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In this thread, we are going to tackle showings that greatly contradict one another and try to decide (or argue rather) which showing is the "PIS'ier" of the two...

For example, the combined might of 3 High End Skyfathers couldnt even tickle a lone Celestial (Arishem), yet Thor was able to bust open the armor of (and actually harm) a Celestial more powerful than Arishem (Exitar)...

The Thor busting Celestial Armor feat or the inability of the 3 Skyfathers combined to even tickle one...which is the PIS event here?


Thor withstanding multiple attacks from "merciless" Celestials or these same Celestials blasting holes into the 2000ft Destroyer...which is PIS?

Odin busting Galaxies as a side effect of his battle against Seth or Odin failing to put a shieldless Thanos down for the count with one of his greatest weapons in hand...which of these scream PIS?

Galactus outlasting (and out performing) multiple Celestials against The Galactus Engine or Galactus struggling with Odin...which of these is BS writing?

Doctor Doom instantly being aware (via Galactus's Cosmic Awareness) of everything pertaining to War World or Galactus failing to realize that Aggomotto was more than a "mere" Catapillar...which of these showings gets the vote of PIS?

The Silver Surfer withstanding the tremendous gravitational force of a Black Hole or the Silver Surfer being taken out by a few punches from Thanos...one of these has GOT to be PIS; which is it?


I await your responses...

Thanos wasn't shieldless for his battle with Odin.

Beyond that, IMO, there's no "right" answer here: each of the instances you've mentioned took places across various periods of time, with different writers. Because of that, you've got different conceptions of what these characters should be based on the viewpoints of the writer at the time. It's why SA Supes was sneezing away galaxies on a whim, while Byrne Era Supes got KOed by an exploding gas station. Some writers viewed the Celestials as uber-powerful beings who were supposed to be well above skyfathers, while others seemed to have a more toned down view of them. Same goes for guys like Odin (went from rocking galaxies to being portrayed by Fraction as not being able to control time), and Galactus (whose showings vary wildly, IMO).

Given that, I can't say that these showings are PIS; they're simply the result of how the writers view each character.

EDIT: Except for Supes and the gas station one. That was atrocious.

Another PIS vs PIS question...

The Silver Surfer being effortlessly one shotted by Odin or the Silver Surfer withstanding multiple attacks from Aegis and Tenebrous...these showings dont add up; one of them is phony...which is it?

@Harbinger....

The instance with the 2000ft Destroyer getting holes blasted into it and Thor tanking multiple Celestial attacks took place in the very same comic...what about this one?

The rest, you are correct about...different times, different writers...but that said, our debates here on KMC are meaningless if their isnt some consensus pertaining to extreme showings like the above.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Another PIS vs PIS question...

The Silver Surfer being effortlessly one shotted by Odin or the Silver Surfer withstanding multiple attacks from Aegis and Tenebrous...these showings dont add up; one of them is phony...which is it?

From what I remember when Galactus fought Tenebrous and Aegis Surfer was put down pretty easy but just one of these guys. You don't have to go all the way back to Odin.

Its been a while since I read that as well...so you might be right that he was only beat on by one of them; could swear both of them got some licks in though.

I am certain that he wasnt one shotted though...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Its been a while since I read that as well...so you might be right that he was only beat on by one of them; could swear both of them got some licks in though.

I am certain that he wasnt one shotted though...


They were two fight one Galactus and Surfer vs Terberus and Aegis that fight it took two shot from Aegis one to take him out of the air and another to crush him with her hand.

The second fight was Surfer alone that's the one where he took multiple shots from both of them I counted 4 a combination of energy and physical he was still conscious and could move.

But yeah he was not one-shotted but these two fight were not even consistent themselves so.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In this thread, we are going to tackle showings that greatly contradict one another and try to decide (or argue rather) which showing is the "PIS'ier" of the two...

For example, the combined might of 3 High End Skyfathers couldnt even tickle a lone Celestial (Arishem), yet Thor was able to bust open the armor of (and actually harm) a Celestial more powerful than Arishem (Exitar)...

The Thor busting Celestial Armor feat or the inability of the 3 Skyfathers combined to even tickle one...which is the PIS event here?


Thor withstanding multiple attacks from "merciless" Celestials or these same Celestials blasting holes into the 2000ft Destroyer...which is PIS?

Odin busting Galaxies as a side effect of his battle against Seth or Odin failing to put a shieldless Thanos down for the count with one of his greatest weapons in hand...which of these scream PIS?

Galactus outlasting (and out performing) multiple Celestials against The Galactus Engine or Galactus struggling with Odin...which of these is BS writing?

Doctor Doom instantly being aware (via Galactus's Cosmic Awareness) of everything pertaining to War World or Galactus failing to realize that Aggomotto was more than a "mere" Catapillar...which of these showings gets the vote of PIS?

The Silver Surfer withstanding the tremendous gravitational force of a Black Hole or the Silver Surfer being taken out by a few punches from Thanos...one of these has GOT to be PIS; which is it?


I await your responses... loaded questions

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The Thor busting Celestial Armor feat or the inability of the 3 Skyfathers combined to even tickle one...which is the PIS event here?
Going with Thor here.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thor withstanding multiple attacks from "merciless" Celestials or these same Celestials blasting holes into the 2000ft Destroyer...which is PIS?
Both.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Odin busting Galaxies as a side effect of his battle against Seth or Odin failing to put a shieldless Thanos down for the count with one of his greatest weapons in hand...which of these scream PIS?
Odin had never displayed power to rock the multiverse before, and he hasn't since. Why the f*** should a single skyfather be able to destroy a galaxy? It's totally inconsistent with their numbers and functions.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Galactus outlasting (and out performing) multiple Celestials against The Galactus Engine or Galactus struggling with Odin...which of these is BS writing? Fraction.


Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Doctor Doom instantly being aware (via Galactus's Cosmic Awareness) of everything pertaining to War World or Galactus failing to realize that Aggomotto was more than a "mere" Catapillar...which of these showings gets the vote of PIS? Agoomotto.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The Silver Surfer withstanding the tremendous gravitational force of a Black Hole or the Silver Surfer being taken out by a few punches from Thanos...one of these has GOT to be PIS; which is it? In comics, they're not all that comparable events.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In this thread, we are going to tackle showings that greatly contradict one another and try to decide (or argue rather) which showing is the "PIS'ier" of the two...

For example, the combined might of 3 High End Skyfathers couldnt even tickle a lone Celestial (Arishem), yet Thor was able to bust open the armor of (and actually harm) a Celestial more powerful than Arishem (Exitar)...

The Thor busting Celestial Armor feat or the inability of the 3 Skyfathers combined to even tickle one...which is the PIS event here?


Thor withstanding multiple attacks from "merciless" Celestials or these same Celestials blasting holes into the 2000ft Destroyer...which is PIS?

Odin busting Galaxies as a side effect of his battle against Seth or Odin failing to put a shieldless Thanos down for the count with one of his greatest weapons in hand...which of these scream PIS?

Galactus outlasting (and out performing) multiple Celestials against The Galactus Engine or Galactus struggling with Odin...which of these is BS writing?

Doctor Doom instantly being aware (via Galactus's Cosmic Awareness) of everything pertaining to War World or Galactus failing to realize that Aggomotto was more than a "mere" Catapillar...which of these showings gets the vote of PIS?

The Silver Surfer withstanding the tremendous gravitational force of a Black Hole or the Silver Surfer being taken out by a few punches from Thanos...one of these has GOT to be PIS; which is it?


I await your responses...

Actually scientifically what Thor did made sense.
Thor not only hit a larger Celestial in a much smaller area than what the skyfathers did but Thor used physical force instead.
Now pressure=force / area ratio
That means since the area ratio of Thor's attack to Exitar's size was many many times smaller than the skyfather's attack on smaller Celestials. So Thor didn't need to apply the same force but a smaller one. Second, physical attacks are totally different than energy based attacks.
Celestials can absorb energy very well, a blast to them should do nothing (if they are conscious of it coming). Now Thor not only hit Exitar when it wasn't aware but he did it with physical force.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually scientifically what Thor did made sense.
Thor not only hit a larger Celestial in a much smaller area than what the skyfathers did but Thor used physical force instead.
Now pressure=force / area ratio
That means since the area ratio of Thor's attack to Exitar's size was many many times smaller than the skyfather's attack on smaller Celestials. So Thor didn't need to apply the same force but a smaller one. Second, physical attacks are totally different than energy based attacks.
Celestials can absorb energy very well, a blast to them should do nothing (if they are conscious of it coming). Now Thor not only hit Exitar when it wasn't aware but he did it with physical force.

I was actually thinking more about the armor of Exitars inner dome; are we really supposed to believe that Thors God Blast exceeds the total energy output of 3 High End Skyfathers?

But even Thor busting open Exitars armor is suspect; are we really to believe that Thor can breach Celestial Armor with blunt force, but the 2000ft Destroyer (which was powered by Odin and all of Asgard combined) is incapable of harming them with blunt force (remember, the "planet pulverizing" blows from the 2000ft Destroyer did absolutely nothing to one of the Celestials) attacks!?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In this thread, we are going to tackle showings that greatly contradict one another and try to decide (or argue rather) which showing is the "PIS'ier" of the two...

For example, the combined might of 3 High End Skyfathers couldnt even tickle a lone Celestial (Arishem), yet Thor was able to bust open the armor of (and actually harm) a Celestial more powerful than Arishem (Exitar)...

The Thor busting Celestial Armor feat or the inability of the 3 Skyfathers combined to even tickle one...which is the PIS event here?


Thor withstanding multiple attacks from "merciless" Celestials or these same Celestials blasting holes into the 2000ft Destroyer...which is PIS?

Odin busting Galaxies as a side effect of his battle against Seth or Odin failing to put a shieldless Thanos down for the count with one of his greatest weapons in hand...which of these scream PIS?

Galactus outlasting (and out performing) multiple Celestials against The Galactus Engine or Galactus struggling with Odin...which of these is BS writing?

Doctor Doom instantly being aware (via Galactus's Cosmic Awareness) of everything pertaining to War World or Galactus failing to realize that Aggomotto was more than a "mere" Catapillar...which of these showings gets the vote of PIS?

The Silver Surfer withstanding the tremendous gravitational force of a Black Hole or the Silver Surfer being taken out by a few punches from Thanos...one of these has GOT to be PIS; which is it?


I await your responses...

Thor taking Celestial beams are PIS
Thanos withstanding Odin is PIS
Galactus struggling with Odin is PIS
Surfer could have been controlling or absorbing the gravitational waves on himself inside the black hole. Also there is a feat where Surfer is broken into many pieces but is not only still alive but very conscious as well. The latter feat is PIS

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I was actually thinking more about the armor of Exitars inner dome; are we really supposed to believe that Thors God Blast exceeds the total energy output of 3 High End Skyfathers?

Oh yes I forgot. Maybe Exitar has to be conscious of the attack in order to absorb or block it. Maybe that is what the Celestials did to the skyfathers attack.

If it was pure armor and zero energy manipulation that stopped the skyfathers attack then of course what Thor did was PIS.

Originally posted by h1a8
Oh yes I forgot. Maybe Exitar has to be conscious of the attack in order to absorb or block it. Maybe that is what the Celestials did to the skyfathers attack.

If it was pure armor and zero energy manipulation that stopped the skyfathers attack then of course what Thor did was PIS.

There was no indication that the Celestials did anything to manipulate the energies being hurled at them by Thor or the Skyfathers...they just stood there like they always do and tanked it.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
There was no indication that the Celestials did anything to manipulate the energies being hurled at them by Thor or the Skyfathers...they just stood there like they always do and tanked it.

I know that is why I said

If it was pure armor and zero energy manipulation that stopped the skyfathers attack then of course what Thor did was PIS.

Consistent performance vs direct competition serve as a way to balance out so called space cheese. Then you have to factor in cliches like holding back vs not holding back, was the person manipulating some kind of energy force etc.

Originally posted by dmills
Consistent performance vs direct competition serve as a way to balance out so called space cheese. Then you have to factor in cliches like holding back vs not holding back, was the person manipulating some kind of energy force etc.


Or simply that comics were never meant to be subjected to the kind of scrutiny they are on battle boards.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Or simply that comics were never meant to be subjected to the kind of scrutiny they are on battle boards. This. I love how the OP acts like comics are written for vs boards. Whoever has the bigger feats blah blah blah. Comics were never written for that. This scrutiny is hilarious. Sure there are tons of PIS moments out there, some characters being written down to make others look good, etc, etc. This is the dumbest thread out there. You can find pis in nearly any comic ever written. What's the point.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Or simply that comics were never meant to be subjected to the kind of scrutiny they are on battle boards. Spot on, when the majority of these feats happened the net wasnt around for masses to compare and complain about so there was no need for such "continuity"

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Or simply that comics were never meant to be subjected to the kind of scrutiny they are on battle boards.

But there MUST be some sort of hierarchy in place otherwise what's the point? The discussions on this forum become pointless. The "Relative Strengths and Powers" scan from Thor Annual 14 was fine.

It went from lowest to highest :

Gods
Special Gods
Trans Tier (Mangog, etc...)
Cube Beings/Skyfathers/Ego?/Galactus
Celestials
Special Celestials
Abstracts
Living Tribunal

But now you have power levels that vary depending on writer. LordofMurder's Galactus example hit the nail on the head. One minute he's the last man standing (Aegis dead, Teneberous and the Celestials AWOL) vs the Galactus Engine, next minute he's in a sweaty stalemate vs Odin.

And the "internet and message boards weren't around back then" excuse doesn't hold up because this example is recent.

Originally posted by zopzop
But there MUST be some sort of hierarchy in place otherwise what's the point? The discussions on this forum become pointless. The "Relative Strengths and Powers" scan from Thor Annual 14 was fine.

It went from lowest to highest :

Gods
Special Gods
Trans Tier (Mangog, etc...)
Cube Beings/Skyfathers/Ego?/Galactus
Celestials
Special Celestials
Abstracts
Living Tribunal

But now you have power levels that vary depending on writer. LordofMurder's Galactus example hit the nail on the head. One minute he's the last man standing (Aegis dead, Teneberous and the Celestials AWOL) vs the Galactus Engine, next minute he's in a sweaty stalemate vs Odin.

And the "internet and message boards weren't around back then" excuse doesn't hold up because this example is recent. Of course it holds up the vast majority of them feats are from ages ago, and the Odin/Galactus thing hasnt even ended yet and what esle did you expect ? Odin to get stomped in Thors main book lol

Originally posted by Nihilist
Odin to get stomped in Thors main book lol

What does the comic it takes place in have to do with anything? So if Odin fought the Infinites he'd put up a fight just because it's in Thor's book?

Originally posted by zopzop
What does the comic it takes place in have to do with anything? So if Odin fought the Infinites he'd put up a fight just because it's in Thor's book?

Originally posted by zopzop
What does the comic it takes place in have to do with anything? So if Odin fought the Infinites he'd put up a fight just because it's in Thor's book? More often than not yeah, Thats why the heroes/stars of the book rarely get their ass handed to them.

Originally posted by zopzop

And the "internet and message boards weren't around back then" excuse doesn't hold up because this example is recent.
As I said earlier, if you looked hard enough, you can find PIS in every comic ever written. The fact is, forums HONESTLY don't matter to writers; not in the Golden Age, or here today. That's the point. I'm sure Fraction doesn't give a damn about what JoEE3454 thinks about his stories.

People cant say Thor showings are PIS because its consistent enough to be valid for the character... even during Modern times.

Originally posted by zopzop
What does the comic it takes place in have to do with anything? So if Odin fought the InfinitesGalactus he'd put up a fight just because it's in Thor's book? It's like you took the words right out of my mouth, zopy.

Originally posted by zopzop
What does the comic it takes place in have to do with anything? So if Odin fought the Infinites he'd put up a fight just because it's in Thor's book? More often than not yeah, it very rare the heros/main stars of the books get stomped.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
As I said earlier, if you looked hard enough, you can find PIS in every comic ever written. The fact is, forums HONESTLY don't matter to writers; not in the Golden Age, or here today. That's the point. I'm sure Fraction doesn't give a damn about what JoEE3454 thinks about his stories.

While its true that vs boards make up a minuscule portion of the readership, forums by far make the most noise and can ruin a writer's rep. Believe me they care. Grant Morrison went on a rant about this not too long ago.

Nowadays a writer better get his/her stuff right or they'll definitely be hearing about it.

.

Mostly writers only care if they can keep getting a paycheck. As long as their stuff is selling, they'll make money. A few writers have lashed out against forum members, but they are few and far between.

.

Originally posted by Nihilist
More often than not yeah, Thats why the heroes/stars of the book rarely get their ass handed to them.

On Alvaro's board, I asked Walter Simonson who he'd have win a fight between Superman and Orion.

His response: Superman if it's in Supermans book, Orion if it's in Orions book.

.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Mostly writers only care if they can keep getting a paycheck. As long as their stuff is selling, they'll make money. A few writers have lashed out against forum members, but they are few and far between.

I guess you've never been to Tom Brevoort's formspring. Believe me they see and hear everything. Maybe highly established writers like Fraction care about it less then say, Abnett and Lanning, but believe me these writers are not apathetic.

Originally posted by dmills
I guess you've never been to Tom Brevoort's formspring. Not just lashing out like Grant. Believe me they see and hear everything. Marvel in particular.

Forum Fanboys only download comics for free so why should they care?

Originally posted by cdtm
On Alvaro's board, I asked Walter Simonson who he'd have win a fight between Superman and Orion.

His response: Superman if it's in Supermans book, Orion if it's in Orions book.

Ok then ask him who'd win in a fight between Superman and Anti-Monitor.

Originally posted by skinfull
More should as forummers are not comic fans, they do not buy comics. They are fans of scan mostly.

Now there's a redundant statement. Not to mention a broad generalization. It's a versus forum and thus scans play a fairly large part in what goes on. However in the general discussion forum scans rarely ever play a serious role. It's just fans talking comics.

Originally posted by skinfull
Forum Fanboys only download comics for free so why should they care?

Not doubting that some do, but imho the piracy issue is but a strawman. Comic sales have trended down hard since the 90s, well before broadband became commonplace.

Originally posted by skinfull
Forum Fanboys only download comics for free so why should they care?

Doesn't matter, they discovered movies are a far more profitable income source anyways.

Originally posted by Cogito
Doesn't matter, they discovered movies are a far more profitable income source anyways. Yep.

Comic films are a fashion at the moment, that's true, Sci Fi films were for a bit after Star Wars. The characters and ideas will go out of fashion in films, just like Westerns etc. Soon or later downloaders will kill comics. It will be the KMC kiddies of this world who do it!

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
The fact is, forums HONESTLY don't matter to writers; not in the Golden Age, or here today. That's the point. I'm sure Fraction doesn't give a damn about what JoEE3454 thinks about his stories.

That's not an absolute truth...many writers have gone onto CBR to view feedback/review threads of issues they wrote and then commented accordingly to both praise and criticism. In fact, the editor of Annihilation, Andy Schmidt, spent several months in his own dedicated super thread replying to feedback. Granted he was probably solicited by CBR to do the thread but he even went into other threads and commented in those. Maybe not the "architect" writers or whatever BS they're called, but the professionals in general still do care to a very high degree.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Another PIS vs PIS question...

The Silver Surfer being effortlessly one shotted by Odin or the Silver Surfer withstanding multiple attacks from Aegis and Tenebrous...these showings dont add up; one of them is phony...which is it?

Against Odin, Surfer was doing his own thing in the cosmos and his mentality was trying to help an ally in Thor who was suffering from and indeterminable ailment, which meant confronting Thor's "jumping to conclusions" father.

Against T&A, Galactus had upgraded SS's power, reinstated him as herald, and SS's mentality was, having reaffirmed his personal role in preserving universal balance, delaying -at any cost, even his own life- 2 entities that would destroy cosmic consonance until Galactus arrived.

So the context is quite different.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
Against Odin, Surfer was doing his own thing in the cosmos and his mentality was trying to help an ally in Thor who was suffering from and indeterminable ailment, which meant confronting Thor's "jumping to conclusions" father.

Against T&A, Galactus had upgraded SS's power, reinstated him as herald, and SS's mentality was, having reaffirmed his personal role in preserving universal balance, delaying -at any cost, even his own life- 2 entities that would destroy cosmic consonance until Galactus arrived.

So the context is quite different.

He was CASUALLY one shotted by Odin. It don't make a difference what his mentality was if he's in a mini coma.

Originally posted by zopzop
He was CASUALLY one shotted by Odin. It don't make a difference what his mentality was if he's in a mini coma.

He was upgraded by Galactus and his mentality and determination and will power are integral parts of his character when facing adversity. Stop trolling, my first phrase alone meant your whole post is invalid except to troll.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
He was upgraded by Galactus and his mentality and determination and will power are integral parts of his character when facing adversity. Stop trolling, my first phrase alone meant your whole post is invalid except to troll.

No one is trolling. Surfer got casually one shotted by Odin, while Aegis and Teneberous took multiple shots at him and he was still conscious. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Nihilist
More often than not yeah, Thats why the heroes/stars of the book rarely get their ass handed to them.

This is the reality of most pis

Originally posted by zopzop
No one is trolling. Surfer got casually one shotted by Odin, while Aegis and Teneberous took multiple shots at him and he was still conscious. Deal with it.

No doubt you either choose not to comprehend stories, or don't understand what's presented in a story.

No one has to deal with that but you.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
No doubt you either choose not to comprehend stories, or don't understand what's presented in a story.

No one has to deal with that but you.

I understand that Odin did what TWO cosmics couldn't do (OHKO the Surfer). I'm just curious as to what your excuse is going to be when Odin/Thor get through wiping the floor with Galactus/Surfer.

KO! What made you think he was KO"d in that single shot from Odin? He was completely fine after that epic fight between Thanos and Odin, infact Moondragon and Warlock who was watching the whole fight made mention of Surfer being ok and able to take care of himself after that shot.. So no your wrong there..

Originally posted by Ambient
KO! What made you think he was KO"d in that single shot from Odin? He was completely fine after that epic fight between Thanos and Odin, infact Moondragon and Warlock who was watching the whole fight made mention of Surfer being ok and able to take care of himself after that shot.. So no your wrong there..

Of course he was fine, Odin just wanted him out the way, not dead. The fact is after Odin swatted him, he learned his lesson and stayed out the fight.

I was just ref. to you saying he was KO'd after that shot, which he wasn't.. By learned you mean being smart then you are right, specially after seeing all that destructive power being thrown in that fight.. The point is that Odin needs to throw a lot more than what was displayed in Blood and Thunder mini to put down Surfer perhaps similar destructive power shown in Tenebrous and Aegis fight..

Didnt Aegis one shot Galactus with a blast to the back of the head?

Thanos planned it..

Hit and Ambush them at they're weakest..