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Before declaring this spite, there's a catch:

PIS, CIS, and Spiderman vs Firelord feats apply for Punisher and Wolverine.

But you need to provide feats to prove it.. So, if you have any feats of either CIS, PIS, or Spiderman vs Firelord that prove Punisher and Wolverine can beat these two, try and make a case.

Wolverine vs Thor was also there. Terra-Man with Kryponite Bullets is also nothing new. Give Punishe K-Nite bullets and Pis, while giving Wolverine PIS and you have a massacre .

You mean the fight where once Thor got mad, Wolverine lost in like two moves?

Team 2 every time. The downside to being the premier houses are bad/PIS ridden showings but fortunately, it also comes with great showings that balance out the poor ones.

With PIS Punisher knows no boundries

http://spiderfan.org/comics/images/marvel_one_shots/punisher_kills.jpg

Even Current Superman and Thor at their lowest are still > this team by a fair bit. They win.

Is this a straight up fight or a scenario?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Is this a straight up fight or a scenario?

I think that was left open...

In a scenario I don't see why Punisher and Wolverine PIS induced shouldn't be able to win this. Considering Superman and Thor low showings and what Punisher and Wolverine pulled by PIS/jobbing opponents they can take them.

Seriously there's a reason why we take out these PIS moments. Plot does what it wants and if it wants Wolv and Pun to win they will.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
In a scenario I don't see why Punisher and Wolverine PIS induced shouldn't be able to win this. Considering Superman and Thor low showings and what Punisher and Wolverine pulled by PIS/jobbing opponents they can take them.

Seriously there's a reason why we take out these PIS moments. Plot does what it wants and if it wants Wolv and Pun to win they will.

What kind of low showings do you think both men have that would enable Logan and Castle to win?

Originally posted by -Pr-
What kind of low showings do you think both men have that would enable Logan and Castle to win? Wolverine's fight against Thor shows that he can sneek up on him, Batman was in the same room as Supes and other heroes noone was able to see or hear him (<- I would leave it to hardcore Wolverine fans to support his stealth skills) Punisher was able to get away from Sentry in Dark Reign who at least in this issue seemed like an exact Supes copy (he even had HV AFAIK only in that issue) Punisher also seems to be able to get access to pretty much everything he needs (Dark Reign arsenal) I think in a neutral or mixed universe where k-nite exists he could grab some maybe that liquid shit Gog used in his spear to inject it into Superman and weaken him enough that an ordinary Uiz was able to shoot through him. Stuff like that.

Don't get me wrong I only see a possibility for Punisher and Wolverine with PIS and low showings.

In a straight up fight I couldn't lowball Supes and Thor and wank up Punisher and Wolverine enough to get them a win but in a scenario with PIS I don't see why they shouldn't have a good shot.

I don't get it. Are you using only the low showings of Thor/Superman and the high showings of Wolverine/Punisher?

That's not what the OP said as far as I can tell. With the arguments you're making and the scenario(s) you've listed, you might as well just say they can win if the writer needs them to and leave it at that.

^ pretty much, silly thread I think.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't get it. Are you using only the low showings of Thor/Superman and the high showings of Wolverine/Punisher?

That's not what the OP said as far as I can tell. With the arguments you're making and the scenario(s) you've listed, you might as well just say they can win if the writer needs them to and leave it at that. I don't see any real thread starting with Supes at base levels honestly, Supes detected people by heartbeats and even recognized them by such unless we lowball there's nothing to argue and lowballing is usually using PIS showings. Like Spider-man when Punisher locked him up in a prison cell or something to get time to run away, while Spider-mans strength easily allowes him to rip the door out or dent the bars which he has done both before.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I don't see any real thread starting with Supes at base levels honestly, Supes detected people by heartbeats and even recognized them by such unless we lowball there's nothing to argue and lowballing is usually using PIS showings. Like Spider-man when Punisher locked him up in a prison cell or something to get time to run away, while Spider-mans strength easily allowes him to rip the door out or dent the bars which he has done both before.

....Okay?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Wolverine's fight against Thor shows that he can sneek up on him, Batman was in the same room as Supes and other heroes noone was able to see or hear him (<- I would leave it to hardcore Wolverine fans to support his stealth skills) Punisher was able to get away from Sentry in Dark Reign who at least in this issue seemed like an exact Supes copy (he even had HV AFAIK only in that issue) Punisher also seems to be able to get access to pretty much everything he needs (Dark Reign arsenal) I think in a neutral or mixed universe where k-nite exists he could grab some maybe that liquid shit Gog used in his spear to inject it into Superman and weaken him enough that an ordinary Uiz was able to shoot through him. Stuff like that.

Don't get me wrong I only see a possibility for Punisher and Wolverine with PIS and low showings.

In a straight up fight I couldn't lowball Supes and Thor and wank up Punisher and Wolverine enough to get them a win but in a scenario with PIS I don't see why they shouldn't have a good shot.

The Wolverine vs Thor fight also shows that Thor can basically two shot Wolverine any time he wants.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
....Okay? Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
you might as well just say they can win if the writer needs them to and leave it at that. and taht's actually what I have done: Originally posted by Parmaniac
Seriously there's a reason why we take out these PIS moments. Plot does what it wants and if it wants Wolv and Pun to win they will. Originally posted by cdtm
PIS, CIS, and Spiderman vs Firelord feats apply for Punisher and Wolverine.

But you need to provide feats to prove it.. That's all I did and that's what the OP was asking for. If we don't use low only we have PIS/low vs. legit feats, see the dilemma?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I Like Spider-man when Punisher locked him up in a prison cell or something to get time to run away, while Spider-mans strength easily allowes him to rip the door out or dent the bars which he has done both before.

those probably weren't standard metal bars, thats CIS I guess.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
and taht's actually what I have done: That's all I did and that's what the OP was asking for. If we don't use low only we have PIS/low vs. legit feats, see the dilemma?

Okay?

And the OP didn't specify that we have to use only low showings for Superman/Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay?

And the OP didn't specify that we have to use only low showings for Superman/Thor. So you don't see the prob there fine.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay?

And the OP didn't specify that we have to use only low showings for Superman/Thor.

Yeah. It's more a "if you had to make punisher and logan beat the other two, how would you do it?" thing, at least, i thought so.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah. It's more a "if you had to make punisher and logan beat the other two, how would you do it?" thing, at least, i thought so. And I listed examples.

To make this easy, if I would start using low showings and both of you start using legit consistant showings, these consistant showings will simply wash away the low one's which makes the entire argument void.

Example:
Me: Batman sneaked up on Superman before.
You: Superman detected Batman by his haertbeat before and he also has X-Ray vision.

Ironically this would turn into a normal vs. thread. Which Wolv and Pun can't win.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
And I listed examples.

To make this easy, if I would start using low showings and both of you start using legit consistant showings, these consistant showings will simply wash away the low one's which makes the entire argument void.

Example:
Me: Batman sneaked up on Superman before.
You: Superman detected Batman by his haertbeat before and he also has X-Ray vision.

Ironically this would turn into a normal vs. thread. Which Wolv and Pun can't win.

Not sure about now but it was specifically stated that Batman sneaking up on Superman wasn't PIS because hes done it lots of times.

Batman has tech to help him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Batman has tech to help him.

I didn't raise that issue at all.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Wolverine vs Thor fight also shows that Thor can basically two shot Wolverine any time he wants.

lol

No it didn't. It was all Thor could do to break Wolverine's mind control, his attacks didn't even phase Logan.

Superman and Thor win 10/10. Wolverine can contend with Thor in a pure melee match, but that's it. With full powers at their disposal Superman or Thor can solo this in no time flat with out being hit or breaking a sweat.

And people say that you don't have a sense of humor.

I remember the time Skrank claimed Thor was giving it all his got in those last two attacks. snicker

Originally posted by Silent Master
And people say that you don't have a sense of humor.

Did you read the comic? He broke Wolverine's mind control so the fight ended. That isn't Thor showing he can "two shot" Wolverine, that is Thor showing he got lucky and snapped Wolverine free of his mind control. Wolverine was completely unphased and had a huge smile on his face. That's what happened. Did you think the fight should have continued with Wolverine free from outside influence?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I remember the time Skrank claimed Thor was giving it all his got in those last two attacks. snicker

Because he was, Thor said so himself.

His history shows otherwise.

Originally posted by Silent Master
His history shows otherwise.

Only if you ignore Wolverines.

Only if you ignore Thor's.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because he was, Thor said so himself.

I'd like to start of by saying that if the writer truly considered that to be the limit of Thor's power, then the fight would lose all credibility. Wolverine was floored for a few moments and otherwise unhurt. I'll be honest though, I wouldn't be surprised if you think that's what should happen.

Thor screaming "Enough." does not translate into "I'm going all out." as Amadeus Cho would point out. Even an angry Thor is noticeably less powerful than all out Thor depending on the situation. He holds back instinctively and has even had trouble cutting loose because he holds himself in check so much. It certainly doesn't help your stance that immediately afterward, Thor asked if Wolverine was unhurt.

I'd also like to point out that Thor has a long history of holding back against (a)Mortals, (b)Allies, and (c)Mind Controlled Allies.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Wolverine's fight against Thor shows that he can sneek up on him, Batman was in the same room as Supes and other heroes noone was able to see or hear him (<- I would leave it to hardcore Wolverine fans to support his stealth skills) Punisher was able to get away from Sentry in Dark Reign who at least in this issue seemed like an exact Supes copy (he even had HV AFAIK only in that issue) Punisher also seems to be able to get access to pretty much everything he needs (Dark Reign arsenal) I think in a neutral or mixed universe where k-nite exists he could grab some maybe that liquid shit Gog used in his spear to inject it into Superman and weaken him enough that an ordinary Uiz was able to shoot through him. Stuff like that.

Don't get me wrong I only see a possibility for Punisher and Wolverine with PIS and low showings.

In a straight up fight I couldn't lowball Supes and Thor and wank up Punisher and Wolverine enough to get them a win but in a scenario with PIS I don't see why they shouldn't have a good shot.

Because according to the OP; PIS/CIS and SMvsFL feats apply to the Wolverine/Punisher team....it doesn't say that PIS/CIS etc can be used to low-ballSuperman and Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd like to start of by saying that if the writer truly considered that to be the limit of Thor's power, then the fight would lose all credibility. Wolverine was floored for a few moments and otherwise unhurt. I'll be honest though, I wouldn't be surprised if you think that's what should happen.

Thor screaming "Enough." does not translate into "I'm going all out." as Amadeus Cho would point out. Even an angry Thor is noticeably less powerful than all out Thor depending on the situation. He holds back instinctively and has even had trouble cutting loose because he holds himself in check so much. It certainly doesn't help your stance that immediately afterward, Thor asked if Wolverine was unhurt.

I'd also like to point out that Thor has a long history of holding back against (a)Mortals, (b)Allies, and (c)Mind Controlled Allies.

If that fight played out exactly the same, with the same dialogue, only it was Hulk instead of Wolverine, would you still believe that Thor was nerfed or holding back because he couldn't ko Banner with a few attacks? The reality is there is nothing inherently week or inconstant with Thor's power level as depicted in that fight, the only thing you can find fault with is that Wolverine wasn't one shotted. Well guess what? That is Wolverine. Thor's self stated fiercest blows failing to do significant damage to Wolverine is not Thor being under written, it's Wolverine being written, period. That's what Logan does, he fights top tier bricks, and he takes there best shots and he keeps coming. You expecting something different is on you SEVERELY underestimating Wolverine's damage soak, not the writer underestimating Thor's damage capacity.

Actually, if you look at Thor's history...the attacks he used against Wolverine didn't seem very impressive.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay?

And the OP didn't specify that we have to use only low showings for Superman/Thor.

Yeah, Superman and Thor are to be treated like normal...

Which means stuff like getting KOed by a brick or strangled by a snake don't apply to them...

Originally posted by Silent Master
Because according to the OP; PIS/CIS and SMvsFL feats apply to the Wolverine/Punisher team....it doesn't say that PIS/CIS etc can be used to low-ballSuperman and Thor.

Exactly.

It's a difference between saying "Superman got punched by Batman, so Wolverine can hit him" vs arguing that Wolverine hit Quicksilver in super speed mode, so he can hit Superman...

Originally posted by Silent Master
Actually, if you look at Thor's history...the attacks he used against Wolverine didn't seem very impressive.

Why? Because there wasn't much incidental damage? Thor has had multi-page fights with the Hulk, and done less damage to the surrounding area, and he barely destroy a castle wall when fighting Doomstroyer. Was he holding back in those instances because the percussive force of his attacks didn't level the horizon and sink the west cost? He said he was going all out, he was going all out. There is nothing about failing to ko Wolverine in and off itself that suggests Thor must have been underwritten, because that is just how Wolverine himself is written.

Where was Thor stated to be going all out?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Why? Because there wasn't much incidental damage? Thor has had multi-page fights with the Hulk, and done less damage to the surrounding area, and he barely destroy a castle wall when fighting Doomstroyer. Was he holding back in those instances because the percussive force of his attacks didn't level the horizon and sink the west cost? He said he was going all out, he was going all out. There is nothing about failing to ko Wolverine in and off itself that suggests Thor must have been underwritten, because that is just how Wolverine himself is written. Thor was holding back though (Wolverine fight)

When the fight got serious and he used more than just his hammer to hit Wolverine and went God of Thunder on him Wolverine found himself face first in the ground.

You can argue the H2H outcome but Thor would absolutely demolish Wolverine and a fight where he uses his powers.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where was Thor stated to be going all out?

He said he was using his fiercest blows, ie he wasn't pulling his punches.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Thor was holding back though (Wolverine fight)

When the fight got serious and he used more than just his hammer to hit Wolverine and went God of Thunder on him Wolverine found himself face first in the ground.

You can argue the H2H outcome but Thor would absolutely demolish Wolverine and a fight where he uses his powers.

Which is why I said:

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Superman and Thor win 10/10. Wolverine can contend with Thor in a pure melee match, but that's it. With full powers at their disposal Superman or Thor can solo this in no time flat with out being hit or breaking a sweat.

.

Imo it's pandering. Like every time Superman says "I've never been hit that hard before/They hit as hard as _______".

Grain of salt, imo.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What do you think it means? lol

I know it doesn't mean most powerful, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I know it doesn't mean most powerful, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Then you don't have a very strong grasp of the English language. Let me guess, American Public School system?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Let me guess, American Public School system? Harsh but funny

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Then you don't have a very strong grasp of the English language. Let me guess, American Public School system?

Again, fell free to prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, fell free to prove me wrong.

Look up the definition of the word "fierce," then look at synonyms of the word. Mission accomplished? Knowing you, I doubt it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Look up the definition of the word "fierce," then look at synonyms of the word. Mission accomplished? Knowing you, I doubt it. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fierce

Definition of FIERCE
1
a : violently hostile or aggressive in temperament b : given to fighting or killing : pugnacious
2
a : marked by unrestrained zeal or vehemence <a fierce argument> b : extremely vexatious, disappointing, or intense <fierce pain>
3
: furiously active or determined <make a fierce effort>
4
: wild or menacing in appearance


Related to FIERCE
Synonyms: fell, ferocious, grim, savage, vicious


Powerful doesn't appear to be a Synonym for fierce. would you care to try again?