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vs

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Ko to combo ftw

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Originally posted by CosmicComet
http://annenahm.com/anneimage/2009/11/Michael+Jackson+Jackson_popcorn.gif

Yep. Fireworks about to start.

thor

Thor wins.

Get at me.

Thor wins.

Flash (any version) is highly overrated. I'm going with Thor for the majority (he even caught Hermes by the heel once so it's not like he'll have a problem seeing/tagging Flash).

Bart is underrated.

He's the second most powerful guy on Earth.

Originally posted by Mindset
Bart is underrated.

He's the second most powerful guy on Earth.
no2

Well, Kyle is off world a lot so he could be excluded.

Good point.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, Kyle is off world a lot so he could be excluded.

Good point.

LOL

Seriously though, Thor takes this.

If I wrote it, i'd have Thor win, but I think Barry could take a split given how much of a push he's gotten, if not a majority.

barry's sweet and looked fully capable of wrecking j'onn. speedster threads just turn into stupid-fests though, so meh.

Depends on hard you want to wank speed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If I wrote it, i'd have Thor win, but I think Barry could take a split given how much of a push he's gotten, if not a majority.

Seems like Barry will be doing a lot of new things with the Speed Force. Can't wait.

Barry..he's too fast for Thor..

Originally posted by Mindset
Bart is underrated.

He's the second most powerful guy on Earth.

He really is.

And Wally's a better Flash than Barry.

Barry still beats Thor 10/10, though.

Thor wins. He didn't look very concerned going up against Quicksilver and even commented that he has experience dealing with speedsters. Quicksilver doesn't have the DC "special" speed powers so I'm not saying he's in Flash's league but he has been showing well lately.

P.S. I'm a tiny bit biased against DC speedsters. I think Marvel handles it more realistically.

DC handles speed more realistically.

It's less of a maybe/sometimes/i dont know power in DC than it is in Marvel.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
DC handles speed more realistically.

It's less of a maybe/sometimes/i dont know power in DC than it is in Marvel. More because DC focuses more on enhancement powers than Marvel. Even DC mages tend to have more detective/brick like aspects than marvel. Also as of Flashpoint with Barry starting to acknowledge his more esoteric powers as a commonly used ability as well as the fact that I believe Flashpoint implies that Barry is outside of time as Zoom stated he himself was due to the fact that Barry kept his memories despite the reboot of the timeline. Barry was keeping up with Zoom without the difficulty he's had prior and is shown to understand how to timetravel at will as a matter of focus. I'd like to see how Thor deals with a Flash who's capable of dodging attacks via time travel has a speed that is far faster than ever before and a willingness to use his abilities.

Btw for the hermes feat beating the flash as a basis for Thor being able to tag Flash. Flash was contending with Hermes and recently lost a lot of his constraints with his speed. Big amp IMO so I don't know if I would consider that race/hermes dickery stealing his speed a valid loss anymore considering Barry's new speed.

So Thor either

A) can't hit Barry which results in a draw if people think Barry couldn't hurt Thor.... which he can
B) gets speedstolen(for anyone who says a Mjolnir stop is possible I'd like to see him try with his cognitive functions brought to a halt)
C) IMP/Speedforce dump.

Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
Thor wins. He didn't look very concerned going up against Quicksilver and even commented that he has experience dealing with speedsters.

Thor had to resort to quaking the ground, meaning he was too slow to just hit him.

Wally beats Thor.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thor had to resort to quaking the ground, meaning he was too slow to just hit him.

He's also hit beings far far faster than Quicksilver.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's also hit beings far far faster than Quicksilver.

That's because;

Or because Thor has the ability to tag beings with superspeed?

He's displayed enough feats to warrant an argument saying he can tag a speedster directly if not use a roundabout method of hitting them (ie. weather control, quakes, area of effect attacks, etc). He also has displayed trouble against swift enemies to justify someone saying he'd be unable to do it regularly.

In the end, it boils down to how much stock you put into the specific power of superspeed (which has been long since romanticized on KMC) and to what lengths you find it to be broken and whatnot.

Your second/third sentence is exactly what I meant. How the hell can Thor go from fighting 'instantaneous light speed' Starhawk (who seems like he forgot his speed fighting Thor), to slugging it out with mere mach x speed Hulk?

Speed is 'romanticized' for good reason.

You can't beat what you can't hit.

Speed kills, period.

When you have speedsters who are so fast, the world from their perspective is literally standing still, including falling glass hanging in mid air or ballooning explosions stopping in their tracks, it's no wonder high level speed is overrated.

And that's not even taking into account speedsters fast enough to do that, are themselves eclipsed by the cream of the crop to the point of standing still themselves.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Or because Thor has the ability to tag beings with superspeed?

He's displayed enough feats to warrant an argument saying he can tag a speedster directly if not use a roundabout method of hitting them (ie. weather control, quakes, area of effect attacks, etc). He also has displayed trouble against swift enemies to justify someone saying he'd be unable to do it regularly.

In the end, it boils down to how much stock you put into the specific power of superspeed (which has been long since romanticized on KMC) and to what lengths you find it to be broken and whatnot. Originally posted by CosmicComet
Your second/third sentence is exactly what I meant. How the hell can Thor go from fighting 'instantaneous light speed' Starhawk (who seems like he forgot his speed fighting Thor), to slugging it out with mere mach x speed Hulk?

Speed is 'romanticized' for good reason.

You can't beat what you can't hit.

Speed kills, period.

As I said before I find the Flash incredibly broken and I wish after Flashpoint Barry would have been depowered to Jay Garrick levels... Lightspeed/a bit faster than light is fast enough for flash. But at will time travel, an inescapable dimension, the ability to steal kinetic energy, deliver Superman+ level punches is stupid. But it's all in Barry's power set.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Your second/third sentence is exactly what I meant. How the hell can Thor go from fighting 'instantaneous light speed' Starhawk (who seems like he forgot his speed fighting Thor), to slugging it out with mere mach x speed Hulk?

Speed is 'romanticized' for good reason.

You can't beat what you can't hit.

Speed kills, period.

Speed's important enough in the grand scheme of things, but when you extrapolate superspeed to the point where these characters cease to be themselves and begin hitting billions of times under a forum setting and can hit with galaxy level force and solo an untold number of herald level beings when they've clearly have not done anything close to that in their actual comics, it becomes a joke.

You can't honestly tell me the power of super speed isn't vastly overrated on these forums.

Originally posted by Uriel005
As I said before I find the Flash incredibly broken and I wish after Flashpoint Barry would have been depowered to Jay Garrick levels... Lightspeed/a bit faster than light is fast enough for flash. But at will time travel, an inescapable dimension, the ability to steal kinetic energy, deliver Superman+ level punches is stupid. But it's all in Barry's power set.

Cool. He has a broken power set, just like x amount of characters.

Doesn't mean he'll actively do all of that in a typical fight where he's fighting in character and decades worth of comics support that. I just find it funny how anyone with superspeed gets a pass to become some kind of CIS off, superspeed blitzing, Speed Force dumping, speed stealing, God like being, but characters with wide open ended power sets such as a Green Lantern or Silver Surfer don't get the same benefit of the doubt.

He's done a lot of the things people argue in character, though.

It's not common, but it doesn't need to be under forum rules. It just needs to be the smart thing, as CIS is off.

No, the problem is people get too hung up on tiers and names and don't pay attention to powerset enough.

Galactus can be a cosmic all he wants. He doesn't have the feats to suggest that Barry can't blitz the hell out of him. Barry may or may not be able to ko him, but Galactus wouldn't be able to put up an offense himself.

Originally posted by cdtm
He's done a lot of the things people argue in character, though.

It's not common, but it doesn't need to be under forum rules. It just needs to be the smart thing, as CIS is off.

OP didn't say CIS is off in this thread, though.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, the problem is people get too hung up on tiers and names and don't pay attention to powerset enough.

Galactus can be a cosmic all he wants. He doesn't have the feats to suggest that Barry can't blitz the hell out of him. Barry may or may not be able to ko him, but Galactus wouldn't be able to put up an offense himself.

It's more like people warp powersets to the point where characters aren't even fighting in character. And it's not even powersets in the end; it's specifically speed which is blown entirely out of proportion.

And Galactus wastes Barry.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Cool. He has a broken power set, just like x amount of characters.

Doesn't mean he'll actively do all of that in a typical fight where he's fighting in character and decades worth of comics support that. I just find it funny how anyone with superspeed gets a pass to become some kind of CIS off, superspeed blitzing, Speed Force dumping, speed stealing, God like being, but characters with wide open ended power sets such as a Green Lantern or Silver Surfer don't get the same benefit of the doubt. Not CIS off. CIS on doesn't change his perceptions nor the fact that he should at least to the best of his abilities dodge attacks which at his speed means he's outrunning Omega Beams/attacks as fast as the Black Racer. That's consistent PIS not CIS.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Speed's important enough in the grand scheme of things, but when you extrapolate superspeed to the point where these characters cease to be themselves and begin hitting billions of times under a forum setting and can hit with galaxy level force and solo an untold number of herald level beings when they've clearly have not done anything close to that in their actual comics, it becomes a joke.

In character or what not doesn't matter, CIS/WIS is off. The characters get to do what is specifically within their abilities to do. Speed is simply that important, when your opponent can't hit you or even perceive you, that trumps everything else--unless the character is simply durable enough to withstand everything which would just make for an endless stalemate. The Hulk would literally be a statue to Barry. There is no possibly argument to make that the Hulk would 'eventually' land a hit, there is no such thing possible when the speed difference is that great. Maybe if someone was only a few multiples faster, but not by magnitudes that would make a puddle vs an ocean seem like a conservative analogy.


Let's make a Barry vs Galactus thread though, no joke.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
In character or what not doesn't matter, CIS/WIS is off. The characters get to do what is specifically within their abilities to do. Speed is simply that important, when your opponent can't hit you or even perceive you, that trumps everything else--unless the character is simply durable enough to withstand everything which would just make for an endless stalemate. The Hulk would literally be a statue to Barry. There is no possibly argument to make that the Hulk would 'eventually' land a hit, there is no such thing possible when the speed difference is that great. Maybe if someone was only a few multiples faster, but not by magnitudes that would make a puddle vs an ocean seem like a conservative analogy.


Let's make a Barry vs Galactus thread though, no joke.

CIS/WIS isn't off, though. It's just weird that with speed, we write off every instance of them being tagged or slowed down as PIS, accept every high showing as the norm, and place it on this warped pedestal that completely undermines what the intent of said power and character is. Worse, you get people who truly believe the Flash is bordering on abstract level of power and is a literal god above gods.

If you're serious about it, that's fine by me, but we've already had a Zoom/Galactus thread (and I think Wally/Galactus, too) and it devolved into sheer idiocy before too long.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
OP didn't say CIS is off in this thread, though.

I meant PIS.

CIS just means a character is limited by their intelligence, and in Barry's case we have enough examples of him being smart with his powers to know this isn't the case.

It's no weirder than when we write off a brick having trouble with weight he's bettered thousands of times over. Somethings are just outright determinable as bullshit.

Like Captain Cold ever standing a chance against a Flash level character in a random encounter at all. Hell, by principle that's far more atrocious than even something as ridiculous as Hulk getting choked out by a large boa.

Thor wins

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Depends on how hard you want to speed wank.

fixed

Thor would pull something out if his ass to stop flash

Originally posted by DickBlazer
Thor would pull something out if his ass to stop flash hammer to face usually does the trick 2.

Originally posted by DickBlazer
Thor would pull something out if his ass to stop flash

Flash would certainly pull something out if his ass (AKA Speed Force).

Originally posted by Damborgson
hammer to face usually does the trick 2. how does he do that when his neurons have all kinetic energy stolen from them and he can't even respond.

Originally posted by Uriel005
how does he do that when his neurons have all kinetic energy stolen from them and he can't even respond.

Walter West messed with brain impulses, and while I'm sure Barry could duplicate the feat, it'd probably be ooc, given how dangerous messing with someones basic biology could be..

Originally posted by cdtm
Walter West messed with brain impulses, and while I'm sure Barry could duplicate the feat, it'd probably be ooc, given how dangerous messing with someones basic biology could be.. I meant a complete speedsteal to the point where he is completely frozen thought process and all due to the lack of neurological activity.