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Can Fate do better?

Why should Strange fear the Living Tribunal? He's just doing his job and protecting reality, which LT should be well aware...

That was Strange with AO's power (the guy that choked out Eternity) and he was still powerless before Zom. I'm biased, Zom fan here, so I'm gonna say Zom wins.

Depends on the Dr. Fate IMO. Nabu Fate could take this imo.

Pick any Fate

Didn't Strange release him if so I think he may have worried how LT would react to him releasing a threat like that.

If that's the case, I bet LT overreacted and was like "Because of your actions, my judgement is Earth MUST BE DESTROYED!"

Zoom is freakin ugly..i have to give this to Fate base entirely on looks..

Originally posted by zopzop
That was Strange with AO's power (the guy that choked out Eternity) and he was still powerless before Zom. I'm biased, Zom fan here, so I'm gonna say Zom wins.

Pre-Crisis Dr. Fate did something similar. Call upon the power of God. If he does that. he wins. If not, he loses.

Originally posted by zopzop
That was Strange with AO's power (the guy that choked out Eternity) and he was still powerless before Zom. I'm biased, Zom fan here, so I'm gonna say Zom wins.

And yet Dormammu was able to shackle him in the Chains of Living Bondage even before Eternity trapped him in the amphora. You're really suggesting Zom > Eternity?

Originally posted by CortSether
And yet Dormammu was able to shackle him in the Chains of Living Bondage even before Eternity trapped him in the amphora. You're really suggesting Zom > Eternity?

At least he wasn't humiliated by a "vertigo" attack and owned by Strange (unlike a certain someone). We don't know how Dormammu shackled Zom and even then Eternity had to step in and seal him away. Just from the way he completely no sold Umar's attacks (this was during a time that Strange said Umar was the most dangerous opponent he ever faced) suggests Dormammu had to use more than just raw power to shackle him.

And get back to me when this happens to Zom. The same guy that choked out Eternity, added his power to Strange and Strange was still at a loss to stop Zom till the LT stepped in.

Originally posted by zopzop
At least he wasn't humiliated by a "vertigo" attack and owned by Strange (unlike a certain someone). We don't know how Dormammu shackled Zom and even then Eternity had to step in and seal him away. Just from the way he completely no sold Umar's attacks (this was during a time that Strange said Umar was the most dangerous opponent he ever faced) suggests Dormammu had to use more than just raw power to shackle him.

And get back to me when this happens to Zom. The same guy that choked out Eternity, added his power to Strange and Strange was still at a loss to stop Zom till the LT stepped in.

You love to ignore context in your posts, don't you?

And I wasn't even bringing up Shuma, why you keep going back to Shuma-Gorath all the time is a mystery. But I'll bite.

1) Shuma-Gorath was weak and hungry the whole time he was summoned by Nicholas Scratch. It's nice that you conveniently forget to mention that point.

2) That scan you posted was from after the Ancient One had merged with Eternity. You're seriously trying to pass off the power of an "aged and weary" Ancient One when Zom was summoned as being equal to that of the Ancient One while merged with Eternity?

3) It's funny that you're trying to equate Strange's power when he faced Zom as being anywhere near equal to his power when he faced Shuma.

4) Strange was doing quite well at humiliating Zom until his cloak got snagged. That Zom couldn't defeat Strange easily makes it quite obvious that he's nothing special. Meanwhile, Shuma forced his way into the Ancient One's mind and dominated him as well as Doctor Strange the entire time.

And even a severely weakened Shuma who encountered the Fantastic Four did a better job against Strange than Zom did. Strange was immediately grabbed and getting his energy sucked out of him. If he didn't have Stonehenge to teleport Shuma away he would have died, as he showed himself to be seriously beat up just by teleporting Shuma away.

For someone who insists that Shuma-Gorath is nothing but hyperbole it's funny that you're so stuck on Zom.

Originally posted by CortSether
You love to ignore context in your posts, don't you?

And I wasn't even bringing up Shuma, why you keep going back to Shuma-Gorath all the time is a mystery. But I'll bite.

1) Shuma-Gorath was weak and hungry the whole time he was summoned by Nicholas Scratch. It's nice that you conveniently forget to mention that point.

2) That scan you posted was from after the Ancient One had merged with Eternity. You're seriously trying to pass off the power of an "aged and weary" Ancient One when Zom was summoned as being equal to that of the Ancient One while merged with Eternity?

3) It's funny that you're trying to equate Strange's power when he faced Zom as being anywhere near equal to his power when he faced Shuma.

4) Strange was doing quite well at humiliating Zom until his cloak got snagged. That Zom couldn't defeat Strange easily makes it quite obvious that he's nothing special. Meanwhile, Shuma forced his way into the Ancient One's mind and dominated him as well as Doctor Strange the entire time.

And even a severely weakened Shuma who encountered the Fantastic Four did a better job against Strange than Zom did. Strange was immediately grabbed and getting his energy sucked out of him. If he didn't have Stonehenge to teleport Shuma away he would have died, as he showed himself to be seriously beat up just by teleporting Shuma away.

For someone who insists that Shuma-Gorath is nothing but hyperbole it's funny that you're so stuck on Zom.

Strange was on his knees and about to be killed till Zom paniced at the coming of the LT.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8590/continued.th.jpg
Strange beat Shuma Gorath, Strange never beat Zom. Ever. So nice try. Even if AO was merged with Eternity at that point, he STILL over powered that fool and choked him out. Amazingly he never accomplished anything like that vs Zom (or Strange for that matter with his master's power).

Shuma was made a fool of by the Salem Seven. That appearance was so humiliating you can't do anything but deflect and hope no one notices. 3 powerless FF members and the Salem Seven were making fools of Gorath till Strange showed up and beat that ass.

Originally posted by zopzop
Strange was on his knees and about to be killed till Zom paniced at the coming of the LT.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8590/continued.th.jpg
Strange beat Shuma Gorath, Strange never beat Zom. Ever. So nice try. Even if AO was merged with Eternity at that point, he STILL over powered that fool and choked him out. Amazingly he never accomplished anything like that vs Zom (or Strange for that matter with his master's power).

Shuma was made a fool of by the Salem Seven. That appearance was so humiliating you can't do anything but deflect and hope no one notices. 3 powerless FF members and the Salem Seven were making fools of Gorath till Strange showed up and beat that ass.

Deflecting? You're the one completely ignoring the circumstances of the encounters and trying to reduce it to a "He beat Shuma but never Zom" argument

That you cannot see the massive flaws in your own argument is amazing. Anyone with eyes can see the obvious lack of logic in your post.

Originally posted by CortSether
Deflecting? You're the one completely ignoring the circumstances of the encounters and trying to reduce it to a "He beat Shuma but never Zom" argument

That you cannot see the massive flaws in your own argument is amazing. Anyone with eyes can see the obvious lack of logic in your post.

Get back to me when Gorath wins a fight or even better when he fights other Demon Lords or Gods.

Originally posted by zopzop
Get back to me when Gorath wins a fight or even better when he fights other Demon Lords or Gods.

Okay, so going by your logic, just because Strange has beaten Gorath before but never Zom, that automatically makes Zom superior by default? Haha, wow.

Well using your logic, Shuma-Gorath's own servant Ghaszaszh Nyirh is more powerful than Zom because he pwnd Dr. Strange and Kaluu at the same time and took out Dr. Strange's eye in the process, forcing them to run away, whereas it took Zom a good while to even snag Strange's coat and defeat an aging and weary Ancient One.

Wait a minute, since he beat a peer of the Ancient One and Strange at the time time, that makes Shuma-Gorath's servant more powerful than Eternity even, since the Ancient One by himself was able to fight off Eternity!

Originally posted by CortSether
Okay, so going by your logic, just because Strange has beaten Gorath before but never Zom, that automatically makes Zom superior by default? Haha, wow.

Well using your logic, Shuma-Gorath's own servant Ghaszaszh Nyirh is more powerful than Zom because he pwnd Dr. Strange and Kaluu at the same time and took out Dr. Strange's eye in the process, forcing them to run away, whereas it took Zom a good while to even snag Strange's coat and defeat an aging and weary Ancient One.

Wait a minute, since he beat a peer of the Ancient One and Strange at the time time, that makes Shuma-Gorath's servant more powerful than Eternity even, since the Ancient One by himself was able to fight off Eternity!

Even Gorath's servants have better showings than him (and Strange was without many of his artifacts at the time because he destroyed them to keep them away from Urthona), well except that scrub with "infinite" power Arioch. But like I said, get back to me when Gorath wins a fight or fights another Demon Lord or God. I'll wait.



Zom fought the Strange with the AO's power and had him dead to rights till he panicked at the coming of the LT.

Originally posted by zopzop
Even Gorath's servants have better showings than him (and Strange was without many of his artifacts at the time because he destroyed them to keep them away from Urthona), well except that scrub with "infinite" power Arioch. But like I said, get back to me when Gorath wins a fight or fights another Demon Lord or God. I'll wait.



Zom fought the Strange with the AO's power and had him dead to rights till he panicked at the coming of the LT.

And Shuma-Gorath had Strange at his mercy and was going to kill him before Strange murdered the Ancient One. Zom isn't all unique.

And Shuma-Gorath stalemated the Vishanti. So what now?

Originally posted by CortSether
And Shuma-Gorath had Strange at his mercy and was going to kill him before Strange murdered the Ancient One. Zom isn't all unique.

And Shuma-Gorath stalemated the Vishanti. So what now?

That was Strange by himself without the AO's power. Zom took on Strange/Ao and had him dead to rights.

And when did Gorath stalemate the Vishanti? The only scan I've seen is when Strange invokes them for help vs one of Gorath's minions and they tell him to do it himself.

Originally posted by zopzop
And when did Gorath stalemate the Vishanti? The only scan I've seen is when Strange invokes them for help vs one of Gorath's minions and they tell him to do it himself.

Agamotto says during that encounter "Long ago we fought the unspeakable wickedness of Shuma-Gorath!" which shows they had fought before. Now since the Vishanti are still around, obviously Gorath didn't win, but neither did the Vishanti, because it was stated by Kaluu that not even Agamotto has destroyed a Lord of Chaos.

Originally posted by CortSether
Agamotto says during that encounter "Long ago we fought the unspeakable wickedness of Shuma-Gorath!" which shows they had fought before.

"We" as in the Vishanti? Or was Agamotto speaking in "majestic plural".



Ok so if the Vishanti as a whole fought him, why does he say "Not even Agamotto has destroyed a Lord of Chaos"? Shouldn't he have said "Not even the Vishanti have destroyed a Lord of Chaos"?

PS Agamotto couldn't even destroy Dweller in Darkness and had to imprison him so that's not really a major point in Gorath's favor.

Originally posted by zopzop

"We" as in the Vishanti? Or was Agamotto speaking in "majestic plural".


We as in the combined Vishanti, because right after Agamotto says "Long ago we fought the unspeakable wickedness of Shuma-Gorath!", Oshtur chimes in with "Yet, now we are no longer concerned with the evils of your world! If it is to be saved from the yoke of Shuma-Gorath, one of its own must do the saving!". And in the other scan, Hoggoth states "We recall well the evil one who sleeps -- yet even so, we shall not intervene!"

So Shuma-Gorath definitely concerned all of them.



Kaluu tells Strange after his fight with S-G "Those arms of chaos that stretched out over it have withdrawn because of you. Because you did what no mortal sorceror - - not even Agamotto himself, has ever done. You destroyed a lord of chaos." So the reference would have to do with Agamotto having been the first Sorcerer Supreme of Earth.

Originally posted by CortSether
We as in the combined Vishanti, because right after Agamotto says "Long ago we fought the unspeakable wickedness of Shuma-Gorath!", Oshtur chimes in with "Yet, now we are no longer concerned with the evils of your world! If it is to be saved from the yoke of Shuma-Gorath, one of its own must do the saving!". And in the other scan, Hoggoth states "We recall well the evil one who sleeps -- yet even so, we shall not intervene!"

So Shuma-Gorath definitely concerned all of them.



Kaluu tells Strange after his fight with S-G "Those arms of chaos that stretched out over it have withdrawn because of you. Because you did what no mortal sorceror - - not even Agamotto himself, has ever done. You destroyed a lord of chaos." So the reference would have to do with Agamotto having been the first Sorcerer Supreme of Earth.

Sounds like the Vishanti couldn't be bothered with him.

Again, Agamotto couldn't destroy the Dweller in Darkness and had to imprison him. So Gorath isn't unique in that regard.

Originally posted by zopzop
Sounds like the Vishanti couldn't be bothered with him.

Again, Agamotto couldn't destroy the Dweller in Darkness and had to imprison him. So Gorath isn't unique in that regard.

It doesn't change that the Vishanti fought Shuma-Gorath before and failed to defeat or banish him.

friends keep it at just zom vs fate

Originally posted by guy222
Pick any Fate I said Nabu

cool