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both at their best who wins and how?

Silver Surfer. He's more versatile and powerful than WW

Silver Surfer lassos her.

oddly enough, of marvel, superman and ww, i think diana poses the most problems for him.

Wonder Woman 6/10.

surfer. too many options. TP, light speed travel, matter manipulation, power cosmic etc...

Isn't Surfer much much faster than her?

And more durable?

Not to mention the transmutation, opening up a black hole, controlling gravity, yada yada yada, making this a stomp?

Originally posted by Glorificus
Isn't Surfer much much faster than her?

And more durable?

Not to mention the transmutation, opening up a black hole, controlling gravity, yada yada yada, making this a stomp?

I think so that's why i dont like surfer threads to be honest. he has a new power every month....his telepathy now is apparently on par with xaiver or better..

Originally posted by Glorificus
Isn't Surfer much much faster than her?

And more durable?

Not to mention the transmutation, opening up a black hole, controlling gravity, yada yada yada, making this a stomp?


She can kill Surfer and she's fast enough to hang with Zoom, so no, she's not out of her league. If Surfer fights like an idiot, Diana wins the majority, at their best both split.

Surfer..he's more powerful than her..

Originally posted by Glorificus
Isn't Surfer much much faster than her?

And more durable?

Not to mention the transmutation, opening up a black hole, controlling gravity, yada yada yada, making this a stomp?

Travel wise yes, he's faster, but reflex wise, no.

Durability can be debated, tbh.

He can still beat her though.

I'd give Diana better odds than Thor on average, that tiara is one sharp weapon.

but surfer has ranged attacks and has TP and so many other options besides strength and speed. He can open up black holes, transmute, etc... written without pis the surfer is god like. hes like fire storm combined xavier with the durability and speed of superman. The things hes been doing in the annihilators borderlines on the absurd. He took control of a whole planet with his TP. They merged a couple of moons or stars together, etc...

Which is why i can't stand the character. I'd rather read about diana any day of the week but with out pis given his powerset...surfer owns

None of that matters except the ranged attacks, to be honest, a tactic which would work against Thor all the same. Despite his potential, Surfer is more or less bad at keeping his fight in long range, that's why Thor and Diana are threats to him.

I agree that Surfer's powerset is more dangerous, but he doesn't fight like that. If he did, then people who are supposed to beat him -such as Thanos or Galactus- would have incredible feats. In average he just blasts and uses his board.

Originally posted by nwg202
but surfer has ranged attacks and has TP and so many other options besides strength and speed. He can open up black holes, transmute, etc... written without pis the surfer is god like. hes like fire storm combined xavier with the durability and speed of superman. The things hes been doing in the annihilators borderlines on the absurd. He took control of a whole planet with his TP. They merged a couple of moons or stars together, etc...

Which is why i can't stand the character. I'd rather read about diana any day of the week but with out pis given his powerset...surfer owns

TP flat out won't work, and I'd wonder if transmutation can affect her. He'd have to avoid a straight up h2h fight at all costs, imo, as I don't see him beating her close up.

even at his best, he still has to act within character.

Surfer 8/10.

He can keep his distance. Keep her at bay with planet busting shots, until he finds a way to dispose of her- (through a black hole, matter manip, telepathy or countless other ways).

And im not even convinced he would be finished toe to toe. Toe to toe he can shoot her point blank, he can still generate forcefields for protection, and even without his durability is pretty ridiculous.

I'm not so sure Surfer fights keeping his distance, like, ever. I agree that it would be the best for him just to go ranged mode.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman 6/10. Carver You just went insane...this a Hulk,Thor Or Gladiator Thread wake up...

Surfer stomps. illusions and intangibility would nullify her 'frontal' assaults, astral plane battle would nullify any and all weaponry, omni-directional battlefield obliterating blast would ... destroy her.

Surfer's fight to lose (though he definitely has the skill to lose even with all this advantages... it's horrific how stupidly they write him sometimes).

Also, Surfer has nanosecond or better reflexes, so no way is she fast enough to cause him problems. He's so fast that he can thoroughly search the entire planet before you can even say a sentence.

Originally posted by Bentley
None of that matters except the ranged attacks, to be honest, a tactic which would work against Thor all the same. Despite his potential, Surfer is more or less bad at keeping his fight in long range, that's why Thor and Diana are threats to him.

I agree that Surfer's powerset is more dangerous, but he doesn't fight like that. If he did, then people who are supposed to beat him -such as Thanos or Galactus- would have incredible feats. In average he just blasts and uses his board.

Yup. i agree the moment it goes hand to hand the surfer is dead. I agree that usually just stands around and blast away with his board. That's why i cant stand the character, everytime he loses it looks so stupid. They should just depower him. his highs and lows are all over the place.

flash and the surfer are characters i cant stand. written to their full potential they should not lose. But they lose and it looks stupid. Why does crime even happen on dc earth if your a billion times faster then the speed of light....flash running alongside batman just irritates me. sorry for the rant. lol

I can't imagine why doom can beat the surfer if the surfer moves faster than light. but hes doom and he has magic and hes smart so surfer loses..same with the flash and his villains. there is no way you should hit the flash. I get that flash and surfer written to their true potential is insanely boring though...

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer stomps. illusions and intangibility would nullify her 'frontal' assaults, astral plane battle would nullify any and all weaponry, omni-directional battlefield obliterating blast would ... destroy her.

Diana can see through illusions with her lasso, and can cut and capture intangible foes and astral beings with her lasso too, actually, Surfer shouldn't go astral at the risk of losing most of his powers to Diana.

Originally posted by nwg202
...flash running alongside batman just irritates me. sorry for the rant. lol
That's what happens when you can BatKick the SpeedForce out of DC!

Originally posted by nwg202
Yup. i agree the moment it goes hand to hand the surfer is dead. I agree that usually just stands around and blast away with his board. That's why i cant stand the character, everytime he loses it looks so stupid. They should just depower him. his highs and lows are all over the place.

flash and the surfer are characters i cant stand. written to their full potential they should not lose. But they lose and it looks stupid. Why does crime even happen on dc earth if your a billion times faster then the speed of light....flash running alongside batman just irritates me. sorry for the rant. lol

I can't imagine why doom can beat the surfer if the surfer moves faster than light. but hes doom and he has magic and hes smart so surfer loses..same with the flash and his villains. there is no way you should hit the flash.


No problem, I understand your point and it's something that keeps comming in any Flash/Surfer debate

Originally posted by janus77
That's what happens when you can BatKick the SpeedForce out of DC!

Did Diana lose that "eye of pallas" thing or whatever it was called?

Originally posted by Bentley
Diana can see through illusions with her lasso, and can cut and capture intangible foes and astral beings with her lasso too, actually, Surfer shouldn't go astral at the risk of losing most of his powers to Diana.
Astral plane is a whole other thing to "astral projection", it's a dimension all to itself. Surfer's taken down foes there a few times. He doesn't lose any of his powers there, iirc. Got any evidence of any instances of his power loss on the Astral Plane?

Also, illusions aren't magical, they're some sort of physical matter manipulation, like the giant Galactus he once projected... they can be from multiple directions at the same time, one lasso isn't an omni-directional defence.

Surfer can also easily take her punches and attacks, he's tanked worse - far far more powerful attacks - from sky fathers and above (T&A and Galactus being the absolute pinnacle, but rogue watchers, UniLord, Lunatik, Hulk etc all being clearly above WW's damage output).

Again, Surfer's to lose. If he's fighting with even 80% focus, he should spite her 100/100.

Originally posted by janus77
Astral plane is a whole other thing to "astral projection", it's a dimension all to itself. Surfer's taken down foes there a few times. He doesn't lose any of his powers there, iirc. Got any evidence of any instances of his power loss on the Astral Plane?

Also, illusions aren't magical, they're some sort of physical matter manipulation, like the giant Galactus he once projected... they can be from multiple directions at the same time, one lasso isn't an omni-directional defence.

Surfer can also easily take her punches and attacks, he's tanked worse - far far more powerful attacks - from sky fathers and above (T&A and Galactus being the absolute pinnacle, but rogue watchers, UniLord, Lunatik, Hulk etc all being clearly above WW's damage output).

Again, Surfer's to lose. If he's fighting with even 80% focus, he should spite her 100/100.


Surfer doesn't lose powers per se in the astral plane, he just stops having some other abilities -such as creating black holes, matter manipulation-, that in my opinion are better than going into the astral plane.

The lasso and the afore mentioned eye of Pallas can actually see through illusions of any kind, illusions is not the way to go against Diana.

If Diana really meant to fight Surfer, then her tiara would cut right through him, it has cut Superman before -and Surfer recently got cut by a skrull-. I agree that he can hang with her punches though, even if she is still more skilled and probably stronger.

I do think and agree that Surfer's powerset is overall more impressive that Diana's.

^
Cutting Surfer doesn't really matter since he healed Skrull Dre's cuts pretty easily, and he's healed from cuts much worse in the past. Also just 'cause the Skrull mimicking Dr.Dre's wraith magic was able to cut Surfer doesn't necessarily mean Diana's tiara can. That skrull was able to cut through space and time itself... They're not really comparable.

Also Surfer would hold his own fine h2h. Not sure why everyone thinks he sucks in that department he's actually pretty decent. He physically beat down BRB, He physically manhandled Hulk and his Warbound, and he physically beat down Skaar amped by the oldpower who was going to destroy planet they were on. Surfer's actually really decent hand to hand.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Did Diana lose that "eye of pallas" thing or whatever it was called?


Odyssey Diana? I don't think so, she saw some things no-one else was able to perceive, and that's even before she re-merged with her original self and got her full powers back.

Reboot Diana? Probably never had it, or maybe she does. I'm assuming this is classic since we don't know much about her at all.

Originally posted by vince_slice
^
Cutting Surfer doesn't really matter since he healed Skrull Dre's cuts pretty easily, and he's healed from cuts much worse in the past. Also just 'cause the Skrull mimicking Dr.Dre's wraith magic was able to cut Surfer doesn't necessarily mean Diana's tiara can. That skrull was able to cut through space and time itself... They're not really comparable.

Also Surfer would hold his own fine h2h. Not sure why everyone thinks he sucks in that department he's actually pretty decent. He physically beat down BRB, He physically manhandled Hulk and his Warbound, and he physically beat down Skaar amped by the oldpower who was going to destroy planet they were on. Surfer's actually really decent hand to hand.


The tiara cut through Superman and Diana is quite skilled, those are the most relevant reasons to claim she's a danger to him in close quarters.

Originally posted by Bentley
The tiara cut through Superman and Diana is quite skilled, those are the most relevant reasons to claim she's a danger to him in close quarters. I don't think being cut poses much of a problem to surfer. He's been sliced to pieces and been perfectly fine plus he can phase. Surfers dangerous close quarters too. Look what happen to Raveonous. Surfer destroyed the planet and left him bloody and defeated. Close quarters surfer ain't a slouch. People always rag on him for that.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman 6/10.

You are on some kind of drugs...

Surfer hands down. its lauaghable how the same people who claim superman prime will win against hulk via using his speed to overwhelm hulk claim that surfer will go in halfassed and fight wonder woman h2h forgetting his other powers ( even though he is by no means outmatched their).

Easy win for surfer is to stay at range, use his board and omnidirectional blasts for offence, and forcefieldds for defence. He wins comfortably

Originally posted by vince_slice
I don't think being cut poses much of a problem to surfer. He's been sliced to pieces and been perfectly fine plus he can phase. Surfers dangerous close quarters too. Look what happen to Raveonous. Surfer destroyed the planet and left him bloody and defeated. Close quarters surfer ain't a slouch. People always rag on him for that.

Again, I'm just leaning on Diana at close quarters because her high skills and tiara. Ravenous is not a physical beats, he has been bested by Zenith and Ronan, who aren't Superman level.

Originally posted by Bentley
Again, I'm just leaning on Diana at close quarters because her high skills and tiara. Ravenous is not a physical beats, he has been bested by Zenith and Ronan, who aren't Superman level. I used the ravenous example and the other examples to demostrate that close quarter combat isn't and shoud'nt be considered surfer's kryptonite. I think he can hold his own pretty well in that regard against Diana.

If fights smart and has his annilation mindset on I think he can take the comfortable majority.

What about her shooting lightning upgrade? I would Surfer for a majority but Wonder Woman give him hell

Originally posted by nwg202
Yup. i agree the moment it goes hand to hand the surfer is dead. I've never understood why so many people share this opinion of Surfer. Because of Thanos?

Not sure how Surfer keeping at range and shooting blasts at Wonder Woman makes this an easy win for him...

At absolute best case for Norrin, he wins 7/10. He's overall more powerful, obviously, but he'll play hell getting through Diana's defenses. Up close and personal, Norrin doesn't get steamrolled (don't see how you can say that upon looking at his feats), but he is outclassed in terms of skill and whatnot. Illusions and mental combat would fail hard against Classic Diana.

^ him keeping it at range means he is out of range of her attacks. Yes she can defend alot of attacks from him but she isn't blocking everything and quite frankly wont be getting off to much of an offense when you add the distance between them and forcefields he posesses. Also he can temporarily remove the lasso from her possession by encasing it in a forcefield or hard coating like his skin ( he could also encase her in it as well thereby incapacitating her) ala his fight against carnage, galactus',spiderman and daredevil. With the lasso temporarily out of play, her best and most dangerous method of attack is gone, which will mean she is constantly on the defence and will eventually be overwhelmed.

Realistically speaking, she will have hell getting through his defences more than anything, and will be constantly on the defensive herself. Thats not a recipe for victory

Originally posted by Naija boy
^ him keeping it at range means he is out of range of her attacks. Yes she can defend alot of attacks from him but she isn't blocking everything and quite frankly wont be getting off to much of an offense when you add the distance between them and forcefields he posesses. Also he can temporarily remove the lasso from her possession by encasing it in a forcefield or hard coating like his skin ( he could also encase her in it as well thereby incapacitating her) ala his fight against carnage, galactus',spiderman and daredevil. With the lasso temporarily out of play, her best and most dangerous method of attack is gone, which will mean she is constantly on the defence and will eventually be overwhelmed.

I agree Surfer can feasibly do most of which you posted and it's part of the reason why he gets the majority I posted.

Anything more than that is pretty unfair to Diana given her own feats/abilities and people claiming it's spite or that Surfer wins 10/10 are wrong.

i think the tiara could cut through his shields to be honest, as well as his skin. her ability to sense the battlefield would make an effective board attack unlikely, imo. disarming her of the lasso also wouldn't be all that easy imo. i also think she could handle most of his ranged attacks. all that said, he is simply more powerful, and i don't see him doing all that poorly in close--at all. in close he could certainly hang with her and if she is engaged, THEN he could also use his energy powers while she's too busy to defend. getting in close is his best bet, imo and it's why i'd say he wins a solid majority. she can take a couple though, and he works for all the wins.

Surfer takes it pretty easily.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think the tiara could cut through his shields to be honest, as well as his skin. her ability to sense the battlefield would make an effective board attack unlikely, imo. disarming her of the lasso also wouldn't be all that easy imo. i also think she could handle most of his ranged attacks. all that said, he is simply more powerful, and i don't see him doing all that poorly in close--at all. in close he could certainly hang with her and if she is engaged, THEN he could also use his energy powers while she's too busy to defend. getting in close is his best bet, imo and it's why i'd say he wins a solid majority. she can take a couple though, and he works for all the wins.



The tiara has cut through force fields and damaged durable beings before. When using the lasso as make shift knuckle dusters, she's also punched through Green Lantern constructs, and has done so before through her own strength.

There's also evidence to suggest that directly attempting to disarm or transmute the lasso would fail.

Surfer doesn't have this fight easy at all.

Lol at Surfer transmuting the Lasso.

May as well say Surfer can transmute Skyfathers' bodies against their wills.

Why does Surfer need to go exotic, when his generic blasts are more than powerful enough to take her with generic blasts?

Surfer has the speed edge, and the power edge.. Significant edges. WW can hurt him with her tools, but Surfers not going to stand there and let her..

Originally posted by cdtm
Why does Surfer need to go exotic, when his generic blasts are more than powerful enough to one shot her?

Surfer has the speed edge, and the power edge.. Significant edges. WW can hurt him with her tools, but Surfers not going to stand there and let her..

Skyfathers have failed to one shot Diana. Other herald beings have likewise failed to one shot her. Given her default durability and her bracers, it's pretty ridiculous to assume that Surfer could. Hell, most of the arguments for Surfer is him going all exotic and pulling out random abilities to beat Diana. Typical "fly around shooting blasts" Surfer has it incredibly difficult to win.

Diana is also a far better combatant. Surfer can hurt Diana to be sure, but Diana's not going to let him, either.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Skyfathers have failed to one shot Diana. Other herald beings have likewise failed to one shot her. Given her default durability and her bracers, it's pretty ridiculous to assume that Surfer could. Hell, most of the arguments for Surfer is him going all exotic and pulling out random abilities to beat Diana. Typical "fly around shooting blasts" Surfer has it incredibly difficult to win.

Diana is also a far better combatant. Surfer can hurt Diana to be sure, but Diana's not going to let him, either.

If a skyfather failed to one shot Diana, it's either PIS or because the skyfather wasn't actually trying to kill him.

Most would agree Superman could hurt her. Surfer blasts are > Supermans fists, as Surfer is > Superman, imo...

Basically, I put Surfer and Infinity Man on the same tier. High herald, low trans, above your top tier character at their best when written correctly.. (And the reason Thor is a good match, is because his hammers power are > Thor the character, and can match or exceed his ridiculous power set..) Surfer certainly has the feats and power set to place him in that position, looking at his long history..

Originally posted by cdtm
If a skyfather failed to one shot Diana, it's either PIS or because the skyfather wasn't actually trying to kill him.

Most would agree Superman could hurt her. Surfer blasts are > Supermans fists, as Surfer is > Superman, imo...

Basically, I put Surfer and Infinity Man on the same tier. High herald, low trans, above your top tier character at their best when written correctly.. Surfer certainly has the feats and power set to place him in that position, looking at his long history..

Not all Skyfathers are the same. It was a high showing for Diana, though.

The point is Surfer's not one-shotting Wonder Woman anytime soon.

Surfer has also 3-shotted BRB, has casually dusted a planet as a warning and has indeed beaten a skyfather and taken his power against his will (UniLord).

Surfer shouldn't really be troubled by WW, imo. I don't see her getting a single win, if Surfer fights as per forum norms. If, on the other hand, he's fighting like he's about to be arm-barred by BP or knocked out by a brick ...

Originally posted by cdtm
If a skyfather failed to one shot Diana, it's either PIS or because the skyfather wasn't actually trying to kill him.

Most would agree Superman could hurt her. Surfer blasts are > Supermans fists, as Surfer is > Superman, imo...

Basically, I put Surfer and Infinity Man on the same tier. High herald, low trans, above your top tier character at their best when written correctly.. (And the reason Thor is a good match, is because his hammers power are > Thor the character, and can match or exceed his ridiculous power set..) Surfer certainly has the feats and power set to place him in that position, looking at his long history..

the bracers can save her from a lot of his energy attacks though. i won't entirely disagree on your opinion of ss, just that magic has hurt him--badly--in the past and her strengths serve her well in this fight.

Are you kidding me? Now people are saying Surfer one-shots WW?

People, really, read some WW comics before you post

Originally posted by leonidas
i think the tiara could cut through his shields to be honest, as well as his skin. her ability to sense the battlefield would make an effective board attack unlikely, imo. disarming her of the lasso also wouldn't be all that easy imo. i also think she could handle most of his ranged attacks. all that said, he is simply more powerful, and i don't see him doing all that poorly in close--at all. in close he could certainly hang with her and if she is engaged, THEN he could also use his energy powers while she's too busy to defend. getting in close is his best bet, imo and it's why i'd say he wins a solid majority. she can take a couple though, and he works for all the wins.

I have no doubt that she could hurt him with the tiara but frankly, her offensive attempts with the tiara leave her open for his attacks. If she is busy defending his energy attacks, board attack becomes much more effective. Also at range her being ability to mount an offensive with the tiara is highly reduced. For the lasso disarmament thing, Surfer could literally blink and encase it in some sort of substance or encase her in some sort of substance quite frankly. Hence the reason I think it is difficult to defend against. You are right for the in close part as well though cuz in close he would have the element of surprise and could probably end the fight quicker since she would have less time to block attacks

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


The tiara has cut through force fields and damaged durable beings before. When using the lasso as make shift knuckle dusters, she's also punched through Green Lantern constructs, and has done so before through her own strength.

There's also evidence to suggest that directly attempting to disarm or transmute the lasso would fail.

Surfer doesn't have this fight easy at all.

Just to point out that im not suggesting Surfer to try to transmute the lasso. Rather entrap it in something to temporarily prevent her from accessing it.

Originally posted by Bentley
Are you kidding me? Now people are saying Surfer one-shots WW?

People, really, read some WW comics before you post
Who's saying he one-shots?
I think you're confusing people countering the notion that he's somehow 'weak' at cqc/h2h battle, with evidence that he would one-shot her.

Personally I would expect him to KO her with a few good blasts, and a board to the back of the head. I just see Surfer's average as being that much higher than her's.

He's taken more damage than any herald leveller (bar Hulk), that I've seen, during his tangle with T&A. He's also been smashed to atoms and reformed instantly (UniLord) to over power a dimensional god (basically a skyfather)...

WW, I'd place somewhere between Nova and BRB.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Just to point out that im not suggesting Surfer to try to transmute the lasso. Rather entrap it in something to temporarily prevent her from accessing it.

Fair enough, but even then, the nature of the lasso's properties, it being a focal point of "truth" and the like, such a method of attempting to entrap it or somehow, especially while it's in her possession, is something I can't say seems really likely. At best, I could see it holding it for a few moments, but that wouldn't be a game changer if Diana was without it for that long by any means.

Surfer could just as easily send her/it into the hyperverse or microverse. If he wanted to pursue that avenue of separating her from her weapons.

He could overwhelm her with points of attack (as he can control ships/objects planet-wide, mentally).

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough, but even then, the nature of the lasso's properties, it being a focal point of "truth" and the like, such a method of attempting to entrap it or somehow, especially while it's in her possession, is something I can't say seems really likely. At best, I could see it holding it for a few moments, but that wouldn't be a game changer if Diana was without it for that long by any means.

I understand that, but that whole focal point of truth thing is fairly ambiguous. I mean I can't really see any connection Between being the focal point of truth and being immune to entrapment. I mean I understand it's magical properties making it immune to straight transmutation and I wouldn't suggest that in the same way I wouldn't suggest surfer transmuting Odin or galactus'. But entrapment is a whole different story id say as even charActers of this level have been entrapped temporarily ( surfer on tud and Odin by thanes) and even thors hammer another magical object has been entrapped by surfer as well.

It was cdtm who suggested Surfer could one-shot Diana, which I hope we all agree, is blowing things out of proportion.

Originally posted by Bentley
It was cdtm who suggested Surfer could one-shot Diana, which I hope we all agree, is blowing things out of proportion.

Where does he say that? I looked, he never said Surfer could one-shot Diana. No one's blowing things out of proportions (unless you count the people who make false accusations).

Originally posted by Naija boy
You are on some kind of drugs...

Surfer hands down. its lauaghable how the same people who claim superman prime will win against hulk via using his speed to overwhelm hulk claim that surfer will go in halfassed and fight wonder woman h2h forgetting his other powers ( even though he is by no means outmatched their).

Easy win for surfer is to stay at range, use his board and omnidirectional blasts for offence, and forcefieldds for defence. He wins comfortably


I think surfer is the more powerful being, but he isnt really going to be able to drain diana and his ranged attacks are going to be nullified by her braclets. I think diana has a decent shot at this. She will fair better against surfer then superman would.

Diana has the tools to defend against surfer unlike other bricks.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Where does he say that? I looked, he never said Surfer could one-shot Diana. No one's blowing things out of proportions (unless you count the people who make false accusations).

No, I did say that.

Surfers top end feats are insane enough to justify it, imo. At times, he's closer to trans level than high herald.

Originally posted by cdtm
No, I did say that.

Surfers top end feats are insane enough to justify it, imo. At times, he's closer to trans level than high herald.

Which post though? I literally looked at all your posts and you didn't say he could "one-shot her". The closes thing is when you said he could beat her with his "generic blasts" and that's it.

I wouldn't go as far as him one-slotting her. He'd work for it but I don't think it'd be excruciatingly hard for him either.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Which post though? I literally looked at all your posts and you didn't say he could "one-shot her". The closes thing is when you said he could beat her with his "generic blasts" and that's it.

Oh, well.. yeah, I didn't go that far.

She is pretty durable, and Surfer holds back a lot. Now, if he was bloodlusted and out of character, that's another story..

This is a good fight. Diana can always deflect the blasts back at Surfer and does have the all protecting Aegis shield. But Surfer can always try that board from behind trick.

If SS beats Diana fighting at his best then I see no reason why he can't beat Thanos either.

Surfer's best chance is to stay ranged and go exotic on her. But in most comics he doesn't really fight opponents like that. There are many instances of him fighting close (Thanos beating him near death for instance). That is why so many argue that Thor could beat Surfer (I disagree by the way).

Naija I agree with you somewhat. But I want to see the same fervor from you when debating Surfer vs. Thor. Debate with heart and don't be scared.

With that said,

Power set wise (CIS off), Surfer beats WW
but factoring in his character and the way he usually fights then I see a split or a slight edge to WW.

Originally posted by h1a8

If SS beats Diana fighting at his best then I see no reason why he can't beat Thanos either.


What?

Originally posted by Bentley
Are you kidding me? Now people are saying Surfer one-shots WW?

People, really, read some WW comics before you post

that's generally true of most Wonder Woman threads...

Originally posted by -Pr-
that's generally true of most Wonder Woman threads...

The same can be said of Surfer threads.

Originally posted by cdtm
The same can be said of Surfer threads.

Sometimes, but at least when Surfer gets the benefit of the doubt, it's the "black holes in people's heads, transmuting, telepathic, too fast/durable/skilled" thing, more than he gets underrated.

Diana on the other hand isn't as lucky. Unless someone wants her to beat Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
If SS beats Diana fighting at his best then I see no reason why he can't beat Thanos either.

Originally posted by cdtm
What?

Think about it. When Thanos bests Surfer would you say that Surfer is fighting at his best as he was shown before?

Some here are pulling out black holes in the brain, phasing through attacks, planet busting blasts, omnidirectional blasts, ftl reflexes, ftl speed, board from behind tricks, amping beyond imagination, encasements, etc. when it comes to Surfer vs. a D.C. character. But let Surfer fight Thor, Thanos, etc. and then the same posters remain silent on those issues.

So like I said, if Surfer beats Diana then he definitely beats Thanos.

Originally posted by h1a8
Think about it. When Thanos bests Surfer would you say that Surfer is fighting at his best as he was shown before?

Some here are pulling out black holes in the brain, phasing through attacks, planet busting blasts, omnidirectional blasts, ftl reflexes, ftl speed, board from behind tricks, amping beyond imagination, encasements, etc. when it comes to Surfer vs. a D.C. character. But let Surfer fight Thor, Thanos, etc. and then the same posters remain silent on those issues.

So like I said, if Surfer beats Diana then he definitely beats Thanos.

baka

Citing techniques/abilities that aren't likely to be used in typical battles isn't a "Marvel supporter" exclusive thing, so don't act like there's some kind of Surfer movement/DC bias. People have done the same thing for Green Lanterns, Firestorm, Superman, and anyone with any semblance of super speed.

Surfer fans and fanboys will be fans and fanboys, same of virtually any character with a fanbase here. Hell, even some WW supporters think she'll insta-lasso/soul rape anyone she fights in a 1 on 1 confrontation.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
baka

Citing techniques/abilities that aren't likely to be used in typical battles isn't a "Marvel supporter" exclusive thing, so don't act like there's some kind of Surfer movement/DC bias. People have done the same thing for Green Lanterns, Firestorm, Superman, and anyone with any semblance of super speed.

Surfer fans and fanboys will be fans and fanboys, same of virtually any character with a fanbase here. Hell, even some WW supporters think she'll insta-lasso/soul rape anyone she fights in a 1 on 1 confrontation. I have no problem with it. I just have a problem when the same posters don't argue with the same fervor against Thor, Hulk, Thanos, etc.

Consistency is all I ask.

The only herald lvler that would have a shot at Surfer is Thor.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
The only herald lvler that would have a shot at Surfer is Thor.

Maybe. But I see no other herald beating Surfer if he fought at his best. He would even give Thanos some big trouble (in a forum fight at his best).

Originally posted by h1a8
Maybe. But I see no other herald beating Surfer if he fought at his best. He would even give Thanos some big trouble (in a forum fight at his best).

No, because even if Thanos can't reproduce everything Surfer can do, he's able to take it all.
Also, his power output is ridiculously above anything Surfer can do.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
No, because even if Thanos can't reproduce everything Surfer can do, he's able to take it all.
Also, his power output is ridiculously above anything Surfer can do. Thanos best power output is lower than SS's best (according to feats). But Thanos average output is greater than SS's average output.

Thanos can't take SS's best output without severe damage. Hell a black hole in Thanos would seriously damage him.

But taking something doesn't mean you won't sustain damage. Surfer has got board from behind tricks, amping beyond to match Thanos, black holes, planet busting blasts, etc.

For defense, Surfer has got phasing, shields, energy absorption, and ftl reflexes and speed.

Surfer at his best would be a hard opponent for Thanos not to lose to.

Thanos can hurt Surfer more easily than the other way around, that matters.

Question: has Surfer ever created a Black Hole in someone's brain?

re: Thanos vs Surfer. As of the end of Annihilation, I'm not sure what the 'gap' is between these two (if any).

Thanos created a containment system to hold Galactus, attuned it to his own power-output-level and then got slaughtered by Drax. Surfer, in a weakened state, managed to output an equal level of power to work the machine into releasing Galactus.

after all that, Surfer went on to fight both T&A with nothing but his own powers and got beat half to death, then in that state, he went and channelled the Crunch Energies in order to destroy T&A. Those energies eventually almost killed him aswell, but then Galactus came and revived him and gave him a power-up.

So ... dunno where Surfer stands now really.

The machine was keyed to Thanos's energy signature, the challenge was to mimick that signature, not to have a certain "power level".

Originally posted by Bentley
The machine was keyed to Thanos's energy signature, the challenge was to mimick that signature, not to have a certain "power level". and Thanos had almost filled the gauge next to the machine for the release mechanism to work, Surfer only finished a tiny bit of it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos best power output is lower than SS's best (according to feats). But Thanos average output is greater than SS's average output.

Thanos can't take SS's best output without severe damage. Hell a black hole in Thanos would seriously damage him.

But taking something doesn't mean you won't sustain damage. Surfer has got board from behind tricks, amping beyond to match Thanos, black holes, planet busting blasts, etc.

For defense, Surfer has got phasing, shields, energy absorption, and ftl reflexes and speed.

Surfer at his best would be a hard opponent for Thanos not to lose to.

Thanos has moleculary control over his own body, being an eternal from Titan.

His feats shows a monstruous gap in term of both power and endurance between the two of them.

Surfer has, over Thanos, versatility, and speed. But Thanos got everything else above Surfer.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Thanos has moleculary control over his own body, being an eternal from Titan.

His feats shows a monstruous gap in term of both power and endurance between the two of them.

Surfer has, over Thanos, versatility, and speed. But Thanos got everything else above Surfer.

Surfer has feats to show that he too has molecular control over his body as well. One time he was in many pieces and he put himself back together (may be PIS though).

Surfer's feat of busting a planet with a mere blast>>>>>anything Thanos has ever shown in blasting power. Now don't get me wrong. Thanos power output>>>>Surfer's output on average.

Thanos has better durability too (mostly to energy blasts though and a little more than Surfer in blunt force physical attacks).

It's Surfer's versatility and speed that would make it hard for Thanos to win against him in a forum fight.

Thanos can hurt Surfer and Surfer (at his best) can hurt Thanos.

Surfer at his cant hurt Thanos enough to win as shown on panel. Fact.

Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer has feats to show that he too has molecular control over his body as well. One time he was in many pieces and he put himself back together (may be PIS though).

Surfer's feat of busting a planet with a mere blast>>>>>anything Thanos has ever shown in blasting power. Now don't get me wrong. Thanos power output>>>>Surfer's output on average.

Thanos has better durability too (mostly to energy blasts though and a little more than Surfer in blunt force physical attacks).

It's Surfer's versatility and speed that would make it hard for Thanos to win against him in a forum fight.

Thanos can hurt Surfer and Surfer (at his best) can hurt Thanos.

I said that about Thanos, because transmutation would have been a way to win over Thanos, but since he can control his own body, Surfer can't use this tactic.

As for the energy blast, who can say, when they are thrown, that they aren't some kind of concussion blast? Also, Thanos durability >>>>> Surfer's. A proof would be when Thor beat the shit out of him, while in Warrior Madness mode, while Thanos went toe-to-toe with him, just for shit and giggles, minutes before he incase him a pure energy block.

Speed and versatility would have been a way to win against another character, but Thanos is to far above Surfer to lose to him. And don't forget: Thanos has his own tricks in his sleave: the guy's full of gadget and device, like his shields. Shields that Surfer don't have the power to pierce. And Thanos is way, way more intelligent and cunning that Surfer, and that gives him another edge.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I said that about Thanos, because transmutation would have been a way to win over Thanos, but since he can control his own body, Surfer can't use this tactic.

As for the energy blast, who can say, when they are thrown, that they aren't some kind of concussion blast? Also, Thanos durability >>>>> Surfer's. A proof would be when Thor beat the shit out of him, while in Warrior Madness mode, while Thanos went toe-to-toe with him, just for shit and giggles, minutes before he incase him a pure energy block.

Speed and versatility would have been a way to win against another character, but Thanos is to far above Surfer to lose to him. And don't forget: Thanos has his own tricks in his sleave: the guy's full of gadget and device, like his shields. Shields that Surfer don't have the power to pierce. And Thanos is way, way more intelligent and cunning that Surfer, and that gives him another edge. Thor never slammed on Thanos. Only jab like strikes connected. The slam attempt by Thor was thrawted by Thanos shield. Anyway Thanos durability is greater than Surfer's but that has nothing to do with character's not fighting at their best. Surfer jobbed to Thor.

Fights in comics hold no water if the characters were not fighting at their best as shown before. That means even though Thanos is portrayed greater than Surfer then that doesn't mean he will beat him in a forum fight when both are fighting at their best.

Surfer has many ways to beat Thanos. The reason he doesn't in comics is because the writer didn't want him to. It's easy to portray a character as superior by making another character job to them.

Surfer can pierce Thanos shields by amping, hitting them with the board at million C, black hole on them, planet busting blast on them, etc. Thanos can't attack with his shields up.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Surfer at his cant hurt Thanos enough to win as shown on panel. Fact. Surfer never faced Thanos at his best. Every confrontation was a job by Surfer.