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Either DC or Marvel, which characters can defeat Galactus in single combat? Would it consist mainly of cosmic entities?

not odin http://i54.tinypic.com/2ymgaq1.gif

Originally posted by psycho gundam
not odin http://i54.tinypic.com/2ymgaq1.gif Hopefully

well, odin has the plot seed so you never know. they have to show off how cool it is

couldn't galactus have nabbed it before odin's grandfather was born? i mean, galactus was the FIRST being in the 616 universe, even predates abstracts

kirby is spinning

Mostly cosmics in the Marvel U, DC doesn't really do cosmics like Marvel does.

Are we talking any character that's ever existed, or just currently living ones? Does Big G have the UN? (would narrow the list down a fair bit)

Any character from any era, Galactus does not have UN and is not weakened by a need to consume.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
well, odin has the plot seed so you never know. they have to show off how cool it is

couldn't galactus have nabbed it before odin's grandfather was born? i mean, galactus was the FIRST being in the 616 universe, even predates abstracts

kirby is spinning

According to this story, Odin predates Galactus. At least, the entity that was created by the World Seed. Not sure about his original incarnation, Galan.

Originally posted by oaa
Any character from any era, Galactus does not have UN and is not weakened by a need to consume.

So are you talking about Galactus at the height of his power? When he's supposed to be an equal to both Eternity and Death?

Originally posted by oaa
Any character from any era, Galactus does not have UN and is not weakened by a need to consume.

I'll take a stab at this, but don't expect this list to be at all complete.

Marvel:
TOAA (God, not celestial)
Anyone with HOTU
LT
Eternity, Infinity, Abraxas, Death, Oblivion, Chaos King
Scathan, Tiamut (maybe...skeptical of PIS and stupid writing especially for Scathan)
Infinity Gauntlet users
HoM Scarlet Witch
MJJ
PR Beyonder
PR Molecule Man
Vishanti


DC:
The Presence/God
Primal Monitor
Source
Spectre (higher showings)
Michael
Lucifer
The Word
Mandrakk
Anti-Monitor
Synnar
ZH Parallax
Classic Ion
5D Imps (Mxy, Bat-Mite)
The Endless (Maybe...they have minimal feats, mostly speculation)
CA Superman
GEB
Ultimator
SF Darkseid

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
According to this story, Odin predates Galactus. At least, the entity that was created by the World Seed. Not sure about his original incarnation, Galan.

Again, that's not true and was never stated. The Seed will create the next Galactus...never said anything about creating the current one

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
According to this story, Odin predates Galactus. At least, the entity that was created by the World Seed. Not sure about his original incarnation, Galan. it says odin predates G?

Originally posted by 753
it says odin predates G?

I don't think Rage read the same The Mighty Thor #3 as I did, if he found that anywhere in that comic.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
Again, that's not true and was never stated. The Seed will create the next Galactus...never said anything about creating the current one and odin might be lying just the same. galactus was incubated for billios of years, but that does not mean he was inside the seed. besides, the whole timeline fo the seeds adn trees is confused

Originally posted by oaa
Either DC or Marvel, which characters can defeat Galactus in single combat? Would it consist mainly of cosmic entities?

Spectre with Jim Corrigan host.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
According to this story, Odin predates Galactus. At least, the entity that was created by the World Seed. Not sure about his original incarnation, Galan. That doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by Mindset
That doesn't make any sense. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/user_sigs/1/9/customsig_83719_UD.gif

Originally posted by Mindset
That doesn't make any sense.

That would mean Asgard predates the 616 universe.

Except it's IN the 616 universe.

Originally posted by cdtm
That would mean Asgard predates the 616 universe.

Except it's IN the 616 universe.

Originally posted by cdtm
That would mean Asgard predates the 616 universe.

Except it's IN the 616 universe. Chicken or egg?

If that Seed is so important and all why did Big G only came with Surfer and not all Heralds?

Zombie Luke Cage.

In THOR #619 Odin says that he was present when his father planted the seed/egg which created the World Tree.

Galactus succeeded this event.

All I know is Galactus preceded the 616 universe.

Originally posted by oaa
Either DC or Marvel, which characters can defeat Galactus in single combat? Would it consist mainly of cosmic entities?

Supergirl Prime.

Originally posted by Wodenson
In THOR #619 Odin says that he was present when his father planted the seed/egg which created the World Tree.

Galactus succeeded this event. so the seed odin has is the same that originated the world tree? did G too too come from the same seed? after the tree came from it? how do you know that? didnt the seed become the tree?

this contradicts way too much established marvel history and makes no sense, galan came before the 616 universe itself emerged as Galactus in time to battle the proemial Gods when life was emerging, long before the lesser Gods came to be.

Wait, I thought Galactus was born from the Cosmic Egg, not a seed in the World Tree?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Wait, I thought Galactus was born from the Cosmic Egg, not a seed in the World Tree? odin says the seed is an egg, so it might be the cosmic egg. even then, why should G have emerged from it before the WT? Is it even the same seed or did this one come from the current WT?

I'm so lost.

What's with the companies (Marvel/DC) trying to shit on established continuity?

Originally posted by Galan007
What's with the companies (Marvel/DC) trying to shit on established continuity? No clue, one of the reasons I just stopped reading comics.

Same here.

It's the same egg. As long as it exists, the universe will go through a cycle of destruction and rebirth. Galactus is a product of this cycle. That is why he is after the egg. So that he can end the cycle and live indefinitely.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5282/seed01.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3540/seed02.jpg

Originally posted by Wodenson
That is why he is after the egg. http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/erinxox/smash.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/erinxox/smash.jpg
Next panel
http://bimg4.skala4u.ch/wp-content/gallery/ostern/osterei_6.jpg

It doesn't contradict much except the Elder Gods stuff.

Originally posted by Wodenson
It's the same egg. As long as it exists, the universe will go through a cycle of destruction and rebirth. Galactus is a product of this cycle. That is why he is after the egg. So that he can end the cycle and live indefinitely.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5282/seed01.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3540/seed02.jpg so Odin's lying ass says. he actually probably doesnt understand G's motivations. he has never displayed any desrie to stop the cycle or move against universal balance, in fact, it's always the opposite.

regardless, theres no reason to assume G came after Bor planted it

It's not an assumption.

Wodenson, come at me bro.

Originally posted by Wodenson
It's not an assumption. oh really? where does it say that G emerged from the egg after the tree?

Thor #3. It doesn't specifically say that Galactus came after the tree, but it does say he came after the seed for the tree was planted.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Thor #3. It doesn't specifically say that Galactus came after the tree, but it does say he came after the seed for the tree was planted.

The Mighty Thor #3?

That comic stated nothing of the sort. It's fully possible that Galactus as a being emerged after the seed was planted, which is possible since he was in hybernation for millions of years on his spaceship in orbit around the wanderes world.

The Migthy Thor #3 stated that the Seed will birth the next Galactus exactly like it happened last time, by drawing all matter into itself and then exploding. That Galactus was born from the world tree after the seed was planted is pure speculation, and until a official retcon happens, my assumptions concerning Galactus will still be that he was created through a fusion between Galan and the previous Universe Eternity, as it have been established like what, 4-5 times? Else you are pretty much taking 40-50+ years of established cosmic 101 and flushing it down the toilet.

So wait, Galan, from the previous universe, became one with Eternity of the previous universe during the death/big crunch of that universe, being housed inside of a "cosmic egg". During the Big Bang of the current 616, this Cosmic Egg which Galactus was inside of gestating, is expelled and ends up in a solar system somewhere out there (according to the original story). In original continuity, Galactus emerges from his egg/gestation chamber after millions of years and then sets about creating his Armor and Taa II in the solar system he hatched in. Then later it is added to his story that Galactus was active back before the Elder Gods and other concepts not part of the Cosmic Compass (that being Death, Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, and I suppose Order and Chaos and Mephisto for some reason) were conceived of and the Proemial Gods (Tenebrous and Co) existed as a kind of cosmic place holder until the rest of the universe took form.

Now, with this new thing with the Asgardians finding and planting a "Galactus Seed", is this the seed/egg that will, upon the death/Big Crunch of the 616, be the vessel for 616 Eternity and whichever being it is from this universe that becomes Galactus in the new universe, or is it something else entirely?

Originally posted by Wodenson
Thor #3. It doesn't specifically say that Galactus came after the tree, but it does say he came after the seed for the tree was planted. no it does not. we know that G hibernated for billions of years in a cosmic egg (that may or may not have been created by the phoenix) while merging with the remains of the previous eternity. there is no reason to assume he emerged after bor planted the seed. the idea that asgardians preceed the proemial gods that preced the elder gods is bs too.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
So wait, Galan, from the previous universe, became one with Eternity of the previous universe during the death/big crunch of that universe, being housed inside of a "cosmic egg". During the Big Bang of the current 616, this Cosmic Egg which Galactus was inside of gestating, is expelled and ends up in a solar system somewhere out there (according to the original story). In original continuity, Galactus emerges from his egg/gestation chamber after millions of years and then sets about creating his Armor and Taa II in the solar system he hatched in. Then later it is added to his story that Galactus was active back before the Elder Gods and other concepts not part of the Cosmic Compass (that being Death, Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, and I suppose Order and Chaos and Mephisto for some reason) were conceived of and the Proemial Gods (Tenebrous and Co) existed as a kind of cosmic place holder until the rest of the universe took form.

Now, with this new thing with the Asgardians finding and planting a "Galactus Seed", is this the seed/egg that will, upon the death/Big Crunch of the 616, be the vessel for 616 Eternity and whichever being it is from this universe that becomes Galactus in the new universe, or is it something else entirely? we can assume he hatched form the cosmic egg and many billions of years later, Bor found it elsewhere. G's emergence might have blown the thing away for all we know. this preserves continuity and includes the possibilty of Odin knowing what he is talking about

The first stage of acceptance is denial. Deep breath, guys. It will be alright.

Cosmic fans the world over are all on suicide watch.

Originally posted by 753
it says odin predates G? Originally posted by Utrigita
I don't think Rage read the same The Mighty Thor #3 as I did, if he found that anywhere in that comic. Originally posted by Mindset
That doesn't make any sense. Originally posted by Wodenson
In THOR #619 Odin says that he was present when his father planted the seed/egg which created the World Tree.

Galactus succeeded this event.
Pretty much what he said. The Cosmic/World Tree Seed is what will cause this Universe to end and in turn give birth to the new Galactus.

Odin seemed to be present during the previous cycle before the entity Galactus emerged.

I have no doubt that such a revelation will ruffle a few feathers. We can wait until the arc ends or Fraction makes a statement explaining the entire thing to conclusively end the discussion.

Squirrel Girl can beat Galactus and has fought him before

In THOR 619, Odin explains that his family existed in the "Time-Before-Time"... in the "dying days of the Long-Now that ended with the birth of everything." (Translation: the end of the previous universe)

Bor found the seed within a fissure in time-space. When he planted the seed, it gave rise to the World Tree which ended the "Long-Now" (previous universe), and created the Nine Worlds.

In MIGHTY THOR #3, the Silver Surfer says that the seed is an artifact from the "Time-Before-Time" (referencing Bor's era) and that it predates everyone.

When the Surfer leaves, Odin tells Thor that the seed survives the destruction of each universe, and then regurgitates that energy to create a new universe; a new World Tree; a new Galactus. The seed maintains that cycle.

Take from that what you will.

So, like I said, this 'Galactus seed' is now supposed to be the vessel that the current 616 Eternity and whatever being it is that will become the next universe's Galactus will be contained within to gestate after the Big Crunch, and the current Galactus, who was Galan, hatched from this same apparently recycled egg in the previous cycle that predates the current universe. Somewhere intermingled in all this, apparently, the Asgardian Gods existed at some time in the previous universe as well as in the current, which would be odd because I thought the existence of sentient life gave rise to the Gods. How are they going to explain that one. And where do those beings that kept Ragnarok going and were eventually killed by Thor fit into this?

No one considers the Elder God retcon when writing a story anymore. The notion that Asgardians were created by man and not vise versa is not something I see referenced anymore. Not in the Thor issues at least. The angle was quickly forgotten even in the Thor title.

We'll see what Fraction's take is on all this either in Thor or Fear Itself but five gets you ten, Odin and his ilk were old before man came into existence was created by the All Father.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cosmic fans the world over are all on suicide watch.


Pretty much what he said. The Cosmic/World Tree Seed is what will cause this Universe to end and in turn give birth to the new Galactus.

Odin seemed to be present during the previous cycle before the entity Galactus emerged.

I have no doubt that such a revelation will ruffle a few feathers. We can wait until the arc ends or Fraction makes a statement explaining the entire thing to conclusively end the discussion. OK, it doesn't make sense.

Get over it brah.

Tiamut the Communicator

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Get over it brah. Nothing to get over.

It doesn't make sense; case closed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Get over it brah.

How many times have you bitched about the crap that is Fraction's writing? sneer

Originally posted by batdude123
How many times have you bitched about the crap that is Fraction's writing? sneer That was before it was pro Thor
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Get over it brah.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/user_sigs/1/9/customsig_83719_UD.gif

Originally posted by Mindset
Nothing to get over.

It doesn't make sense; case closed.
It makes sense. You're just not smart enough to get it.

Originally posted by batdude123
How many times have you bitched about the crap that is Fraction's writing? sneer

g_serious

When the run's over, I'm just going to pretend it never happened. For now, I'll just try my best to enjoy it. I've already dropped the title, I can't do anything else. Except going through with my plan to kill him. I was only going to end him if the result of the Surfer/Thor confrontation favored the bald and glinting bastard but it doesn't matter anymore.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It makes sense. You're just not smart enough to get it.



I'm too smart, that's why I know it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
That was before it was pro Thor Originally posted by Mindset
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/user_sigs/1/9/customsig_83719_UD.gif
http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/62762ba6-8c5e-41ad-9abf-2dc02e66b0a3.gif

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm too smart, that's why I know it doesn't make sense.
http://rockstarchan.org/troll/src/130249827557.gif

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No one considers the Elder God retcon when writing a story anymore.

This. It's over. The Elder God angle was because Marvel had the Conan properties and was trying to integrate Set and crew into Marvel continuity. Now that they lost the rights, the party's over.

And back on topic : Odin is probably gonna do it in the up and coming Thor issue. Odin + Destroyer Armor in Asgard = Dead Galactus.

Nope, you're wrong.

And yet it was completely powerless against the celestials?

Thanos.

this has the heavy stench of "the thor movie performed well so let's make odin even more super ZOMG! awesome. let's make him galactus's sort of grandfather."


it doesn't really matter though; Galan & the eternity of the previous universe predate odin. that is, of course, until they retcon a story into continuity where galan was really a clone of odin who was displaced in the previous universe.


oh, & galactus stomps odin all day everyday. odin & asgard were defeated by space ants with ray guns. and gruel.

hmmmmmm........this does not bode well, i like the asgardians, but i feel like the wankage has gone on far enough, hopefully this seed is nothing more than a vessel of great power that will sate galactus' hunger..and nothing more, the backstory although clever would disrupt too much history and id be forced to drop the book

Originally posted by King Kandy
And yet it was completely powerless against the celestials?

This argument was always flawed. At the time, the Celestials were intended to be beyond other entities, including Cosmics like Galactus. He'd have done no better than the Destroyer. Would have done worse unless he recently fed I'd wager. It should be noted, that this was at a point in time where Thomas was actively trying to tone down the Asgardians so they could better fit with the rest of the Marvel Universe. The shit he pulled was stupid and unnecessary.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
hmmmmmm........this does not bode well, i like the asgardians, but i feel like the wankage has gone on far enough, hopefully this seed is nothing more than a vessel of great power that will sate galactus' hunger..and nothing more, the backstory although clever would disrupt too much history and id be forced to drop the book


you mean mork & mindy aren't going to leap out of the new seed/egg?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
At the time, the Celestials were intended to be beyond other entities, including Cosmics like Galactus. "At the time"? Personally, I can't remember an instance where Celestials weren't portrayed beyond most other cosmic entities..?

Originally posted by wildernesss
you mean mork & mindy aren't going to leap out of the new seed/egg?

.......are you baiting me sweetie

Originally posted by wildernesss
this has the heavy stench of "the thor movie performed well so let's make odin even more super ZOMG! awesome. let's make him galactus's sort of grandfather."


it doesn't really matter though; Galan & the eternity of the previous universe predate odin. that is, of course, until they retcon a story into continuity where galan was really a clone of odin who was displaced in the previous universe.


oh, & galactus stomps odin all day everyday. odin & asgard were defeated by space ants with ray guns. and gruel.
You'd be wrong then. The movie only did modestly compared to titans such as the Spider-man or Batman franchises.
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thor.htm
When you add up the production budget + marketing budget and subtract that from it's gross (keeping in mind the reduced income for the studio because of the way overseas markets work) they just barely made any kind of money on this movie.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
hmmmmmm........this does not bode well, i like the asgardians, but i feel like the wankage has gone on far enough, hopefully this seed is nothing more than a vessel of great power that will sate galactus' hunger..and nothing more, the backstory although clever would disrupt too much history and id be forced to drop the book

This isn't new. Rage had scans he posted long before this saying that Bor planted the seed that became the world tree. Bor is basically the creator God of 616 reality.

My prediction on the upcoming throw down : Surfer wins because of Thor's injury but Thor puts up a hell of a fight. Galactus LOSES vs Odin but the collateral damage is huge and Surfer gets his hands on the Seed and restores everything. Wait and see.

Originally posted by Galan007
"At the time"? Personally, I can't remember an instance where Celestials weren't portrayed beyond most other cosmic entities..?

They've always been extremely powerful but in the 80's/Early 90's they were at their peak. Imho, it wouldn't have been smart money to bet on Galactus against a Celestial at the time.

Currently, I think the gap is smaller if there is one at all. They aren't as high up the food chain as they once were imo. At least, they aren't as respected/feared.

Any Celestial fans out there should be thanking the Asgardians. Thomas basically used them as a benchmark to show how awesome Kirby's creations were....by shitting on Kirby's other love child.

Originally posted by Galan007
"At the time"? Personally, I can't remember an instance where Celestials weren't portrayed beyond most other cosmic entities..?

What about the Thanos Imperative? They didn't do jack there and it took Death to save 616 reality.

Originally posted by zopzop
What about the Thanos Imperative? They didn't do jack there and it took Death to save 616 reality. They were busy helping contain the Galactus Engine. Doubt they knew Marv was the linchpin to the entire Cancerverse... Otherwise he likely would have had some bigger guns than Surfer/Thanos to contend with.

Originally posted by Galan007
They were busy helping contain the Galactus Engine. Doubt they knew Marv was the linchpin to the entire Cancerverse... Otherwise he likely would have had some bigger guns than Surfer/Thanos to contend with.

That's the thing though, they weren't shown just before it all ended. Only Galactus was left fending off the Engine. The Surfer even mentioned it on panel. Did they run? Have their M-bodies destroyed like Aegis? Or did they just give up and call it a day? Where were they?

Originally posted by zopzop
You'd be wrong then. The movie only did modestly compared to titans such as the Spider-man or Batman franchises.
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thor.htm
When you add up the production budget + marketing budget and subtract that from it's gross (keeping in mind the reduced income for the studio because of the way overseas markets work) they just barely made any kind of money on this movie.


it was a critical & financial success. but that aside, thor has multiple titles, minis, & is featured in avengers. silver surfer isn't in more than a mini series & the annhilators mini. to think that thor & odin aren't going to get a shiatsu massage chair & some pedestal feats service isn't far fetched imho.

Originally posted by zopzop
Where were they? They were taking a lunch break. Obviously.

@wildernesss

Did you even click the link I provided?

Originally posted by zopzop
@wildernesss

Did you even click the link I provided?


yup, but that doesn't mean it didn't perform well. it may not have been uber profitable, but it did do moderately well & was well received by critics. maybe i have a lower standard for success than you. anyway, dvd sales will be epic.

Originally posted by zopzop



This isn't new. Rage had scans he posted long before this saying that Bor planted the seed that became the world tree. Bor is basically the creator God of 616 reality.

My prediction on the upcoming throw down : Surfer wins because of Thor's injury but Thor puts up a hell of a fight. Galactus LOSES vs Odin but the collateral damage is huge and Surfer gets his hands on the Seed and restores everything. Wait and see.



i concur with your prediction, it seems very plausible, although i foresee a plot device allowing a win. I also forsee the ragnarok cycle reinstated. But bor being the all-father is kinda lame to me, given the previously established heirarchy...it would make them more powerful than depicted

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This argument was always flawed. At the time, the Celestials were intended to be beyond other entities, including Cosmics like Galactus. He'd have done no better than the Destroyer. Would have done worse unless he recently fed I'd wager. It should be noted, that this was at a point in time where Thomas was actively trying to tone down the Asgardians so they could better fit with the rest of the Marvel Universe. The shit he pulled was stupid and unnecessary.
Different abstracts have been created and held high by different writers and shakily held together. Definitely, like you say, these things have hardily been standardized throughout the ages. But now we know they are by feats, below Galactus. And the showing of them stomping Thor remains valid, and has been mentioned many times.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's the thing though, they weren't shown just before it all ended. Only Galactus was left fending off the Engine. The Surfer even mentioned it on panel. Did they run? Have their M-bodies destroyed like Aegis? Or did they just give up and call it a day? Where were they?



this is commonly misread .......from my understanding the celestials were still there

Originally posted by zopzop
This isn't new. Rage had scans he posted long before this saying that Bor planted the seed that became the world tree. Bor is basically the creator God of 616 reality. ... no. Just... no.

If you want to take Odin's word that the World Seed begat Galactus, fine. There's nothing that shows that when Bor planted it and grew the World Tree, the World Tree begat Galactus. They're not the same.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
this is commonly misread .......from my understanding the celestials were still there

Didn't the Surfer say only Galactus was left? I'm almost 100% sure that was the case and it was mentioned on panel.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... no. Just... no.

If you want to take Odin's word that the World Seed begat Galactus, fine. There's nothing that shows that when Bor planted it and grew the World Tree, the World Tree begat Galactus. They're not the same.

Dude, Rage POSTED the scans.

Let's just wait until the arc's over. Just in case Fraction pulls a twist.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, Rage POSTED the scans.


the scans actually depicted the world tree creating galactus? or it alluded it to it thru storytelling and innuendos

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cosmic fans the world over are all on suicide watch.


Pretty much what he said. The Cosmic/World Tree Seed is what will cause this Universe to end and in turn give birth to the new Galactus.

Odin seemed to be present during the previous cycle before the entity Galactus emerged.

I have no doubt that such a revelation will ruffle a few feathers. We can wait until the arc ends or Fraction makes a statement explaining the entire thing to conclusively end the discussion.

How can Odin be present when there was no universe to speak of?
That would mean the world tree came far after the universe was formed.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
the scans actually depicted the world tree creating galactus? or it alluded it to it thru storytelling and innuendos

No no. I'm referring to Bor finding the the World Seed that created the World Tree. In response to when you said this :


The Asgardians are top dog at Marvel.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, Rage POSTED the scans. I'm reading it right now. I can repost the scans too. The World Seed endures beyond all times. But Bor didn't make it. He simply found it and he grew the World Tree from it. The World Tree itself did not begat the universe or Galactus.

The World Seed did, if you take Odin's word for granted, and it will do so again in the next cycle. Neither Bor, nor his sons precede (or operate beyond) the existence of the World Seed.

Originally posted by zopzop
No no. I'm referring to Bor finding the the World Seed that created the World Tree. In response to when you said this :


The Asgardians are top dog at Marvel.

which makes no sense, since they are only a planetary pantheon....their are shite loads of skyfathers thru-out marvel that dont get the same level of respect especially since the greeks are arguably stronger

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm reading it right now. I can repost the scans too. The World Seed endures beyond all times. But Bor didn't make it. He simply found it and he grew the World Tree.

The World Tree is the Cosmic Axis no? Bor was around and used the World Seed to create the World Tree. He's the creator God. Since he planted the Seed that gave birth to the Cosmic Axis.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
which makes no sense, since they are only a planetary pantheon....their are shite loads of skyfathers thru-out marvel that dont get the same level of respect especially since the greeks are arguably stronger

This was exactly my argument back when I hadn't seen the scans. But it's all right there on panel. I have NO idea why Marvel is doing this. In fact the stories made MORE sense back in the silver age when Odin explained the existence of other Gods and Pantheons to Thor. I even have the scan. But it seems that's been retconned.

Originally posted by zopzop
The World Tree is the Cosmic Axis no? Bor was around and used the World Seed to create the World Tree. He's the creator God. Since he planted the Seed that gave birth to the Cosmic Axis. The World Tree lies among and betwixt the Nine Realms. It does not support or birth the entire 616 Universe.

Surfer talking about the Galactus Seed

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/7827692_The_Mighty_Thor_3_010-11.jpg


and LT beats Galactus

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The World Tree lies among and betwixt the Nine Realms. It does not support or birth the entire 616 Universe.

Unless there's been a retcon, the World Tree is the physical manifestation of the cosmic axis.

^ For the Nine Realms. Not the entire 616 Universe.

You should know this because in the most recent Ragnarok, the World Tree was destroyed and the 616 Universe did not collapse.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
the World Tree was destroyed and the 616 Universe did not collapse.

http://www.xboxliveaddicts.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif

Then if that's the case, Bor isn't the creator God of the entire 616 reality "just" the 9 worlds.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ For the Nine Realms. Not the entire 616 Universe.

You should know this because in the most recent Ragnarok, the World Tree was destroyed and the 616 Universe did not collapse.


excellent point.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The World Tree lies among and betwixt the Nine Realms. It does not support or birth the entire 616 Universe.

The World Tree has always been of incredible importance to the Asgardian World and Fraction expanded on it. One of the first things he did was establish the World Tree and it's connection to an Infinite number of Universes:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/thor615003.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/thor615002.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/thor616014015.jpg/

He turned the Nine Realms into entire Universes, that are the tip of an Infinite Number of Universes which is where the lost 10th World came into the fold. I'm guessing the World Tree it's the center of the Multiverse or something along those lines.

Just to show that Fraction wasn't kidding when he meant Universes:
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9664/thor616020021.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4594/thor616022023.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3143/thor616024025.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, Rage POSTED the scans.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/thor61900304.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/thor61900506.jpg/

There you go.

It's pretty straightforward. When the Universe was dying, Bor found the World Seed, planted it on his planet, and from there sprang up the World Tree, which began creation. That's the moment Galactus was born I'd guess but whatever, we'll wait until the arc finishes.

Originally posted by zopzop
http://www.xboxliveaddicts.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif

Then if that's the case, Bor isn't the creator God of the entire 616 reality "just" the 9 worlds.


which in itself is bull since according to Zeus, Cronos is the creator of everything

Zeus can s*ck it.

Originally posted by zopzop
http://www.xboxliveaddicts.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif

Then if that's the case, Bor isn't the creator God of the entire 616 reality "just" the 9 worlds. It's safe to say he created Eight of the Nine Realms. As the World Tree being destroyed did not take Midgard with it, only the other Eight Realms (which were actually eaten by Fenris anyway).

My guess is that Midgard (Earth) already existed and the World Tree grew around it while begatting from scratch the other Eight Realms. Since all Nine Realms fall within the extensions of the World Tree (regardless of whether they were birthed from it), they're still dimensionally connected. It's the most feasible way to reconcile Earth still existing despite no World Tree being present with Odin's claims.

Or we can just say it's myth and flowery purple prose and not completely established yet. Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The World Tree has always been of incredible importance to the Asgardian World and Fraction expanded on it. One of the first things he did was establish the World Tree and it's connection to an Infinite number of Universes:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/thor615003.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/thor615002.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/thor616014015.jpg/

He turned the Nine Realms into entire Universes, that are the tip of an Infinite Number of Universes which is where the lost 10th World came into the fold. I'm guessing the World Tree it's the center of the Multiverse or something along those lines. facepalm x10. Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Just to show that Fraction meant what he was saying about Universes:



http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/thor61900304.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/thor61900506.jpg/

There you go.

It's pretty straightforward. When the Universe was dying, Bor found the World Seed, planted it on his planet, and from there sprang up the World Tree, which began creation. That's the moment Galactus was born I'd guess but whatever, we'll wait until the arc finishes. Galactus is not a child of the World Tree.

Neither were the World Eaters. They came from beyond the Nine Worlds themselves.

Midgard = Earth. Not the 616 Universe.

Okay all powerful and all wise ODG, since I'm clearly reading the scans wrong despite my pretty decent capabilities in that particular field, we'll wait until the arc ends and finish the discussion then.

The seed, "Soul of God" existed in the previous universe and the one before that. It makes sure that the cycle of death and rebirth continues. It could have created galactus from the world tree from the old universe? The new galactus for the next universe will probably be created from the current world tree. Per Odin, Galactus wants to use it's power to make sure he is the galactus of the new universe and that he doesn't die when this universe does. jmho

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zeus can s*ck it.


you just made the greeks are > the asgardians

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The World Tree has always been of incredible importance to the Asgardian World and Fraction expanded on it. One of the first things he did was establish the World Tree and it's connection to an Infinite number of Universes:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/thor615003.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/thor615002.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/thor616014015.jpg/

He turned the Nine Realms into entire Universes, that are the tip of an Infinite Number of Universes which is where the lost 10th World came into the fold. I'm guessing the World Tree it's the center of the Multiverse or something along those lines.

Just to show that Fraction wasn't kidding when he meant Universes:
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9664/thor616020021.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4594/thor616022023.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3143/thor616024025.jpg



http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/thor61900304.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/thor61900506.jpg/

There you go.

It's pretty straightforward. When the Universe was dying, Bor found the World Seed, planted it on his planet, and from there sprang up the World Tree, which began creation. That's the moment Galactus was born I'd guess but whatever, we'll wait until the arc finishes.

Thank you!

i won't except it


ever

Originally posted by Sin I AM
which in itself is bull since according to Zeus, Cronos is the creator of everything

Sin check out this scan :
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3618/thorannual0539.th.jpg

Doesn't this make MORE sense than the confused crap we are stuck with now? But Rage is right, that scan is no longer valid and it's been retconned for better or for worse.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay all powerful and all wise ODG, since I'm clearly reading the scans wrong despite my pretty decent capabilities in that particular field, we'll wait until the arc ends and finish the discussion then. You forgot beautiful. crackers Originally posted by Diesldude
The seed, "Soul of God" existed in the previous universe and the one before that. It makes sure that the cycle of death and rebirth continues. It could have created galactus from the world tree from the old universe? The new galactus for the next universe will probably be created from the current world tree. Per Odin, Galactus wants to use it's power to make sure he is the galactus of the new universe and that he doesn't die when this universe does. jmho It could have created Galactus on its own. Why do people keep thinking that Galactus was a child of the World Tree? Nowhere is that stated.

We already know the World Eaters were not children of the World Tree. They came from beyond the dimensional space it covers. So obviously things exist aside from the World Tree. The most obvious being Bor and Odin and his brothers snce they were supposedly there at its creation.

Bottom-line is, based on Odin's claim, the World Seed predated them all, which is the only claim Surfer actually confirms. And nowhere is it stated that the World Tree predates Galactus. The Seed and the Tree are not the same. And Galactus' intentions from Odin's and Surfer's own mouths are completely different.

Originally posted by zopzop
Sin check out this scan :
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3618/thorannual0539.th.jpg

Doesn't this make MORE sense than the confused crap we are stuck with now? But Rage is right, that scan is no longer valid and it's been retconned for better or for worse.


i really hate retconns but thanx for the scan. I just dont want to see Galan job to Odin. If this happens i forsee a cosmic shift and Marvel Earth becoming the axis again

Originally posted by Wodenson
In THOR 619, Odin explains that his family existed in the "Time-Before-Time"... in the "dying days of the Long-Now that ended with the birth of everything." (Translation: the end of the previous universe)

Bor found the seed within a fissure in time-space. When he planted the seed, it gave rise to the World Tree which ended the "Long-Now" (previous universe), and created the Nine Worlds.

In MIGHTY THOR #3, the Silver Surfer says that the seed is an artifact from the "Time-Before-Time" (referencing Bor's era) and that it predates everyone.

When the Surfer leaves, Odin tells Thor that the seed survives the destruction of each universe, and then regurgitates that energy to create a new universe; a new World Tree; a new Galactus. The seed maintains that cycle.

Take from that what you will. lol so the planting of the seed by bor caused ther big cruncha dn the following big bang? fat chance. not only is G's story well established, the phoenix force's role in the cycle (cruncha nd bang) is too. you are reaching beyond reason and none of this was actually stated in the comic, you are fabricating an order of events based on what odin said would happen in the future. the idea that Galan is not the sole survivor of the previous universe cause bor planted a seed is crap too.

@753

R E T C O N

Originally posted by zopzop
You'd be wrong then. The movie only did modestly compared to titans such as the Spider-man or Batman franchises.
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thor.htm
When you add up the production budget + marketing budget and subtract that from it's gross (keeping in mind the reduced income for the studio because of the way overseas markets work) they just barely made any kind of money on this movie.



This isn't new. Rage had scans he posted long before this saying that Bor planted the seed that became the world tree. Bor is basically the creator God of 616 reality.

My prediction on the upcoming throw down : Surfer wins because of Thor's injury but Thor puts up a hell of a fight. Galactus LOSES vs Odin but the collateral damage is huge and Surfer gets his hands on the Seed and restores everything. Wait and see. bor did not create eternity zop zop

@zopzop

N A H

Originally posted by 753
bor did not create eternity zop zop
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The World Tree has always been of incredible importance to the Asgardian World and Fraction expanded on it. One of the first things he did was establish the World Tree and it's connection to an Infinite number of Universes:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/thor615003.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/thor615002.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/thor616014015.jpg/

He turned the Nine Realms into entire Universes, that are the tip of an Infinite Number of Universes which is where the lost 10th World came into the fold. I'm guessing the World Tree it's the center of the Multiverse or something along those lines.

Just to show that Fraction wasn't kidding when he meant Universes:
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9664/thor616020021.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4594/thor616022023.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3143/thor616024025.jpg



http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/thor61900304.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/thor61900506.jpg/

There you go.

It's pretty straightforward. When the Universe was dying, Bor found the World Seed, planted it on his planet, and from there sprang up the World Tree, which began creation. That's the moment Galactus was born I'd guess but whatever, we'll wait until the arc finishes.

@753

Check those scans.

all top incarnations of superman could beat galactus, CA superman, Superman 1 Million , Golden superman Prime, SA superman

Originally posted by zopzop
@753

Check those scans. I have, they dont prove what you think they do. asgard and the other 8 worlds are parts of the 616 and the infinity that is crosstime is compared in an analogy to the WT, but that does not mean the seed Bor planted originated all of CT and the asgardians just remained unaware of it. it was ana anlogya dn a myth.

Galan was the sole survivor of the big crunch until actually proven otherwise.

Originally posted by Wodenson
The first stage of acceptance is denial. Deep breath, guys. It will be alright.

Originally posted by 753
lol so the planting of the seed by bor caused ther big cruncha dn the following big bang?

Not quite. From what I surmise, a fissure in time-space appeared before Bor after the previous universe had collapsed, allowing him access to the cosmic seed/egg. Bor then planted the seed which birthed the World Tree, the Nine Worlds, and facilitated the creation of Galactus.



I'm not fabricating an order of events. I'm going by what has been revealed; don't shoot the messenger. There needs to be verification for what Odin has said, but I think you need to start prepping yourself.



Galactus could very well be the sole survivor of his universe. Bor and his kin could likewise have predated the universe because they existed on a separate plane of reality, as many other extradimensional entities do.

That's possible. Asgard could have existed before the 616 universe

this is giving me a headache & it's total crap. if this holds true, their essentially giving bor a cherry picked retcon feat to bolster the super unparralled awesomeness that is thor/odin/asgard. all this because bor may have picked up the seed/egg & "planted" it. this sounds about as intense, inventive, & energizing a comic book reading sensory experience as putting my hand in warm water & pissing my pants. it's lame and belittles the character of galactus who is leaps, bounds, and infinitely more interesting a charcter than odin & bore. maybe there will be a major league twist at the end & galactus will tranfser them both into the egg, seal them in the dimension of stupid retcons, & collapse that dimension.

Originally posted by wildernesss
this is giving me a headache & it's total crap. if this holds true, their essentially giving bor a cherry picked retcon feat to bolster the super unparralled awesomeness that is thor/odin/asgard. all this because bor may have picked up the seed/egg & "planted" it. this sounds about as intense, inventive, & energizing a comic book reading sensory experience as putting my hand in warm water & pissing my pants. it's lame and belittles the character of galactus who is leaps, bounds, and infinitely more interesting a charcter than odin & bore. maybe there will be a major league twist at the end & galactus will tranfser them both into the egg, seal them in the dimension of stupid retcons, & collapse that dimension. Just be thankful Marvel isn't using the Egyptian creation myths to inspire these plots: "Atum was a self-created deity, the first being to emerge from the darkness and endless watery abyss that girdled the world before creation. A product of the energy and matter contained in this chaos, he created divine and human beings through loneliness: alone in the universe, he produced from his own semen Shu, the god of air, and Tefnut, the goddess of moisture. The brother and sister, curious about the primeval waters that surrounded them went to explore the waters and disappeared into the darkness." Wikipedia

Originally posted by wildernesss
this is giving me a headache & it's total crap. if this holds true, their essentially giving bor a cherry picked retcon feat to bolster the super unparralled awesomeness that is thor/odin/asgard.

How is this a cherry picked feat? How is it designed to bolster the awesomeness of Asgard? I don't see either of these things. They are simply story elements and do not appear to be specifically aimed at augmenting or depreciating anything.

If true, all it really does is make certain gods much older than previously thought. Galactus' established origin can reasonably co-exist with this new information.

^ It does reasonably co-exist in that the 616 universe and Galactus predate everything. Bor's actions came later after the 616 unvierse and Galactus had been established and he used the recovered World Seed that had been lying around in a space-time rift to create the World Tree and, thus, the Nine Realms.

The Nine Realms =/= the 616 Universe. Not even close. The Nine Realms = Asgard, Vanaheim, Muspelheim, Midgard, Lightalfheim, Swartalfheim, Hel, Jotunheim and Nifelhel.

Taking Odin's "time before time" purple prose as literal fact is foolish. How many times has "time before time" been used to describe something other than the universe that predated the 616 universe? It's been used to describe pre-human history, the prehistoric ages, pre-Earth history, etc. We already know how incredibly egocentric Odin is. It's wholly uncontroversial that he's going to refer to the pre-Nine Worlds time as the "time before time" since post-Nine Realms existence is all that he thinks is important. Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's possible. Asgard could have existed before the 616 universe No. Just... just, no.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Taking Odin's "time before time" purple prose as literal fact is foolish. How many times has "time before time" been used to describe something other than the universe that predated the 616 universe? It's been used to describe pre-human history, the prehistoric ages, pre-Earth history, etc. We already know how incredibly egocentric Odin is. It's wholly uncontroversial that he's going to refer to the pre-Nine Worlds time as the "time before time" since post-Nine Realms existence is all that he thinks is important.

That would make sense if a HUMAN BEING was saying it and not a GOD. Time before time would mean different things to a human being vs a God.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The Nine Realms = Asgard, Vanaheim, Muspelheim, Midgard, Lightalfheim, Swartalfheim, Hel, Jotunheim and Nifelhel.
actually hel is not part of the nine realms (or counted amongst them). the home of the dwarves, nidevellr is

surtur is also older than asgard also

Originally posted by zopzop
That would make sense if a HUMAN BEING was saying it and not a GOD. Time before time would mean different things to a human being vs a God.

Yes because a Human beings is limited compared to a god, as limited as a Skyfather (or god) is to an abstract (Galactus).

^ Originally posted by zopzop
That would make sense if a HUMAN BEING was saying it and not a GOD. Time before time would mean different things to a human being vs a God. Exactly. Humans only care about humancentric history. And as I suggested, as egocentric as Odin is, it is unsurprising he only cares about Asgardcentric history?

Galactus is not an abstract, and we'll see how limited Odin is in comparison fairly soon.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Exactly. Humans only care about humancentric history. And as I suggested, as egocentric as Odin is, it is unsurprising he only cares about Asgardcentric history?

The real question is whether or not Fraction is having Odin tell an Asgardcentric tale, or if he's using Odin to relay accurate information. I guess we'll find out soon.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Galactus is not an abstract, and we'll see how limited Odin is in comparison fairly soon.

Exactly. Galactus is a cosmic being. That's very different from an abstract.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Galactus is not an abstract, and we'll see how limited Odin is in comparison fairly soon. he is not the embodiment of an abstract concept such as time or chaos, but powerwise he is abstract level and his being is one of the cornerstones of the universe, maintaining balance between eternity/infinity and death/oblivion. the other abstracts consider him a peer

He's not an abstract, regardless of his importance or how other abstracts perceive him. He's an alien who wears purple armor and flies around in a space ship eating planets for sustenance. He has a hairline. He's balding.

Originally posted by Wodenson
He's not an abstract, regardless of his importance or how other abstracts perceive him. He's an alien who wears purple armor and flies around in a space ship eating planets for sustenance. He has a hairline. He's balding.

and despite all this, he is leagues ahead of odin

Maybe. Upcoming issues of MIGHTY THOR will settle the matter for everyone. Yourself included.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Maybe. Upcoming issues of MIGHTY THOR will settle the matter for everyone. Yourself included.


and what do you suppose will happen

Odin and Galactus will fight.

Originally posted by Wodenson
He's not an abstract, regardless of his importance or how other abstracts perceive him. He's an alien who wears purple armor and flies around in a space ship eating planets for sustenance. He has a hairline. He's balding. wrong. he is a pure energy being whose mere presence warps reality. a being that has infinite dimensions and no dimensions at all. lesser beings project their own limitations onto him and so humans see him as human-like giant in an armor and other species see him differently.

whenever he needs to interact with other abstratcs through an m-body he assumes the form of a talking star

all of this has been shown on panel several times

Originally posted by 753
wrong. he is a pure energy being whose mere presence warps reality. a being that has infinite dimensions and no dimensions at all. lesser beings project their own limitations onto him and so humans see him as human-like giant in an armor and other species see him differently.

whenever he needs to interact with other abstratcs through an m-body he assumes the form of a talking star

all of this has been shown on panel several times

This is also wrong. He's been shown bleeding before. He's been shown having a skull/skeletal structure. The writers are all over the place with this guy.

PS When was the last time he was considered the balancing force between Death/Eternity? Because it seems the writers at Marvel have dropped that idea.

Originally posted by Wodenson
He's not an abstract, regardless of his importance or how other abstracts perceive him. He's an alien who wears purple armor and flies around in a space ship eating planets for sustenance. He has a hairline. He's balding. Actually, he's a ball of energy and Earthlings perceive him that way.

He's abstract in position, power, and importance.

Originally posted by Mindset
Actually, he's a ball of energy and Earthlings perceive him that way.

He's abstract in position, power, and importance.

????. What aspect of reality does he represent? He's a cosmic being. That's all.

Right over your head.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is also wrong. He's been shown bleeding before. He's been shown having a skull/skeletal structure. The writers are all over the place with this guy.

PS When was the last time he was considered the balancing force between Death/Eternity? Because it seems the writers at Marvel have dropped that idea.

that is just people ****ing up and even that can be reconciled with his anture. humans just make up an image of a him bleeding because that is something they can understand unlike the energy process of his wounds

BRB cracked his armor and did no real damage and when did he bleed btw?

the abraxas story arc established his role in the maintenance fo the universe and it has been repeated throughout pretty much every single SS appearence ever since, including annihilation, his last miniseries and IINM this current asgardian arc as well.

Originally posted by 753
that is just people ****ing up and even that can be reconciled with his anture. humans just make up an image of a him bleeding because that is something they can understand unlike the energy process of his wounds

BRB cracked his armor and did no real damage and when did he bleed btw?

the abraxas story arc established his role in the maintenance fo the universe and it has been repeated throughout pretty much every single SS appearence ever since, including annihilation, his last miniseries and IINM this current asgardian arc as well. He bled against Tyrant.

Originally posted by zopzop
????. What aspect of reality does he represent? He's a cosmic being. That's all. he is the equity face of the LT, the balance between existence and oblivion. like the IB is the balance between chaos and order

Originally posted by 753
he is the equity face of the LT, the balance between existence and oblivion. like the IB is the balance between chaos and order

I don't think that's valid anymore.

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't think that's valid anymore.

Based on what?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He bled against Tyrant. oh I remember it now. artist wanted to show him being wounded and conveyd it that way, since his established image is that of the armor wearing giant, but it's sloppy work though. when T&A beat him, he did not bleed at all.

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't think that's valid anymore. how come?