HOM W, God Swap Thing, Michael, Great Evil Beast, Lucifer, WF Mxy Vs Classic Beyonder

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SouthSpawn
Beyonder is being his self righteous self again and wants to just get rid of everything.

Can this team stop him?

Black bolt z
WF Mxy solos.

iceman24567
The team wreck him

zopzop
Michael, GEB, Lucifer, and God Swamp Thing get stomped, so they add nothing.

HOM Wanda or Mxy solo him.

Cogito
Originally posted by zopzop
Michael, GEB, Lucifer, and God Swamp Thing get stomped, so they add nothing.

HOM Wanda or Mxy solo him.

You do know who those characters are, right? confused

WF Mxy solos, GEB solos, the rest are arguable.

zopzop
Bull.

Mxy solos (that's a given) as does HoM Wanda. The rest would get destroyed by Classic Beyonder.

Prep-Man
stfu. GEB solos, mxy can stalemate as well.

zopzop
Originally posted by Prep-Man
stfu. GEB solos, mxy can stalemate as well.

How does GEB solo? At best he was equal to the Presence, but we all saw with the Primal Monitor, that their are powers beyond the Presence and hence GEB.

Beyonder is comparable to the Primal Monitor. Just as the Presence and his creation were amoeba to the Primal Monitor, mainstream Marvel reality was to the Beyonder.

So Primal Monitor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence=GEB>God ST>>>>>Micheal=Lucifer.

HoM Wanda tore apart and remade the entire Marvel OMNIVERSE. Mxy did the same thing to the DC OMNIVERSE. Either of those two can solo the Beyonder, but everyone else on that list gets destroyed.

Prep-Man
The only thing that can affect the GEB is Presence light, irrc. Beyonder doesn't have the power to defeat him. It would likey result in a stalemate or GEB eventually defeating him.

zopzop
Originally posted by Prep-Man
The only thing that can affect the GEB is Presence light, irrc. Beyonder doesn't have the power to defeat him. It would likey result in a stalemate or GEB eventually defeating him.

laughing

Someone tell that to the Primal Monitor.

Prep-Man
Tell what?

Cogito
Your argument is based entirely on the idea of the Beyonder and Primal Monitor being equivalent, and despite their seemingly similar natures, they are not.

Beyonder was not omnipotent, as shown on panel. GEB is half an omnipotent, and as such is omnipotent itself until proven otherwise.

zopzop
Originally posted by Cogito
Your argument is based entirely on the idea of the Beyonder and Primal Monitor being equivalent, and despite their seemingly similar natures, they are not.

They both regarded the mainstream multiverse of their respective companies as amoebas. They are similar enough for a comparison.



GEB and the Presence cannot be omnipotent because there exists something in DC continuity that DWARFS them in power.

Omega Vision
Spite against Beyonder.

Cogito
Originally posted by zopzop
They both regarded the mainstream multiverse of their respective companies as amoebas. They are similar enough for a comparison.

That's ridiculous. Just because their respective multiverses are viewed as minuscule doesn't mean they're equivalent in power.

Originally posted by zopzop
GEB and the Presence cannot be omnipotent because there exists something in DC continuity that DWARFS them in power.

The Primal Monitor didn't exist at the same time as the GEB. GEB, as he was last portrayed, was omnipotent along with the Presence. Even if the Primal Monitor was more powerful though, the GEB is omnipotent within the DC multiverse. That's more than the Beyonder can say, going by feats.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by zopzop


They both regarded the mainstream multiverse of their respective companies as amoebas. They are similar enough for a comparison.



GEB and the Presence cannot be omnipotent because there exists something in DC continuity that DWARFS them in power.
You know it is quite possible that the GEB, the Presence, and the Primal Monitor are all different facets of the same being.

There were hints to that effect in Final Crisis where the Angels of Pax Dei fought alongside the Champions of the Monitors (Supermen) and responded to Nix Uotan's summons along with the Forever People (agents of the Source). Not even touching on the GLC's presence and their connection to the Light.

Going by Morrison's view I'd say he sees DC Cosmology as a kind of syncretic hydra of sorts with multiple heads representing the same body.

zopzop
Originally posted by Cogito
That's ridiculous. Just because their respective multiverses are viewed as minuscule doesn't mean they're equivalent in power.


EXACTLY equivalent? No, I never said that. I said SIMILAR enough that we can make comparisons between them.




Good grief. That doesn't change anything. Since the Presence (the GEB's equivalent) exists/existed at the time the Primal Monitor was introduced. And the Primal Monitor viewed the Presence and it's creation as an amoeba. Hence the Primal Monitor >>>>>>>>>>>>Presence=GEB.

If you really believe GEB has greater feats than the Beyonder you need to check his respect thread. NOTHING in Marvel was his equal at the time. He was literally above the rest of the Marvel multiverse combined. GEB met his match in the Presence.

SouthSpawn
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You know it is quite possible that the GEB, the Presence, and the Primal Monitor are all different facets of the same being.

There were hints to that effect in Final Crisis where the Angels of Pax Dei fought alongside the Champions of the Monitors (Supermen) and responded to Nix Uotan's summons along with the Forever People (agents of the Source). Not even touching on the GLC's presence and their connection to the Light.

Going by Morrison's view I'd say he sees DC Cosmology as a kind of syncretic hydra of sorts with multiple heads representing the same body.

Very good thoughts here.

Cogito
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Going by Morrison's view I'd say he sees DC Cosmology as a kind of syncretic hydra of sorts with multiple heads representing the same body.

blowup

No but really, there are strong hints to that effect, and against. I think everyone over at DC just makes up stuff without consulting each other. Either that or they're intentionally f***ing with us.

zopzop
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You know it is quite possible that the GEB, the Presence, and the Primal Monitor are all different facets of the same being.

How could that be when the Primal Monitor wasn't even aware of the amoeba in his mist, until it had developed over the eons. If the Primal Monitor really was just another face the Presence wears, then how could it NOT be aware of it's own creation (the DC multiverse) until untold eons have passed?

Prep-Man
Primal Monitor is above Beyonder anyway. GEB represents the dark sid e of god and I don't see Beyonder taking him out. Unless you have some kind of idea...

zopzop
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Primal Monitor is above Beyonder anyway. GEB represents the dark sid e of god and I don't see Beyonder taking him out. Unless you have some kind of idea...

The Presence can't be "God" if there is something many stations of power above him! So being the Presence's dark side is meaningless.

Beyonder had NO equal in the Marvel Universe at the time. NO EQUAL. Nothing in the multiverse, even all of it combined was a match for him.

Beyonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence/GEB.

Cogito
Originally posted by zopzop
Good grief. That doesn't change anything.

It changes everything. We use characters as they were last portrayed, unless otherwise stated. GEB, last portrayed, was omnipotent. What has happened since is irrelevant to that.

Originally posted by zopzop
If you really believe GEB has greater feats than the Beyonder you need to check his respect thread. NOTHING in Marvel was his equal at the time. He was literally above the rest of the Marvel multiverse combined. GEB met his match in the Presence.

He was impressive, don't get me wrong. Beyonder never met TOAA, and if he did that would have cleared up any doubts about his abilities.

It should be noted, though, that any omnipotent by definition is greater than the rest of existence combined.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by zopzop
How could that be when the Primal Monitor wasn't even aware of the amoeba in his mist, until it had developed over the eons. If the Primal Monitor really was just another face the Presence wears, then how could it NOT be aware of it's own creation (the DC multiverse) until untold eons have passed?
Are you aware of every fart you let out while you're sleeping?

Besides who says the PM is just another face of the Presence?

An interpretation I've heard is that the Presence is the conscious mind of the PM.

I think a major point of Final Crisis was how all this mishmash of various cosmic forces with seemingly conflicting hierarchies don't necessarily need to be independently exclusive and can all be equal and valid parts of the whole.

I mean in an early interview he said it was a "celebration of comics in all its confusing, contradictory glory" or something to that effect.

You're basically missing his entire point by trying to enforce a 'if not this then that' mindset that Morrison could care less about when he made the Primal Monitor. Morrison isn't retconning the Presence or the Source, he's adding to them and putting his own spin on the concept.

Cogito
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I mean in an early interview he said it was a "celebration of comics in all its confusing, contradictory glory" or something to that effect.

Motherf****er...

Originally posted by Cogito
No but really, there are strong hints to that effect, and against. ...Either that or they're intentionally f***ing with us.

zopzop
Originally posted by Cogito
It changes everything. We use characters as they were last portrayed, unless otherwise stated. GEB, last portrayed, was omnipotent. What has happened since is irrelevant to that.


No it doesn't. Since things get retconned all the time. The MOST CURRENT RETCON is that there exists a being in DC that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence and hence the GEB.




TOAA must have been asleep or scared shxtless because he didn't so much as show his face as the Beyonder shxt all over his creation.

zopzop
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Are you aware of every fart you let out while you're sleeping?



No, I never claimed to be omnipotent or omniscient.

SouthSpawn
Originally posted by zopzop


No it doesn't. Since things get retconned all the time. The MOST CURRENT RETCON is that there exists a being in DC that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence and hence the GEB.




TOAA must have been asleep or scared shxtless because he didn't so much as show his face as the Beyonder shxt all over his creation.


IMO, there would be no need for the TOAA to interfere.
If you are that powerful.

So what to whatever the Beyonder does.
TOAA could snap his finger and undo everything the Beyonder has done.

This is why the "highest" being of order doesn't need to worry about some other being destorying anything.

TOAA could just bring it all back to whatever state it was before.

YA HEAR!
WORD!!!! smile

Prep-Man
Originally posted by zopzop
The Presence can't be "God" if there is something many stations of power above him! So being the Presence's dark side is meaningless.

Beyonder had NO equal in the Marvel Universe at the time. NO EQUAL. Nothing in the multiverse, even all of it combined was a match for him.

Beyonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Presence/GEB.

Except for God. GEB>>>>>Beyonder.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by zopzop
No, I never claimed to be omnipotent or omniscient.
I don't believe the PM was ever ascribed with omniscience. Not in the conventional sense anyway.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Primal Monitor is above Beyonder anyway. GEB represents the dark sid e of god and I don't see Beyonder taking him out. Unless you have some kind of idea...
Primal Monitor is similar in concept to Beyonder. To PM the multiverse was a "germ", to Beyonder it was a "drop of water" to his ocean.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by King Kandy Primal Monitor is similar in concept to Beyonder. To PM the multiverse was a "germ", to Beyonder it was a "drop of water" to his ocean.

isnt the pm an infinite void of knowleadge or something?

King Kandy
Originally posted by Prep-Man
isnt the pm an infinite void of knowleadge or something?
And Beyonder is an infinite unified realm surrounding the MU. w/e.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Except for God. GEB>>>>>Beyonder. I think the Beyonder would defeat the Geb.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by King Kandy
And Beyonder is an infinite unified realm surrounding the MU. w/e.

Beyonder is a realm by himself?

brownqk
Beyonder

Prep-Man
Beyonder taking all of those? Nah.

ares834
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You know it is quite possible that the GEB, the Presence, and the Primal Monitor are all different facets of the same being.

There were hints to that effect in Final Crisis where the Angels of Pax Dei fought alongside the Champions of the Monitors (Supermen) and responded to Nix Uotan's summons along with the Forever People (agents of the Source). Not even touching on the GLC's presence and their connection to the Light.

Going by Morrison's view I'd say he sees DC Cosmology as a kind of syncretic hydra of sorts with multiple heads representing the same body.

thumb up

This was my thought as well. In fact, in many ways it parallels one of my favorite views of religion. IE that Allah, Shiva, Jesus, etc are all one and the same.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Beyonder is a realm by himself?
Um, yes... that is basically the whole concept of Beyonder.

tsscls
Originally posted by quanchi112
I think the Beyonder would defeat the Geb.
I think the pre-retcon beyonder would beat the post-retcon GEB.
The Alan Moore GEB in ST in '85 was the most powerful thing ever shown in comics for awhile. A fully powered Spectre was less than a fingernail clipping. That was sort of scary to me back then.
The thing that DS fought later was severely depowered. It sucks they even had to revisit the concept.

SouthSpawn
Bump

Slaanesh
Beyonder can beat everyone here..he view the Marvel multiverse like a drop of water compare to his universe..he's up there with the Primal Monitor..

Prep-Man
ST ftw.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by zopzop

Beyonder had NO equal in the Marvel Universe at the time. NO EQUAL. Nothing in the multiverse, even all of it combined was a match for him.
Classic Molecule Man.

Endless Mike
Squirrel Girl solos

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