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This is a 4 way battle of the equals. Who wins?

Thor/Bill

vs

Black Adam/Captain Marvel

vs

Superman/Ultraman

vs

Kyle/Sinestro

Who would you give the majority too?

Who would win first, second, third, fourth place?

I thought you said this was a battle of equals.

1. Superman/ultraman
2. Thor/Bill
3. Captain marvel/Black adam
4. Sinestro/kyle

Originally posted by -Pr-
I thought you said this was a battle of equals.



This is a battle of equals. Each team have a equal partner.

Sinestro > Kyle.

Anyway...

Thor and Bill will undoubtedly have the best teamwork of everyone present. Billy and Adam will probably have the second best rapport.

In a massive four way brawl, I think that the Hammer Brothers would wind up winning. As far as who comes in next, it depends on which team would find common ground first.

Originally posted by carver9


This is a battle of equals. Each team have a equal partner.

Not really.

1. Thor/ Bill
2. Black adam / Captain Marvel
3. Superman/ Ultraman

I think Superman / Ultraman would have bad chances here because of the amount of magic.

1. Captain Marvel / Black Adam
2. Thor / Beta Ray Bill (Because of the possible teamwork and the versatility)
3. Sinestro / Kyle
4. Superman / Ultraman

I'm giving the victory to Captain Marvel and Black Adam because of their speed advantage over Thor / BRB and Sinestro / Kyle. They're also strong and durable, so they could last for a good while.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Sinestro > Kyle.

Anyway...

Thor and Bill will undoubtedly have the best teamwork of everyone present. Billy and Adam will probably have the second best rapport.

In a massive four way brawl, I think that the Hammer Brothers would wind up winning. As far as who comes in next, it depends on which team would find common ground first. *****, please.

Assuming they work together Adam and Marvel would get the nod IMO.

Originally posted by Enzeru
I think Superman / Ultraman would have bad chances here because of the amount of magic.

1. Captain Marvel / Black Adam
2. Thor / Beta Ray Bill (Because of the possible teamwork and the versatility)
3. Sinestro / Kyle
4. Superman / Ultraman

I'm giving the victory to Captain Marvel and Black Adam because of their speed advantage over Thor / BRB and Sinestro / Kyle. They're also strong and durable, so they could last for a good while.
Ultraman doesn't have any magic weakness and despite all their "magical punches" neither marvel nor adam have a single victory over superman. How does magic weakness results in kyle/sinestro being higher than superman/ultraman anyway? It's going to be decided between hammer bros and superman/ultraman.

Cap/Adam

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ultraman doesn't have any magic weakness and despite all their "magical punches" neither marvel nor adam have a single victory over superman. How does magic weakness results in kyle/sinestro being higher than superman/ultraman anyway? It's going to be decided between hammer bros and superman/ultraman.

Ultraman isn't going to win the battle all by himself. While he is powerful, he would still have to deal with powerful and skilled opponents and Superman would really have some serious problems with 4 characters on the battlefield who can dish out magical damage, so that could turn him into the weakest link with all the damage he is not that resistent to.

Additionally to that, aren't the Lanterns able to drain energy / radiation with their rings? The same goes for Thor with Mjolnir. They could basically suck Superman dry.

Originally posted by Mindset
*****, please.

U mad, but it's okay. Blame Johns.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Ultraman isn't going to win the battle all by himself. While he is powerful, he would still have to deal with powerful and skilled opponents and Superman would really have some serious problems with 4 characters on the battlefield who can dish out magical damage, so that could turn him into the weakest link with all the damage he is not that resistent to.

Additionally to that, aren't the Lanterns able to drain energy / radiation with their rings? The same goes for Thor with Mjolnir. They could basically suck Superman dry.
The only reason shazam bros are considered a threat to superman is because of their magic. Remove magic from equation and they are just slightly weaker, slightly slower kryptonians. Magic is a hinderance to superman but it's not like he would fold against it. If you can provide any instance of superman folding against BLUNT force of magic, please provide. I already shut you up in superman/sentry thread about superman's energy absorption. Lanterns haven't done any energy manipulation in ages and thor or bill would not use it in normal condition. IF they start throwing more exotic powers like energy absorption, superman can just vibrate and remove their hearts. But we both know that's not gonna happen, thor and bill are too proud to use their more exotic powers against bricks.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The only reason shazam bros are considered a threat to superman is because of their magic. Remove magic from equation and they are just slightly weaker, slightly slower kryptonians.

That's not entirely true. Their base and raw physical attributes are enough for them to be threats to Superman. The magic aspect just gives them an advantage.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Remove magic from equation and they are just slightly weaker, slightly slower kryptonians. I already shut you up in superman/sentry thread about superman's energy absorption. Lanterns haven't done any energy manipulation in ages and thor or bill would not use it in normal condition.

1. Superman considers Captain Marvel and himself as equals. Give Captain Marvel the magic and he has an slight advantage.

2. You didn't do crap, because I only wanted to show that Superman can be drained, and if someone like the Sentry comes along, Superman would be in trouble, yet that's hard to prove, because the only instance where Sentry could have bad absorbed the enemies energy / radiation to defeat him was in the full of PIS arc: WW Hulk.

3. You're basically taking away the abilities of people to grant Superman the victory. What kind of a fanboy are you? That's not how we judge fights. We take a look at the characters - at the entire spectrum of their powers and what they could be able to do in a battle do defeat the enemies and not brawl it out in a stupid slugfest.

- Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Thor and Beta Ray Bill using their magic to take out Superman, who is a very powerful opponent, yet would struggle withi that much magic... That is what could happen.

- Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Sinestro and Kyle using drain to weaken Superman and take him out? That is what could happen too, because Thor and Beta Ray Bill would have taken an enemy out, without actually harming him, while Kyle would be concerned about Superman and for Sinestro it would be the fastest way to end the fight.

- Superman using his superspeed to vibrate his hands into the enemies bodies and kill him in the process...? Yeah, that is totally in character for Superman and that is totally what would happen. Besides that, if Superman considers Captain Marvel and himself as equals, he will not have such a high speed advantage.

If they all fight at the maximum capacity of their powers, yet stay in character (which is how we actually see and judge fights), then Superman and Ultraman would have some real problems in this one, especially Superman because of the amount of magic. No one is going to one-shot him in this battle without using some fancy moves, but even Superman can be harmed and if someone with the strenght of Thor hits you and releases additional lightnings or Mjolnir magic, then that hurts, even Superman and now matter how much of a fanboy you are, you're not going to change this.

Superman / Ultraman are the losers of this battle, face it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The only reason shazam bros are considered a threat to superman is because of their magic. Remove magic from equation and they are just slightly weaker, slightly slower kryptonians. Magic is a hinderance to superman but it's not like he would fold against it. If you can provide any instance of superman folding against BLUNT force of magic, please provide. I already shut you up in superman/sentry thread about superman's energy absorption. Lanterns haven't done any energy manipulation in ages and thor or bill would not use it in normal condition. IF they start throwing more exotic powers like energy absorption, superman can just vibrate and remove their hearts. But we both know that's not gonna happen, thor and bill are too proud to use their more exotic powers against bricks.

Tone it down, please. No reason to make it personal.

--

As for the thread, I can see Superman giving anyone here trouble, though I think putting Ultraman with him was a bit of a mistake.

Originally posted by -Pr-
As for the thread, I can see Superman giving anyone here trouble, though I think putting Ultraman with him was a bit of a mistake.

Agreed.

Shoulda gave him Majestic.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Agreed.

Shoulda gave him Majestic.

Maybe, or Zod or something.

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I've never been that impressed by Ultraman. FC was nice, sure, but outside of that? He just never did it for me. He gets lip service, but I don't think i've ever seriously considered him a peer to Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Maybe, or Zod or something.

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I've never been that impressed by Ultraman. FC was nice, sure, but outside of that? He just never did it for me. He gets lip service, but I don't think i've ever seriously considered him a peer to Superman.

Me either. Final Crisis is really the only thing recent in which he was impressive. His last appearance was fighting (Dark) Supergirl, which was probably intended to be a high showing for Kara and a less than stellar one for him.

I'd take Bizarro over Ultraman everyday.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Me either. Final Crisis is really the only thing recent in which he was impressive. His last appearance was fighting (Dark) Supergirl, which was probably intended to be a high showing for Kara and a less than stellar one for him.

I'd take Bizarro over Ultraman everyday.

Definitely agree.

That Dark Supergirl arc was full of wtf, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
U mad, but it's okay. Blame Johns. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NNOBfHl0Gq8/S0-wFkUTvdI/AAAAAAAAAUg/_dzuwQJasn4/s400/blackbeltjones2.jpg

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Agreed.

Shoulda gave him Majestic.

Majestic is overated and I don't use him often because people don't understand that he is a peer of Supes, Surfer, Thor, and Gladiator (I sure as the hell did include Gladiator...lol). People wank him. As for Zod...Ultraman is more powerful than him imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Majestic is overated and I don't use him often because people don't understand that he is a peer of Supes, Surfer, Thor, and Gladiator (I sure as the hell did include Gladiator...lol). People wank him. As for Zod...Ultraman is more powerful than him imo.

Majestic is overrated about as much as Thor, Hulk, Superman, and Surfer are.

People wank the shit out of those other guys, too. It's called being a High Herald. Someone somewhere thinks he's the shit and > everyone else.

Originally posted by carver9
Majestic is overated and I don't use him often because people don't understand that he is a peer of Supes, Surfer, Thor, and Gladiator (I sure as the hell did include Gladiator...lol). People wank him. As for Zod...Ultraman is more powerful than him imo.

You don't think you're overrating Ultraman by putting him in this fight?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Majestic is overrated about as much as Thor, Hulk, Superman, and Surfer are.

People wank the shit out of those other guys, too. It's called being a High Herald. Someone somewhere thinks he's the shit and > everyone else.

From what I have seen, people put him above Thor, Hulk, Superman, Surfer, and Gladiator (you forgot to include him...helped ya out).

It's a different kind of wanking though. Majority of Majestic fts are space cheese fts. He fought a Universal threat "and won" but was amped while doing this. His other win came from Captain Atom. I don't consider that as being enough to put him in Supes, Thor, Surfer, Hulk (don't know why you included Hulk since he is above Herald levels), and Gladiator (please don't forget to include him next time). Majority of his fts are space cheese fts. That isn't enough imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You don't think you're overrating Ultraman by putting him in this fight?

Ultraman has given Superman fits and please don't post that Trinity fight because....

lawl.

Originally posted by carver9
Ultraman has given Superman fits and please don't post that Trinity fight because....

because what? it would destroy your argument? don't worry, i have other examples. You know that too. Utraman isn't on Superman's level.

Originally posted by carver9
From what I have seen, people put him above Thor, Hulk, Superman, Surfer, and Gladiator (you forgot to include him...helped ya out).

It's a different kind of wanking though. Majority of Majestic fts are space cheese fts. He fought a Universal threat "and won" but was amped while doing this. His other win came from Captain Atom. I don't consider that as being enough to put him in Supes, Thor, Surfer, Hulk (don't know why you included Hulk since he is above Herald levels), and Gladiator (please don't forget to include him next time). Majority of his fts are space cheese fts. That isn't enough imo.

Thank you for proving Jake right carver.

Originally posted by jalek moye
Thank you for proving Jake right carver.

I didn't prove him right. People actually have fts to fall on with the characters Jake listed to wank them....Majestic doesn't have the necessary fts to even fall in the "wank" category. He needs more battles.

Originally posted by carver9
From what I have seen, people put him above Thor, Hulk, Superman, Surfer, and Gladiator (you forgot to include him...helped ya out).

It's a different kind of wanking though. Majority of Majestic fts are space cheese fts. He fought a Universal threat "and won" but was amped while doing this. His other win came from Captain Atom. I don't consider that as being enough to put him in Supes, Thor, Surfer, Hulk (don't know why you included Hulk since he is above Herald levels), and Gladiator (please don't forget to include him next time). Majority of his fts are space cheese fts. That isn't enough imo.

Lol.

Classic Carver. Not sure what part of this post is the best, but reading it all made me smile.

Wonderman has defeated more powerful enemies than what Majestic has defeated. Hell, Spiderman has defeated more powerful enemies than what Majestic has defeated.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Lol.

Classic Carver. Not sure what part of this post is the best, but reading it all made me smile.

Lol...you are still missing the point. Space cheese fts isn't enough to suggest that Majestic can hang with the big boys so why use him? Ultraman is a better choice.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you are still missing the point. Space cheese fts isn't enough to suggest that Majestic can hang with the big boys so why use him? Ultraman is a better choice.

And yet you named Gladiator. biscuits

Originally posted by -Pr-
And yet you named Gladiator.

Gladiator have a mixture of fts though. In one corner he has space cheese fts and in another corner he has fts of shotting Heralds. Can't say the same for Majestic.

Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator have a mixture of fts though. In one corner he has space cheese fts and in another corner he has fts of shotting Heralds. Can't say the same for Majestic.

You're a big Majestic reader, are you?

Originally posted by -Pr-
You're a big Majestic reader, are you?

Lol...you are trying to be funny. No, I'm not a big reader of Majestics but the comics that I did read involving the character aids my argument. Plus, I know about the character fts. Pr, deep down inside, you know I am telling the truth.

Just agree with me so that we can end this.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonderman has defeated more powerful enemies than Majestic. Hell, Spiderman has defeated more powerful enemies than what Majestic has defeated.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/CMPunkWTF.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/CMPunkWTF.gif

Majestic would be the strongest one in this entire battle, if the OP included him. That's not overrating, it's a fact, because of the ridiculousness of the character.

Jim Lee, the characters creator stated himself, that he wanted Mr. Majestic to be a far more powerful Superman and that's what Majestic is.
Yeah, he was amped often and yeah, he often had toys (the blades), but he is still damn powerful and his speed should give him a huge advantage most of the time, aswell his skill / intelligence / morals.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you are trying to be funny. No, I'm not a big reader of Majestics but the comics that I did read involving the character aids my argument. Plus, I know about the character fts. Pr, deep down inside, you know I am telling the truth.

Just agree with me so that we can end this.

I'd agree with you if you were in any way right...

Originally posted by Enzeru
Majestic would be the strongest one in this entire battle, if the OP included him. That's not overrating, it's a fact, because of the ridiculousness of the character.

Jim Lee, the characters creator stated himself, that he wanted Mr. Majestic to be a far more powerful Superman and that's what Majestic is.
Yeah, he was amped often and yeah, he often had toys (the blades), but he is still damn powerful and his speed should give him a huge advantage most of the time, aswell his skill / intelligence / morals.

This post is my proof.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Jim Lee, the characters creator stated himself, that he wanted Mr. Majestic to be a far more powerful Superman and that's what Majestic is.

He's not, though.

Originally posted by carver9
This post is my proof.

Don't see how.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't see how.

Carver.

That's all that needs to be said, really.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't see how.

Majestic doesn't have a single ft that puts him above Superman...not one but people say that Majestics is his superior.

Originally posted by carver9
Majestic doesn't have a single ft that puts him above Superman...not one but people say that Majestics is his superior.

I could say the same about a bunch of characters. shifty

Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator doesn't have a single ft that puts him above Superman...not one but people say that Gladiator is his superior.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/cookiemonster2.gif

Originally posted by -Pr-
I could say the same about a bunch of characters. shifty

I know where you are going with this and with that being said...everyone have a good night...will debate with you all later. I proved my point, so I'm out.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://smiliesftw.com/x/cookiemonster2.gif



Originally posted by carver9
I know where you are going with this and with that being said...everyone have a good night...will debate with you all later. I proved my point, so I'm out.

No, you didn't.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://smiliesftw.com/x/cookiemonster2.gif

I can't believe you just did that Jake. So you and Pr are tag team partners now? I'm definitely getting off. Holla.

Originally posted by carver9
I can't believe you just did that Jake. So you and Pr are tag team partners now? I'm definitely getting off. Holla.

It's not hard to find people that agree with you when you speak the truth.

I think many people underestimate Majestic, because they downgraded him by a good amount after his first solo series. There was never a retcon of the character, where they made him clearly weaker then before, he just didn't pull off as amazing stuff as he did in the past, but his powerlevel stayed.
And that's probably the problem. Many of his best feats appeared in his first solo series and that's why I'm telling you that Jim Lee had the intention to create a Superman like character, but just to make him far more stronger and far more experienced. The age hits it also out, because Superman is 29 years old, if I remember correctly, while Mr. Majestic is like about 10.000 years old!

His most impressive speed / intelligence feat was probably the instance where he built a gadget in nano-seconds, a Molecular Disentangler, which no one ever built before him. Yeah, he needed more seconds to finish the deal, but the first seconds were there for the research.

Imagine if someone with that degree of speed doesn't build a gadget, but hits you multiple times. I don't see Thor / Beta Ray Bill / Sinestro / Kyle being able to react to that.

It's always all about the speed. A good boxer is fast. He is striking fast and makes a lot of impact damage, because of the speed. He is also able to dodge more, because of his speed.
It doesn't matter how durable you are. If you just take and take and take the hits, you will go down eventually.

Originally posted by Enzeru
I think many people underestimate Majestic, because they downgraded him by a good amount after his first solo series. There was never a retcon of the character, where they made him clearly weaker then before, he just didn't pull off as amazing stuff as he did in the past, but his powerlevel stayed.
And that's probably the problem. Many of his best feats appeared in his first solo series and that's why I'm telling you that Jim Lee had the intention to create a Superman like character, but just to make him far more stronger and far more experienced. The age hits it also out, because Superman is 29 years old, if I remember correctly, while Mr. Majestic is like about 10.000 years old!

His most impressive speed / intelligence feat was probably the instance where he built a gadget in nano-seconds, a Molecular Disentangler, which no one ever built before him. Yeah, he needed more seconds to finish the deal, but the first seconds were there for the research.

Imagine if someone with that degree of speed doesn't build a gadget, but hits you multiple times. I don't see Thor / Beta Ray Bill / Sinestro / Kyle being able to react to that.

It's always all about the speed. A good boxer is fast. He is striking fast and makes a lot of impact damage, because of the speed. He is also able to dodge more, because of his speed.
It doesn't matter how durable you are. If you just take and take and take the hits, you will go down eventually.

There are numerous of Heralds with better speed fts than that.

But none have the brain of Majestic. He's a brick, but a genius brick.

And Clark "i created my own world" Kent isn't?

I knew you'd show!

Post Crisis Superman has some crazy intelligence feats, but PC Supes is king.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I knew you'd show!

Post Crisis Superman has some crazy intelligence feats, but PC Supes is king.

Only because there are so few Aquaman threads.

Originally posted by carver9
There are numerous of Heralds with better speed fts than that.

No, not really.
It's a difference if you travel in a straight line, or if you actually do so many things in that time.
It's a very huge difference between traveling speed and movement / thinking speed.

Thor is the best example for that. He can travel with the speed of light, thanks to Mjolnir, but without it, he can't reach that speed and he also can't move that fast for sure.

And now think about the instance where Mr. Majestic builds a complicated gadget in seconds. He has to stop for that, he has to move on for that.

Originally posted by Enzeru
1. Superman considers Captain Marvel and himself as equals. Give Captain Marvel the magic and he has an slight advantage.

That's a strange way of thinking. Superman has considered Wonder woman his equal too, called J'onn and hal has more power than entire justice league and said that Guy gardner warrior hits harder than doomsday. His "toughest" foe are at least half dozen. It's in his
nature to encourage his peers but he has surpassed all of them. This is the only fight that has produced any result and superman beat marvel to a pulp in it
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/action_comics_annual_04_47.jpg.



Yes I did. You come with a hyperbolic statement and some ambiguous sentry holding a cosmic cube and said sentry can drain superman. When I proved you wrong you threw a hissy fit


I never said superman can't be drained, I said sentry doesn't have feats to prove he can drain superman. Superman has used electricity to recharge himself, used geo thermal energy to recharge himself, absorbed an entire sun capable of destroying half a galaxy, used his stored light in his cells to fuel a machine that rewrote multiverse, forcibly absorbed solar energy from Rampage. The dying body of superman had enough energy to astonish the classic eradicator who has turned entire sun red under his own power
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Return-of-Superman-025.jpg

Sentry doesn't have feats to compare how much you like to blame PIS.



You are taking away superman's power to resist energy drain or resist magic.



This is not superman vs everyone else. Yes they COULD but how much they are going to co-operate is the question.



Now you are using out of character Thor and Beta ray bill. When was the last time Thor or bill used energy absorption against a brick. They both have too much proud to use it. It's as likely as superman using vibration and remove their heart and mind you he has done something like that against cyborg superman. Means not likely. Lanterns haven't done virtually NO energy manipulation since Johns started writing them. It's not going to happen anytime soon.



Heh, and thor or bill using energy absorption on a brick is totally in character for them, right. Black adam was tiring at mach 500 in a race with Jay garrick

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/eb1fd_flash4.jpg
And wow what a logic, if superman considers marvel his peer in strength he must be equal in his speed too.



So anyone who disagrees with you is a fanboy right. It's not like superman one of the fastest character in comics can dodge a hammer strike or dodge a lightning when he sees lightning in slow motion long ago in Byrne days
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/827/supermanvol2039p20jv9.jpg



I have no qualms in agreeing in admitting superman/ultraman can lose this match but not like you are describing it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://smiliesftw.com/x/cookiemonster2.gif

Originally posted by abhilegend
I never said superman can't be drained, I said sentry doesn't have feats to prove he can drain superman.

You don't understand what you're doing right? Let me make it clear for you.

You're basically giving Superman the victory, because Thor, Beta Ray Bill and the Lanterns are not pulling of stuns in comics anymore which they're able to do, because it lies in their powerset and you consider it as ... what, PIS if they would be using it in this fight?

Comic book characters brawl it out nowdays. That's not a way to judge fan-fictive fights. Would you only brawl, if you had the powerset of Silver Surfer, who could do so much more then just to brawl? No, I guess you would not, yet that's what Silver Surfer was doing in his most recent match against Thor. It does not mean that the characters don't have these powers and judging by their powerlevel, they can often do it on a large scale.

But you're basically taking away Thor and the Lanterns their draining abilities, just because they don't do it twice per month, but you still dig out 10-20-30 years old scans of Superman, where he manages to do something what could give him much trouble nowdays.

Yeah nice. That is fanboy'ism at it's finest mate.
And why don't you post the scan which came after Jay Garrick outrunned Black Adam? In the very next scan, when Garrick was still at his highest velocity, Black Adam was standing basically behind him.

Yeah, Black Adam is not one of the faster speedster out there, but it will be enough for this match.

Superman / Ultraman are the weakest team in this entire battle and it does not matter if you like Superman as much as I like Sentry, it's still a fact.

Originally posted by Enzeru
You don't understand what you're doing right? Let me make it clear for you.

You're basically giving Superman the victory, because Thor, Beta Ray Bill and the Lanterns are not pulling of stuns in comics anymore which they're able to do, because it lies in their powerset and you consider it as ... what, PIS if they would be using it in this fight?

Comic book characters brawl it out nowdays. That's not a way to judge fan-fictive fights. Would you only brawl, if you had the powerset of Silver Surfer, who could do so much more then just to brawl? No, I guess you would not, yet that's what Silver Surfer was doing in his most recent match against Thor. It does not mean that the characters don't have these powers and judging by their powerlevel, they can often do it on a large scale.

But you're basically taking away Thor and the Lanterns their draining abilities, just because they don't do it twice per month, but you still dig out 10-20-30 years old scans of Superman, where he manages to do something what could give him much trouble nowdays.

Yeah nice. That is fanboy'ism at it's finest mate.
And why don't you post the scan which came after Jay Garrick outrunned Black Adam? In the very next scan, when Garrick was still at his highest velocity, Black Adam was standing basically behind him.

Yeah, Black Adam is not one of the faster speedster out there, but it will be enough for this match.

Superman / Ultraman are the weakest team in this entire battle and it does not matter if you like Superman as much as I like Sentry, it's still a fact.
We are not talking of powersets here. On one hand you are taking away superman's vibrational attack because it's not in his character and then you flip it upside down when it comes to thor and lanterns. What are you talking about, those scans are from byrne days one of the weakest versions of superman.
Jay has admitted on panel that superman is faster than him, they were running neck by neck when they raced after wally at just shy of lightspeed and kal had outrun jay if he didn't stole his speed. Adam was tiring at mach 500, superman started his race with wally at OVER 2000 mps or mach 9350 and both were accelarating all the time without slowing down. So when you can't win an argument just state your opinion and be done with it, nice debating. Prove your opinions with facts not with could/would/should happen. Another fun fact, no standard GL has a single victory over superman in entire post crisis history.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We are not talking of powersets here. On one hand you are taking away superman's vibrational attack because it's not in his character and then you flip it upside down when it comes to thor and lanterns.

Listen mate, this is the very first time for me to do something like that, but I didn't bother to read your post any further, since the quoted part is enough to realize that it's pointless to debate with you.

Read this carefully, if you want the reason:

It is not in Superman's character to use his superspeed to vibrate through the chest of his enemies and destroy their heart or something like that.

But it IS in character of Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Kyle and even Sinestro (if he wants to do it the fast way) if they use their drain, to depower Superman and take him out of the battle, without harming him any further.

They HAVE the ability to do so, because it's a part of their powerset. They didn't use it often, but that's the way how comic book fights are written. Just because they writers are taking the easy way out, it does not instanly mean, that we have to look at every fight from a brawling point of view, because that would be stupid and boring.
So yeah, they have these abilities and they can use it to take him out. On the contrary you're posting scans of Superman where he resisted drains and so on, yet he was also drained on other instances / or didn't have to deal with such powerful enemies, who could pull it off, if they wanted, since they're nearly his equals.
It would be in character for them to do so.

Everything else you're writing is clear fanboy'ism, and it's just weird. Sorry for that, but it's how I see it.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Listen mate, this is the very first time for me to do something like that, but I didn't bother to read your post any further, since the quoted part is enough to realize that it's pointless to debate with you.

Read this carefully, if you want the reason:

It is not in Superman's character to use his superspeed to vibrate through the chest of his enemies and destroy their heart or something like that.

But it IS in character of Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Kyle and even Sinestro (if he wants to do it the fast way) if they use their drain, to depower Superman and take him out of the battle, without harming him any further.

They HAVE the ability to do so, because it's a part of their powerset. They didn't use it often, but that's the way how comic book fights are written. Just because they writers are taking the easy way out, it does not instanly mean, that we have to look at every fight from a brawling point of view, because that would be stupid and boring.
So yeah, they have these abilities and they can use it to take him out. On the contrary you're posting scans of Superman where he resisted drains and so on, yet he was also drained on other instances / or didn't have to deal with such powerful enemies, who could pull it off, if they wanted, since they're nearly his equals.
It would be in character for them to do so.

Everything else you're writing is clear fanboy'ism, and it's just weird. Sorry for that, but it's how I see it.
We don't go on what ifs/could/should happen in comics. Lanterns have rarely used energy manipulation post-crisis, almost never when johns writes them, you can ask any GL fan. So if you don't like superman's feats doesn't mean that we would discard them. I am asking you where has anyone drained superman completely like you are throwing around? You are not understanding it, Thor is a warrior. He likes to brawl, he is not going to energy absorption as his main attack. Yes we can go to his more exotic powers route but in this match CIS is on means he is less likely to use those. You are acting like thor is going to railroad superman or if he doesn't than it's PIS or writer is biased. There is a reason superman is one of the highest of high heralds. He has fought every type of enemies and overcome them, if you don't like it feel free to complain to DC.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We are not talking of powersets here. On one hand you are taking away superman's vibrational attack because it's not in his character and then you flip it upside down when it comes to thor and lanterns. What are you talking about, those scans are from byrne days one of the weakest versions of superman.
Jay has admitted on panel that superman is faster than him, they were running neck by neck when they raced after wally at just shy of lightspeed and kal had outrun jay if he didn't stole his speed. Adam was tiring at mach 500, superman started his race with wally at OVER 2000 mps or mach 9350 and both were accelarating all the time without slowing down. So when you can't win an argument just state your opinion and be done with it, nice debating. Prove your opinions with facts not with could/would/should happen. Another fun fact, no standard GL has a single victory over superman in entire post crisis history.

Jay and Superman never raced each other at light speed. It never happened and you have to remember, during that era, Jay was depowered. He was struggling to even surpass 2000 MPs.

Originally posted by carver9
Jay and Superman never raced each other at light speed. It never happened and you have to remember, during that era, Jay was depowered. He was struggling to even surpass 2000 MPs.
Ah legendary carver and his legendary quest to prove superman's top speed is 2000 mps, how novel. Where did you got that fact that Jay was struggling to reach 2000 mps? During virtue and vice Jay, diana, Kal and wally all blitzed surtur at near lightspeed. In that race Jay stole kal's speed at near lightspeed to prevent him from time traveling alongside wally to 64th century. Do you think flashes time travel at 2000 mps? This is what exactly happened in JSA but adam exhausted himself before lightspeed and Jay stole his speed in order to travel in time to beat king of tears. Your quest of undermining superman and his feats are well known, aren't you the same guy who said KC superman could only go at 1200 mps based on a wizard interview or you know more about superman than anyone else on this board?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah legendary carver and his legendary quest to prove superman's top speed is 2000 mps, how novel. Where did you got that fact that Jay was struggling to reach 2000 mps? During virtue and vice Jay, diana, Kal and wally all blitzed surtur at near lightspeed. In that race Jay stole kal's speed at near lightspeed to prevent him from time traveling alongside wally to 64th century. Do you think flashes time travel at 2000 mps? This is what exactly happened in JSA but adam exhausted himself before lightspeed and Jay stole his speed in order to travel in time to beat king of tears. Your quest of undermining superman and his feats are well known, aren't you the same guy who said KC superman could only go at 1200 mps based on a wizard interview or you know more about superman than anyone else on this board?

This has nothing to so with Superman vs light speed. I want you to prove to me that Jay and Superman were going light speed.

Jay was stealing Adams speed...that was the reason his legs were giving out. It had nothing to do with 500 mach being his max speed. That race had circumstances and even then, Jay couldn't reach light speed. He used Adams speed coupled with his in order to achieve the speed he achieved. Jay isn't a light speedster buddy.

Originally posted by carver9
This has nothing to so with Superman vs light speed. I want you to prove to me that Jay and Superman were going light speed.

Jay was stealing Adams speed...that was the reason his legs were giving out. It had nothing to do with 500 mach being his max speed. That race had circumstances and even then, Jay couldn't reach light speed. He used Adams speed coupled with his in order to achieve the speed he achieved. Jay isn't a light speedster buddy.
When did I say that superman and jay were going lightspeed? They were just shy of it and Jay stole kal's speed and crossed lightspeed barrier to time travel to 64th century. I have already proved you wrong about jay and adam, speed steal is instanteneous like Jay said "he stumbled AND I STOLE HIS SPEED" and INSTANTENOUSLY jay crossed lightspeed. The same happened in Jay/kal race, the moment jay stole his speed they both started time travelling. I knew you would ignore virtue and vice example where wally explained how speed steal works. We all know Jay is not a lightspeed speedster, but superman IS, much to your chagrin, isn't it carver?

Originally posted by abhilegend
When did I say that superman and jay were going lightspeed? They were just shy of it and Jay stole kal's speed and crossed lightspeed barrier to time travel to 64th century. I have already proved you wrong about jay and adam, speed steal is instanteneous like Jay said "he stumbled AND I STOLE HIS SPEED" and INSTANTENOUSLY jay crossed lightspeed. The same happened in Jay/kal race, the moment jay stole his speed they both started time travelling. I knew you would ignore virtue and vice example where wally explained how speed steal works. We all know Jay is not a lightspeed speedster, but superman IS, much to your chagrin, isn't it carver?

So are you going to show me the scan of them being shy of light speed or what? I want to see that being stated. That race happened about 10 plus years ago. Around the time Superman admitted he can't go light speed. That's the reason I am asking you for proof.

Originally posted by carver9
So are you going to show me the scan of them being shy of light speed or what? I want to see that being stated. That race happened about 10 plus years ago. Around the time Superman admitted he can't go light speed. That's the reason I am asking you for proof.
What are you talking about? That race happened in DC first by Geoff johns in 2002, superman was already a lightspeed speedster as far as President Lex when he cleaved saturn's moon in half or before in Last god of krypton in 1999 when he took cythonna to the sun from earth in a matter of moments. The incident you are talking about zeta beam is 10+ year old which can't be used now. Even in old days he was faster than a lightning bolt, superman was never slow as much you wish for it. I ask you again at what speeds flashes starts to time travel? It's up to you to prove that they were going at 2000 mps as you claim and started time travel around that speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you talking about? That race happened in DC first by Geoff johns in 2002, superman was already a lightspeed speedster as far as President Lex when he cleaved saturn's moon in half or before in Last god of krypton in 1999 when he took cythonna to the sun from earth in a matter of moments. The incident you are talking about zeta beam is 10+ year old which can't be used now. Even in old days he was faster than a lightning bolt, superman was never slow as much you wish for it. I ask you again at what speeds flashes starts to time travel? It's up to you to prove that they were going at 2000 mps as you claim and started time travel around that speed.

I never said that Supes couldn't fly through space at light speed. If Ironman, Despero, Vulcan, and Classic Rogue can fly at light speeds via space, why can't Superman. Are you going to post the scans or what?

What are we even arguing about?

Thor/Bill or Billy/Teth win.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What are we even arguing about?

Thor/Bill or Billy/Teth win.

Both. I'm wondering why he thinks Supes is so far above Captain Marvel and Adam speed wise. During Batman/Superman...didn't Captain Marvel blitz him?

Originally posted by carver9
Both. I'm wondering why he thinks Supes is so far above Captain Marvel and Adam speed wise. During Batman/Superman...didn't Captain Marvel blitz him?

Not really a blitz, at least the kind of blitz people usually describe on KMC. Further more, Superman was effected by K-nite from that asteroid, the fight was somewhat staged, etc.

Still, Superman's speed has never been shown or implied directly to be too much for Captain Marvel. He can counter vibrate (even though he rarely does that), but sheer movement speed and reflexes are a wash unless you bring in endgame mode Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said that Supes couldn't fly through space at light speed. If Ironman, Despero, Vulcan, and Classic Rogue can fly at light speeds via space, why can't Superman. Are you going to post the scans or what?
So do all these characters could also become invisible, intangible or vibrate a planet to another dimension by sheer speed, cool I never knew that. I can't find scans as here in India its 4 am and I'm sleep deprived. Now you answer me what speed do flashes use to time travel and at what speed was they racing?

Originally posted by carver9
Both. I'm wondering why he thinks Supes is so far above Captain Marvel and Adam speed wise. During Batman/Superman...didn't Captain Marvel blitz him?
If by blitzing you mean sucker punching from behind at superspeed like marvel always starts the fight, then yes he did blitz a "slower than an atlantean power girl" superman.

Originally posted by carver9
So are you going to show me the scan of them being shy of light speed or what? I want to see that being stated. That race happened about 10 plus years ago. Around the time Superman admitted he can't go light speed. That's the reason I am asking you for proof.

What instance of him saying he can't go lightspeed are you referring to?

Not that it matters, as he has the feats, but I'm curious.

^ He's talking about the zeta beam incident where superman said to flash he was not as fast as light.

Superman is at least as fast as light, everyone knows that.

^ Not carver. He has spent years trying to convince everyone that superman's max speed is 2000 mps. Later he RELUCTANTLY admitted that space=lightspeed and his earth speed is 2000 mps tops. He also considers northstar and quicksilver to be FAR faster than superman. Just read some of his earlier posts around 2008-09, it's pure comedy gold.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^ He's talking about the zeta beam incident where superman said to flash he was not as fast as light.

lol. This is during the same series where the writers couldn't decide whether Aquaman only had very weak telepathy against non-sea life, or could give non-sea-life seizures.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^ Not carver. He has spent years trying to convince everyone that superman's max speed is 2000 mps. Later he RELUCTANTLY admitted that space=lightspeed and his earth speed is 2000 mps tops. He also considers northstar and quicksilver to be FAR faster than superman. Just read some of his earlier posts around 2008-09, it's pure comedy gold.

This is why carver will always be needed here. We need him to equalize h1a8's ridiculous claims that Superman is several magnitudes stronger than Thor.

And I'd rather have carver around than hia8. At least carver is good for a laugh while h1 is just plain annoying.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
This is why carver will always be needed here. We need him to equalize h1a8's ridiculous claims that Superman is several magnitudes stronger than Thor.

And I'd rather have carver around than hia8. At least carver is good for a laugh while h1 is just plain annoying.
You are actually right. I am a superman fan but I don't think he would win in every thread. I hate fanboys of any character be it Superman, hulk, thor etc. I think h1a8 would be very sad that even after all these years of trolling no one even remembers his actual screen name (everyone calls him hia8). And he IS annoying, damn annoying.