Celestials Vs Galactus Engine

guy222

The Celestials were among those in battle with Galactus, Tenebrous and Aegis. Aegis 'perished'. Celestials and Tenebrous weren't around when Big G was engaged in battle with the huge GE. Many assume, the Celestials were 'destroyed' but that theory should b debunked because Arishem and company wanna pass judgment again on Earth in the X-Men which makes no sense in the lil storyline I read. It does lend credence, if they were 'destroyed'. Tiamut has stated the Celestials cannot b destroyed and that's awesome

Slaanesh

if i'm not mistaken..in Marvel The End..even Galactus think the Celestials cannot be kill..

Utrigita

Originally posted by guy222
The Celestials were among those in battle with Galactus, Tenebrous and Aegis. Aegis 'perished'. Celestials and Tenebrous weren't around when Big G was engaged in battle with the huge GE. Many assume, the Celestials were 'destroyed' but that theory should b debunked because Arishem and company wanna pass judgment again on Earth in the X-Men which makes no sense in the lil storyline I read. It does lend credence, if they were 'destroyed'. Tiamut has stated the Celestials cannot b destroyed and that's awesome

To be completely fair guy, Exitar form was destroyed so the claim is not entirely correct, and that is what I personally think happened (if they didn't pull back) that the physical form of the Celestials was destroyed and well, as said by Uatu concerning Exitar, the Celestials simply reform over time.

TheLordofMurder

Originally posted by quanchi112
laughing out loud

This is freaking comedy gold!!

Only and I mean only Big-C could think up this thread...

LoL!!!

laughing out loud

guy222

morning eternal friend

celestials are awesome aren't they

stick out tongue

where would u place em in the hierarchy

Lord Feron

Just wanna say the double page spread of the celestials, abstracts, and other big guns attempting to push back the Galactus Engine was EPIC!!!

TheLordofMurder

Originally posted by guy222
morning eternal friend

celestials are awesome aren't they

stick out tongue

where would u place em in the hierarchy

Good morning! smile

Marvel (as well as some others on this forum) might disagree with me, but I honestly feel that they should rank behind Galactus and all the other Abstracts...

I'd rank the comicbook hierarchy as follows:

1) TOAA...
2) Living Tribunal...
3) Eternity/Death/Oblivion/Infinity/Order/Chaos...
4) Galactus/Inbetweener...
5) Love/Hate...
6) Special Celestials...
7) Common Celestials...
8) Cube Beings...
9) Elder Gods...
10) Skyfathers...
11) Trans...
12) Heralds...
13) Meta's...
14) Street Levelers...

Thats just my honest opinion on how they should all rank, but like I said, I know all will not share this opinion...

Bentley

The Galactus Engine can bust an universe with its abstracts, what have the Celestials done to match that? shifty

guy222

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Good morning! smile

guy222

Originally posted by Bentley
The Galactus Engine can bust an universe with its abstracts, what have the Celestials done to match that? shifty

i don't know my friend

stick out tongue

brownqk

Galactus Engine.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes. no, again

there was a standoff. aegis' death isn't really something you can ascribe from the galactus dildo at all.

ahmazing

Originally posted by guy222
The Celestials were among those in battle with Galactus, Tenebrous and Aegis. Aegis 'perished'. Celestials and Tenebrous weren't around when Big G was engaged in battle with the huge GE. Many assume, the Celestials were 'destroyed' but that theory should b debunked because Arishem and company wanna pass judgment again on Earth in the X-Men which makes no sense in the lil storyline I read. It does lend credence, if they were 'destroyed'. Tiamut has stated the Celestials cannot b destroyed and that's awesome

To be fair, Aegis was killed by the Many Angled Ones and not the Galactus Engine, while Tenebrous simply went MIA.

Several Celestials + Galactus fought the GE head-on and when the dust settled, it was revealed that all the Celestials had either fled or died while only Galactus remained. It's safe to say that GE > 4 Celestials + Galactus.

However, I highly doubt that the GE alone would be enough to defeat the entire Celestial race, as their population is numbering in the millions?

Celestial stomps.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by ahmazing
Several Celestials + Galactus fought the GE head-on and when the dust settled, it was revealed that all the Celestials had either fled or died while only Galactus remained. It's safe to say that GE > 4 Celestials + Galactus. huh? where was any of this revealed?

ahmazing

Originally posted by psycho gundam
huh? where was any of this revealed?

Serious question?

Have you actually read the Thanos Imperative?

Colossus-Big C

Toaa
Living Tribunal
MJJ ,
Vishanti ,Slorith, Abraxas, Chaos King
Eternity, Death, Oblivion ,Infinity, order, Chaos
Inbetweener, Galactus, Celestials, Shuma gorath, Franklin Richards
Love Hate
Kube Beings
Elder Gods
Skfathers

Galan007

Kubik can casually warp an entire universe:

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4452/90353438.th.jpg

Kubik stated that even his powers were infinitely inferior to a no-name Celestial's:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4633/53158113.th.jpg

A+B=Celestials > Galactus. That is all. excellent

psycho gundam

which issue are we talking about here? it showed some celestials holding their ground, then next time it appears it gets destroyed by death with galactus in front of it.

ahmazing

Originally posted by psycho gundam
which issue are we talking about here? it showed some celestials holding their ground, then next time it appears it gets destroyed by death with galactus in front of it.

Exactly. Did you count the missing Celestials? Where could have they went? More importantly, what happened to them?

KuRuPT Thanosi

Originally posted by Galan007
Kubik can casually warp an entire universe:

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4452/90353438.th.jpg

Kubik stated that even his powers were infinitely inferior to a no-name Celestial's:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4633/53158113.th.jpg

A+B=Celestials > Galactus. That is all. excellent

Then again, sans Scathan... no celestial has a feat that comes close to what Cubes have done on panel... if we go by feats.. cubes > celestials. While the Kubik statement has "some" relevance it isn't the be all end all as we know. Narration can only go so far and can sometimes (maybe in this case) be attributed to hyperbole. The fact is, cubes have greater feats of power than celestials have shown.

Colossus-Big C

Originally posted by ahmazing
Exactly. Did you count the missing Celestials? Where could have they went? More importantly, what happened to them? Nothing happen to them, they were seen in a recent comic

The celestial most likely left to face some other threat

Colossus-Big C

ahmazing

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Nothing happen to them, they were seen in a recent comic

The celestial most likely left to face some other threat

/facepalm

Galan007

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Then again, sans Scathan... no celestial has a feat that comes close to what Cubes have done on panel... if we go by feats.. cubes > celestials. While the Kubik statement has "some" relevance it isn't the be all end all as we know. Narration can only go so far and can sometimes (maybe in this case) be attributed to hyperbole. The fact is, cubes have greater feats of power than celestials have shown. Yeah, I was being horribly sarcastic. In fact, I've actually argued that Kubik's one statement doesn't outweigh the fact that Celestials have feats nowhere near that level.

However, I still think Celestials (from the 4th Host on, at least) are more powerful than Galactus on average. Just MO.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by ahmazing
Exactly. Did you count the missing Celestials? Where could have they went? More importantly, what happened to them? you can't see galactus in the first instance i was talking about, but when the thing was dying he re-appears.

i just chalked it up to the scale of the battlefield being humongous. the celestials are 2000 feet tall on average and they were spread out a good ways, plus the engine thing was pretty close and that thing is gigantic.

nobody said they died, and there was no dead or dying celestials on-panel = i'm not even thinking they did cause i have no reason to.

ahmazing

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you can't see galactus in the first instance i was talking about, but when the thing was dying he re-appears.

i just chalked it up to the scale of the battlefield being humongous. the celestials are 2000 feet tall on average and they were spread out a good ways, plus the engine thing was pretty close and that thing is gigantic.

nobody said they died, and there was no dead or dying celestials on-panel = i'm not even thinking they did cause i have no reason to.

Reread my posts.

psycho gundam

i rather read the comic cause it can't lie to me

besides, on-panel, aegis was destroyed by some squids or whatever, not a feat you can tack onto the engine at all so this is moot to be honest

Galan007

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i rather read the comic cause it can't lie to me clapclap

Best post ever.

Utrigita

Originally posted by psycho gundam
no, again

there was a standoff. aegis' death isn't really something you can ascribe from the galactus dildo at all.

What exactly was the Cancerverse then fielding that would be capable of performing the feat?

But then again what you are doing is basically imo completely ignoring what Surfer told us on panel, that even though the Galactus Engine didn't appear to be doing anything, there was already a full confrontation going on in the abstract scale, which Surfer and the rest would only see the consequances of, one of those was the death of Aegis. At least that imo is the logical conclusion given that it happened right after Surfer was done talking, but to each his own.

ahmazing

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i rather read the comic cause it can't lie to me

besides, on-panel, aegis was destroyed by some squids or whatever, not a feat you can tack onto the engine at all so this is moot to be honest

What the heck. Just reread my posts. There was never any need for you to quote my posts.

All of your quotes and comments regarding my posts clearly show that you have misunderstood them and that your comments are redundant.

Utrigita

Originally posted by Bentley
The Galactus Engine can bust an universe with its abstracts, what have the Celestials done to match that? shifty

How is the Galactus signature for Zopzop coming along btw?

psycho gundam

when she died, things burst through her face from the inside *shrug*

correction: galactus was indeed in front of the engine, i got him confused with ziran the tester at first.

Galan007

For what it's worth, I've never been of the opinion that the GE killed all of the cosmics, sans Galactus. I mean, look at how many Celestials there originally were at the frontline:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2585/thanimp2peterwattscps02.th.jpg

And if you recall, even all of the cosmics' collective power was barely enough to hold back the GE. That being said, I have a very hard time believing that Galactus was capable of holding back the GE all by his lonesome- especially considering his power would have been significantly less than what he started out with, by that point. Personally, I chalk it up to the artist simply not showing the scale of the battle, as he had before. /shrug

ahmazing

Originally posted by ahmazing
To be fair, Aegis was killed by the Many Angled Ones and not the Galactus Engine, while Tenebrous simply went MIA.

Several Celestials + Galactus fought the GE head-on and when the dust settled, it was revealed that all the Celestials had either fled or died while only Galactus remained. It's safe to say that GE > 4 Celestials + Galactus.

However, I highly doubt that the GE alone would be enough to defeat the entire Celestial race, as their population is numbering in the millions?

Celestial stomps.

I am going to have an aneurysm soon out of witnessing pure stupidity.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by Galan007
For what it's worth, I've never been of the opinion that the GE killed all of the cosmics, sans Galactus. I mean, look at how many Celestials there originally were at the frontline:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2585/thanimp2peterwattscps02.th.jpg

And if you recall, even all of the cosmics' collective power was barely enough to hold back the GE. That being said, I have a very hard time believing that Galactus was capable of holding back the GE all by his lonesome- especially considering his power would have been significantly less than what he started out with, by that point. Personally, I chalk it up to the artist simply not showing the scale of the battle, as he had before. /shrug exactly, and if you look at the shot of the celestials and galactus before the GE before it dies, the number of celestials is consistent with e scale of the field of view in both shots.

galactus was dead center the whole time, so there are just as many celestials (one can assume) on the other side of him

Utrigita

Originally posted by psycho gundam
when she died, things burst through her face from the inside *shrug*

correction: galactus was indeed in front of the engine, i got him confused with ziran the tester at first.

Which would seem to be consistent with the battle described to us by the Surfer. We can't perceive the assault but we can perceive the result.

KuRuPT Thanosi

I can see both sides here... If made to pick, I would take Utrigita and others.... Surfer flat out said we can't really perceive what is going on... next it was stated on panel that ALL of the abstracts combined were barely enough to hold back the engine as Galan quoted. So, what is logical then... if ALL of them could barely hold him off... then we see Gaalctus by himself.. I think the logical conclusion would be he at least killed some of them off.. maybe some other fled. But if they could barely hold him off that means the GE was significantly more powerful than individual celestials certainly and we saw Aegis die.. so why then would it be so tough to take the next logical step that at least some celestials also died? Whether he killed all the abstracts or not is up for debate.. whether he engine killed some abstracts and was certainly the most powerful being on the field.. I don't think there should be a question about.

psycho gundam

the only iffy thing is aegis' death, that's it. maybe she's just weaker than everyone else

Galan007

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I can see both sides here... If made to pick, I would take Utrigita and others.... Surfer flat out said we can't really perceive what is going on... next it was stated on panel that ALL of the abstracts combined were barely enough to hold back the engine as Galan quoted. So, what is logical then... if ALL of them could barely hold him off... then we see Gaalctus by himself.. I think the logical conclusion would be he at least killed some of them off.. maybe some other fled. But if they could barely hold him off that means the GE was significantly more powerful than individual celestials certainly and we saw Aegis die.. so why then would it be so tough to take the next logical step that at least some celestials also died? Whether he killed all the abstracts or not is up for debate.. whether he engine killed some abstracts and was certainly the most powerful being on the field.. I don't think there should be a question about. If it took Galactus (when he was presumably well-nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + numerous Celestials just to barely hold back the GE originally, then it's exceedingly difficult to imagine (a much weaker by that point) Galactus holding back the GE all by himself.

So while I can agree that there may have been other cosmics aside from Aegis that were killed/removed from the field- there is no way G was the only cosmic still alive. There logically had to have been others.

guy222

Being silly here, even if the Celestials were 'destroyed' they have returned proving Tiamut's words they cannot b destroyed that's awesome

For me, I hope Gillen's explanation follows continuity, we all know writers write differently telling a tale

Celestials are returning to help Tiamut WTF

We will see

I have ordered 20 of em

stick out tongue

Bentley

Originally posted by Utrigita
How is the Galactus signature for Zopzop coming along btw?

You're right, I had forgotten that he asked for a delay but now we confirmed that Galactus won. I'll tinker something for him tonight.

Utrigita

Originally posted by Galan007
If it took Galactus (when he was presumably well-nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + numerous Celestials just to barely hold back the GE originally, then it's exceedingly difficult to imagine (a much weaker by that point) Galactus holding back the GE all by himself.

So while I can agree that there may have been other cosmics aside from Aegis that were killed/removed from the field- there is no way G was the only cosmic still alive. There logically had to have been others.

Given that the GE is basically a alternate version of Galactus, I find it plausible that it was expending energy while fighting the 616 abstracts, or as I have mentioned before, it's possible that the other Abstracts broke off the engagement with the GE to combat the other abstracts that was coming in behind the GE.

Galan007

^ I dunno. Just seems like a whole lot of assumption. /shrug

jalek moye

Originally posted by Galan007
For what it's worth, I've never been of the opinion that the GE killed all of the cosmics, sans Galactus. I mean, look at how many Celestials there originally were at the frontline:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2585/thanimp2peterwattscps02.th.jpg

And if you recall, even all of the cosmics' collective power was barely enough to hold back the GE. That being said, I have a very hard time believing that Galactus was capable of holding back the GE all by his lonesome- especially considering his power would have been significantly less than what he started out with, by that point. Personally, I chalk it up to the artist simply not showing the scale of the battle, as he had before. /shrug

That or he pulled a hero move. Holding off the foe alone that he couldn't with his team just to be awesome. So otherwords pis

Bentley

Galactus exists to hold Life and Death at bay.

vince_slice

It was mentioned that the Galactus Engine was tearing through everything and that some abstracts were starting to retreat. It was mentioned by Blastaar. I assumed that the disapearance of so many celestials is because they either died or retreated like Blastaar mentioned.

GE should win this.

zopzop

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Then again, sans Scathan... no celestial has a feat that comes close to what Cubes have done on panel... if we go by feats.. cubes > celestials. While the Kubik statement has "some" relevance it isn't the be all end all as we know. Narration can only go so far and can sometimes (maybe in this case) be attributed to hyperbole. The fact is, cubes have greater feats of power than celestials have shown.

But if we go by fights Cube Beings are a joke. Who have they fought against? Have they won those fights? Feats are meaningless when you have high herald level characters like Thor shoring up the fabric of the MULTIVERSE wih his Godblast or two Mjolnirs clanging together causing a shockwave that spreads across the infinite universe and is compared to the Big Bang in power. roll eyes (sarcastic)

zopzop

Originally posted by jalek moye
That or he pulled a hero move. Holding off the foe alone that he couldn't with his team just to be awesome. So otherwords pis

Nah, let's give Galactus SOME credit. I just figured the Celestials and Teneberous realized it was pointless and left, leaving Galactus to go at it alone. Death then did her job and that was that.

CortSether

Originally posted by zopzop
But if we go by fights Cube Beings are a joke.

What Marvel characters aren't a joke to you? Happy Dance

zopzop

Originally posted by Bentley
You're right, I had forgotten that he asked for a delay but now we confirmed that Galactus won. I'll tinker something for him tonight.

I hate you stick out tongue

, but a deals a deal. At least Odin fans can take solace in the fact that Galactus wanted no part of the Odin/Destroyer combo and was forced into a humiliating truce by the end of the arc. Happy Dance

zopzop

Originally posted by CortSether
What Marvel characters aren't a joke to you? Happy Dance

Lots. But hype and hyperbole don't win you points with me.

Utrigita

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I dunno. Just seems like a whole lot of assumption. /shrug

So does the other point of view really.

Galan007

Originally posted by Utrigita
So does the other point of view really. True, but imo it's more logical to assume Galactus still had some help, then it is to assume he had no help at all.

...Unless you think he was capable of single-handedly holding back the GE in a weak(er) state than he started at..?

rotiart

Originally posted by guy222
Being silly here, even if the Celestials were 'destroyed' they have returned proving Tiamut's words they cannot b destroyed that's awesome

For me, I hope Gillen's explanation follows continuity, we all know writers write differently telling a tale

Celestials are returning to help Tiamut WTF

We will see

I have ordered 20 of em

stick out tongue

You run a comic shop guy?

Utrigita

Galan007

I disagree completely, but that's neither here nor there.

rotiart

Originally posted by zopzop
I hate you stick out tongue

Galactus wasn't forced into anything. Odin was the one who couldn't even stand on his own two feet.

cdtm

The seed was gone, so there was no reason for the war to continue.

That's the only reason Big G stood down.

zopzop

Originally posted by rotiart
Galactus wasn't forced into anything. Odin was the one who couldn't even stand on his own two feet.

I posted the scan, Galactus was FORCED into an unease truce with Asgard. There's really no denying it.

Galactus > Odin (barely). Odin/Destroyer > Galactus.

Nihilist

GE wins.

Celestial can be destroyed/killed thats why there is a head of a "dead" Celestial floating round space.

cdtm

Originally posted by zopzop
I posted the scan, Galactus was FORCED into an unease truce with Asgard. There's really no denying it.

That implies the seed being hidden had no bearing on the truce, and he would have agreed to it had he known where it was.

Which the story makes clear isn't the case. He wanted the seed, and would have continued fighting, but once Loki hid it he had no real reason to risk all fighting Asgard.

It was a pragmatic action, not one born of fear.

guy222

Originally posted by rotiart
You run a comic shop guy?

My friend does

30 year friendship

zopzop

Originally posted by cdtm
That implies the seed being hidden had no bearing on the truce, and he would have agreed to it had he known where it was.

Which the story makes clear isn't the case. He wanted the seed, and would have continued fighting, but once Loki hid it he had no real reason to risk all fighting Asgard.

It was a pragmatic action, not one born of fear.

The story also makes it clear that if he wanted to, he could have continued the search for the Seed. Read Surfer's dialogue :
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8528/themightythor06rizz3nem.th.jpg

But he was forced into a truce, in fact it was Team Cosmic that suggested the truce not the Asgardians.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by Galan007
I disagree completely, but that's neither here nor there. Im right there with you bro

rotiart

Originally posted by zopzop
The story also makes it clear that if he wanted to, he could have continued the search for the Seed. Read Surfer's dialogue :
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8528/themightythor06rizz3nem.th.jpg

But he was forced into a truce, in fact it was Team Cosmic that suggested the truce not the Asgardians.

I completely disagree with your intrepretstion. Galactus truce was only because he didn't want to search forever for it. You presume it's cause of a fear. That's not shown . Galactus makes no indication in the comic to back up his fear of te asgardians. He just didn't want to waste any more energy on them. And it wasn't as if galactus was even wanting to kill them either... Hence his stance about not wanting to waste lives.

Your interpreting is way off base

Power Cosmic II

Originally posted by Galan007
True, but imo it's more logical to assume Galactus still had some help, then it is to assume he had no help at all.

...Unless you think he was capable of single-handedly holding back the GE in a weak(er) state than he started at..?

The weakness of this argument is that assumption would directly fly in the face of Surfer's statement that Galactus was literally the only entity left to oppose the Engine (if my master cannot vanquish the obscene Galactus engine....). Your argument also makes the implicit assumption that Galactus had been holding it back by himself for any extended period of time, however his proximity to the GE's mouth makes clear that no matter how long or how short he had been fighting it alone, he was about to lose.

This is reinforced by the fact that Medusa implicitly concurs by ordering the remnants of the Shiar and Kree fleets closer "to directly support Galactus." The 5 or 8 members of the Nova Corps are also ordered to move in to support Galactus directly. This is clearly a commander committing all remaining resources into 1 specific point, not spread out like they began at the start of the battle.

The logical assumption to me is that all of the forces of the cosmic entities have either fled or been destroyed save Galactus, and the situation is so dire that Galactus is literally on the verge of being consumed himself.

If there were any celestials left...why does surfer make the statement that they are all doomed if Galactus falls to the GE? Why does medusa basically order an all-or-nothing assault by bringing all her reserves into the center? It's because they're acting in desperation. I'm pretty sure Medusa would refrain from sending the 8 novacorps members in to certain death if even 1 Celestial remained.

Edit: There's also the fact that Surfer had already been established as the reader's source of qualified information pertaining to the battle, as seen in his explanation to Quasar and Nova that conflict had began against the GE when both thought it was just a face-off between the cosmics and the GE. I.e., at no point is surfer portrayed as being unaware/uninformed/unsure of what was occurring on the battlefield.

zopzop

Originally posted by rotiart
I completely disagree with your intrepretstion. Galactus truce was only because he didn't want to search forever for it. You presume it's cause of a fear. That's not shown . Galactus makes no indication in the comic to back up his fear of te asgardians. He just didn't want to waste any more energy on them. And it wasn't as if galactus was even wanting to kill them either... Hence his stance about not wanting to waste lives.

Your interpreting is way off base

Then why does the Surfer say, once the Asgardians are dead (from old age or whatever), then Galactus can return and consume the Seed? He could have continued his search for the Seed but the Asgardians forced him into a truce.

Galan007

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
The weakness of this argument is that assumption would directly fly in the face of Surfer's statement that Galactus was literally the only entity left to oppose the Engine (if my master cannot vanquish the obscene Galactus engine....). Your argument also makes the implicit assumption that Galactus had been holding it back by himself for any extended period of time, however his proximity to the GE's mouth makes clear that no matter how long or how short he had been fighting it alone, he was about to lose.

This is reinforced by the fact that Medusa implicitly concurs by ordering the remnants of the Shiar and Kree fleets closer "to directly support Galactus." The 5 or 8 members of the Nova Corps are also ordered to move in to support Galactus directly. This is clearly a commander committing all remaining resources into 1 specific point, not spread out like they began at the start of the battle.

The logical assumption to me is that all of the forces of the cosmic entities have either fled or been destroyed save Galactus, and the situation is so dire that Galactus is literally on the verge of being consumed himself.

If there were any celestials left...why does surfer make the statement that they are all doomed if Galactus falls to the GE? Why does medusa basically order an all-or-nothing assault by bringing all her reserves into the center? It's because they're acting in desperation. I'm pretty sure Medusa would refrain from sending the 8 novacorps members in to certain death if even 1 Celestial remained.

Edit: There's also the fact that Surfer had already been established as the reader's source of qualified information pertaining to the battle, as seen in his explanation to Quasar and Nova that conflict had began against the GE when both thought it was just a face-off between the cosmics and the GE. I.e., at no point is surfer portrayed as being unaware/uninformed/unsure of what was occurring on the battlefield. And the weakness of your argument is the fact that you think G was able to, even momentarily, slow the progress of the GE by himself. Sorry, but by that point in time, G would have been significantly weaker then when the battle first began--and even when G was well nourished, he along with Tenebrous, Aegis, and numerous Celestials, were barely able to hold back the GE.

So if Galactus would have been the only cosmic left to hold back the Engine, he would have been destroyed with rapid succession, imo.

Eternal Idol

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why does the Surfer say, once the Asgardians are dead (from old age or whatever), then Galactus can return and consume the Seed? He could have continued his search for the Seed but the Asgardians forced him into a truce.

Um, it was the Surfer who proposed the truce in the first place.

Galactus' ultimate response to it was pretty much, "Yeah. Fine. Whatever. I'll just go eat a bunch of planets while you all go dick around with the Seed."

KuRuPT Thanosi

Originally posted by Galan007
And the weakness of your argument is the fact that you think G was able to, even momentarily, slow the progress of the GE by himself. Sorry, but by that point in time, G would have been significantly weaker then when the battle first began--and even when G was well nourished, he along with Tenebrous, Aegis, and numerous Celestials, were barely able to hold back the GE.

So if Galactus would have been the only cosmic left to hold back the Engine, he would have been destroyed with rapid succession, imo.

I understand your point friend, but as the saying goes, welcome to comics. We see nobody else there.. and we have surfer's narration. Whether it doesn't quite makes sense is kinda here nor there. IMO a worse premise is that the GE couldn't destroy any celestials or anybody else there.. when they could ALL barely hold him back and he alread killed Aegis.. which is what PG was trying to say.

rotiart

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why does the Surfer say, once the Asgardians are dead (from old age or whatever), then Galactus can return and consume the Seed? He could have continued his search for the Seed but the Asgardians forced him into a truce.

Cause they said before they knew were to find the seed... Now it can be anywhere thanks to Loki....

Bluff or not... It caused surfer to propose the truce. (remember this is the guy that sold himself to slavery to save the lives of people on his planet)

They did not force him into anything no matter how many times you say it.they just didn't want to spend the resources looking when galactus would rather feed... Hence his statement about losing a herald or even staying here Vs eating...

Galan007

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I understand your point friend, but as the saying goes, welcome to comics. We see nobody else there.. and we have surfer's narration. Whether it doesn't quite makes sense is kinda here nor there. IMO a worse premise is that the GE couldn't destroy any celestials or anybody else there.. when they could ALL barely hold him back and he alread killed Aegis.. which is what PG was trying to say. I agree that the GE may have very well killed off several of the cosmics. What I don't agree with is that a weakened Galactus was capable of holding back the GE all by himself--even for a moment. There's just no plausible way Galactus alone was able to do what he+Tenebrous+Aegis+numerous Celestials were all barely able to do beforehand. That would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Like I said: logically, there must have been other cosmics present. Just MO.

OneDumbG0

^ Galactus certainly seemed to be the last Abstract standing. If there were others, they weren't shown. If there were others, they probably would have been noted by Surfer. If there were others, so much attention on Galactus probably wouldn't have been laid.

Also, I think the Abstracts were certainly holding the GE off. I don't think they were "barely" holding it off. It's why Quasar said the GE wasn't doing anything and just sitting there in a standoff, prompting Surfer to chastise his limited perception. Eventually the Abstracts did start falling. But maybe the GE's power was being diminished at the same time the Abstracts' forces were being diminished.

On this note though, it was also alluded to by bystanders that the Abstracts seemed to be in retreat, so maybe they weren't all destroyed like Aegis definitively was on-panel. Maybe they were doing all they could and then backed off lest being annihilated.

Ya'll can reread the Cancerverse War here (posted in reverse order): Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Added the Cancerverse War battle, and also fixed some things and added some other scans mostly in the "Energy Manipulation" section (waiting 'till Chaos War ends before adding anything if I can add anything at all...):
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/

Power Cosmic II

Originally posted by Galan007
True, but imo it's more logical to assume Galactus still had some help, then it is to assume he had no help at all.

...Unless you think he was capable of single-handedly holding back the GE in a weak(er) state than he started at..?

Originally posted by Galan007
And the weakness of your argument is the fact that you think G was able to, even momentarily, slow the progress of the GE by himself. Sorry, but by that point in time, G would have been significantly weaker then when the battle first began--and even when G was well nourished, he along with Tenebrous, Aegis, and numerous Celestials, were barely able to hold back the GE.

So if Galactus would have been the only cosmic left to hold back the Engine, he would have been destroyed with rapid succession, imo.

Except my argument is corroborated with writers' intent and on-panel statements. You can disagree with the assessment but your disagreeing with it doesn't mean it's "the logical conclusion."

Galactus and 4 Celestials vs. the Engine

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4275/ti5e.jpg

the very next panel that depicts the battle

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4557/ti6d.jpg

This scan even confirms that Galactus is opposing the Engine on his own at this specific "pivotal juncture". It would not be a "pivotal juncture" unless the success of Galactus was the complete and whole deciding factor. Surfer all but confirms that unless Galactus (and Galactus alone...he does not name ANY Celestials) can defeat the engine, then they will all die, per his logical conclusion.

Medusa: Move our ships to support Galactus....I have instructed the Nova Corps to support Galactus directly.

Really..is Galactus so alone that the remains of battered fleets and a handful of Nova Corps members are required to fill positions where 2 proemial gods and over 19 Celestials once stood? Apparently so.

As I said, you can disagree with it all you want, but you go against what is clearly the writers' intent that Galactus is alone.

OneDumbG0

^ Thumbnails, dude! messed

Power Cosmic II

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Thumbnails, dude! messed

Nah, because I posted thumbnails of these scans the other day, and they were pretty much cast aside in favor of "Galactus couldn't be fighting by himself"

So Full Screen Evidence is now in effect for double page splash

psycho gundam

i don't think you guys are realizing the scale of the battlefield here. galactus is dead center and all you can see are the galactus engine's teeth, that's how spread out the abstracts are from one another.

galan posted the a shot of something like half of the 616 abstracts, and judging from the 2000 ft tall celestials, then the exitar + size face of the galactus engine, the fault itself is thousands of miles across with celestials across it.

you can't see them when galactus is the focal point from a one dimensional point of view.

OneDumbG0

^ Galactus being the focal point is deliberate, I believe. It's up to interpretation, but the progression from over a dozen Abstracts at the outset of the battle (count all the giant dudes in the foreground and background):
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ThanImp_2_028.jpg

To where Quasar is mentioning that the Abstracts seem to be in retreat and just five Abstracts show up on-panel much later in the battle after Aegis dies:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ThanImp_3_019.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ti-09-10.jpg

Until finally Galactus is (by all appearances) all by himself:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/thanos_06_007-008.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/thanos_06_016.jpg

This seems more a deliberate plotting device than just accidental tunnel-vision artistry.

cdtm

And that's why Big G is a step up from Skyfather level.

Because, you didn't see Odin out there helping Galactus defend the entire multiverse, did you. stick out tongue

He couldn't even handle the fourth host, let alone make the stand Galactus made.

Utrigita

Originally posted by Galan007
I disagree completely, but that's neither here nor there.

Agreed to disagree.

Galan007

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Galactus certainly seemed to be the last Abstract standing. If there were others, they weren't shown. If there were others, they probably would have been noted by Surfer. If there were others, so much attention on Galactus probably wouldn't have been laid. The engagement zone stretched across 2 parsecs. I doubt Galactus was waging a 2 parsec-wide battle from the one position he was depicted in... Especially considering it looked like he was about to be overtaken at that point in time. /shrug

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Also, I think the Abstracts were certainly holding the GE off. I don't think they were "barely" holding it off. "Our universe's Galactus and the other high abstracts are barely holding it in check." *see the laughably huge scans PCII posted above*

So yeah, previously in the story the cumulative efforts of Galactus (presumably well nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + multiple Celestials were barely enough hold the GE at bay. So if Galactus (who was surely weaker by the final issue) was holding it back all by himself, then it's PIS/stupidity of the highest order.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
On this note though, it was also alluded to by bystanders that the Abstracts seemed to be in retreat, so maybe they weren't all destroyed like Aegis definitively was on-panel. Maybe they were doing all they could and then backed off lest being annihilated.
Maybe, but that'd still mean Galactus was the only fella there who was holding back the GE--something I simply cannot agree with.

---

Anyhow, the aforementioned happenings really aren't conclusive either way (as I'm sure you'd agree with.) But it's just really hard for me to imagine Galactus holding back the GE unaided--even for a moment.

leonidas

i agree with galan. mostly because odg is opposed. big grin

Power Cosmic II

Originally posted by Galan007
The engagement zone stretched across 2 parsecs. I doubt Galactus was waging a 2 parsec-wide battle from the one position he was depicted in... Especially considering it looked like he was about to be overtaken at that point in time. /shrug

"Our universe's Galactus and the other high abstracts are barely holding it in check." *see the laughably huge scans PCII posted above*

So yeah, previously in the story the cumulative efforts of Galactus (presumably well nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + multiple Celestials were barely enough hold the GE at bay. So if Galactus (who was surely weaker by the final issue) was holding it back all by himself, then it's PIS/stupidity of the highest order.

Maybe, but that'd still mean Galactus was the only fella there who was holding back the GE--something I simply cannot agree with.

---

Anyhow, the aforementioned happenings really aren't conclusive either way (as I'm sure you'd agree with.) But it's just really hard for me to imagine Galactus holding back the GE unaided--even for a moment.

The width of the fault has nothing to do with it. The whole area of battle stretched 2 parsecs but it was made abundantly clear that Galactus and the others were combating the GE alone ("most monstrous threat by far" etc.) while the fleets of "over 100" stellar races were waging war against the belief ships and the cancerverse creatures that stretched over 2 parsecs, the real center of the battle was on the GE.

Medusa stated the gravest threat by far was the Galactus Engine. The Galactus Engine arrived as a response to the arrive of Galactus and the others. At that instance the focal point of the conflict centered around the most powerful combatants, the GE vs. the cosmic entities/beings. As incredulous as you are to the thought that Galactus is facing the engine alone, I am several times more incredulous that the Celestials would be wasting their time aiding kree and shiar ships in battle while Galactus contended with the Engine, or that they are simply depicted "off panel" while the outcome of the entire battle was being decided at a specific location with specific consequences, as stated by SS.

Galan007

And I am 'several times more incredulous' that a Galactus alone was able to do something that he (well nourished), along with numerous other cosmics, were barely able to do beforehand.

If me and 10 of my buddies struggle to flip a truck over, there's no way in hell I'm flipping it over by myself. Just saying.

lft4ded

If you and your buddies get it close enough to the tipping point, maybe the realization that you're the last man standing causes an adrenaline surge, or whatever, and you're able to finish the job.

You see, I believe in you Galan and I know that you're twice the person your crummy buddies are! big grin

But TBH I don't now if Galactus can absorb ambient energy remnants from his fallen comrades or if perhaps he was willing to go all in with the energy remaining. In a manner similar to DOS Supes.

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by Galan007
The engagement zone stretched across 2 parsecs. I doubt Galactus was waging a 2 parsec-wide battle from the one position he was depicted in... Especially considering it looked like he was about to be overtaken at that point in time. /shrug Like I said, if there were others, they weren't shown. If there were others, they probably would have been noted by Surfer. If there were others, so much attention on Galactus probably wouldn't have been laid. Originally posted by Galan007
"Our universe's Galactus and the other high abstracts are barely holding it in check." *see the laughably huge scans PCII posted above* That statement came at the climax by Medusa. It's the second to last scan of the Cancerverse War before Death destroys the Cancerverse. Yes, by the end as the Abstracts were dying or retreating, then the last few remaining ones would be barely holding the GE back. You look at how the engagement first is, and they all look like they're standing around to guys like Quasar. Literally. Standing around to human eyes. Originally posted by Galan007
So yeah, previously in the story the cumulative efforts of Galactus (presumably well nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + multiple Celestials were barely enough hold the GE at bay. So if Galactus (who was surely weaker by the final issue) was holding it back all by himself, then it's PIS/stupidity of the highest order.

Maybe, but that'd still mean Galactus was the only fella there who was holding back the GE--something I simply cannot agree with.

---

Anyhow, the aforementioned happenings really aren't conclusive either way (as I'm sure you'd agree with.) But it's just really hard for me to imagine Galactus holding back the GE unaided--even for a moment. I understand that near the very end, five Abstracts would be struggling. And so would Galactus at the very end (as he is). But I don't see how a desperate last stand is so unbelievable unless you think the GE never could be weakened and operated at constant power levels from beginning to end.

Galan007

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But I don't see how a desperate last stand is so unbelievable unless you think the GE never could be weakened and operated at constant power levels from beginning to end. Personally, I'm not sure how to take the GE. Was it a machine? Was it organic? Was it bio-organic? Etc. Either way, based on it's overall size (all of the cosmics combined would have fit on one of its teeth), it never slowing/lessening its assault, and nothing being mentioned pertaining to it 'weakening', it's hard to imagine that it had become SO weak that -a weaker than normal- Galactus was able to hold it back all by himself.

...That is something you just won't convince me of.

OneDumbG0

^ It was a weaponized Galactus. And Galactus was the last Abstract standing to take it on. /shrug

So I take it that you believe Death of Superman to be PIS? So I take it that you believe War of the Green Lanterns to be PIS? Since those situations are completely analogous?

leonidas

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It was a weaponized Galactus. And Galactus was the last Abstract standing to take it on. /shrug

So I take it that you believe Death of Superman to be PIS? So I take it that you believe War of the Green Lanterns to be PIS? Since those situations are completely analogous?

dos? how so?

OneDumbG0

Originally posted by Galan007
And I am 'several times more incredulous' that a Galactus Superman alone was able to do something that he (well nourished full strength), along with numerous other cosmics superheroes, were barely able to do beforehand.

If me and 10 of my buddies struggle to flip a truck over, there's no way in hell I'm flipping it over by myself. Just saying. And Superman actually defeated Doomsday, he didn't just hold him off momentarily. Hal and Krona... well it's obvious how much more 'several times more incredulous' Galan007 ought to be over that.

leonidas

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Superman actually defeated Doomsday, he didn't just hold him off momentarily. Hal and Krona... well it's obvious how much more 'several times more incredulous' Galan007 ought to be over that.

the hal/krona i got, but wasn't there some mention of dd weakening in that arc near the end? can't recall exactly. i think the intention of that arc was a little different as well. it was MEANT to be a glorious death for superman. not sure the same thing was intended for galactus. i'm actually unsure of just what was intended in that scene with g. it always struck me as odd that g could fight so long and not appear to be weakened though when so many other times he weakened quickly. erm

OneDumbG0

^ Superman took him on solo for several issues, after he and the Justice league got wrecked and after he and Maxima got wrecked. I think Superman speculated that he hoped Doomsday was getting weaker in the second to last issue. But even after Doomsday wrecked Maxima and Superman, Superman stated in their next engagement that Doomsday hadn't weakened one iota at all while he was seriously winded. So, to play devil's advocate, Galan007 would have had serious issues with Superman goin solo at that point. And there were still several issues left of Superman taking him on solo before Superman ultimately killed him.

leonidas

yeah, i get what you're saying, but i think the situations aren't (exactly) analgous due to the intended outcome of the events. i thought supes was also sort of saving himself a little--he realized it was going to take his very GREATEST effort to win. that final attack was he BEST shot. i'm not sure galactus did anything analagous to that. i see what you're getting at, i just don't think the dos case is an apt one. galan however doesn't need me piping up for him.... and i really don't want him thinking i'm trying to steal some alone time with you. i know how you 2 are..... heh

OneDumbG0

^ You keep focusing on the final outcome. I'm starting to focus on Superman holding off Doomsday for several issues after the Justice League went down and the Superman/Maxima tag team went down.

That solo effort lasted several issues and Superman states during that solo effort that Doomsday hadn't seemed to weakened one iota whereas he was messed up by admission and by all physical appearances.

leonidas

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You keep focusing on the final outcome. I'm starting to focus on Superman holding off Doomsday for several issues after the Justice League went down and the Superman/Maxima tag team went down.

That solo effort lasted several issues and Superman states during that solo effort that Doomsday hadn't seemed to weakened one iota whereas he was messed up by admission and by all physical appearances.

but do you agree that superman was (by character) holding back until he fully undertstood what it would take to finish dd?

by contrast, i don't think g was EVER holding anything back. his best would likely have come at the start whereas supes was weakened then used his GREATEST attack at the very end. g simply continually expended energy and by all reason should just have been growing steadily weaker.... at least no 'revelatory' attack seemed to come from galactus as it did from supes.

Galan007

Originally posted by leonidas
but do you agree that superman was (by character) holding back until he fully undertstood what it would take to finish dd?

by contrast, i don't think g was EVER holding anything back. his best would likely have come at the start whereas supes was weakened then used his GREATEST attack at the very end. g simply continually expended energy and by all reason should just have been growing steadily weaker.... at least no 'revelatory' attack seemed to come from galactus as it did from supes. Exactly

...And comparing the actions of the cosmics in TI, to those of Superman in DoS is simply a bad analogy.

OneDumbG0

^ lol, just lol, whatever, this conversation has played itself out Originally posted by leonidas
but do you agree that superman was (by character) holding back until he fully undertstood what it would take to finish dd? The issue has never been about full power shots. It's about who was weakened. And Superman was winded as early on as when Maxima joined the battle wondering how much longer he could keep up the fight. And immediately thereafter he noted that he was wearin down, that it hurt just hitting him, etc. But he held the line against Doomsday for several issues thereafter, finally leting loose the killing blows that cost him his life. Originally posted by leonidas
by contrast, i don't think g was EVER holding anything back. his best would likely have come at the start whereas supes was weakened then used his GREATEST attack at the very end. g simply continually expended energy and by all reason should just have been growing steadily weaker.... at least no 'revelatory' attack seemed to come from galactus as it did from supes. I have no idea where you got that preconceived notion. Certainly not from the comics themselves. Not once was Galactus stated as or depicted as expending his fullest power from the beginning. And since Galactus never killed the GE, I don't see how full power kill shots enter this conversation. The consternation has always been directed at Galactus simply holding the line at the end solo momentarily. Superman held the line for several issues and ended the threat solo. Where's the rage?

leonidas

iyo, was superman holding back intentionally because he was unwilling to unleash a killing blow on dd (one that may have been enough to kill HIM as well)? did he save his best for the end?

and likewise, galactus was never depicted in anyway at all, of using his greatest power at the end. therefore i think it logical to assume he was simply expending a constant amount of power THROUGHOUT the fight. if true, his power (by its nature and historical depictions) SHOULD have been waning. now, had he used some kind of herlad my rage attack (that a weakened g HAS shown) i would agree with you completely. THAT attack (and the way he was shown in relationship to it) was more in line with dos than this arc imo.

of course, we're likely off topic, but.... whatever. smile

Power Cosmic II

Originally posted by Galan007
And I am 'several times more incredulous' that a Galactus alone was able to do something that he (well nourished), along with numerous other cosmics, were barely able to do beforehand.

If me and 10 of my buddies struggle to flip a truck over, there's no way in hell I'm flipping it over by myself. Just saying.

The shortcoming in your analogy is that at no point was Galactus about to triumph on his own, that was made pretty clear by the desperation in dialog and the "matter of fact" statement by Surfer. And if you wanted to carry this further, even if 9 out of the 10 drop out due to sheer exhaustion, the 1 who outlasts the rest is still holding up the car, if even for the briefest amount of time, regardless of how imperceptible you might be to it.

I don't find it farfetched at all to consider that Galactus was able to defend himself in a superior fashion or evade the attacks better than the Celestials. The whole battlefield is in retreat and Galactus is the last line of defense. You obviously disagree with it but the facts are the facts and as I mentioned in another thread, I talked with DnA last year at the NYCC, which took place in October (before issue 6 but after issue 5) and I asked them what Galactus' role would be in issue 6. They simply replied to me that Galactus is the last abstract facing the engine. The scans corroborate their intent.

Whether you want to ascribe it to superior shielding, tactics, or the unique factor that Galactus is facing--for all intents and purposes--a copy of himself while the Celestials are not, he is the last one remaining and the last one combating the engine. I simply ascribe it to story progression and writers' intent. You can call it PIS, but the fact is he was the last one remaining; at no point in the battle does the GE demonstrate the ability to wipe out multiple Celestials wholesale, so 1 remaining from many is absolutely within realm of possibility.

guy222

Tiamut is in this battle

Tiamut>Big G

Celestials FTW

Galan007

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
The shortcoming in your analogy is that at no point was Galactus about to triumph on his own You've misunderstood my entire stance if you think this what I was arguing.

Never once did I say that it appeared as though Galactus "was about to triumph" over the GE. Rather, I said that based on the fact that he + numerous other cosmics had barely been able to hold back the GE beforehand, there's no conceivable way he alone should have been able to--even for a moment. If he was capable of holding back the GE all by himself (and in a weaker state than he started at, btw) then why had he, along with multiple cosmics, previously been struggling to do so..?

Again, you simply will not convince me Galactus was soloing the GE for any length of time. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one.

Bentley

Remember the time Galactus ate Tiamut? eek!

zopzop

Originally posted by Bentley
Remember the time Galactus ate Tiamut? eek!

Remember at the time it was Tiamut that altered Galactus into that universe eater (while Tiamut was IMPRISONED) and Galactus couldn't stop him? Remember at the time the only reason he was up and about was because his Deviant slaves devised a way to get him to near full power by building power generators in his prison and feeding him the energy. Remember at the time Reed discovered this, destroyed the generators, and depowered Tiamut as he flew into Galactus' stomach?

Remember the time Galactus trembled in fear when Tiamut arose from his slumber?

Tiamut stomps Galactus.

jalek moye

Originally posted by Galan007
You've misunderstood my entire stance if you think this what I was arguing.

Never once did I say that it appeared as though Galactus "was about to triumph" over the GE. Rather, I said that based on the fact that he + numerous other cosmics had barely been able to hold back the GE beforehand, there's no conceivable way he alone should have been able to--even for a moment. If he was capable of holding back the GE all by himself (and in a weaker state than he started at, btw) then why had he, along with multiple cosmics, previously been struggling to do so..?

Again, you simply will not convince me Galactus was soloing the GE for any length of time. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one.
It happens all the time in comics though. A group is failing to hold off something and they all fall but one who holds out a little longer despite that fact that it doesn't make sense. Hell not even just comics fiction in genera.

guy222

Originally posted by Bentley
Remember the time Galactus ate Tiamut? eek!

Zop beat me to it

stick out tongue

Bentley

Originally posted by zopzop
Remember at the time it was Tiamut that altered Galactus into that universe eater (while Tiamut was IMPRISONED) and Galactus couldn't stop him? Remember at the time the only reason he was up and about was because his Deviant slaves devised a way to get him to near full power by building power generators in his prison and feeding him the energy. Remember at the time Reed discovered this, destroyed the generators, and depowered Tiamut as he flew into Galactus' stomach?

Remember the time Galactus trembled in fear when Tiamut arose from his slumber?

Tiamut stomps Galactus.

Tiamut used Galactus because Galan is intrinsically more powerful, even if he may not use that power in his regular self he is potentially more dangerous.

I admit that it's entirely possible that Tiamut beats a non-weaponized Galactus, luckily for us, this time the Celestials are facing exactly that.

zopzop

Originally posted by Bentley
Tiamut used Galactus because Galan is intrinsically more powerful, even if he may not use that power in his regular self he is potentially more dangerous.

I admit that it's entirely possible that Tiamut beats a non-weaponized Galactus, luckily for us, this time the Celestials are facing exactly that.

No Tiamut used Galactus because Galactus just happened to be on Earth at the time and within the IMPRISONED Tiamut's power range. The IMPRISONED Tiamut altered Galactus to his very core and Galactus couldn't stop him. Think about that for a sec.

Bentley

Originally posted by zopzop
No Tiamut used Galactus because Galactus just happened to be on Earth at the time and within the IMPRISONED Tiamut's power range. The IMPRISONED Tiamut altered Galactus to his very core and Galactus couldn't stop him. Think about that for a sec.

Tiamut built a gun, he was safe until he got shot by it. Then he died. Was the bullet dangerous for Tiamut or not?

Think about it.

guy222

And Tiamut awoke 500,000 years later and Galactus knew fear

There's no way around that as Galactus figured he was done with the Greatest Celestial

As I said, preference is the key for anyone's winner

Tiamut is here with other Celestials

Tiamut>Galactus add other Celestials bye bye GE

See, simple

stick out tongue

I b back in a bit time for the store

Take care buddy

Bentley

Have a nice time Guy smile

guy222

I will good friend smile

Keep the thread goin til I return

zopzop

Originally posted by Bentley
Tiamut built a gun, he was safe until he got shot by it. Then he died. Was the bullet dangerous for Tiamut or not?

Think about it.

Horrible analogy on so many levels. An IMPRISONED Tiamut altered another cosmic being that was unlucky enough to be within his power range at the time. This sentient being was powerless to stop an IMPRISONED Tiamut from altering his physiology.

Then later, a WEAKENED Tiamut was destroyed by his creation. What's so hard to understand?

Bentley

The fact that weaponized Galactus have proven to be more dangerous than a senitent one in multiple occasions. Or do you disagree?

zopzop

Originally posted by Bentley
The fact that weaponized Galactus have proven to be more dangerous than a senitent one in multiple occasions. Or do you disagree?

Even if that's true, what has that to do with a WEAKENED Tiamut? Because you know he was depowered when he flew into Galactus' stomach, you realize that right?

Rage.Of.Olympus

Celestials.

Bentley

Originally posted by zopzop
Even if that's true, what has that to do with a WEAKENED Tiamut? Because you know he was depowered when he flew into Galactus' stomach, you realize that right?

And you readily assume he would have resisted at full power even when the same Galactus weapon destroyed the very same Celestials that defeated Tiamut before.

Yeah, that makes sense shifty

zopzop

Originally posted by Bentley
And you readily assume he would have resisted at full power even when the same Galactus weapon destroyed the very same Celestials that defeated Tiamut before.

Yeah, that makes sense shifty

You got proof they were destroyed?

Bentley

Originally posted by zopzop
You got proof they were destroyed?

Of course not, sometimes I get confused and mention things that may have never happened ahah

embarrasment

KuRuPT Thanosi

Originally posted by jalek moye
It happens all the time in comics though. A group is failing to hold off something and they all fall but one who holds out a little longer despite that fact that it doesn't make sense. Hell not even just comics fiction in genera.

As I stated earlier, welcome to comics. Just because something doesn't quite makes sense, doesn't mean invalidate it and throw it away.

Furthermore, what makes little sense here, is people don't want to accept on panel narration that corroborates the artwork shown. Instead, that want to go by evidence not shown in narration or artwork.. and that is suppose to be more convincing?

rotiart

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As I stated earlier, welcome to comics. Just because something doesn't quite makes sense, doesn't mean invalidate it and throw it away.

Furthermore, what makes little sense here, is people don't want to accept on panel narration that corroborates the artwork shown. Instead, that want to go by evidence not shown in narration or artwork.. and that is suppose to be more convincing?

I remember an issue where Thor throws his hammer aside while fighting hulk and declares the equivalent of: let fists do alone what the hammer could not....
Or something like that and I was like... WTF?

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by Galan007
You've misunderstood my entire stance if you think this what I was arguing.

Never once did I say that it appeared as though Galactus "was about to triumph" over the GE. Rather, I said that based on the fact that he + numerous other cosmics had barely been able to hold back the GE beforehand, there's no conceivable way he alone should have been able to--even for a moment. If he was capable of holding back the GE all by himself (and in a weaker state than he started at, btw) then why had he, along with multiple cosmics, previously been struggling to do so..?

Again, you simply will not convince me Galactus was soloing the GE for any length of time. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one.

It's true, based on what we saw it made little to no sense but it's a comic.

Galan007

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's true, based on what we saw it made little to no sense but it's a comic. Kay. So by the opposite logic, Odin should be able to (albeit momentarily) hold back the GE all by himself. After all, if a weaker Galactus was able to do it, a full-powered Odin should be able to do it as well... And likely even easier at that.

...But I'm sure that while the consensus would agree a full powered Odin is no less than equal to a less than well-nourished Galactus, they would disagree that he alone could hold back the GE--and for good reason.

So wtf? srsly

psycho gundam

odin would just headbutt the galactus engine

Utrigita

Originally posted by Galan007
Kay. So by the opposite logic, Odin should be able to (albeit momentarily) hold back the GE all by himself. After all, if a weaker Galactus was able to do it, a full-powered Odin should be able to do it as well... And likely even easier at that.

...But I'm sure that while the consensus would agree a full powered Odin is no less than equal to a less than well-nourished Galactus, they would disagree that he alone could hold back the GE--and for good reason.

So wtf? srsly

I'll agree to that Galactus is currently going through a rather turbulent time. We have his powerlevel all over the map atm, as you said yourself in another thread, that the Nova Galactus written by Dan Abnett would have Odin not even giving out a bip on Galactus radar, then we have Pak's Galactus, then the Cancerverse war Galactus where the writer obviously see him as on the level of the Celestials. And then Fraction who has Galactus coming out on top against Odin but in what shape we don't know. So basically Galactus has been thrown alot around over the last 3 years in terms of were exactly he is located as a character powerwise. Each writer obviously have his own ideas, and because Galactus doesn't have a regular series, it turns into a complete mess.

Bentley

Originally posted by psycho gundam
odin would just headbutt the galactus engine

thumb up

OneDumbG0

Galan007

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sinestro no-selling/stomping the Weaponer solo -- who easily handled Kyle, John, GL Ganthet, Hannu and Alpha Lantern Boodikka simultaneously -- must have really grinded your gears then. You probably hated every single aspect about that. Yeah, that analogy would only be applicable to my stance if the aforementioned Lanterns + Sinestro had barely been able to contend with the Weaponer originally. Then a weaker-than-normal Sinestro pops up later in the story, and beats the Weaponer unaided... Which isn't how things happened at all.

So you can either keep listing bad analogies, or accept how ridiculous it is to assume Galactus was holding back the GE by himself.

KuRuPT Thanosi

Question Galan... which is more sound...

To go by artist depiction and narration confirming said artist depiction or Saying nuh uh I don't like that cause it doesn't quite fit? By the way..on this same line.. why couldn't the celestials and other abstracts taken some of the GE's mustard and he wasn't quite as powerful as before.. If it's your contention that Galactus was weaker having battled the GE (when there was no evidence supporting that stance) why couldn't the GE also be weaker as there is no evidence supporting that other than the same logic you're applying to Galactus probably being weaker.

Galan007

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Question Galan... which is more sound...

To go by artist depiction and narration confirming said artist depiction or Saying nuh uh I don't like that cause it doesn't quite fit? Because based on EVERY artistic depiction/description beforehand, it took multiple cosmics just to "barely" hold back the GE. So why would I believe that all of the sudden a weaker Galactus was able to hold it back unaided? Imo, the latter is simply illogical.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
why couldn't the GE also be weaker as there is no evidence supporting that other than the same logic you're applying to Galactus probably being weaker. The more energy Galactus expends between feedings, the less powerful he becomes (usually by a significant margin.) That's how his character has ALWAYS been portrayed. Having said that: considering Galactus was constantly expending energy against the GE without feeding during that time, the logical conclusion is that he would have been a good deal less powerful by the end of that confrontation, then he was at the beginning.

Other side of the coin, it's impossible to gauge how much power the GE had left. All we know for sure is that it's attacks never appeared to weaken/lessen in the slightest.

Cogito

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Question Galan... which is more sound...

To go by artist depiction and narration confirming said artist depiction or Saying nuh uh I don't like that cause it doesn't quite fit?
Only problem with your argument is that artist depiction doesn't show anything and narration doesn't say anything about the other cosmics dying or leaving. Readers filled in those blanks.

KuRuPT Thanosi

Originally posted by Galan007
Because based on EVERY artistic depiction/description beforehand, it took multiple cosmics just to "barely" hold back the GE. So why would I believe that all of the sudden a weaker Galactus was able to hold it back unaided? Imo, the latter is simply illogical.

The more energy Galactus expends between feedings, the less powerful he becomes (usually by a significant margin.) That's how his character has ALWAYS been portrayed. Having said that: considering Galactus was constantly expending energy against the GE without feeding during that time, the logical conclusion is that he would have been a good deal less powerful by the end of that confrontation, then he was at the beginning.

Other side of the coin, it's impossible to gauge how much power the GE had left. All we know for sure is that it's attacks never appeared to weaken/lessen in the slightest.
Right but when there were no left as shown.. and narration confirms Galactus was the only one and holding it off.. that should carry more weight then nuh uh I don't like it cause it doesn't quite fit no?

Galan007

So you're saying that a weaker Galactus alone was able to do what he + multiple other cosmics had barely been able to do beforehand..? Wow, you think much higher of Galactus than I do.

...Also, do you believe Odin would be capable of holding back the GE by himself? Because if a less than well-nourished Galactus can do it, surely a full-powered Odin can as well, no?

Cogito

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Right but when there were no left as shown.. and narration confirms Galactus was the only one and holding it off.. that should carry more weight then nuh uh I don't like it cause it doesn't quite fit no?

I'd like to see where the narration confirmed anything, because I missed that part. Fact: the narration said nothing about the cosmics leaving or dying. Fact: the art didn't show the cosmics leaving or dying.

Let's show an analogous art example.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SCW25-22.jpg
http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/?action=view&current=SCW25-23.jpg

These are sequential pages from Sinestro Corps War. The first shows dozens of heroes/GLs fighting off the Anti-Monitor. The second shows only the Guardians. Do we assume that all of the heroes/GLs died or ran away because we can only see the Guardians in the second? Hell no.

So do I assume all the cosmics died or left because they were shown in one panel and not the next? Hell no.

KuRuPT Thanosi

Originally posted by Cogito
I'd like to see where the narration confirmed anything, because I missed that part. Fact: the narration said nothing about the cosmics leaving or dying. Fact: the art didn't show the cosmics leaving or dying.

Let's show an analogous art example.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SCW25-22.jpg
http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/?action=view&current=SCW25-23.jpg

These are sequential pages from Sinestro Corps War. The first shows dozens of heroes/GLs fighting off the Anti-Monitor. The second shows only the Guardians. Do we assume that all of the heroes/GLs died or ran away because we can only see the Guardians in the second? Hell no.

So do I assume all the cosmics died or left because they were shown in one panel and not the next? Hell no.

Did you miss the part about Aegis be killed by the GE? Did you miss the narration that says the other abtracts are retreating? did you miss the narration tha states Galactus his HOLDING IT OFF BY HIMSELF and the artwork shows NOBODY ELSE THERE. How on God's green earth can you say there is none of this said or shown is beyond me.

Bentley

Odin is not here, stop going off topic Galan.

stick out tongue

KuRuPT Thanosi

Originally posted by Galan007
So you're saying that a weaker Galactus alone was able to do what he + multiple other cosmics had barely been able to do beforehand..? Wow, you think much higher of Galactus than I do.

...Also, do you believe Odin would be capable of holding back the GE by himself? Because if a less than well-nourished Galactus can do it, surely a full-powered Odin can as well, no?

Again, I understand your point about it not quite fitting and that he shouldn't be able to do that really. We understand this point. However, the bigger point is.. this happens ALL THE TIME in comics.. It's one of those welcome to comics things.. It happens. So what I'm asking is.. which carries more weight... Artistic depiction backed up by on panel narration stating something is so.. or something that doesn't quite fit and a little inconsistent with powerlevels and going nuh uh.. I don't like it it didn't happen?