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How is Supes going to stand a chance?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
How is Supes going to stand a chance?

Incredible Will Power mixed with Torquasm Vo? Remember that Superman has taken on the likes of Dominus in mental combat and that he resisted the Zrfffian powers of Emperor Joker through sheer force of belief and will.

What did he do with Tvo again?

Just found this with some little google-hunting:

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6587/adventuresofsuperman586dt7.th.jpghttp://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6568/adventuresofsuperman586qm0.th.jpghttp://img410.imageshack.us/img410/115/adventuresofsuperman586aq8.th.jpg

Hmm, so do you think he can win?

Max Lord was able to get into Supes head, granted it took years iirc, but CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ML.

Originally posted by Mindset
Max Lord was able to get into Supes head, granted it took years iirc, but CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ML.

Originally posted by Galan007
He beat Dominus (a universal telepath/reality warper... One of the most powerful evah!!!) on the mental plane:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/33supermankingoftheworl.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/34supermankingoftheworl.jpg/
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2430/35supermankingoftheworl.jpg

I can't imagine Palpatine overcoming Superman's will if someone that powerful was unable to. Fanboy. vin

I hope Galan doesn't mind me crossposting his stuff for my case. >.<

CN wont be taking him to the mental plane.

If the mental plane is anything like the astral plane, having great willpower can offset not having telepathic abilities.

Originally posted by Mindset
CN wont be taking him to the mental plane.

If the mental plane is anything like the astral plane, having great willpower can offset not having telepathic abilities.

He bested a essential god who manipulated reality on a massive scale on a mental level and has reversed Zrfffian power through sheer will alone and that's not good enough for you when he's taking on someone just barely above Charles?

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
He bested a essential god who manipulated reality on a massive scale on a mental level and has reversed Zrfffian power through sheer will alone and that's not good enough for you when he's taking on someone just barely above Charles? The fact that you think CN is barely above Charles shows you have no idea who she even is.

He also used T-vo, which he has done like 2 times.

mindset is right and you're right. get used to it like the rest of us.

Nova

Originally posted by Mindset
Max Lord was able to get into Supes head, granted it took years iirc, but CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ML.

Max Lord also mindf!%#ed every telepath on the planet, including J'onn. I would assume that his powers, while not so easily accessible, somehow break through any resistance

Originally posted by Cogito
Max Lord also mindf!%#ed every telepath on the planet, including J'onn. I would assume that his powers, while not so easily accessible, somehow break through any resistance And CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ML.

Originally posted by Mindset
And CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ML. You really think so? Granted I think she's a more powerful telepath, but I don't think it's that significant of a gap.

Originally posted by Galan007
You really think so? Granted I think she's a more powerful telepath, but I don't think it's that significant of a gap. I think when someone can easily rape Xavier using cerebra, they are much more powerful than ML.

Originally posted by Mindset
I think when someone can easily rape Xavier using cerebra, they are much more powerful than ML. Much more powerful than someone who mind-wiped everyone on DC earth, then went on to restore their minds back to normal later on?

Originally posted by Galan007
Much more powerful than someone who mind-wiped everyone on DC earth, then went on to restore their minds back to normal later on? Yes...

Wow, sure I'd credit her as being the more powerful of the two, but "much" more powerful? Not imo.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
He bested a essential god who manipulated reality on a massive scale on a mental level and has reversed Zrfffian power through sheer will alone and that's not good enough for you when he's taking on someone just barely above Charles?
CN is a beast. She effortlessly mind raped the elite of imperial guard, each consider world destroyers. Such for example Gladeator.

Originally posted by Mindset
The fact that you think CN is barely above Charles shows you have no idea who she even is.

He also used T-vo, which he has done like 2 times.

New X-men, issues 114 through 126.

She is a Mummudrai, a spiritual Anti-self who all supposedly face in the womb before coalescing as physical beings. But she was the Mummudrai for the world's most powerful telepath, built herself a body out of Charles' cells and ended up surviving years after her stillborn death in a sewer before setting in motion the events that caused the extermination of 16 million mutants on Genosha.

And all of this because she can't differentiate the real world from the womb of Mrs. Xavier and only recognizes Charles as another actually existing being.

So yes, I know exactly who Cassandra Nova is, thank you.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
CN is a beast. She effortlessly mind raped the elite of imperial guard, each consider world destroyers. Such for example Gladeator.

None of the Shi'ar Guard compare to Dominus or Emperor Joker. Charles and Cassandra Nova doesn't compare to those two.

And she didn't mind rape Gladiator, she word raped him. His powers run solely on belief and he's not the hardest guy to topple if you had just infiltrated his beloved empire and brought it down around everyone's ears while he smiled and helped you do it because he was being deceived.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
New X-men, issues 114 through 126.

She is a Mummudrai, a spiritual Anti-self who all supposedly face in the womb before coalescing as physical beings. But she was the Mummudrai for the world's most powerful telepath, built herself a body out of Charles' cells and ended up surviving years after her stillborn death in a sewer before setting in motion the events that caused the extermination of 16 million mutants on Genosha.

And all of this because she can't differentiate the real world from the womb of Mrs. Xavier and only recognizes Charles as another actually existing being.

So yes, I know exactly who Cassandra Nova is, thank you.
No you simply looked at wiki and copy this almost word for word. So please dont pretend you know this as some fact, because it not even right.


I know this because of this statement made by you



Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk

And she didn't mind rape Gladiator, she word raped him. His powers run solely on belief and he's not the hardest guy to topple if you had just infiltrated his beloved empire and brought it down around everyone's ears while he smiled and helped you do it because he was being deceived.

Which is utter BS, because it is made very clear she mind raped him and it occured in the issue u stated

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
New X-men, issues 114 through 126.

So yea, maybe you should not try and read simply online sources like wiki and then pretend you read the issue, when clearly you did not

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
New X-men, issues 114 through 126.

She is a Mummudrai, a spiritual Anti-self who all supposedly face in the womb before coalescing as physical beings. But she was the Mummudrai for the world's most powerful telepath, built herself a body out of Charles' cells and ended up surviving years after her stillborn death in a sewer before setting in motion the events that caused the extermination of 16 million mutants on Genosha.

And all of this because she can't differentiate the real world from the womb of Mrs. Xavier and only recognizes Charles as another actually existing being.

So yes, I know exactly who Cassandra Nova is, thank you. So why the retarded comment of her being just barely above Xavier? Or did you just read her wiki page?

Originally posted by Galan007
Wow, sure I'd credit her as being the more powerful of the two, but "much" more powerful? Not imo. But my opinion is better than yours.

Originally posted by Mindset
So why the retarded comment of her being just barely above Xavier? Or did you just read her wiki page?


He only read the wiki page, it pretty evident by his response. I mean first he list new x-men issue as if he read them, but again he list thme as broad as possible and then in the same post contradict himself by saying nova did not mind rape Gladeator, which is amazingly funny, becuase in the very issue he list nova did mind rape gladeator.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No you simply looked at wiki and copy this almost word for word. So please dont pretend you know this as some fact, because it not even right.

I find it kind of funny that just because I disagree with you that all of my knowledge must come from a wiki instead of you who supposedly have read all the issues in question.

I actually have the entire Grant Morrison run of New X-men in front of me and am in the middle of reading it.




And I can control if on some wiki somewhere someone paraphrased the whole thing in the same manner as I did?







Evidence being? I don't see Gladiator showing any kind of influence mentally until after Cassandra verbally tears him apart.





And maybe you should be more polite Dum Dum. It wasn't so long ago you got banned for your poor temper and hostile approach to talking to others.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I find it kind of funny that just because I disagree with you that all of my knowledge must come from a wiki instead of you who supposedly have read all the issues in question.

I actually have the entire Grant Morrison run of New X-men in front of me and am in the middle of reading it.




And I can control if on some wiki somewhere someone paraphrased the whole thing in the same manner as I did?







Evidence being? I don't see Gladiator showing any kind of influence mentally until after Cassandra verbally tears him apart.





And maybe you should be more polite Dum Dum. It wasn't so long ago you got banned for your poor temper and hostile approach to talking to others.
U really wanna sit there and pretend you have the issue in front of u, be my guest, I don't by it for a second. Gladeator clearly got mind raped and it is very evident from the confrontation that what happen. Which is why I think ur full of shit.

oh I so scared I gunna get banned calling u out on ur crap, me so worried.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
U really wanna sit there and pretend you have the issue in front of u, be my guest, I don't by it for a second. Gladeator clearly got mind raped and it is very evident from the confrontation that what happen. Which is why I think ur full of shit.

oh I so scared I gunna get banned calling u out on ur crap, me so worried.

And this is where I'm done talking to you Dum Dum. You're petulant, petty, childish, aggressive, offensive and vitriolic. A rational person who can and does generally debate topics such as these without resulting to low-brow personal attacks and attempted degradations of a person instead of besting them through superior skills and evidence can't possibly debate against you because you make such a train wreck out of the entire thing.

So if anyone else wants to actually debate this topic without making some idiotic claim that I've never read the issues of New X-men and that's the only reason that they win the debate and that my entire contribution to the discussion is invalid with such a comment that can not be proven, just let me know and I'll gladly discuss the topic with you.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
And this is where I'm done talking to you Dum Dum. You're petulant, petty, childish, aggressive, offensive and vitriolic. A rational person who can and does generally debate topics such as these without resulting to low-brow personal attacks and attempted degradations of a person instead of besting them through superior skills and evidence can't possibly debate against you because you make such a train wreck out of the entire thing.

So if anyone else wants to actually debate this topic without making some idiotic claim that I've never read the issues of New X-men and that's the only reason that they win the debate and that my entire contribution to the discussion is invalid with such a comment that can not be proven, just let me know and I'll gladly discuss the topic with you.
Best what? ur BS u get from wiki. Yes who can deniy the awesome wiki infor. Please you make me laugh. Keep on believing that wiki right, and CN dident mind rape Gladeator, everyone else who actaully read the issue knows other wise.

Originally posted by Mindset
So why the comment of her being just barely above Xavier?

Because her telepathy was never shown as being above Charles'.

Is her overall powerset greater? Oh, without a doubt. She has self-healing, intangibility and some vague possible energy manipulation and matter creation abilities. But she never shows herself as being that much more competent than Charles.

Except when she beat him while he was using cerebra.

Originally posted by Mindset
Except when she beat him while he was using cerebra.

She sucker punched him when he was using Cerebra and did nearly take control of him, but he did still have enough willpower to pull a gun on himself and make it frank he'd commit suicide before letting her win.

And both of them had bleeding noses following the confrontation so it's not like Cassandra got out of that without a hitch.

The next time they really confront each other was when Cassandra was using Cerebra and forced the body switch.

And then the third time they faced each other was when Cassandra used Cerebra to try and extinguish all mutants at once only to find Charles waiting for her and she got curbstomped.

So I still assert that she's on par, if not slightly more powerful than Charles when it comes solely to TP.

Overall, as I've said, she is most certainly more powerful than Charles.

How did she sucker punch him? I remember her easily beating him while he was using cerebra.

She didn't get curbstomped, she was tricked and that's the only way they could beat her. Then Xavier and Jean attacked her, even then all they did was force her from Xavier's body.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk

And then the third time they faced each other was when Cassandra used Cerebra to try and extinguish all mutants at once only to find Charles waiting for her and she got curbstomped.


The Phoenix Force forced Nova out of Charles body. Emma in Diamond Form is immune to telepathy she tricked Nova.

Originally posted by Mindset
How did she sucker punch him? I remember her easily beating him while he was using cerebra.

She didn't get curbstomped, she was tricked and that's the only way they could beat her. Then Xavier and Jean attacked her, even then all they did was force her from Xavier's body.

Xavier's entire conversation during that confrontation made it pretty clear that he had no idea who or what was attacking him while he was using Cerebra. He went from just stretching his mind in the new device that Beast built to suddenly being under assault by a psychic entity just as potent as he is. How exactly is that not a sucker punch?

Like I said in the Nova v. Thor thread, define trick. She's the one who plugged herself into Cerebra, it just happened that Charles was laying in wait in every mutant mind on the planet and got in a nasty sucker punch himself. Then Jean manifested the Phoenix Force and muscled Cassandra out of Charles' body.

The only one who did any tricking was Emma and that was just changing the situation from a weakened Cassandra being obliterated by the combined force of Charles and Phoenix Jean to Cassandra being safely trapped and able to be re-educated.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
Xavier's entire conversation during that confrontation made it pretty clear that he had no idea who or what was attacking him while he was using Cerebra. He went from just stretching his mind in the new device that Beast built to suddenly being under assault by a psychic entity just as potent as he is. How exactly is that not a sucker punch?


Because he new he was being attacked, the fact he had no idea who it is, is irrelevent. He not only new he was being attacked and on top of that he was wielding a device that amplifies his own powers significantly. If they were around the same power, he would easily win, but there not so he dident.

It takes more than someone "just barely above Charles" to put Emma in her place =/

Originally posted by Konton
It takes more than someone "just barely above Charles" to put Emma in her place =/

And when was Emma put in her place? She never psychically confronted Cassandra.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
And when was Emma put in her place? She never psychically confronted Cassandra.

In Astonishing X-Men Torn a whisper drove Emma insane, she eventually beat it but it was a whisper. The same whisper hid itself from Jean Grey manifesting the PF and scanning through Emma's mind.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In Astonishing X-Men Torn a whisper drove Emma insane, she eventually beat it but it was a whisper. The same whisper hid itself from Jean Grey manifesting the PF and scanning through Emma's mind.

This was a follow-up to the Nova arc then?

I'll go hunt down and read the issue before commenting further.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
This was a follow-up to the Nova arc then?

I'll go hunt down and read the issue before commenting further.

Yes Joss Whedons Astonishing X-Men.

intangibility + mindrape should do it

Basically. I'm not sold on Superman's Tvo. It's pretty effective and worked on a universal level tp, but he rarely does it.

its also a bullshit poorly defined power that doesnt make any sense

It's an homage to PC Superman pulling powers out of his ass.

Disagreeing with someone is no reason to start flaming...

Cassandra Nova isn't just a clone of Xavier. And they are not equals, nor is she just "slightly above him".

She is Xavier at his fullest potential, as she has access to his entire genome, including all his latent traits and powers, which is why her telepathy is much much more potent than his, and why she also has a bunch of powers like telekinesis, phasing, etc. on top of her mummundrai powers - astral form, DNA copying, and creating a body from a mess of biological tissue.

As for this battle with Superman, Supes could 10 count her I suppose with an immediate speed blitz before she reacts (assuming she doesn't have auto-TK shields). But then she'd just be left with an astral form... which I suppose could still mind rape him.

I'm just throwing this out there but Superman was once hypnotized into being a circus strongman by a low level bad guy. It's a pis moment of course /shrug.