PISless Superman vs PISless Martian Manhunter

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carver9
Who wins the majority?

PIS and CIS is off for both.

Martian_mind
Jonn.

Placidity
MM

DARTH POWER
Iv always seen MM and Supes as being the 2 most powerful Leaguers really.. If anyone is Supes equal on the League its MM. But he seems to be seriously under rated on these boards.

Placidity
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Iv always seen MM and Supes as being the 2 most powerful Leaguers really.. If anyone is Supes equal on the League its MM. But he seems to be seriously under rated on these boards.

Yeah, but in this topic there is no PIS, which may have been present in the other debates (not that I agree he would lose in a battle with PIS on). MM's versatility will nullify whatever physical advantages Supes has over him and then some.

I do agree MM is under-rated though. If he used all his powers proficiently as a genius and a veteran like himself would, he is in my opinion, one of the strongest in his tier.

carver9
Originally posted by Placidity
Yeah, but in this topic there is no PIS, which may have been present in the other debates (not that I agree he would lose in a battle with PIS on). MM's versatility will nullify whatever physical advantages Supes has over him and then some.

I do agree MM is under-rated though. If he used all his powers proficiently as a genius and a veteran like himself would, he is in my opinion, one of the strongest in his tier.

Do you consider MM a high herald?

Placidity
Originally posted by carver9
Do you consider MM a high herald?

I would rank him ahead of Superman in terms of overall power, that is, his power set is greater.

Now let me ask you this:

Since the most obvious attributes Superman has over Jonn is Speed and Strength, if Superman's was 100 for both, what would Jonn's be?

carver9
Originally posted by Placidity
I would rank him ahead of Superman in terms of overall power, that is, his power set is greater.

Now let me ask you this:

Since the most obvious attributes Superman has over Jonn is Speed and Strength, if Superman's was 100 for both, what would Jonn's be?

I don't consider MM that far away strength or speed wise than most top tiers.

If Superman and Thor scale is a 100, I would say Martian Manhunter is either a 90 or 95. It has also been stated that MM can amp his punches to match Supermans strength.

I consider him a high Herald, I just wanted to see what others thought of him.

Martian Manhunter IS underated but his appearances in comics doesn't help him.

Juntai
PIS isn't what afflicts J'onn, it's CIS. smile

Uriel005
^Basically but I'll assume you mean an all out on either. Well for New Earth I'd say Manhunter but PC I'd go with supes if you include his more obscure powers and things like superconcentration and that kryptonian meditation that blocks TP. Heatvision is a big factor as well. If Supes blast Manhunter with a blast that could melt the surface of a planet from orbit Manhunter is screwed. (hyperbole for people who are going to be sticklers for accuracy but take it for the point that it's intended to make)

So actually New Earth Supes has a chance but I think it comes down to who fries who first Supes with heatvision or MM with TP.

PC I think Supes takes it.

Also is Superman allowed to go and get those choco cookies that MM loves so much if so it's instawin for Superman.

paisapower
Superman wins,

hes clearly superior in all the powers they share and the only power the Martian has that could help is TP. That in itself is not enough, in my opinion

h1a8
Hasn't HV affected Jonn in phased form? If so then HV ftw.
Also what are Jonn's speed feats?
I'm thinking Superman will just combo him to ko before he can act.

Zack Fair
Combo to KO...the solution to all of life's problems.

Uriel005
^ forget combos Hadouken spam ftw

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by paisapower
Superman wins,

hes clearly superior in all the powers they share and the only power the Martian has that could help is TP. That in itself is not enough, in my opinion

You forgot Intangibility.. TP and Phasing can easily be 2 HUGE deal breakers. Especially when we're talking about one of the most powerful telepaths in comics, who also has enough strength and speed to go toe to toe with Supes without TP or Phasing..

Originally posted by h1a8
Hasn't HV affected Jonn in phased form? If so then HV ftw.

Jonn phased right through SBP's HV, so Superman's should'nt be any different really. But then again logic doesn't count for much in comics.

Originally posted by h1a8
Also what are Jonn's speed feats?
I'm thinking Superman will just combo him to ko before he can act.

Nah he's not the Hulk. Although probably slower than Supes, he's too fast to get blitzed IMO.

SquallX
I see this going 50/50.

MM best chances would be his telepathy, but Superman has resisted high end telepath more than once.

leonidas
frankly, without tp, i'm not sure jonn can win. supes's durability is just too great and while i think the tp could mess clark up, i'm not a 100% it would be enough given clark's showings vs tp's. mm would certainly make a fight of it, but in the end i think supes would take it. it might go something similar to clark's battle against protex...

clark 7-8/10 imo

Placidity
People forget, even IF Superman can resist Jonn putting him down with TP, he still can't touch Jonn. Jonn can still read his mind and be one step ahead of him every time, he won't get touched with his combination of mind-reading and intangibility.

JakeTheBank
J'onn

Juntai
Originally posted by Placidity
People forget, even IF Superman can resist Jonn putting him down with TP, he still can't touch Jonn. Jonn can still read his mind and be one step ahead of him every time, he won't get touched with his combination of mind-reading and intangibility. He can't read Clark's mind, enter it, or detect him if Clark doesn't want him to.

Mindset
I agree with everything Juntai has said so far.

Placidity
Originally posted by Juntai
He can't read Clark's mind, enter it, or detect him if Clark doesn't want him to.

yea k.

Harbinger
Hasn't Clark allowed MM to enter his mind in order to test whether or he could force Jonnz out?

Zack Fair
Someone posted a scan of Martian Manhunter telling Superman he can't enter his mind because it is too formidable or some shit like that.

paisapower
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
(You forgot Intangibility.. TP and Phasing can easily be 2 HUGE deal breakers. Especially when we're talking about one of the most powerful telepaths in comics, who also has enough strength and speed to go toe to toe with Supes without TP or Phasing..)




Didnt forget, Intangibility wont work so well since Supes can also go intangible via speed and has affected intangible beings with heat vision

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Juntai
He can't read Clark's mind, enter it, or detect him if Clark doesn't want him to. what if he punches him a few hundred times beforehand?

Wolverine2006
PISless Flash comes in, and kills them both. Lol just kidding, but seriously he would....anyway Supes heat vision is no bueno for MM right?

Uriel005
wasn't there some form of kryptonian meditation Clark knew or something to stop TP also Super-concentration ftw

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Someone posted a scan of Martian Manhunter telling Superman he can't enter his mind because it is too formidable or some shit like that.


The only times Jonn has had issues with Supes in regards to Tp is when he is entering Supes mind as a favour or some other entity is affecting Supes mind.

I can think of three examples of the top of my head when Jonn has messed with Supes head with no visible effort.

These threads are pointless. The logical/intelligent posters always back Jonn, while the ignorant/fanboys will always go with big blue, and you just can't change that.

Mindset
Originally posted by Martian_mind
The only times Jonn has had issues with Supes in regards to Tp is when he is entering Supes mind as a favour or some other entity is affecting Supes mind.

I can think of three examples of the top of my head when Jonn has messed with Supes head with no visible effort.

These threads are pointless. The logical/intelligent posters always back Jonn, while the ignorant/fanboys will always go with big blue, and you just can't change that. laughing out loud

Bentley
Originally posted by Martian_mind
These threads are pointless. The logical/intelligent posters always back Kang, while the ignorant/fanboys will always go with latverian dude, and you just can't change that.


True that MM, true that...

Mshinu
MM beats supes.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by paisapower



Didnt forget, Intangibility wont work so well since Supes can also go intangible via speed and has affected intangible beings with heat vision

Well SBP's HV went right through an Intangible MM, so that would suggest the Supes HV would have no effect either.

As for Supes Intangibility, how many times has he even used that?? Im guessing he cant do it with the same ease as MM.

h1a8
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well SBP's HV went right through an Intangible MM, so that would suggest the Supes HV would have no effect either.

As for Supes Intangibility, how many times has he even used that?? Im guessing he cant do it with the same ease as MM.

This is CIS off Superman, so how many times he's done it is irrelevant.
Also, he can do it probably with greater ease (or speed) than MM. He became intangible almost instantaneously against ultra fast attacks of DD.

Lord Feron
MM, He could go toe to toe with Supes physically and it won't be easy for supes to keep his head in the fight while he is being mentally assaulted at the same time.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by psycho gundam
what if he punches him a few hundred times beforehand? Then he can enter his head through his face.

leonidas
has mm ever used tp while phased? has he ever used tp while physically hammering away at someone? seems he MUST have, but most times i recall him really going hardcore tp, he's off in the distance, or out of the battle, concentrating on his tp as opposed to multi-tasking with it. i'm sure if someone reminds me, i'll recall several times it happened, but off-hand i can't really think of any times.

even if he DID use tp, it seems to me, given their past showings, that it could stagger jonn as easily as it could clark. the force of being thrown out of supes' head could just as easily leave jonn open to supes's attacks.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
has mm ever used tp while phased? has he ever used tp while physically hammering away at someone? seems he MUST have, but most times i recall him really going hardcore tp, he's off in the distance, or out of the battle, concentrating on his tp as opposed to multi-tasking with it. i'm sure if someone reminds me, i'll recall several times it happened, but off-hand i can't really think of any times.

even if he DID use tp, it seems to me, given their past showings, that it could stagger jonn as easily as it could clark. the force of being thrown out of supes' head could just as easily leave jonn open to supes's attacks. This sounds reasonable. Too reasonable. Stop it. crackers

I also think that J'onn could use less overt telepathy. I agree outright controlling Superman is a risky proposition, but more subtle uses (like illusions) might be less prone to feedback.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by h1a8
This is CIS off Superman, so how many times he's done it is irrelevant.

I think it does. If most writers dnt write him that way, and he's only ever done it once or twice in his history, then I think we can question if its still part of his current powerset.

Mindset
Originally posted by h1a8
This is CIS off Superman, so how many times he's done it is irrelevant.
Also, he can do it probably with greater ease (or speed) than MM. He became intangible almost instantaneously against ultra fast attacks of DD. Pis off.

shokosugi
Supes 10/10 via blitz

Superherovandal
MM without PIS and CIS is basically Fernus and we've all seen what he did to the JL all by himself. MM would win at least 7/10 if not more. He can always phase Supes into a solid object. even if it doesn't outright kill him it'll slow him down alot enough for him to use his other powers.

BattleMage
Originally posted by shokosugi
Supes 10/10 via blitz laughing out loud

BattleMage
MM 6/10

These threads are pointless. The logical/intelligent posters always back Jonn, while the ignorant/fanboys will always go with big blue, and you just can't change that.

h1a8
If Superman lands the first blow then he wins by the combo to ko principle. I believe Superman is fast enough to pop MM before he can act.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by shokosugi
Supes 10/10 via blitz

I agree with Shoko.

Always.

paisapower
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well SBP's HV went right through an Intangible MM, so that would suggest the Supes HV would have no effect either.

As for Supes Intangibility, how many times has he even used that?? Im guessing he cant do it with the same ease as MM.


SBP is not Supes and has never used his HV with his finess (internal HV, 360 HV, HV heart massages, repairing the fabric of space, tagging intangible beings and the list goes on)

I could actually see Supes using his speed to match MM intangibility frequency (like Flash did)and reversing it in order to then hammer him

Uriel005
Originally posted by paisapower
SBP is not Supes and has never used his HV with his finess (internal HV, 360 HV, HV heart massages, repairing the fabric of space, tagging intangible beings and the list goes on)

I could actually see Supes using his speed to match MM intangibility frequency (like Flash did)and reversing it in order to then hammer him That's more PC supes though. I said it before PC with his esoteric powers Supes definitely has a great deal more to bring to the table considering I'm assuming OP meant CIS off all/most powers included. I think MM would win on general tendency now adays but CIS off Fernus vs a ruthless Supes who'd sundip off the bat??? CIS off Supes is definitely one of the heaviest hitters in existence and I mean that more than physically but his ability to solve problems as well and Fernus is not the toughest thing Superman could ever face or has faced. Besides Supes just whips up some of those chocolate cookies MM can't resist and its an instawin.

Juntai
Originally posted by Uriel005
That's more PC supes though. I said it before PC with his esoteric powers Supes definitely has a great deal more to bring to the table considering I'm assuming OP meant CIS off all/most powers included. I think MM would win on general tendency now adays but CIS off Fernus vs a ruthless Supes who'd sundip off the bat??? CIS off Supes is definitely one of the heaviest hitters in existence and I mean that more than physically but his ability to solve problems as well and Fernus is not the toughest thing Superman could ever face or has faced. Besides Supes just whips up some of those chocolate cookies MM can't resist and its an instawin. Uhm... those were all post crisis feats of heat vision, and actually, pretty much all in the last decade. wink

Juntai
Originally posted by Martian_mind
The only times Jonn has had issues with Supes in regards to Tp is when he is entering Supes mind as a favour or some other entity is affecting Supes mind.

I can think of three examples of the top of my head when Jonn has messed with Supes head with no visible effort.

These threads are pointless. The logical/intelligent posters always back Jonn, while the ignorant/fanboys will always go with big blue, and you just can't change that. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Because J'onn himself has admitted it. We have on panel evidence of Superman throwing J'onn out of his mind, just to prove he can. And just as well- has thrown J'onn through a loop merely contacting his mind. We also have other comparisons, like Aquaman and J'onn getting Dominated by Despero rather easily, at the same time, in mental combat. He was unable to do the same to Clark.

Philosophía
Yeah..



...about that...



And last, but not least..

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_mmvibrationreversal.jpg

Sorry, Martian Mind, but you can eat a dick.

ha-som

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_mmnosuperman.jpg

DARTH POWER

Martian_mind
It's amusing how much those scans fail to prove Jonn can't affect Superman's mind. So Superman can hide himself from a worldwide scan? Means dick all as it's a completely different ballgame when Jonn and he are one on one

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/image-12.jpg

Just to let you know, that scan means that the mindraping of the entire villian community and the punking of Firestorm was the work of Jonn, not fernus.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/image-11.jpg

Which means that this incident, which is followed by Superman getting pissy at Jonn for reading his mind (I do not have the second page scanned, dunno why, don't care enough to do it.) shows Jonn can waltz in there calm as he pleases.While mindraping the rest of the planet. I could post scans of how a dying Jonn who had been beaten and starved for weeks sent Superman screaming from the sky half a world away during final crisis. Or How Jonn wiped Superman's mind against his wishes during their second round with the White Martians, but alas it's past midnight here and I know all you'll do is throw up excuses and try to act superior.

The other showing is exactly what I referenced, Jonn does a friendly probe,WHICH HE EVEN SAYS ALLOWED HIM TO GET SOMEWHERE, and is repulsed. Big deal. Let's not forget:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Martian%20Manhunter/img-153.jpg

Jonn was constantly mindraping Prometheus at the time as well. Oh, and he was also keeping the Key in a telepathic Coma at the same time.

The Despero showing is idiotic. Superman is last standing because he fought Despero last, simple as that. If you reread the comic you will find that every possession goes panel of Despero looking at victim, followed by panel of victim conquered by Despero. Superman never hits stage 2 because someone else always saves his spandex covered ass. Hammond means dick all too as well. In Brynes run on JLA Superman is left as a telepathic slave to a girl that both Batman and Jonn resist. On Rann Jonn is the only one able to block out the telepathic mindprobes.

I'll gladly eat a dick the day you know what you're talking about. Which won't be for a while I assume. Anyone who thinks a CISless, PIS less Jonn can't mindrape the man of steel is a fanboy or retarded, you people have no middle ground.

Except Carver when it comes to Hulk. He is both.

Harbinger
Shots fired.

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/31808561/Michael+Jackson+Jackson_popcorn.gif

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Harbinger
Shots fired.

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/31808561/Michael+Jackson+Jackson_popcorn.gif

Curse you and your irresistibly funky beats.

Bentley
Tell them Martian Mind evil face

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I'll gladly eat a dick the day you know what you're talking about. Which won't be for a while I assume. Anyone who thinks a CISless, PIS less Jonn can't mindrape the man of steel is a fanboy or retarded, you people have no middle ground.

laughing out loud thumb up

DARTH POWER
People are forgetting one of MM's greatest abilities: Shapeshifting. Its very difficult to physically beat down a shapeshifter, especially one almost as strong and fast as Supes.

And theres no way Supes is gna beat MM at the Intangibility game. And cant he also increase his density to virtual invulnerability??

Oh and since SBP's HV could not effect MM's Intangible form Im not believing Supes can until we at least see some clear evidence specific to MM, or at least to another Martian. And besides MM could counter HV with his own Martian Vision.

Superherovandal
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
People are forgetting one of MM's greatest abilities: Shapeshifting. Its very difficult to physically beat down a shapeshifter, especially one almost as strong and fast as Supes.

And theres no way Supes is gna beat MM at the Intangibility game. And cant he also increase his density to virtual invulnerability??

Oh and since SBP's HV could not effect MM's Intangible form Im not believing Supes can until we at least see some clear evidence specific to MM, or at least to another Martian. And besides MM could counter HV with his own Martian Vision. Yeah as far as im concerned SBP's hv is stronger. in SC war he pierced right through Supes like butter with it and he was weakening because he lost his solar converter suit.

Philosophía
post.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Martian_mind
It's amusing how much those scans fail to prove Jonn can't affect Superman's mind. I never said 'can't affect'. But there won't be any noticeable effect in a battle, when Superman displays better telepathic resistance in two conclusive examples (Hammond and Despero), and J'onn trying to do just a gentle probe has him spasming "H'ronmeer...!" like a little ***** on the floor.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
So Superman can hide himself from a worldwide scan? Means dick all as it's a completely different ballgame when Jonn and he are one on one laughing out loud Hypocrisy ftw. You say that this isn't relevant since it hasn't taken place in a battle, but then bring up Final Crisis, where Superman was minding his own bussiness and got blasted out of the sky.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Just to let you know, that scan means that the mindraping of the entire villian community and the punking of Firestorm was the work of Jonn, not fernus. Man, him mind-raping a gang of unsuspecting villains and then sucker-attacking Firestorm is really something you should be proud of, as pertaining to a battle with Superman.

That's almost as good as the entire community of heroes, J'onn included, telepathically controlled by Hammond, only Superman being completely unaffected, going where the pull is even more powerfull and then dismantling it while, still, unaffected.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/hammondtelepathy1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/hammondtelepathy2.jpg

..

laughing out loud

I was joking, you see. They're not even close in relevance.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Which means that this incident, which is followed by Superman getting pissy at Jonn for reading his mind A showing where an unsuspecting Superman has his mind read by J'onn? Unfathomable. I guess this will greatly help him in battle.

"And now, Superman is thinking of punching my hands off. And he does. By H'ronmeer's cock, he is picking my hands and bashing my head with them. What's he doing? Where does that leg of mine go? No! NOO!!".

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Jonn was constantly mindraping Prometheus at the time as well. Are you suggesting that keeping a weakened, beaten human Prometheus mind on a loop takes some kind of huge part of his concentration or power? laughing out loud

Martian_Mind, I have to say, you're shitting on J'onn's formidability more than I'd want you to.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
The Despero showing is idiotic. Superman is last standing because he fought Despero last, simple as that. If you reread the comic you will find that every possession goes panel of Despero looking at victim, followed by panel of victim conquered by Despero. Superman never hits stage 2 because someone else always saves his spandex covered ass. Lawlz @ the bullshit. Superman never hit stage two because he has a formidable mind, like Despero even points out. And it's not for the lack of trying, on the part of Despero. Meanwhile, J'onn went down like a horse thief, eventough he had another telepath helping him, Aquaman.


Originally posted by Martian_mind
Hammond means dick all too as well. Supreme rebuttal!

Originally posted by Martian_mind
In Brynes run on JLA Superman is left as a telepathic slave to a girl that both Batman and Jonn resist. You mean the same arc where Wonder Woman was said to be equal in 'raw' power to Superman? Where Superman saw a little girl, and he had no ideea he was in a fight with her? Where John, Batman were portrayed as having more willpower than him? Where even Faith was said to have been able to resist it? John Byrne? *****, please. Besides, it's not like J'onn was so formidable against her, no?

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnfail1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnfail2.jpg

J'onn is terrible at this. laughing out loud

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I'll gladly eat a dick Finally, something that is in accordance with reality.

Also, stop with the oversized images.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/jonnconsciousness1.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/jonnconsciousness2.jpg

ok? smile

Since we started, let's continue having some fun, at J'onn's expense.

Lmao, Stewart treats him like a little kid, who should stay in the bubble to not get hurt as the grown ups are fighting.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_mmstewardowning.jpg

Superman?
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesjohnshield1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesjohnshield2.jpg

Tomorrow: J'onn vs Preus. J'onn vs Breach. Why is J'onn also known as the boxing bag and more, revealed!

Philosophía
Just kidding, they will be posted now. Just the way Martian Mind likes them, with big, image sized pages.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/preusjonnlulz1.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/preusjonnlulz2.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/preusjonnlulz3.jpg

crylaugh Some Superman wannabe beats his ass with the equivalent of Heat Vision in a few moves.

JakeTheBank
Why was his heat vision/ocular blast purple?

Philosophía
J'onn against goes down like hero #37 fighting Darkseid, only for Superman to save him.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonntehbitch1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonntehbitch2.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonntehbitch3.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonntehbitch4.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonntehbitch5.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonntehbitch6.jpg

"I am...coalescing" crylaugh

It's no wonder Superman gives him "It's okay, J'onn, you're the best from the league!" type of talk, otherwise he'd break down and cry from how terrible of a hero he is, lulz.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Lmao.

Poor John. Who has the Superman Blue/Angel and Doomsday Rex/Martian Manhunter scans? The nails in the coffin imo.

Sorry MM. Philo is still an insufferable butt pirate though.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Who has the Superman Blue/Angel and Doomsday Rex/Martian Manhunter scans? http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonnasmodellmao1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonnasmodellmao2.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/jonnasmodellmao3.jpg

The Doomsday one I posted on the other page.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/mmnosuperman.jpg

Mindset
Superman is such a self righteous dick.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Mindset
Superman is such a self righteous dick. Finally a reasonable post here.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lmao.

Sorry MM. Philo is still an insufferable butt pirate though. I'm just having some fun giving Martian Mind an aneurysm, since none of those showings matter any longer, and he'll no doubt get respect in the upcoming Stormwatch series.

Omega Vision
Philo and MM should BZ this.

Though I don't know how much there's left to talk about.

Mindset
Why is MM fapping off DD?

Philosophía
Originally posted by Mindset
Why is MM fapping off DD? He's trying to buy time until Superman comes in to save him.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I can think of three examples of the top of my head when Jonn has messed with Supes head with no visible effort. I'd like to see the scans of that.

EDIT: The 2 you only mentioned.

Juntai
You also realize that Clark lets J'onn into his mind because, you know, they're team-mates- and communicate telepathically with eachother right? Him scanning a couple of surface thoughts is vastly different than Clark actively resisting him.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Parmaniac
I'd like to see the scans of that.

EDIT: The 2 you only mentioned. The Final Crisis and White Martian ones?

Parmaniac

Philosophía
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Yeah unless you already posted them and I just missed them. I can't recall MM going into Supes mind in the white martian story and I haven't finished FC. In Final Crisis, when J'onn dies, he sends his 'history' to his colleagues, and they transcribe it after they fall asleep. It wasn't an attack or anything like that, just him sending his memories to his friends.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories1.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories2.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories3.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories4.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories5.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories6.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories7.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories8.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_jonnmemories9.jpg

(I posted all the sequence because it's quite awesome)

In the second White Martians story, he didn't 'wipe Superman's mind' so much that he blocked the discussed information of their plan that could only be accessed at a later point in time, when it was relevant so that the other martians wouldn't know of their plan (J'onn engages the Martians with the illusions of the JLA being there, while they're actually pulling the moon in the Earth's atmosphere in order to weaken the martians from the fire, as I'm sure you remember)

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/th_memoryblock.jpg

MMind has a tendency to exagerate feats.

carver9
Isnt Superman Blue more powerful than your average Superman?

Parmaniac
Thanks for the scans.

I agree that the death was pretty awesome and had substance and not just another "hey look he's dead" moment.

Martian_mind
That White martian scan invalidates all of Philo's fanboyish rant, so I'm content.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Martian_mind
That White martian scan invalidates all of Philo's fanboyish rant, so I'm content. I love you, too. Seriously though, I went through all this effort to get you mad, and you shrugg it off?

Maybe I shouldn't have said all of this doesn't matter anymore.

Martian_mind

Superherovandal
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I pointed out the futility of this thread a while back son. I feel no rage, only a bizarre mixture of amusement and pity if you believe what you posted, or vague admiration for your level of dedication if you were trolling. Seriously everybody that says that MM can't control or mindrape Supes needs to realize that it kinda goes against his nature to do such things. WHen Fernus took over besides not being not weak to fire there was no real change in powerset or abilities. If MM was evil and actively trying to be evil he'd basically be Fernus. MM is seriously underrated on these forums. He maynot be quite as physically strong but he more than makes up for that with shapeshifting, hf, density, phase shifting, and telepathy.

OneDumbG0
If there's one thing we can draw from this thread, it's that Maxwell Lord is baller. uhuh

paisapower
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If there's one thing we can draw from this thread, it's that Maxwell Lord is baller. uhuh


And that Superman really is head and shoulders over MM

http://

http://

-Pr-
Superman. It'll be close for a while, but Superman is always going to have an edge that J'onn just won't topple imo.

Mindset
Pfft, fanboy.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Mindset
Pfft, fanboy.

Even if I was, it wouldn't make me wrong. biscuits

paisapower
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman. It'll be close for a while, but Superman is always going to have an edge that J'onn just won't topple imo.


WORD !

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman. It'll be close for a while, but Superman is always going to have an edge that J'onn just won't topple imo. Telepathic feedback... ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Telepathic feedback... ?

Sure, that too.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by carver9
Isnt Superman Blue more powerful than your average Superman?
Not at all.

IIRC he was a good deal weaker and all he was said to have was a slight speed boost and radio senses instead of super hearing.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
Sure, that too. mhmm

-Pr-
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not at all.

IIRC he was a good deal weaker and all he was said to have was a slight speed boost and radio senses instead of super hearing.

iirc it was that he was more powerful than the superman that came before him, but superman got an amp afterwards that made him more powerful than the previous version (that being the blue one).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
mhmm

strength, speed (travelling, movement, perception), damage soak (in the sense that it takes more to ko him usually than it does j'onn).

sure, jonn is close to him in some cases, and has his own abilities that set him apart, but i just think kal can overcome jonn more readily than the other way around.

psycho gundam
wait a sec, i need some clarification on this but isn't the manhunter essentially amorphous and thus immune to physical damage when PIS/CIP/CIS is tossed out? even apocalypse exhibited this in his career, even in a near death state with PIS/CIP/CIS being factors within comics.

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
wait a sec, i need some clarification on this but isn't the manhunter essentially amorphous and thus immune to physical damage when PIS/CIP/CIS is tossed out? even apocalypse exhibited this in his career, even in a near death state with PIS/CIP/CIS being factors within comics.

and yet J'onn has been hurt on many occasions. Unless you want to toss out every occurence of that.

Besides, when he takes on a human-ish form, I see no reason why he wouldn't be that way internally too (if much denser). I mean, he's had sex with human women, so he must at least some of the time take on human (though more powerful obviously) characteristics biologically.

but yeah, if i was him i'd never go in to a fight without being completely malleable.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
strength, speed (travelling, movement, perception), damage soak (in the sense that it takes more to ko him usually than it does j'onn).

sure, jonn is close to him in some cases, and has his own abilities that set him apart, but i just think kal can overcome jonn more readily than the other way around. I see him close to matching Superman in each of those areas (closer than you) except for traveling speed I guess and being able to use his malleable durability to blunt a great deal of damage. Superman can certainly dig deeper, but it seems more like a Buu vs Goku dynamic in terms of who can soak up more damage.

Harbinger
You're gonna set off carver's decoder ring by mentioning DBZ.

Also:



When? I don't remember this.

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I see him close to matching Superman in each of those areas (closer than you) except for traveling speed I guess and being able to use his malleable durability to blunt a great deal of damage. Superman can certainly dig deeper, but it seems more like a Buu vs Goku dynamic in terms of who can soak up more damage.

I don't watch Dragonball, so have no idea what that means.

Originally posted by Harbinger
You're gonna set off carver's decoder ring by mentioning DBZ.

Also:



When? I don't remember this.

With Scorch. IIRC it was heavily implied.

Harbinger
.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't watch Dragonball, so have no idea what that means. essentially, if you've ever made anything with dough, you'd realize how much of a pain it would be fight something made of the stuff that also possesses all the same powers you have.

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
essentially, if you've ever made anything with dough, you'd realize how much of a pain it would be fight something made of the stuff that also possesses all the same powers you have.

Ah.

I addressed that in an earlier post, then.

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