Which parts of the canon do you pretend aren't real?

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Nephthys
Its all there in the title folks. What are the parts of Star Wars canon that you pretty much ignore and hope go away?

Bonus points for things that havn't happened yet. Like The Exile not having a name. Because she doesn't.

I'll start with the above and Vergere being a Sith, and Jacen being a Sith. Never happened.

Lord Lucien
All of KotOR II.
And Force Unleashed II.
And The Crystal Star.
And The Old Republic.
And Ahsoka Tano.
And Legacy.
And everything post-NJO.
And roughly half of what I watch in The Clone Wars.
And 3 million Clones.
And those books about zombies.
And Han not shooting first.
And Vader saying "Nooo!"
And the dialogue in Dark Empire.
And Lord Nyax.



About half of the mythos, is what I'm saying.

Stealth Moose
Hater's gonna hate.

Nephthys
They are.

Tell us, what doth thou hateth?

Stealth Moose
Well, I think a good portion of the Clone Wars cartoons ought to be revised for consistency, and post-OT EU should be reconsidered since a lot of it early on violates tenets set down by the later-established prequel trilogy. Some EU needs to be scaled down to PT-levels of power, such as the Old Republic era, Dark Empire era, etc. It takes away a lot of the tension in character development and relationships when Yoda's statement about Force use is taken literally and made into Force users who kill galaxies or play ping-pong with planets.

Korto Vos
I liked Tartovsky's Clone Wars cartoon...

Stealth Moose
I thought it was utter garbage. As was said before, if Jedi could leap small mountains, smash in vehicles with their bare hands, and Force TK hundreds as though they were toothpicks, the Battle of Geonosis should have ended with zero Jedi casualties.

The cartoon's grossly exaggerated style becomes enmeshed with "canon" because "GL waved his flabby hand and okay'd it" and therefore we have to conclude within canon that Mace Windu can solo Mordor with his bare hands, but he cannot defeat Sidious before the latter kills his posse.

FML.

Korto Vos
I thought the Jedi were rather downgraded at Geonosis.

I mean these are supposed to be individuals born with superhuman reflexes that have been training with the lightsaber and Force for the majority of their lives, and yet Coleman Trebor, a Jedi Council member, was owned by blaster fire.

Stealth Moose
Granted, his focus was on Dooku, who is a big fish in the Order, but it was a low showing.

S_W_LeGenD
For this topic:

The Force Unleashed
The Force Unleashed II

Absolultely baseless and needless addition to Star Wars mythos. Such a titanic being and yet no mention in the movies. Poor story concept.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Granted, his focus was on Dooku, who is a big fish in the Order, but it was a low showing.
That does not justifies his poor showing.

As an example, Master Ven Zallow could block blaster fire without looking at his opponents.

ares834
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
All of KotOR II.
And Force Unleashed II.
And The Crystal Star.
And The Old Republic.
And Ahsoka Tano.
And Legacy.
And everything post-NJO.
And roughly half of what I watch in The Clone Wars.
And 3 million Clones.
And those books about zombies.
And Han not shooting first.
And Vader saying "Nooo!"
And the dialogue in Dark Empire.
And Lord Nyax.



About half of the mythos, is what I'm saying.

All of this for me as well and a bit more like TotJ (Sith War is still there just heavily edited) and the Bane novels (the Bane comic is there though).

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It takes away a lot of the tension in character development and relationships when Yoda's statement about Force use is taken literally and made into Force users who kill galaxies or play ping-pong with planets.

Agreed. There was a time when Yoda's levitation of the X-Wing was mythical and powerful... Now if you can't destroy planets or blow up stars you're not a threat.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
For this topic:

The Force Unleashed
The Force Unleashed II

Absolultely baseless and needless addition to Star Wars mythos. Such a titanic being and yet no mention in the movies. Poor story concept.


That does not justifies his poor showing.

As an example, Master Ven Zallow could block blaster fire without looking at his opponents.

Your latter example is not necessarily correct. Coleman Trebor was directly in front of Count Dooku, a reputed master of TK and Makashi dueling. Then, the mercenary to his side quickly draws and rains fire on Coleman. Coleman has to deal with two foes at once, mentally if not entirely physically at this point.

A real world example would be if you were about to swordfight Bruce Lee and some fool with a .38 special started unloading on you at the same time. It may have been a low showing without context, yes. But give the guy a break.

Lord Lucien
I've yet to read TotJ. It's on my computer but I just can't get in to it...



And the 2002 Clone Wars cartoon had a few qualities I really enjoyed. Simple entertainment value aside, I like the clones themselves. Quiet and lacking individuality--I can't stand the CGI clones for that. General Grievous was at his finest too. The battles in general were better played out, despite the animation quality--mass death and destruction you'd expect from a war with clones and robots. None of the small scale, squad-sized "armies" taking whole planets and losing a handful of men the CGI has.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Your latter example is not necessarily correct. Coleman Trebor was directly in front of Count Dooku, a reputed master of TK and Makashi dueling. Then, the mercenary to his side quickly draws and rains fire on Coleman. Coleman has to deal with two foes at once, mentally if not entirely physically at this point.

A real world example would be if you were about to swordfight Bruce Lee and some fool with a .38 special started unloading on you at the same time. It may have been a low showing without context, yes. But give the guy a break.
Sir,

Master Zen Vallow was focused on Darth Malgus. In an attempt to take advantage of his situation, Aleena opened fire on the Jedi Master. He deflected her blaster fire back at her without even looking at her and knocked her out.

It all depends upon the skill and state of mind of the Jedi.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
For this topic:

The Force Unleashed
The Force Unleashed II

Absolultely baseless and needless addition to Star Wars mythos. Such a titanic being and yet no mention in the movies. Poor story concept.

Yes because the powers shown in TFU by vader and starkiller are better than all KOTOR characters? Right.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Yes because the powers shown in TFU by vader and starkiller are better than all KOTOR characters? Right.
No, because Garen is so overpowered that it seems like as if can contend with Luke Skywalker on equal footing and yet he finds it hard to defeat Darth Vader and he always spares him. Think about this for a moment. In addition, there is no hint of such a titanic character in the movies.

It is a Revan wannabe type projection but with extremely poor story. Epic Fail.

At least, Darth Plagueis makes sense.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, because Garen is so overpowered that it seems like as if can contend with Luke Skywalker on equal footing and yet he finds it hard to defeat Darth Vader and he always spares him. Think about this for a moment. In addition, there is no hint of such a titanic character in the movies.

It is a Revan wannabe type projection but with extremely poor story. Epic Fail.

At least, Darth Plagueis makes sense. How is Galen a wannabe? I agree he is a bullshit character and i absolutely hate the way he is or the way he is designed.

And don't give me that "no hint of a titanic character" was hinted in the movies. Weren't the clone war cartoons overpowered and so was the TOR trailers?

Face it, you just hate TFU because it makes nearly all its characters superior to your favourite characters in the old republic,

Sith Sorcerer
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Yes because the powers shown in TFU by vader and starkiller are better than all KOTOR characters? Right. Terrible argument considering the TOR characters are more overpowered than TFU.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by Sith Sorcerer
Terrible argument considering the TOR characters are more overpowered than TFU. Watch the TFU 2 trailers.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by shinkoryu
And don't give me that "no hint of a titanic character" was hinted in the movies. Weren't the clone war cartoons overpowered and so was the TOR trailers? Unrelated. Darth Vader goes from kicking ass with powerful telekinesis and withstanding Dragonall Z style energy barrages to... his performance in the OT. That's not a "no hint", that's a flat-out paradox.

mattatom
Thats why he's so weak TFU weakened him wink

Lord Lucien
Little guy got all tuckered out.

mattatom
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Little guy got all tuckered out. Which would explain all the lethargy in vader even with his stregth and machinery all that bashing about musta hurt bad.

Sith Sorcerer
gay

NTJack0
Starkiller.

He's just..awful.

Lord Lucien
Juno Eclipse, who is more awful.

lord starkiller
Originally posted by NTJack0
Starkiller.

He's just..awful. starkiller had your mom for breakfast so I would not be talkin bra

mattatom
Ahsoko Tano, who is the most awful.

truejedi
no, Clone War cartoons simply aren't real. all those fights betweeen dooku and anakin? no. all that ass-kicking by Tano? No.

Zampanů
Ooh, that's a good one. I have edited out Ahsoka from my headcanon.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by truejedi
no, Clone War cartoons simply aren't real. all those fights betweeen dooku and anakin? no. all that ass-kicking by Tano? No.

I like this mode of thought.

Lord Lucien
It makes my inner child smile to imagine that.

Q99
A lot of the stuff I semi accept.

Like the cartoon Clone Wars. In my headcanon, the events happened, but were less over-the-top. Ditto the original TFU (undecided on II). I also pretend Anakin was likable in the Prequel Trilogy (CGI clone wars is definitely in because he really is heroic in that one).


And a lot of the early EU stuff where things were all magic-y, such as Tales of the Jedi and Knights of the Old Republic (No, not the game, or the recent DH comic, the *old* KOTOR). The force stuff doesn't really work that way.


Btw, what do people think of the Holiday Special? smile

Lord Lucien
Holiday Special? What Holiday Special?

mattatom
Only good part of it was the Boba Fett cartoon.

Nephthys
Google '8 Things About the Star Wars Holiday Special That Don't Completely Suck'.

GenomeFrozener
That KOTOR MMORPG, if the story is deemed canon.

Dr McBeefington
I agree. IF this becomes canon, Lucas is getting an ass kicking.

Nephthys
Whats so bad about it? Seems fine to me.

Dr McBeefington
Besides having a demigod for a sith emperor? After reading this novel, I don't understand how any being outside of Abeloth or that Rakata could ever being compared to the emperor, especially Sidious.

Nephthys
Well you also thought Malgus was comparable to Bane and we all saw how that turned out.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well you also thought Malgus was comparable to Bane and we all saw how that turned out. It turned out quite well. I let you guys waste tons of pages with rehashed arguments while I beta tested star wars.

Nephthys
You let us? As if you could contribute anything worthwhile that is.




baitbaitbaitbait

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Nephthys
You let us? As if you could contribute anything worthwhile that is.




baitbaitbaitbait I didn't need to. I made better use of my time.

Nephthys
There is no better use of time than pwning fanboys.

Plus since I'm the only one who debates anymore I teh winner of KMC. I am simply the best there is.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Nephthys
There is no better use of time than pwning fanboys.

Plus since I'm the only one who debates anymore I teh winner of KMC. I am simply the best there is.


You forget that I am the Sith Emperor to your Darth Malak.

Nephthys
Sure. You can spend 1400 years doing jack shit while I conquer half the galaxy in 2.

Stealth Moose
But you use ships and I can pimpslap you into oblivion.

Also, I keep your master in a cell, *****.

Nephthys
I spent time alone in a cell with Bastila.

excellent

Stealth Moose
But you wear a purple cape and a skintight jumpsuit, so you're not fooling anyone.

Also, she wasted no time in jumping on Revan.

... Who I dominated in combat that one time.

Nephthys
Just because I'm fabulous doesn't mean I'm gay.

And then you spent 300 years with a psychic bond with him. He watched you wank!

Stealth Moose
... Yeah, but his girlfriend had to watch too.

Nephthys
Niiiiiiiiice.

Stealth Moose
*Bows*

Thank you.

... I'm not getting any homework done tonight, thanks.

Lord Lucien
You have homework?

Stealth Moose
Yeah, still working on it. The need to post on KMC... overwhelming.

Dr McBeefington
Aren't you 29? Grad school?

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Aren't you 29? Grad school?

Unfortunately not. I quite school to work full time for six years, so now that I'm going back, I'm still one semester away from an Associate's. It's very discouraging to be so far behind, but I'm still determined to finish.

Dr McBeefington
If you're this intelligent without an education, I can only shake my head at what they're teaching in school these days.

Lord Lucien
What are you taking?

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What are you taking?

English, Comparative Religion, Careers in Education, and Computers 101.

Zampanů
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
If you're this intelligent without an education, I can only shake my head at what they're teaching in school these days.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Unfortunately not. I quite school to work full time for six years, so now that I'm going back, I'm still one semester away from an Associate's. It's very discouraging to be so far behind, but I'm still determined to finish.

Dr McBeefington
I'm not sure what the point of that was.

Stealth Moose
I suppose Z considers some college education to be more than "without an education"? Or he might be positing that there is a glimmer of hope in tech schools.

Dr McBeefington
Weird. I guess I consider a bachelor's degree the minimum for "education". Then again, the most brilliant people I've met didn't have one.

Stealth Moose
IMO, the foundation for becoming self-educating and self-aware can start as early as high school IF you have the right instructors or mentors. At that point, you enter college with the desire to learn and expand your understanding. Otherwise, you can take all the classes you want and remain ignorant. I mean, look at Rob Kardashian - education at USC, but all the brains of Beavis and Butt-head. And that's insulting to them.

Q99
Originally posted by Nephthys
Google '8 Things About the Star Wars Holiday Special That Don't Completely Suck'.

Ironically, most of the things on the list still sucked (a few seconds of grainy footage? The dance/song thing? Even the Boba Fett cartoon was merely ok).

Though they did leave out Bea Arthur.

Zampanů
Originally posted by Nephthys
MY GOD, THOSE FOOLS! DON'T THEY KNOW THEY'RE MEDDLING WITH THINGS THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND!


Best item ever.
This is noncanon.

Eminence
troof

Lucius
The vast majority of things I've learned at college have been completely worthless save for the ability to sound smart at cocktail parties.

Most of my college experience has been quite irritating, especially the various liberal arts requirements just to get any kind of worthwhile degree. I look back at classes like Art History and Literature and I realize I threw away thousands of dollars to get some numbers on a piece of paper and listen to some professors blab about dead people and their shitty books.

The only fun classes I've had are the hard science courses I've taken. Physics, Astronomy, Chemistry . . . those were fun and interesting, even if they were only intro classes.

RE: Blaxican
laughing out loud

Lucius
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
laughing out loud

It gets even worse. For awhile I thought I was going into philosophy and took 40 quarter credits of philosophy courses, until I realized what waste that was. I'm going to graduate with 240 quarter credits because I have so much excess crap.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Lucius
It gets even worse. For awhile I thought I was going into philosophy and took 40 quarter credits of philosophy courses, until I realized what waste that was. I'm going to graduate with 240 quarter credits because I have so much excess crap.

AHAHAHA. You could always get your teaching degree.

Stealth Moose
Yeah, good luck with that. Becoming a teacher is a PITA, and remaining one is equally brutal these days. And thanks to No Child Left Behind, goodbye revolutionary teaching methods, hello teaching to the test.

This careeer in education course was a god-send. It made me realize that at this point in my life, I'm not interested in sorting through all that bull just to make 30-35k a year.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Lucius
The vast majority of things I've learned at college have been completely worthless save for the ability to sound smart at cocktail parties.

Most of my college experience has been quite irritating, especially the various liberal arts requirements just to get any kind of worthwhile degree. I look back at classes like Art History and Literature and I realize I threw away thousands of dollars to get some numbers on a piece of paper and listen to some professors blab about dead people and their shitty books.

The only fun classes I've had are the hard science courses I've taken. Physics, Astronomy, Chemistry . . . those were fun and interesting, even if they were only intro classes. Wurd.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yeah, good luck with that. Becoming a teacher is a PITA, and remaining one is equally brutal these days. And thanks to No Child Left Behind, goodbye revolutionary teaching methods, hello teaching to the test.

This careeer in education course was a god-send. It made me realize that at this point in my life, I'm not interested in sorting through all that bull just to make 30-35k a year. Was talking about a PhD to become a college professor. Best paid job for the amount of hours worked.

chilled monkey
*Struggling desperately to wrestle thread back on-topic*

I like to imagine that the Prequel Trilogy isn't canon. Seriously the entire thing is garbage. Examples;

* Midi-chlorians? Stupidest idea ever.

* Anakin and Amidala's "relationship" (laughs)

* Jedi being a brainwashing cult that can legally take children from their parents.

I could go on but I think that'll do for now.

Lucius
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Was talking about a PhD to become a college professor. Best paid job for the amount of hours worked.

I rarely see my professors. It's like they can't be bothered to teach more than two days a week, so they get some grad student to do it for them.

Dr McBeefington
Originally posted by Lucius
I rarely see my professors. It's like they can't be bothered to teach more than two days a week, so they get some grad student to do it for them.

Which is why:

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I thought it was utter garbage. As was said before, if Jedi could leap small mountains, smash in vehicles with their bare hands, and Force TK hundreds as though they were toothpicks, the Battle of Geonosis should have ended with zero Jedi casualties.

The cartoon's grossly exaggerated style becomes enmeshed with "canon" because "GL waved his flabby hand and okay'd it" and therefore we have to conclude within canon that Mace Windu can solo Mordor with his bare hands, but he cannot defeat Sidious before the latter kills his posse.

FML.

Was just a bit of fun, targeting kids as an audience. Most viewers watching it can see that. It only becomes an issue when nerds like us get into a feat war.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Unrelated. Darth Vader goes from kicking ass with powerful telekinesis and withstanding Dragonall Z style energy barrages to... his performance in the OT. That's not a "no hint", that's a flat-out paradox.

To be fair he was never given much of a challenge in the OT. An old hermit, and a farmboy. No real need to go all out.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
To be fair he was never given much of a challenge in the OT. An old hermit, and a farmboy. No real need to go all out. Actually he was given amazing challenge in the OT. Kenobi was no pushover for Vader, Luke seriously pushed him in ESB, and he was legitimately beating by him in RotJ. All G-canon fact.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Actually he was given amazing challenge in the OT. Kenobi was no pushover for Vader, Luke seriously pushed him in ESB, and he was legitimately beating by him in RotJ. All G-canon fact.

Tbh I dnt think the ESB and ROTJ fights looked that bad. Certainly not any worse than Mace vs Palpatine. Plus Vader showed some nice power in ESB: Force Choking over the view screen and deflecting Blaster fire casually with his hand.

As for ANH yeah that was just bad. What can you do it was made in '77, but according to Wise old Lucas it was a bad fight because Ben was an Old man now and Vader a Machine..

Sooo... Make what you want of that.. Il just imagine they were both much better at using the Force than at Fencing, but chose to engage in a Lightsaber duel instead, you know for old times sake.

ares834
The ANH fight's slow pace had nothing to do with it being made in '77. Rather it was because Lucas originally intended to have the lightsaber be incredibly heavy and difficult to use. As for ESB and RotJ, those are certainly my favorite fights in all the films.

Lord Lucien
And it's the fact that we have to start justifying like that which me makes me want to punch Lucas right in his gold-plated balls.

Nephthys
You've been getting increasingly angry these days.

Lord Lucien
Actually I plateaued a while back, it's just hard to communicate degree through text. I think it has something to do with the advent of The Old Republic singularity, where everything in Star Wars merges into one, unimaginably horrible fanservice moneygrab.


And I don't get to be a part of it because I'm a bitter old sod who refuses to let go of the "good 'ol days".

Stealth Moose
So yeah, TOR rules. Just had to say it.

Lord Lucien
Uh huh.

Stealth Moose
Like, really good. Euphoric, even.

Lord Lucien
I'm still riding this high:


c9eGtyqz4gY

Stealth Moose
That's hilarious!

And I like Skyrim, really, I do.

But TOR gives me a fully voice-acted protagonist who can murder people and get rewarded for it, not just some prisoner turned mythical hero with whom you end up looting people just out of sheer boredom.

Zampanů
Originally posted by chilled monkey
*Struggling desperately to wrestle thread back on-topic*

5TrU6613 a11 Y0u 11K3. n0 0N3 w111 H3aR y0U.

I ACTUALLY REALLY ENJOY THIS ASPECT OF THE ORDER

Nephthys
Oh? Tell us more.

Zampanů
THE ORDER IS AFFORDED A COMICALLY REVERED POSITION IN THE MINDS OF THE MASSES, TO THE POINT THAT JEDI ARE BELIEVED INVINCIBLE (ADMITTEDLY BY A 6 YEAR OLD BUT GO WITH IT) I THINK THAT THE UNDERBELLY OF PARASITISM LENDS SOME OF THE ONLY CANON DISSONANCE BETWEEN THE JEDI IDEAL AND EXECUTION AFTER ALL IT WAS THAT SAME IDEALISTIC COMPLACENCY THAT ULTIMATELY LED TO THE DOWNFALL OF THE ORDER

Stealth Moose
I think the whole reason why they failed is because all the grand masters were midgets. Clearly, this is the reason for their fall.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by ares834
The ANH fight's slow pace had nothing to do with it being made in '77. Rather it was because Lucas originally intended to have the lightsaber be incredibly heavy and difficult to use. As for ESB and RotJ, those are certainly my favorite fights in all the films.

It doesnt really make sense that the ANH fight was bad because the Lightsabers were supposed to be heavy considering how strong Vader was shown to be.

Im guessing it was more down to a limited budget and time to get the original movie done. But your right ESB and ROTJ fights certainly redeemed Vader. They are actually superior to some of the PT fights imo.

Unfortunately Old Ben got no such redemption, so we might have to just chalk that down to his age (which is actually what Lucas has said in the ANH commentary).

On the other hand if we are to equate power to how spectacular a fight looks, then Mace and Palpatine would be pretty weak, so we obviously cant do that.

Stealth Moose
To clarify, the fight scene in ANH was so horrible because the weapons themselves were flimsy and attached via cords which in turn powered the rotation of reflective surfaces that gave the weapons their "glow". Prowse actually hit Alec Guinness by mistake and sent him flying, so they had to tone down the fight so that Alec wouldn't get manhandled and also so that the jury-rigged sabers wouldn't break.

So that's your real explanation as to why the fight sucked. If you want to add a bunch of "in-universe" bullshit like Obi-Wan was too old (even though Dooku was much much older) then that's your opinion.

Lord Lucien
The excuse of Kenobi being out of practise, Vader being a machine, Yoda being sick, and Luke being a novice always made sense when it cam to reconciling the OT and PT fights.

ares834
Honestly, I never saw why people found the fights to be less impressive in ESB and RotJ. Specifically since the Mace Windu and Sidious duel is far slower and less flashy. The only duels that were noticably faster than ESB, at least for me, was the Maul duel and Anakin vs Kenobi. All the other duels are simply more flashy in other worlds they twirl their sabers around.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by ares834
Honestly, I never saw why people found the fights to be less impressive in ESB and RotJ. Specifically since the Mace Windu and Sidious duel is far slower and less flashy. The only duels that were noticably faster than ESB, at least for me, was the Maul duel and Anakin vs Kenobi. All the other duels are simply more flashy in other worlds they twirl their sabers around.

There's truth to this. OT fights were more practical and better on atmosphere and dramatics. ANH was simply pathetic, but it wasn't meant to be a show-stealer.

The fight between Mace and Sidious was ruined by the fact that GL at the last second decided to dispense with subbing in trained experts. I personally would have rather seen that, than two non-experts slowly wading around each other, relying on close-ups to take away from the fact that they fight like two kids with pool noodles.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Stealth Moose

So that's your real explanation as to why the fight sucked. If you want to add a bunch of "in-universe" bullshit like Obi-Wan was too old (even though Dooku was much much older) then that's your opinion.

Just to clarify, not my opinion, its what Lucas says in ANH commentary of the fight. So its "his" bullshit in-universe explanation.

Me, I personally would like to think of Old Ben being more powerful than his ROTS counterpart.

Originally posted by ares834
Honestly, I never saw why people found the fights to be less impressive in ESB and RotJ. Specifically since the Mace Windu and Sidious duel is far slower and less flashy. The only duels that were noticably faster than ESB, at least for me, was the Maul duel and Anakin vs Kenobi. All the other duels are simply more flashy in other worlds they twirl their sabers around.

Oh yeah ESB is defo one of my fav lightsaber fights of the Saga. Still! But maybe the psychological game Vader was playing with young Luke added to that.

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