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Current Hulk & Gladiator VS Odin (In a Fist Fight)


no energy projection/amping allowed; only strength/durability amping allowed . WBH enters fight enraged & going all out; gladiator is at his highest known confidence level. Fisting fighting ONLY. no grappling, flying, etc.









who wins this?

Kallark is useless here.

Odin wins.

Gladiator would be incinerated by the very impact caused by Hulk and Odin striking each other.

Odin.

odin.doesnt have to many physical feats, if it werent for zeus showing that skyfathers are ridicuosly strong i would of said hulk stomps

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gladiator would be incinerated by the very impact caused by Hulk and Odin striking each other.

Odin.



By the way... Odin wins this.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
odin.doesnt have to many physical feats, if it werent for zeus showing that skyfathers are ridicuosly strong i would of said hulk stomps

facepalm

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
odin.doesnt have to many physical feats, if it werent for zeus showing that skyfathers are ridicuosly strong i would of said hulk stomps Originally posted by Harbinger
facepalm

This is crazy, Odin has no feats that put him over Glads in physical strength. I say Glads beats Odin solo in h2h due to speed and better strength (by feats).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gladiator would be incinerated by the very impact caused by Hulk and Odin striking each other.

Odin.

Glads can survive in the heart of a star. Core of star> What Hulk did
Hulk isn't going to tickle him.

Maybe you shouldn't go by feats, because they are steering you in the wrong (some might say retarded) direction. Why would you knowingly choose to be wrong?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gladiator would be incinerated by the very impact caused by Hulk and Odin striking each other.

Odin.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Maybe you shouldn't go by feats, because they are steering you in the wrong (some might say retarded) direction. Why would you knowingly choose to be wrong?

Feats determine what a character can do at their best.
The core of a star >>> what Hulk and she red hulk did.

How am I wrong?

Originally posted by Wodenson
Maybe you shouldn't go by feats, because they are steering you in the wrong (some might say retarded) direction. Why would you knowingly choose to be wrong?

Rotflmao!

Gladiator? Really? smh...

Originally posted by h1a8
This is crazy, Odin has no feats that put him over Glads in physical strength. I say Glads beats Odin solo in h2h due to speed and better strength (by feats).

Glads can survive in the heart of a star. Core of star> What Hulk did
Hulk isn't going to tickle him.

We've done this before. It never ends well. You end up doing so much spinning, you might as well be one of Flash's Rogues.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gladiator? Really? smh... didnt someone prove to you that gladiator was stronger than superman?

Originally posted by h1a8
Feats determine what a character can do at their best.
The core of a star >>> what Hulk and she red hulk did.

How am I wrong?

You say that Gladiator is stronger than Odin based on feats. If you're talking about lifting feats, this is true, but it's flat-out wrong when it comes to comparison feats. A comparison feat is not only just as valid, it actually tells us how characters compare (a lifting feat does not).

We know that Gladiator is about as strong as Thor. Odin is about as strong as the Serpent. How do you think Gladiator would fare in HTH combat against someone strong enough to break Captain America's shield?

Again, it appears that you knowingly choose to be wrong. It's like you say, "F**k what's correct, I'm going with my opinion." That is how you appear to me in every one of your posts.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
didnt someone prove to you that gladiator was stronger than superman?

Nope. I doubt they could either.

.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
didnt someone prove to you that gladiator was stronger than superman?
Haha, I'd pay to watch that.

Originally posted by Wodenson
You say that Gladiator is stronger than Odin based on feats. If you're talking about lifting feats, this is true, but it's flat-out wrong when it comes to comparison feats. A comparison feat is not only just as valid, it actually tells us how characters compare (a lifting feat does not).

We know that Gladiator is about as strong as Thor. Odin is about as strong as the Serpent. How do you think Gladiator would fare in HTH combat against someone strong enough to break Captain America's shield?

Again, it appears that you knowingly choose to be wrong. It's like you say, "F**k what's correct, I'm going with my opinion." That is how you appear to me in every one of your posts. do we know thta the serpent used physical strengh only on the shield?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
.

If it was molecular manipulation or a power blast, he wouldn't have vocalized his physical exertion. And the fact that he broke it with his hands is clear enough for me.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha, I'd pay to watch that.

No doubt we'd see arguments about him being three times stronger than Thanos et al.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gladiator? Really? smh...


Don't even go there.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't even go there.

I believe I've already arrived.

Fisting lol

Originally posted by -Pr-
I believe I've already arrived.

We discussed this a yr ago though.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is crazy, Odin has no feats that put him over Glads in physical strength. I say Glads beats Odin solo in h2h due to speed and better strength (by feats).



Glads can survive in the heart of a star. Core of star> What Hulk did
Hulk isn't going to tickle him. c'mon pr, THIS is trolling

Originally posted by carver9
We discussed this a yr ago though.

I remember soundly trouncing you too.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
c'mon pr, THIS is trolling

He brings balance to the force.

But please, use the report function in future.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I remember soundly trouncing you too.



He brings balance to the force.

Lol...Pr, you didn't trounce me at all but I am kind of tired debating the topic about the 2, so I accepted what people think and moved on. Me and Rage was suppose to battlezone this but someone made the thread before I got the chance to gather my scans and people minds are made up now.

From what I hear, Gladiator is about to go nuts not to long from now which will give me more fts. So I will wait until then to battlezone rage again and prove my point on kmc.

Rage, if I win this... I want 1600 Microsoft points sent to my Xbox.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Pr, you didn't trounce me at all but I am kind of tired debating the topic about the 2, so I accepted what people think and moved on. Me and Rage was suppose to battlezone this but someone made the thread before I got the chance to gather my scans and people minds are made up now.

From what I hear, Gladiator is about to go nuts not to long from now which will give me more fts. So I will wait until then to battlezone rage again and prove my point on kmc.

Rage, if I win this... I want 1600 Microsoft points sent to my Xbox.

Denial...

Going to be difficult, though, with Superman being rebooted and all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Denial...

Going to be difficult, though, with Superman being rebooted and all.

Lol...I told you that a long time ago...about 2 to 3 yrs ago and you didn't believe me when I said there was talk about Superman getting depowered.

It's not going to be as bad as you all are making it though. He is still going to be beastly and from what I here...some of his best fts are going to come "after" the reboot.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I told you that a long time ago...about 2 to 3 yrs ago and you didn't believe me when I said there was talk about Superman getting depowered.

It's not going to be as bad as you all are making it though. He is still going to be beastly and from what I here...some of his best fts are going to come "after" the reboot.

Nobody said anything about him being depowered.

Even the reboot says nothing about him being depowered.

So no.

Originally posted by Wodenson
You say that Gladiator is stronger than Odin based on feats. If you're talking about lifting feats, this is true, but it's flat-out wrong when it comes to comparison feats. A comparison feat is not only just as valid, it actually tells us how characters compare (a lifting feat does not).

We know that Gladiator is about as strong as Thor. Odin is about as strong as the Serpent. How do you think Gladiator would fare in HTH combat against someone strong enough to break Captain America's shield?

Again, it appears that you knowingly choose to be wrong. It's like you say, "F**k what's correct, I'm going with my opinion." That is how you appear to me in every one of your posts.

You are the millionth person to bring up lifting feats. Congratulations, you won!

Seriously, I didn't imply nor was I thinking about lifting feats. Feats of strength can involve anything quantifiable (hitting feats, breaking feats, grappling feats, etc.) Odin has done nothing. Any class 100 being can choke Thor or hurt him. Hell someone slightly weaker than me choked me good. It took nearly all my strength to try to break free.

It is not correct that Odin should be physically stronger than Thor. However, it is correct that he should be more powerful.

Also, Glads at high confidence is stronger than Thor. So even if Odin was stronger than Thor then that doesn't make him stronger than Glads.

If Odin is strong as the Serpent and the Serpent is strong enough to physically break CA shield then you are right. Provide evidence that Odin is as strong as the Serpent then provide evidence (issue numbers will suffice) that the Serpent can break CA shield physically (no energy projection).

Then this will be the proof. So why talk down to me and say I should assume something that isn't shown? Just prove your claim. Isn't that what debating is all about?

Odin still wins

Originally posted by -Pr-
He brings balance to the force.
H1PR or PRa8

http://i49.tinypic.com/14aaohf.gif

Originally posted by -Pr-
He brings balance to the force.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/dx.gif

People need to get off odin's nuts. He's not the master of everything.

Hulk and glads tap him out

Odin one shots both of these weak fools

Originally posted by DickBlazer
He's not the master of everything.

Just the master of these two.

Originally posted by h1a8
Seriously, I didn't imply nor was I thinking about lifting feats. Feats of strength can involve anything quantifiable (hitting feats, breaking feats, grappling feats, etc.) Odin has done nothing. Any class 100 being can choke Thor or hurt him.

Odin beat Thor to the point where a pair of generic Asgardians carried him off helplessly.



Fortunately, what should be and what is are entirely different. Odin is physically stronger than Thor. It's been proven, and it's been admitted to by Thor.



No, he's not. He has never displayed physical dominance when they've fought. They have displayed parity.



Yeah, it does. If Odin is strong enough to physically humiliate Thor, he's strong enough to run roughshod over Gladiator. Hold the Gladiator romanticism and just stick with what's been proven.



Wait and see.



See Fear Itself #5.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Odin beat Thor to the point where a pair of generic Asgardians carried him off helplessly.



Fortunately, what should be and what is are entirely different. Odin is physically stronger than Thor. It's been proven, and it's been admitted to by Thor.



No, he's not. He has never displayed physical dominance when they've fought. They have displayed parity.



Yeah, it does. If Odin is strong enough to physically humiliate Thor, he's strong enough to run roughshod over Gladiator. Hold the Gladiator romanticism and just stick with what's been proven.



Wait and see.



See Fear Itself #5.

I see now. This is where we must agree to disagree.
You use reasoning of how characters fair when they engage each other as to who is stronger. Where I use DIRECT evidence of who is stronger (who overpowers who when they are grappled up or who has the better strength feats). The reason I don't use your type of reasoning is because I know that weaker beings can beat or embarrass stronger beings.

Durability, skill, and speed are also other factors. For example, Colossus can hang with beings like Savage Hulk because of his durability and skill. But he is far weaker in strength. Thing can hit nearly as hard as WWH but his durability can't withstand hits from WWH as much.

So, to me it's not about the perception of portrayal since portrayal is subjective and doesn't always conform to what happens on panel.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thing can hit nearly as hard as WWH

Originally posted by h1a8
I see now. This is where we must agree to disagree.
You use reasoning of how characters fair when they engage each other as to who is stronger. Where I use DIRECT evidence of who is stronger (who overpowers who when they are grappled up or who has the better strength feats). The reason I don't use your type of reasoning is because I know that weaker beings can beat or embarrass stronger beings.

Durability, skill, and speed are also other factors. For example, Colossus can hang with beings like Savage Hulk because of his durability and skill. But he is far weaker in strength. Thing can hit nearly as hard as WWH but his durability can't withstand hits from WWH as much.

So, to me it's not about the perception of portrayal since portrayal is subjective and doesn't always conform to what happens on panel.


WTF. So thing can bust Sentry face up? So thing can hit harder than Thor (it was stated on panel that green Scar can hit harder than Thor)? So thing can punch 2 beings including a chunk of a city out of orbit?

From what I seen, thing couldn't even budge Skaar with the aid of the Avengers but Hulk treated Skaar like a step child.

Originally posted by The Sorrow


Either Thing can hit nearly as hard or WWH durability sucks and his HF is utterly awesome.

Originally posted by carver9
WTF. So thing can bust Sentry face up? So thing can hit harder than Thor (it was stated on panel that green Scar can hit harder than Thor)? So thing can punch 2 beings including a chunk of a city out of orbit?

From what I seen, thing couldn't even budge Skaar with the aid of the Avengers but Hulk treated Skaar like a step child.

Stop lowballing. Thing busted WWH's face up good with one punch. Can you say "Super Bloody"?

Odin slaps them into a coma!

Originally posted by h1a8
Either Thing can hit nearly as hard or WWH durability sucks and his HF is utterly awesome
His healing factor is awesome but when did was the Hulk not bleed during WWH? Almost all humanoid characters are depicted as being less invulnerable during this modern age of comics than past eras not just Hulk. Thor, Superman and the like included.

But to your absurd claim, Guido absorbed a regular punch from Hulk and redirected the power at him which rocked the Hulk backwards. In contrast, Thing hit Hulk everything he had in 1 punch and barely flinched him. All this happened during WWH.

To be honest there are hundreds of examples to choose from but this is a direct comparison that can be made between their striking power.

A regular punch from Hulk>>>>Things hardest strike

Originally posted by The Sorrow
His healing factor is awesome but when did was the Hulk not bleed during WWH? Almost all humanoid characters are depicted as being less invulnerable during this modern age of comics than past eras not just Hulk. Thor, Superman and the like included.

But to your absurd claim, Guido absorbed a regular punch from Hulk and redirected the power at him which rocked the Hulk backwards. In contrast, Thing hit Hulk everything he had in 1 punch and barely flinched him. All this happened during WWH.

To be honest there are hundreds of examples to choose from but this is a direct comparison that can be made between their striking power.

A regular punch from Hulk>>>>Things hardest strike

I disagree with your logic. First of all knocking people back is inconsistent in comics. Thing can lift more than 100 tons so knocking a half ton being into the air should be easy as pie. The angle of the blow matters too. For example, all uppercut blows (or blows angled upperwards) SHOULD knock any being off the ground provided that the striker is stronger than the victim's weight.

Because of this, we should look at damage and deformation. Wolverine had a tough time cutting WWH (it wasn't easy). But Thing with one blow seriously messed Hulk's face up. If there were two WWHs fighting each other and one hit the other in the face then I'm not so sure if the damage would be much greater than what Thing did.

........

W......T..........F

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree with your logic. First of all knocking people back is inconsistent in comics. Thing can lift more than 100 tons so knocking a half ton being into the air should be easy as pie. The angle of the blow matters too. For example, all uppercut blows (or blows angled upperwards) SHOULD knock any being off the ground provided that the striker is stronger than the victim's weight.

Because of this, we should look at damage and deformation. Wolverine had a tough time cutting WWH (it wasn't easy). But Thing with one blow seriously messed Hulk's face up. If there were two WWHs fighting each other and one hit the other in the face then I'm not so sure if the damage would be much greater than what Thing did.



Dude how old are you really? Your logic is garbage bottom line. She Hulk and The Thing gave WWH a bloody nose and they got thrashed, and you are sitting there and telling us that was impressive. whats impressive that Hulk didn't kill them in which he could have easily. Read some damn comics, before making any comments think before you speak, every time you speak it's garbage logic that doesn't make sense.

Guys, remember:

Originally posted by -Pr-
He brings balance to the force.

biscuits

Originally posted by the Darkone
Dude how old are you really? Your logic is garbage bottom line. She Hulk and The Thing gave WWH a bloody nose and they got thrashed, and you are sitting there and telling us that was impressive. whats impressive that Hulk didn't kill them in which he could have easily. Read some damn comics, before making any comments think before you speak, every time you speak it's garbage logic that doesn't make sense. Of course its impressive. WWH would have given another WWH the same bloody face with a punch. The fact that Thing's and She Hulk's durability wasn't on WWH's level is the reason they couldn't stand against his blows.

Durability =/= Strength.

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree with your logic. First of all knocking people back is inconsistent in comics. Thing can lift more than 100 tons so knocking a half ton being into the air should be easy as pie. The angle of the blow matters too. For example, all uppercut blows (or blows angled upperwards) SHOULD knock any being off the ground provided that the striker is stronger than the victim's weight.

Because of this, we should look at damage and deformation. Wolverine had a tough time cutting WWH (it wasn't easy). But Thing with one blow seriously messed Hulk's face up. If there were two WWHs fighting each other and one hit the other in the face then I'm not so sure if the damage would be much greater than what Thing did. drylaugh

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Guys, remember:



biscuits pr really shouldn't have said that.

one could interpret that as him endorsing that nonsense only because it's a counter stance against something he agrees should be countered (lack of success/logic notwithstanding), and he's letting h1 do the trench fighting for him.

one could interpret that, yes mmm

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course its impressive. WWH would have given another WWH the same bloody face with a punch. The fact that Thing's and She Hulk's durability wasn't on WWH's level is the reason they couldn't stand against his blows.

Durability =/= Strength.


Durability and strength they couldn't stand a snow ball chance in Hell. It was not impressive, what would have been impressive they KO out of the city they didn't, the Thing got smack down like prostitute on a sidewalk and she-hulk nearly wet herself when Hulk punk'ed her.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
pr really shouldn't have said that.

one could interpret that as him endorsing that nonsense only because it's a counter stance against something he agrees should be countered (lack of success/logic notwithstanding), and he's letting h1 do the trench fighting for him.

one could interpret that, yes mmm

PR is the Palpatine to h1's Vader?

****.

Don't compare h1 with Vader.... Instead compare him to Anakin.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Durability and strength they couldn't stand a snow ball chance in Hell. It was not impressive, what would have been impressive they KO out of the city they didn't, the Thing got smack down like prostitute on a sidewalk and she-hulk nearly wet herself when Hulk punk'ed her.

Who cares how Thing lost. I could break your face in and you beat me like a girl. It wouldn't change the fact that I was strong enough to break your face in.

If WWH hit another WWH in the face then do you think his face would be the same, slightly worst, or very worst than what Thing did?

i think everyone looking at the incident would be vaporized

both hulk's are still grinning

I read like three posts here, and saw something about Thing hitting as hard as WWH.

Classic H1 shenanigans

Originally posted by psycho gundam
pr really shouldn't have said that.

one could interpret that as him endorsing that nonsense only because it's a counter stance against something he agrees should be countered (lack of success/logic notwithstanding), and he's letting h1 do the trench fighting for him.

one could interpret that, yes mmm



Originally posted by JakeTheBank
PR is the Palpatine to h1's Vader?

****.

More like-

Actually, I'm gonna stop there.

--

Guys, keep it on topic please.

Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares how Thing lost. I could break your face in and you beat me like a girl. It wouldn't change the fact that I was strong enough to break your face in.

If WWH hit another WWH in the face then do you think his face would be the same, slightly worst, or very worst than what Thing did?

What's your point?

Originally posted by h1a8
This is crazy, Odin has no feats that put him over Glads in physical strength. I say Glads beats Odin solo in h2h due to speed and better strength (by feats).

Glads can survive in the heart of a star. Core of star> What Hulk did
Hulk isn't going to tickle him.

I'm sorry, but your a f*cking retard. There's really no other description that fits at this point.

Not even going to indulge you anymore by discussing anything. You want to press the matter, I'll battle zone you, that's about it.

Rage, there's no need for that kind of insulting language.

H1, there's absolutely no basis for what you stated if you look at comics with anything approaching common sense. Odin, and most beings of his like, simply don't require strength feats to compete with the likes of Thor, Gladiator, Superman et al. It's, in a word, below them, even considering that this is a fist-fight. I'd advise you to stop lowballing, or you're going to end up getting warned.

And before you bring up Odin's "class", it's an arbitrary figure designed to appease fanboys, and has absolutely no bearing on a fight like this.

Keep arguing you're point H1, never surrender!!!

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
PR is the Palpatine to h1's Vader?

****. the real question is who was carver's yoda

Current Hulk and Glads lose if Odin amps fast enough. Which might prove difficult given Glads speed.. I'm not sure... it would help to see a rematch between Zeus and Hulk now... leaning towards Team imho

Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares how Thing lost. I could break your face in and you beat me like a girl. It wouldn't change the fact that I was strong enough to break your face in.

If WWH hit another WWH in the face then do you think his face would be the same, slightly worst, or very worst than what Thing did? much much worse and hulk's damage soak mostly comes from his dynamic healing factor, not his hard durabilty

Originally posted by -Pr-

What's your point?

I actually forgot what's the relevance of what I'm arguing in respect to the thread itself.
I had to backtrack to find out. It's basically about a character being slammed or choked doesn't mean they are weaker in strength (what Odin did to Thor). Here goes:

Wodenson said,


I said,


Note:
In all the Thor/Odin occurrences Odin took the initiative. Thor never resisted his attack. It was more like a surprised attack.

Carver said,


I said,


Darkone said,


I said,


Note: I wasn't saying nor implying that Thing is strong as WWH, just the fact that his blow resembled a blow that WWH would give to himself (another WWH fighting him). This may be PIS what Thing did but my point is that this occurrence alone would say that WWH is not more than 2x as strong as Thing and Thing's durability is less than WWH's. But other occurrences say that WWH is more than 2x as strong as Thing and what Thing did is maybe PIS.



Darkone said,


And finally I said,


Note:
This was to show that if I'm strong enough to generate great force (resembling yours) then you beating me down doesn't disprove that my hitting power is in the vicinity as yours.


But all of this is moot anyway when I agreed with Wodenson that Odin is stronger than Glads provided that we see that Odin is as strong as the Serpent. I just disagree with choking someone or slamming someone, by surprise attack and someone who weighs far less than your strength, into the ground proves you are stronger.

Originally posted by 753
much much worse and hulk's damage soak mostly comes from his dynamic healing factor, not his hard durabilty

IMO, The feat was PIS. I realize that now. But no one can tell me that Thing didn't apply a WWH like blow, because I've seen it with my own eyes.
http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96241_AA-WWH02-024_122_804lo.jpg

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3047/wwh5finchjr9.jpg

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, The feat was PIS. I realize that now. But no one can tell me that Thing didn't apply a WWH like blow, because I've seen it with my own eyes.

http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=96241_AA-WWH02-024_122_804lo.jpg

Hurting Hulk doesn't make him as strong as Hulk. Or do you mean something else?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Hurting Hulk doesn't make him as strong as Hulk. Or do you mean something else? You didn't read my reply to yours above this. I claimed that is was PIS and Thing had no business hitting WWH in the manner as it would appear that WWH can hit himself with.

Thing is nowhere near as strong as WWH. My point was that if we didn't know anything but that scene we would say that WWH is not more than 2x as strong. But since we have other evidences then we can say that WWH is more than 2x as strong.

@ this part in particular

Originally posted by h1a8
My point was that if we didn't know anything but that scene we would say that WWH is not more than 2x as strong.

Why? How does the scene convey that?

Originally posted by -Pr-
@ this part in particular



Why? How does the scene convey that?

Assuming we never seen WWH or Thing before (these are two new characters) then Thing's blow on WWH makes it seem that his strength is in the vicinity of WWH's. Would you agree? Generally in comics when someone is greatly outclassed in strength then their blows on the much stronger usually doesn't have any effect.

Thor never resisted Odin and Odin always physically attacked Thor by surprise.

Originally posted by h1a8
Assuming we never seen WWH or Thing before (these are two new characters) then Thing's blow on WWH makes it seem that his strength is in the vicinity of WWH's. Would you agree? Generally in comics when someone is greatly outclassed in strength then their blows on the much stronger usually doesn't have any effect.

Thor never resisted Odin and Odin always physically attacked Thor by surprise.

Honestly? No. I always tend to seperate strength and durability. Maybe that's just me.

Originally posted by h1a8
Generally in comics when someone is greatly outclassed in strength then their blows on the much stronger usually doesn't have any effect.

You dirty mutherf*#%$!

Did you really just say that? After all the mind numbing nonsense you've spouted, did you honestly just try and use a showing of durability as a means to determine a gap in strength?

I fear for the safety of those around you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly? No. I always tend to seperate strength and durability. Maybe that's just me.

I do too. I agree 100%. This is point I said in the earlier reply. I was appealing to other member's logic though as well.

Beating on someone and doing damage has to do with the entire combination of skill, durability, strength, and surprise (one not braced for impact) and not just strength alone.

This is my point in why Odin isn't necessarily stronger than Thor unless we see more evidence of his strength (like him being as strong as the Serpent will prove it).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You dirty mutherf*#%$!

Did you really just say that? After all the mind numbing nonsense you've spouted, did you honestly just try and use a showing of durability as a means to determine a gap in strength?

I fear for the safety of those around you.

There are exceptions to the rule as why I said, "Usually". I don't determine stronger by hits on each other since durability and skill and surprise also plays a role. Others do though, I was appealing to their logic more than my own.

My point was to show Thing hitting WWH in that manner either means he is as strong as WWH or that hitting damage alone can't determine it. That is why Odin is not necessarily stronger than Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8
I do too. I agree 100%. This is point I said in the earlier reply. I was appealing to other member's logic though as well.

Beating on someone and doing damage has to do with the entire combination of skill, durability, strength, and surprise (one not braced for impact) and not just strength alone.

This is my point in why Odin isn't necessarily stronger than Thor unless we see more evidence of his strength (like him being as strong as the Serpent will prove it).

i really don't think durability plays that much of a part in it, if any, unless it's implicitly stated that the person is punching something ridiculously resilient.

Originally posted by h1a8
There are exceptions to the rule as why I said, "Usually". I don't determine stronger by hits on each other since durability and skill and surprise also plays a role. Others do though, I was appealing to their logic more than my own.

Oh please, give it a rest already. You do a 180 regarding a point when it suits your need. I've seen it more than once, and I've used your own posts to shut you up.

If I gathered up your claims regarding certain topics, you'd probably be nicknamed the Top.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly? No. I always tend to seperate strength and durability. Maybe that's just me.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i really don't think durability plays that much of a part in it, if any, unless it's implicitly stated that the person is punching something ridiculously resilient.
If was stated on panel that WWH is much more durable than all other Hulks (in his fight against Logan).

But we go on a character's history and past feats to gauge durability. For example, I can show you scans where Thing has hit a weaker Hulk (savage) in the face with all his might and didn't put a scratch on him. All he did was knock him back.

Thing and Hulk fought numerous time and Thing never did that type of blow on Hulk ever. To do it on a more durable Hulk is kind of pissy I would say.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh please, give it a rest already. You do a 180 regarding a point when it suits your need. I've seen it more than once, and I've used your own posts to shut you up.

If I gathered up your claims regarding certain topics, you'd probably be nicknamed the Top.

a 180? The whole point of the discussion is to show that Odin never proved he was stronger than Thor.

I used the evidence of Thing vs. Hulk to help show this.

Originally posted by h1a8
If was stated on panel that WWH is much more durable than all other Hulks (in his fight against Logan).

But we go on a character's history and past feats to gauge durability. For example, I can show you scans where Thing has hit a weaker Hulk (savage) in the face with all his might and didn't put a scratch on him. All he did was knock him back.

Thing and Hulk fought numerous time and Thing never did that type of blow on Hulk ever. To do it on a more durable Hulk is kind of pissy I would say.

Tons of people made that Hulk bleed and hurt, though. He didn't seem THAT much more durable to me. His healing was very impressive though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Tons of people made that Hulk bleed and hurt, though. He didn't seem THAT much more durable to me. His healing was very impressive though. I know. Inconsistent writing. Not only lesser Hulks seem more durable than WWH but Logan had a harder time cutting WWH than ever before.

Originally posted by h1a8


Thing and Hulk fought numerous time and Thing never did that type of blow on Hulk ever.


Yes the Thing has done that type blow on Hulk before, it was the grey Hulk the weaker version and Spikey Thing owned him, but round 2 Hulk put Spikey Thing in the hospital. You are overrating the the thing punch that landed on WWHulk which it didn't even fazed him, hence it didn't nothing except piss the WWHulk off more, your problem you read to much into it.



Odin wins anyways, Gladiator will be kissing pavement as where WWHulk would get the worst beating of his life, Zeus beat down would seem a day in the park.

Originally posted by h1a8
I know. Inconsistent writing. Not only lesser Hulks seem more durable than WWH but Logan had a harder time cutting WWH than ever before.

Then if we're in agreement, what's the problem?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Then if we're in agreement, what's the problem?

There was no problem. Just responding to your replies that's all.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Yes the Thing has done that type blow on Hulk before, it was the grey Hulk the weaker version and Spikey Thing owned him, but round 2 Hulk put Spikey Thing in the hospital. You are overrating the the thing punch that landed on WWHulk which it didn't even fazed him, hence it didn't nothing except piss the WWHulk off more, your problem you read to much into it.



Odin wins anyways, Gladiator will be kissing pavement as where WWHulk would get the worst beating of his life, Zeus beat down would seem a day in the park.

The blow deformed Hulk's face and caused him to bleed and be slightly incoherent (slightly dazed). But what does that matter since WWH is far more powerful than Thing?

Originally posted by h1a8
The blow deformed Hulk's face and caused him to bleed and be slightly incoherent (slightly dazed). But what does that matter since WWH is far more powerful than Thing?


We do you get this crap from, Hulk wasn't dazed! I mean damn you reach for the stars, pathetic.

Originally posted by the Darkone
We do you get this crap from, Hulk wasn't dazed! I mean damn you reach for the stars, pathetic.

I didn't say Hulk was dazed. I said he was slightly dazed. Do you know the word 'slightly'? It means barely noticeable. His expression was confusion as he looked at Thing and said, "hmp" while his eyes were not as wide open as before.

What is "hmp"? Hulk was rocked to say such nonsense.

his expression was: "is that all? you're ****ed now, son"

hmp means: "oh really?"

hulk wasnt even the tiniest bit dazed

Originally posted by 753
his expression was: "is that all? you're ****ed now, son"

hmp means: "oh really?"

hulk wasnt even the tiniest bit dazed

Basically! H1 just pulls sh** out of his a$$ that doesn't make sense but only in his mind, Hulk wasn't daze or slightly dazed he was like "really son, you know your f**ked right ?" then Hulk preceded beat the Thing down like the b***h he was and everybody else who wanted some.

You guys are delusional. Clearly 'hmp' is nonsense thing to say. His eyes were also not as wide as before. He looked confused if anything.

There is nothing to indicate that Gladiator is stronger than Thor at full confidence. Suggesting that Gladiator leapfrogs Thor AND Odin is flat-out, balls-to-the-wall, straight-jacket delusional.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't say Hulk was dazed. I said he was slightly dazed. Do you know the word 'slightly'? It means barely noticeable. His expression was confusion as he looked at Thing and said, "hmp" while his eyes were not as wide open as before.

What is "hmp"? Hulk was rocked to say such nonsense.
Are you still trying to argue that Thing hits nearly as hard as WWH? Seriously? He needed an amp just to defeat Joe Fixit who is far far weaker than this current Hulk all round.

I already gave you a DIRECT comparison of their striking power, in the same story and against the same target (Hulk), even the punches were identical but you still somehow dodged it:


Again, Hulk's regular punch>>>>Things best. This proof is on panel.

Originally posted by h1a8
You guys are delusional. Clearly 'hmp' is nonsense thing to say. His eyes were also not as wide as before. He looked confused if anything. hesus ****ing christ. "hmp" isnt a nonsesnsical word uttered by someone whose brain has been rattled, it's a "humpf" like interjection

With regards to this thread IIRC it was implied that Zeus' magic was what messed Hulk up as bad as he was. If this is pure strength and against current Hulk with Glads it would be a lot closer (if we are to believe Zeus is roughly equal to Odin)

Probably still Odin though.

Originally posted by h1a8
in conclusion: the problem is you saying stuff

I think H1 say the things he say for attention. You all are literally feeding him.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Are you still trying to argue that Thing hits nearly as hard as WWH? Seriously? He needed an amp just to defeat Joe Fixit who is far far weaker than this current Hulk all round.

I already gave you a DIRECT comparison of their striking power, in the same story and against the same target (Hulk), even the punches were identical but you still somehow dodged it:


Again, Hulk's regular punch>>>>Things best. This proof is on panel. If you read my replies to PR and some others then you wouldn't have posted this. What a waste of time.

Originally posted by 753
hesus ****ing christ. "hmp" isnt a nonsesnsical word uttered by someone whose brain has been rattled, it's a "humpf" like interjection

If you punch me in the face and I immediately say, "why lue doot that?" then would you think I was slightly dazed?

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkthing1.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkthing2.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulktthing3.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkthing4.jpg

and his sunday punch (boxing term for a boxer's signature knock out blow) vs savage hulk

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/thingsundaypunchhulk.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkthing1.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkthing2.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulktthing3.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkthing4.jpg

and his sunday punch (boxing term for a boxer's signature knock out blow best punch) vs savage hulk

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/thingsundaypunchhulk.jpg I must be very much hated to you. Why didn't you read my posts? The ones I was replying to Pr. I already settle this. I posted evidence of what you shown already. I said, Thing hit a weaker hulk without putting a scratch on him in the past. So what Thing did in WWH was PIS.

I accepted it as PIS. Next time read my posts so that your time isn't wasted posting stuff that don't matter anymore.

Originally posted by h1a8
I must be very much hated to you. Why didn't you read my posts? The ones I was replying to Pr. I already settle this. I posted evidence of what you shown already. I said, Thing hit a weaker hulk without putting a scratch on him in the past. So what Thing did in WWH was PIS.

I accepted it as PIS. Next time read my posts so that your time isn't wasted posting stuff that don't matter anymore.

The Thing didn't even faze Hulk but you keep on insisting on it that he did, you over play things to much instead take what happen face value unless stated by than narrator.

Has anyone noticed that different artists portray injury differently? Romita should have never sketched WWHulk.

Anyways as for this fight, Hulk 634 should beat the hell out of either Zeus or Odin.

Originally posted by the Darkone
The Thing didn't even faze Hulk but you keep on insisting on it that he did, you over play things to much instead take what happen face value unless stated by than narrator.

Didn't faze means "didn't affect". This is false.
If I shine a flashlight on your back without you knowing then this would be equivalent to being unfazed. If I bust your face and cause you to bleed then you are stupid to say I didn't faze you for you know not the meaning of the word.

Originally posted by -Pr-

what "force" is he balancing? your words, not his biscuits

Originally posted by psycho gundam
what "force" is he balancing? your words, not his biscuits The force of unbias debating, objectiveness, and the fact that this forum is stronger towards the Marvel side.

Look at how bias all the Marvel fans are being in a thread involving Hulk, Gladiator, and Odin!

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Look at how bias all the Marvel fans are being in a thread involving Hulk, Gladiator, and Odin! I fail to see the relevance of your post.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Look at how bias all the Marvel fans are being in a thread involving Hulk, Gladiator, and Odin!



He sent me a PM saying that Odin is from DC.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
your words, not his biscuits

prh1 = confirmed

Originally posted by h1a8
The force of unbias debating, objectiveness, and the fact that this forum is stronger towards the Marvel side. also, way to f up royally.

you're the force that counteres unbias debating, objectiveness, and a marvel slanting board. loooool

Originally posted by h1a8
The force of unbias debating, objectiveness, and the fact that this forum is stronger towards the Marvel side.

Well, after I lol'd, I thought about this for a while.

And honestly? Based on what is this forum "stronger towards the Marvel side"? Without naming names, for every "pro-Marvel" guy here, I can think of at least one "pro-DC" guy. And that's without factoring in the people who are more loyal to specific characters than companies and the posters who are for the most part pretty objective across the board.

Trying to act like some paragon to "save us" from the Marvel side of the Force is something else. But you're not the first guy to claim this and I'm sure you won't be the last.

Originally posted by h1a8
I fail to see the relevance of your post. Everyone of your posts. No relevance. To anything.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Everyone of your posts. No relevance. To anything.

Lies!

Originally posted by psycho gundam
what "force" is he balancing? your words, not his biscuits

I think that Pr means that Marvel has Carver and DC has h1a8.

Though Marvel has Quan too, but then again DC has me...

Carver = Plapatine
Quan = Count Dooku

h1a8 = Yoda
moi = Qui Gon-Jinn

duel

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think that Pr means that Marvel has Carver and DC has h1a8.

Though Marvel has Quan too, but then again DC has me...

Carver = Plapatine
Quan = Count Dooku

h1a8 = Yoda
moi = Qui Gon-Jinn


You're telling me Carver is the mastermind?

LOL

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're telling me Carver is the mastermind?

LOL

He is smart enough to fool us all. Think about it, it makes sense. There will come a time, when no one takes him serious anymore and THEN he will tear us apart, with all the scans he has gathered till then, with all the knowledge he keeps from us but sometimes hints at!!!!

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think that Pr means that Marvel has Carver and DC has h1a8.

Though Marvel has Quan too, but then again DC has me...

Carver = Plapatine
Quan = Count Dooku

h1a8 = Yoda
moi = Qui Gon-Jinn

duel lets pretend this is real...

from what i see, both "sides" attack quan and carver while the dc side let's the H1 epidemic run rampant, sometimes cheering him on

Carver would have to have a secret stash of unreleased comics for that. Which he could have seeing as he obviously owns a comic shop

Originally posted by psycho gundam
lets pretend this is real...

from what i see, both "sides" attack quan and carver while the dc side let's the H1 epidemic run rampant, sometimes cheering him on

mmm

I have a bad feeling about this.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
lets pretend this is real...

from what i see, both "sides" attack quan and carver while the dc side let's the H1 epidemic run rampant, sometimes cheering him on

Ok quan is attacked because Carver uses him as cannon fodder (Palpatine did the same with Dooku). Everyone likes Carver though, he seems so naive that you can't really be mad at him or put him on ignore. Till the day he becomes the only Mod on KMC.

As for h1a8, he isn't running rampant. He is like Yoda, no one understands what he says or tries to tell us...

As for me, you didn't bother giving me some credit... uhuh

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Ok quan is attacked because Carver uses him as cannon fodder (Palpatine did the same with Dooku). Everyone likes Carver though, he seems so naive that you can't really be mad at him or put him on ignore. Till the day he becomes the only Mod on KMC.

As for h1a8, he isn't running rampant. He is like Yoda, no one understands what he says or tries to tell us...

As for me, you didn't bother giving me some credit... uhuh

It's funny how you more or less condemned Carver and Quan - even lightheartedly - and in the same breath just let h1 off with "well, no one gets him so he's not running rampant".

I have no issues with people being pro-DC or pro-Marvel, but don't let people who say obviously outlandish and ridiculous statements get away with saying that kind of crap just because they're "on your side".

If I catch Carv saying crazy crap like how Thor is beyond all Herald Class people, I let him know just how ridiculous he is. After all:

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Carv's support only damns Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's funny how you more or less condemned Carver and Quan - even lightheartedly - and in the same breath just let h1 off with "well, no one gets him so he's not running rampant".

I have no issues with people being pro-DC or pro-Marvel, but don't let people who say obviously outlandish and ridiculous statements get away with saying that kind of crap just because they're "on your side".

If I catch Carv saying crazy crap like how Thor is beyond all Herald Class people, I let him know just how ridiculous he is. After all:

I would never condemn Carver, you get me wrong. ^^

He is a good guy and the Forum would miss something should he ever get banned. Even Quan is needed.

Originally posted by h1a8
The force of unbias debating, objectiveness, and the fact that this forum is stronger towards the Marvel side.

I think that the method with which you debate is the cause of most of the backlash at you. Not which company one person favors over another. You tend to debate power set first, followed by "letter of the law" interpretations of feats, i.e. Thor has more lifting feats then Odin, therefore Thor is the stronger of the two. Zeus (powerset, portrayal) vs Hulk (feats/showings) should've ended that fallacious line of reasoning, yet here we are again.

But I digress. The issues that come into play in these types of forums are often times much more nuanced then any one debate approach would allow for. Which is why its best to combine several approaches. Power set, feats/showings and overall portrayal.

As an example, using feats/showings as the one and only standard tends to favor popular characters with long established books and histories. Power set is very often used as the cheapest debate method imo (Silver Surfer/Superman red sun exploitation), but is also often used to explain away low showings or sometimes used as a kind of "credit" for characters whose relative feats/showings don't always jib with various powers they have displayed on panel. If you go strictly by power sets, a guy like Apocalypse -who has just about every power under the sun- would be all but undefeatable in a forum match. But that's not the case as poor Apoc fans have found out.

Portrayal often is used (but certainly not limited to) to aid characters with brief appearances, flash showings and short histories. Take "The Blue Marvel" for example. Adam has very few appearances, but in the few that he has we can safely say that in terms of strength, durability etc that he is peers with the likes of Thor, Hulk etc. He'd lose in most debates against Thor because it'll often turn into a feat war, but his portrayal makes it so that such a thread is taken seriously in the first place.

So you see, each particular method of debate is flawed by itself. But when used in conjunction they all provide a balance. Perhaps maybe you should try a more balanced approach instead of strictly going with one or another

Originally posted by dmills
I think that the method with which you debate is the cause of most of the backlash at you. Not which company one person favors over another. You tend to debate power set first, followed by "letter of the law" interpretations of feats, i.e. Thor has more lifting feats then Odin, therefore Thor is the stronger of the two. Zeus (powerset, portrayal) vs Hulk (feats/showings) should've ended that fallacious line of reasoning, yet here we are again.

But I digress. The issues that come into play in these types of forums are often times much more nuanced then any one debate approach would allow for. Which is why its best to combine several approaches. Power set, feats/showings and overall portrayal.

As an example, using feats/showings as the one and only standard tends to favor popular characters with long established books and histories. Power set is very often used as the cheapest debate method imo (Silver Surfer/Superman red sun exploitation), but is also often used to explain away low showings or sometimes used as a kind of "credit" for characters whose relative feats/showings don't always jib with various powers they have displayed on panel. If you go strictly by power sets, a guy like Apocalypse -who has just about every power under the sun- would be all but undefeatable in a forum match. But that's not the case as poor Apoc fans have found out.

Portrayal often is used (but certainly not limited to) to aid characters with brief appearances, flash showings and short histories. Take "The Blue Marvel" for example. Adam has very few appearances, but in the few that he has we can safely say that in terms of strength, durability etc that he is peers with the likes of Thor, Hulk etc. He'd lose in most debates against Thor because it'll often turn into a feat war, but his portrayal makes it so that such a thread is taken seriously in the first place.

So you see, each particular method of debate is flawed by itself. But when used in conjunction they all provide a balance. Perhaps maybe you should try a more balanced approach instead of strictly going with one or another

I understand what you are saying but I'm not on the extreme as power sets only. I'm somewhere in the middle (maybe closer to power sets though). In fact, I only use things that a character has SHOWN in a comic. I know Thor is a warrior, Superman doesn't kill and needs to gauge how powerful his opponent is, etc. Thus characters are limited to the things they will do and when they will do them. I know this.

I also know when a character is performing inefficient because of his character vs. because the writer needs him to in order to job to another in order to have a story.

Portrayal is mostly subjective. I don't argue who is stronger based off who has more feats. I argue who is stronger based off who has the BEST feats. Now feats could be anything. They could be obvious portrayals, lifting feats, grappling feats, striking feats, etc. Everyone keep mentioning lifting feats but I'm way past that.

If Odin was ever portrayed to be physically stronger than Thor then I wouldn't argue. But since portrayal is mostly subjective (some are objective and clear) then it's up for debate whether Odin is physically stronger than Thor. I won't confuse being more powerful as being physically stronger.

But know this, many many posters on here very slickly use a characters best feats to debate with. Odin is a prime example, some posters either mention him busting galaxies or are thinking it when they are debating him in a thread.

Also, there is no way to connect a Marvel character with a D.C. character other than NATURAL FEATS. For example, how do we know Superman is stronger than Colossus when they never faced each other? We need feats against nature (lifting, breaking, pulling, etc.) to decide. Marvel on marvel we can use feats as well as portrayals and D.C. on D.C. we can do the same. I then use calculations of the quantifiable feats to determine which character has the greatest feats.

I'm not really D.C. bias. When I started here on KMC I was a Spider-man fan #1. I even argued that he would beat WW. I know, that was stupid. But, I'm really a fan of speed and skill more than anything. I could care less about strength. If any Marvel character had the necessary speed and skill to win then I would pick them without hesistation. I only argue for Superman because I love his speed. Take that away and I would hate his guts (guaranteed fact).

The reason I'm into speed and skill so much is that I've studied Martial arts for many years, played baseball, watched Matrix movies with bullet time, studied both real life and fictional combos that actually support my combo to ko theory. I'm a firm believer that with sufficient speed and skill that one is nigh unbeatable due to the statue principle or slow motion priniciple.

I appreciated your post and you are right for the most part. But a lot of people misunderstand me, mostly due to their own blindness caused by bias or incorrect reasoning.

Lastly, this is how you know a poster is bias towards a certain company. Statistics never lie. If a poster sides with a company over another (besides spite threads) over 90% of the time then clearly they are bias and not objective. For example, The only way Quan or Carv would side with D.C. is if it is Spite, even then Quan is going to argue against D.C. sometimes.

Heh, carver and quan do have there issues ( low balling, overestimation, misinterpretation etc) but it can still be said that they read comics for the most part and in some cases do have vast knowledge on particular characters (quanchi for thanos and Carver for..gladiator?)H1a8 on the other hand seems to lack knowledge of any comic character whether in marvel or DC. Period. A lot of the times he is even willing to contradict the comic itself outrightly asserting that it doesn't matter

Originally posted by h1a8
I understand what you are saying but I'm not on the extreme as power sets only. I'm somewhere in the middle (maybe closer to power sets though). In fact, I only use things that a character has SHOWN in a comic. I know Thor is a warrior, Superman doesn't kill and needs to gauge how powerful his opponent is, etc. Thus characters are limited to the things they will do and when they will do them. I know this.

I also know when a character is performing inefficient because of his character vs. because the writer needs him to in order to job to another in order to have a story.

Portrayal is mostly subjective. I don't argue who is stronger based off who has more feats. I argue who is stronger based off who has the BEST feats. Now feats could be anything. They could be obvious portrayals, lifting feats, grappling feats, striking feats, etc. Everyone keep mentioning lifting feats but I'm way past that.

If Odin was ever portrayed to be physically stronger than Thor then I wouldn't argue. But since portrayal is mostly subjective (some are objective and clear) then it's up for debate whether Odin is physically stronger than Thor. I won't confuse being more powerful as being physically stronger.

But know this, many many posters on here very slickly use a characters best feats to debate with. Odin is a prime example, some posters either mention him busting galaxies or are thinking it when they are debating him in a thread.

Also, there is no way to connect a Marvel character with a D.C. character other than NATURAL FEATS. For example, how do we know Superman is stronger than Colossus when they never faced each other? We need feats against nature (lifting, breaking, pulling, etc.) to decide. Marvel on marvel we can use feats as well as portrayals and D.C. on D.C. we can do the same. I then use calculations of the quantifiable feats to determine which character has the greatest feats.

I'm not really D.C. bias. When I started here on KMC I was a Spider-man fan #1. I even argued that he would beat WW. I know, that was stupid. But, I'm really a fan of speed and skill more than anything. I could care less about strength. If any Marvel character had the necessary speed and skill to win then I would pick them without hesistation. I only argue for Superman because I love his speed. Take that away and I would hate his guts (guaranteed fact).

The reason I'm into speed and skill so much is that I've

Lol you suffer from over studied Martial arts for many years, played baseball, watched Matrix movies with bullet time, studied both real life and fictional combos that actually support my combo to ko theory. I'm a firm believer that with sufficient speed and skill that one is nigh unbeatable due to the statue principle or slow motion priniciple.

I appreciated your post and you are right for the most part. But a lot of people misunderstand me, mostly due to their own blindness caused by bias or incorrect reasoning.

Lastly, this is how you know a poster is bias towards a certain company. Statistics never lie. If a poster sides with a company over another (besides spite threads) over 90% of the time then clearly they are bias and not objective. For example, The only way Quan or Carv would side with D.C. is if it is Spite, even then Quan is going to argue against D.C. sometimes.

I specifically want to address the Odin/skyfather strength point that you raised. If I'm not mistaken you differentiated between strength and power. I would argue that once you're playing at that level, that the two are no longer mutually exclusive. Odin, Zeus et al can channel their respective energies anyway they see fit, not the least of which is brute strength.

Now I will concede that they are often shown as blasting things, but as someone pointed out in another thread, when they decide to engage in h2h its usually very impressive. So knowing that this is within the powerset of Trans levelers, Skyfathers etc, I'm never surprised when they amp up and whoop butt in a physical confrontation, and I likewise wasn't shocked when Zeus casually beat the Hulk to near death. Banner was swinging well above his weight class in that particular confrontation and if they fought in the next issue with Banner doing the Worldbreaker routine I'd expect the results would remain pretty much the same.

As for the rest, I've no interest in who leans towards what company. What matters to me is that when people debate a topic that they at least have a working knowledge of the characters involved. Quan, for all his tomfoolery, has a pretty good grasp of the goings on in the dcu. Carver too for that matter. Carvers problem is that he has a tendency to embellish i.e.

Originally posted by carver9
None fight.

Bi beast and Wendigo was amped to skyfather levels and they couldn't even budge Hulk with their punches.

That aside, I couldn't care less about who reps whatever company so long as they know what the hell they're talking about.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Heh, carver and quan do have there issues ( low balling, overestimation, misinterpretation etc) but it can still be said that they read comics for the most part and in some cases do have vast knowledge on particular characters (quanchi for thanos and Carver for..gladiator?)H1a8 on the other hand seems to lack knowledge of any comic character whether in marvel or DC. Period. A lot of the times he is even willing to contradict the comic itself outrightly asserting that it doesn't matter

He seems to favor debating powersets, so its not surprising that he comes off that way.

Originally posted by dmills
I think that the method with which you debate is the cause of most of the backlash at you. Not which company one person favors over another. You tend to debate power set first, followed by "letter of the law" interpretations of feats, i.e. Thor has more lifting feats then Odin, therefore Thor is the stronger of the two. Zeus (powerset, portrayal) vs Hulk (feats/showings) should've ended that fallacious line of reasoning, yet here we are again.

But I digress. The issues that come into play in these types of forums are often times much more nuanced then any one debate approach would allow for. Which is why its best to combine several approaches. Power set, feats/showings and overall portrayal.

As an example, using feats/showings as the one and only standard tends to favor popular characters with long established books and histories. Power set is very often used as the cheapest debate method imo (Silver Surfer/Superman red sun exploitation), but is also often used to explain away low showings or sometimes used as a kind of "credit" for characters whose relative feats/showings don't always jib with various powers they have displayed on panel. If you go strictly by power sets, a guy like Apocalypse -who has just about every power under the sun- would be all but undefeatable in a forum match. But that's not the case as poor Apoc fans have found out.

Portrayal often is used (but certainly not limited to) to aid characters with brief appearances, flash showings and short histories. Take "The Blue Marvel" for example. Adam has very few appearances, but in the few that he has we can safely say that in terms of strength, durability etc that he is peers with the likes of Thor, Hulk etc. He'd lose in most debates against Thor because it'll often turn into a feat war, but his portrayal makes it so that such a thread is taken seriously in the first place.

So you see, each particular method of debate is flawed by itself. But when used in conjunction they all provide a balance. Perhaps maybe you should try a more balanced approach instead of strictly going with one or another

Perfect way of putting it but with this post, H1 really isn't the only one guilty of it (I'm guilty sometimes as well).

H1 problem is, he apply real world logic to a comic book. Yes, that is ok SOMETIMES but he use it to decide the final factor of a battle. I like H1...he rarely if ever bash anyone and with all of the stuff that comes his way, I can't believe it but he needs to stop calling PIS for everything and he also need to get a better understanding of the CHARACTER instead of their powerset.

By the way dmills... I was just playing about my comment regarding Bi-Beast and Wendigo...lol.

When I get pissed at someone I am debating against, I just type the first thing that comes to my mind. Bad habit.

Originally posted by h1a8
I understand what you are saying but I'm not on the extreme as power sets only. I'm somewhere in the middle (maybe closer to power sets though). In fact, I only use things that a character has SHOWN in a comic. I know Thor is a warrior, Superman doesn't kill and needs to gauge how powerful his opponent is, etc. Thus characters are limited to the things they will do and when they will do them. I know this.

I also know when a character is performing inefficient because of his character vs. because the writer needs him to in order to job to another in order to have a story.

Portrayal is mostly subjective. I don't argue who is stronger based off who has more feats. I argue who is stronger based off who has the BEST feats. Now feats could be anything. They could be obvious portrayals, lifting feats, grappling feats, striking feats, etc. Everyone keep mentioning lifting feats but I'm way past that.

If Odin was ever portrayed to be physically stronger than Thor then I wouldn't argue. But since portrayal is mostly subjective (some are objective and clear) then it's up for debate whether Odin is physically stronger than Thor. I won't confuse being more powerful as being physically stronger.

But know this, many many posters on here very slickly use a characters best feats to debate with. Odin is a prime example, some posters either mention him busting galaxies or are thinking it when they are debating him in a thread.

Also, there is no way to connect a Marvel character with a D.C. character other than NATURAL FEATS. For example, how do we know Superman is stronger than Colossus when they never faced each other? We need feats against nature (lifting, breaking, pulling, etc.) to decide. Marvel on marvel we can use feats as well as portrayals and D.C. on D.C. we can do the same. I then use calculations of the quantifiable feats to determine which character has the greatest feats.

I'm not really D.C. bias. When I started here on KMC I was a Spider-man fan #1. I even argued that he would beat WW. I know, that was stupid. But, I'm really a fan of speed and skill more than anything. I could care less about strength. If any Marvel character had the necessary speed and skill to win then I would pick them without hesistation. I only argue for Superman because I love his speed. Take that away and I would hate his guts (guaranteed fact).

The reason I'm into speed and skill so much is that I've studied Martial arts for many years, played baseball, watched Matrix movies with bullet time, studied both real life and fictional combos that actually support my combo to ko theory. I'm a firm believer that with sufficient speed and skill that one is nigh unbeatable due to the statue principle or slow motion priniciple.

I appreciated your post and you are right for the most part. But a lot of people misunderstand me, mostly due to their own blindness caused by bias or incorrect reasoning.

Lastly, this is how you know a poster is bias towards a certain company. Statistics never lie. If a poster sides with a company over another (besides spite threads) over 90% of the time then clearly they are bias and not objective. For example, The only way Quan or Carv would side with D.C. is if it is Spite, even then Quan is going to argue against D.C. sometimes.

So why did you go to the Thor vs Superman thread saying that Superman would beat Thor 10/10 via speed and vibrating? Why did you say that Thor will not land a single lick? That's basing thing off of powerset only?

Originally posted by carver9
So why did you go to the Thor vs Superman thread saying that Superman would beat Thor 10/10 via speed and vibrating? Why did you say that Thor will not land a single lick? That's basing thing off of powerset only?

I see you have a good memory. Supes would definitely take a lick or two from Thor to gauge his dangerousness. But if it gets too serious then Superman turns up the speed and finishes him.

Why do you tend to lowball opposite characters and highball your characters?

I have no clue why people even bother with H1 anymore in normal threads. His hypocritical, biased but worst of all, he sets his own rules and decides when they apply and when they don't. I can handle the first two but it's the third that makes him a real pain.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Odin was ever portrayed to be physically stronger than Thor then I wouldn't argue. But since portrayal is mostly subjective (some are objective and clear) then it's up for debate whether Odin is physically stronger than Thor. I won't confuse being more powerful as being physically stronger.


Battlezone, Odin vs. Thor, who's stronger, you up for it?

Originally posted by carver9
Perfect way of putting it but with this post, H1 really isn't the only one guilty of it (I'm guilty sometimes as well

I was guilty of arguing power sets when I first came to kmc. Hell I still do from time to time when it suits my argument

Originally posted by h1a8
I see you have a good memory. Supes would definitely take a lick or two from Thor to gauge his dangerousness. But if it gets too serious then Superman turns up the speed and finishes him.

Why do you tend to lowball opposite characters and highball your characters?

I use what happens on panel. I don't ignore fts and use PIS as a cop out. In my opinion, if it happened, it happened. When someone bring up a low showing involving Gladiator or Hulk, I explain the showing and come back with either a norm or high showing.

A lot of people can't do this... I guess that is why I have a hard time debating against Quan because he always have a comback, no matter what you bring up (and he also doesn't believe in PIS).

Originally posted by dmills
I was guilty of arguing power sets when I first came to kmc. Hell I still do from time to time when it suits my argument

Stargate vs CIS...

Originally posted by carver9
Stargate vs CIS...

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1313734349851.jpg

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1313735096-picsay.jpg

Stargate wins

This is how you're supposed to debate on the forum:

Originally posted by -Pr-
Clarification of CIS

Ok people, here are the finalised rules as regards PIS, CIS, and everything related to it.

PIS is, as always, off unless the thread starter says it's ON.

CIS, as was said before, is now a more diverse term, but is not as vague as before.

While CIS still exists in the form of characters like Rhino (who are just too stupid to know better), it also exists in one other form.

This is known as Character Inhibited Power. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.

As Bada said:

"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."

What this means is that people like the Surfer and Superman and so on will not use the full extent of their powers if it will endanger civilians. It doesn't, though, mean they will fight like idiots. The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform. This is the crux of the rules we've come up with. It doesn't come down to powers, it comes down to the man or woman that weilds them.

In accordance with this, several factors come in to play in debates:

The Opponent, Basic Information, the Arena and the Character's Personality and Experience

Those four are key.

Example:

If Martian Manhunter fights say, Juggernaut.

MM doesn't personally know Juggernaut (Opponent). So he has Basic Information. This is categorised as being what the general public would know about the Juggernaut. It goes by averages. If that average man or woman on the street knows that Juggernaut is super strong, then MM knows. The average man or woman doesn't know, however, that the Juggernaut is weak against psionics. J'onn would approach with caution, not knowing whether Juggernaut was in his weight class, and not knowing the full extent of the man's powers.

However. If Martian Manhunter went up against Amazo, he would know to go for broke right at the start, because he KNOWS Amazo (Personality and Experience). He will use his speed, his strength, his shapeshifting. This is because if he knows what it takes to bring down Amazo, or he believes his standard attacks won't work. If J'onn was fighting Juggernaut, there would come a point when he would realise that normal attacks won't work, and would up his game. Any character that doesn't suffer from Rhino-esque stupidity is capable of this. Even with this, though, the Arena comes in to play. If civilians are in danger, J'onn won't shapeshift in to a fire breathing dragon. Juggernaut on the other hand doesn't care, so wouldn't hesitate to toss cars and trucks full of civilians at the Martian.

Examples:

Thor knows he can't out-brawl Hulk, so uses exotic powers sooner than he would against the likes of Superman, as Superman is an unknown to him.

Superman would go all out against Doomsday or Despero because he knows how powerful they are. Against the Hulk, he's going to take a few punches before realising he'll have to use something rather than slugging it out. He won't bathe the street in heat vision either, because there are civilians nearby.

It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.

Or at least something close to it.

Originally posted by h1a8
If you punch me in the face and I immediately say, "why lue doot that?" then would you think I was slightly dazed? yes. that didnt happen on the comic.

If h1a8 doesn't like it.. he screams PIS.. even though that is just how a character is portrayed overall. It's like the Patriots... are they a kick ass team every Sunday and crush people by 25 points? No, they have off weeks or just run into a stronger more prepared team that day. The same thing happens for comic book characters as in real life. Sometimes they have high feats.. sometimes low feats... neither count more than the other.. they ALL count as the overall perspective for the character in question. Like Rage says.. H1a8 just dismisses stuff he doesn't like or what fits into his vision of the character... That should be grounds for a ban but some how the mods must like him a lot.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
If h1a8 doesn't like it.. he screams PIS.. even though that is just how a character is portrayed overall. It's like the Patriots... are they a kick ass team every Sunday and crush people by 25 points? No, they have off weeks or just run into a stronger more prepared team that day. The same thing happens for comic book characters as in real life. Sometimes they have high feats.. sometimes low feats... neither count more than the other.. they ALL count as the overall perspective for the character in question. Like Rage says.. H1a8 just dismisses stuff he doesn't like or what fits into his vision of the character... That should be grounds for a ban but some how the mods must like him a lot.

If things like that were grounds for a ban, a lot more people would be there alongside him.

I'd be careful about making judgements about the mods though; it's never really appreciated, and there is generally a differing point of view when it comes to certain posters.

Leave H1 alone... everyone on here has issues even the mods (especially Pr , just playing ). He does need to calm down a bit sometimes but again, he rarely bash people and its YOU ALL that choose to debate against him. If he is saying something that you dislike, ignore him. If the mods were to listen to what anyone on here has to say about the members of KMC, there really wouldnt be anyone here except a handful of people.

Like I said before, H1 likes attention, if you are feeding it to him, you are going to continue getting the results that you are getting.

Shut up, Carver.

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/389198g6g60.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Shut up, Carver.



I'm not going to lie Jake, I feel the same way you all feel. I dont even know why I typed all of that. F*** H1.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If things like that were grounds for a ban, a lot more people would be there alongside him.

I'd be careful about making judgements about the mods though; it's never really appreciated, and there is generally a differing point of view when it comes to certain posters.

You took what I said personally and it shouldn't have been taken that way. I have never talked crap about you or any of the mods on this site, in fact, I've been very complimentary towards them. What I was saying is this... If h1a8 can be even worse than Quan and other posters who have gotten banned. H1a8 blatantly ignores how characters are portrrayed and instead wants to use his own version of the character. He'll say Glads will beat Odin in a fist fight.. which has NO backing in comics... If superman gets beat he'll say it's PIS because he didn't fight how h1a8 would have him fight. All things against the rules.. So since we are on the subject.. why has he NEVER got a ban or warning when he does this on a daily basis?

Originally posted by carver9


I'm not going to lie Jake, I feel the same way you all feel. I dont even know why I typed all of that. F*** H1.

Good...let the hate flow through you.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8ouvkxcXt1qzqh3y.jpg

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You took what I said personally and it shouldn't have been taken that way. I have never talked crap about you or any of the mods on this site, in fact, I've been very complimentary towards them. What I was saying is this... If h1a8 can be even worse than Quan and other posters who have gotten banned. H1a8 blatantly ignores how characters are portrrayed and instead wants to use his own version of the character. He'll say Glads will beat Odin in a fist fight.. which has NO backing in comics... If superman gets beat he'll say it's PIS because he didn't fight how h1a8 would have him fight. All things against the rules.. So since we are on the subject.. why has he NEVER got a ban or warning when he does this on a daily basis?

it's hard not to wonder whether you're having a go at the mods when you post things like this:

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
some how the mods must like him a lot.

As far as why he hasn't been banned yet, Bada and I do have our reasons. Bada and I have a list as long as our arms of who we might ban, but it comes down to several things.

And the truth is, (without naming names), there are people on this board that are considered more disruptive by Bada and I than H1A8. If it's that much of a problem for you to see his posts, then as long as he's registered here, the best thing you can do is to put him on ignore.

As for everyone else: The personal attacks stop now. That's me asking nicely.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's hard not to wonder whether you're having a go at the mods when you post things like this:



As far as why he hasn't been banned yet, Bada and I do have our reasons. Bada and I have a list as long as our arms of who we might ban, but it comes down to several things.

And the truth is, (without naming names), there are people on this board that are considered more disruptive by Bada and I than H1A8. If it's that much of a problem for you to see his posts, then as long as he's registered here, the best thing you can do is to put him on ignore.

As for everyone else: The personal attacks stop now. That's me asking nicely.

I'm glad I'm not included on that list. Thanks bud.

Originally posted by -Pr-
As for everyone else: The personal attacks stop now. That's me asking nicely.

So be it...Pr

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__Ae7RSqFrvw/Sk6IiHqClUI/AAAAAAAAOqI/AfofAwp4eEc/s400/palpatine004.jpg