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Team alien or Team Flash?

Bar nuking the battlefield, I don't see team 1 winning a majority.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Bar nuking the battlefield, I don't see team 1 winning a majority.

team 2..

Team 1.

I try not to wank Flashes too hard.

Originally posted by Cogito
Team 1.

I try not to wank Flashes too hard.

Supes speedblitz! Oh, wait.
Manhunter goes intangible and shuts down their minds.

Can the Flashes outrun telepathy?

I don't think so. Even if Manhunter doesn't take them down, he surely can go intangible and slow them down enough for Supes or himself to smack them a couple of good times (which would be enough).

Team 1 FTW for this reason 9/10.

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
Can the Flashes outrun telepathy?

I don't think so. Even if Manhunter doesn't take them down, he surely can go intangible and slow them down enough for Supes or himself to smack them a couple of good times (which would be enough).

Team 1 FTW for this reason 9/10.

it was shown in Flash Rebirth that the Flash has a defense against telepathy..and the Flash can go intangible too..so what u said won't work..

Originally posted by JakeTheBank




Could not resist.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
it was shown in Flash Rebirth that the Flash has a defense against telepathy..and the Flash can go intangible too..so what u said won't work..

If the Flash can always resist it, how can you explain all the times Gorilla Grodd got his mental hands on him?

I call BS

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
If the Flash can always resist it, how can you explain all the times Gorilla Grodd got his mental hands on him?

I call BS

i don't know..i'm only telling u what the latest Flash can do..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i don't know..i'm only telling u what the latest Flash can do..

He may can resist it, but I don't think he's immune.

I think Manhunter could make him struggle with it, that'll slow him down and give my scenario clout

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
He may can resist it, but I don't think he's immune.

I think Manhunter could make him struggle with it, that'll slow him down and give my scenario clout

the Flash can still go intangible to avoid physical contact..or he can just take away Supes and MM speed which means they will be way too fast for Supes and MM..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
the Flash can still go intangible to avoid physical contact..or he can just take away Supes and MM speed which means they will be way too fast for Supes and MM..

How can he take it away?

He can move faster in general, but he's not THAT much faster than Supes.......historically.

an intangible MM can't be touched by Flash (as long as he doesn't do the fetal position thing that MM always does on the toon)

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
How can he take it away?

He can move faster in general, but he's not THAT much faster than Supes.......historically.

an intangible MM can't be touched by Flash (as long as he doesn't do the fetal position thing that MM always does on the toon)

u don't know Flash can take away someone else speed??

Originally posted by Cogito
Team 1.

f the Flashes

hasn't worked against Zoom before.

I'm goin on lotta past fights, and I see nothing that gets them past SUpes and MM

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
hasn't worked against Zoom before.

I'm goin on lotta past fights, and I see nothing that gets them past SUpes and MM

Supes and MM isn't Zoom..Zoom doesn't use speed...the guy manipulate time..Wally take away inertia speed and turn him into a statue..Flash can take away speed..that's a fact..everyone knows that..i'm surprise u didn't know..

in a comic..yeah..i don't see them winning..but this isn't a comic..this is a forum fight..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Supes and MM isn't Zoom..Zoom doesn't use speed...the guy manipulate time..Wally take away inertia speed and turn him into a statue..Flash can take away speed..that's a fact..everyone knows that..i'm surprise u didn't know..

in a comic..yeah..i don't see them winning..but this isn't a comic..this is a forum fight..

and it has been fun debating this with you btw.

I still say it's a majority for team 1 due to the versatility of the two. Flash is a one trick pony

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
and it has been fun debating this with you btw.

I still say it's a majority for team 1 due to the versatility of the two. Flash is a one trick pony

same here..

agree to disagree then

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
How can he take it away?

He can move faster in general, but he's not THAT much faster than Supes.......historically.

an intangible MM can't be touched by Flash (as long as he doesn't do the fetal position thing that MM always does on the toon) been consistently stated by Flash/Supes that when they have their little races Barry holds back considerably. Also Flash's TP resistance is variable based on storyline for plot reasons and IIRC is explained that he accelerates his thoughts too quickly to be processed by a TP to do any kind of altercation.

Like most of Flash's shown abilities his TP resistance is usually ignored because the way writers explain his abilities have damning implications when it comes to writing a story due to the way they can be abused. I mean a flash seriously trying full steam with no CIS is always going to speedforce dump/ speed steal/ IMP spam/spam punches faster than anything in the universe can react. Mind you at the least this applies after rebirth. I've said it somewhere else that as of Flashpoint I think Flash may have been removed from the timeline as Zoom was because he retained his memories of the alternate timeline after he corrected them which going along with the rest of Flashpoint should have caused him to lose all memories of the alternate timeline.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
same here..

agree to disagree then Agreed one trick ponies are not necessarily going to be a bad thing. I mean Hulk is a one trick pony and I don't see carver complaining that he's suddenly capable of destroying at the least the immediate area of the dark dimension.

Anyways my point is having one trick is not necessarily bad if that one trick lets you murder everyone else competing with you.

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
How can he take it away?

He can move faster in general, but he's not THAT much faster than Supes.......historically.

an intangible MM can't be touched by Flash (as long as he doesn't do the fetal position thing that MM always does on the toon)

Both of those Flashes are faster than Superman, and they could very well steal the speed from both J'onn and Clark. The telepathy angle is something to worry about though, at least for Wally.

So Wally against two heralds?

Grodd stated it was hard to get in Wally's head. Something to do with SF, IIRC.

Barry will be exploring the SF more and amping up his thinking speed.

**** this, Jonn and Superman.


Honest to god, KMC has such a ridiculous opinion of Flash. **** everyone involved in this thread for making me simutaneously agree with Pr and declare Superman a winner.

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
Can the Flashes outrun telepathy?


he speeds up his brain and mm can't affect him with tp. he's not immune and it has to be actively done.

flashes win.

Originally posted by leonidas
he speeds up his brain and mm can't affect him with tp. he's not immune and it has to be actively done.

flashes win.

Did he ever do that more than once? I think he did it once when fighting against BL Manhunter (he did do good against flash with his telepathy but then flash did the whole speed up the brain thing).

Originally posted by Martian_mind
**** this, Jonn and Superman.


Honest to god, KMC has such a ridiculous opinion of Flash. **** everyone involved in this thread for making me simutaneously agree with Pr and declare Superman a winner. Accept the fact that the Flash is broken... As much as I support him I wish he was nerfed in Flashpoint and went to a Jay Garrick level afterwards. SF in general is ass broken.

The Flashs could speed blitz them both before MM can do any telepathy

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Honest to god, KMC has such a ridiculous opinion of Flash.

It's not really ridiculous when they have actually done it. Don't make me pull out the Pre-Crisis Barry Allen feats.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
It's not really ridiculous when they have actually done it. Don't make me pull out the Pre-Crisis Barry Allen feats. Even as of Rebirth he's stupidly powerful

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Did he ever do that more than once? I think he did it once when fighting against BL Manhunter (he did do good against flash with his telepathy but then flash did the whole speed up the brain thing).

i want to say yes, but i don't think it was barry. one of them flat out outran a tp attack as well at one point.

speedster threads are useless because they are essentially indefensible. someone debating against a flash needs to summon cis to make a case, but there are so many instances of flashes doing stupidly powerful things that these things CAN be seen as in-character to some degree. to add to the difficulty is the fact that anytime a flash IS hit it's summarily dismissed as pis. what's more common, flash getting hit in a battle, or flash stealing speed? the threads will always end the same way, with people arguing powerset and extrapolating things to some ludicrous level and the opposition citing cis and examples that the other side claim are nothing more than pis. and it's practucally impossible for a marvel character to debate against a flash because there is no analog to flash in marvel and hence no proof a marvel character can react to a flash-level fast character. so, yeah. what's the point?

Originally posted by leonidas
i want to say yes, but i don't think it was barry. one of them flat out outran a tp attack as well at one point.

speedster threads are useless because they are essentially indefensible. someone debating against a flash needs to summon cis to make a case, but there are so many instances of flashes doing stupidly powerful things that these things CAN be seen as in-character to some degree. to add to the difficulty is the fact that anytime a flash IS hit it's summarily dismissed as pis. what's more common, flash getting hit in a battle, or flash stealing speed? the threads will always end the same way, with people arguing powerset and extrapolating things to some ludicrous level and the opposition citing cis and examples that the other side claim are nothing more than pis. and it's practucally impossible for a marvel character to debate against a flash because there is no analog to flash in marvel and hence no proof a marvel character can react to a flash-level fast character. so, yeah. what's the point? you've hit the nail on the head there. That's why I'm holding out for a powers retcon to severely limit Barry to encourage more character consistency rather than give him feats and abilities that he pulls out years apart with no explanation as to why he doesn't use them regularly or why someone like Cold/90% of his rogues gallery has even a remote chance against him.

Originally posted by leonidas
i want to say yes, but i don't think it was barry. one of them flat out outran a tp attack as well at one point.

speedster threads are useless because they are essentially indefensible. someone debating against a flash needs to summon cis to make a case, but there are so many instances of flashes doing stupidly powerful things that these things CAN be seen as in-character to some degree. to add to the difficulty is the fact that anytime a flash IS hit it's summarily dismissed as pis. what's more common, flash getting hit in a battle, or flash stealing speed? the threads will always end the same way, with people arguing powerset and extrapolating things to some ludicrous level and the opposition citing cis and examples that the other side claim are nothing more than pis. and it's practucally impossible for a marvel character to debate against a flash because there is no analog to flash in marvel and hence no proof a marvel character can react to a flash-level fast character. so, yeah. what's the point? Who in DC can react to a Flash-level fast character in DC? CIS or no CIS? Unless the answer is "no DC character other than Flash/Zoom-level characters can react" then I don't see the issue as being a DC vs. Marvel dichotomy. It's more of a Flash/Zoom vs. everyone else issue.

^ Superman can and has reacted to thawne. It's johns' wanking that made flash so much faster than kal, otherwise historically it's just as a famous rivalry as captain marvel/superman or thor/hulk.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^ Superman can and has reacted to thawne. It's johns' wanking that made flash so much faster than kal, otherwise historically it's just as a famous rivalry as captain marvel/superman or thor/hulk.
wanking or not
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6028/57475289.jpg

also can't remember the issue but Flash and Supes are in a diner discussing Flash and his speed. It's a point where the issue of attosecond perception is brought up as Flash's standard level of perception.

Johns with his retconning.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Johns with his retconning. I hope to god it happens Barry needs a good beating with a nerf bat but until it happens completely broken...

Originally posted by Uriel005
I hope to god it happens Barry needs a good beating with a nerf bat but until it happens completely broken...

I'm just hoping he treats Aquaman more like Hal than he does Barry.

Originally posted by Uriel005
wanking or not
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6028/57475289.jpg

also can't remember the issue but Flash and Supes are in a diner discussing Flash and his speed. It's a point where the issue of attosecond perception is brought up as Flash's standard level of perception. You really think Superman is keeping pace with attosecond timing during his diner conversation with Flash?



Whatever. Please. Explain it to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, after all.

Superman does have an attosecond feat, iirc. Damn, where's Philo when I need him...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You really think Superman is keeping pace with attosecond timing during his diner conversation with Flash?



Whatever. Please. Explain it to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, after all. well everyone else appeared frozen in the diner compared to them.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You really think Superman is keeping pace with attosecond timing during his diner conversation with Flash?



Whatever. Please. Explain it to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, after all.

I'm confused. Are you denying the diner conversation happened? What are you getting at?

^ Think about it for a second, willya? Originally posted by Uriel005
well everyone else appeared frozen in the diner compared to them. So I stretch out a 10 minute conversation with someone out of 1 second. That's like 10 minutes, or 600 seconds, instead of 1 second. So that's like being 600x faster than human speed.

Of course, it's Superman so he's like 1,000,000,000,000,000x human speed (that's attosecond speed btw).

Awesome. Yeah, that makes sense.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Think about it for a second, willya? So I stretch out a 10 minute conversation with someone out of 1 second. That's like 10 minutes, or 600 seconds, instead of 1 second. So that's like being 600x faster than human speed.

Of course, it's Superman so he's like 1,000,000,000,000,000x human speed (that's attosecond speed btw).

Awesome. Yeah, that makes sense.

Except you made up 1 second. A lot of movement happens in one second. In one second a dropped cup would hit the floor.

In the scene, the whole thing happened and nothing had moved at all

Originally posted by Cogito
Except you made up 1 second. A lot of movement happens in one second. In one second a dropped cup would hit the floor.

In the scene, the whole thing happened and nothing had moved at all ... no, a cup wouldn't hit the floor in 1 second.

If you really want to get technical over this, look at the orientation of the waitress as time stops and when it resumes.

Seriously.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... no, a cup wouldn't hit the floor in 1 second.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you really want to get technical over this
A cup, in one second, would fall 4.9 meters or about 16 feet. If you want to get technical.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Seriously.

Seriously.

Originally posted by Cogito
A cup, in one second, would fall 4.9 meters or about 16 feet. If you want to get technical.

Seriously. Oh, granted your estimation, then in 1/16 second that cup would have fell one foot. So, 1 ft/sec (sort of). Which is basically 10x human speed.

Of course, when discussing attosecond speeds, 1,000,000,000,000,000x human speed it's like the same thing, amirite?

And no, I'm pretty sure a cup wouldn't hit the floor in one second anyway unless you're at terminal speed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oh, granted your estimation, then in 1/16 second that cup would have fell one foot. So, 1 ft/sec (sort of). Which is basically 10x human speed.

While this isn't a coherent thought, even if it were it's displaying gross ignorance of physics and gravity. It's an exponential speed increase until it reaches terminal velocity (which it wouldn't, obviously).

Originally posted by Cogito
While this isn't a coherent thought, even if it were it's displaying gross ignorance of physics and gravity. It's an exponential speed increase until it reaches terminal velocity (which it wouldn't, obviously). Ah, so basically you assume with utter reckless abandon that time stopped to the tune of 1,000,000,000,000,000x human speed. I get it though: in your opinion that cup would have fallen 16 feet in 1 sec. That's the American school system for you. But, whatever. Ok. Like I said, even granted your estimation...

... somehow you extrapolated 1,000,000,000,000,000x human speed from that.

Do me a favor, get your head out of your a$$. Seriously. It's not your fault. Pretty much all DC speed proponents who think DC speed > Marvel speed act this way anyway. But seriously. WTF?

Originally posted by -Pr-
how often does wally use IMP's? that's a forum tactic.

there goes the flash blitz possibility

Originally posted by psycho gundam


Funnily enough, I'd never write the Flash as using an IMP in a fight. Something like kinetic energy steal is always better.

Nice try though. uhuh

Originally posted by -Pr-
Funnily enough, I'd never write the Flash as using an IMP in a fight. Something like kinetic energy steal is always better.

Nice try though. uhuh i edited

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i edited

F*cker.

I can see them blitzing, just not with physical attacks. Unless you don't consider a speed steal a blitz.

cis prevents that also

imho, this is team one's fight to lose

Originally posted by psycho gundam
cis prevents that also

imho, this is team one's fight to lose

I don't see how CIS would prevent it. It's a non-lethal, valid tactic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't see how CIS would prevent it. It's a non-lethal, valid tactic. against this team a couple of IMP's isn't really lethal. Also only threat is MM TP Supes is shown to be slower and won't be tagging the pair.

Originally posted by Uriel005
against this team a couple of IMP's isn't really lethal. Also only threat is MM TP Supes is shown to be slower and won't be tagging the pair.

Oh, I thought he meant the speed stealing. My mistake.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ah, so basically you assume with utter reckless abandon that time stopped to the tune of 1,000,000,000,000,000x human speed. I get it though: in your opinion that cup would have fallen 16 feet in 1 sec. That's the American school system for you. But, whatever. Ok. Like I said, even granted your estimation...

Typical, you spin it around and make it look like I'm an ass for using facts, when your entire argument is based on your opinion that it couldn't have taken place in an attosecond. You have no facts to back up your side so you resort to the insult game. That's cool, if that's all you've got to work with.

I'm confused as to how gravity is my "opinion". You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... somehow you extrapolated 1,000,000,000,000,000x human speed from that.

I never said the conversation happened in an attosecond.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Do me a favor, get your head out of your a$$. Seriously. It's not your fault.

hmm Your misplaced insults have convinced me of the truth behind your words. notworthy

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Pretty much all DC speed proponents who think DC speed > Marvel speed act this way anyway. But seriously. WTF?

DC speed is greater than Marvel speed. That's based on feats. I'm sorry that Marvel doesn't have them. I'm sorry that Marvel doesn't apparently want to have them. I'm sorry that you're a god damn crybaby because things aren't the way you want them to be.

Originally posted by Cogito
Typical, you spin it around and make it look like I'm an ass for using facts, when your entire argument is based on your opinion that it couldn't have taken place in an attosecond. You have no facts to back up your side so you resort to the insult game. That's cool, if that's all you've got to work with. Oh, really? Originally posted by Cogito
I never said the conversation happened in an attosecond.Let me know when you figure it out so that I don't have to accuse you of moving the goalposts. Here I thought you were defending Ureil005's claims. Originally posted by Cogito
DC speed is greater than Marvel speed. That's based on feats. I'm sorry that Marvel doesn't have them. I'm sorry that Marvel doesn't apparently want to have them. I'm sorry that you're a god damn crybaby because things aren't the way you want them to be. This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I get it though. You don't want it pointed out that Kang has feats like Flash. Don't worry, that secret's between us.

Originally posted by Cogito




DC speed is greater than Marvel speed. That's based on feats. I'm sorry that Marvel doesn't have them. I'm sorry that Marvel doesn't apparently want to have them. I'm sorry that you're a god damn crybaby because things aren't the way you want them to be.

Isnt the runner from Marvel Flash quality speed?

Originally posted by Whiteclipse
Isnt the runner from Marvel Flash quality speed? marvel doesn't really seem to care about flash-like characters, so no. however, there are instances where they do show the weight of having high level speed, for example when makkari was stuck in "hyper mode" after the galactic race, only the runner and fast-forward (a barry allen homage character) were able to speak with him. every other being in the planet was frozen as they were out of synch with the level of speed they were operating at until makkari was cured off-panel was

makkari is usually the only one they really touch on when it comes to flash like feats, and he's only sporadic in appearance, every several years or so these days.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Who in DC can react to a Flash-level fast character in DC? CIS or no CIS? Unless the answer is "no DC character other than Flash/Zoom-level characters can react" then I don't see the issue as being a DC vs. Marvel dichotomy. It's more of a Flash/Zoom vs. everyone else issue.

some of flash's rogues, basically. zoom, impulse, inertia, etc. legion has had uber speedsters as well. superman has some crazy speed feats, but not highest flash level. we'll disagree on the dichotomy, at least to an extent. uber speed (even if it's not at the level of flash) is a basic part of a lot of dc's characters while it is not the same in marvel. that's not to say SOME marvel guys don't have great speed feats, but certainly nothing on the level of the flashes.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You really think Superman is keeping pace with attosecond timing during his diner conversation with Flash?



Whatever. Please. Explain it to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, after all.
Originally posted by Uriel005
wanking or not
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6028/57475289.jpg

also can't remember the issue but Flash and Supes are in a diner discussing Flash and his speed. It's a point where the issue of attosecond perception is brought up as Flash's standard level of perception.

by the way where in this does it say anywhere that superman is keeping up with an attosecond conversation. I'm curious... here I'll let you read it again..


also can't remember the issue but Flash and Supes are in a diner discussing Flash and his speed. It's a point where the issue of attosecond perception is brought up as Flash's standard level of perception.

don't see anywhere in here anything about me mentioning superman and any level of speed in there. The intention of the context of the comic was to point out Barry was faster IIRC...

Originally posted by Uriel005
don't see anywhere in here anything about me mentioning superman and any level of speed in there. The intention of the context of the comic was to point out Barry was faster IIRC...

Don't worry, he's just trolling hard and throwing around bogus claims and opinions while making it seem like he's always been in the right here.

Just ignore it.

^ I get it, nice quaneuvers. I start ridiculing the association of attosecond timing with that scene, you both start defending that notion with several replies to the ridicule, and now all of a sudden, neither of you were ever trying to claim otherwise during the entire course of that conversation. Classic.

Someone call the groundskeeper, the goalposts, they've been moved. Getting you both to separate attosecond timing from that speed-eating pie feat is reason enough to end this conversation though.

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
Can the Flashes outrun telepathy?

I don't think so. Even if Manhunter doesn't take them down, he surely can go intangible and slow them down enough for Supes or himself to smack them a couple of good times (which would be enough).

Team 1 FTW for this reason 9/10.


if telepathy works on the flashes supes and MM can win, but thats the only way.

it wouldn't work here since they know who they are facing and could both speed their brains up to make themselves immune to mm's tp.

Team 2 easily.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I get it, nice quaneuvers. I start ridiculing the association of attosecond timing with that scene, you both start defending that notion with several replies to the ridicule, and now all of a sudden, neither of you were ever trying to claim otherwise during the entire course of that conversation. Classic.

Someone call the groundskeeper, the goalposts, they've been moved. Getting you both to separate attosecond timing from that speed-eating pie feat is reason enough to end this conversation though.

Sorry your reading comprehension is kindergarten level, but I only asked if you denied the diner scene happened, which you basically did.

Originally posted by Uriel005
wanking or not
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6028/57475289.jpg

also can't remember the issue but Flash and Supes are in a diner discussing Flash and his speed. It's a point where the issue of attosecond perception is brought up as Flash's standard level of perception. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/th_Superspeed1.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/th_Superspeed2.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/th_Superspeed3.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/th_Superspeed4.jpg

Originally posted by Cogito
Sorry your reading comprehension is kindergarten level, but I only asked if you denied the diner scene happened, which you basically did. You can go back and look at what I stated. I denied that it happened at attosecond level, because that's what I thought was being insinuated. That's literally a billionth upon billionth of a second. Then you started objecting to my refutation. So I thought you were taking the opposite stance, that it did happen at attosecond level. Then you didn't (apparently). Just that it happened at all. Of course it happened. Just that based on the orientation of the waitress and the stuff she dropped from beginning of time-slowing down to when Flash started reorganizing stuff, I'm not going to assume it happened at ridiculous superspeeds never seen in Marvel -- which is something people keep insinuating (but never you, of course).