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Alright seeing as a topic must have "Kain" in it to get attention, and seeing as I have already seen Kain vs. Alex, how would Kain fare against the Queen of Blades?

Alright I am not sure how to do it in this forum's style, so Ill just post various pieces. Some info pieced together through wiki, in game and what I hope are justified inferences.

Sarah Kerrigan:
Series: Starcraft
Guns: (1)

C-10 MK VI. Assault rifle

(Can not post links because I am new apparently)

Biological weapons: Her body

Wings:
For close range Sarah uses no weapon that aren't attached to her, relying instead on her own formidable natural arsenal, the most prominent of which are her skeletal "Wings" . They resemble that of a bird's but without the feathers, skin or membrane. They have been hardened over time, and are as sharp as any carbon steel sword. Each wing has three blades sprouting from it, and there are two wings which are both about as long as Kerrigan herself and connect at her lower back. In battle she is known to have use these deadly instruments to skewer and even rip opponents apart. Think six deadly spears, which could easily be used to rip apart her foes.

Following up with her wings is her talon-like claws; ten deadly six inch instruments of death. While the wings would naturally get first use she is capable of using these to render flesh from bone or rip out throats , though they are still nimble enough to be used on a computer keyboard, and shouldn't have a problem wielding a gun. Kerrigan loves to get up close and personal, and she has been observed absent-mind-idly licking her (bloody) fingers in anticipation for the coming fight.

Finally she is brilliant with martial arts,having been trained as assassin with the sole purpose of killing, and once killed a Terran officer with a kick to the neck.


Powers:

Telekinesis:
Telekinesis, or the ability to move objects with one's mind, is a power available only to the highest level psionics (8+) in Terran society. The power goes beyond throwing around simple objects though, as both Kerrigan and another ghost named Nova proved. In the final mission titled "All In" Kerrigan was actually able to lift Battle-cruisers up and implode them, while simultaneously showering marines with Psionic blasts. The ghost Nova, though two points lower on the Psionic scale then Kerrigan, was able to take down a skyscraper in a fit of rage, killing hundreds of people. Kerrigan can also use her Telekinesis to disable guns from the inside, as she did with Rumm as a child.

Psionic Bolt:
The Psionic bolt is a concentrated blast of Psionic energy directed at a single target; Kerrigan used this against Zeratul in his epic duel with him. It appears to be able to stop or slow an enemy from moving, and Zertaul couldn't teleport while in the field.

Ensnare:

For fast-moving enemies, there is no spell that works better then "ensnare" . The caster shoots forth a slimy green substance, which halves movement speed and reduces attack speed. Ensnare will also reveal any cloaked units caught in the spells effects. Utilized by Kerrigan in the first game, she is likely to have retained knowledge of this highly useful spell. Cannot kill on its own, but helps out all other powers.

Implosion:

One of Kerrigan's more powerful spells, the implosion spell Creates a localized gravity well that telekinetic-ally crushes and quickly kills the target. One of Kerrigan's most powerful spells, she can use this to crush enemy vehicles, all the way up to the enormous Battle cruiser.

The problem with this power is that it's only meant for mechanical units, and is useless against biological.

Razor Storm:

One of Kerrigan's two most powerful abilities, the Razor Storm summons forth a mass amount of energy barbs, and then unleashes them over a wide area. Flying in a crazy-eight pattern , the barbs proceed to tear apart whatever is in the area of effect. The barbs have the ability to ignore armor, so storm-trooper armor is useless against such an attack. In the campaign this power can even utterly destroy buildings.

Psionic Storm:
Kerrigan, through an immense amount of training, has taught herself the Protoss's most powerful Psionic Attack, the Psionic Storm. These storms send out psychic "ripples" that are disruptive to everything in a targeted area, frying the brains of everything that is in the storm's path. Like its partner the razor storm it ignore armor, though it does nothing to buildings nor those garrisoned in buildings.

Spawn broodlings:

This power has automatically kills whatever unit Sarah hits with the spells (with the exception of heroic units) and spawns five broodlings from the corpse. These little guys are one of the fastest units in the game, and attack two deadly claws, two pincers, and a nasty pair of canines. These little guys attack with numbers, overwhelming their foes, which they need to do fairly quickly as they die within seconds of being spawned.


Corrosive Spores:
There isn't a whole lot to say about this power. It is not a killing power instead like ensnare in that its an assistor. In the game this makes so each unit caught within the green blast takes +3 damage. In this battle it will function like water and electricity, one amplifies the other. It cannot kill on its own, but it will ensure that he/she will die quicker if caught in a Psionic/razor Storm, or if shot by her sniper rifle.

Pulse:

The Pulse ability is another nonfatal spell, though unlike the power above it actually does light damage to its target, followed by period of 3-5 seconds where they are stunned and can't move. In this battle, Sarah can utilize this ability to first immobilize someone temporarily, and then while he is vulnerable cast another, more fatal spell upon him (like Psionic Storm).

Psionic Shadow:


In my opinion the greatest of Kerrigan's new powers, the Psionic Shadow power creates up to 4 "shadow clones' of Kerrigan that are have full health but compensate with a weakened attack. This power is long-lasting, and the clones will follow her around for a couple of minutes, serving as both a doppelganger and support.

Crushing Grip:

In the newest trailers she uses a force choke-like ability to throttle a Terran prince named Valerian.

Defenses:

Zerg Carpeice and hardened skin : Light armor in the first game that could deflect bullets.

Burrow:
When enemy firepower becomes to much for the Zerg to deal with they will burrow themselves deep into the ground, escaping the hostile surface and entering into the cool dark safe zone of the depths below. In addition to providing a temporary safe-zone, Zerg regeneration kicks in a greatly increased rate. It is a superb ambush starter, and many a Terran squad has been lost a group of Zerg suddenly emerge from all sides, surrounding and trapping them.

Deep Tunnel:

When Kerrigan senses her life is in grave danger she will quickly disappear in a flash of dirt and blood, digging so deep underground that not even Terran scanners or detectors can sense her. Using her Psionics she can move quickly while this far underground and will usually head back to her base, though she could doubtless pop up elsewhere. While underground her health and wounds regenerate even more rapidly then they do above ground, and when she emerges she is just as capable as she was in the beginning of the fight.


Other Abilities:

Does not seem to tire
Very Agile
Psionic Speed: Psionic induced bursts of speed used to triple speed.

Regeneration Mastery: Can regenerate entire limbs in seconds!
Difficulty in killing: In cannon the Dominion and Raynor's raiders had to assemble an extremely powerful ancient Xel-Naga artifact (who are called "gods" ) to first deinfest her. Before then it was thought to be impossible. Interestingly enough she seems to get re-infested in the sequel.

Psionic Sight: In utilizing this power Kerrigan would be able to see through walls and around corners, potentially spoiling a well planed ambush.

Telepathy:
Broadly speaking, telepathy involves the ability to read minds, sensing emotion/general thoughts, sending psychic messages and accessing the memories of sentient creatures. Kerrigan is an incredibly powerful Telepath, able to read even the advanced Protoss minds, who in turn are able to read almost all Terran's minds. She is so good that the dark Templar Zeratul, who is immune to the mind reading attempts of other Protoss, visibly struggled to expel Kerrigan from his mind. Once in her opponent's minds she can learn of their plans, past history, and even their future whereabouts. She can also torment the unfortunate victim with gruesome visions of parts of the past that they do not care to remember.


Can cloak for a limited time.

Personality/tactics:

Brilliant tactician (has conquered the sector through manipulation and guile, including a situation where she was outnumbered and outgunned 3 to 1).

Deceptive and manipulative
Engages in Psychological warfare

Motivated by revenge
Trained as a spec ops/assassin,
Has fought and won against nearly every opponent in the sector
Superb duelist
Renowned knife fighter

Has the ability to call the Zerg swarm for aid via Psionics.


So can the legendary Vampiric Kain take on the Queen of Blades? Personally I am not so sure as Kain seems to be a match for Kratos, destroyer of the gods and Samus, the infamous bounty hunter

Is the Zerg swarm present? can she call the swarm? I am confident he can kill Kerrigan but not the whole swarm.

Logic would dictate that since she is the Queen and always surrounded by them that they would be. However since the forum rules seem to be against this, how about she only a token force of Hunter-killer Hydralisk bodyguards (like 3-4), with the rest of the Swarm showing up for a time delay (she is the swarm leader, and nothing would be able to keep them away).


However based on what I have read on wikipedia on Kain, I think she'd be able to solo it. It would be close though

Kain would beat her on her own, actually. Her best feat comes from gameplay mechanics and really isn't a feat. :/ She almost gets killed by Zeratul part way through in a cutscene because her TK isn't enough to hold him.

The Hydralisks probably kill Kain at range, though.

Solo how? Kerrigan has not taken much punishment or dished much out, concerning recent events I recall trailers for Heart of the swarm just showing her pushing about some marines.

The only impressive thing of note is gameplay at the end of SC 2, but we dont use those mechanics on KMC.

Actually in the books she beats Zeratul, Tassadar, and Raynor while outnumbered 3 on 1, and he was destroyed by her in another duel before that.

it seems to me in that scene that she really isn't worried about Zeratul at all, and she really puts up a lazy excuse for a fight that is OOC for her, both in game mechanics and in other cut-scenes (she rapes a squad of marines in camera footage)

"but we dont use those mechanics on KMC."

oh we don't? my bad then but the scenes neuter her in comparison to what I have seen in both the books and gameplay mechanics (though if she could cast a psionic storm in mechanics, would she really be unable to cast it elsewhere? I can see the ridiculous health thing not applying but abilities too?)

She can cast spells because their canon and scripted, but you cant use how quickly something dies in gameplay as a gauge for her power. Books or cutscenes only. Same for speeds of how she casts, if theres a cutscene or book documentation on it, it holds precedence.

With those book quotes, I've changed my mind. If Kerrigan really is that powerful, Kain has not a hope of winning.

Thanks for finding feats for one of the characters I enjoy, DF.

Lol no problem man! If you want to see more, check out my website on my profile page, as I do battles involving characters that I like when I got free time. I put her against Anakin Skywalker once...


And Kain does indeed sound like a badass character.

Man, that shit's weak.

Magnus the Red would wreck her ass.

I just thought I should let everyone know.

"Magnus the Red would wreck her ass."

Warhammer 40k would wreck everything since that is the most ridiculously overpowered series ever created. Seriously I think the writers just read other pieces of fiction and deliberately one upped all of them.

Though in a battle with Kerrigan all of his guns would be useless.


Also just wondering was Magnus in a video game or is he just table top?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Man, that shit's weak.

Magnus the Red would wreck her ass.

I just thought I should let everyone know. You're a sick man.


A recent appeal to the sensibilities of our generous and benevolent mods resulted in the allowance of tabletop characters.

Edit: So, tabletop.

Originally posted by deadliestfan
"Magnus the Red would wreck her ass."

Warhammer 40k would wreck everything since that is the most ridiculously overpowered series ever created. Seriously I think the writers just read other pieces of fiction and deliberately one upped all of them.

Never seen Gurren Lagaan huh? 40k isn't even among the strongest science fiction universes.



He'd only need his mind. estahuh



Tabletop is allowed here.

^^ damn, I dislike Warhammer 40k vs. discussions for the reasons I just outlined, even though I don't dislike the series.

Gurren Lagaan? No I have not heard of that, the only universe that I am positive is stronger then the 40k one is the dragonball one, but that isn't science fiction.

EDIT: Just read the part of Gurren Lagaan artificially created blackholes.....though that would kill them as well

Dragonball Z is much weaker than 40k.

A single C'tan could solo the series.

Gurren Lagaan for reference has a gigantic robot that can use galaxies as shuriken.

Actually. mmm Some beings in 40k could probably solo the DBZverse. Imho, anyway.

But DBZ isn't up there with the top most powerful fictional universes either.

Still, yeah, Magnus is hax.

And Kerrigan does win this thread. Kain doesn't have anything to rival her power. Though depending on her durability he may be able to harm her or siphon some of her blood. I don't think that'd do him much good though.

Honestly, he's fairly slow, and while certainly superhuman just can't stand up to someone who outclasses him like she does. With a mind like hers he can't manipulate her, either. His only real hope is to try and cripple her or put her down before she just flat out pops his head.

In Gurren Lagann every human has access to unlimited power, based purely on their will.

The main villian was omnipotent iirc.

Gurren Lagaan honestly strikes me as kind of stupid, but we're sort of derailing the thread, lol.

You're stupid.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Gurren Lagaan honestly strikes me as kind of stupid, but we're sort of derailing the thread, lol.

Heh, its actually surprisingly well thought out imo. Particularly with the physics and logic behind certain parts towards the end.

I wouldn't say its stupid, but it is very over the top, passionate and loud.

I've crushed that "she couldn't hold Zeratul back" argument so many times that I'm tired of looking at it. Stop it.

Anyway, yes she wins; nothing that's been presented about her here hasn't already been posted by me already, etc etc.

That aside, WH40K is always interesting. Honestly, they wouldn't even be able to beat the GE in a conventional fight unless they're on the ground,, and the GE is pretty light in the sci-fi tier list.

Not once have you done this. The first time I've seen actual proof of her being powerful at all is in this thread.

What is GE Blax?

God Emperor?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not once have you done this. The first time I've seen actual proof of her being powerful at all is in this thread. The last time we had this discussion you essentially said the equivelent of "yeah okay so she was toying with him and wasn't trying to kill him but still he shouldn't have broken out". That doesn't make sense and isn't an argument. The sheer fact that she was toying with him completly invalidates any slight on her for failing to contain him. Again, we've been over that a few times now.Originally posted by NemeBro
What is GE Blax?

God Emperor? Galactic Empire. Star Wars.

The only reason the Galactic Empire would actually win is due to being much better logistically (Due in part to much more reliable FTL travel) though.

I mean, if you count all of 40k though, the Necrons would crush the Empire so bad it's funny.

Their anti-tank weaponry now has enough energy stored inside to vaporise a planet when released at once.

Not even countng the galaxy's biggest light bright, which allows them to make any star in the galaxy supernova with a push of a button.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The only reason the Galactic Empire would actually win is due to being much better logistically (Due in part to much more reliable FTL travel) though.That's exactly why. It takes the fastest ship[s in WH40K damn near a year to travel purely from one side of a sector to another. By contrast your average ship in star wars can travel across the entire galaxy in a few days. The disparity is ridiculous.



I'm not sure how that's an auto-win button considering the GE has similar tech. Suncrusher can destroy solar systems by making suns go supernova with a single shot; death star obviously, you've got the galaxy gun which can fire a shot from one side of the galaxy to the other that moves at star wars lightspeeds (which is like 20 times the speed of light), and detonates planets, etc etc. Thing about GE tech is that they all have hyper drives though, which is kinda the deciding factor.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
That's exactly why. It takes the fastest ship

Indeed, for the sake of grimdark the Imperium's FTL capabilities have to be relatively limited.



Haha, no. Necron ships can travel to anywhere in the galaxy instantaneously.

They literally have a Tomb World that can destroy any star in the galaxy with the push of a button. You push the button, the star supernovas.

A single Doomsday Cannon, if all of its energy is released at once, vaporises the planet it happens to be on. That would be like an AT-AT blowing up and taking out the planet.

Hell, the Necrons have a handheld weapon called a Tachyon Arrow that fires a wee sliver of metal at FTL speeds that can punch through a mountain.

The difference between everything you named and what I named is partly that the Necrons mass-produce a lot of this.

Elder God Demonbane is kinda strong too (My 2 cents about the whole strong characters from strong verses stuff)

As for the fight hmmmm....I wasn't aware Sarah was actually that powerful...Kain is quite the powerhouse himself though...as for right now I'm leaning towards Sarah but hmm if Kain acts first..gah...I'll comment later on after thinking some more...

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also I dont know about you, but I am the only member on the forum who has actually played and knows the LoK games, considering I also love Starcraft and have played the games and read a collection of the books I am not, unlike many here talking out of ignorance

grrr corrected myself

Originally posted by NemeBro
Never seen Gurren Lagaan huh? 40k isn't even among the strongest science fiction universes.

I'll put that Demonbane in that league. And some Saijan shit with the greek gods, can't recall the exact name.

"that said it takes some time for them to cast a psionic storm"

It didn't seem to take that long for the High templar to summon in it either quote, honestly . And yea there is a field, but it is much bigger then in the game.

Psychic attack is quite different then Psionic Storm, and seems to be quite instantaneous (based on my interpretation Sarah Kerrigan accidentely destroying her parents, and Nova's group Psychic attack) . Having psionic strength or TK really doesn't seem to be a factor in resistance, as Kerrigan did the same thing to her Ghost trainer Rumm (it only took a while because she was deliberately messy while doing it).


Also her Telepathy is impressive enough to read and control protoss minds (see the Dark Templar 1000 year old matriarch, and Zeratul struggles to keep her out in a in-mission cut scene) . Unless I am shown some proof that Kain's mind is stronger then them, this could mean that Kerrigan knows Kain's plans before he does anything. She also has experience with teleporting enemies, to an extent (Zeratul) .

"Her bodyweight is not high, he could launch her through the air,"

Two factors to consider here:

1. Her extremely powerful regeneration
and
2. Which I fully admit may be speculation on my part. The class ten Nova was able to slowly lift herself in the air, and in the beginning of the final mission All in Kerrigan seems to be able to slow her ascent to the ground. Perhaps she could do the same here?

Also there are many other abilities, that while in game as cannon spells haven't been talked about.

Her Razor storm which looks even more lethal then the Psionic

Her Psionic Shadow ability to spawn 4 clones of herself, all capable of attacking.

A force grip like power

Spawn broodlings, which instantly kills in the game (need to see if this has a book source) .

And her ability to, in time, summon the rest of the Swarm.

Finally I know Kain can turn invisible but I believe that would be nullified by her detector ability.

Originally posted by deadliestfan
"that said it takes some time for them to cast a psionic storm"

It didn't seem to take that long for the High templar to summon in it either quote, honestly . And yea there is a field, but it is much bigger then in the game.

Psychic attack is quite different then Psionic Storm, and seems to be quite instantaneous (based on my interpretation Sarah Kerrigan accidentely destroying her parents, and Nova's group Psychic attack) . Having psionic strength or TK really doesn't seem to be a factor in resistance, as Kerrigan did the same thing to her Ghost trainer Rumm (it only took a while because she was deliberately messy while doing it).


Also her Telepathy is impressive enough to read and control protoss minds (see the Dark Templar 1000 year old matriarch, and Zeratul struggles to keep her out in a in-mission cut scene) . Unless I am shown some proof that Kain's mind is stronger then them, this could mean that Kerrigan knows Kain's plans before he does anything. She also has experience with teleporting enemies, to an extent (Zeratul) .

"Her bodyweight is not high, he could launch her through the air,"

Two factors to consider here:

1. Her extremely powerful regeneration
and
2. Which I fully admit may be speculation on my part. The class ten Nova was able to slowly lift herself in the air, and in the beginning of the final mission All in Kerrigan seems to be able to slow her ascent to the ground. Perhaps she could do the same here?

Also there are many other abilities, that while in game as cannon spells haven't been talked about.

Her Razor storm which looks even more lethal then the Psionic

Her Psionic Shadow ability to spawn 4 clones of herself, all capable of attacking.

A force grip like power

Spawn broodlings, which instantly kills in the game (need to see if this has a book source) .

And her ability to, in time, summon the rest of the Swarm.

Finally I know Kain can turn invisible but I believe that would be nullified by her detector ability.

They sort of climb to the peak, hold out their arms and concentrate, its not something they can call on a whim in a split second, Templar cant toss out psionic storms like machineguns can they, it takes a lot of power to do. Point I was making is, said storm would be useless against a teleporter who could be on top of her in an instant, unless she uses the storm on herself.

Rashagal or w/e her name was, may have been corrupted by kerrigan but Marcus, who could command large groups of warrior priests could barely read the weakest of Kains mind (young kain), this is Elder Kain so at best, she may know his plans but thats not the same as precognition, things will be going faster than she can read them. Zeratul didnt actually try and kill her with teleportation though, Kain will and Kains is a bit quicker and less obvious than Zeratals which is like black smoke.

Its still a power that could halt the use of her more powerful abilities and ensure Kain has distance between them if he wants distance. Shes going to have a hard job targeting him if she is thrown, even if she cna stop herself.

Kain has time ****ery, he can slow down time to a crawl, or follow up with incapcitate which freezes people in time completly. Kerrigan has never dealt with such powers, same with soul devouring.

Infact, I would argue Kain cannot necesserily turn invisible, logically possible but his mist form is more of a disguise.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Indeed, for the sake of grimdark the Imperium's FTL capabilities have to be relatively limited.Shut your ****ing mouth, you hobo.



What's the source for this, can I get a page number? Obviously that ability must be limited, otherwise a "single" necron ship making it to Mars wouldn't be unprecedented.

How is this a threat to the Imperial fleet? I wasn't aware they hang out next to stars. That aside, this tombworld wouldn't even get the chance to do anything. Is it is a world is it not, meaning it can't move? Funny; the Imperial navy has multiple doomsday devices that can destroy a planet with a push of a button, one of which can hit any planet anywhere in the galaxy at any time, and is also mobile and capable of FtL travel, unlike this tomb world.

Source for this?

And, again, the Imperial navy has no shortage of planet busting technology itself.

A single salvo from a star destroyer will vaporize multiple colonies.

And their inability to keep up with the GE's mobility is what would make all that irrelevant.

Too late to edit, but, for the record you exaggerated that quote about the tachyon arrow. It says that it's capable of piercing a mountain. That doesn't mean that it can in one side of the mountain and come out the other.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
What's the source for this, can I get a page number? Obviously that ability must be limited, otherwise a "single" necron ship making it to Mars wouldn't be unprecedented.

Four Necron ships made it to Mars, only one was able to land. They had to kind of, you know, slow down before making planet-fall.

Iori Delta Tove, a planet-sized space station that could do such neat shit as rewrite history (People's memories would spontaneously change, ancient documents would be rewritten, entire planets would shift and alter their orbits, etc), was able to instantly phase to different sections of space instantaneously, it should be noticed all this was done while it was not active.

And now of course the Necrons can use Dolmen Gates, hacked portals into the Webway, that by definition allows instant travel.



Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. The Necrons could destroy any solar system in the galaxy, including ones with important logistics command bases, and whatnot.

Oh and I suppose that the GE now all of the sudden know which Tomb World, out of millions in the galaxy, has this weaponry? O:

Also, nice dodging the point. Namely that the limits of Necron technology go far beyond that of the GE's.



In the new Necron codex, a Necron Overlord gives an Ork Warboss some Doomsday Cannons in exchange for not bothering him (His Tomb World wasn't awake yet). Cue the Ork Warboss three months later trying to work it, cracking a containment core, and vaporising the planet. This is what one of their basic anti-tank weapons can do on accident.



Cyclonic Missiles are pretty cool I guess.



Why are you comparing a large starship's firepower with what amounts to a pistol? A really awesome pistol mind you, but a pistol nontheless. A single salvo from a starship of the Imperium of Man can annihilate continents. Hell, a single Deathstrike Missile can destabilise the tectonic activity of a planet with the explosion that can cause crippling Earthquakes over the planet. The World Engine was a super awesome Necron Tomb World that could vaporise all life on a planet with a single firing (And fly, mind you), and was impervious to the efforts of an entire sector's fleet plus an assembled mixed-chapter battlefleet of Spehss Mehreens.



Haha, no... The Necrons, along with arguably the Eldar, are the only faction in 40k that has FTL travel on par with or superior to the GE.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The only impressive thing of note is gameplay at the end of SC 2, but we dont use those mechanics on KMC. I have seen you apply gameplay countless times.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Four Necron ships made it to Mars, only one was able to land. They had to kind of, you know, slow down before making planet-fall.I'm pretty they actually just got blasted out of the sky due to the Imperium's anti-air being awesome.

That's nice. The Empire's good at killing planet sized objects.

Don't feed me that bullshit, you republican.

To quote the Eldar codex:

"The arterial passages are large enough to carry starships, though most tunnels only allow strikeforces of Eldar on foot or small vehicles to pass. Eldar spacecraft can travel through the warp itself, although this is a slow and dangerous process for them. As a result the Eldar travel infrequently to places that lie more than a few light-years from their webway portals. Webway journeys are relatively fast, enabling space fleets to move easily between the network's major gateways. This enables the Eldar to move swiftly to places directly connected by the labyrinth dimension, but makes it extremely difficult for them to reach worlds that have no gate into the network."
- Eldar 4E Codex, page 13

Emphasis mine.

So wait, what's that? Apparently only major roads in the webway can transport ships through them, meaning the majority of the webway is useless for FTL fleet travel?

Wait, what? Webway travel is relatively fast? I thought webway travel was instantaneous! D: You can't go faster than instantaneous, so how can webway travel be only relatively fast, since "relative" implies it could be faster?

So in conclusion: The idea that one can use the webway to "travel to anywhere in the galaxy instantaneously" is bullshit. The Necrons ability to travel through the galaxy is just like the Eldars: extremely limited. Star Wars hyperspace travel wipes the floor with all conventional traveling tech in the WH40K universe, sans whatever obscure super weapons that can teleport like the one you listed earlier. But even that's matched by things like the Emperor's ability to teleport people and objects from one side of the galaxy to the other using his force storms. Oh, and he can also attack other planets using his force storms... from across the galaxy. This is the same warpstorm that tears chunks out of a planets landscape that are visible from space and rip apart time/space with their intensity.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/splash.gif







Try to keep up, son. This is academic.




All that technology won't keep it from getting its ass kicked, hence the point is irrelevant and not worth addressing.




The doomsday canon is "one of the Necron's most powerful" weapons, for one, and for another, the energy created from a Star Destroyer's reactor is the equivalent of a sun exploding. Yaaaaawn.


Buuut inferior.





Because a pistol is going to be useless in a space battle. And a single shot from the death star can annihilate a planet. A single shot from the sun crusher can annihilate a solar system. Palpatine can suck the life force out of an entire planets population and can toss warp storms across the galaxy that visibly scar planets. The center point station can fire a tractor beam that destroys planets and is also capable of transporting them across the galaxy. It can also create gravity wells that slows down everything in its range to a complete stop, even a planets orbit and ships moving hundreds of times faster than light. What's the size of this gravity well that it can create? The size of a galaxy. You've got the galaxy gun which moves hundreds of times faster than light and also fires bullets that move hundreds of times faster than light, and rip apart planets.

We can sit here and dick measure with feats all day, but you're missing the point. The destructive capabilities become academic once you reach the ability to wipe out a planet. You may have a slingshot that can destroy half the galaxy, but how is that going to save you if the planet you're on suddenly explodes? How is that slingshot that can destroy half a galaxy going to help you if the slingshot's shot only moves at 30 miles an hour and your enemy is an F-16 moving at mach 2? Hell, a stick of dynamite can destroy a fighter jet, but good luck hitting a fighter jet that's flying through the air by throwing a stick at it.

Which is the point that you're missing. In inter-stellar warfare, the only thing that matters is range and mobilty. Woah, good shit the Necrons can make a sun explode. That's cool, except it would take an exploding sun 8 minutes for the energy to reach Earth, and that's assuming that the explosion is moving at the speed of light, which realistically it wouldn't be, it'd be moving slower. So unless the GE fleet was standing literally right next to the sun, they'd have at least several minutes to react to an exploding sun. It takes 30 seconds to make a hyperspace jump. Exploding sun ability? Nullified.

Comparatively, the GE's closest similar ability has a range of "the general galaxy", but unlike the tombworld's attack, the explosion is instantaneous; it can't be dodged or outrun, and even if it could, tombworlds can't move. So how do you defend against that? You can't. Having a pistol that can kinda sorta pierce a mountain and a mass produced bean bag that can destroy twenty solar systems by tossing it are completely useless against an enemy that can effortlessly outmaneuver you and outrange you.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I have seen you apply gameplay countless times.

I dont use mechanics.

What are mechanics?

This thread's turning into a warzone; I love it. Call him a ****, Q'Anillia.

No no, but I am genuine. If Burning Thought does not use mechanics, I must understand the term wrong.

He's seriously a **** as well, don't feel bad hun. If the boot fits and all that.

What word are you saying Blax?

sl*t.

I dunno why it's censored. This site's censor system is incredibly retarded.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont use mechanics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF1S2bo6cSg#t=1m6s

?

Since when is an ability a mechanic?

Again, please define mechanics.

What is going on here guise?

This thread gets derailed fast...

anyway...

"Point I was making is, said storm would be useless against a teleporter who could be on top of her in an instant"

I won't go all the way and say useless; if Kerrigan was able to accurately predict (i.e. read) where Kain was heading and react fast enough, then even a mere moment in the storm would be harmful to him. Still you are right in that it will be difficult to kill him with.
"unless she uses the storm on herself. "

I do wonder if she could do that without harming herself....have to read more into psionic storms to find out, but if she did he'd have a very tough time getting close, enabling her to just sit back and fire at him with her C-10.

You raise a point with telepathy, but ignore the Psychic attack one. Having the defense to resist a form of mind takeover or espionage (control and telepathy) is very different from resisting a full on mental attack, which just seeks to destroy and is less "delicate" then the other two.

Could he teleport when under fire, or in a force-like grip?


"Kain has time ****ery, he can slow down time to a crawl, or follow up with incapcitate which freezes people in time completly."

Would potentially know about them at least, from telepathy while Kain would be ignorant of her psionic abilities (including attack).

Originally posted by deadliestfan
This thread gets derailed fast...

anyway...

"Point I was making is, said storm would be useless against a teleporter who could be on top of her in an instant"

I won't go all the way and say useless; if Kerrigan was able to accurately predict (i.e. read) where Kain was heading and react fast enough, then even a mere moment in the storm would be harmful to him. Still you are right in that it will be difficult to kill him with.
"unless she uses the storm on herself. "

I do wonder if she could do that without harming herself....have to read more into psionic storms to find out, but if she did he'd have a very tough time getting close, enabling her to just sit back and fire at him with her C-10.

You raise a point with telepathy, but ignore the Psychic attack one. Having the defense to resist a form of mind takeover or espionage (control and telepathy) is very different from resisting a full on mental attack, which just seeks to destroy and is less "delicate" then the other two.

Could he teleport when under fire, or in a force-like grip?


"Kain has time ****ery, he can slow down time to a crawl, or follow up with incapcitate which freezes people in time completly."

Would potentially know about them at least, from telepathy while Kain would be ignorant of her psionic abilities (including attack).

Well he wouldnt need to get close, using TK he could bring her to him although the psioninc storm has less power than required to damage Kain so I can imagine him just teleporting in it for a fraction of a second, slicing her in half and then coming out of it. Psionic storms tear apart regular soldiers and tanks and things but the starships were swatted about and the battlecruisers were already damaged from earlier fights, they had to retreat from the orbital battle because things got too hot in space.

Psychic attack is less powerful than a psionic storm though. What is the strongest thing shes damaged with it? I cant recall many canon instances.

I dont see those things being a problem for any teleporter, a force like grip creates a field of kinetic force around the object its holding, teleport transports that matter somewhere else so it would be outisde the force.

Even if she knows about it ,she cant stop it and once shes under the effects of time powers, she wont be able to fight at all, she will be slowed to a crawl. And Kain has mind powers too, he may aslo know what she is up to, he can even read the past and current events by drinking some blood.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Again, please define mechanics.

Rule 14 of the forum kinda does it. Health bars, energy bars, magic meters etc.

So that Sarah Kerrigan can take a Yamato Cannon to the face is not a mechanic, but rather a feat?

Shes never done so canonically, the fact she has X ability and it works X way is canon but the damage it does as per gameplay is irrelevent . Also, I think your trying to mock this system, not understand it and I dont really care enough about your interpretation to go through it with you.

No, I am trying to understand where you stand on it, since I have seen you refer to situations in gameplay for feats. I am not mocking any system, just because I question various interpretations of it. I understand why you should not use gameplay mechanics for debating, but I also understand that what is considered "mechanic" varies from debater to debater.

In your case, it is very iffy. Debating should be done on equal terms, not with different understanding of a certain term.

Well I dont belive you, and as I said, its not much fo a concern to me.

It is not much of a concern for you to debate on equal terms?

The debates are not constructive enough here, and if I bothered stateing the terms, people would still do things their own way. Hence, waste of time.