Team Superman Vs Team Marvel

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Prep-Man
Superman
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/75941-160900-superman_large.jpg
Mr. Majestic
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/80487-72729-mr-majestic_large.jpg
Captain Marvel
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/2532/159585-42413-captain-marvel_large.jpg
Cyborg Superman
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1760656-running002_large.jpg
Icon
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/101137/2033251-augustus_freeman__dakotaverse__024_large.jpg
Apollo
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/10837/1852632-stormwatch_large.jpg
Ultraman
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/31566/839137-ultraman_5_large.jpg

vs

Prep-Man
Beta Ray Bill
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/76844-134741-beta-ray-bill_large.jpg
Gladiator
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/25705/642620-sc005131ad_large.jpg
Nova Prime
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/86167-189654-nova_large.jpg
Quasar
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1716063-quasar_large.jpg
Black Bolt
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38780/807549-black_bolt_3_large.jpg
Sentry
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/101644/2029221-sentry_tribute_by_jamga_d2xr8co_large.jpg
Ronan
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/96017/1685971-ronan_the_accuser_large.jpg

-Pr-
Void Sentry or standard?

Prep-Man
Standard.

JakeTheBank
DC is stacked.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
DC is stacked.

Enzeru
I would actually give it to Marvel, since they have a lot energy / radiation manipulators, so they could drain few of the enemies and render them helpless in the process.

Sentry for example could drain the solar energy out of Superman and even become stronger through that.
Additionally there are Beta Ray Bill with his hammer, Ronan and Quasar who can drain energy.
I feel like they all also have the greater versatility which would come in hand, but in the end it would still be a damn tough fight, since the DC team has a huge advantage in strenght and speed, since characters like Black Bolt and Ronan are actually not really strong and fast.

Especially Mr. Majestic could be a little bit too much for the Marvel team since he has some ridiculous speed (creating gadgets to win battles in nano-seconds...)

DarkSaint85
I give it to DC, mainly due to Majestic and Hank....

Imagine Hank taking over Worldmind!!!

abhilegend
Originally posted by Enzeru
I would actually give it to Marvel, since they have a lot energy / radiation manipulators, so they could drain few of the enemies and render them helpless in the process.

Sentry for example could drain the solar energy out of Superman and even become stronger through that.
Additionally there are Beta Ray Bill with his hammer, Ronan and Quasar who can drain energy.
I feel like they all also have the greater versatility which would come in hand, but in the end it would still be a damn tough fight, since the DC team has a huge advantage in strenght and speed, since characters like Black Bolt and Ronan are actually not really strong and fast.

Especially Mr. Majestic could be a little bit too much for the Marvel team since he has some ridiculous speed (creating gadgets to win battles in nano-seconds...)
What makes you think sentry can absorb superman's energy? I can ask you what is stopping superman from absorbing sentry's energy instead (he has actually done it against Rampage, a solar charged being)? Superman hyper-metabolizes his solar energy, it's not leaking through like sentry.

Enzeru
Originally posted by abhilegend
What makes you think sentry can absorb superman's energy? I can ask you what is stopping superman from absorbing sentry's energy instead (he has actually done it against Rampage, a solar charged being)? Superman hyper-metabolizes his solar energy, it's not leaking through like sentry.

The fact that Sentry can draw energy from everywhere and I guess that would also include Superman's body.
There were instances where Superman was drained, so I don't see why the Sentry couldn't be able to do it too, even though the fight would be rather strange in the beginning, since I see Sentry not bothering about something like that in the beginning and releasing his energy which would sun-dip Superman and make him stronger, but once that is realized, he would lose all the radiation.
If Sentry can absorb the the energy of a Cosmic Cube and contain it for a while, then he alone should be able to absorb also Supermans solar radiation.
Additionally to that there are also Ronan, Quasar and BR Bill.

And the DC team has few characters who depend on solar energy, life force energy and so on, basically energies which can be manipulated and drained. Apollo would basically be useless after the first few seconds of the fight. Superman would follow shortly after.

Prep-Man
Most of the Supermen don't need that. Cap is magical based, won't work on Majestic, Ultraman, or Cyborg Supes.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Enzeru
The fact that Sentry can draw energy from everywhere and I guess that would also include Superman's body.
There were instances where Superman was drained, so I don't see why the Sentry couldn't be able to do it too, even though the fight would be rather strange in the beginning, since I see Sentry not bothering about something like that in the beginning and releasing his energy which would sun-dip Superman and make him stronger, but once that is realized, he would lose all the radiation.
If Sentry can absorb the the energy of a Cosmic Cube and contain it for a while, then he alone should be able to absorb also Supermans solar radiation.
Additionally to that there are also Ronan, Quasar and BR Bill.

And the DC team has few characters who depend on solar energy, life force energy and so on, basically energies which can be manipulated and drained. Apollo would basically be useless after the first few seconds of the fight. Superman would follow shortly after.

Where is that instance of sentry drawing energy from everywhere because I think that was just a hyperbole. Who has absorbed superman's energy besides Triumph who was powered by 5-d imps.
Again whose energy has sentry absorbed while in battle or anywhere because even the classic eradicator who turned entire sun red was astonished how much power and resistance superman's nearly drained and dying body possesses when he tried to draw energy from it. Where did Sentry absorbed cosmic cube's energy? IIRC it was just him holding the cube in his hands and do you think sentry can stand against a sundipped superman even for a few seconds? Only superman and apollo uses solar energy here.

Enzeru
Originally posted by abhilegend
Where is that instance of sentry drawing energy from everywhere because I think that was just a hyperbole.
In his fight with Photon he was drawing energy from everywhere and he and Photon were destroying worlds while holding back. They were in a microverse, so they were able to show off a little bit =P

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who has absorbed superman's energy besides Triumph who was powered by 5-d imps.

Ruin, Blackstar, Dr. Polaris and probably other instances. For example where Superman was hit by a shrinking ray. He was in a microverse and Batman had to save him, since Superman was slowly dying without the Sun to amp him, so yeah. Superman needs solar radiation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Where did Sentry absorbed cosmic cube's energy? IIRC it was just him holding the cube in his hands

Holding it in his hands? He was not lifting the Cosmic Cube, he was containing it. Therefore we can assume that the Cosmic Cube was escaping and Sentry was holding it together, basically absorbing it's power to stabilize it.

Would that be that unbelievable?
Voidsentry easily defeated the Molecule Man, who was retconned to be a half of a Cosmic Cube.

While many people tend to scream "PIS PIS PIS", it was still very well explained and said that Molecule Man never had to deal with Sentry's molecules and that he was inexperienced with something like them.
He simply got overpowered later on and once the people realize that, they tend to scream: "MOLECULE MAN RETCON, MOLECULE MAN RETCON!", but the fact is still that there was no further retcon of the Molecule Man character after the first one and that the retconned Molecule Man was still shattering galaxies and different timelines in his fight with the Beyonder.

The only thing about him during the Dark Avengers was his mental state, since he was basically nuts and desperate, creating illusions of beings like Dormammu and Mephisto, since he was searching for friends. That's what he also said to the Sentry before he ripped him apart.
Molecule Man had his powerlevel but he was still not going full out on anything besides the Sentry, which he hit with a direct beam. Later on he got overpowered by Voidsentry and it was over.

Originally posted by abhilegend
and do you think sentry can stand against a sundipped superman even for a few seconds? Only superman and apollo uses solar energy here.
I think that a stable Sentry (as portrayed in his first mini) as the potential to bring Superman down, since he has simply a greater variety of powers and ways to take Superman down.

+ Intangibility and invisibility (both probably on a pretty good scale, since he phased through bullets while holding up a car and even with super senses there doesn't seem to be a way to sense him, if he goes invisible)
+ Energy / radiation absorbtion (enough to contain cosmic cubes)
+ Powerful telepathy (enough to affect Savage Hulk who is practically invulnerable to telepathy because of his brute nature and the mind-erasing of over 6 billion peoples and even animals)

... And if the Void appears, it's all over with Superman anyway since all the Void would have to do would be to mind-rape Superman and drain his life force. If the Parasite can do it, then the Void will be able to do it too and I honestly don't think that there is ANYTHING Superman would be able to do to the Void.

-Pr-
1. How would Sentry know to drain him?
2. And what's to stop Superman from simply being recharged from the Sun?

Also, Polaris was draining him and still couldn't beat him.

And Superman has arguably the most impressive TP resistance of any herald in DC.

SquallX
I was hit with nostalgia when i saw the pic of icon.

Enzeru
Originally posted by -Pr-
1. How would Sentry know to drain him?
2. And what's to stop Superman from simply being recharged from the Sun?
Also, Polaris was draining him and still couldn't beat him.

3. And Superman has arguably the most impressive TP resistance of any herald in DC.

1. Sentry is not the only one in the team. If you're talking about 1v1's then yeah, it would probably take a while to realize that, but at the same time it should be obvious to feel that Superman is getting stronger and stronger thanks to Sentry's solar energy output.

In the team fight, I'm quite sure that the others who have better energy manipulation feats would realize that it would be a way to go to take Superman out and it would be basically the best way to do it, since they would take 1-2 opponents out without harming them, so yeah it would be totally in character.

And it's also not Polaris VS Superman, but Sentry VS Superman or in this special case many energy manipulators VS Superman.
Of course Superman has also his teammates and that's what would make the fight interesting in the long run.

2. Nothing. He can fly up into the orbit and spend some high quality time in front of the sun, but it would take a while while the fight would go on and on on the ground.
What's stopping the Sentry from draining Supermans solar energy again and getting stronger in the process?
Since that's what the Super Soldier Serum did to the Sentry. It gave him a photosynthetic reaction: He absorbs solar radiation passivly and gets stronger.

3. I don't doubt that, but it's still debatable if he could resist Sentry's telepathy / empathy. I would actually not go into the telepathy / empathy way to declare Sentry's victory, since his telepathic powers are very inexperienced, but he was still able to use his telepathy in a offensive way and affected the Hulk who is immune to it.

He erased Professor X's, Emma Frosts and many other peoples (like Dr. Doom) memories more then once, Emma needed a permission to enter his mind where she built a White Room and later on she still needed the help of Professor X to even enter the White Room. There she was attacked by the Void and had to stay in her crystal form for a while to avoid a complete takeover.
So Sentry seems to have the dangerous telepathy-level to affect characters even with a high resistance to telepathy, or who are simply powerful telepaths and should be able to prevent him from doing so, yet they failed.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Enzeru
1. Sentry is not the only one in the team. If you're talking about 1v1's then yeah, it would probably take a while to realize that, but at the same time it should be obvious to feel that Superman is getting stronger and stronger thanks to Sentry's solar energy output.

In the team fight, I'm quite sure that the others who have better energy manipulation feats would realize that it would be a way to go to take Superman out and it would be basically the best way to do it, since they would take 1-2 opponents out without harming them, so yeah it would be totally in character.

And it's also not Polaris VS Superman, but Sentry VS Superman or in this special case many energy manipulators VS Superman.
Of course Superman has also his teammates and that's what would make the fight interesting in the long run.

2. Nothing. He can fly up into the orbit and spend some high quality time in front of the sun, but it would take a while while the fight would go on and on on the ground.
What's stopping the Sentry from draining Supermans solar energy again and getting stronger in the process?
Since that's what the Super Soldier Serum did to the Sentry. It gave him a photosynthetic reaction: He absorbs solar radiation passivly and gets stronger.

3. I don't doubt that, but it's still debatable if he could resist Sentry's telepathy / empathy. I would actually not go into the telepathy / empathy way to declare Sentry's victory, since his telepathic powers are very inexperienced, but he was still able to use his telepathy in a offensive way and affected the Hulk who is immune to it.

He erased Professor X's, Emma Frosts and many other peoples (like Dr. Doom) memories more then once, Emma needed a permission to enter his mind where she built a White Room and later on she still needed the help of Professor X to even enter the White Room. There she was attacked by the Void and had to stay in her crystal form for a while to avoid a complete takeover.
So Sentry seems to have the dangerous telepathy-level to affect characters even with a high resistance to telepathy, or who are simply powerful telepaths and should be able to prevent him from doing so, yet they failed.

1. So would Sentry not be a liability, then?
2. Superman doesn't need to be in orbit, though. If the sun is shining, he's charging.
3. That would be fine and dandy, if we were only taking the mini in to account stick out tongue

Also, I seriously think Marvel are at a disadvantage due to Henshaw taking over Bill and turning him against his team-mates.

Starscream M
Originally posted by -Pr-


Also, I seriously think Marvel are at a disadvantage due to Henshaw taking over Bill and turning him against his team-mates. wouldn't bill's asgardian enchantment protect him from henshaw taking over?

Enzeru
Originally posted by -Pr-
1. So would Sentry not be a liability, then?
2. Superman doesn't need to be in orbit, though. If the sun is shining, he's charging.
3. That would be fine and dandy, if we were only taking the mini in to account stick out tongue

Also, I seriously think Marvel are at a disadvantage due to Henshaw taking over Bill and turning him against his team-mates.

1. I think it depends. It would be the writers decision. Both scenarios would make sense. Either Sentry passivly amping Superman with the solar energy output, or Sentry realizing it in the beginning and using energy-drain to depower him.

I also don't think it's actually something the Sentry has to do specificly, but more something like that he can do while doing other things. For example he did not have to stand next to the person he healed and point with his finger in the right direction. He went away and the person healed, so I assume that he could maybe heal his teammates in the process.

2. Yeah, you're right about that, but I think that he can be drained quicker, then he can absorb solar radiation to gain his strenght back and that's the way for Team Marvel to depower him without hurting him, since it would not be in their character to basically kill off an opponent.

3. I think even the showings besides his first mini portray him as a very powerful being.
Of course he was over the top in his first mini and still very powerful in his second one, but his powerlevel varies with his mental stability.
If he is unstable, then he is also a lot weaker, but he is still damn powerful.

For example:

- When he fought WW Hulk he was very unstable and therefore very weak, but he still had the upper hand in the fight and stopped Hulk in the end and that's actually pretty neat, if you think about some of WW Hulks feats. Of course there was a lot of PIS during the entire arc, but it's still hard to deny that it was a very powerful version of the Hulk.

- He also fought the Collective who killed Alpha Flight and easily overpowered Binary, who is a planet buster, yet an unstable Sentry came along and stalemated the Collective long enough until they found a way to defeat him.

From there it can only get better.
Moments where the Sentry got outplayed like for example where he got overloaded by Hammond (Human Torch) ... That was just weird - a plot device just to remove him as fast as possible from the battlefield, since there is no point in him soloing simply everyone on the field. His powerlevel would allow him to do so.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Enzeru
In his fight with Photon he was drawing energy from everywhere and he and Photon were destroying worlds while holding back. They were in a microverse, so they were able to show off a little bit =P

You mean this
http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/9848/newthunderbolts014page149sd.jpg

So this means this is also true
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7604/1078777-jlaspectresoulwarwwliftspectre_super.jpg

Superman and wonder woman are two mightiest beings in the universe. It was just a hyperbole because sentry has never drawn energy from everywhere. Beta ray bill was destroying planets after planets in his fight against Stardust which was actually shown on panel not like "enough energy to shred worlds" while Captain america watches all of this. So does that means bill is stronger than Thor or any other high herald due to this. No when he has other showings to prove he is still a peer of them.





So, Ruin used red sun radiation to siphon off superman's yellow sun reserves which he automatically expelled instantly and I missed the part where Sentry was one of the closest friends of superman who studied his physiology for years and knew about his body more than him.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/10-01.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/17-01.jpg

Blackstarr only made superman's brain signals move slower, where did she siphon off his energy.
Polaris didn't drain his energy, he made all electro magnetic radiation bend around him so he was nearly blind.
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/936/actioncomics828page04.jpg.

What other instances, I am unaware of any other.



He was not absorbing any power from it, that's for sure however he was holding it. There was no indication of it in the narration and it's purely speculation that he was drawing power from it.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/sentryff08.jpg



We are not talking about voidsentry here.




All of that you listed are wash against superman. Superman has also used intangibility against doomsday's lightning/fire attack and Mongul's energy attack. He used invisibility against white martians who were unable to sense him. Who were these metas sentry used his invisibility? Superman has resisted Hector hammond who was controlling every superhero on earth and Despero who made martian manhunter and Aquaman his bitches simultaneously.

Sentry neither has strength feats nor speed feats to compete against superman. I would give Kal 7/10 against him.



Again we are not talking about Void here.

Enzeru
Originally posted by abhilegend
He was not absorbing any power from it, that's for sure however he was holding it. There was no indication of it in the narration and it's purely speculation that he was drawing power from it.

That's not making sense, since simply holding the Cosmic Cube is not a huge task. Red Skull was holding it, Dr. Doom was holding it.
Are these two characters physically stronger then Sentry? I don't think so.

It should be assumed that the eneries are escaping, since the narration tells you that he is containing the Cosmic Cube and he himself says that he can't stabilize it much longer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who were these metas sentry used his invisibility?

That's the reason why it's often hard to debate for the Sentry, since

1. as an Earth-bound Marvel hero it's hard to him to showcase his powerlevel, since the Marvel Earth does not have as many powerhouses as DC has (and now we're not talking about the Mutants, since they are very often simply too fragile, even if they have a high powerlevel)
2. he has shown many abilities only once or twice, so you could easily say that he doesn't even have abilities like matter manipulation, teleportation, intangibility, invisibility, telepathy, healing, resurrection, force fields and what do I know what else.

The same applies for the invisibility. I'm afraid I still can't post pictures on this forum because of the protection, so I will have to explain it:
During "Civil War - The Return" he was searching for Creel. CLOC said that Creel was probably using SentrySs own ability to avoid being detected by manipulating the light and the solar radiation emission and Sentry was not able to sense him, even though he has supersenses (hi @ Butterfly's sneeze in Africa) and even can sense people by their aura.

In the same comic Creel absorbed Sentry's power and was impressed by it, stated that he never felt power like that before (and he already absorbed many things) and in the end he got matter manipulated into oblivion by the Sentry.

Well of course Superman has now the awesome telepathy resistance, and the draining resistance and the molecule manipulation resistance and every other resistance you could actually think off to stay the TOP DOG BOY in the DC Universe, yet he can still be drained by his enemies and affected on other ways and Sentry has the variety and the powerlevel to do so.
Draining his energy to weaken him and then using empathy or matter manipulation. It could pull off the trick.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has resisted Hector hammond who was controlling every superhero on earth and Despero who made martian manhunter and Aquaman his bitches simultaneously.

Of course he did. He is Superman, he can resist everything.
And yet you will came across many "Superman VS Martian Manhunter" threads where Superman is the chanceless one, because Martian Manhunter has the advantage because of his telepathy.

And didn't Maxwell Lord control Superman?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sentry neither has strength feats nor speed feats to compete against superman. I would give Kal 7/10 against him.

This is basically the same thing as above.
It's hard to argue for the Sentry because of the way he was often written.

If stable he had the potential for limitless strenght speed. In his early days he was the only one who could compete with the Void who was breaking heroes like toys.

Later on he got mentally unstable and it was over with his awesome strenght and speed.
If he was stressed, then he flew from Earth to Saturn during one scream, but because that was never narrated: "AND IN A GOLDEN STREAK OUR DESTRESSED GOLDEN GUARDIAN OF GOOD FLIES FROM EARTH TO SATURN DURING JUST ONE SCREAM!", no one takes that feat seriously, yet he is faster then light, probably a lot faster then light with even the ability to take off with the speed of light like shown during the Dark Avengers fight with the Uncanny X-Men.

Messuring his strenght would be full of ABC logic, since Void >>> Thor and Hulk in terms of strenght and "stable Sentry" > Void as shown during their fights.

The problem is that Sentry was mentally unstable later on and therefore not that powerful. He gained his powerlevel back when the Void took over, but that's not how we should judge characters in cross-over fights. What's the point from taking the weakest version of a character and letting it fight against others? If, then we use the characters at their peak.

And that does not mean that we make SA Superman out of a regular Superman, but that we don't take one of Sentry's weak out-of-character versions where he got fooled by Hercules, even though Sentry would have been able to easily stomp Hercules, mainly because of the speed difference.

abhilegend
Oh yeah I forgot Superman/Batman is non canon from issue 49 to 66 or 67 so nano universe incident is also in-admissable. You also forgot to mention he had already experienced months because time flowed much faster in nanopolis.

Cogito
Hank hacks the shit out of team Marvel.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
DC is stacked.

Juntai
Originally posted by Enzeru

And didn't Maxwell Lord control Superman?
He didn't directly assault Superman's mind to do that. He slowly broke down the barriers of Superman's mind over time while pretending to be a friend. According to the comics, he started in the early 90s, and didn't seize control until 2005. Do you believe they have that kind of time in this battle?

Enzeru
Originally posted by Juntai
He didn't directly assault Superman's mind to do that. He slowly broke down the barriers of Superman's mind over time while pretending to be a friend. According to the comics, he started in the early 90s, and didn't seize control until 2005. Do you believe they have that kind of time in this battle?

Good for Superman, but I think that does not matter right now for two reasons (of course I was the one who said that Sentry could affect Superman with his telepathy):

- Sentry does not seem to be limited to telepathy. He can tap into empathy-powers and empathy works differently then telepathy, since he was able to overpower the Hulk who is immune to telepathy because of his brute nature and ... but now I'm only assuming: I say he could also affect the Flash, even though the Flash can accelerate his thoughts to avoid telepathy - empathy is still a different level and once it hits you and confronts you with miserable stuff from your life, you're affected and every comic book character has bad experiences which can be used to overpower him. The Void's empathy was even so strong that he confronted Spider-Man with bad moments from his future and that is actually huge.

- But besides that no one ever said that Marvel would mind-control the crap out of the DC team. Sentry can't mind-control. He never could and if he ever returns back, I will be glad if he stays unable to mindcontrols others, since that would speak against a very interesting theory of mine how Sentry's background could be explained well.

The main advantage the Marvel team has is indeed the energy manipulation. They have a lot of energy manipulators and they could be able to use that to gain the upper hand, if they take out few of the enemies.
That's like the only way, since the Marvel team has way too many physically weak characters who would be taken out by Superman level characters out rather easily if they go fully out and I expect someone like Mr. Majestic to go fully out and physically he should be the most powerful character in the entire battle and that could be game-breaking if he randomly attacks someone like Black Bolt, who would only have his voice to defend himself, but he would lack the speed to utilize it, if Mr. Majestic decides to speed blitz him. Black Bolt does not have the durability to last long.
The same goes for Ronan, who is basically only a 20 tonner or something without his gear and if he does not have his uber-hammer, then he is probably the weakest link in this one.

DarkSaint85
Problem is, the energy manipulators need time. The only manipulators with enhanced reactions are Bill and Sentry, Quasar would be speedblitzed.

Team Superman win, rather easily.

Enzeru
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Problem is, the energy manipulators need time. The only manipulators with enhanced reactions are Bill and Sentry, Quasar would be speedblitzed.

Team Superman win, rather easily.

They need time indeed, but they also have force fields.
I see especially Quasar's force field coming in handy, since he already blocked attacks from Galactus if I remember correctly, so his shields should prevent them from taking all too much damage.

Prep-Man
Who would be the one to take on Quasar? Majestic and Icon can manipulate energy. Quasar doesn't want any of that.

zeel
team DC owns, majestic and ultraman are capable of one or 2 shotting high end hearalds. MR M defeated fortress eradicator, and ultraman has demonstrated higher end physical feats that superman needed help with. To utilize energy draining or manipulating abilities the marvel team needs time and they will not have it this will be a short fight.

JakeTheBank
Replace Ronan with Thor.
Replace Black Bolt with Silver Surfer.

It's not so lopsided in favor for DC then, imo.

dmills
Hmmm... Let's break this down

Team Superman. Excepting perhaps Apollo, they're extremely powerful from top to bottom. Speed blitzers at every position. Upper tier class 100 strength across the board. Three extremely competent battle savvy fighters -supes, cyborg and of course, Majestros. Anchored by arguably the highest of high heralds who also happens to be one of, if not the strongest willed characters in all of comicdom, Superman.

Downside: In a word? Too many Supermen. Not a very diverse group in terms of powerset. Also, they have several members that can either be severely hampered or rendered outright useless via weakness exploitation.


Team Marvel...

An extremely well balanced group. This team has no real weaknesses offensively or defensively. Quantum energy manipulators, Gravity manipulators, magical energies etc. Not to mention 3 members who can flatout absorb nigh limitless amounts of energy -Bill, Quasar and Nova. 5 of the them have the power to BFR entire teams solo. 3 are confirmed on panel to have the energy output to wreck entire worlds. Bill, Nova, Sentry. Maybe Quasar.

Downside: Going by feats, no one on the team is on average physically a match for the muscle of Team Supes. Team marvel has 5 class 100s -Bill, Sentry, Glads, The King (or he damn sure punches like one) and Nova. None of whom can match the Supermen imo. Speed is also a weakness. Basically in terms of reflexive speed you've got Glads, Sentry, Nova. All of the Supermen have elite reflexive speed.


Overall: Although team Marvel has high end energy manipulators, I just can't buy the typical forum theory that they'd be able to realistically pull off the coordinated weakness exploitations that would be required to take out much of team Supes. On the other hand, they do have the ability to BFR team Supes en masse. Easily. If BFR isn't an option, team Marvel is going to have to get very creative with match ups imo.

dmills
Prep,

Which Ultraman btw?

Prep-Man
The one from Superman Beyond. Is all I know.

Supermen seem like not much versatility, but Cap has magical attacks, Icon has energy attacks, and so does Majestic.

Apollo might be the weakest on either team. We need to see more of him, but so far he might be Superman level. Or a notch below.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
And Superman has arguably the most impressive TP resistance of any herald in DC. I have the impression that Wonder Woman's more resistant. Originally posted by dmills
Hmmm... Let's break this down

Team Superman. Excepting perhaps Apollo, they're extremely powerful from top to bottom. Apollo is criminally underrated.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I have the impression that Wonder Woman's more resistant.

thumb up

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Prep-Man
The one from Superman Beyond. Is all I know.

Supermen seem like not much versatility, but Cap has magical attacks, Icon has energy attacks, and so does Majestic.

Apollo might be the weakest on either team. We need to see more of him, but so far he might be Superman level. Or a notch below.

Plus, Cyborg Superman...

In actual fact, it could be argued that Team Superman is more versatile. Yes, they are all flying bricks, but they also have heat vision, freeze breath, genius intellect, technopathy, energy projection (Icon), magic, plus speed attacks etc.

Juntai
Originally posted by Enzeru
Good for Superman, but I think that does not matter right now for two reasons (of course I was the one who said that Sentry could affect Superman with his telepathy):

- Sentry does not seem to be limited to telepathy. He can tap into empathy-powers and empathy works differently then telepathy, since he was able to overpower the Hulk who is immune to telepathy because of his brute nature and ... but now I'm only assuming: I say he could also affect the Flash, even though the Flash can accelerate his thoughts to avoid telepathy - empathy is still a different level and once it hits you and confronts you with miserable stuff from your life, you're affected and every comic book character has bad experiences which can be used to overpower him. The Void's empathy was even so strong that he confronted Spider-Man with bad moments from his future and that is actually huge.

- But besides that no one ever said that Marvel would mind-control the crap out of the DC team. Sentry can't mind-control. He never could and if he ever returns back, I will be glad if he stays unable to mindcontrols others, since that would speak against a very interesting theory of mine how Sentry's background could be explained well.

The main advantage the Marvel team has is indeed the energy manipulation. They have a lot of energy manipulators and they could be able to use that to gain the upper hand, if they take out few of the enemies.
That's like the only way, since the Marvel team has way too many physically weak characters who would be taken out by Superman level characters out rather easily if they go fully out and I expect someone like Mr. Majestic to go fully out and physically he should be the most powerful character in the entire battle and that could be game-breaking if he randomly attacks someone like Black Bolt, who would only have his voice to defend himself, but he would lack the speed to utilize it, if Mr. Majestic decides to speed blitz him. Black Bolt does not have the durability to last long.
The same goes for Ronan, who is basically only a 20 tonner or something without his gear and if he does not have his uber-hammer, then he is probably the weakest link in this one. Making these points to the wrong person. I barely even read into this post before hitting reply to let you know. I was just correcting your misconception on Maxwell Lord.

-Pr-
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I have the impression that Wonder Woman's more resistant. Apollo is criminally underrated.

I'd consider hers an immunity, so I wouldn't really count it.

Originally posted by Enzeru
1. I think it depends. It would be the writers decision. Both scenarios would make sense. Either Sentry passivly amping Superman with the solar energy output, or Sentry realizing it in the beginning and using energy-drain to depower him.

I also don't think it's actually something the Sentry has to do specificly, but more something like that he can do while doing other things. For example he did not have to stand next to the person he healed and point with his finger in the right direction. He went away and the person healed, so I assume that he could maybe heal his teammates in the process.

2. Yeah, you're right about that, but I think that he can be drained quicker, then he can absorb solar radiation to gain his strenght back and that's the way for Team Marvel to depower him without hurting him, since it would not be in their character to basically kill off an opponent.

3. I think even the showings besides his first mini portray him as a very powerful being.
Of course he was over the top in his first mini and still very powerful in his second one, but his powerlevel varies with his mental stability.
If he is unstable, then he is also a lot weaker, but he is still damn powerful.

For example:

- When he fought WW Hulk he was very unstable and therefore very weak, but he still had the upper hand in the fight and stopped Hulk in the end and that's actually pretty neat, if you think about some of WW Hulks feats. Of course there was a lot of PIS during the entire arc, but it's still hard to deny that it was a very powerful version of the Hulk.

- He also fought the Collective who killed Alpha Flight and easily overpowered Binary, who is a planet buster, yet an unstable Sentry came along and stalemated the Collective long enough until they found a way to defeat him.

From there it can only get better.
Moments where the Sentry got outplayed like for example where he got overloaded by Hammond (Human Torch) ... That was just weird - a plot device just to remove him as fast as possible from the battlefield, since there is no point in him soloing simply everyone on the field. His powerlevel would allow him to do so.

1. Maybe.
2. I don't know; he's been able to charge nigh instantly before, even after being exposed to red sun energy.
3. I was talking about having to include everything that came after the minis.

Either way, I honestly don't think Sentry without Void is going to beat Superman, tbh.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'd consider hers an immunity, so I wouldn't really count it.



1. Maybe.
2. I don't know; he's been able to charge nigh instantly before, even after being exposed to red sun energy.
3. I was talking about having to include everything that came after the minis.

Either way, I honestly don't think Sentry without Void is going to beat Superman, tbh.

Agreed, and this is ignoring Majestic's ability to build a giant solar recharger to get all the solar-powered people back in the game...

Enzeru
Originally posted by -Pr-
Either way, I honestly don't think Sentry without Void is going to beat Superman, tbh.

That's where you're mixing up some facts. Let me tell you something and decide for yourself if you're going to read this one or believe it, if you do so, since I'm a giant Sentry fan, you could consider me a fanboy, but I consider myself as someone who was reading about every single of Sentry's appearances and I understand the concept behind the character.

The characters weakness is his unstable mind. If he is mentally unstable, then he is weaker. If he is stable and confident, then he basically has no limits.
When he appeared in the beginning he was the only one who was able to go toe on toe with the Void, who was basically always over the top, since he didn't bother about any mental illnesses or something like that.
Later on Sentry was depowered for the plot, but they didn't decrease his powerlevel, they only gave him more intense mental problems.

Remember his first mini, and also his second mini. He was powerful there, he was fairly stable, doing awesome stuff and fighting against the Void, who was a separate entity.
But why was the Void a separate entity? Sentry was simply too mind-strong, will-strong, too stable and Void didn't have a chance to take over Sentry's body, so he had to recreate himself as a separate being.

Later on when Sentry joined the Avengers / Bendis took over the writing, he made Sentry unstable. The Void had an easy game with the Sentry and started taking over. You could see it when Sentry got black eyes and acted like a maniac. That was the Void.

Now, this is how the fight against Superman would be ...
If you let him fight aganist an unstable Sentry, then yeah - He would have an easy game, since an unstable Sentry's powerlevel is not that high, yet high enough to stop WW Hulk and the Collective.
But if Superman gains the upper hand and Sentry starts doubting everything, the Void appears and let's be honest ... Void >>> Superman.

If you let Superman fight against a stable Sentry, who is so powerful that the Void can't take over and probably even more powerful since he defeated the Void in his second mini in a bloody fight and tossed him into the sun.
Then the fight would be very interesting and I would actually give it to the Sentry in the long run, because he has the superior powerset and maybe even powerlevel, since shredding worlds while holding back sounds awesome.

Many people also believe that Sentry does not have matter manipulation, but the people who say so were never interested in the character in the first place so they don't know as much as someone who is basically obsessed with the Sentry.

I also say that this is not some kind of fan-wanking to the Sentry. I don't disagree with you. The regular Superman would stomp an unstable Sentry who is not allowed to use the Void, but such a fight is basically the ultimate proof that the OP knows that Superman wouldn't stand a chance otherwise, since Sentry's unstable mind is his only weakness.
There were times where he was stable and therefore a lot more powerful.
Making him unstable for the battle, simply because he was turned into a mental nutcase for the plot is not fair, because it's basically the exact same thing as we would see Superman having adventures for years with a piece of Kryptonite in his body which would weaken him, so that even Solomon Grundy could punch him into the ground.

-Pr-
Actually, I'm more quoting the forum ruling we have about Sentry. stick out tongue

Enzeru
Originally posted by -Pr-
Actually, I'm more quoting the forum ruling we have about Sentry. stick out tongue

I remember some time ago when I was lurking I saw a weird thread created by a MOD, where he was talking about an Sentry-instance and decribed it totally wrong.
I was shocked by that ... o_o I wonder if it was here on Killermovies (damn, I love that community-name).

-Pr-
This is what i'm talking about:

Originally posted by Badabing
There have been arguments about Sentry, Void, Siege and Molecule Man. This has been an on again, off again discussion among mods and a few posters.

We think the best way to handle the disagreement is as follows:

Siege Sentry/Void should be a self contained character within the arc for thread purposes. And not applied to anything before Siege.

Sentry and Void feats are not interchangeable, at all.

Siege feats by Sentry and Void should not be applied to anything preceding the arc.

The Molecule Man vs Sentry/Void fight shouldn't be considered a typical or average showing since the power displayed happened only once and therefore isn't verifiable. Also, Owen's erratic past regarding his own mental state should be considered.

It's apparent that Sentry/Void was evolving during Siege by the feats and dialogue. It's also shown that Sentry was "voiding" out even when he still looked like regular Sentry. Given the ambiguity regarding Sentry/Void, we think it's for the best that the character be separated by the Siege arc.

So, to avoid excess flaming and bashing, we would like threads to show either the Siege Sentry/Void or regular Sentry/Void to avoid any problems.

Enzeru
Yeah, that was unfortunately the one, but it's full of flaws. A pity.

dmills
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed, and this is ignoring Majestic's ability to build a giant solar recharger to get all the solar-powered people back in the game...

Which would in turn be promptly rendered useless by the WM.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by dmills
Which would in turn be promptly rendered useless by the WM.

...until WM gets taken over by Hank

dmills
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
...until WM gets taken over by Hank

Oh boy. I don't want to get into that controversy again lol. We've already had a long thread over that one. But there are several reasons why that won't happen.

Enzeru
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
...until WM gets taken over by Hank

So, what do we have right now?

1. Hank hacks Beta Ray Bill
2. Hank takes over the Worldmind
3. Hank hacks CLOC and mentally overloads Sentry with catastrophes

Hank solos :-X

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by dmills
Oh boy. I don't want to get into that controversy again lol. We've already had a long thread over that one. But there are several reasons why that won't happen.

Lol hehe ok, I'll accept the general consensus then!

dmills
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol hehe ok, I'll accept the general consensus then!

Nah bro, don't ever except general consensus around here if you don't believe it. There's not a mod ruling on it or anything lol. In that particular thread the Nova side (basically me and one other dude I think) presented enough evidence to cast a long shadow of doubt on the possibility of that happening. But make no mistake, it definitely possible.

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