Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

So the gamma beast of current day goes up against two herald level beings. Both sides are blood lusted but Surfer DOESN'T get to energy drain or matter manipulate Hulk. Fight to the death. How does Hulk 634 fair?

Surfer points at him, and Hulk ends up in the sun

SS n BRB hb em.

What those guys said.

Hulk. I don't think the Surfer can even drain him anymore, didn't Armageddon try that and fail? I'm not too sure matter manip would even work, we all saw how Grey Hulk recovered from Grey Gargoyle "stoning" him.

Short of an instant BFR by Surfer or BRB, they die.

Current Hulk>War Hulk>WWH>Savage Hulk >Thor>Silver surfer>BRB

hulk should spite

Hulk wins.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Current Hulk>War Hulk>WWH>Savage Hulk >Thor>Silver surfer>BRB

hulk should spite How do you remember to breath?

Hulk curbs them.

Beta Ray Bill drowns Hulk in a pool of his own blood, while from over Bill's shoulder, the Silver Surfer musters up a speech about how life is sacred and should be appreciated.

beta ray bill's fighting style will only ensure hulk goes nuclear on their asses, and surfer's anti-hulk trump card is removed.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Beta Ray Bill drowns Hulk in a pool of his own blood, while from over Bill's shoulder, the Silver Surfer musters up a speech about how life is sacred and should be appreciated. Bill has no chance against this all out Hulk. I don't think Hulk curbs them personally but one on one against Bill Hulk would rearrange his face.

that might be beneficial actually

Nah. Bill chucks Hulk into the sun, while Surfer does this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eVsEXMhjaRI/SFudjptO82I/AAAAAAAAA9A/mwp_LIfQK68/s320/CryingIndian.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
that might be beneficial actually Give Hulk a real competitor here like Drake from Blade.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Give Hulk a real competitor here like Drake from Blade. smh

==============

surfer didn't want seconds after the first punch

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_hulksurfer2.jpg

Shit, why not throw in Jared Nomak, too?

Originally posted by Harbinger
Shit, why not throw in Jared Nomak, too? Drake doesn't need a homeless bum in a hoody he's got this.

nomak solos

If for no other reason than Blade: Trinity sucking pure, unadulterated ass.

Originally posted by Harbinger
If for no other reason than Blade: Trinity sucking pure, unadulterated ass. Originally posted by Eternal Idol
quan does this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eVsEXMhjaRI/SFudjptO82I/AAAAAAAAA9A/mwp_LIfQK68/s320/CryingIndian.jpg

Originally posted by Harbinger
If for no other reason than Blade: Trinity sucking pure, unadulterated ass. Pr ?

Surfer > any Hulk > Thor > Surfer... Canon

He would no sell most of there attacks like he did with pretty much everyone he fought during the arc.


Hulk wins easily

Hulk.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
He would no sell most of there attacks like he did with pretty much everyone he fought during the arc.


Hulk wins easily

How come? Which of those guys were comparable to bill and surfer?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
How come? Which of those guys were comparable to bill and surfer?

Armageddon since he did stomp Surfer and was draining him dry.

Originally posted by carver9
Armageddon since he did stomp Surfer and was draining him dry.

It's an all new supposedly more powerful Surfer remember?

Originally posted by dmills
It's an all new supposedly more powerful Surfer remember?

And it was an all new amped Armageddon that got 2 paneled by a holding back Hulk. Then we have Armageddon not being able to even be around Hulk without turning to dust.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901484/Incredible_Hulks_635_005.jpg.html

Armageddon running through Surfer and Merged Hulk the way he did puts him at elite top tier and Hulk crushed his head like he was stepping on a random human.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
How come? Which of those guys were comparable to bill and surfer?
Arm'Cheddon was killing the Merged Hulk and Silver Surfer at the same time with his cosmic blasts. Hulk in #634 was hit with this same blast aswell as attacks from Wendigo and Bi Beast who are Savage Hulk level foes and he didn't even acknowledge them.

Just to reiterate, he didn't just tank this attack, he was completely oblivious to their combined assault as if they were non-existent. This was also before he unleashed his full power.

Surfer puts him in his board.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Arm'Cheddon was killing the Merged Hulk and Silver Surfer at the same time with his cosmic blasts. Hulk in #634 was hit with this same blast aswell as attacks from Wendigo and Bi Beast who are Savage Hulk level foes and he didn't even acknowledge them.

Just to reiterate, he didn't just tank this attack, he was completely oblivious to their combined assault as if they were non-existent. This was also before he unleashed his full power.

Scans?

Originally posted by dmills
Surfer > any Hulk > Thor > Surfer... Canon

Rulk is a Hulk, and Rulk snapped him.

Hulk wins this btw.

Originally posted by dmills
Scans? I'll try to re-post from my phone, but Im pretty sure they're in one of the few arm'cheddon threads

Originally posted by psycho gundam
I'll try to re-post from my phone, but Im pretty sure they're in one of the few arm'cheddon threads

I'll take your word for it. Is what Carver described in proper context?

Originally posted by Stoic
Rulk is a Hulk, and Rulk snapped him.

Hulk wins this btw.

I was being facetious in referencing the hilarious history of Surfer easily beating Hulk, Hulk beating Thor and Thor beating Surfer.

^ Hard to find a more illustrative example of why ABC logic doesn't work.

Surfer aside, Bill has endured planet-busting forces, supernovas, black holes, etc. completely unscathed- so sans a purely physical melee, it's hard to imagine Hulk (even at current levels) putting him down for any length of time. We've also seen a 'bloodlusted' Bill wreck B&T Thor (the same guy who two-shotted Surfer.) Bill has also physically busted planet(oids) all by his lonesome, something Hulk has never done by himself.
ermmhappy


Anywho, team wins imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Surfer aside, Bill has endured planet-busting forces, supernovas, black holes, etc. completely unscathed- so sans a purely physical melee, it's hard to imagine Hulk (even at current levels) putting him down for any length of time. We've also seen a 'bloodlusted' Bill wreck B&T Thor (the same guy who two-shotted Surfer.) Bill has also physically busted planet(oids) all by his lonesome, something Hulk has never done by himself.
ermmhappy


Anywho, team wins imo.

Grey Hulk busted a planet twice the size of Earth.

Originally posted by carver9
Grey Hulk busted a planet twice the size of Earth. Asteroid, with the help of super springs

Originally posted by carver9
Grey Hulk busted a planet twice the size of Earth. a.) T'was an asteroid.
b.) Only someone as delusional as yourself would try to use that ridiculous instance as admissible 'Hulk-proof'. Christ, if Joe Fixit is a planet-buster+, then Thing must be a planet-buster++ (he beat the bejesus out of Joe, after all.)

Idiocy like that makes me laugh, most enthusiastically. ermmnone

Originally posted by dmills
I was being facetious in referencing the hilarious history of Surfer easily beating Hulk, Hulk beating Thor and Thor beating Surfer.

I know I'm being fanboyish but Hulk doesn't have a history of beating Thor. They do however history of going toe to toe for extended periods of time. Even when Thor fights purely like a brick. If Surfer approached Hulk in the same manner as Thor, he'd get wrecked, but if Thor approached Hulk in the same manner as Surfer he'd wreck the Green retard.

Thor > Surfer > Hulk >/= Thor fighting like a brick

That's speaking historically. Since World War Hulk, Hulk has seen a rise in power much to the disappointment of many. Hulk fans have grown insufferable lately.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know I'm being fanboyish but Hulk doesn't have a history of beating Thor. They do however history of going toe to toe for extended periods of time. Even when Thor fights purely like a brick. If Surfer approached Hulk in the same manner as Thor, he'd get wrecked, but if Thor approached Hulk in the same manner as Surfer he'd wreck the Green retard.

Thor > Surfer > Hulk >/= Thor fighting like a brick

That's speaking historically. Since World War Hulk, Hulk has seen a rise in power much to the disappointment of many. Hulk fans have grown insufferable lately. Meh, Surfer's KO'ed Hulk twice with common attacks, and Hulk never actually really hurt Surfer until Planet Hulk...

It's just one of those things Rage. The type of attacks Surfer's used to KO Hulk show that if he went at it like Thor does, he'd leave Hulk as a smoldering mess. Just one of those things

Surfer can casually dismiss Hulk as easily as he'd like, but he'll never easily beat Thor, and apparently never without outside shit beat him period

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) T'was an asteroid.
b.) Only someone as delusional as yourself would try to use that ridiculous instance as admissible 'Hulk-proof'. Christ, if Joe Fixit is a planet-buster+, then Thing must be a planet-buster++ (he beat the bejesus out of Joe, after all.)

Idiocy like that makes me laugh, most enthusiastically. ermmnone

If it makes you feel better, Grey Hulk had no definable limit similar to Savage Hulk. It was simply much harder for him to reacher higher levels of power. His anger wasn't easily triggered and wasn't as emotional as the other incarnations.

It's been a while since I read the story but if it was some random writer, I'm betting he just wanted an Elite strong men who could realistically operate on that level and the Hulk fits the bill.

For the record, an amped Thing took down Grey Hulk, and Grey Hulk managed a win in the second round.

I'm not saying it made a lot of sense, Hulk wasn't extremely angry, but I wouldn't put in the Thor/Bullet, Surfer/Panther category. At least personally.

hulk wins

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Meh, Surfer's KO'ed Hulk twice with common attacks, and Hulk never actually really hurt Surfer until Planet Hulk...

It's just one of those things Rage. The type of attacks Surfer's used to KO Hulk show that if he went at it like Thor does, he'd leave Hulk as a smoldering mess. Just one of those things

Surfer can casually dismiss Hulk as easily as he'd like, but he'll never easily beat Thor, and apparently never without outside shit beat him period

Do you have access to scans? I haven't reviewed there fights in some time.

From what I remember though, I didn't get the impression that Surfer would take out the Hulk hand to hand. Their respective history would suggest to the opposite to me. I do remember Surfer coating himself in Power to protect himself from Hulk's blows or something similar but that's about the extent of it.

For the record, Planet Hulk isn't the only time Hulk has come out looking good against the Surfer. I remember there was a scene in the Defenders where Hulk's power broke a sphere that the Surfer's Power Cosmic could not or whatever.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Meh, Surfer's KO'ed Hulk twice with common attacks, and Hulk never actually really hurt Surfer until Planet Hulk...

It's just one of those things Rage. The type of attacks Surfer's used to KO Hulk show that if he went at it like Thor does, he'd leave Hulk as a smoldering mess. Just one of those things

Surfer can casually dismiss Hulk as easily as he'd like, but he'll never easily beat Thor, and apparently never without outside shit beat him period

And even in Planet Hulk, the Surfer showed that even without PC he can still battle Banner and his team and bring it to him physically. I don't get why blasters like Surfer get dissed strength wise. That dude recently stopped Thor's strike mid swing for goodness sake. What's he got to do for peeps to realize he's pretty damn strong too.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you have access to scans? I haven't reviewed there fights in some time.

I've personally never gotten the impression Surfer would take out the Hulk hand to hand. Their respective history would suggest to the opposite to me.

For the record, Planet Hulk isn't the only time Hulk has come out looking good against the Surfer. I remember there was a scene in the Defenders where Hulk's power broke a sphere that the Surfer's Power Cosmic could not or whatever. I'll look, but off the top of my head, when he took Hulk's best blow to no effect, and boarded him in the head, and when he blasted him and IIRC barely hit that KO'ed Hulk.

He'd do well there, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if he went toe to toe with Hulk and used common attacks that he uses, he would crush Hulk.

Meh, that's not against each other though. Before Planet Hulk, Hulk never actually hurt Surfer at all from what I remember. And it's not like he hasn't landed hits. I mean, the guy was stomping on Surfer's head to no effect before Surfer raised a field.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If it makes you feel better, Grey Hulk had no definable limit similar to Savage Hulk. It was simply much harder for him to reacher higher levels of power. His anger wasn't easily triggered and wasn't as emotional as the other incarnations.

It's been a while since I read the story but if it was some random writer, I'm betting he just wanted an Elite strong men who could realistically operate on that level and the Hulk fits the bill.

For the record, an amped Thing took down Grey Hulk, and Grey Hulk managed a win in the second round.

I'm not saying it made a lot of sense, Hulk wasn't extremely angry, but I wouldn't put in the Thor/Bullet, Surfer/Panther category. At least personally. Excuses. My only point is that you'd be the literal definition of an idiot to believe Joe is a legitimate planet-buster+. Pineapple Thing physically dominated him in a purely h2h match- does that mean Thing is a planet-buster++ by proxy? Phuck no.

...And Joe only 'beat' Thing in their second round by utilizing the battlefield to gain the element of surprise- as he knew he was no match for Thing in a h2h melee.

iirc, grey hulk was aimed at a particular weakspot of the asteroid.

not that i think it would reduce the feat enough to make it less than planet busting in magnitude...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I'll look, but off the top of my head, when he took Hulk's best blow to no effect, and boarded him in the back of the head, and when he blasted him and IIRC barely hit that KO'ed Hulk.

He'd do well there, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if he went toe to toe with Hulk and used common attacks that he uses, he would crush Hulk.

Meh, that's not against each other though. Before Planet Hulk, Hulk never actually hurt Surfer at all from what I remember. And it's not like he hasn't landed hits.

That was their very first fight right? That's the only time I remember him knocking Hulk out straight up. Took him out with the board I believe after Hulk struck him. I haven't read their old school battles some time so I can't get too specific.

I don't know how true that is. It's definitely not the case for the last decade or two.

That's not the only time I recall Hulk coming off as impressive against Surfer. IIRC, Surfer/Namor couldn't do much during the Order until he calmed down or something similar.

Anyways, my main point is that Hulk doesn't have a history of beating Thor. And that if Surfer tried to go punch for punch with the Hulk, he wouldn't come out on top. He's invulnerability will keep him in the game similar to his battle with the dying Heroes Reborn Hulk but he's simply not winning.

Edit: Found these scans:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3982/story2page02eq7.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4646/story2page03dn9.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That was their very first fight right? That's the only time I remember him knocking Hulk out straight up. I haven't read their old school battles some time so I can't get too specific.

I don't know how true that is. It's definitely not the case for the last decade or two.

That's not the only time I recall Hulk coming off as impressive against Surfer. IIRC, Surfer/Namor couldn't do squat during the Order until he calmed down or something similar.

Anyways, my main point is that Hulk doesn't have a history of beating Thor. Another point I was trying to make is that if Surfer tried to go punch for punch with the Hulk, he'd go down. He's invulnerability will keep him in the game similar to his battle with the dying Heroes Reborn Hulk but he'd go down. A couple fights from them:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk00.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk01.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk02.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk03.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk1.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk3.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk4.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk5.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/TheIncredibleHulkv2-250-19.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/TheIncredibleHulkv2-250-32.jpg

All he did was throw around Namor and Surfer, because they tried to hold him down.

Oh I realize. I was one of the first people who posted all of their fights on this forum.
Oh, I'm not saying he'd beat Hulk in a fisticuff matchup, but he would utterly obliterate him if he used his blasts and board while he wasn't holding back

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
A couple fights from them:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk00.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk01.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk02.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk03.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk1.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk3.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk4.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk5.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/TheIncredibleHulkv2-250-19.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/TheIncredibleHulkv2-250-32.jpg

Thanks for the scan. I didn't remember the second knock out, weird. Although that fight showed that even back then Hulk could hurt Surfer with a punch.

I'd also like to point out that Surfer was amped in that last scan before someone runs wild with it.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
All he did was throw around Namor and Surfer, because they tried to hold him down.

I don't remember the specifics but I do remember being impressed. IIRC he came off stronger if nothing else.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh, I'm not saying he'd beat Hulk in a fisticuff matchup, but he would utterly obliterate him if he used his blasts and board.

He'd definitely take the majority but Hulk has reached a point where he'd stand up to Surfer's blasts for extended periods, even if it was modern day Savage or whatever.

Do you have the battle with the dying Bannerless Hulk? They both come out looking good. Banner stands up to Surfer's attacks and vise versa.

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) T'was an asteroid.
b.) Only someone as delusional as yourself would try to use that ridiculous instance as admissible 'Hulk-proof'. Christ, if Joe Fixit is a planet-buster+, then Thing must be a planet-buster++ (he beat the bejesus out of Joe, after all.)

Idiocy like that makes me laugh, most enthusiastically. ermmnone Just because someone busted up a planet that doesn't translate into stomping non planet busters. In all these years I'd have hoped you'd have figured out feats aren't the end all be all comparisons are. Hulk is simply beyond them. The put up a good fight but the guy will stomp a mudhole through them once he gets a hold of them. Bill got worked by the Surfer himself while holding back.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thanks for the scan. I didn't remember the second knock out, weird. Although that fight showed that even back then Hulk could hurt Surfer with a punch.

I'd also like to point out that Surfer was amped in that last scan before someone runs wild with it.



I don't remember the specifics but I do remember being impressed. IIRC he came off stronger if nothing else.



He'd definitely take the majority but Hulk has reached a point where he'd stand up to Surfer's blasts for extended periods, even if it was modern day Savage or whatever.

Do you have the battle with the dying Bannerless Hulk? They both come out looking good. Banner stands up to Surfer's attacks and vise versa. Not really. He didn't do much to Surfer except move his head or body.

Ya, it says it in the scan. It was just the only part of the fight I had in my photobucket

He was def stronger than both. Hulk has thrown around Surfer a couple times, he's just never really hurt him

Surfer not holding back like he always had against Hulk would likely one shot him... especially with the way he's written now. Surfer against say WWH though would have to exert some force

Probably, but it would be buried in my photobucket even worse than those scans were. The only significant attacks Surfer used were the board trick that severely hurt Hulk, and draining him that he cut off so he wouldn't kill him, and that happened in the first half. Second half was pretty much Surfer doing nothing, and Hulk not being able to do anything.
It did show Hulk was more powerful though, and compare that to Surfer trying against Thor currently... that Thor is way more powerful and more durable. Which begs the question of why doesn't Thor molest Hulk... but alas, ABC

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Not really. He didn't do much to Surfer except move his head or body.

Surfer felt this punch:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk4.jpg

There's no denying that.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Ya, it says it in the scan. It was just the only part of the fight I had in my photobucket

Just wanted to make it clear, you know how some posters are.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He was def stronger than both. Hulk has thrown around Surfer a couple times, he's just never really hurt him

Cool. I just remember them trying to restrain him and getting out-muscled or whatever.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Surfer not holding back like he always had against Hulk would likely one shot him... especially with the way he's written now. Surfer against say WWH though would have to exert some force

I don't know how you could believe that.

I'm not sure Surfer could put down Green Scar even if he wanted to. He was simply ridiculously powerful. If Surfer had more raw power than an all out Sentry, it definitely wasn't by any large degree.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Probably, but it would be buried in my photobucket even worse than those scans were. The only significant attacks Surfer used were the board trick that severely hurt Hulk, and draining him that he cut off so he wouldn't kill him, and that happened in the first half. Second half was pretty much Surfer doing nothing, and Hulk not being able to do anything.
It did show Hulk was more powerful though

IIRC, he was blasting him and Hulk tanked it.

The later part of the battle just had Hulk breaking his force field and stomping on him to no effect IIRC.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
and compare that to Surfer trying against Thor currently... that Thor is way more powerful and more durable. Which begs the question of why doesn't Thor molest Hulk... but alas, ABC

So your main point is that Thor comes off a lot more powerful against Surfer than Hulk does?

I agree, Thor should stomp Hulk as decisively as he would Surfer. He is numero uno after all.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Surfer felt this punch:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/SurfervsHulk4.jpg

There's no denying that.



Just wanted to make it clear, you know how some posters are.



Cool. I just remember them trying to restrain him and getting out-muscled or whatever.



I don't know how you could believe that.

I'm not sure Surfer could put down Green Scar even if he wanted to. He was simply ridiculously powerful. If Surfer had more raw power than an all out Sentry, it definitely wasn't by any large degree.



IIRC, he was blasting him and Hulk tanked it.

The later part of the battle just had Hulk breaking his force field and stomping on him to no effect IIRC.



So your main point is that Thor comes off a lot more powerful against Surfer than Hulk does?

I agree, Thor should stomp Hulk as decisively as he would Surfer. He is numero uno after all.

Not too much. When a cheap punch by Hulk can only stop Surfer mid sentence...

Well, considering how easily Surfer beat Savage Hulk in the past, I don't see why an amped Surfer couldn't easily beat Modern Savage Hulk

And Sentry turned Hulk back to Banner...
Planet busting that has now made Hulk a God is no stranger to Surfer. We've never even seen Surfer really try against Hulk either, or go all out that often really. I don't see Surfer not being able to take him out, mind you I don't doubt it would take a lot.

I said significant. Surfer firing casual blasts isn't too significant.

Meh, I see Thor as equalish to Surfer while Hulk is below. Yet, in battles Thor was seen as superiour (before) to Surfer, Hulk is seen about equal to Thor if not a little better mostly because of the way Thor fights, and Surfer is miles ahead of Hulk.
A good example of why ABC logic doesn't work

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Not too much. When a cheap punch by Hulk can only stop Surfer mid sentence...

He was affected, not sure why that's hard to admit.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well, considering how easily Surfer beat Savage Hulk in the past, I don't see why an amped Surfer couldn't easily beat Modern Savage Hulk

I just don't see it happening. Hulk has grown in status is all. Whatever, it's your opinion.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
And Sentry turned Hulk back to Banner...
Planet busting that has now made Hulk a God is no stranger to Surfer. We've never even seen Surfer really try against Hulk either, or go all out that often really. I don't see Surfer not being able to take him out, mind you I don't doubt it would take a lot.

Okay?

I don't understand how you can think Surfer could take down Green Scar with any resembling casual force. He'd have to go all out and even then I'm not sure he'd be able to win. I highly doubt that when Pak wrote Sentry going all out, he was intended to possess any less raw power than the Elite big boys.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I see Thor as equalish to Surfer while Hulk is below. Yet, in battles Thor was seen as superiour (before) to Surfer, Hulk is seen about equal to Thor if not a little better mostly because of the way Thor fights, and Surfer is miles ahead of Hulk.
A good example of why ABC logic doesn't work

I think Thor's the main problem, mostly because he's defined by his opponents. Holding back and all that jazz.

We can all agree that Thor > Surfer or Hulk.

Originally posted by Stoic
Rulk is a Hulk, and Rulk snapped him.


Snapped a Silver Surfer who literally had just become a Herald for the first time.

Not really that important, but claims like can be completely blown out of proportion without proper context.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He was affected, not sure why that's hard to admit.



I just don't see it happening. Hulk has grown in status is all. Whatever, it's your opinion.



Okay?

I don't understand how you can think Surfer could take down Green Scar with any resembling casual force. He'd have to go all out and even then I'm not sure he'd be able to win. I highly doubt that when Pak wrote Sentry going all out, he was intended to possess any less raw power than the Elite big boys.



I think Thor's the main problem, mostly because he's defined by his opponents. Holding back and all that jazz.

We can all agree that Thor > Surfer or Hulk. Uhhh
He was clearly on the edge of defeat
I also said "Not too much", but whatever, ignore

No he hasn't... not Savage anyway.
Status doesn't mean a power increase anyway. When a weaker Surfer runs a rape train on Savage, a more powerful Surfer isn't not going to run a rape train on Savage. It doesn't make any sense

But Sentry did 'put down Hulk'. He turned him back to Banner... That's not something you want to happen to you when someone who won't turn into a human is fighting you.
Surfer also wouldn't offer up his face as well. Probably board hack, and full power blasts.

Nope

Team.

Smh...

Originally posted by dmills
Scans? http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans2.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans3.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans4.jpg

then surfer (during torture of hulk)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans5.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans6.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans7.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_trauma2.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans2.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans3.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans4.jpg

then surfer (during torture of hulk)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans5.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans6.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_troyjans7.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_trauma2.jpg

Thanks as always

Phucking Carver...

Originally posted by dmills
Thanks as always

Phucking Carver...

I was right and the Hulk lowballing needs to stop.

Not directed at you dmills.

Originally posted by carver9
I was right and the Hulk lowballing needs to stop.

Not directed at you dmills.

You were right-ish.

Originally posted by carver9
I was right and the Hulk lowballing needs to stop. You tell them Carver. Ler me know who these haters are! durhulk

Originally posted by dmills
Thanks as always

Phucking Carver... the second and third scan at the top should be switch fyi. i labled them incorrectly

hulk wrecks them

^

Hulkie Boy loses again.

No brick can beat Surfer in a non-PIS scenario.

Preach on brother..

Team ftw..

You know what Hulk #634 and #635 reminded me of... How far Dr. Strange fell from his former heights to someone struggling to get to the Dark Dimension and basic dimension teleports...

Anyways that said the way that Hulk was beating the hell out of a fing fang foom who was enhanced to a level where he could conquer the world as per his wish via the wishmachine. Basically wiped out the Dark Dimension and was casually wrecking old foes he used to struggle with/toe to toe with.

Now I do believe that he'd kill Thor due to CIS where Thor will likely get into a match of fisticuffs with him as previously stated Savage Hulk used to be a match for him in a straight fist fight current Hulk *should* beat him senseless. Hulk in 634 is not hesitating to kill hell he obliterated Cho how many times?

Before passing any real judgement I think we need to see how the Hulk fares against someone not a brick/gamma creature to really assess how he would do. At the least he needs to fight a matter manip capable character in a full on fight either magic based or power cosmic based to tell how he'd fair against surfer or CIS off Thor.
At this point I foresee silly powers being attributed to Hulk that were never there before so I'll have to reserve judgement though overall at this point I'm favoring the team rather heavily. More so if Thor doesn't fight like a derp.

Team, unless they decide to brawl with Hulk somehow, which would be...retarded.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Team, unless they decide to brawl with Hulk somehow, which would be...retarded.


Well Surfer wont that for sure and Bill I would say he is less likely to do it than Thor.

Hulk doesn't have an answer to Surfers or Bills exotic powers.

And even if Surfer tried to brawl, he was quick enough to avoid Hulks punches WITHOUT HIS BOARD. With it, he could play tag forever if he wanted to, although that wouldn't beat him...

None of them have an answer for the energy that is generating off of Hulks body that is melting Heralds. Then Armageddon blast wasn't doing crap to Hulk and these same attacks was working Surfer.

What are they going to do, try to drain him....already been tried and it failed and this same person sapped the power cosmic from Surfer. Hulk simply thunder clap or super speed jump to them and literally rock them with a couple of well placed punches.

It took both Thor AND Bill to fight Kurse, Hulk is magnetudes more powerful than Kurse. Bill and Surfer energy attacks won't work, etc, etc...

Then like I said before, a holding back Hulk wrecked the Mindless Ones, beings that Umar stated she couldn't handle, beings that Classic Strange and Dormammu struggled to defeat. Hulk took all of them on and mud raped them.

Hulk 8 or 9/10 and the wins I am giving them is due to bfring

I don't know what mud rape is, but it sounds pretty sexy.

Carver's convinced me. Hulk 10/10. Screw BFR.

Originally posted by carver9
None of them have an answer for the energy that is generating off of Hulks body that is melting Heralds.

Stormbreaker + Power Cosmic.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Stormbreaker + Power Cosmic. NOTHING!!!!

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Stormbreaker + Power Cosmic.

Uh huh? They would have to keep the fight at a high distance and even then...speed jumping with a thunderclap to follow to bypass that. Hell, it might ko them. Remember, Hulk thunderclap ripped through the dimensional barrier that Umar put up.

Bill nor Surfer isn't withstanding to many punches, especially punches that was melting Heralds from the shockwaves.

Originally posted by carver9
Uh huh? They would have to keep the fight at a high distance and even then...speed jumping with a thunderclap to follow to bypass that. Hell, it might ko them. Remember, Hulk thunderclap ripped through the dimensional barrier that Umar put up.

Bill nor Surfer isn't withstanding to many punches, especially punches that was melting Heralds from the shockwaves.

You don't think that between Stormbreaker and the Power Cosmic, the two of them couldn't protect themselves from Hulk's energy output?

I think you need to take into account what they've done as well, not just focus on Hulk.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
not just focus on Hulk. http://i38.tinypic.com/2ajbe5x.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You don't think that between Stormbreaker and the Power Cosmic, the two of them couldn't protect themselves from Hulk's energy output?

I think you need to take into account what they've done as well, not just focus on Hulk.
How do the team actually put Hulk down?

Originally posted by carver9
..

Then like I said before, a holding back Hulk wrecked the Mindless Ones, beings that Umar stated she couldn't handle, beings that Classic Strange and Dormammu struggled to defeat. Hulk took all of them on and mud raped them.


Can you at least once state a Hulk feat correctly Hulk and Umar were fighting the mindless Ones he pushed them back and she put up a shield.They were then contained


The second time they ran into them was when the shield was broken by Hulk thunder clapping Foom into it then Umar teleported them away.


Strange claimed Umar could not stop them alone but he also made the same claim about Hulk which he disagreed with but we never saw if he could.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
How do the team actually put Hulk down? They BFR him.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
How do the team actually put Hulk down?

Teamwork
Superior firepower
Superior versatility
Superior defensive capabilities
Superior mobility
BFR capabilities

They have way too many advantages for Hulk to overcome, and they would literally have to fight down on Hulk's level in order to give him the chance to stomp all over them.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Teamwork
Superior firepower
Superior versatility
Superior defensive capabilities
Superior mobility
BFR capabilities

They have way too many advantages for Hulk to overcome, and they would literally have to fight down on Hulk's level in order to give him the chance to stomp all over them.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by carver9
Uh huh? They would have to keep the fight at a high distance and even then...speed jumping with a thunderclap to follow to bypass that. Hell, it might ko them. Remember, Hulk thunderclap ripped through the dimensional barrier that Umar put up.

Bill nor Surfer isn't withstanding to many punches, especially punches that was melting Heralds from the shockwaves.

What in these two characters respective histories would suggest that they'd be ko'ed by a thunder clap? These are no run of the mill heralds. One is a ruthlessly efficient mid-high herald and the other is a damn trinity herald. Arguably the most powerful one at that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Teamwork
Superior firepower
Superior versatility
Superior defensive capabilities
Superior mobility
BFR capabilities

They have way too many advantages for Hulk to overcome, and they would literally have to fight down on Hulk's level in order to give him the chance to stomp all over them.
They have more abilities at their disposal obviously but this isn't Savage Hulk their fighting, WBH would literally walk through their conventional attacks so again how do the team actually kill Hulk at this level?

1 punch from him would severely hurt either on the team and leave them vulnerable

Originally posted by dmills
What in these two characters respective histories would suggest that they'd be ko'ed by a thunder clap? These are no run of the mill heralds. One is a ruthlessly efficient mid-high herald and the other is a damn trinity herald. Arguably the most powerful one at that.


While I don't often I agree with Carver and I dont here about him taking them down with Thunderclaps he did put down a powered up Rulk with one and as Carver mentioned Knocked back Foom hard enough with one to brake a barrier Umar put up to stop an army of mindless ones.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
They have more abilities at their disposal obviously but this isn't Savage Hulk their fighting, WBH would literally walk through their conventional attacks so again how do the team actually kill Hulk at this level?

1 punch from him would severely hurt either on the team and leave them vulnerable

Yeah, and those many abilities and advantages they have over Hulk trump Hulk just being really really strong.

Again, Surfer and Bill would have to let Hulk get the opportunity to punch them. And why would they do that when they can just play keep away and spam the hell out of him with their vastly powerful attacks?

Conversely, what can WBH do to them if they don't want to engage him directly up close and personal?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Current Hulk>War Hulk>WWH>Savage Hulk >Thor>Silver surfer>BRB

hulk should spite Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
How do you remember to breath?

Originally posted by The Sorrow
They have more abilities at their disposal obviously but this isn't Savage Hulk their fighting, WBH would literally walk through their conventional attacks so again how do the team actually kill Hulk at this level?

1 punch from him would severely hurt either on the team and leave them vulnerable

Too true.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Conversely, what can WBH do to them if surfer doesn't want to engage him directly up close and personal? fixed

bill will be the object lesson why distance between surfer and hulk is paramount. he'd make a b-line for him and get wrecked

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, and those many abilities and advantages they have over Hulk trump Hulk just being really really strong.

Again, Surfer and Bill would have to let Hulk get the opportunity to punch them. And why would they do that when they can just play keep away and spam the hell out of him with their vastly powerful attacks?

Conversely, what can WBH do to them if they don't want to engage him directly up close and personal?

They would have to protect themselves the entire fight while also trying to defend off Hulk. They would have to focus and absorb the gamma energy that is emitting from Hulk body (that melts Heralds) along with dodging super speed jumps and thunderclaps from Hulk. Now if you can show me both Surfer and Bill absorbing energy while attacking at the same time, their versatility means craps here since they will be struggling to survive from Hulk energy output alone.

Show me these scans of them doing both.

Originally posted by carver9
They would have to protect themselves the entire fight while also trying to defend off Hulk. They would have to focus and absorb the gamma energy that is emitting from Hulk body (that melts Heralds) along with dodging super speed jumps and thunderclaps from Hulk. Now if you can show me both Surfer and Bill absorbing energy while attacking at the same time, their versatility means craps here since they will be struggling to survive from Hulk energy output alone.

Show me these scans of them doing both.

As soon as you show scans of the Hulk "speed jumping" while clapping his hands in the air and melting heralds with his gamma energy. All at the same time of course

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, and those many abilities and advantages they have over Hulk trump Hulk just being really really strong.

Again, Surfer and Bill would have to let Hulk get the opportunity to punch them. And why would they do that when they can just play keep away and spam the hell out of him with their vastly powerful attacks?

Conversely, what can WBH do to them if they don't want to engage him directly up close and personal?
You would literally have to take them completely out of character for that scenario to happen. Nothing would stop them but if their attacks do little more than make Hulk angrier, which would be suicide, they would have to try something else and engage.

In character with no BFR they lose the majority here

Originally posted by The Sorrow
You would literally have to take them completely out of character for that scenario to happen. Nothing would stop them but if their attacks do little more than make Hulk angrier, which would be suicide, they would have to try something else and engage.

In character with no BFR they lose the majority here

Not necessarily. There's a reason that we know these are two of the more versatile heralds out there. Surfer is only an idiot when he fights Thanos or Thor. Against the Hulk in particular he has a history of using his abilities rather then slugging it out against him.

I don't see why Bill and Surfer using ranged attacks is paramount to me saying they'd be fighting out of character. The fact of the matter is against foes like this, Hulk needs them to engage him up close and personal for him to smash them decisively.

Originally posted by dmills
As soon as you show scans of the Hulk "speed jumping" while clapping his hands in the air and melting heralds with his gamma energy. All at the same time of course

Him speed jumping has been shown numerous of times. Hulk during 634 was emitting energy the entire time while fighting she Rulk. He even did it during his fight against Armageddon while jumping in the air with a punch.

That was standard for this Hulk.

As for thunderclap...you don't think Hulk can jump up in the air and clap his hands at the same time? Can you jump and clap?

Originally posted by carver9
Him speed jumping has been shown numerous of times. Hulk during 634 was emitting energy the entire time while fighting she Rulk. He even did it during his fight against Armageddon while jumping in the air with a punch.

That was standard for this Hulk.

As for thunderclap...you don't think Hulk can jump up in the air and clap his hands at the same time? Can you jump and clap?
This is eerily similar to the argument that you've vehemently rejected regarding Flash being able to IMP multiple times a second.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't see why Bill and Surfer using ranged attacks is paramount to me saying they'd be fighting out of character. The fact of the matter is against foes like this, Hulk needs them to engage him up close and personal for him to smash them decisively.

They are not safe in this battle.

Originally posted by carver9
Him speed jumping has been shown numerous of times. Hulk during 634 was emitting energy the entire time while fighting she Rulk. He even did it during his fight against Armageddon while jumping in the air with a punch.

That was standard for this Hulk.

As for thunderclap...you don't think Hulk can jump up in the air and clap his hands at the same time? Can you jump and clap?

You're showing your bias with that post you know that right?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
This is eerily similar to the argument that you've vehemently rejected regarding Flash being able to IMP multiple times a second.

Are you really arguing that Hulk can't clap while in the air? That's different than an imp. He is CLAPPING.

Originally posted by dmills
You're showing your bias with that post you know that right?

How?

Originally posted by dmills
Not necessarily. There's a reason that we know these are two of the more versatile heralds out there. Surfer is only an idiot when he fights Thanos or Thor. Against the Hulk in particular he has a history of using his abilities rather then slugging it out against him.
Through the years though Hulks showings against Silver Surfer have improved as his power has grown and during Planet Hulk, although he had help, Hulk did show he had the power to knock Surfer out.
You mentioned Thanos, Surfers powers were shown to be almost nothing to him, it would be a completely different story if WBH took on Thanos.

Just curious, if you think the team would win how do you think they would win?

Originally posted by carver9
How?

Because earlier you demanded to be shown a very specific set of feats done in synchronicity by the team, but yet when asked that the Hulk show the feats that you claimed he'd do, but with the same synchronicity that you demanded of the team, you did the Ali shuffle.

In other words, be consistent.

Originally posted by carver9
Are you really arguing that Hulk can't clap while in the air? That's different than an imp. He is CLAPPING.
The IMP didn't appear to take much more effort than a thunderclap.

Originally posted by dmills
Because earlier you demanded to be shown a very specific set of feats done in synchronicity by the team, but yet when asked that the Hulk show the feats that you claimed he'd do, but with the same synchronicity that you demanded of the team, you did the Ali shuffle.

In other words, be consistent. Originally posted by The Sorrow
Through the years though Hulks showings against Silver Surfer have improved as his power has grown and during Planet Hulk, although he had help, Hulk did show he had the power to knock Surfer out.
You mentioned Thanos, Surfers powers were shown to be almost nothing to him, it would be a completely different story if WBH took on Thanos.

Just curious, if you think the team would win how do you think they would win?

With a cheapshot (although it can be counted as payback for the Surfer cheapshot from earlier in the encounter)

Not in my estimation. Thanos would devastate any version of the Hulk. Nothing I've seen currently would change that.

That bottomline for me is this, the Hulk had some bad ass showings in the last few issues no doubt. But you guys are out of your minds giving him the win over 2 high heralds, one of which is a trinity member. I'm not prepared to give Banner that yet. The biggest baddest strongest one there is title is his for sure. But he'd lose to these two imo.

The two can win if they battle field remove him or something akin to that but they'd get wrecked if they go for force over finesse.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The two can win if they battle field remove him or something akin to that but they'd get wrecked if they go for force over finesse.

One of the non-biased peeps on the forum.

Originally posted by carver9
One of the non-biased peeps on the forum. http://www.gifbin.com/bin/102009/1255605321_shocked.gif

Originally posted by dmills
With a cheapshot (although it can be counted as payback for the Surfer cheapshot from earlier in the encounter)

Not in my estimation. Thanos would devastate any version of the Hulk. Nothing I've seen currently would change that.

That bottomline for me is this, the Hulk had some bad ass showings in the last few issues no doubt. But you guys are out of your minds giving him the win over 2 high heralds, one of which is a trinity member. I'm not prepared to give Banner that yet. The biggest baddest strongest one there is title is his for sure. But he'd lose to these two imo.

How is Thanos beating Hulk?

He would have to take it h2h because his blasting power isn't doing a thing to Hulk. In a fist match, Thanos is getting curbed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The IMP didn't appear to take much more effort than a thunderclap.

People saying that Flash can throw a 1000 Superman level punches in a second...Thats ridiculous. Who has flash koed with a punch?

Originally posted by carver9
How is Thanos beating Hulk?

He would have to take it h2h because his blasting power isn't doing a thing to Hulk. In a fist match, Thanos is getting curbed.


Quan just heard that from wherever he is right now and he is coming to get you.

Looking at who these responses are coming from, it seems as though this debate is split inbetween two camps. Posters that favor raw power showings and posters that favor power set/versatility showings.

Originally posted by dmills
Because earlier you demanded to be shown a very specific set of feats done in synchronicity by the team, but yet when asked that the Hulk show the feats that you claimed he'd do, but with the same synchronicity that you demanded of the team, you did the Ali shuffle.

In other words, be consistent.

What I have stated has been shown on panel. It's just that simple. Hulk thunderclapped Gladiator ears in while in the air. Hulk super speed jumped against Ghostrider and he did it in his latest issue.

Him powering up, emitting gamma energy from his body...that has happened on numerous of occasions. He even did it while attacking himself.

Like I said before...Bill and Surfer would be busy trying no to get hit by the energy output of Hulk which would leave them wide open for Hulk to leap and attack. They would be absorbing energy while fending off a ruthless Hulk.

Originally posted by dmills
Looking at who these responses are coming from, it seems as though this debate is split inbetween two camps. Posters that favor raw power showings and posters that favor power set/versatility showings.

Versatility isn't helping them unless they are in a secure area from the Hulk which in itself would be a bfr on their part.

Originally posted by carver9
Like I said before...Bill and Surfer would be busy trying no to get hit by the energy output of Hulk which would leave them wide open for Hulk to leap and attack. They would be absorbing energy while fending off a ruthless Hulk... I can't see that happening. coincidence?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
coincidence?

And you wonder why I'm content to be a Nova fan lol.

Originally posted by carver9
How is Thanos beating Hulk?

He would have to take it h2h because his blasting power isn't doing a thing to Hulk. In a fist match, Thanos is getting curbed.

You're setting yourself up for another heart break.

Originally posted by carver9
How is Thanos beating Hulk?

He would have to take it h2h because his blasting power isn't doing a thing to Hulk. In a fist match, Thanos is getting curbed.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lasmpzzeeO1qe0eclo1_r2_500.gif

Originally posted by Simbon
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lasmpzzeeO1qe0eclo1_r2_500.gif

Originally posted by carver9
How is Thanos beating Hulk?

He would have to take it h2h because his blasting power isn't doing a thing to Hulk. In a fist match, Thanos is getting curbed. wheres Quan?

Originally posted by Damborgson
wheres Quan? I responded in the appropriate thread. carver will run like he always does in the end.

Spite team wins.

Originally posted by carver9
Are you really arguing that Hulk can't clap while in the air? That's different than an imp. He is CLAPPING. An IMP is Flash punching at near lightspeed... So someone who can easily move ftl can't punch more than once in a second... Alrighty then I guess I have no choice but to concede now as this argument is irrefutable as clearly unlike the Hulk the Flash cannot do two things at once such as move really fast and punch at that speed (despite the fact that his punch speed is just his speed so it's really just repeating one motion) like the hulk can jump and clap.

Hm lets see, just after a look at the Silver Surfer respect thread, we can see:

* Warp Speed
* Intangibility
* Teleportation
* Time Travel
* BFR via Location Portal and Time Portals
* Manipulation of Space and Time
* Create Illusions
* Telepathy

That's not even half of it, but are some which Hulk has no defense for.

I find it amazing fanboys can claim a brick can beat someone this versatile in a non-PIS battle. The picture people are painting is that Surfer is just some guy who just flies around firing off energy blasts.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hm lets see, just after a look at the Silver Surfer respect thread, we can see:

* Warp Speed
* Intangibility
* Teleportation
* Time Travel
* BFR via Location Portal and Time Portals
* Manipulation of Space and Time
* Create Illusions
* Telepathy

That's not even half of it, but are some which Hulk has no defense for.

I find it amazing fanboys can claim a brick can beat someone this versatile in a non-PIS battle. The picture people are painting is that Surfer is just some guy who just flies around firing off energy blasts.

It's because we argue characters, not powersets

but yes, in any reasonable fight Surfer should beat Hulk.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's because we argue characters, not powersets


It is within his character though (again bar PIS), where else did the feats come from?

I'll just say Surfer did not join the ranks of high heralds by being someone who just flies and fire a few hand blasts. I'll dare say if people don't think it is within his character to fight with his other powers in a NON-PIS fight then Surfer should be demoted to mid-herald at best. Not that I agree with that, but that would be your true contention.

Originally posted by Placidity
It is within his character though (again bar PIS), where else did the feats come from?

I'll just say Surfer did not join the ranks of high heralds by being someone who just flies and fire a few hand blasts. I'll dare say if people don't think it is within his character to fight with his other powers in a NON-PIS fight then Surfer should be demoted to mid-herald at best. Not that I agree with that, but that would be your true contention.

le smiley = me kidding.

there's a question of consistency in general, so not every single application of his power is likely to be used in a fight, but he has more than enough versatility that IS consistent to both put him at high herald and make him a match for hulk in general.

Originally posted by -Pr-
le smiley = me kidding.


Ok

Originally posted by -Pr-
but he has more than enough versatility that IS consistent to both put him at high herald and make him more than a match for hulk in general.

Fixed

Originally posted by Placidity
Hm lets see, just after a look at the Silver Surfer respect thread, we can see:

* Warp Speed
* Intangibility
* Teleportation
* Time Travel
* BFR via Location Portal and Time Portals
* Manipulation of Space and Time
* Create Illusions
* Telepathy

That's not even half of it, but are some which Hulk has no defense for.

Lets look at your list. Teleportation? Can score him a BFR. "Location portal/time portal"? Another BFR. Time travel? Good for another BFR i suppose. Create illusions? Yeah thats a fight winner right there. Telepathy? Given that WWH nosold Professor X and a normal Hulk recently did the same to Xemnu doesnt seem like a great option. Intangibility could help Norrin hide I suppose but i dont think you are going to win a fight from an intengible state. Warp speed? Again i suppose Norrin can always run away if he wants. Good for him. Manipulation of space and time is pretty vague and sounds very menacing but im not sure what it means in a fight.

So basically this list doesnt ammount to much in the way of options other than BFR. Meanwhile Surfer could probably sit in orbit and blast this Hulk with his most powerful attacks all day to no effect. If people thought WWH had a ridiculous healing factor it doesnt bear thinking the sort of things this guy would bounce back from. Not to mention if we are to do a similar trawl through continuity to find obscure powers this is someone who has shrugged off transmutation in probably his weakest incarnation.



Well the reality is that thats who he is in 99% of his appearances. I realise people have some deep seated aversion to the Hulk because of Carver or whatever it is but the fact is that these guys would be ****ed 9/10 times in this fight.

Originally posted by -Pr-
le smiley = me kidding.

there's a question of consistency in general, so not every single application of his power is likely to be used in a fight, but he has more than enough versatility that IS consistent to both put him at high herald and make him a match for hulk in general.

Its probably because forums such as this were heavily influenced by CBR back in the distant past but for whatever reason it was once accepted by most forum people that a character could use any ability that they had ever used, no matter how rarely over the years and the only reason they didnt use it in a particular fight was because of "PIS". That kind of approach seems to favour guys like the Surfer much more than other characters and is probably why hes seen as being much more effective and powerful online then he is in an actual comicbook. I think the obvious fact is that for most writers the Surfer is someone who just blasts things and flies around on a board and he isnt thought of as being capable of doing any and every feat that has been attributed to him by other writers over the years. I suppose thats just the way things are but the urge by people in battle forums to rewrite things "the way they ought to be" often goes way too far IMO. End rant.

Even if we count Surfer as "someone who just blasts things and flies around on a board" he still beats a green meatball who just walks around swinging his fists

Originally posted by Mshinu
Even if we count Surfer as "someone who just blasts things and flies around on a board" he still beats a green meatball who just walks around swinging his fists

Bah!

Originally posted by -Pr-
le smiley = me kidding. What if you're only smiling to try and hold back the tears?

Originally posted by Fifthchild
Lets look at your list. Teleportation? Can score him a BFR. "Location portal/time portal"? Another BFR. Time travel? Good for another BFR i suppose. Create illusions? Yeah thats a fight winner right there. Telepathy? Given that WWH nosold Professor X and a normal Hulk recently did the same to Xemnu doesnt seem like a great option. Intangibility could help Norrin hide I suppose but i dont think you are going to win a fight from an intengible state. Warp speed? Again i suppose Norrin can always run away if he wants. Good for him. Manipulation of space and time is pretty vague and sounds very menacing but im not sure what it means in a fight.

So basically this list doesnt ammount to much in the way of options other than BFR. Meanwhile Surfer could probably sit in orbit and blast this Hulk with his most powerful attacks all day to no effect. If people thought WWH had a ridiculous healing factor it doesnt bear thinking the sort of things this guy would bounce back from. Not to mention if we are to do a similar trawl through continuity to find obscure powers this is someone who has shrugged off transmutation in probably his weakest incarnation.



Well the reality is that thats who he is in 99% of his appearances. I realise people have some deep seated aversion to the Hulk because of Carver or whatever it is but the fact is that these guys would be ****ed 9/10 times in this fight.

Surfer's blasts are powerful enough to KO the Champion, and in his fight with Morg they devastated an entire solar system with their energy output -- to assume that they would have "no effect" on Hulk is foolishness. Likewise, Hulk's resistance to transmutation was against someone whose abilities are so quantitatively and qualitatively inferior to Surfer's that the feat means almost nothing here, especially as in that comic hulk took pages to fully recover -- even though he regained mobility, he was still slow and stony. Surfer has evolved an entire planet with his matter manip, and has even affected Lunatik in a lasting way, who also has a massive healing factor.Some folks have suggested that Armageddon tried and failed to gamma drain hulk and that therefor it would be the same with Surfer, but this is simply not true -- Armageddon manipulated Hulk's energy to use it as a weapon against the people hulk loved, and he succeeded. Hulk bore through the attack and killed him, but the fight shows precisely the opposite of what some have claimed: it shows that hulk's gamma energy can be manipulated by an outside force.

Surfer solos ten ways 'til sunday.

Originally posted by Simbon
Some folks have suggested that Armageddon tried and failed to gamma drain hulk and that therefor it would be the same with Surfer, but this is simply not true -- Armageddon manipulated Hulk's energy to use it as a weapon against the people hulk loved, and he succeeded. Hulk bore through the attack and killed him, but the fight shows precisely the opposite of what some have claimed: it shows that hulk's gamma energy can be manipulated by an outside force.

Surfer solos ten ways 'til sunday.

Ouch.

Originally posted by Simbon
Surfer's blasts are powerful enough to KO the Champion, and in his fight with Morg they devastated an entire solar system with their energy output -- to assume that they would have "no effect" on Hulk is foolishness. Likewise, Hulk's resistance to transmutation was against someone whose abilities are so quantitatively and qualitatively inferior to Surfer's that the feat means almost nothing here, especially as in that comic hulk took pages to fully recover -- even though he regained mobility, he was still slow and stony. Surfer has evolved an entire planet with his matter manip, and has even affected Lunatik in a lasting way, who also has a massive healing factor.Some folks have suggested that Armageddon tried and failed to gamma drain hulk and that therefor it would be the same with Surfer, but this is simply not true -- Armageddon manipulated Hulk's energy to use it as a weapon against the people hulk loved, and he succeeded. Hulk bore through the attack and killed him, but the fight shows precisely the opposite of what some have claimed: it shows that hulk's gamma energy can be manipulated by an outside force.

Surfer solos ten ways 'til sunday.

Show me Armageddon draining Hulk dry. He had Surfer at his mercy with the same type of attack he used against Hulk.

Surfer never destroyed a Solar System.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me Armageddon draining Hulk dry. He had Surfer at his mercy with the same type of attack he used against Hulk.

Surfer never destroyed a Solar System.

Hulk's gamma energy > Surfer's PC and Storm breaker?

Only person that can drain Hulk dry is Carver.

Originally posted by Mindset
Only person that can drain Hulk dry is Carver.

Originally posted by dmills
Hulk's gamma energy > Surfer's PC and Storm breaker? hulk is the source of his own power where as surfer use it from galactus

Originally posted by dmills
Hulk's gamma energy > Surfer's PC and Storm breaker?

Looking at the destructive power Armageddon was unleashing when he absorbed Hulk power versus the destructive power armageddon unleashed when he absorbed Surfer power...yes.

Then if you look at the fact that Rulk drained Surfer dry in a panel but when he tried to do the same thing to WWH, he failed and WWH even stated during the time Rulk was trying to drain him that it was impossible...he doesn't have the power to handle WWH power.

So yeah, your estimations is right.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me Armageddon draining Hulk dry. He had Surfer at his mercy with the same type of attack he used against Hulk.

Surfer never destroyed a Solar System.

Armageddon never tried to drain hulk dry -- like I said, like the comic said, he was only using Hulk's energy as a weapon. The attack was not at all the same kind he used against Surfer -- in that case, he was simply letting power run through surfer uncontrollably (like a spigget, in his words). Once again, it proves that Hulk's gamma energy can be manipulated.

I never said "destroyed" -- I said devastated, which is what they did.

Originally posted by Mindset
Only person that can drain Hulk dry is Carver.

It's funny because it's true.

Originally posted by Simbon
Armageddon never tried to drain hulk dry -- like I said, like the comic said, he was only using Hulk's energy as a weapon. The attack was not at all the same kind he used against Surfer -- in that case, he was simply letting power run through surfer uncontrollably (like a spigget, in his words). Once again, it proves that Hulk's gamma energy can be manipulated.

I never said "destroyed" -- I said devastated, which is what they did.

Rulk drained Surfer dry in one panel and failed at doing the same thing to WWH.

Originally posted by carver9
Looking at the destructive power Armageddon was unleashing when he absorbed Hulk power versus the destructive power armageddon unleashed when he absorbed Surfer power...yes.

Then if you look at the fact that Rulk drained Surfer dry in a panel but when he tried to do the same thing to WWH, he failed and WWH even stated during the time Rulk was trying to drain him that it was impossible...he doesn't have the power to handle WWH power.

So yeah, your estimations is right.

Ah yes, because Rulk is Rulk, and has had no radical decline in power since his early appearances. Hulk >> Grandmaster, right?