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The issue of continuity has long been a tricky one, and almost whenever some of the more outlandish feats from the EU are brought up people are quick to call them overpowered and inconsistent.

This thread not only deals with the concerns about inconsistency but also with the meta-textual issues to do with having characters that powerful. Sometimes its hard to see the EU characters as connected to the movie guys. In short, for whatever reasons, do you think the EU is overpowered?

Here is a classic case of what we're talking about with the inconsistency:

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...


Really? This has to be one of our most enduring b*tches. Short answer: Yes.


Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeees.

Well I don't think so. imking

Giga Drains (Nihilus, Dark Reaper, Thought Bomb), supernovas, dimensional wormholes, both Clone Wars series, TFU's and TOR's Dragonball Z powers... I know there's more, but those are what come to mind most often. I really miss the good 'ol days, where the greatest feats of power were Yoda vs. Palpatine.

But if we didn't have all that stuff, these forums would be soooooo boring! Plus I think its slightly silly that Jedi are supposed to take on the advanced tech that the Republic should logically have with such weak powers. If we go by just the movies a dude with a machine gun could run rampant through the Jedi Temple. Force powers in the movies were realy shit. As in I don't know why anyone would really bother.

Do you remember how the Jedi were in the KotOR games? The in-game version. They could jump far, but not that far. They could move things with their mind, but not that much. They could take a lot of punishment, but not that much.

That's the Jedi that I've always liked. Luke being able to leap in the air like in ESB or RotJ--not 20 football fields like Mace. Yoda able to move an X-Wing with a lot of concentration--not a Star Destroyer. Vader choking someone from the other side of a ship--not blowing up a star. Palpatine dishing out Force Lightning---not wormholes.

The acrobatics of TFU and TOR, the DBZ powers, the impossible damage threshold, the planet-killing, mass-destroying Force powers, the countless number of species and individuals who are Force-senstive... there's just... too much. I guess I'm 'okay' with what we have now--it's cool and fun enough. But I'm always gonna look more fondly on the dumbed down, underdeveloped Jedi and Force powers of the OT and KotOR, because that's the Star Wars that first drew me in.

The movies depicted the Force as being a subtle thing- moving objects with the Force, Mind Tricks, etc. The EU depicts it as magic and super powers.

I believe some EU material has suffered because of this. Writers continue to try one-upping each other with the next new shocking power that nobody has ever seen before.

I think that what is displayed in the movies was only so little because of available technology. I believe it was meant to be a little more... powerful than that, but not as much as some of the ridiculous feats in sweu, like some Lucien mentioned.

Short answer: Some(few) are, most aren't.

I agree with Lucien, when I think of "ideal force standards" I set it as Kotor, Force Storm there was what Bane did in the Archives in POD not what Sidious did in DE. I prefer the former to the latter, by far.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
...


Really? This has to be one of our most enduring b*tches. Short answer: Yes.


Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeees.

I'd say short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Depends on the EU thing in question.


The comics released from SW: Republic on (Republic/Clone War/KotoR/Legacy/Dark Times/etc.) tend to be rather good about force power. Even when someone is 'uber-powerful', they don't do any silly fling around starships stuff.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd say short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Depends on the EU thing in question.


The comics released from SW: Republic on (Republic/Clone War/KotoR/Legacy/Dark Times/etc.) tend to be rather good about force power. Even when someone is 'uber-powerful', they don't do any silly fling around starships stuff. I haven't read any comics aside from Dark Empire (which sucks BTW), but from what I know about Legacy ala Wookieepedia, there's still a good deal of Force powers being hucked around. Krayt's Lightning Storm that burned Azlyn Rae comes to mind. KotOR looks okay, though.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I haven't read any comics aside from Dark Empire (which sucks BTW),

Yea, later stuff is much better, it's not even the same league.

Basically anything after the PT came out, which set the power levels at proper levels, and unlike the written novel people they stuck with that.




There's power, but it's much much more subdued than DE stuff and much closer to movie stuff. The one that burned Azlyn was both Krayt and the ancient Sith Lord Karness Muur in a lightning fight and Azlyn literally stuck her lightsaber into the middle of it (pretty much what you'd expect to kill someone), I don't think it's out of line with what movie Palpatine level people could do.

The big 'super force power' that is a key drive for the plot is... strong force healing. Muur's terrifying power is a plague (as in, a literal virus) that he can make and control. In other words, there's some impressive stuff, but it's not "see how many ships I can blow up!" or "I can rip holes in space!" things at any point.


Or there's the Knights of the Old Republic comic, where the main character isn't even a knight, let alone a master, and simply isn't uber at all. Nor do the other knights in the series show any powers that aren't in the movies- TK, visions, and sabers for them.

Why do comics have more subdued Force powers than other media? Kinda backwards.

Lazy animators? Dunno. I have always unabashedly hated how lightsaber duels are drawn in comics, though.

Anyway, as far as force powers go, I don't really mind extreme force powers so long as they aren't obviously just Dungeons and Dragons-esque magic bullshit with "force" used as a prefix; example being creating fireballs/freezing things, creating "creatures" and shapes out of "force energy", the force having a color (only force lightning gets a pass on that one), force fields and flying. As long as it stays within the realm of telekinesis I don't really mind if someone shows the ability to toss a star destroyer; because frankly Yoda struggling to lift an X-Wing is bullshit. In A New Hope we have Vader making casual off-hand remarks about destroying planets being insignificant next to what one can achieve with the force, almost as if he knew from first hand experience, yet we're supposed to believe that one of the wisest and most powerful Jedi in the mythos has only just barely enough power to lift a single ship ten feet into the air? As Neph said, it's hard to take the force seriously, and view jedi as these ultimate warriors whose mere presense casts all observers into a stupor of disbelief, when the abilities they show aren't impressive enough to keep them alive even in our own world. Return of the Sith Yoda with the abilities he showcased in only the movies wouldn't last a day against any real world law enforcement or militia.

Also "wars not make one great". From the OT, I never really gathered that the Jedi were 'soldiers' and certainly not 'warriors'--hence Luke's naive statement. Not monks either, more like peaceful samurai who had a fixation on tangible Buddhism. They 'fought' in the ambiguous Clone Wars, but only Vader and Luke really seemed to have formal military training--for obvious reasons. I never imagined them as some arm of the law or security force. Just a semi-secluded order of weirdos with some cool abilities. It was the Dark Side that offered up powers and offensive capabilities.


But yeah, given what the mythos has become with the onset of the PT, they needed to boost their powers. It's just I wish they had never had the need to. Star Wars has always felt cooler when the Force was smaller and more removed, and it shared a larger spotlight with the space-age technology. It really hit a low for me when The Clone Wars introduced body morphing and teleportation/conjuration---i.e. Dragonball Z.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Also "wars not make one great". From the OT, I never really gathered that the Jedi were 'soldiers' and certainly not 'warriors'--hence Luke's naive statement. Not monks either, more like peaceful samurai who had a fixation on tangible Buddhism. They 'fought' in the ambiguous Clone Wars, but only Vader and Luke really seemed to have formal military training--for obvious reasons. I never imagined them as some arm of the law or security force. Just a semi-secluded order of weirdos with some cool abilities. It was the Dark Side that offered up powers and offensive capabilities.

But Obi-Wan called them the 'defenders of the Republic.'


Edit: Well actually it was 'For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.'

Close enough

Plus they had ****ing laser swords. I mean come on.

Considering the EU for a moment--given how easily produced lightsabers were (think all those clones of Starkiller), and how most soldiers had a working knowledge of... swords--lightsabers themselves shouldn't mean shite. Also, cortosis... everywhere. Like how a samurai or a knight had a sword and really knew how to use it, but a couple of guys with bows or crossbows--ha ha! Honestly I just never pictured the Jedi as these super-powered ubermensch who could solo armies. Guys who knew how to handle their shit, but could still be defeated by a skilled enough and prepared opponent. The EU has shown us that "Nah, prep and skill be damned--FORCE OWNS EVERYONE!! Now... Kaaaa... meeee... haaaa.... meee... DIE!"


That is naught but boring to me, and it belong in kids shows and silly... video... games... huh. Nevermind, that is exactly what Star Wars has become.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Considering the EU for a moment--given how easily produced lightsabers were (think all those clones of Starkiller), and how most soldiers had a working knowledge of... swords--lightsabers themselves shouldn't mean shite. Also, cortosis... everywhere. Like how a samurai or a knight had a sword and really knew how to use it, but a couple of guys with bows or crossbows--ha ha! Honestly I just never pictured the Jedi as these super-powered ubermensch who could solo armies. Guys who knew how to handle their shit, but could still be defeated by a skilled enough and prepared opponent. The EU has shown us that "Nah, prep and skill be damned--FORCE OWNS EVERYONE!! Now... Kaaaa... meeee... haaaa.... meee... DIE!"


That is naught but boring to me, and it belong in kids shows and silly... video... games... huh. Nevermind, that is exactly what Star Wars has become.


A lightsaber is a bit different than a sword. If you accidentally touch yourself with it you'd lose your arm. Its a weapon that pretty much requires super powers to handle.

And if you had cortosis everywhere, that would seriously undermine the coolness of a lightsaber. A jedi with a lightsaber? Shit, send a few stromtroopers with some cortosis out and let them **** him up royal.

IDK, basically your complaint seems to be 'This isn't the Star Wars I wanted!' No offense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A lightsaber is a bit different than a sword. If you accidentally touch yourself with it you'd lose your arm. Its a weapon that pretty much requires super powers to handle.

And if you had cortosis everywhere, that would seriously undermine the coolness of a lightsaber. A jedi with a lightsaber? Shit, send a few stromtroopers with some cortosis out and let them **** him up royal.

IDK, basically your complaint seems to be 'This isn't the Star Wars I wanted!' No offense. The "cortosis everywhere" wasn't my solution, it's Expanded Universe fact: there's cortosis everywhere.

The "EU Jedi are too powerful" for a reason. Not because it doesn't make sense in canon (which it doesn't) but because it makes for a very boring story. RotS and The Clone Wars are great examples--lots of explosions and lasers and powers and this, but very much lacking in character development, story, immersion, and likeability. No substance, no... soul, you could say. And I attribute that primarily to the obsession with providing special effects above all else. And the best way to do that in Star Wars is to over-hype the Force.


This is what Star Wars used to be.


This is what Star Wars has become.


And no, it's not a case of nostalgia (I didn't get in to any of this until Ep. III came out). It's a case of cinematic and storytelling quality, and the EU these days is drawing a pretty big deficit.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The "cortosis everywhere" wasn't my solution, it's Expanded Universe fact: there's cortosis everywhere.

The "EU Jedi are too powerful" for a reason. Not because it doesn't make sense in canon (which it doesn't) but because it makes for a very boring story. RotS and The Clone Wars are great examples--lots of explosions and lasers and powers and this, but very much lacking in character development, story, immersion, and likeability. No substance, no... soul, you could say. And I attribute that primarily to the obsession with providing special effects above all else. And the best way to do that in Star Wars is to over-hype the Force.


This is what Star Wars used to be.


This is what Star Wars has become.


And no, it's not a case of nostalgia (I didn't get in to any of this until Ep. III came out). It's a case of cinematic and storytelling quality, and the EU these days is drawing a pretty big deficit.

I've never run into an overabundence of cortosis except in the Kotor games. And in there: duh. They needed to explain why lightsabers didn't just cut clean through melee weapons and armor.

(I'm assuming that you're talking about the old Clone Wars considering how conservative the new one is with the Force)

I really disagree. You have to remember that the Clone Wars cartoons are just that- cartoons. Their primary purpose is action and entertainment. And they still have a great sense of character and charm. Sure a lot of its fighting, but thats because the entire story is about a war. Thats why its so action focused. And even then I found that it told the story of Anakin's growing anger very well and believably. In fact, I'd say masterfully considering they manage to do it using basically zero words. Its perfect in its character development of him as a likeable, charismatic, powerful Jedi who embraces his growing anger in the face of the war. In my opinion this scene is one of the best in the mythos:

jwMhX0iWUes

Also: The Clone Wars episodes were about 6 minutes each.

Can't really fit much character development in there.

Other than that theres only really the Force Unleashed series, which I agree is crap. Its enjoyable crap but I agree that its crap in terms of story and heart. And its a video game. I mean come on, its all about fighting.

I'm gonna bold everything you said that's causing me to care less and less about Star Wars.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've never run into an overabundence of cortosis except in the Kotor games. And in there: duh. They needed to explain why lightsabers didn't just cut clean through melee weapons and armor.

(I'm assuming that you're talking about the old Clone Wars considering how conservative the new one is with the Force)

I really disagree. You have to remember that the Clone Wars cartoons are just that- cartoons. Their primary purpose is action and entertainment. And they still have a great sense of character and charm. Sure a lot of its fighting, but thats because the entire story is about a war. Thats why its so action focused. And even then I found that it told the story of Anakin's growing anger very well and believably. In fact, I'd say masterfully considering they manage to do it using basically zero words. Its perfect in its character development of him as a likeable, charismatic, powerful Jedi who embraces his growing anger in the face of the war. In my opinion this scene is one of the best in the mythos:

jwMhX0iWUes

Also: The Clone Wars episodes were about 6 minutes each.

Can't really fit much character development in there.

Other than that theres only really the Force Unleashed series, which I agree is crap. Its enjoyable crap but I agree that its crap in terms of story and heart. And its a video game. I mean come on, its all about fighting.Cortosis is everywhere. And that's only one lightsber-resistant substance.


Actually I was talking about The Clone Wars (CGI), not Clone Wars (anime). The CGI is nothing but an explosion-filled, laser-crossed, saber-studded, trite-stuffed, kid-targeted, snore-fest. It really says something about the comparative quality when the 6-minute shorts that were f*cking jacked with over-the-top superpowers and limited dialogue and exposition had better character development. The only decent bit of growth Anakin (or anyone) faced in the CGI was his trials with the Son and Daughter. Which he promptly forgot.


Look, my point is that all the major releases since the PT ended are becoming more and more... ridiculous. And like I said, I'm attributing that to LucasArts' determination to milk the flashy cow as much as possible. The Force Unleashed games are the prime example of that. BioWare's past genius in KotOR is being squandered on a MMORPG that by its very nature, doesn't end. The orbiting stories they release to market it are rushed and half-assed--e.g. the shitty Revan excerpts and the shoddy Timeline videos coupled with the Dragonball trailers. The Bane novels follow the same super-powered, poorly written fanfic formula, the Legacy comics are all about "Look--Sith! And lightsabers! And a KotOR reference! And the Empire again! And dead Jedi again! And cool Force powers again! And Skywalker again!" Nothing good, just flashy, fun, stupid entertainment.

And I'm fine with that! So long as that was all there ever was. But Star Wars has been 100x better--the OT, KotOR, many of the earlier novels... I actually struggled to think of anything else--oh, the Jedi Knight series. Good stories with interesting characters and plots. Most of it done without the use of TFU/TOR/Clone Wars/PT/DE/Legacy/POD etc. style "LOOK AT OUR COOL STUFF, BRO!"

And more's on the way, I guarantee it. As soon as motion-controls are patched up enough, a multi-console lightsaber hack-and-slash will be released. I foresee a Left 4 Dead style game---lots of limbs, and not an ounce of story. Doubtless it will involve Darth Vader and Starkiller's clone teaming up with time-traveling Jedi from the future to combat an extra-dimensional Sith threat! My God... the LucasArts staff will be blinded by the dollar signs in their eyes.



It's why I'm kinda glad Tolkien's dead.

I don't really see how you can blame the CGI Clone Wars being crappy on EU Jedi being overpowered. The CGI is very similar to the movies in terms of abilities and action.

As to the other stuff, video games are by their very nature focused on conflict and fighting and thats where most of this is coming from. I give zero shit about this because it can improve combat. I mean, no-one wants to fight with shit Force powers. It can be done. If you like the more low key stuff you still have Kotor and the Jedi Knight games.

Other than that, you havn't read the Legacy stuff so you can't judge it and nothing else has anything to do with overpowered Jedi.

There are shitty parts of every franchise. It doesn't make it all shit. The Plagueis novel looks ****ing sweet. I think you're just frustrated at some of the shittier aspects of Star Wars. But thats why I made the 'parts of SW you ignore' thread. Just ignore those parts, no-ones making you watch or read them. I mean, you're clearly not the intended demographic for Clone War CGI. Don't get pissed when you hate it, is all I'm saying.


You're glad Tolkeins dead because Star Wars sucks and isn't like it used to be? What, because LotR had so much character development and soul, amiright? ¬_¬


P.S. The TOR trailers are ****ing awesome. Screw the haters.

Oh God! We're breaking this down in to point-by-points.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't really see how you can blame the CGI Clone Wars being crappy on EU Jedi being overpowered. The CGI is very similar to the movies in terms of abilities and action.The CGI isn't too overpowered, but it is... what's the word... flashy. Very flashy. And not in the fun, entertaining way the games give us. I marathoned the first three seasons and boy howdy did all the action just start to suck. It was just so... flashy. In that crappy, pre-determined, kinda way. The QTE fights in TFU are actually very stylish and creative looking, but the CGI fights... ugh. Every single person with a lightsaber is on par with everyone else. I don't know how they managed to pull that off, but they did it. So no, the CGI isn't any more over-powered than the PT, but the animation, characters, plot-direction, and the lightsaber fights suck ballz. Like, a lot. It's my third biggest peeve with the show.


Originally posted by Nephthys
As to the other stuff, video games are by their very nature focused on conflict and fighting and thats where most of this is coming from. I give zero shit about this because it can improve combat. I mean, no-one wants to fight with shit Force powers. It can be done. If you like the more low key stuff you still have Kotor and the Jedi Knight games. I do, because of its throwback to the OT, which I hold as the only 'worthwhile' Star Wars. No fancy powers, no flashy sword fights. Lots of character development (moreso for KotOR than JA, but still both more than most others) and immersive stories. TFU was designed to be short and sweet, and if that's all you care about, those games are masterpieces. I care far more about story and contribution the mythos' canon than I do about performing a super sweet combo on a Shadow Guard with my compressed red lightsaber and Darth Stalker skin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Other than that, you havn't read the Legacy stuff so you can't judge it and nothing else has anything to do with overpowered Jedi.I've read enough of the 29 issues I have on my hard drive to recognize crappy, flashy, fan-style comic when I see it. The PT is unadulterated crap no matter the level of Force powers (the lightsaber fights are still soulless and boring). The Clone Wars CGI follows suit brilliantly. The anime is over-powered Force powers incarnate. TFU and TOR are brothers in that same category (though at least the MMO's trailers and QTE's for TFU are actually cool). And the Bane novels are the Bane novels--global Force Storms, global life-drainers, lightsaber-resistant super beetles, and Drew Karpyshyn-written saber fights--that is to say, "meh". I've never actually finished DoE, so I won't judge that book beyond the first four agonizing chapters.


Originally posted by Nephthys
There are shitty parts of every franchise. It doesn't make it all shit. The Plagueis novel looks ****ing sweet. I think you're just frustrated at some of the shittier aspects of Star Wars. But thats why I made the 'parts of SW you ignore' thread. Just ignore those parts, no-ones making you watch or read them. I mean, you're clearly not the intended demographic for Clone War CGI. Don't get pissed when you hate it, is all I'm saying. You're missing my point. I DO ignore them. That doesn't mean they're immune from criticism or scorn. I don't pay attention to Saudi Arabia's treatment of women but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna criticize the glaring flaws when I see them, or that I should pretend it doesn't exist. The post-2005 Star Wars material is not the Star Wars I like--the stories are on average, crap, the characters suck, the lightsaber fights and Force powers are tiresome and overblown (on average--some gems do exist). And in response to your OP, yes, they are over-powered, and it's having two effects:

#1: It's making for some really b*tchin' and cool stuff, like The Old Republic trailers, or The Force Unleashed gameplay, or the mindlessly silly and thought-free television show. I love that those things exist, because I like those kinds of things. But the cost is--


#2: De-valuing and depreciating the quality storytelling that the Star Wars name used to possess. As I've said ad nauseum, the stories and characters suck these days. Lazy/inept writers, marketing schedules, focus on visuals more than emotion, rushed production, lack of original ideas, over-dependence on Force powers.


"Beauty is as beauty does." The Star Wars Trilogy was a cinematic masterpiece not just for its pretty starships and laser swords. That realization seems to have been lost on it's license holders nowadays who are convinced that a good medium is defined by how many colors and superpowers they can shove in to a scene.


Originally posted by Nephthys
You're glad Tolkeins dead because Star Wars sucks and isn't like it used to be? What, because LotR had so much character development and soul, amiright? ¬_¬ I'm glad Tolkien's dead because now we'll never have to curse his name like we do Lucas for re-writing The Hobbit to include Bilbo lassoing Smaug and riding him back to the Shire.


Originally posted by Nephthys
P.S. The TOR trailers are ****ing awesome. Screw the haters. F*ckin A.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Oh God! We're breaking this down in to point-by-points.

Oh ****! We're doing this bro! We're actually debating!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The CGI isn't too overpowered, but it is... what's the word... flashy. Very flashy. And not in the fun, entertaining way the games give us. I marathoned the first three seasons and boy howdy did all the action just start to suck. It was just so... flashy. In that crappy, pre-determined, kinda way. The QTE fights in TFU are actually very stylish and creative looking, but the CGI fights... ugh. Every single person with a lightsaber is on par with everyone else. I don't know how they managed to pull that off, but they did it. So no, the CGI isn't any more over-powered than the PT, but the animation, characters, plot-direction, and the lightsaber fights suck ballz. Like, a lot. It's my third biggest peeve with the show.

Oh, I agree. I don't like the CGI anymore than you do. And I agree with TFU being better. At least in that theres was the was weight and it made you feel like a badass. The first time Starkiller rammed Rahm Kota's head into the ceiling I was like 'Woah! Jesuschrist!' The CGI is just...... gaudy. I guess its just not visuably appealling.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I do, because of its throwback to the OT, which I hold as the only 'worthwhile' Star Wars. No fancy powers, no flashy sword fights. Lots of character development (moreso for KotOR than JA, but still both more than most others) and immersive stories. TFU was designed to be short and sweet, and if that's all you care about, those games are masterpieces. I care far more about story and contribution the mythos' canon than I do about performing a super sweet combo on a Shadow Guard with my compressed red lightsaber and Darth Stalker skin.

Again I agree. I care much more about plot than gameplay, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy mndless action every now and then.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I've read enough of the 29 issues I have on my hard drive to recognize crappy, flashy, fan-style comic when I see it. The PT is unadulterated crap no matter the level of Force powers (the lightsaber fights are still soulless and boring). The Clone Wars CGI follows suit brilliantly. The anime is over-powered Force powers incarnate. TFU and TOR are brothers in that same category (though at least the MMO's trailers and QTE's for TFU are actually cool). And the Bane novels are the Bane novels--global Force Storms, global life-drainers, lightsaber-resistant super beetles, and Drew Karpyshyn-written saber fights--that is to say, "meh". I've never actually finished DoE, so I won't judge that book beyond the first four agonizing chapters.

Eh, I havn't so I can't say. But I've heard nice things about it.

Agreed on both points. The PT and CW can push off.

I love the anime, but I guess we had to disagree on something.

I liked TFU and TOR looks good.

Meh on the Bane novels. I didn't even start DoE. I got to the fighting the rain part and lost interest.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You're missing my point. I DO ignore them. That doesn't mean they're immune from criticism or scorn. I don't pay attention to Saudi Arabia's treatment of women but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna criticize the glaring flaws when I see them, or that I should pretend it doesn't exist. The post-2005 Star Wars material is not the Star Wars I like--the stories are on average, crap, the characters suck, the lightsaber fights and Force powers are tiresome and overblown (on average--some gems do exist). And in response to your OP, yes, they are over-powered, and it's having two effects:

#1: It's making for some really b*tchin' and cool stuff, like The Old Republic trailers, or The Force Unleashed gameplay, or the mindless silliness and thought-free television show. I love that those things exist, because I like those kinds of things. But the cost is--


#2: De-valuing and depreciating the quality storytelling that the Star Wars name used to possess. As I've said ad nauseum, the stories and characters suck these days. Lazy/inept writers, marketing schedules, focus on visuals more than emotion, rushed production, lack of original ideas, over-dependence on Force powers.


"Beauty is as beauty does." The Star Wars Trilogy was a cinematic masterpiece not just for its pretty starships and laser swords. That realization seems to have been lost on it's license holders nowadays who are convinced that a good medium is defined by how many colors and superpowers they can shove in to a scene.

Fair enough. Very well said. I seem to be struggling to disagree here.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm glad Tolkien's dead because now we'll never have to curse his name like we do Lucas for re-writing The Hobbit to include Bilbo lassoing Smuag and riding him back to the Shire.

Well the Hobbit movie's coming up so theres still time for us to be cursing someones name.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
F*ckin A.

I just wish Legend wouldn't hype them so much. I suppose every sunny day has a drought.

Sorry for the short sentences. I'm running on steam. :C

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Why do comics have more subdued Force powers than other media? Kinda backwards.

Possibly because they're visual, and thus it's easier to match to the movies.


Possibly because they're just choosier on writers than the novels, with more feedback too. You only have 3~ writers doing comics at a time, and editors get to watch 'em issue by issue and give input as they go.

They've been very good at getting good writers.





It is harder to do much interesting swordwork in the comic medium, though, since each position has to take up a page. A long duel'd be boooring.




There's some love-and-hate. It does *great* world building in the era, and shows some side-stories of some very cool characters, like Admiral Gar Stazi. Because of this, though, it does jump around a bit rather than tell one continuous story. You'll be reading about Cade, then you'll be reading a cool boots-on-the-ground Stormtrooper story, or a flashback to Gar Stazi vs the Imperials at the start of the war, and so on. Also, Cade Skywalker is an interesting character but not really the most likable one, so there's some love-and-hate your milage may vary reactions. His story is someone who doesn't want to be a Jedi or a Skywalker at all.


As a story, the Knights of the Old Republic comic is more focused and smoother. As a general Star Wars thing, though, Legacy is still really kickass.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sorry for the short sentences. I'm running on steam. :C I stopped running on Steam ever since it made me install it just to play Empire: Total War.


In conclusion: New graphics and powers=cool!, but story suffers concomitantly.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Also "wars not make one great". From the OT, I never really gathered that the Jedi were 'soldiers' and certainly not 'warriors'--hence Luke's naive statement. Not monks either, more like peaceful samurai who had a fixation on tangible Buddhism. They 'fought' in the ambiguous Clone Wars, but only Vader and Luke really seemed to have formal military training--for obvious reasons. I never imagined them as some arm of the law or security force. Just a semi-secluded order of weirdos with some cool abilities. It was the Dark Side that offered up powers and offensive capabilities.


I se your point but, in the OT, right from the start, Ben Kenobi says "for over a thousand years the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice."

"Guardians of peace and justice" means they HAD to have had some focus on developing martial ability. Plus, they carried lightsabres for a reason, they weren't there for decoration.

Yes, I know Nephthys basically said this already but I still wanted to throw my own two pennies in.

Every penny helps.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Oh God! We're breaking this down in to point-by-points.

The CGI isn't too overpowered, but it is... what's the word... flashy. Very flashy. And not in the fun, entertaining way the games give us. I marathoned the first three seasons and boy howdy did all the action just start to suck. It was just so... flashy. In that crappy, pre-determined, kinda way.

I wuldnt say Flashy. I would just say it gets repetitive, to the point where the action becomes boring.

Not like the good old days where a Lightsaber fight was really something to look forward to.

No, it's flashy. The 4th season has scaled back a bit, but the previous three... flashy. And because it was that, it became repetitive and boring.


Originally posted by chilled monkey
I se your point but, in the OT, right from the start, Ben Kenobi says "for over a thousand years the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice."

"Guardians of peace and justice" means they HAD to have had some focus on developing martial ability. Plus, they carried lightsabres for a reason, they weren't there for decoration.

Yes, I know Nephthys basically said this already but I still wanted to throw my own two pennies in. I'm fine with them having martial prowess--hence my "peaceful samurai" example. I'm not fine with them being the typical go-to for fierce warriors and top military generals as every bit of the EU makes them out to be. Kind of like the same way a great martial arts master is highly skilled in fighting--yet he's not a fighter.

Kenobi's line was vague, but never from the OT did I imagine them to be the definition of warrior. Which they are, in everything outside of the OT. You know how King Arthur's knights were the guardians of Camelot, but if you fired an arrow in to him he'll still die like anyone else? Like that for the Jedi---highly skilled, ordinary people who take it upon themselves to do what they can for peace and justice.