The Hulk vs Despero (V&V)

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Stoic
Despero in my opinion has never been shown to be more powerful than he was shown when he put many Herald level characters flat on their backs, vs the Hulk at his best prior to Incredible Hulks 635.

Who wins, and why?

iceman24567
Despero via tp and fists in a purely h2h fight idk

Oslaught1262
i think Despero can take him with tp, physically is hard to say as i haven't read the most recent Hulk issues

carver9
Hulk kills him.

Gecko4lif
Tp ROFL rapes hulk
H2h he should take it in a quick fight

vansonbee
Despero using TP would win, I don't see him winning any physical confrontations.

Stoic
Hulk is incredibly resistant to Psychic attack due to his constant rage which literally places him in a state of pure ignorance. Not certain Despero would be able to mind rape Ernie the Postman once he slips into that much of a rage storm.

Prep-Man
Despero lifted the ROE, which is a huge physical feat. He can hang.

Stoic
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Despero lifted the ROE, which is a huge physical feat. He can hang.

Rock of Eternity, not bad. How much does that weigh? I have a feeling that you're about to say that it has infinite mass, and therefore can't be quantified. amiright?

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Stoic
Hulk is incredibly resistant to Psychic attack due to his constant rage which literally places him in a state of pure ignorance. Not certain Despero would be able to mind rape Ernie the Postman once he slips into that much of a rage storm.
Hulk hasnt resisted Galactic level tp.

Not sure he has even resisted planetary level tp

Stoic
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Hulk hasnt resisted Galactic level tp.

Not sure he has even resisted planetary level tp

Listen if you can't get in there you can't get in there. Nah mean brah?

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Stoic
Rock of Eternity, not bad. How much does that weigh? I have a feeling that you're about to say that it has infinite mass, and therefore can't be quantified. amiright?

Yes, because that has been stated in books.

carver9
Hulk has resisted BOTH Emma Frost and Xavier attacking him at the same time mentally and he did it more than once. TP isn't doing a d*** thang to Hulk.

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yes, because that has been stated in books.

Proof.

Stoic
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yes, because that has been stated in books.

Therefore we can't put too much faith on an unquantified feat, because we just don't know what, or how to do so right? The Rock of Eternity for all we know may have weighed as much as several planets, or as little as a building.

Oslaught1262
Hulk was mindcontrolled by Onslaught... twice!

carver9
Originally posted by Oslaught1262
Hulk was mindcontrolled by Onslaught... twice!

Savage Hulk sure was...WWH fought off Xavier once and then he resisted both Emma and Xavier attacking him at the same time. He was attacked so many times during the WWH arc mentally that its pretty much pointless to think TP would work against him.

Oslaught1262
savage also resisted Xavier, i truly doubt that modern Hulk has better mental-resistance feats that savage had. is there any reason for you to think thats the case?

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Stoic
Therefore we can't put too much faith on an unquantified feat, because we just don't know what, or how to do so right? The Rock of Eternity for all we know may have weighed as much as several planets, or as little as a building.

Infinite weight from what I recall.

iceman24567
Hulk is highly resistant to tp not immune somebody of Desperos calibre can handle him

carver9
Originally posted by Oslaught1262
savage also resisted Xavier, i truly doubt that modern Hulk has better mental-resistance feats that savage had. is there any reason for you to think thats the case?

Yes...he resisted Emma, then Xavier attacked him mentally a couple of issues after this to no avail... Emma and Xavier attacks him together... Nothing happened. Savage Hulk resistance isn't that good.

vansonbee
Xavier was once able to connect all Skrulls on a whole world into Galactus mind.

Stoic
Has Despero ever fought a raving lunatic like the Hulk can become before? Lobo is able to resist Despero right?

Prep-Man
Despero's mental powers are pretty strong. Didn't he enslave an entire world? And it doesn't matter if you can resist or have high resistance, you will be taken over. Might as well give him no mental powers.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Stoic
Has Despero ever fought a raving lunatic like the Hulk can become before? Lobo is able to resist Despero right?

He did fight Starro for a bit. He had the power of galaxies. Eventually he got his head cut off.

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Despero's mental powers are pretty strong. Didn't he enslave an entire world? And it doesn't matter if you can resist or have high resistance, you will be taken over. Might as well give him no mental powers.

It's pretty much debatable if Despero is above Xavier mentally... Despero would get ripped by both Xavier and Emma in a TP battle and both of them failed against Hulk and the crazy thing about it is...he was fighting a group of XMen that was dampening his powers during this attack.


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0006.jpg

Prep-Man
I think the way the powers are, it's 2 entirely different ways to control.

Stoic
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Despero's mental powers are pretty strong. Didn't he enslave an entire world? And it doesn't matter if you can resist or have high resistance, you will be taken over. Might as well give him no mental powers.


Nope I won't neuter him to give the Hulk what many may believe is a break. All characters lose. I just want to see what people think of these two going at it with all of their powers.

I know that if you're mind is filled with hatred, and rage to the point that you can pop a planet under foot with little effort is likely to be enough rage to just ignore Despero's probe or mental takeover, and blast him back with a psychic backlash.

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
I think the way the powers are, it's 2 entirely different ways to control.

confused

Oslaught1262
Originally posted by carver9
Yes...he resisted Emma, then Xavier attacked him mentally a couple of issues after this to no avail... Emma and Xavier attacks him together... Nothing happened. Savage Hulk resistance isn't that good.


that kind of feat isnt beyond Savages capabilities, you seem to ignore the whole history of the character to pretend that his mental defenses have been improved recently. there is no statement nor feat that suggests such improvement actually happened, Hulk is still resistant as he always was

-Pr-
Despero was shown to be above Martian Manhunter and Aquaman combined, two VERY powerful telepaths in their own right.

Stoic
Originally posted by Oslaught1262
that kind of feat isnt beyond Savages capabilities, you seem to ignore the whole history of the character to pretend that his mental defenses have been improved recently. there is no statement nor feat that suggests such improvement actually happened, Hulk is still resistant as he always was

Onslaught took over Professor Hulk twice, not Savage Hulk, but he couldn't touch the Hulk when he was fillled with nothing but rage. I'm using a Hulk that's balls to the floor mad in this thread, not some Hulk that was pleading and joking with Zeus to stop stepping on his family jewels.

Stoic
By the way I get to meet the Hulk tomorrow, he's passing through Jersey pretending to be some chick named Irene. Seriously though, does anyone else live on the east coast?

Nihilist
Despero what rape the shit out of Hulks mind, physicaly he would get the win in the end.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Stoic
Listen if you can't get in there you can't get in there. Nah mean brah?
A Normal guy cant get through a cemented up door but superman would have 0 trouble

Nah mean brah?

Prep-Man
Originally posted by -Pr-
Despero was shown to be above Martian Manhunter and Aquaman combined, two VERY powerful telepaths in their own right.

Yeah, and MM has comparable feats to Xavier. They are in the same class.

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yeah, and MM has comparable feats to Xavier. They are in the same class.

And Emma is >> Aquaman telepathically and the both of them combined couldn't even tickle Hulks mind.

Prep-Man
Despero's eye will override his will.

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Despero's eye will override his will.

Based on who over riding Hulks will?

Prep-Man
the 3rd eye. No matter how strong willed you are, it can be taken over. At least that was shown in his earlier appearances.

Lord Feron
Despero makes it a fight if he uses all his powers, i don;'t think he can put down hulk with TP alone but it will distract Hulk and slow him down and despero is strong enough to not get splattered on the 1st hit and strong enough to make hulk feel his fists. But I'm gonna put my money on hulk because i think his advantages in strength and HF can power through Despero.

Prep-Man
Despero also got his head cut off by Starro, but he was still conscious after that. He has a good healing factor as well.

Stoic
Originally posted by Nihilist
Despero would what the effers rape the shit out of Thanos' mind, and physicaly he would get the win in the end.


Fixed

Oslaught1262
Originally posted by Stoic
Onslaught took over Professor Hulk twice, not Savage Hulk, but he couldn't touch the Hulk when he was fillled with nothing but rage. I'm using a Hulk that's balls to the floor mad in this thread, not some Hulk that was pleading and joking with Zeus to stop stepping on his family jewels.


if Hulk is as mad as he was back in the Onslaught saga, then he should resist tp long enough to engage in physical combat. hes likely defeated then

carver9
Originally posted by Stoic
Fixed

I don't even know why people take his posts serious regarding the Hulk.

Stoic
Originally posted by Oslaught1262
if Hulk is as mad as he was back in the Onslaught saga, then he should resist tp long enough to engage in physical combat. hes likely defeated then


Recently I believe that he may have been even angrier, this doesn't somejow stop him from being imposing. Let's take Doomsday for example, would Despero stop him from taking the fight to him, because of rage issues?

carver9
Hulk is literally a beast. Shield has confirmation and power scaling on almost every super human in Marvel.

I like what shield states about WWH and the crazy thing about it is, he was holding back smile .

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest1.jpg

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Stoic
Recently I believe that he may have been even angrier, this doesn't somejow stop him from being imposing. Let's take Doomsday for example, would Despero stop him from taking the fight to him, because of rage issues?

Despero supposedly has a spirit form to take over any sentinent being. Trying to find some scans now.

Oslaught1262
Originally posted by Stoic
Recently I believe that he may have been even angrier, this doesn't somejow stop him from being imposing. Let's take Doomsday for example, would Despero stop him from taking the fight to him, because of rage issues?


Doomsday has a very serious tp resistance himself, Despero may be able to influence him but not control him

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Despero supposedly has a spirit form to take over any sentinent being. Trying to find some scans now.

You don't have faith in his physical skills? He was taking it to Heralds.

Prep-Man
Who? Despero?

Stoic
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Despero supposedly has a spirit form to take over any sentinent being. Trying to find some scans now.

The Hulk has also been seen to have magical resistances to some degree.

Prep-Man
It's not magic based. I hear it's like a Deadman. And no matter what, he can control any being.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by Prep-Man
It's not magic based. I hear it's like a Deadman. And no matter what, he can control any being.

Lol ya know you don't seem to be to sure about the abilities of this guy.

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Who? Despero?

Yes.

Stoic
Originally posted by Prep-Man
It's not magic based. I hear it's like a Deadman. And no matter what, he can control any being.


Not sure if that would be viable for someone like the Hulk, The Vision tried to do something similar to the Hulk and wound up in agony, just to be pushed out. I think that a battle between the Hulk and Despero would end up as a physical confrontation, and not one where the Hulk's body was hijacked, as if from some evil spirit.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
And Emma is >> Aquaman telepathically and the both of them combined couldn't even tickle Hulks mind.

I sincerely hope you're not talking about WWH.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Despero supposedly has a spirit form to take over any sentinent being. Trying to find some scans now.

In Young Justice he took over J'onn.

Nihilist
Originally posted by Stoic
Fixed Butthurt much.Originally posted by carver9
I don't even know why people take his posts serious regarding the Hulk. Thought i was on ignore, another lie

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
I sincerely hope you're not talking about WWH.



In Young Justice he took over J'onn.


I posted the scan.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
I posted the scan.

facepalm

You mean the same issue where Xavier admitted that he deserved any punishment the Hulk gave him?

Sometimes I wonder if you're some sort of masochist...

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Stoic
Not sure if that would be viable for someone like the Hulk, The Vision tried to do something similar to the Hulk and wound up in agony, just to be pushed out. I think that a battle between the Hulk and Despero would end up as a physical confrontation, and not one where the Hulk's body was hijacked, as if from some evil spirit.

Despero and Vision are two entirely different beings and Despero being way more powerful.

Nihilist
Originally posted by -Pr-
facepalm

You mean the same issue where Xavier admitted that he deserved any punishment the Hulk gave him?

Sometimes I wonder if you're some sort of masochist... And the fact Hulk broke free of Xaviers mind assualt by jumping in a friggin pond...PIS or what.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
facepalm

You mean the same issue where Xavier admitted that he deserved any punishment the Hulk gave him?

Sometimes I wonder if you're some sort of masochist...

But he still wanted to stop him though. The only reason he said that was because all of his efforts including the XMen failed at stopping Hulk. When he said that, he was basically at Hulks mercy until Juggernaut showed up.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by carver9
Yes.

I'm confident on his physical abilties alone, but he has way more options than just physical strength. And the op said all powers.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
But he still wanted to stop him though. The only reason he said that was because all of his efforts including the XMen failed at stopping Hulk. When he said that, he was basically at Hulks mercy until Juggernaut showed up.

No, he didn't; that was the entire point of the comic: Xavier's guilt and his surrender. Or did you forget the part where Emma was screaming at Xavier to help?

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
No, he didn't; that was the entire point of the comic: Xavier's guilt and his surrender. Or did you forget the part where Emma was screaming at Xavier to help?

I remember that part. Do you think he put in a lil effort with Emma to stop Hulk telepathically or do you think it was all just her?

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
I remember that part. Do you think he put in a lil effort with Emma to stop Hulk telepathically or do you think it was all just her?

A bit of effort, perhaps, but nothing near his full power, like most of the people in that issue.

Then there's the fact that Despero had simultaneous control over: Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Hal Jordan, Batman, to name a few, all of whom have impressive telepathic resistance.

And then, you know, this is WWH we're talking about. Where people are suddenly crapper than before or just generally forget their powers when fighting Hulk.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
A bit of effort, perhaps, but nothing near his full power, like most of the people in that issue.

Then there's the fact that Despero had simultaneous control over: Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Hal Jordan, Batman, to name a few, all of whom have impressive telepathic resistance.

And then, you know, this is WWH we're talking about. Where people are suddenly crapper than before or just generally forget their powers when fighting Hulk.

I'm not responding to this. I don't agree with a lot of stuff you said in it.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
I'm not responding to this. I don't agree with a lot of stuff you said in it.

fLrpBLDWyCI

Everything I said happened on panel.

The Sorrow
Xavier said his rage is like an elemental force and it's what kept him out, Dr Strange came to same conclusion when he couldn't enter Hulks mind even with prep and Emma couldn't either. In the fairly recent (Red)Hulk #30 Xenmu the Titan said Hulk was immune to his tp for the same reason.

The stips stated current Hulk who is far more enraged than he was during WWH. Despero isn't overcoming that amount of rage.

iceman24567
Originally posted by -Pr-
A bit of effort, perhaps, but nothing near his full power, like most of the people in that issue.

Then there's the fact that Despero had simultaneous control over: Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Hal Jordan, Batman, to name a few, all of whom have impressive telepathic resistance.

And then, you know, this is WWH we're talking about. Where people are suddenly crapper than before or just generally forget their powers when fighting Hulk. thumb up

Digi
I'm no expert here, but wasn't V&V Despero soloing the Justice League? As in, made up of 3-4 people that would win majorities off of any Hulk. What could the Hulk's case possibly hold against that?

Simbon
Originally posted by Digi
I'm no expert here, but wasn't V&V Despero soloing the Justice League? As in, made up of 3-4 people that would win majorities off of any Hulk. What could the Hulk's case possibly hold against that?

Exactly; there is good reason to believe that Hulk could resist Despero's TP, but physically Hulk is outclassed here.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Simbon
Exactly; there is good reason to believe that Hulk could resist Despero's TP, but physically Hulk is outclassed here. you have it ass-backwards.

Simbon
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you have it ass-backwards.

I can see why you might see it that way, PG:

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar106635_1.gif

↓

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5f4dwu5pTeY/SukLlcwnugI/AAAAAAAACQ8/ImO8Pg-sMGg/s400/tumblr_kryaqgzuA31qz9bwro1_500.jpg

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by Simbon
I can see why you might see it that way, PG:

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar106635_1.gif

↓

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5f4dwu5pTeY/SukLlcwnugI/AAAAAAAACQ8/ImO8Pg-sMGg/s400/tumblr_kryaqgzuA31qz9bwro1_500.jpg


Come on man I'm eating.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Simbon
I can see why you might see it that way, PG:

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar106635_1.gif

↓

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5f4dwu5pTeY/SukLlcwnugI/AAAAAAAACQ8/ImO8Pg-sMGg/s400/tumblr_kryaqgzuA31qz9bwro1_500.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/02-gaddafi_415x275.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/InProfileMuammaralGaddafi9NmcXb48vVfl-1.jpg

-Pr-
Originally posted by Digi
I'm no expert here, but wasn't V&V Despero soloing the Justice League? As in, made up of 3-4 people that would win majorities off of any Hulk. What could the Hulk's case possibly hold against that?

JLA AND JSA.

psycho gundam
so wait

Originally posted by -Pr-
And then, you know, this is WWH we're talking about. Where people are suddenly crapper than before or just generally forget their powers when fighting Hulk. (untrue btw (maybe strange was an exception, but context fixes that..and knowledge of the past they share))

but the two leagues that clashed with despero didn't?

*hearty laugh*

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
so wait

(untrue btw (maybe strange was an exception, but context fixes that..and knowledge of the past they share))

but the two leagues that clashed with despero didn't?

*hearty laugh*

It's not untrue imo.

And i never said the Leagues were fighting to the best of their ability. Despero still showed a clear physical advantage against more powerful opposition, though.

So check your "hearty laugh" at the door, please.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
It's not untrue imo. please elaborate

Originally posted by -Pr-
Despero still showed a clear physical advantage against more powerful opposition, though. who in your opinion didn't fight to their best (hopefully that is true)

superman for one didn't even care to use his vaunted speed to save his friends. go figure

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
please elaborate

who in your opinion didn't fight to their best (hopefully that is true)

superman for one didn't even care to use his vaunted speed to save his friends. go figure

The X-Men, Hercules, Sentry by a huge ways. He didn't have to fight Thor or Surfer.

True, he didn't, but what about Captain Marvel, Power Girl, Hourman etc? Despero ploughed through them, and was shown to be superior in strength to all of them for the most part.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
The X-Men who were shown to be ineffectual as a collective, even with their B too D listers using pretty much lethal force despite the reason they were at the shcool was for them to not have to use their abilities in that way

hulk was holding back

Originally posted by -Pr-
Hercules they fought many times before, herculese and hulk being at his classic levels, and as i've posted a dying hulk fighting more ferociously than ever (w/ diminishing strength) fought the collective avengers and a whole host of others alongside herculese and did quite well

currrent hulk was holding back (a lot) and curbstomped him

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sentry didn't you guys come to some decision that sentry was to be debated in separate forms all together on these forums?

anyway, a holding back hulk did "win" that fight, and showed he was physically superior by leaps and bounds than the sentry was

Originally posted by -Pr-
He didn't have to fight Thor

he did at weaker levels ad nauseum. more importantly he wasn't there

Originally posted by -Pr-
or Surfer.

whom he never had a clean fight with. more importantly he wasn't there

Originally posted by -Pr-
True, he didn't, but what about Captain Marvel, Power Girl, Hourman etc? Despero ploughed through them, and was shown to be superior in strength to all of them for the most part. can't argue with that (in terms of strength) as i bring that up whenever possible, but as for that proving he could take the hulk down especially with the stuff he's been doing as of late is highly dubious.

benefit of the doubt, using his vast mental powers he most likely can win.

carver9
The JLA and JSA has been soloed so much that its not even interesting any more. Hulk is clearly stronger and more durable. Soloing teams isn't something new for either of them. A dying Hulk has soloed a powerful group of Avengers.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by psycho gundam
whom he never had a clean fight with. more importantly he wasn't there Ironically he fought him in the process of becoming WWH on Sakaar. Only physical though but he did and he'd won.

psycho gundam
wasn't a clean fight

they were both powered down, and surfer was under control (i don't remember if hulk had the disc on as well)

Parmaniac
Originally posted by psycho gundam
wasn't a clean fight

they were both powered down, and surfer was under control (i don't remember if hulk had the disc on as well) Stop arguing I'm backing you up sneer

carver9
Yes, Hulk had the disk. Surfer was the one that freed him and took off the disk.

iceman24567
A couple of characters were written down in WWH Strange being number one they should should have removed him from the arch Illuminati or not erm

carver9
Strange was affraid to do that because he stated that if he would have bfred Hulk, Hulk would have returned with far more power than he had as his WWH counterpart due to anger and they couldn't even handle that little bit he brought to the table.

Strange thought smart.

iceman24567
Strange can do more than bfr come on now no expression

Parmaniac
I agree on Strange and I'd like to add Reed Richards but both of them are more or less Deus Ex Machina Characters, especially Reed tech trumps pretty much everything else.

psycho gundam
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8833/incrediblehulk29924.jpg

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
who were shown to be ineffectual as a collective, even with their B too D listers using pretty much lethal force despite the reason they were at the shcool was for them to not have to use their abilities in that way

hulk was holding back

they fought many times before, herculese and hulk being at his classic levels, and as i've posted a dying hulk fighting more ferociously than ever (w/ diminishing strength) fought the collective avengers and a whole host of others alongside herculese and did quite well

currrent hulk was holding back (a lot) and curbstomped him

didn't you guys come to some decision that sentry was to be debated in separate forms all together on these forums?

anyway, a holding back hulk did "win" that fight, and showed he was physically superior by leaps and bounds than the sentry was



he did at weaker levels ad nauseum. more importantly he wasn't there



whom he never had a clean fight with. more importantly he wasn't there

can't argue with that (in terms of strength) as i bring that up whenever possible, but as for that proving he could take the hulk down especially with the stuff he's been doing as of late is highly dubious.

benefit of the doubt, using his vast mental powers he most likely can win.

Are you actually being honest? Or just trolling me?

iceman24567
Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8833/incrediblehulk29924.jpg Cute but Strange actually trying to kill Hulk would do it easily

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
Are you actually being honest? Or just trolling me? i can post scans for everything stated in the quote

can you do the same for your stance?


biscuits

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i can post scans for everything stated in the quote

can you do the same for your stance?


biscuits

Yes, but the question still stands. I don't mind arguing the point with you, but I don't want to end up wasting my time.

psycho gundam
i don't know what you want me to say here. you're claiming the hulk beat characters not only weaker than the ones despero fought, but they were holding back (or fighting as low as they could). i don't think the last part is entirely true

hulk was not only obviously holding back his power, but chose not to kill with the utter ease he easily could have.

Nihilist
Strange said he could of killed Hulk but didnt because Banner was his pal, Pak also confirmed Strange could of killed Hulk.

psycho gundam
well, it goes both ways then (pause)

strange's relationship with the hulk is like that of hulk's with the silver surfer's where a fight usually centers around surfer or strange forgoing fisticuffs for "cheap" takedowns, through like it or not strange has been at the hulk's mercy pretty much just as many times as he's been at strange's

hessitating against hulk 9/10 = getting sent to the hospital

Prep-Man
Both Strange and Reed could have stopped the Hulk, if they really wanted to.

Nihilist
Strange uses "cheap" takedowns because they are pals, if Strange brought his full might to battle Hulk would die instantly and Hulk would be able to harm Strange.

psycho gundam
and hulk could have shattered the planet if he really wanted to, CIP is why things happened the way they did

as for strange: all he can do is soul manipulation and dimensional bfr. if he chooses neither of those permanent methods hulk will be angry somewhere else or will overpower whatever other method strange employs as shown on-panel, and eventually beat him down.

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Both Strange and Reed could have stopped the Hulk, if they really wanted to.

They would need some crazy prep. Even Reed stated that he couldn't stop WWH?

carver9
Strange already tried soul manipulation on Hulk and got crushed.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
They would need some crazy prep. Even Reed stated that he couldn't stop WWH? Stark, Richards and Strange together rewrote reality.

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Stark, Richards and Strange together rewrote reality.

I know what they are capable of...especially together but approaching Hulk in a face to face manner isn't going to help them. They tried that and failed. Reed magic doesn't work so well against Hulk. He tried more than once and failed.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
I know what they are capable of...especially together but approaching Hulk in a face to face manner isn't going to help them. They tried that and failed. Reed magic doesn't work so well against Hulk. He tried more than once and failed. They had prep in WWH. They simply didn't pulled the deus ex machina plot device.

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
They had prep in WWH. They simply didn't pulled the deus ex machina plot device.

Probably but when does Reed ever resort to stuff like that minus Galactus? Where was he during the Void deal.
?

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by Parmaniac
They had prep in WWH. They simply didn't pulled the deus ex machina plot device.


They essentially had 24 hours of prep when you give Doctor Strange and Reed Richards who had the Black Panther at his disposal when you give those guys that amount of time and they fail you would usually think that the threat would be a couple levels above the Hulk.

I think both those guys are Bruce's friend and they are just certain methods and lines they wont cross also I don't think they were ready or prepared for how piss off Hulk was how powerful he had became or how far he would take it.


But I get what your saying this is a guy who has turned back Galactus on more than one occasion had a gun to destroy Celestials and a ray in his lab that could destroy a small moon.We have not even mention the Anti Galactus Robot or him having access to the negative zone hell I think he still has a time machine.

cdtm
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Stark, Richards and Strange together rewrote reality.

Feh, Hulk could do that with a thunderclap. stick out tongue

Parmaniac
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
I think both those guys are Bruce's friend and they are just certain methods and lines they wont cross also I don't think they were ready or prepared for how piss off Hulk was how powerful he had became or how far he would take it. I don't have a prob with them being crippled by CIS cause they are friends of Banner but they still could pull stuff that simply takes him out with no effort.

Originally posted by carver9
Where was he during the Void deal.
? Plot, the whole "I-go-and-create-an-awesome-device-that-saves-the-day" thing is plot driven anyway. Tech trumps pretty much everything, Entropy Gun > Celestials, Tech turned the fountain of youth into a wishing well and in DC we have the miracle machine

EDIT: Not to mention the inhibitor collars and the box that was able to nullify powers too, even Sentry was Bob again and the Raft has power dampeners aswell. They could have just taken the shit that's already lying around.

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i don't know what you want me to say here. you're claiming the hulk beat characters not only weaker than the ones despero fought, but they were holding back (or fighting as low as they could). i don't think the last part is entirely true

hulk was not only obviously holding back his power, but chose not to kill with the utter ease he easily could have.

the combined might of the JLA/JSA is on paper more powerful than most of the guys Hulk fought, was all i was saying.

as far as being as low as they could be/holding back, If that's what it sounded like, it's not what I meant. Yes, i felt that the people fighting Hulk at times underperformed, but i'm not saying they were at their worst either (though that cyclops "full power" thing is pure bullshit). i don't believe they were holding back as much as some were underwritten in most cases. i'm not saying hulk was weak, just that some people that fought him should have done better (even if they still lost).

in short, if you want to make hulk a true force of nature, then make everyone bring their A game and THEN get beaten. that's my main gripe with WWH, tbh.

regardless, I'd say that Hulk is superior physically to Despero, but I'd worry about Despero's ability to combine physical and telepathic attacks like he has in the past.

Originally posted by carver9
Probably but when does Reed ever resort to stuff like that minus Galactus? Where was he during the Void deal.
?

that's like asking why the flash doesn't turn up in every batman comic and just search gotham from top to bottom in 4.3 seconds.

it's comics.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by -Pr-

then make everyone bring their A game and THEN get beaten.







I think there is a reason that the Sorcerer Supreme ended up in what amounted to a fist fight with the Hulk.You gave the likes of Strange 24 hours of prep and have him bring his A game and your event is over.

cdtm
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
I think there is a reason that the Sorcerer Supreme ended up in what amounted to a fist fight with the Hulk.You gave the likes of Strange 24 hours of prep and have him bring his A game and your event is over.

Agreed.

With prep, Strange matched each individual gem from the Infinity Gauntlet. Now imagine if the beam he used to match the Power Gems beam was turned on Hulk? Any Hulk.

He could probably take out most high abstracts with that level of power.. Or at the least, mess up a Celestial or two..

Nihilist
Originally posted by psycho gundam
and hulk could have shattered the planet if he really wanted to, CIP is why things happened the way they didWhich would have done nothing to Strange and Strange could easily destroy the panet if needed

lol, Hulk would be able to hanlde Stranges blast power if he wasnt holding backm Hulk would never get through his shields.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Nihilist
lol, Hulk would be able to hanlde Stranges blast power if he wasnt holding backm again, goes both ways as you now know considering the latest hulk issue

Originally posted by Nihilist Hulk would never get through his shields.

i already posted hulk making strange pass out from effort trying to slow him down with various mystics, but you think shields will help?

behold:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/grabshield1.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/grabshield2.jpg

that machine was a devient designed weapon to battle the celestials

Nihilist
Originally posted by psycho gundam
again, goes both ways as you now know considering the latest hulk issueHulk destroying a planet,big deal Strange has destroyed dimensions.



Seeing as he has resisted greater forces it comes across as pis

The difference is Strange would still be able to attack from behind his shield plus Stranges shields have laughed off attacks from a well fed Galactus and Death.

cdtm
Originally posted by -Pr-
regardless, I'd say that Hulk is superior physically to Despero,

Not sure I agree even current Hulk is superior, let alone WWH..

Besides manhandling more class 100's at once than Hulk did in WWH, Despero did hold up the Rock of Eternity.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by psycho gundam


i already posted hulk making strange pass out from effort trying to slow him down with various mystics, but you think shields will help?


Wasn't that when Hulk came to his house and Strange stopped him with a finger and used the eye on him and went into his mind and it was Nightmare manipulated Hulk I don't remember all the details.

That scan clearly stated that he was exhausted from the ordeal and that's why he collapsed.

vansonbee
Originally posted by cdtm
Not sure I agree even current Hulk is superior, let alone WWH..

Besides manhandling more class 100's at once than Hulk did in WWH, Despero did hold up the Rock of Eternity. Was there a stated weigh for "Rock of Eternity"? Posters been throwing its name around w/o a given weight.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Wasn't that when Hulk came to his house and Strange stopped him with a finger and used the eye on him and went into his mind and it was Nightmare manipulated Hulk I don't remember all the details.

That scan clearly stated that he was exhausted from the ordeal and that's why he collapsed. yes to the first part, and no to the final portion.

let me just find it right quick smile

psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange1.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange2.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange3.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange4.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange5.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange6.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange7.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange8.jpg

"...horrific howling of the hulk as he rends the dark dimension asunder." - dr. stephen strange

le gasp

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange1.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange2.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange3.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange4.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange5.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange6.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange7.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulkstrange8.jpg

"...horrific howling of the hulk as he rends the dark dimension asunder." - dr. stephen strange

le gasp




I think it's pretty important that they mention him being exhausted and linking the strength of the bands to his physical condition.It's clear the bands was not strong enough to hold Hulk and that the added strain of trying on top of his exhustion caused him to caused him to collapse.

But unless we see a fresh strange fail to do that I don't see how you can use that as evidence.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
I think it's pretty important that they mention him being exhausted and linking the strength of the bands to his physical condition.It's clear the bands was not strong enough to hold Hulk and that the strain of trying to caused him to collapse.

But unless we see a fresh strange fail to do that I don't see how you can use that as evidence. he was fresh, the page before the fight he said he was about to head out to look for hulk to save him untill he conveniently started pounding on his door, hulk's struggling is what caused the fatigue.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by psycho gundam
he was fresh, the page before the fight he said he was about to head out to look for hulk to save him untill he conveniently started pounding on his door, hulk's struggling is what caused the fatigue.


The exhaustion was not attributed to Hulks pounding it was to the ordeal he went through in Hulks mind I can only go by what the comic clearly states.The pounding along with trying to hold Hulk most certainly contributed.


Him going out to look for the Hulk does not mean he was not exhausted.I dont see that stopping Strange from going out to look for the Hulk no matter what shape he is in considering he just saw first hand what happened and the danger the Hulk now posed.

carver9
Lol @ people using Classic fts for Strange when those fts really don't even apply to current Strange.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by carver9
Lol @ people using Classic fts for Strange when those fts really don't even apply to current Strange.


I don't understand what your trying to say here when strange fought Hulk he was still the Sorcerer Supreme.We are not debating about current Strange.

Nihilist
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
I don't understand what your trying to say here when strange fought Hulk he was still the Sorcerer Supreme.We are not debating about current Strange. thumb upexactly. Hulk fans will to any length to twist things.

Stoic
During WWHulk Dr. Strange visited Banners mind and had his Astral hands broken, which resulted in Strange taking the same damage in physical space.

If Despero's power works in a similar manner, I see him failing as well to take over the Hulks mind, or body.

If he attempts to take over his mind in ways that mirror Xavier's, I see him suffering from a similar psychic backlash that pushed Xavier and Emma Frost out of his mind as well.

In my opinion this would end is a physical confrontation, and I don't think that Despero can hang with the Hulk for very long. So far the Hulk's strength can not be measured.

The Hulk's healing factor eliminates lactic acid from impairing the Hulk, so he could virtually fight non-stop for weeks on end, and only because of the fact that he needs to eat.

My vote is on the Hulk breaking something within Despero, after a long fight, and ultimately winning.

Prep-Man
Starro's eye can break down pretty much any will. That's it's thing.

-Pr-
Originally posted by cdtm
Not sure I agree even current Hulk is superior, let alone WWH..

Besides manhandling more class 100's at once than Hulk did in WWH, Despero did hold up the Rock of Eternity.

He did? It's been a while since i read it...

psycho gundam
Originally posted by cdtm
Not sure I agree even current Hulk is superior, let alone WWH..

Besides manhandling more class 100's at once than Hulk did in WWH http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/sharkbitejv6.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2ymgaq1.gif

-Pr-
Yeah, his durability isn't the greatest. He's one of the most skewed characters in comics when it comes to the differences between strength and durability.

Prep-Man
Not fair, those are Pre-Crisis Sharks. They can tangle with Galactus, if they wanted to.

Trollalala.

psycho gundam
aqua-man also has access to pre-crisis re-bar

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/impaled1kv4.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/impaled2ab7.jpg

and ollie, pre-crisis gas

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/teargasvv2.jpg

Prep-Man
lol @ PC gas.. laughing out loud

Are we using strictly V&V Despero? Because that's not the most formidable one.

-Pr-
Aquaman is pretty strong and he was just out of water, so that's easily a reasonable feat with the rebar.

As for the gas, well, I'm sure Despero still needs to breath...

Rage.Of.Olympus
World War Hulk would take V&V Despero imho.

Hulk smash.

Prep-Man
But we can use all his powers. Flame Despero can warp reality and is probably the more formidable incarnation.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Prep-Man
lol @ PC gas.. laughing out loud

Are we using strictly V&V Despero? Because that's not the most formidable one. even the old-school one was as tough as a loaf of bread dipped in water:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/fire1bb5.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/fire2pj6.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/fire3tq8.jpg

he better go psychic, a fistfight with current hulk will get his insurance policy canceled

Prep-Man
It didn't stop him, though, for someone who can tool a few top tiers at once, I like Despero's chances.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't.

Prep-Man
Why not?

-Pr-
The problem with Despero is that his physical stats are like a yo-yo. Taking them all in to account puts him below Hulk in general I think, but with JUST V&V stats? I think he has more of a chance.

Stoic
Originally posted by Prep-Man
But we can use all his powers. Flame Despero can warp reality and is probably the more formidable incarnation.

When you say flame Despero are you speaking of his use of the Flame of Pytar? If so he wouldn't be operating solely under his own power. Would he?

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Stoic
When you say flame Despero are you speaking of his use of the Flame of Pytar? If so he wouldn't be operating solely under his own power. Would he?

Never mind, this is just strictly VV Despero.

KuRuPT Thanosi
This is pretty easy question for me... If Despero's TP works on Hulk.. he can clearly win.. if it doesn't and he has to go physical... he gets stomped

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