Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

full nova force rider

is the full confidence myth on?

that myth has been debunked a few times.

unless someone can mess with him mentally he won't be losing confidence in himself

so lemme get this straight, its board concensus that Glads has never lost confidence unless it was a mental assault?

He lost confidence vs Cannonball and he has no mental powers.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1314227385729-picsay-1.jpg

Originally posted by golem370
He lost confidence vs Cannonball and he has no mental powers.

It's been established/confirmed in War of Kings that a Strontian's powers are psionically fueled.

Richie does the same thing he did to Xenith...

Unless it's been stated or directly shown that his confidence has been altered or diminished, Gladiator's fully confident by default.

I say Gladiator 5,5 / 10

Nova 6-7/10

Nova, 7-8/10. Doesn't have Kallark's strength, but he more than makes up for it with versatility.

Gladiator 8 or 9/10.

Carver, ignore this post...








Gladiator still has a significant edge, feat-wise. This may change in the near future, but for now, I'd say Gladiator 7-8/10.

Originally posted by Simbon
Carver, ignore this post...








Gladiator still has a significant edge, feat-wise. This may change in the near future, but for now, I'd say Gladiator 7-8/10.

I'm not ignoring it. Gladiator is a beast.

Gladiator should win

Glads wins but this is a decent fight.

If he had full nova force he would be as powerful as Supernova right? If so Richard wins because Supernova was hold his own against Thor Wonder Man Firelord Human Torch Quasar and others.

This is prolly going to be the last time I respond to yet another Glads/Nova thread. On second thought I'll just bookmark this so that I can cut and paste this response when this inevitably comes up again.

A significantly less powerful Nova fought Glads to a double tko before. And it was only a double KO then because Nova was drained from the discharge for plot reasons.

Currently Rider is significantly more powerful and more skilled with his power set as well. Glads is the same guy that he was when they fought 18 years ago. He punches things really hard and/or blasts things with heat vision, neither of which present a significant obstacle for Nova currently. So unless Glads has some new abilities that I don't know about I see no logical reason why the outcome of a fight between the two currently would result in anything other then a win for Nova.

Who's faster in CQC feats?

I trust Dmills in his judgement, he has read more Nova than most, and Kallark has been a serious underdog until his more recent showings. So Nova wins for the majority in my book.

Originally posted by golem370
If he had full nova force he would be as powerful as Supernova right? If so Richard wins because Supernova was hold his own against Thor Wonder Man Firelord Human Torch Quasar and others.

It's a little more complicated then that. See that little ball of energy that Richard is making a mad dash for in the scan?

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1314049235761.jpg

That's the Nova force matrix. Essentially its just a conduit that harnesses vacuum energy from the universe, hence the whole "fundamental force of the universe limitless energy" hyperbole. Think of Richard's body as a bathtub with a pipe that is directly connected to the ocean, and the nova force matrix as the ocean. Richard usually only has the tub about 60-70% full, but can turn the knob and fill it up with more water as necessary.

Supernova is what happens when you leave the water running, the tub overflows and the water just runs everywhere. Richard has a modern system in place that siphons off the water and prevents it from overflowing in the first place.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Who's faster in CQC feats?

Feat wise I'd they clock about even. But Glads has the edge in the "he was moving his hands a gagillion times per second" descriptive hyperbole variety. So it depends on what your cup of tea is I suppose.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Who's faster in CQC feats?


should be about the same..

Originally posted by dmills
This is prolly going to be the last time I respond to yet another Glads/Nova thread. On second thought I'll just bookmark this so that I can cut and paste this response when this inevitably comes up again.

A significantly less powerful Nova fought Glads to a double tko before. And it was only a double KO then because Nova was drained from the discharge for plot reasons.

Currently Rider is significantly more powerful and more skilled with his power set as well. Glads is the same guy that he was when they fought 18 years ago. He punches things really hard and/or blasts things with heat vision, neither of which present a significant obstacle for Nova currently. So unless Glads has some new abilities that I don't know about I see no logical reason why the outcome of a fight between the two currently would result in anything other then a win for Nova.

Anybody that seen that fight can tell that Glads was holding back. Nova even admitted that Glads was out of his league. Nova couldnt even damage him until he absorbed his powers and sent it back to him a hundred folds. Hell, the difference in power was so significant that Nova did a full charge/blitz at Gladiator resulting in him bouncing off of Glads chest like he was a piece of paper.

Gladiator stood over Nova that was stunned TWICE in that fight only to mock him.

By the way, it didn't end in a double tko, Nova was knocked the hell out.

Gladiator stomps but Nova does good. Gladiator ran through a crew of Nova members without breaking a sweat...hell, he split one in half. Nova had trouble with Gladiator cousin and had to resort to dampening her powers because she was too strong.

Originally posted by carver9
Anybody that seen that fight can tell that Glads was holding back. Nova even admitted that Glads was out of his league. Nova couldnt even damage him until he absorbed his powers and sent it back to him a hundred folds. Hell, the difference in power was so significant that Nova did a full charge/blitz at Gladiator resulting in him bouncing off of Glads chest like he was a piece of paper.

Gladiator stood over Nova that was stunned TWICE in that fight only to mock him.

By the way, it didn't end in a double tko, Nova was knocked the hell out.

Gladiator stomps but Nova does good. Gladiator ran through a crew of Nova members without breaking a sweat...hell, he split one in half. Nova had trouble with Gladiator cousin and had to resort to dampening her powers because she was too strong.



are u referencing a non nova prime Nova on that fighting gladiator bit?
sigh...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


are u referencing a non nova prime Nova on that fighting gladiator bit?
sigh...

I'm not using that as evidence that Prime would lose against Glads...I'm just pointing out hat bringing up that fight has no evidense of the outcome of this fight.

Gladiator did state that he was only testing Nova, that being said....Where do you get the "hundred folds" part from, I don't recall that being stated in the book.

Also Rich might have started the fight believing Glads was out of his league, but IIRC at the end they had Rich state that he could handle operating at that level, he then punched Glads, which I believe knocked him down.

All that being said, Glads would have still won the vast majority of fights against that version of Nova.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not using that as evidence that Prime would lose against Glads...I'm just pointing out hat bringing up that fight has no evidense of the outcome of this fight.


and yet you reference an owning of Nova *recruits* by Gladz...
some evidence you have there.

Nova Prime full potential ftw 7-8/10.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
and yet you reference an owning of Nova *recruits* by Gladz...
some evidence you have there.



My bad. I can do better. Gladiator cousin was ripping through Nova and tanking his attacks as well. Nova was hinting around her being stronger and possibly more durable. He then pulls out a trick that immobilize her powers. This trick will not work on Gladiator, wo how will Nova beat him?

Originally posted by carver9
My bad. I can do better. Gladiator cousin was ripping through Nova and tanking his attacks as well. Nova was hinting around her being stronger and possibly more durable. He then pulls out a trick that immobilize her powers. This trick will not work on Gladiator, wo how will Nova beat him?


u sure u wanna be saying that? cause i can tell all the wrong in ure post... first, one of the Nova recruits said that he was afraid Richie would kill her from the way he was bashing her head in at the start of the fight. then another recruit remarked that it would be tough to kill her since she's a Srontian. he continues pumelling her until he is distracted from the fact that his brother is still alive and not dead as he first thought when he entered the building. she gets the upperhand on a couple of panels because of that. then we find out why Richie did not make a quick retaliation. it's because he explains to her that he was giving himself some quick info through his suit's "Novapedia Index". he then gives her a head butt that disrupts her psionically fueled powers and disrupts it somewhat. then KO's her the fuk out. he did what any true hero would do, put down the criminal without killing if he could. she got pwned!

Originally posted by dmills
This is prolly going to be the last time I respond to yet another Glads/Nova thread. On second thought I'll just bookmark this so that I can cut and paste this response when this inevitably comes up again.

A significantly less powerful Nova fought Glads to a double tko before. And it was only a double KO then because Nova was drained from the discharge for plot reasons.

Currently Rider is significantly more powerful and more skilled with his power set as well. Glads is the same guy that he was when they fought 18 years ago. He punches things really hard and/or blasts things with heat vision, neither of which present a significant obstacle for Nova currently. So unless Glads has some new abilities that I don't know about I see no logical reason why the outcome of a fight between the two currently would result in anything other then a win for Nova. It didn't seem like a double k.o. to me. More like Gladiator was knocked for a loop but was still conscious. And I have doubts that Nova Prime could so easily use Gladiator's powers against him again, which is how classic Nova did it. Particularly when Gladiator has respect for him and his capabilities now.

As carver9 is suggesting, if Nova's first performance against Gladiator should be considered the end-all-be-all, than those Nova Corps members shouldn't have gotten so handily stomped by Gladiator (one of whom was the replacement Nova Prime, mind you) and Strontian wouldn't have appeared to be such a physical menace to Ryder Nova Prime.

However, I agree Nova Prime gets little credit, and I can settle for 5/10 split considering we've seen Ryder's willing to commit the full Nova force several times already. Originally posted by carver9
My bad. I can do better. Gladiator cousin was ripping through Nova and tanking his attacks as well. Nova was hinting around her being stronger and possibly more durable. He then pulls out a trick that immobilize her powers. This trick will not work on Gladiator, wo how will Nova beat him? You're quite confident it wouldn't work on Gladiator.

Originally posted by carver9
Anybody that seen that fight can tell that Glads was holding back. Nova even admitted that Glads was out of his league. Nova couldnt even damage him until he absorbed his powers and sent it back to him a hundred folds. Hell, the difference in power was so significant that Nova did a full charge/blitz at Gladiator resulting in him bouncing off of Glads chest like he was a piece of paper.

Gladiator stood over Nova that was stunned TWICE in that fight only to mock him.

By the way, it didn't end in a double tko, Nova was knocked the hell outGladiator stomps but Nova does good. Gladiator ran through a crew of Nova members without breaking a sweat...hell, he split one in half. Nova had trouble with Gladiator cousin and had to resort to dampening her powers because she was too strong.

Lmao. Glads clearly was portrayed as more powerful in that fight at that time.

At any rate he was drained from the blast because it was only the second time he had ever used his absorption powers. By the time his series progressed he was capable of absorbing planet busting energy without being drained upon release.





http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/nova%20energy%20absorption/th_1294201538166.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/nova%20energy%20absorption/th_1294201551188.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1314299671212.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It didn't seem like a double k.o. to me. More like Gladiator was knocked for a loop but was still conscious. And I have doubts that Nova Prime could so easily use Gladiator's powers against him again, which is how classic Nova did it. Particularly when Gladiator has respect for him and his capabilities now.

As carver9 is suggesting, if Nova's first performance against Gladiator should be considered the end-all-be-all, than those Nova Corps members shouldn't have gotten so handily stomped by Gladiator (one of whom was the replacement Nova Prime, mind you) and Strontian wouldn't have appeared to be such a physical menace to Ryder Nova Prime.

However, I agree Nova Prime gets little credit, and I can settle for 5/10 split considering we've seen Ryder's willing to commit the full Nova force several times already. You're quite confident it wouldn't work on Gladiator.

I don't think that Glads was straight up ko'd. I specified a double tko with both combatants temporarily out of commission. They're both just floating there in the first panel.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1314299621339.jpg

As for those Centurions, they were green and scared out of their minds. Rider was an experienced centurion that had fought in wars prior to his battle with Glads in addition to his time with the New Warriors. Not to mentioned prior fights with powerhouses like the Sphinx and Thor.

Strontian was a menace to lots of people during the War of Kings, Glads included. But point taken nonetheless

Fine by me.

What a suprise at Carver use a less poweful version of Nova as proof.

Nova easily handled Xenith and she was shown to be superior to Glads when she split his head wide open during WOK.

Gladiator never wins a 1 on 1 fight just like colossus he is useless in a 1 on 1 fight

I am seeing a lot of faulty logic at play here; the previous nova fight has little or no bearing on what would happen in a forum-fight. What is relevant is that Gladiator still has a sizeable edge over Nova in both damage output and durability (I would argue that Nova can blitz as well as Gladiator, but because both of these guys are blitzers, it seems more likely that this will come down to who can take getting punched by the other one the longest, and that favors Gladiator). Nova's energy manipulation is not going to be a big deal here, except to protect him from Gladiator's HV. This leaves the helmet trick, which can pull him a few wins. Otherwise, Gladiator still has much better high-end strength and durability feats, despite whatever potential Nova may have.

You're underrating Ryder's fire power imo. He can certainly take down Gladiator if he can attack him without giving a rest.

Originally posted by Bentley
You're underrating Ryder's fire power imo. He can certainly take down Gladiator if he can attack him without giving a rest.

How so? I'm not as familiar with Nova as Dmills is, but I've read a pretty good number of his comics, and I would imagine that the best stuff that I'd missed would at least make it into the respect thread.

Nova's best offensive feats are still < Gladiator's best offensive feats
Nova's best durability feats are still < Gladiator's best durability feats

I have no doubt that Nova could defeat Gladiator under certain conditions, but until he gets more high end feats I see it happening the other way around more often than not.

Originally posted by Bentley
You're underrating Ryder's fire power imo. He can certainly take down Gladiator if he can attack him without giving a rest. Nova can attack with his shields up, which stood up to blasts from Sphinx with 2 KA stones.

I don't think that it would be a total wash, but I see Nova Prime at full potential being able to take Gladiator for a majority.

Ryder has enough physical status to hang with Gladiator, coupled with his energy abilities to boost his status and shield himself, I think he's got him matched. Nova is also more versatile and a decent enough strategist to put Glads into problems.

This is in no way a walk in the park, but I think Nova's energy abilities + physical power makes him a serious competition for Glads in any conception of the fight.

Originally posted by Simbon
I am seeing a lot of faulty logic at play here; the previous nova fight has little or no bearing on what would happen in a forum-fight. What is relevant is that Gladiator still has a sizeable edge over Nova in both damage output and durability (I would argue that Nova can blitz as well as Gladiator, but because both of these guys are blitzers, it seems more likely that this will come down to who can take getting punched by the other one the longest, and that favors Gladiator). Nova's energy manipulation is not going to be a big deal here, except to protect him from Gladiator's HV. This leaves the helmet trick, which can pull him a few wins. Otherwise, Gladiator still has much better high-end strength and durability feats, despite whatever potential Nova may have.

Why wouldn't a previous encounter play a role in determining who would win? Glads is unchanged since they're last encounter. His attack methodology and power set is exactly the same. Rider is significantly more powerful, more skilled and experienced. Very often these things are purely speculative, but in this case we actually have a fight between both combatants that we can at the very least use as a barometer to gauge what a confrontation might look like today. We know how Glads is portrayed to fight. We know how Rider is portrayed to fight.

Granted its not engraved in stone that they HAVE to fight this way, but even diverging from their typical portrayals, Rider still has a deeper bag o tricks to go to then does Glads.

I don't think this is a wash in the park either. Nova is by far one of the most powerful/versatile Heralds out there but he hasn't shown me that he is capable of taking Glads out in a fight. Gladiator is stronger, faster, and more durable. I would give Rich the edge versatility wise but its not enough.

I know that Rich is a high class 100 but what is his best strength feat? Gladiator was tanking attacks from a Nova Prime replacement and basically one shotted him. I know Nova is better but how much better is he than his replacement that has pretty decent fts?

I can also see Gladiator performing much better against Surfer than Nova did.

Nova wins this.

Nova loses.

Gladiator wins.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think this is a wash in the park either. Nova is by far one of the most powerful/versatile Heralds out there but he hasn't shown me that he is capable of taking Glads out in a fight. Gladiator is stronger, faster, and more durable. I would give Rich the edge versatility wise but its not enough.

I know that Rich is a high class 100 but what is his best strength feat? Gladiator was tanking attacks from a Nova Prime replacement and basically one shotted him. I know Nova is better but how much better is he than his replacement that has pretty decent fts?

I can also see Gladiator performing much better against Surfer than Nova did.

Surfer has been stated to know about Glad's weakness to a certain type of radiation.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Surfer has been stated to know about Glad's weakness to a certain type of radiation.

Not Canon.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think this is a wash in the park either. Nova is by far one of the most powerful/versatile Heralds out there but he hasn't shown me that he is capable of taking Glads out in a fight. Gladiator is stronger, faster, and more durable. I would give Rich the edge versatility wise but its not enough.

I know that Rich is a high class 100 but what is his best strength feat? Gladiator was tanking attacks from a Nova Prime replacement and basically one shotted him. I know Nova is better but how much better is he than his replacement that has pretty decent fts?

I can also see Gladiator performing much better against Surfer than Nova did.

u talkin about the Nova Prime replacement? that dude was a nova for like 3 issues before they even bumped him up to NP. Richie has had a wealth of experience, plus he's been recognized by Queen Adora and the Worldmind as one of the best users of the nova force before he even became Nova Prime. do you even know the replacements name? he's a fodder standby that's why... sigh...

Originally posted by carver9
Not Canon. Since when?

Originally posted by dmills
Why wouldn't a previous encounter play a role in determining who would win? Glads is unchanged since they're last encounter. His attack methodology and power set is exactly the same. Rider is significantly more powerful, more skilled and experienced. Very often these things are purely speculative, but in this case we actually have a fight between both combatants that we can at the very least use as a barometer to gauge what a confrontation might look like today. We know how Glads is portrayed to fight. We know how Rider is portrayed to fight.

Granted its not engraved in stone that they HAVE to fight this way, but even diverging from their typical portrayals, Rider still has a deeper bag o tricks to go to then does Glads.

There are often forum matches between characters who have clashed on panel; the on-panel fight is significant for demonstrating strategies, but depending on whether it was a high or low showing for each character, may not have all that much bearing on the forum match, where both characters are considered to be fighting at their best. In this case, the fact that Nova has grown so much in power and experience is undeniable; but it is also undeniable that his best feats are still inferior to Gladiator's. I agree that Nova's bag of tricks is superior, and I give him a few wins for this, but the real killer here is that Gladiator is one of the few Marvel characters who can match Nova's speed, effectively negating the bullrush strategy, and making it so that most of the time the fight will come down to who can dish out and take the most damage, and Gladiator has Nova beat on both counts.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
u talkin about the Nova Prime replacement? that dude was a nova for like 3 issues before they even bumped him up to NP. Richie has had a wealth of experience, plus he's been recognized by Queen Adora and the Worldmind as one of the best users of the nova force before he even became Nova Prime. do you even know the replacements name? he's a fodder standby that's why... sigh...

What's the difference between his durability vs Nova durability? When you answer this, please explain why because he was a Nova Prime when he face Glads and he got one shotted.

Originally posted by Simbon
There are often forum matches between characters who have clashed on panel; the on-panel fight is significant for demonstrating strategies, but depending on whether it was a high or low showing for each character, may not have all that much bearing on the forum match, where both characters are considered to be fighting at their best. In this case, the fact that Nova has grown so much in power and experience is undeniable; but it is also undeniable that his best feats are still inferior to Gladiator's. I agree that Nova's bag of tricks is superior, and I give him a few wins for this, but the real killer here is that Gladiator is one of the few Marvel characters who can match Nova's speed, effectively negating the bullrush strategy, and making it so that most of the time the fight will come down to who can dish out and take the most damage, and Gladiator has Nova beat on both counts.


In terms of durability, Rider has pretty much run the gauntlet. Surviving planet busting power, solar system destroying power (yes Nihilist ) Black holes, neutron stars, suns, class 100+ punches, psionic attacks, techno organic viruses. I don't know what else you could possibly be looking for there. And that's not even going into the on the fly healing and energy recouping abilities. Rich can take whatever Glads can dish out, heal or even get more powerful as the fight goes on. I have the scans to support my position.

As far as damage output is concerned, we're talking about a guy that rips holes in space/time with gravimetric energy. More to the point though, he's blasted Diamondhead's hand clean off effortlessly, blasted a hole clean through a Technarch, blew its hand off, casually KO'd Drax with a pinkie blast, obliterated the Psionic essence of Ego etc. Not to mention that he's already busted up Glads with an energy pulse before. Suffice it to say I think he can make Glads feel it. A lot.

From what I've seen of Glads he makes a big entrance, looks amazing and unstoppable, pushes his weight around like a bully, but then wilts under the pressure when his opponent starts to push back. He's the Mike Tyson of the middle-high herald tier.

Originally posted by carver9
What's the difference between his durability vs Nova durability? When you answer this, please explain why because he was a Nova Prime when he face Glads and he got one shotted.

Since you asked so nicely I'll give you an analogy that you can appreciate. You know how Glads is so powerful because of the gladiator conditioning thingy that no one else completed but him? Think of it in that light. No other Nova can be as powerful as Rider because Rider's body has been altered at the molecular level to house the entire nova force. Tarcel was just a centurion with the "rank" of Nova Prime.

Oh and BTW Simbon I agree wholeheartedly with your position of taking a wait and see approach with Nova and that he needs more showings vs top tiers to solidify himself in the herald elite. I just respectfully disagree that Gladiator is the person to take that position about

Has Rich gotten much better since SS embarrassed him?

Originally posted by Mindset
Has Rich gotten much better since SS embarrassed him?

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/n_a-2.jpg

I'd say so whip

Doombot.

Originally posted by Mindset
Doombot.

Must be great to have an entire army of convenient excuses

Originally posted by carver9
Not Canon. Originally posted by Mindset

Originally posted by Mindset
Has Rich gotten much better since SS embarrassed him?

he slowly grew into his power as the series progressed..

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1314084088571.jpg

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1314084114039.jpg

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
he slowly grew into his power as the series progressed..

So how do you think current Rich would do against Surfer?

Originally posted by carver9
So how do you think current Rich would do against Surfer?

Rich loses to Thor and Surfer..



Gladiator ain't no Thor or Surfer...

Originally posted by dmills
In terms of durability, Rider has pretty much run the gauntlet. Surviving planet busting power, solar system destroying power (yes Nihilist ) Black holes, neutron stars, suns, class 100+ punches, psionic attacks, techno organic viruses. I don't know what else you could possibly be looking for there. And that's not even going into the on the fly healing and energy recouping abilities. Rich can take whatever Glads can dish out, heal or even get more powerful as the fight goes on. I have the scans to support my position.

As far as damage output is concerned, we're talking about a guy that rips holes in space/time with gravimetric energy. More to the point though, he's blasted Diamondhead's hand clean off effortlessly, blasted a hole clean through a Technarch, blew its hand off, casually KO'd Drax with a pinkie blast, obliterated the Psionic essence of Ego etc. Not to mention that he's already busted up Glads with an energy pulse before. Suffice it to say I think he can make Glads feel it. A lot.

From what I've seen of Glads he makes a big entrance, looks amazing and unstoppable, pushes his weight around like a bully, but then wilts under the pressure when his opponent starts to push back. He's the Mike Tyson of the middle-high herald tier.

You have hit the nail on the hit with the Mike Tyson comparison, and I think this gets to the heart of where we differ on Nova -- to push the boxing metaphor, what we have seen of him thus far in terms of trading punches (not bullrushing, resisting energy attacks, etc.) has not been enough to convince me that he has what to takes to last the six rounds that makes Tyson's defeat inevitable. Part of this has to do with the fact that Nova is almost never put up against a high-end brick that can match his speed, but it also has to do with the fact that, when it comes to punching, he has never delivered a blow (mind you, this is without bullrush, etc) that seemed like it wasn't something Colossus could replicate. By contrast, Gladiator is not portrayed as evenly as Nova is, but his top strength feats are vastly superior: smashing a planet, breaking hyperion's spine, etc. Likewise, Nova's best durability feats are almost all against energy/gravity forces, which he can manipulate; I need to see more before I am convinced that he can last long enough to win out against the Majestor. A final point should be added, though, which I don't think has been brought up: Nova is much smarter than Gladiator, and in a comic I can easily imagine a situation where he was physically overpowered, but ended up defeating Gladiator through cunning, either by helmet trick or by shaking his confidence some how.

Originally posted by carver9
So how do you think current Rich would do against Surfer?

Norrin still wins.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Rich loses to Thor and Surfer..



Gladiator ain't no Thor or Surfer...




Lol isn't that the true.

Originally posted by Simbon
You have hit the nail on the hit with the Mike Tyson comparison, and I think this gets to the heart of where we differ on Nova -- to push the boxing metaphor, what we have seen of him thus far in terms of trading punches (not bullrushing, resisting energy attacks, etc.) has not been enough to convince me that he has what to takes to last the six rounds that makes Tyson's defeat inevitable. Part of this has to do with the fact that Nova is almost never put up against a high-end brick that can match his speed, but it also has to do with the fact that, when it comes to punching, he has never delivered a blow (mind you, this is without bullrush, etc) that seemed like it wasn't something Colossus could replicate. By contrast, Gladiator is not portrayed as evenly as Nova is, but his top strength feats are vastly superior: smashing a planet, breaking hyperion's spine, etc. Likewise, Nova's best durability feats are almost all against energy/gravity forces, which he can manipulate; I need to see more before I am convinced that he can last long enough to win out against the Majestor. A final point should be added, though, which I don't think has been brought up: Nova is much smarter than Gladiator, and in a comic I can easily imagine a situation where he was physically overpowered, but ended up defeating Gladiator through cunning, either by helmet trick or by shaking his confidence some how.

who said he has to act like a brick to fight a high end brick? that's not what he does. he's all about versatility and on the fly tactical assessment. the Worldmind reminds him constantly to safeguard the Xandarian legacy. he would never just stay put and trade blows. that's the nature of his powerset. Gladiator would eat a barrage of gravimetric attacks before all is said and done.

p.s. i can tell u a brick he can lose to... hint, his name rhymes with duperdan...

lose to Gladiator? nah....

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
who said he has to act like a brick to fight a high end brick? that's not what he does. he's all about versatility and on the fly tactical assessment. the Worldmind reminds him constantly to safeguard the Xandarian legacy. he would never just stay put and trade blows. that's the nature of his powerset. Gladiator would eat a barrage of gravimetric attacks before all is said and done.

p.s. i can tell u a brick he can lose to... hint, his name rhymes with duperdan...

lose to Gladiator? nah....

The reason he would have to fight more like a brick in this instance is because of Gladiator's speed, which will make it virtually impossible for him to maintain distance while wearing Gladiator down with grav attacks. He will be forced to trade blows, and this is his biggest weakness in the feats department.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Rich loses to Thor and Surfer..



Gladiator ain't no Thor or Surfer...



Based on his showings against Binary, Masterson, Rachel, Vulcan, his latest fight against Black Bolt, the Nova Corp members, a Phoenix (twice), classic Rich, the entire XMen that consisted of Rachel, a Phoenix, Poloris, etc, etc... He should be able to bust up Surfer and Thor face a couple of times. Hell, didn't Rich punch Thor so hard that it dazed him? Rich attacks did squat to Gladiator until he used his own heat vision against him.

Then if you look at Gladiator last fight during War of Kings where he dropped every being that came his way with one punch which included a Skrulls that was amped by every Earth hero on the planet, War Bird, and other members as well.

Surfer and Thor isn't above him at all and looking at fts, he could possibly pull a majority without weakness exploiting.

Originally posted by Simbon
The reason he would have to fight more like a brick in this instance is because of Gladiator's speed, which will make it virtually impossible for him to maintain distance while wearing Gladiator down with grav attacks. He will be forced to trade blows, and this is his biggest weakness in the feats department. Nova Prime isn't exactly a slouch in combat superspeed or tactical maneuvering/traveling speed. The latter, he's probably one of the more proficient characters if you measure it by consistency. And I disagree that he's significantly disadvantaged in H2H. He's already held his own in straight-up, toe-to-toe H2H combat.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
who said he has to act like a brick to fight a high end brick? that's not what he does. he's all about versatility and on the fly tactical assessment. the Worldmind reminds him constantly to safeguard the Xandarian legacy. he would never just stay put and trade blows. that's the nature of his powerset. Gladiator would eat a barrage of gravimetric attacks before all is said and done.

p.s. i can tell u a brick he can lose to... hint, his name rhymes with duperdan...

lose to Gladiator? nah....

Why would he win against Gladiator but lose to Superman? Is it because they fight different? What's the reason?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Nova Prime isn't exactly a slouch in combat superspeed or tactical maneuvering/traveling speed. The latter, he's probably one of the more proficient characters if you measure it by consistency. And I disagree that he's significantly disadvantaged in H2H. He's already held his own in straight-up, toe-to-toe H2H combat.

I never besmirched Nova's speed (if you look at me previous posts, you'll see that I only say that Gladiator has superior durability and strength feats; I didn't emphasize speed because I think they are comparable), I'm simply saying that in order to use a strategy better suited to his abilities, he would need a solid speed advantage over Gladiator, and he does not have that. Likewise, while he's shown himself to be a powerful h2h combatant, his best feats here are significantly below gladiator's; throwing Colossus-level punches is not the same as smashing planets.

Originally posted by carver9
Why would he win against Gladiator but lose to Superman? Is it because they fight different? What's the reason?

You fell for that?

When are you gonna back up that Surfer saying he knows Glads weakness is not cannon, Carver.

Originally posted by Nihilist
When are you gonna back up that Surfer saying he knows Glads weakness is not cannon, Carver.

Carver only recognizes Carver-verse as canon, not 616.

Carverse has the best characters, especially Family Man Hulk.

Originally posted by Simbon
throwing Colossus-level punches is not the same as smashing planets. Colossus-level is a poor estimation. Colossus has trouble with Venom. Nova Prime completely shrugged Venom off when he had enough. And Colossus isn't standing toe-to-toe with Gladiator, Strontian, Lord Mar-Vell or outright gutting Annihilus.

Originally posted by Simbon
Carver only recognizes Carver-verse as canon, not 616.

If Nihilist responds to me, can you please not quote him since I have him on ignore.

Thanks bud.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Colossus-level is a poor estimation. Colossus has trouble with Venom. Nova Prime completely shrugged Venom off when he had enough. And Colossus isn't standing toe-to-toe with Gladiator, Strontian, Lord Mar-Vell or outright gutting Annihilus.

In a crossover superman had problems with venom.... ;-P

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Colossus-level is a poor estimation. Colossus has trouble with Venom. Nova Prime completely shrugged Venom off when he had enough. And Colossus isn't standing toe-to-toe with Gladiator, Strontian, Lord Mar-Vell or outright gutting Annihilus.

The venom example is exactly what I had in mind when I mentioned Colossus; given that he's knocked King Hyperion on his ass, and traded blows with Hulk, Vision, etc, knocking Venom aside is absolutely within Colossus' abilities.

Originally posted by carver9
If Nihilist responds to me, can you please not quote him since I have him on ignore.

Thanks bud. Sure you have, like you did before and lied about

Originally posted by Simbon
The venom example is exactly what I had in mind when I mentioned Colossus; given that he's knocked King Hyperion on his ass, and traded blows with Hulk, Vision, etc, knocking Venom aside is absolutely within Colossus' abilities.

When did Colossus go up against King Hype?

Originally posted by dmills
When did Colossus go up against King Hype?

Alternate versions.

Originally posted by carver9
Alternate versions.

That's what I thought. He's talking about Exiles huh?

Originally posted by Simbon
You have hit the nail on the hit with the Mike Tyson comparison, and I think this gets to the heart of where we differ on Nova -- to push the boxing metaphor, what we have seen of him thus far in terms of trading punches (not bullrushing, resisting energy attacks, etc.) has not been enough to convince me that he has what to takes to last the six rounds that makes Tyson's defeat inevitable. Part of this has to do with the fact that Nova is almost never put up against a high-end brick that can match his speed, but it also has to do with the fact that, when it comes to punching, he has never delivered a blow (mind you, this is without bullrush, etc) that seemed like it wasn't something Colossus could replicate. By contrast, Gladiator is not portrayed as evenly as Nova is, but his top strength feats are vastly superior: smashing a planet, breaking hyperion's spine, etc. Likewise, Nova's best durability feats are almost all against energy/gravity forces, which he can manipulate; I need to see more before I am convinced that he can last long enough to win out against the Majestor.

Fair points. Probably my fault for not putting a lot of this stuff in his respect thread. I'll be revamping it soon to correct some oversights.

At any rate, here are some things that might shed some light on Nova's toughness, innate durability, and quick healing factor. I'll stay away from shielded feats for now and just focus on his own durability without shields. I only want to convey here that he's durable enough and tough enough to last past these metaphorical 6 rounds with Glads. I'll set out to prove that he can serve Glads up with his attacks (punches, energy blasts) later. For now I'll show some classic Nova. The weakest incarnation of the character.

Here, Rider takes an absolute beating from the Sphinx (someone far more powerful then Glads). Keep in mind that this is classic Nova and that he's far outclassed in power here, but takes it and keeps on coming and after all of it he smiles. It also demonstrates his quick healing/recovery factor.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321551635876.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321551679189.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321551697820.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321551719133.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321551732040.jpg

Here we see classic Nova taking blows from arguably the most powerful of all high heralds, classic Thor. Again, shows just how durable and tough he is. Also important to note, he's been a centurion for all of 3 days here.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321553341538.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321553354827.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321553370448.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321553384960.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321553396095.jpg


Next up is Zorr. Not a well known character, but nonetheless a confirmed planetary level badass. Basically he solo'd Xandar (yeah I know). Note how easily he tears buildings out of the ground. He is also so durable that it took all of the power of the Nova Prime starship in a concentrated blast to put him down. These ships are miles in diameter/length with cannons powerful enough to give Ego pause. If you need supplemental info on Zorr or any other claims I've made about him I'll be happy to provide it.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321554478321.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321554524535.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321554565091.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321554593060.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/1321554660403.jpg