Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Gamora was able to beat thanos, so could she give arguably the greatest human dc H2H fighter a beating or not

1) Cassandra Cain isn't DC's greatest human H2H fighter.

2) Gamora would stomp the hell out of her.

Originally posted by SWblayde938
Gamora was able to beat thanos, so could she give arguably the greatest human dc H2H fighter a beating or not

Gamora would absolutly crush Cassandra.

Originally posted by oldsmokey
1) Cassandra Cain isn't DC's greatest human H2H fighter.


Yea, that'd be Karate Kid.


---

Anyway, Gamora's a good martial artist and very significantly superhuman, like Spider-man level, as well as a healing factor, so even if they're close on skill (and it is pretty hard to tell Gamora's skill against other martial artists, she fights a lot of high-powered types but just about the only martial artist I can think of her fighting is Wolverine), she's got a rather sizable advantage. To an observer, it'd look like a good fight at first, but hits from Gamora will do a lot more damage, and Cassandra's a lot less.

If not by skills, Gamora certainly wins by superior stats. She is superhuman to booth.

Gamora one shots her. Gamora fights heralds she is like WW but with less power.

i mean gamora did beat thanos

If Gamora hits Cass, it's over.

But I can't see Gamora hitting Cass.. Gamora's good, but when it comes to speed feats she's no Mantis.

Originally posted by cdtm
If Gamora hits Cass, it's over.

But I can't see Gamora hitting Cass.. Gamora's good, but when it comes to speed feats she's no Mantis.

Batman, Nightwing, Robin, Shiva, Cane, GA, even Onyx, have all hit Batgirl. Gamora won't have much trouble.

Outliers, and in Shiva's case she shares Cass's body reading trick.

Batmans fights with Cass at the end of her solo series wasn't even a serious fight, that was simply Batmans attempt at trying to get through to Cass. An alternate form of communication, basically.

But if Cass was serious, she'd wipe the floor with Batman.

Originally posted by cdtm
Outliers, and in Shiva's case she shares Cass's body reading trick.

Batmans fights with Cass at the end of her solo series wasn't even a serious fight, that was simply Batmans attempt at trying to get through to Cass. An alternate form of communication, basically.

But if Cass was serious, she'd wipe the floor with Batman.

Not outliers my friend, simply the difference between fighting nameless fodder / C list villains and fighting actual top tier martial artists.

That's a colorful interpretation of the fight, but not what actually happened.

If Batman fought Cass seriously he would wipe the floor with her. Her best accomplishment is narrowly beating Lady Shiva, a feat she can only accomplish because of CIS on Shiva's part. There is no indication what-so-ever in the history of either character that Shiva could or would beat Batman in a h2h fight conclusively or otherwise. Narrowly edging out a character that has never shown the ability to beat Batman, isn't nearly enough to give Cass the edge over Batman. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by cdtm
If Gamora hits Cass, it's over.

But I can't see Gamora hitting Cass.. Gamora's good, but when it comes to speed feats she's no Mantis.


Everyone from robin, to Nighwing, to Shiva, to Batman have hit Cass.


cdtm logic equals epic fail. You suck at logic.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Everyone from robin, to Nighwing, to Shiva, to Batman have hit Cass.


cdtm logic equals epic fail. You suck at logic.

This from the poster who names himself after Daredevil, yet thinks Wolverine can match his speed feats.

He can't, for the record.

Originally posted by cdtm
This from the poster who names himself after Daredevil, yet thinks Wolverine can match his speed feats.

He can't, for the record.

He can and he has. Try again.

Gamora. Too strong.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Not outliers my friend, simply the difference between fighting nameless fodder / C list villains and fighting actual top tier martial artists.

That's a colorful interpretation of the fight, but not what actually happened.

That's exactly what happened.

Oracle: "Ok Bruce, you can drop the charade. I know you planned that whole thing. There are gas masks in that damned utility belt of yours, and you'd be expecting Dr. Death to pull a stunt like that. So here's my question: were you really under the influence of soul, or was it all a big act?"

Batman: "The drug was real. Not as effective as Death claims, but it was enough."

Oracle: "Then why? Why in the name of god did you put Cassandra and yourself through that?"

Batman: "Because she needed it. We both did."

Oracle: "What? Are you saying it was some kind of screwed up therapy session?"

Batman: "What other therapy would Cassandra understand? She grew up with no human contact apart from violence. Fighting is her language, Barbara. The core of her being. Of her soul. She had things she needed to get off her chest. And so did I."

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He can and he has. Try again.

No, he can't.

Originally posted by cdtm
That's exactly what happened.

Oracle: "Ok Bruce, you can drop the charade. I know you planned that whole thing. There are gas masks in that damned utility belt of yours, and you'd be expecting Dr. Death to pull a stunt like that. So here's my question: were you really under the influence of soul, or was it all a big act?"

Batman: "The drug was real. Not as effective as Death claims, but it was enough."

Oracle: "Then why? Why in the name of god did you put Cassandra and yourself through that?"

Batman: "Because she needed it. We both did."

Oracle: "What? Are you saying it was some kind of screwed up therapy session?"

Batman: "What other therapy would Cassandra understand? She grew up with no human contact apart from violence. Fighting is her language, Barbara. The core of her being. Of her soul. She had things she needed to get off her chest. And so did I."

You're reading too much into what was said. Cass had no knowledge of what his intention was, she simply wanted to fight him. He was letting her work some stuff out by allowing her to fight him, but what that tells us is a Batman who isn't even taking the fight seriously can still avoid Cass's attacks and land hits on her without any problem. Which doesn't really help you case at all. If that conversation had been between Cass and Babs and Cass said everything Bruce had said, that would be one thing, but as it that bit of narration makes Cass come off even worse then she did in the actual exchange because it shows that Bruce totally had his way with her.

Originally posted by cdtm
No, he can't.

Wolverine has better speed feats than Daredevil, it's not even up for debate.

^ The wrongness of this statement cannot be understated.

It's ON!

gamora wins!!! too much power advantage...KK would have been a better match imo

Gamora, and I'd love every minute of it.

Originally posted by oldsmokey
1) Cassandra Cain isn't DC's greatest human H2H fighter.

2) Gamora would stomp the hell out of her.

Silly, silly thread.

Cass dies horribly in a panel or two, and then Gamora kills Batman because she's bored.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You're reading too much into what was said. Cass had no knowledge of what his intention was, she simply wanted to fight him. He was letting her work some stuff out by allowing her to fight him, but what that tells us is a Batman who isn't even taking the fight seriously can still avoid Cass's attacks and land hits on her without any problem. Which doesn't really help you case at all. If that conversation had been between Cass and Babs and Cass said everything Bruce had said, that would be one thing, but as it that bit of narration makes Cass come off even worse then she did in the actual exchange because it shows that Bruce totally had his way with her.

EXACTLY. I've seen this get brought up time and again as supposed "proof" of Cass's superiority to Bruce in fighting, and it actually makes Bruce look superior. Cass was mad at Bruce but didn't know how to express it except by fighting him, which is something she would normally NEVER do. Bruce realized this, and took advantage of the drug's effect of dropping Cass's inhibition to fight as a way of letting her work off some steam. He was in control the whole time, the way a parent is who lets their angry child have a temper tantrum.

He was also retreating constantly and on the defensive. Sure, it was a way to.. but the way he 'maintained control' was giving up ground to avoid being hit. Running a lot, while a way to avoid damage, is not exactly showing martial arts superiority. Batman had control over the emotion situation, Cassandra had the advantage in the fight.

They've also fought aside from that.



Then fighting her again, and doing even better in a shorter time.

Then there's also fighting Deathstroke to a draw repeatedly... the same Deathstroke that's beaten Batman several times.



Hah! That's funny. They rather pointedly have mentioned Batman's never beaten Shiva without help quite a few times. Shiva's better than Bronze Tiger who's beaten Batman. Etc..

Originally posted by Q99
He was also retreating constantly and on the defensive. Sure, it was a way to.. but the way he 'maintained control' was giving up ground to avoid being hit. Running a lot, while a way to avoid damage, is not exactly showing martial arts superiority. Batman had control over the emotion situation, Cassandra had the advantage in the fight.

They've also fought aside from that.



Then fighting her again, and doing even better in a shorter time.

Then there's also fighting Deathstroke to a draw repeatedly... the same Deathstroke that's beaten Batman several times.



Hah! That's funny. They rather pointedly have mentioned Batman's never beaten Shiva without help quite a few times. Shiva's better than Bronze Tiger who's beaten Batman. Etc..

Deathstroke has been expressly stated to only be toying with Batgirl when they fight, if he wasn't he would beat her. Anyway Nightwing has wins over Deathstroke... do you feel like making the case that Dick > Bruce?

The only reason Batman has never beaten Shiva is because their brief exchange ended when a third party intervened, but that isn't in anyway a suggestion that he needed said help to win. Their is absolutely noting to suggest that were that fight allowed to play out to its natural conclusion that Shiva would have any chance of being the victor. Outside of the possibility that Shiva is slightly more skilled, Bruce holds ever single advantage: strength, speed, durability, endurance... and that is assuming that he is completely unarmed and not wearing his Batsuit which affords him even more advantages. If Batman and Shiva fought one on one until only one of them was still standing it wouldn't be Shiva.

Bronze Tiger beat Batman in Pre-Crisis, their are so many retcon's to the histories of Shiva / Dragon / Turner that it wasn't clear what his origins or history was before the continuity folded. All the BS Bronze Tiger retcons and character assassination in the pages of Batgirl is inconsequential. Ted was brain washed for during his time in the LoA. If we are going to pretend any of that Batgirl / Shiva bullshit is relevant and hold it against him, then I guess Batman one shotting Shiva in Public Enemies is fair game?

Originally posted by cdtm
This from the poster who names himself after Daredevil, yet thinks Wolverine can match his speed feats.

He can't, for the record.



LOL. And yet on story citations DD is sited at the Athlete level. Logan on story.........not so much. Hell bullet timers have stated Logan is faster.

Again epic fail of logic.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL. And yet on story citations DD is sited at the Athlete level. Logan on story.........not so much. Hell bullet timers have stated Logan is faster.

Again epic fail of logic.

Fail of the use of epic fail meme, and the understanding of logic.

Citations < feats.

Originally posted by cdtm
Fail of the use of epic fail meme, and the understanding of logic.

Citations < feats.

Annnnnnnnnnnnd Wolverine's speed feats > Daredevils

So I guess we are good on both counts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The wrongness of this statement cannot be understated.

He has the word dumb in his screen name for a reason.

You have the word miss in yours biscuits

You have "bent" in yours.

Originally posted by Q99
He was also retreating constantly and on the defensive. Sure, it was a way to.. but the way he 'maintained control' was giving up ground to avoid being hit. Running a lot, while a way to avoid damage, is not exactly showing martial arts superiority. Batman had control over the emotion situation, Cassandra had the advantage in the fight.



If it wasn't for the text quoted, you may have had a point. But the dialogue clearly shows that this is what Batman wanted to happen. He wasn't interested in beating Cass, just in letting her work off enough steam. So I fail to see how this makes her look superior. And being able to easily avoid the full out attacks of someone for pages is a demonstration of skill. There's a difference between running in panic and shutting down someone's offense.

As for the speed issue, I'll just note that when Cass lost her body reading, she was getting wrecked by Batman in sparring, which is pretty clear proof that in a fight situation she has zero speed advantage on him.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He has the word dumb in his screen name for a reason. Let me know when Wolverine bats away bullets with alarming frequency. And no, swatting at a dart isn't an equivalent. We know Elektra's faster than Wolverine because of her frequent bullet-timing. Don't treat Daredevil differently for no other reason than butt-hurt; it's unsightly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let me know when Wolverine bats away bullets with alarming frequency. And no, swatting at a dart isn't an equivalent. We know Elektra's faster than Wolverine because of her frequent bullet-timing. Don't treat Daredevil differently for no other reason than butt-hurt; it's unsightly.

Wolverine tanks bullets because doesn't give a f@ck, but bullet dodging / deflecting aren't the only type of speed feat nor are they anywhere near the most impressive. Wolverine has speed feats outside of ones involving bullets, and they simply top Daredevils best.

Yeah that's why Logan bats away beams with his claws and blocks beams the size of his finger nails.

But I guess DD is still faster....LOL.

Originally posted by cdtm
Fail of the use of epic fail meme, and the understanding of logic.

Citations < feats.



Logan statements/feats/power level indicator>>DD feats.


Understand that.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine tanks bullets because doesn't give a f@ck, but bullet dodging / deflecting aren't the only type of speed feat nor are they anywhere near the most impressive. Wolverine has speed feats outside of ones involving bullets, and they simply top Daredevils best. No, they don't. And they definitely don't top the frequency with which Elektra and Daredevil swat away bullets. They're both faster than Wolverine for virtually the same exact reasons.