman's weakness, without the help of Jimmy Olsen.facepalm He's created everything from simple paper, to a f#cking Starship the size of New york and even empowered/depowered high herald level characters. So why the hell can't he create a chunk of kryptonite out of thin air? Contrary to popular belief (Or in other words the rampant stupidity that floods this thread) Ds's Superman showings aren't accurate representations of how he would fair against other characters, especially those in the Marvel Universe. To say if "Superman can do it so can tSS/Thor/Thanos etc" is as asinine as saying "if John Cena can beat this guy, So can Samoa Joe/Aj Styles/ blah blah,". Even though those particular characters wouldn't match up the same outside of their respected universes. Which brings me to my next point.

6.Darkseids has been portrayed as Supes secondary archenemy ever since Superman the Animated series. Yes the same Superman that's the flagship character of the Dcu and has beaten or held his own against a few transcendent levelers. It's natural that he loses to Supes on a few occasions.

7. Even with those low showings taken into consideration, Ds has one shotted virtually every other mid to high herald character in the Dcu.

I'm pretty sure that all these points I made will either go ignored, or poorly retorted by Quanchi. I don't give a flying f#ck, if so many nimrods cling to the same old shit after this long nothing I can say will change their opinions I suppose.

Couldn't have said it better

Originally posted by Cogito
Couldn't have said it better

Originally posted by Cogito
Couldn't have said it better It's the same old I will ignore what I don't like kind of arguments.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
It's pretty damn pathetic that after 6-7 years later, people are still using the same lame ass argument, that if "Superman can do something, so can this character". In the case of Darkseid, the reason it's so asinine on the behalf of the posters that use it, is because.....

1. Superman has only beaten Ds cleanly twice in canon.

2. Even then one of those match ups was a h2h brawl, a fight that any other character in this thread could conceivably lose.

3. The other is.........drum roll folks.......the lowest showing in his entire history. In Apokolips Now he looked liked a piece of shit and even begged liked a homeless crack whore. It was not only a disgraceful display of his power, it was practically out of character.

4. In both of those fights didn't properly utilize his power set. Darkseid can theoretically exploit Superman's weakness, without the help of Jimmy Olsen.facepalm He's created everything from simple paper, to a f#cking Starship the size of New york and even empowered/depowered high herald level characters. So why the hell can't he create a chunk of kryptonite out of thin air? Contrary to popular belief (Or in other words the rampant stupidity that floods this thread) Ds's Superman showings aren't accurate representations of how he would fair against other characters, especially those in the Marvel Universe. To say if "Superman can do it so can tSS/Thor/Thanos etc" is as asinine as saying "if John Cena can beat this guy, So can Samoa Joe/Aj Styles/ blah blah,". Even though those particular characters wouldn't match up the same outside of their respected universes. Which brings me to my next point.

6.Darkseids has been portrayed as Supes secondary archenemy ever since Superman the Animated series. Yes the same Superman that's the flagship character of the Dcu and has beaten or held his own against a few transcendent levelers. It's natural that he loses to Supes on a few occasions.

7. Even with those low showings taken into consideration, Ds has one shotted virtually every other mid to high herald character in the Dcu.

I'm pretty sure that all these points I made will either go ignored, or poorly retorted by Quanchi. I don't give a flying f#ck, if so many nimrods cling to the same old shit after this long nothing I can say will change their opinions I suppose.

Yes, though it will be completly ignored by the pro-Thanos fraction, it's their only way to put him over Darkseid. Lowball Darkseid with Superman, lowball Superman with other Heralds...

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Yes, though it will be completly ignored by the pro-Thanos fraction, it's their only way to put him over Darkseid. Lowball Darkseid with Superman, lowball Superman with other Heralds... Raker, Orion, and the Doomsday curb of Darkseid also seem to spring to mind on top of batman rocking him as well. It isn't just Superman there are other examples I mean even Black Adam seemed to do better against the Spectre than Darkseid who was oneshotted to the bone.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Raker, Orion, and the Doomsday curb of Darkseid also seem to spring to mind on top of batman rocking him as well. It isn't just Superman there are other examples I mean even Black Adam seemed to do better against the Spectre than Darkseid who was oneshotted to the bone.

Batman rocking him? wallbash

Batman shot a severely weakened Darkseid him with a bullet made of the one substance fatal to New Gods.

and don't you dare bring the Spectre into this. Not only does he have nothing to do with any of these characters, everyone knows his power fluctuates wildly from pathetic to godly. Besides, what the %#! does Black Adam fighting Spectre have to do with any of the characters here? Are baseless and irrelevant comparisons the only thing you've got?

Originally posted by Cogito
Batman rocking him? wallbash

Batman shot a severely weakened Darkseid him with a bullet made of the one substance fatal to New Gods.

and don't you dare bring the Spectre into this. Not only does he have nothing to do with any of these characters, everyone knows his power fluctuates wildly from pathetic to godly. Besides, what the %#! does Black Adam fighting Spectre have to do with any of the characters here? Are baseless and irrelevant comparisons the only thing you've got? Darkseid wasn't weakened he just got his powers back.

The comparison of Black Adam to Darkseid's performance against the Spectre speaks volumes to me. Every character varies from writer to writer it's just another thing you want to ignore. I just wanted to illustrate the point it isn't just Superman who makes darkseid look bad.

Originally posted by Cogito
Batman rocking him? wallbash

Batman shot a severely weakened Darkseid him with a bullet made of the one substance fatal to New Gods.

and don't you dare bring the Spectre into this. Not only does he have nothing to do with any of these characters, everyone knows his power fluctuates wildly from pathetic to godly. Besides, what the %#! does Black Adam fighting Spectre have to do with any of the characters here? Are baseless and irrelevant comparisons the only thing you've got?



People will also bring Orion into this but they will ignore that it's his destiny to kill Darkseid. Like Drax was Thanos kryptonite so is Orion the weakness of Darkseid in the end.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime


People will also bring Orion into this but they will ignore that it's his destiny to kill Darkseid. Like Drax was Thanos kryptonite so is Orion the weakness of Darkseid in the end. Orion already killed Darkseid so destiny was already achieved. Drax was stated on panel to be his silver bullet unlike Orion who did so by sheer force not like he was created to kill Darkseid just that he was powerful enough to do so. Drax was created for the sole purpose of destroying Thanos so it's not comparable either.

Originally posted by Cogito
Batman rocking him? wallbash

Batman shot a severely weakened Darkseid him with a bullet made of the one substance fatal to New Gods.


He was talking about the Batkick that made him bleed, I bet the FC one nvr even crossed his mind

So, basically, what I hear is:

Darkseid's losses to Superman are PIS

and/or

It's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid occasionally due to Superman's status and power level. No other high herald can replicate the same victories though because they clearly aren't Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, basically, what I hear is:

Darkseid's losses to Superman are PIS

and/or

It's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid occasionally due to Superman's status and power level. No other high herald can replicate the same victories though because they clearly aren't Superman.

Basically.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
3. The other is.........drum roll folks.......the lowest showing in his entire history. In Apokolips Now he looked liked a piece of shit and even begged liked a homeless crack whore. It was not only a disgraceful display of his power, it was practically out of character. http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/447-oh-u-mad.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/447-oh-u-mad.jpg http://www.tinygif.com/data/media/15/steve-austin.gif

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid wasn't weakened he just got his powers back.

The comparison of Black Adam to Darkseid's performance against the Spectre speaks volumes to me. Every character varies from writer to writer it's just another thing you want to ignore. I just wanted to illustrate the point it isn't just Superman who makes darkseid look bad.

Darkseid wasn't weakend? He wasn't even in his own body. I don't know what part of that makes him seem 100% normal to you.

Spectre's power doesn't just vary from writer to writer. I realize that happens with every character and we all accept that as a fact. But Spectre's powerset by definition is variable. And even if this were a valid comparison, and believe me it's not..

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Yes, though it will be completly ignored by the pro-Thanos fraction, it's their only way to put him over Darkseid. Lowball Darkseid with Superman, lowball Superman with other Heralds...

Originally posted by carver9
To bad Darkseid is low to mid Herald.
I felt your stupidity all the way from my Uncle's house in Belgium.

Congratulations.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, basically, what I hear is:

Darkseid's losses to Superman are PIS

and/or

It's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid occasionally due to Superman's status and power level. No other high herald can replicate the same victories though because they clearly aren't Superman.
I'm not going to say Surfer or Thor can't possibly beat Darkseid, just that given how different their powersets are (neither Thor nor Surfer are the super fast physical powerhouse that Superman is in a close-in fight) its fallacious to take Superman's victories over Darkseid as proof in of itself that any other Herald can beat Darkseid.

You'd have to ante up and provide more evidence of any given Herald's ability to beat Darkseid than just saying "Superman did it, ergo X can too"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not going to say Surfer or Thor can't possibly beat Darkseid, just that given how different their powersets are (neither Thor nor Surfer are the super fast physical powerhouse that Superman is in a close-in fight) its fallacious to take Superman's victories over Darkseid as proof in of itself that any other Herald can beat Darkseid.

You'd have to ante up and provide more evidence of any given Herald's ability to beat Darkseid than just saying "Superman did it, ergo X can too"

Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo.
I'm really not sure how anyone with any sense and any knowledge of Darkseid as a character and his abilities could read Apokolips Now and not call it PIS.

Superman/Batman is a much safer example, we don't have Superman defeating Darkseid in a manner that he should given his powerset be capable of easily overcoming, there we have a sunamped Superman just wrecking Darkseid across the Cosmos and then sticking him into the Source Wall.

I think if Superman in that state (amped, pissed, and going all out) caught either Surfer or Thor on his proverbial horns they'd end up in the same state as Darkseid, or worse.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime


That's the problem. People still think Superman is just another Herald, while he is portrayed often enough to be above herald level, and is treated like a cosmic being. He is a cosmic being, a nexus being. Any other Herald would get stomped by Darkseid.

but serisously, DS has been watered down and is frequently crippled by pis or cis when dealing with SM, he really shouldnt be defeated by any herald

Originally posted by 753


but serisously, DS has been watered down and is frequently crippled by pis or cis when dealing with SM, he really shouldnt be defeated by any herald

He is a nexus being, even a cosmic one. Stated on panel.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He is a nexus being, even a cosmic one. Stated on panel. but that has to do with is role in the universe, not with his power level. he aint no abstract. he is a high herald that occasioanlly punches into the trans level class and beyond, like the other high heralds. I feel SM only wins against DS because DS is jobbed to the flagship character. IE: it doesnt matter how powerful a couple of laser beams are, the OE should simply remove them from existence

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those were the main two I was thinking of. Given their feats and how they rank in power and versatility, they could each give Darkseid an ass kicking, imo.

Agreed

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo. Thanks for not reading my post, because if you did you'd realize that I clearly stated that one of Ds's defeats was a slugfest. Anyone else in this thread could possibly be bested in h2h by Supes, yes even Thanos. Other than that, Superman has only completely overpowered Darkseid once and even then it was by far the lowest showing he's ever had. Lower than being kicked by Batman, because even then he had the excuse being in a weakened state.

Don't let this forums bullshit regarding Darkseid fool you. Posters on here have been blowing his low showings out of proportion since the beginning of time. I remember when some idiots were trying to low ball him when he fell down steps, like it had any relevance to the threads they where posting in.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
that just a forum injoke, nobody uses that as a serious display

Darkseid vs Colossus would be a good thread to make.

Originally posted by 753
that just a forum injoke, nobody uses that as a serious display When that occured, some idiots got the idea that Ds is a joke. Yes some where using it as a joke.............others where dead serious.

Originally posted by Cogito
Darkseid wasn't weakend? He wasn't even in his own body. I don't know what part of that makes him seem 100% normal to you.

Spectre's power doesn't just vary from writer to writer. I realize that happens with every character and we all accept that as a fact. But Spectre's powerset by definition is variable. And even if this were a valid comparison, and believe me it's not.. Darkseid was in his normal body when Batman batkicked him in a superman/batman comic right before he fled the scene against a po'd Superman.

So you admit everyone's character varies from writer to writer so thus me bringing up Black Adam against a dov Spectre is actually a better example since imo he was more powerful than the Hal Jordan Spectre.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo. Nicely done jake. You just solo'd this thread. Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm really not sure how anyone with any sense and any knowledge of Darkseid as a character and his abilities could read Apokolips Now and not call it PIS.

Superman/Batman is a much safer example, we don't have Superman defeating Darkseid in a manner that he should given his powerset be capable of easily overcoming, there we have a sunamped Superman just wrecking Darkseid across the Cosmos and then sticking him into the Source Wall.

I think if Superman in that state (amped, pissed, and going all out) caught either Surfer or Thor on his proverbial horns they'd end up in the same state as Darkseid, or worse. You have no proof for the Superman can do the same thing to Thor or Surfer and by the same unprovable logic if Thor caught Superman in his blood and thunder mood or Surfer did when going all out and for broke Superman might end up broken as well.

What we do know is Superman has broken Darkseid on panel and that Darkseid isn't beyond high herald since Orion also has done the same. You can't dismiss everything just because you believe Darkseid shouldn't lose in this manner. Your opinion is irrelevant when viewing the evidence the writers decide what the evidence is not you.

The funniest thing is it just isn't one writer who has chosen to put Superman and Darkseid as capable of beating the other and in the same league.

Originally posted by carver9
Darkseid vs Colossus would be a good thread to make.

You are now trolling Carver, seriously.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He is a nexus being, even a cosmic one. Stated on panel.

Every being step above and beyond their tier "every now and then". Jubilee even steps above her tier sometimes. Its called "high showings" and out of all of the Heralds, Thor has the best and consistent high showings out of the bunch.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You are now trolling Carver, seriously.

I'm just messin with ya. I was foreal on my previous post though.

If Superman had been able to beat Darkseid because of some unique ability that only he possessed then I could understand someone arguing that Surfer or Thor couldn't do the same, even though I may disagree. But it wasn't a unique ability, it was speed and brute force plain and simple. There is no evidence that Superman is significantly stronger than Thor or significantly faster than Silver Surfer. That being said, Blue Marvel could sit this one out. Thanos takes out Surfer and Thor, Superman takes out Darkseid, game over.

Originally posted by carver9
To bad Darkseid is low to mid Herald. LOL this guy...

Originally posted by carver9
Mid Meta?

Darkseid is arguably greater than High Father - A sky father.

If he (DS) uses all of his abilities, he should defeat Superman. But when he fights like Zeus did against the Hullk, he loses.

He's not arguably better than Highfather.

He IS better. It's been shown many times that at his absolute best Highfather is only a peer or rough equal of Darkseid, most of the time he's inferior.

That being said I don't consider Highfather as a Skyfather in the same class as someone like Odin. I think he's High Trans-Low Skyfather.

So also give DS and Highfather the majority over Thanos right?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So also give DS and Highfather the majority over Thanos right?
Highfather no. I probably shouldn't have said High Trans-Low Skyfather, probably should have said Trans. I think in terms of status/ "implied" power he's prolly Low Skyfather, but in terms of feats he's just not up there.

But you know my stance on DS vs Thanos.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So also give DS and Highfather the majority over Thanos right?

Isn't Thanos an Abstract now? Or beyond Skyfathers at the very very least?

biggrin

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Isn't Thanos an Abstract now? Or beyond Skyfathers at the very very least?

biggrin

Aren't you still wrong the majority of time you post. I would never ask you that question, because unlike Omega, you really have no clue what you're talking about. Omega slightly overrates DS and Superman, but it's only a slight, while you're just way off. So there is a difference. Even Omega wouldn't give Superman much of a chance if at all against Thanos, you think Superman takes the majoirty against Thanos. That pretty much illustrates my point.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Aren't you still wrong the majority of time you post. I would never ask you that question, because unlike Omega, you really have no clue what you're talking about. Omega slightly overrates DS and Superman, but it's only a slight, while you're just way off. So there is a difference. Even Omega wouldn't give Superman much of a chance if at all against Thanos, you think Superman takes the majoirty against Thanos. That pretty much illustrates my point.

Just because I don't share your opinion or, let's call it enthusiasm of a Thanosi, doesn't mean I'm wrong most of the time.

So what level would you put Thanos in? Skyfather or higher?

And I'm glad you don't overrate Thanos at all, I really am .

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Just because I don't share your opinion or, let's call it enthusiasm of a Thanosi, doesn't mean I'm wrong most of the time.

So what level would you put Thanos in? Skyfather or higher?

And I'm glad you don't overrate Thanos at all, I really am .

Ummm okay... Thanos imo is around Low to Mid Skyfather.. if made to choose.. I would say more on the lower side than mid.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's not arguably better than Highfather.

He IS better. It's been shown many times that at his absolute best Highfather is only a peer or rough equal of Darkseid, most of the time he's inferior.

That being said I don't consider Highfather as a Skyfather in the same class as someone like Odin. I think he's High Trans-Low Skyfather. There is no proof whatsoever High Father is anywhere close to where you put him. He's been easily bested by a prepared Ares and has lost to Darkseid before. What victories does he have to make such a statement ?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Darkseid is arguably greater than High Father - A sky father.

If he (DS) uses all of his abilities, he should defeat Superman. But when he fights like Zeus did against the Hullk, he loses. He did use his omega effect against Superman and wasn't just hand to hand. Zeus is a skyfather in the sense even at Hulk's forte Zeus still easily pwned him. That's skyfather status.