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In order from greatest to fifth greatest in your opinion. Also in your reasoning explain why they are where they are on your list due to significance in role and where they rank in overall combat formidability.

The top 3 for combat are Sidious, Bane and Nihilus. Then maybe Zannah and Vader for the next two.

I have no idea about significance other than Sidious is probably at the top of the list. The other significant Sith are Bane, Nihilus, Vader, Krayt, Revan, Traya, The Sith Emperor, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos and Freedon Nadd. No Caedus because he didn't actually do anything of significance.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The top 3 for combat are Sidious, Bane and Nihilus. Then maybe Zannah and Vader for the next two.

I have no idea about significance other than Sidious is probably at the top of the list. The other significant Sith are Bane, Nihilus, Vader, Krayt, Revan, Traya, The Sith Emperor, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos and Freedon Nadd. No Caedus because he didn't actually do anything of significance. In a battle with Bane against Sidious who would you favor ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
In a battle with Bane against Sidious who would you favor ?

Sidious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In a battle with Bane against Sidious who would you favor ?

There is no answer to that question. We've argued that for years without finding one.

Going to go Sidious, Krayt, Revan, Sith Emperor, and Ruin. Not necessarily in that order.

Because those are the ones who won, or at least got the farthest.

Not to discount ones like Bane and Sadow who set up later victories either.

Oh, and on fighting power... I think most sith this major are more-or-less on a general level. Some have more or less raw power, some techniques that give 'em an edge, but when two top sith meet there's no sure thing and depending on the circumstances either could win.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There is no answer to that question. We've argued that for years without finding one. I just wondered if you favored either sith lord but you seem to see it as an even split.

Nah he favors Bane.

Sidious, Bane, Kryat, Revan, and Vader.

IMO if Bane and Sidious were to fight, it would depend on if Bane had his Obelisk (sp) Armor or not.

I believe Bane was an incredible Sith. Self trained...started training as an adult...destroyed an entire order of Sith...created the most efficient sith philosophy. Sidious and Bane were both Master strategists, but Sidious had the benefit of all the work the Sith did before him as a starting point, Bane started at the bottom and worked his way up. Without Bane there is no Sidious.

Originally posted by CaedusRules
Without Bane there is no Sidious.

Agreed, but this is more or less because of Bane's institution of the Rule of Two.

I'm unfamiliar with any actual work enacted by Bane that benefited Sidious in the long run. All of his achievements seemed to be the direct result of his machinations, not other Sith.

You don't think of instituting the ROT as work? He did have to kill off the Brotherhood to do it.

He also established a network of spies and informants that no doubt benefited the Order over the millennium.


Greatest Combative Sith:

DE Sidious
Bane
Nihilus (possibly)
Caedus/Exar Kun with Amulets
Vader



Greatest Advances for the Sith Cause:

Sidious
Ragnos
Sith Emperor
Revan
Bane



Greatest Lone Displays of PowAH!:

Nihilus (Giga Drain)
Sidious (Force Storm)
Exar Kun (Mega Drain)
Krayt (Resurrection Without Clones)
Sith Emperor... (Longevity?) I couldn't really think of an impressive fifth.

Originally posted by CaedusRules
Sidious, Bane, Kryat, Revan, and Vader.

IMO if Bane and Sidious were to fight, it would depend on if Bane had his Obelisk (sp) Armor or not.

I believe Bane was an incredible Sith. Self trained...started training as an adult...destroyed an entire order of Sith...created the most efficient sith philosophy. Sidious and Bane were both Master strategists, but Sidious had the benefit of all the work the Sith did before him as a starting point, Bane started at the bottom and worked his way up. Without Bane there is no Sidious. Yes, Bane was a pioneer with my cursory knowledge of him but Sidious to me is like the michael jordan of the sith in terms of impact. The guy ruled the galaxy for years under imperialistic rule. To do so he had to overcome the jedi at their peak. The planning of Sidious through subtle manipulation and turning the chosen one into his last apprentice was a sheer stroke of genius.

If Bane and Sidious both had years to plan against each other do you think Bane would have a chance ?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Greatest Advances for the Sith Cause:

Sidious
Ragnos
Sith Emperor
Revan
Bane

Just curious but what did Ragnos do that advanced the SIth?


Anyway, for me:

Sidious
Sith Emperor
Bane
Naga Sadow
Revan

Originally posted by ares834
Just curious but what did Ragnos do that advanced the SIth? Maintained their existence and prosperity for a century straight, and brought about the direct rise of Exar Kun's Brotherhood (and the indirect rise of Revan). With the exception of the Sith Emperor, he reigned over a Sith Empire of prosperity, wealth, and power longer than any other Lord.

Ragnos, Revan, Nihilus, Bandon, Traya, and Dooku.

Rofl.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He also established a network of spies and informants that no doubt benefited the Order over the millennium.


Greatest Combative Sith:

DE Sidious
Bane
Nihilus (possibly)
Caedus/Exar Kun with Amulets
Vader



Greatest Advances for the Sith Cause:

Sidious
Ragnos
Sith Emperor
Revan
Bane



Greatest Lone Displays of PowAH!:

Nihilus (Giga Drain)
Sidious (Force Storm)
Exar Kun (Mega Drain)
Krayt (Resurrection Without Clones)
Sith Emperor... (Longevity?) I couldn't really think of an impressive fifth.


I agree with the "Greatest Advances for the Sith Cause" except I would include a special mention of Vader. He didn't really "advance the Sith cause" but brought about the end of the Rule of Two, which was monumental in a way.

I agree with "Great Lone Displays of PowAH!" (lol), except perhaps mentioning Darth Plagueis since he could actually delay death and even create life.

-------------------------------------------------------

As for the greatest Sith in battle, that's extremely difficult to rank. Many Sith have demonstrated deep Force prowess and ridiculous Force abilities. Furthermore, there are some Sith who have shown incredible skill against those considered to be in the upper echelon of Sith might (Zannah against Bane, Ulic Qel-Droma against Exar Kun). Where would they lie? And there are also unknown Sith, such as Desolous, who with his army killed some two thousand Jedi, many of those deaths he was personally responsible for.

I think it would be better to throw out a collective list of Sith considered to be the strongest of all time rather than actually ranking them. However, if I had to, I would say....

1. Sidious
2. Bane
3. Caedus
4. Exar Kun
5. Vader

6. Nihilus
7. Revan
8. Tyrannus
9. Marka Ragnos/Zannah
10. Marka/Ragnos/Zannah

I think Ulic Qel-Droma and Maul could be considered due to their lightsaber abilities.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I agree with the "Greatest Advances for the Sith Cause" except I would include a special mention of Vader. He didn't really "advance the Sith cause" but brought about the end of the Rule of Two, which was monumental in a way. Eh, that's more of a Jedi thing.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Eh, that's more of a Jedi thing.

True dat. Though, I would be hard-pressed to not include Vader in a list of most significant Sith.

Thousands of years of effort, a rogues gallery of ruthless warlords, galactic war sparking tyrants, planet eating Lovecraftian horrors, star killing Force machines... and all they get is thirty years of tyranny.

Fvck, screw further advancing the Sith cause... they all suck.

EDIT - KMC really needs to get rid of its censor... like really Raz, it's just stupid, fvck the moral guardians, this is the goddamn Internet.

Well in the sith's defense the jedi do seem to work better off together than the sith. Palpatine utterly destroying the jedi council with just one sith lord and a lot of clone help yeah I know is still an amazing feat.

Originally posted by Ysoserious?
Agreed, but this is more or less because of Bane's institution of the Rule of Two.

I'm unfamiliar with any actual work enacted by Bane that benefited Sidious in the long run. All of his achievements seemed to be the direct result of his machinations, not other Sith.

Spy networks, Credits, Sith Holocrons, ROT, the jedi believing the Sith were gone... How did Sidious not benefit from Bane is a better question.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, Bane was a pioneer with my cursory knowledge of him but Sidious to me is like the michael jordan of the sith in terms of impact. The guy ruled the galaxy for years under imperialistic rule. To do so he had to overcome the jedi at their peak. The planning of Sidious through subtle manipulation and turning the chosen one into his last apprentice was a sheer stroke of genius.

If Bane and Sidious both had years to plan against each other do you think Bane would have a chance ?

If Sidious is MJ, then Bane is Gretzky. lol. The Jedi Order that Sidious overcame was not a jedi order at thier peak. They had been culled as the wariors they were, when the senate removed them from the military. Without fighting the Sith, they became complacent and weak. They were blinded too the Sith or Milliena.

Bane getting rid of the brotherhood is as equal as Sidious destroying the JO. But what was more impressive.... the Thought Bomb or Order 66?

As to your last question, "If Bane and Sidious both had years to plan against each other do you think Bane would have a chance ?"

I would say, yes he does. Sidious was an excellent strategist, but what made him more powerfull was his ability to manipulate a situation. Sidious set up and manuverd a plan that lasted...40-50 years? And that plan was the culimination of all the work of all the Sith before him. Bane set up a system that lasted a Millenimum, that eventually put Sidious in the right place at the right time.

I would say in any kind of confrontation between Bane and Sidious, it would be too close to tell who would win. I would give the battle to Bane on one principal alone. Bane knew that he would never rule the galaxy for long if he tried. He put aside his ego, and did what was best for the Sith Order. Sidious on the other hand thought he would rule the galaxy forever, and never believed he would be defeated. His arrogance destroyed the Sith. So Bane would win because Sidious' arrogance.

Originally posted by CaedusRules
If Sidious is MJ, then Bane is Gretzky. lol. The Jedi Order that Sidious overcame was not a jedi order at thier peak. They had been culled as the wariors they were, when the senate removed them from the military. Without fighting the Sith, they became complacent and weak. They were blinded too the Sith or Milliena.

Bane getting rid of the brotherhood is as equal as Sidious destroying the JO. But what was more impressive.... the Thought Bomb or Order 66?

As to your last question, "If Bane and Sidious both had years to plan against each other do you think Bane would have a chance ?"

I would say, yes he does. Sidious was an excellent strategist, but what made him more powerfull was his ability to manipulate a situation. Sidious set up and manuverd a plan that lasted...40-50 years? And that plan was the culimination of all the work of all the Sith before him. Bane set up a system that lasted a Millenimum, that eventually put Sidious in the right place at the right time.

I would say in any kind of confrontation between Bane and Sidious, it would be too close to tell who would win. I would give the battle to Bane on one principal alone. Bane knew that he would never rule the galaxy for long if he tried. He put aside his ego, and did what was best for the Sith Order. Sidious on the other hand thought he would rule the galaxy forever, and never believed he would be defeated. His arrogance destroyed the Sith. So Bane would win because Sidious' arrogance. I don't think they were complacent or weak I feel as though Sidious was always one step ahead of him while Anakin chose Vader over Sidious which changed everything.

For that overconfidence/arrogance of Sidious is why I like his personality more. I love those types of guys better than the realists.

Meh, I definately see the Jedi as weaker and more complacent in the movies than they should be. Take for instance the Phantom Menace. There is a sighting of a possible Sith lord who attacked a Jedi in the open. And the Jedi Council prioritise seeing who becomes freaking chancellor over doing a damn thing about it. They send 1 Jedi and a padawan out alone when the mans already attacked them once. I mean what the hell? Fighting the darkside is the top priority of the Jedi, not playing at ****ing politics. Yoda himself admits that the Jedi had lost their way after Order 66 and Christ was he right.

Originally posted by CaedusRules
If Sidious is MJ, then Bane is Gretzky. lol. The Jedi Order that Sidious overcame was not a jedi order at thier peak. They had been culled as the wariors they were, when the senate removed them from the military. Without fighting the Sith, they became complacent and weak. They were blinded too the Sith or Milliena.

Y'know, even though the Jedi weren't living in a martial time and were enjoying the Great Peace of the Republic, the Order before and during Sidious's time produced Yoda and Mace Windu, the 2nd and 3rd strongest Jedi of all time (def. in the top five), after Luke Skywalker.

Combatative strength is not the only kind.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Meh, I definately see the Jedi as weaker and more complacent in the movies than they should be. Take for instance the Phantom Menace. There is a sighting of a possible Sith lord who attacked a Jedi in the open. And the Jedi Council prioritise seeing who becomes freaking chancellor over doing a damn thing about it. They send 1 Jedi and a padawan out alone when the mans already attacked them once. I mean what the hell? Fighting the darkside is the top priority of the Jedi, not playing at ****ing politics. Yoda himself admits that the Jedi had lost their way after Order 66 and Christ was he right. Maul was defeated but they definitely should have sent more since Maul in effect proved superior to both combatants. Windu didn't waste any time confronting Sidious either. He brought three jedi masters with him but in the end was outplayed by Sidious over Anakin which changed everything. After that Sidious was that good to get the jump on the jedi and destroy the bulk of their forces before they were even ware of the threat.

The thing is though that Shatterpoint shows us that in a way its Windu's fault the entire Clone Wars happened. When he had Dooku at his mercy in the arena his Shatterpoint ability showed him that Doou would lead the galaxy into war but that he could stop him with just a casual flick of his wrist. But he didn't. He froze and wimped out on saving the galaxy. And with Yoda, he could have ended the war by killing Dooku, but again and again he shows the evil bastard mercy and goes easy on him in combat. Both of these two failed in their responsibility as Jedi to bring peace and tranquility to the galaxy and the Force, no matter the cost. Not the mention their utter bungling of the Anakin situation

Originally posted by Nephthys
The thing is though that Shatterpoint shows us that in a way its Windu's fault the entire Clone Wars happened. When he had Dooku at his mercy in the arena his Shatterpoint ability showed him that Doou would lead the galaxy into war but that he could stop him with just a casual flick of his wrist. But he didn't. He froze and wimped out on saving the galaxy. And with Yoda, he could have ended the war by killing Dooku, but again and again he shows the evil bastard mercy and goes easy on him in combat. Both of these two failed in their responsibility as Jedi to bring peace and tranquility to the galaxy and the Force, no matter the cost. Not the mention their utter bungling of the Anakin situation Yeah, I get they failed and miserably but personally even though lucas agrees the series and these books are canon I don't personally see Lucas as giving a crap and would change something in a heartbeat for the movies. I see the movies as canon to themselves and don't consider the show tbh. I know others might disagree but Lucas does seem quite fickle.

They did screw up the Anakin situation but when Anakin was the one who came to Windu informing him of Palpatine he had no reason not to trust him. Anakin walked in at the perfect time and Palpatine usually knows how to make the best of a bad situation(being at the mercy of your opponent and still managing to kill your opponent) kinda thing.

CaedusRules
Spy networks,

Who says that Bane's network was still functioning a millennium later?



Who says that Palpatine made use of Bane's monetary wealth a millennium later?



What Holocrons and how many?



This is the only real one you've offered.



The Sith's secrecy was something that had to be maintained by Bane's successors and was not a direct product of Bane alone.



To be honest, I'm not seeing much from you by way of sources.



It might be all of the glaring typos and absurdly selected words, but there are sources that indicate otherwise. George Lucas has referred to the PT as the "golden age of the Jedi," which is corroborated by The Star Wars Saga Edition Core Rulebook.



Based on... what?



Order 66 for sheer irony and hilarity. The Thought Bomb was neither of Bane's design nor a product of his own power, he required the energies of the other members of the Brotherhood in order to complete the ritual.



Bane's establishment of the Rule of Two did nothing but help maintain Sith secrecy, which was important to Palpatine's victory but hardly the primary reason for it. Krayt managed to keep his Sith in secret until he chose to reveal himself, and he did so without Bane's precepts.

The major achievements of Palpatine's success: his election to the office of Supreme Chancellor, his initiation and manipulation of the Clone Wars, his enacting of Order 66... had nothing to do with Bane or any other Sith, for that matter. As a matter of fact, Dooku was more directly instrumental for Palpatine's victory than Bane.





You haven't read the Bane trilogy, have you? It is Bane's arrogance and selfishness that ultimately costs him his life against Zannah. His belief in her inferiority and his right to rule doomed him.

As far as a fight is concerned, Palpatine enjoys a definite edge in power based on sources alone.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin walked in at the perfect time and Palpatine usually knows how to make the best of a bad situation(being at the mercy of your opponent and still managing to kill your opponent) kinda thing.

IMO Sidious was never at the mercy of his opponent. He was faking, because he knew Anakin would step in to keep him from being killed so Anakin could save Padme. It was a lure to draw Anakin to the darkside.

But we are regressing. The Jedi Order had Yoda and Mace, but are they really the top Jedi ever? Just like the Sith we dont hear anything about the Jedi for thousands of years. One thing you can look at though is the Jedi during the time of the Brotherhood of Darkness. They were much stronger and more powerfull during this time. The had control over the entire Repbulic fleet and armies. They had more Jedi that could do more things, like battle meditation, seeing into future, hand to hand combat, healers, etc.etc.etc... The Jedi during Sidious time, and the thousands of years before then weren't much more then embassadors and political police. As such much of what the Jedi were was lost.

Originally posted by CaedusRules
IMO Sidious was never at the mercy of his opponent. He was faking, because he knew Anakin would step in to keep him from being killed so Anakin could save Padme. It was a lure to draw Anakin to the darkside.

But we are regressing. The Jedi Order had Yoda and Mace, but are they really the top Jedi ever? Just like the Sith we dont hear anything about the Jedi for thousands of years. One thing you can look at though is the Jedi during the time of the Brotherhood of Darkness. They were much stronger and more powerfull during this time. The had control over the entire Repbulic fleet and armies. They had more Jedi that could do more things, like battle meditation, seeing into future, hand to hand combat, healers, etc.etc.etc... The Jedi during Sidious time, and the thousands of years before then weren't much more then embassadors and political police. As such much of what the Jedi were was lost.

Didn't GL himself say Mace defeated Sidious, in which case, Sidious was at the mercy of Windu.

And yes, Yoda and Windu are two of the most powerful Jedi of all time.

He said Mace overpowered Palps in the saber duel. Take that as you will.

Originally posted by PencilInEyelulz
Who says that Bane's network was still functioning a millennium later?



Who says that Palpatine made use of Bane's monetary wealth a millennium later?



What Holocrons and how many?



This is the only real one you've offered.



The Sith's secrecy was something that had to be maintained by Bane's successors and was not a direct product of Bane alone.



To be honest, I'm not seeing much from you by way of sources.



It might be all of the glaring typos and absurdly selected words, but there are sources that indicate otherwise. George Lucas has referred to the PT as the "golden age of the Jedi," which is corroborated by The Star Wars Saga Edition Core Rulebook.



Based on... what?



Order 66 for sheer irony and hilarity. The Thought Bomb was neither of Bane's design nor a product of his own power, he required the energies of the other members of the Brotherhood in order to complete the ritual.



Bane's establishment of the Rule of Two did nothing but help maintain Sith secrecy, which was important to Palpatine's victory but hardly the primary reason for it. Krayt managed to keep his Sith in secret until he chose to reveal himself, and he did so without Bane's precepts.

The major achievements of Palpatine's success: his election to the office of Supreme Chancellor, his initiation and manipulation of the Clone Wars, his enacting of Order 66... had nothing to do with Bane or any other Sith, for that matter. As a matter of fact, Dooku was more directly instrumental for Palpatine's victory than Bane.





You haven't read the Bane trilogy, have you? It is Bane's arrogance and selfishness that ultimately costs him his life against Zannah. His belief in her inferiority and his right to rule doomed him.

As far as a fight is concerned, Palpatine enjoys a definite edge in power based on sources alone.

I have read the Bane Trilogy, and it wasn't Bane's arrogance that got him killed. He knew that he must die by his apprentice's hands. It was his belief that he must keep the Sith strong that lead Bane to challenge Zannah right after his imprisonment. He knew that if they didn't fight it out then, then Zannah would go off and train another sith, and it would fracture his order. He knew, win or lose, it was the only way to keep the ROT true and together. He also knew heading into the fight it was 50-50 he would win or lose... How is that underestimating Zannah or being Arrogant? Maybe you should re-read the books.

Sorry if my writing isnt up to your standard, but Im Dyslexic and I dont feel like spell checking everything.

Lucas might call that era the Golden Age, but you know what... Feeble 70 year olds in Florida say they are in thier golden age too... Golden age could refer to the sun setting on the order.

BTW where are you souces that say Sidious didn't benefit from anything Bane or his "decendants" did.... This is all theory and much of it is up for debate, thus the forum...

Originally posted by CaedusRules
IMO Sidious was never at the mercy of his opponent. He was faking, because he knew Anakin would step in to keep him from being killed so Anakin could save Padme. It was a lure to draw Anakin to the darkside.

But we are regressing. The Jedi Order had Yoda and Mace, but are they really the top Jedi ever? Just like the Sith we dont hear anything about the Jedi for thousands of years. One thing you can look at though is the Jedi during the time of the Brotherhood of Darkness. They were much stronger and more powerfull during this time. The had control over the entire Repbulic fleet and armies. They had more Jedi that could do more things, like battle meditation, seeing into future, hand to hand combat, healers, etc.etc.etc... The Jedi during Sidious time, and the thousands of years before then weren't much more then embassadors and political police. As such much of what the Jedi were was lost. That's ridiculous to assume he faked losing. GL already stated Windu beat him. There's nothing to it more than someone wishing he didn't lose. I like Sidious a lot as well but he lost.

Whether the jedo order was it's most powerful or not it was firmly in control until order 66 and the defeat of Windu and the other jedi masters. On that night alone they were wiped out to the point of having to hide out because Sidious was firmly in control.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
And yes, Yoda and Windu are two of the most powerful Jedi of all time.

Debatable... But you could also say "that we know of so far." Many generations we do not know about. We only have a glimpse of a small portion of the EU...

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's ridiculous to assume he faked losing. GL already stated Windu beat him. There's nothing to it more than someone wishing he didn't lose. I like Sidious a lot as well but he lost.

Whether the jedo order was it's most powerful or not it was firmly in control until order 66 and the defeat of Windu and the other jedi masters. On that night alone they were wiped out to the point of having to hide out because Sidious was firmly in control.

But again... Sidious wipes out the Jedi, Bane wipes out the Brotherhood... This all comes down to them being about equal.

And I'll take it one step further... If bane could face Sidious with the Ob armor... I think Bane would win...

I agree

Originally posted by ares834
He said Mace overpowered Palps in the saber duel. Take that as you will.

This.

Is it not plausible that Palpatine allowed himself to be overpowered?

I would think so.

Lol, I don't think so.

CaedusRules
I have read the Bane Trilogy, and it wasn't Bane's arrogance that got him killed. He knew that he must die by his apprentice's hands. It was his belief that he must keep the Sith strong that lead Bane to challenge Zannah right after his imprisonment. He knew that if they didn't fight it out then, then Zannah would go off and train another sith, and it would fracture his order. He knew, win or lose, it was the only way to keep the ROT true and together. He also knew heading into the fight it was 50-50 he would win or lose... How is that underestimating Zannah or being Arrogant? Maybe you should re-read the books.

Bane attacked Zannah because he didn't feel that she was up to the task of replacing him and he sought immortality through the essence transfer ritual. He succumbed to his egotism and selfishness and had no intention of being replaced by her.



Well boy do I feel like a prick now. My bad.



What Lucas says is canon around here.



That no source to my knowledge indicates that Sidious did benefit from it. If he did, I'll accept it upon seeing proof.

Originally posted by CaedusRules
But again... Sidious wipes out the Jedi, Bane wipes out the Brotherhood... This all comes down to them being about equal.

And I'll take it one step further... If bane could face Sidious with the Ob armor... I think Bane would win... Sidious ruled the galaxy though. He seemed far more knowledgeable than Bane.

To me honestly Sidious seems like the ultimate sith. he seems like the devil himself, pure evil. That really has nothing to do with anything I just wanted to throw that in there. Continue.

Sidious seems like the most all-arounder of the Sith, while some specific top Sith are better in one specific area or other.

Originally posted by Lucius
Thousands of years of effort, a rogues gallery of ruthless warlords, galactic war sparking tyrants, planet eating Lovecraftian horrors, star killing Force machines... and all they get is thirty years of tyranny.

Fvck, screw further advancing the Sith cause... they all suck.



Though there have been a few cases of the Sith half-winning and then sticking around for a couple centuries, like Darth Ruin leading to a dark age for the Republic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sidious ruled the galaxy though. He seemed far more knowledgeable than Bane.

To me honestly Sidious seems like the ultimate sith. he seems like the devil himself, pure evil. That really has nothing to do with anything I just wanted to throw that in there. Continue.

Agree.

Originally posted by Q99
Sidious seems like the most all-arounder of the Sith, while some specific top Sith are better in one specific area or other.

What area is any sith better in than Sidious?

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Agree.



What area is any sith better in than Sidious? If you agree Sidious is the ultimate sith who would be the ultimate jedi, Yoda ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you agree Sidious is the ultimate sith who would be the ultimate jedi, Yoda ?

Hmm ultimate in the same sense you spoke of Sidious? Yea I'd say Yoda. I mean, Luke is stronger, but he did have his brush with the dark side...where Yoda seemed(from what we know) to have always remained true to the light side.

As far as accomplishments to match Sidious, I don't think any Jedi can really compare directly. However, Jedi and Sith have completely different objectives, so that isn't really fair. Luke accomplished a great amount of non-combat feats like rebuilding the Jedi Order and such. I think that there is just so much more information on Luke and Sidious than there is on Yoda. I'm sure Yoda accomplished some amazing things in his time, but its largely unknown.

In terms of Jedi I'd say either the Exile or Luke. Luke because he's just done so many things and had so many adventures. And the Exile because she stopped the Sith Triumvirate almost single-handedly. Thats a single-handed saving of the galaxy. Surprisingly not many Jedi can match that. Revan maybe, but that was a problem he caused himself, so it doesn't count imo. And Yoda barely accomplished anything that we know of.

Probably Luke though.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Hmm ultimate in the same sense you spoke of Sidious? Yea I'd say Yoda. I mean, Luke is stronger, but he did have his brush with the dark side...where Yoda seemed(from what we know) to have always remained true to the light side.

As far as accomplishments to match Sidious, I don't think any Jedi can really compare directly. However, Jedi and Sith have completely different objectives, so that isn't really fair. Luke accomplished a great amount of non-combat feats like rebuilding the Jedi Order and such. I think that there is just so much more information on Luke and Sidious than there is on Yoda. I'm sure Yoda accomplished some amazing things in his time, but its largely unknown. Thanks for the input put I want to hear other opinions as well and make a duplicate thread with the jedi this time.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin

What area is any sith better in than Sidious?

Bane with the Orbalisks was physically stronger. Revan was a greater general. Plaguies and Krayt had greater control over life and death.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In terms of Jedi I'd say either the Exile or Luke. Luke because he's just done so many things and had so many adventures. And the Exile because she stopped the Sith Triumvirate almost single-handedly. Thats a single-handed saving of the galaxy. Surprisingly not many Jedi can match that. Revan maybe, but that was a problem he caused himself, so it doesn't count imo. And Yoda barely accomplished anything that we know of.

Probably Luke though.

Revan single-handedly saved the galaxy from the Sith Empire and Star Forge, which were much more powerful than the Sith Triumvirate and its assassins.

And the underlying main character of KOTOR 2 was Revan. Revan influenced everything of galactic importance that happened during that time. The Exile wouldn't be the Exile if it wasn't for Revan. Kreia became Darth Trayus as a result of her search for Revan. Indirectly, Nihilus and Sion owe their Sith existence to Revan. The Sith Triumvirate rose out of the remnants of Revan's old Empire, and only grew dominant after Revan had left the known galaxy.

I don't know how you can say Revan doesn't count. As Kreia/Traya herself said, perhaps after meeting the Sith Emperor, Revan had to fall to prevent a greater evil. Granted, he shouldn't have followed such a dark path, but he delayed the Sith Empire's entrance for several hundred years and prevented them from obtaining the Star Forge.

^ Sorry if I came off as a bit hostile there, I didn't really mean to. I agree that Exile was very important, I would just say that Revan > Exile in Jedi importance.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Revan single-handedly saved the galaxy from the Sith Empire and Star Forge, which were much more powerful than the Sith Triumvirate and its assassins.

But he's also the cause of the Sith Empire and the Star Forge, so it balances out there. You get more points for picking up someone else's trash. Or, since this is the Sith thread, he'd get more points if he hadn't worked to stop the Sith powers he created.


Revan's super-important to be sure, but it's half on Jedi side and half on Sith side, so the points are kinda divided for him compared to someone who's great feats are on one side or another.

Originally posted by PencilInEyelulz
Bane attacked Zannah because he didn't feel that she was up to the task of replacing him and he sought immortality through the essence transfer ritual. He succumbed to his egotism and selfishness and had no intention of being replaced by her.


I still think you might have mis-read the final book in the Bane trilogy. Bane didn't think Zannah was up to the task because she did not try and defeat Bane when she noticed his body was failing him. Bane thought she was just waiting for him to die of old age, which was not how the ROT was set up to do. As a result Bane knew he would have to kill Zannah, and train a new apprentice, but because his body was failing him, he needed to find a way to stay alive long enough to train another Sith that could beat him... He had no dilusions of imortality, and egotism and selfishness is not what brought down Bane.

When discussing "significance in role", let's not forget that Bane has the whole Sith'ari thing going for him.

Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
When discussing "significance in role", let's not forget that Bane has the whole Sith'ari thing going for him.

And Adas basically made that legend come into fruitation, stablized the Sith as a race before the coming of the Dark Jedi, and drove off the Infinite Empire.

If it comes to foundation building and legacy, he ought to rank first.

Yeah, no. Unfortunately we are referring to the Sith as an Order rather than as a species. Adas came about a thousand years before the first Sith lord even existed, rendering him invalid.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
If it comes to foundation building and legacy, he ought to rank first.

In such a case I'd give it to Ajunta Pall as he created the Sith as we know them.

this is out of acoplishments
1. although i hate it sidiuos he brought down the repbulic after 25000 years
2. darth nhlius this dude is awsome he practily wiped out the jedi without secrecy
3.darth revan he had amazing force talents


then for power and speacial things
1. darth sion he can live forever
2. starkiller godly force talent
3. sidious was just downright powerful

Originally posted by ares834
In such a case I'd give it to Ajunta Pall as he created the Sith as we know them.

Good point, but Pall turned out to be a pussy, so **** him.