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here are my theories on this situation.

theory 1: if they're in a tournament. goku would win by pushing him out of the ring.

theory 2: if they're fighting to the death. superman would win. due to the fact that goku doesn't have superman's endurance. goku's ki would go down.

debate me.

.

This has been done to death.

Originally posted by emporerpants
This has been done to death.



BTW, Superman is massively stronger and faster than Goku.

/thread

Black hair Goku stomps.

He is faster, stronger, more durable, and overall, more powerful.

This will be closed soon.

Is this Pre Crisis Superman?
Also Goku is NOT much faster.
Goku is 1000+ times the speed of sound while Superman (Pre Crisis or not) can go Faster Than Light.

Superman wins. He's faster, stronger, more durable, and more experienced than Goku.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Superman wins. He's faster, stronger, more durable, and more experienced than Goku.

Exactly! I thought everyone if not most of the people on this forum should know this since the majority of this forum is very knowledgable about comics.

Superman beats Goku.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman beats Goku.

Woo Woo Woo You Know It!

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
Woo Woo Woo You Know It!

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/WWWYKI/ZackRyderDance.gif

is current superman a lot weaker? anyway I thought everyone had forgotten about this feud.

Originally posted by Trackz
is current superman a lot weaker? anyway I thought everyone had forgotten about this feud.

He's not packing the kinds of feats that pre reboot Superman had, so naturally it's not the same level of power we're talking about.

New Superman is a definite herald though, that's obvious enough already with the feats he's had.

Give DCnU Superman a few months, if even that, and I'd argue him over Goku, too.

What I don't get is when goku supporters claim super man supporters hate anime just because they say supes win? Do they really think that Goku is the most powerful character in all anime or something?

And no Carver's view doesn't count.

Originally posted by jalek moye
What I don't get is when goku supporters claim super man supporters hate anime just because they say supes win? Do they really think that Goku is the most powerful character in all anime or something?

And no Carver's view doesn't count.

Hell, I love DBZ, but the fact of the matter is that a sufficiently powerful comic book character has the stuff needed to beat them. I don't follow anime or manga outside of the Dragonball stuff, but even I know Goku isn't even close to being the most powerful character in his genre.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hell, I love DBZ, but the fact of the matter is that a sufficiently powerful comic book character has the stuff needed to beat them. I don't follow anime or manga outside of the Dragonball stuff, but even I know Goku isn't even close to being the most powerful character in his genre.

At his height of his power with the Dragon balls, he was def up there.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
At his height of his power with the Dragon balls, he was def up there.

u talking about that weird thing at the end of GT?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
At his height of his power with the Dragon balls, he was def up there.

Goku was never and will never be in the top 5 let alone 10 strongest anime characters of all time.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Goku was never and will never be in the top 5 let alone 10 strongest anime characters of all time.

doesnt goku have legit planet busting feats?

He has the means to bust planets with his chi attacks, yes.

That in of itself doesn't mean he beats Superman, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He has the means to bust planets with his chi attacks, yes.

That in of itself doesn't mean he beats Superman, though. Why cant he just bust superman with the same attack?

Several reasons, which should be apparent if you actually read Superman.

Or even just apply general logic to the issue.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Why cant he just bust superman with the same attack?

Because Superman has survived planets exploding. More than once.

Superman could also just dodge the blast.

Or punch Goku in the face while Goku charges the attack up for 3 episodes.

Or blast him with heat vision.

Or a combination of any of the above.

Or use the other options he has.

I thing Goku could beat Superman, but It would take a super saiyan 2 to do it.

Originally posted by Dr.Swole
I thing Goku could beat Superman, but It would take a super saiyan 2 to do it.

And how did you come to that conclusion?
Goku even in SSJ3 form only has Large Planetary destruction, Supposed Planetary Durabilty, Possible World shaking Dynamic force in Strength and Massively Hypersonic movement.

Superman especially Pre Crisis goes beyond all if not most of those feats especially in Speed, Durability and Strength.

Black hair Goku wins.

This isn't the proper thread for this battle to take place.

Originally posted by carver9
Black hair Goku wins.

This isn't the proper thread for this battle to take place.

You seem to be ignoring both Goku's and Superman's feats but still falsely claim Goku wins.
You're also one of the posters who got hammered down by Endless Mike on the Vegito vs Z thread.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
You seem to be ignoring both Goku's and Superman's feats but still falsely claim Goku wins.
You're also one of the posters who got hammered down by Endless Mike on the Vegito vs Z thread.


I'm not ignoring anything. I'm basing things off of average showings and average showings...Black Hair Goku kills Superman. If you lean on high showings, then this "somewhat" becomes a fight but average portrayal, Superman wouldnt last 3 panels against Goku. Superman is fast, especially due to flight but his combat speed doesn't compare to someone like Goku. Flying through space at light is all nice and dandy but that doesn't have a thing to do with someone as fast as Goku combat wise.

Superman have some impressive "lifting" fts as well and comparing them to Gokus, someone who doesn't have a single reason to even lift a pebble, Superman does have him beat. When we get to punching power...Goku during his early days fts surpass Superman by a long shot. Goku was punching at being fts away from him and the aftershock from his punches sent beings flying. That's just the minimum. Durability? Superman space fts of tanking blast is all nice and dandy as well but when facing opponents that main powers is blasting...its not as high as a lot of people would like to make it. People ranging from Doctor Poloris has Koed him with a blast and there are other instances of him being damaged by output of power. Goku has the power to drop him...hell, during his teen he was tossing around moon busting power. Superman has NEVER withstood a beating like Goku has. Superman has never tanked 3 planetary attacks in one fight...multiple nukes, numerous of high class 100 punches, having an island thrown on him, etc, etc...all in one fight without being koed. That has NEVER happened and again, this happened to beings far weaker and durable than Goku at Super Saiyan 1.

Does this not make Superman powerful because he would (along with any other Herald) get his neck snapped by Goku...no. He is just out of his league here.

By the way I agree with Mike about Z beating Goku. You have the wrong thread buddy.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm basing things off of average showings and average showings...Black Hair Goku kills Superman. If you lean on high showings, then this "somewhat" becomes a fight but average portrayal, Superman wouldnt last 3 panels against Goku. Superman is fast, especially due to flight but his combat speed doesn't compare to someone like Goku. Flying through space at light is all nice and dandy but that doesn't have a thing to do with someone as fast as Goku combat wise.

Superman have some impressive "lifting" fts as well and comparing them to Gokus, someone who doesn't have a single reason to even lift a pebble, Superman does have him beat. When we get to punching power...Goku during his early days fts surpass Superman by a long shot. Goku was punching at being fts away from him and the aftershock from his punches sent beings flying. That's just the minimum. Durability? Superman space fts of tanking blast is all nice and dandy as well but when facing opponents that main powers is blasting...its not as high as a lot of people would like to make it. People ranging from Doctor Poloris has Koed him with a blast and there are other instances of him being damaged by output of power. Goku has the power to drop him...hell, during his teen he was tossing around moon busting power. Superman has NEVER withstood a beating like Goku has. Superman has never tanked 3 planetary attacks in one fight...multiple nukes, numerous of high class 100 punches, having an island thrown on him, etc, etc...all in one fight without being koed. That has NEVER happened and again, this happened to beings far weaker and durable than Goku at Super Saiyan 1.

Does this not make Superman powerful because he would (along with any other Herald) get his neck snapped by Goku...no. He is just out of his league here.

By the way I agree with Mike about Z beating Goku. You have the wrong thread buddy.

Shit, meet the fan.

Carver, you're a liar. You've made it obvious on this board that you know jack shit about Superman, and what feats you do know of, you play down because of your incessant hatred for the character. So stop trolling.

Not once did I downplay Supes. I gave reasons why Goku would stomp him. You could put Hulk or Thor in the same position and I would say the same thing. Goku would kill Glads 10/10. This isnt just Superman, this is any herald.

You're doing it again.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You're doing it again.

What am I doing?

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm basing things off of average showings and average showings...Black Hair Goku kills Superman.

And by average showing you're talking about a Supes who is always holding back in fear of killing his opponent right??

Originally posted by carver9
Flying through space at light is all nice and dandy but that doesn't have a thing to do with someone as fast as Goku combat wise.

When we get to punching power...Goku during his early days fts surpass Superman by a long shot. Goku was punching at being fts away from him and the aftershock from his punches sent beings flying. That's just the minimum.

Superman has NEVER withstood a beating like Goku has. Superman has never tanked 3 planetary attacks in one fight...multiple nukes, numerous of high class 100 punches, having an island thrown on him, etc, etc...all in one fight without being koed.


1. Superman has dodged a punch from the Flash who is faster than light.
Has contained a supernova with his speed.

2. Superman has played baseball with the moon.

3. Superman has tanked a supernova.

Goku's way out of his league.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way I agree with Mike about Z beating Goku. You have the wrong thread buddy.

I was making a point.
You overestimated DBZ characters in that thread just like you are doing in this thread.

Salam Mr. 786SalamKhan

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
1. Superman has dodged a punch from the Flash who is faster than light.
Has contained a supernova with his speed.

2. Superman has played baseball with the moon.

3. Superman has tanked a supernova.

Goku's way out of his league.

When did all this happen? Show me.

Originally posted by carver9
Not once did I downplay Supes.
You said a high end Superman is only "somewhat" of a fight for Goku.

I thought you liked lowballing, but that is just an entirely new level of tomfoolery.

I was wondering where Carver went.

Now I know.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Salam Mr. 786SalamKhan

Hello to you too.

Originally posted by carver9
When did all this happen? Show me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP3JFr9lDfY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxDXh6xK5FI

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm basing things off of average showings and average showings...Black Hair Goku kills Superman.

I stopped right there because I know there's gonna be nothing but false mess right after that.

I'm also tired of that "average showing" mess. It's just another excuse to ignore Supes's much more superior feats to anything Goku has done.

Originally posted by carver9
Not once did I downplay Supes. I gave reasons why Goku would stomp him. You could put Hulk or Thor in the same position and I would say the same thing. Goku would kill Glads 10/10. This isnt just Superman, this is any herald.

Thor would be a worse opponent for Goku than Superman.

But Jake, how will Thor avoid falling asleep during the 9 episode stare down?

Originally posted by StyleTime
But Jake, how will Thor avoid falling asleep during the 9 episode stare down?

Thor would probably counter with overly long drawn out powering up and stare downs with his epic lines of over the top dialogue.

Originally posted by carver9
What am I doing?

Lowballing, ignoring feats, pretending you know anything about Superman.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP3JFr9lDfY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxDXh6xK5FI

Thats pre-crisis Superman bro. We only use current versions.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Thats pre-crisis Superman bro. We only use current versions.

My bad then

Superman is still much faster, plus he survived two planets being crashed onto him while in the middle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rds6aL_dW4

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor would probably counter with overly long drawn out powering up and stare downs with his epic lines of over the top dialogue.
carver9 will be in shortly with Goku's combat speech feats.

Unfortunately for Goku by the time he said "Kame....ha......me...." Superman would already have landed shots on him. Goku just takes to long to do anything. He grunted and strained for like 5 minutes to get to ssj3. Superman wouldn't give him that window of opportunity. Especially not if he got his with some of his KI blasts.

Originally posted by StyleTime
But Jake, how will Thor avoid falling asleep during the 9 episode stare down? To be fair, that is largely only present in the anime.

For example, in the anime, the longest transformation sequence was Trunks going USSJ I believe.

Took over an episode, at least, in the anime.

It was a page at best in the manga.

Though yeah, Superman or Thor would crush Goku easily. He simply lacks the physical stats to compare, and Thor has a huge versatility advantage.

Yeah, I exaggerated the 9 episode stare down thing; however, being reasonable is not nearly as funny. uhuh

Goku wins this in a stomp. By the way...Goku can transform immediately...it doesn't take time for him.

Goku is faster, stronger, more durable, and FAR more powerful.

This isn't a fight for Superman.

Still waiting for those feats.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku wins this in a stomp. By the way...Goku can transform immediately...it doesn't take time for him.

Goku is faster, stronger, more durable, and FAR more powerful.

This isn't a fight for Superman.

*still waits for proof*

I provided proof a long time ago. Me and you have also went over this and it got tiresome. Pr...we discussed this a while back via PM, can't believe you forgot this.

Originally posted by carver9
I provided proof a long time ago. Me and you have also went over this and it got tiresome. Pr...we discussed this a while back via PM, can't believe you forgot this.

I didn't forget; I'm still waiting for you to show me more than some blurry fights.

Carver, Provide feats or admit defeat for Goku.

Post Crisis Superman is not as tough as the Silver Age one but he's still survived a star going nova and he held a black hole with his bare hands without being sucked into it. There's nothing anyone in Dragon Ball could do to actually hurt him plus he's also massively stronger and faster than them.

In short, Supes solos DBZ.

Originally posted by stargun
Post Crisis Superman is not as tough as the Silver Age one but he's still survived a star going nova and he held a black hole with his bare hands without being sucked into it. There's nothing anyone in Dragon Ball could do to actually hurt him plus he's also massively stronger and faster than them.

In short, Supes solos DBZ.

The black hole was contained and the sun that went nova was a yellow sun. To think that a DBZ character is incapable of koing Superman is INSANE. Is Superman powerful...he sure the hell is but he ISN'T Goku, Frieza, Vegeta, powerful.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
Carver, Provide feats or admit defeat for Goku.

What is it you want to see?

Originally posted by carver9
The black hole was contained and the sun that went nova was a yellow sun. To think that a DBZ character is incapable of koing Superman is INSANE. Is Superman powerful...he sure the hell is but he ISN'T Goku, Frieza, Vegeta, powerful.

He helped contain the black hole, and... so? It wasn't like it amped him.

Originally posted by carver9
What is it you want to see?

What is it that you're talking about?
You claimed Goku can beat Superman, prove it!

What if Superman goes Super Kryptonian, Carver? What happens when he begins doing all of his absurd over the top crap that's Kal's bread and butter?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What if Superman goes Super Kryptonian, Carver? What happens when he begins doing all of his absurd over the top crap that's Kal's bread and butter? Goku can blast superman to death before he even reacts

No, he can't.

See how easy that is?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Goku can blast superman to death before he even reacts

With what? A Spirit Bomb that takes forever to charge? Or a Kamehameha wave that needs to be charged for maximum power?

The Spirit Bomb wouldn't hurt Superman would it? Sense he's pure heart and all.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
The Spirit Bomb wouldn't hurt Superman would it? Sense he's pure heart and all.

Correct.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
With what? A Spirit Bomb that takes forever to charge? Or a Kamehameha wave that needs to be charged for maximum power?

A casual wave of his hands a couple of hundreds of times per second with nuclear blast following these should outright drop Superman. You better not come to me saying that it takes much more because I promise I will use that argument against you (in the Comic vs forum). Or his combat speed alone throwing numerous of high end class 100 punches should suffice as well. Superman isnt use to fighting someone like Goku, someone that CONSISTENTLY use his speed during combat with a combination of martial art, blast, and super strength.

Goku would run through 90% of Superman Rogue or people that has given Superman trouble. This isn't debatable at all.

Originally posted by carver9
A casual wave of his hands a couple of hundreds of times per second with nuclear blast following these should outright drop Superman. You better not come to me saying that it takes much more because I promise I will use that argument against you (in the Comic vs forum). Or his combat speed alone throwing numerous of high end class 100 punches should suffice as well. Superman isnt use to fighting someone like Goku, someone that CONSISTENTLY use his speed during combat with a combination of martial art, blast, and super strength.

Goku would run through 90% of Superman Rogue or people that has given Superman trouble. This isn't debatable at all.

Hundreds of times per second? I'd love to see you quantify that and prove it. Superman can dodge lasers and other projectiles if he's using his speed. He can even perform the vaunted afterimage trick and phase through shit at his absolute best.

You can't prove he's stronger than Superman, more durable, smarter, faster, or anything else outside of boasting greater energy output and skill in terms of hand to hand.

Goku can't beat Superman. Accept it and move on with some dignity.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hundreds of times per second? I'd love to see you quantify that and prove it. Superman can dodge lasers and other projectiles if he's using his speed. He can even perform the vaunted afterimage trick and phase through shit at his absolute best.

You can't prove he's stronger than Superman, more durable, smarter, faster, or anything else outside of boasting greater energy output and skill in terms of hand to hand.

Goku can't beat Superman. Accept it and move on with some dignity.

So Superman can dodge blasts that has made it to the moon in seconds? If so, provide proof. Cell absorbed an entire city worth of people in some seconds...and this was cell at his first form...yes, Goku can perform what I've said.

Goku fight against Frieza and what he went through and survived is proof enough to me.

I agree, Superman probably could dodge lasers...to bad Goku blasts were faster. Do you remember during the Frieza Saga when Frieza went to his final form? Frieza was shooting blasts from his hands that were unseen by Saiyan eye. The blasts were basically invisible. That's faster than any laser imo and Goku was dodging these same blasts with ease.

Strength...I agree, Supermans lifting fts are better. Goku doesn't go around lifting buildings and moving tanks...its unanime like. Goku punching fts are more impressive which is the key objective in this fight.

Durability...Superman has some nice space cheese fts but his average isn't tanking what Goku can dish out. Nappa could damage him badly just by lifting his two fingers and to say otherwise is being insane. Roshi can hurt him as well. Goku has the potential to kill him if it came to it (even though he won't do it). To say that Goku attacks won't work Superman is ignoring both character history.

Speed...like I've said before...Superman never faced anything that fights like Goku. He would get overwhelmed and would have to change his entire way of fighting in order to even dream about landing a glancing blow on Goku. Superman just doesn't fight like Goku. Hell, Krillin and Roshi AT THEIR WEAKEST, performed an entire martial arts tourney in less than a second. Superman is good but he ain't that good. You would have to find some of Superman BEST speed fts in order for someone sane to think he could stand up to Goku and even then its debatable. Superman being lightning fast and catching bullets is things Goku was doing as a child. Like I've stated...Superman is good but Goku is on another level.

Power output...this isn't even debatable.

Superman have no advantages. The only one he truly have is lifting fts but that isn't enough. The only time we truly seen Goku cut loose was during the time he was on planet Ki and they laid WASTE to that planet.

Professional writers has also made this fight and Superman got one shotted.

I love how your ignorance about Superman is what makes you believe he'd lose.

lol.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I love how your ignorance about Superman is what makes you believe he'd lose.

No ignorance at all. For me to believe Goku wouldn't outright STOMP Gladiator, I would have to take his highest fts and use it as something relevant in a fight against Goku (which would be him tanking a Solar System destroying blast). In order for me to believe that Gladiator can stomp Superman or Thor, I would have to take his highest showings to face value. On average, it ain't happening just like on average, Superman isnt tanking or withstanding what Goku can dish out in some seconds.

Goku as a kid at the age of 7 was dishing and walking around with the power to destroy moons. Goku in his teens was a planetary level threat...Goku as an adult was matching a being that was destroying planets with his index finger (at .025% of his power) and this was a weaker form of Goku. Goku at his prime...no telling what he was capable of. Weaker characters were lifting their hands, creating blasts that were leveling continents with a blast radius that was seen on the outskirt of space.

With all the power Superman, Thor, Gladiator, Hulk, and whoever else have...they can't win this. You would have to use them at the peak of their performance to even suggest they stand a chance.

Originally posted by carver9
No ignorance at all. For me to believe Goku wouldn't outright STOMP Gladiator, I would have to take his highest fts and use it as something relevant in a fight against Goku (which would be him tanking a Solar System destroying blast). In order for me to believe that Gladiator can stomp Superman or Thor, I would have to take his highest showings to face value. On average, it ain't happening just like on average, Superman isnt tanking or withstanding what Goku can dish out in some seconds.

Goku as a kid at the age of 7 was dishing and walking around with the power to destroy moons. Goku in his teens was a planetary level threat...Goku as an adult was matching a being that was destroying planets with his index finger (at .025% of his power) and this was a weaker form of Goku. Goku at his prime...no telling what he was capable of. Weaker characters were lifting their hands, creating blasts that were leveling continents with a blast radius that was seen on the outskirt of space.

With all the power Superman, Thor, Gladiator, Hulk, and whoever else have...they can't win this. You would have to use them at the peak of their performance to even suggest they stand a chance.

What has Gladiator got to do with anything?

Is any of that actually true?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Is any of that actually true?

Yes, it is true. Dragonball characters have ridiculous raw power output. They severely lack in speed, strength, and durability compared to the likes of Superman though.

While very fast and capable of flight, they are well below lightspeed. They have almost nothing in the way of lifting feats, but they probably max out around large rock-ish. Their physical durability is along those lines. Oh and their energy-based attacks are relatively slow. They can be dodged.

So I would definitely consider them to be below most heralds in comics. Superman is fast and strong enough to punch a hole in Goku before Goku would realize the fight had begun.

Really it's just a bad powerset matchup, rather than Superman > Goku.

Originally posted by Cogito
Yes, it is true. Dragonball characters have ridiculous raw power output. They severely lack in speed, strength, and durability compared to the likes of Superman though.

While very fast and capable of flight, they are well below lightspeed. They have almost nothing in the way of lifting feats, but they probably max out around large rock-ish. Their physical durability is along those lines. Oh and their energy-based attacks are relatively slow. They can be dodged.

So I would definitely consider them to be below most heralds in comics. Superman is fast and strong enough to punch a hole in Goku before Goku would realize the fight had begun.

Really it's just a bad powerset matchup, rather than Superman > Goku.

All of this is a lie except the part where you agreed with me. Goku and Frieza was pretty much similar during the time the fought and Frieza withstood 100's if not THOUSANDS of high class 100 punches. He withstood a kamehameha wave that was 20 times in power than his blast that was used against Vegeta that had enough power to shed a planet...he withstood the spirit bomb that was powered by Nameks solar System and he also withstood a planet exploding on him....withstood numerous of nuclear attacks...punched through mountains, etc, etc...all of this happened ONE FIGHT. DBZ characters durability is INSANE and its retarded to think Superman could take them out with a single punch.

Goku kicked Frieza with a punch that shook planet Namek and this was Goku at his base form. They CAN hurt Superman with their fist.

Lol at their blast being slow. Where did you get that from? Picollo blew up a moon and the blast made it there in one panel. If you are basing this off of the anime...they slow the fights and blasts down so that we can see what's going on.

Stop underating these characters. Goku at his weakest is a high Herald.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku kicked Frieza with a punch He kicked him with a punch guys.

Originally posted by Ban Mido
He kicked him with a punch guys.

Lol...dang I was hoping no one caught that. I tried to edit it but the 10 minute time frame passed. That's a free joke.

Originally posted by carver9
Stop underating these characters. Goku at his weakest is a high Herald.

High Herald???

Typical Herald - level abilities include:

- Able to destroy planets and stars
- Degree of cosmic awareness (ability to perceive the happenings of the universe)
- Usually a good degree of matter/energy manipulation (such as transmutation)
- Faster Than Light speed travel
- Some limited level of Time Travel/Manipulation

For DBZ:

-Planets, yes. Stars, no.
-Goku ain't that smart, King Kai tells him about happenings in the Universe.
-Energy Manipulation, yes.
-Hell no, Goku is only 1000+ times the speed of sound whereas Lightspeed is more than 800,000+ times.
-No!

Goku is a Low Herald at best dude.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
High Herald???

Typical Herald - level abilities include:

- Able to destroy planets and stars
- Degree of cosmic awareness (ability to perceive the happenings of the universe)
- Usually a good degree of matter/energy manipulation (such as transmutation)
- Faster Than Light speed travel
- Some limited level of Time Travel/Manipulation

For DBZ:

-Planets, yes. Stars, no.
-Goku ain't that smart, King Kai tells him about happenings in the Universe.
-Energy Manipulation, yes.
-Hell no, Goku is only 1000+ times the speed of sound whereas Lightspeed is more than 800,000+ times.
-No!

Goku is a Low Herald at best dude.

Lol...that's not the qualifications of being a high Herald. Majority of those powers, only Surfer is capable of doing. Doomsday is a trans level being and he doesnt have not one of those under his power level. Mangog is a trans level being and he basically punch and kick.

Goku isn't book smart but his combat smart has no comparison. He IS the greatest fighter in the Universe.

How would we know if Goku is incapable of destroying Stars? He would never try. Akira stated that Super Saiyan 1 Goku can destroy 15 planets with one blast...that alone is enough to put him at skyfather levels.

Goku is much faster than 1000+ the speed of sound and the only being that I can think of (minus Goku) that has actually fought at light speed is the Flashes.

Nappa at best is a low Herald. Nappa can wave his hand and kill everyone in the high meta tier.

Originally posted by carver9
Akira stated that Super Saiyan 1 Goku can destroy 15 planets with one blast...that alone is enough to put him at skyfather levels.

Joe Casey said that nothing short of Classic Beyonder could have defeated Superman under his pen. That shits on skyfather levels.

Good thing we don't cling to writer statements without proof, right?

Originally posted by carver9
Akira stated that Super Saiyan 1 Goku can destroy 15 planets with one blast...that alone is enough to put him at skyfather levels.


Bravo Bravo, where did you get the quote from?
One of Akira's many unrecorded interviews?

Too bad Ki blasts usually only make Nuke type explosions on Earth even in the Buu Saga.

Originally posted by carver9
How would we know if Goku is incapable of destroying Stars? He would never try.

He's not, even the TOEI Animation proved that.
The Sun is overkill for any DBZ character anyway.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Joe Casey said that nothing short of Classic Beyonder could have defeated Superman under his pen. That shits on skyfather levels.

Good thing we don't cling to writer statements without proof, right?

It wasn't in a interview though...it was something that was stated in the manga by Bibidi. Akira just gave the statement a thumbs up. I posted the scan in the "off topic thread".

Originally posted by carver9
It wasn't in a interview though...it was something that was stated in the manga by Bibidi. Akira just gave the statement a thumbs up. I posted the scan in the "off topic thread".

Have you ever read a Superman comic penned by Casey?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Have you ever read a Superman comic penned by Casey?

Yeah and I know where you are going with this. The difference is...people that Goku are equal to in power has thrown casual blast with just the wave of his hands capable of destroying planets. Someone equal in power to Goku has screamed and his voice was (this is about to be lame) causing planetary destruction. They have the proof that shows they can destroy multiple of planets with one blast, Goku just wouldn't do it because he is basically Superman mentally. He would kills himself before taking a life.

Originally posted by carver9
All of this is a lie except the part where you agreed with me. Goku and Frieza was pretty much similar during the time the fought and Frieza withstood 100's if not THOUSANDS of high class 100 punches. He withstood a kamehameha wave that was 20 times in power than his blast that was used against Vegeta that had enough power to shed a planet...he withstood the spirit bomb that was powered by Nameks solar System and he also withstood a planet exploding on him....withstood numerous of nuclear attacks...punched through mountains, etc, etc...all of this happened ONE FIGHT. DBZ characters durability is INSANE and its retarded to think Superman could take them out with a single punch.

Goku kicked Frieza with a punch that shook planet Namek and this was Goku at his base form. They CAN hurt Superman with their fist.

Lol at their blast being slow. Where did you get that from? Picollo blew up a moon and the blast made it there in one panel. If you are basing this off of the anime...they slow the fights and blasts down so that we can see what's going on.

Stop underating these characters. Goku at his weakest is a high Herald.

Everything I said was true. I'm not going to dispute DBZ character's energy durability, which is why I made a specific point of saying "physical durability". They can, and have, been hurt by physical force projectiles.

I'm not stupid enough to base speed off of the anime. I based the speed of energy attacks on the fact that DBZ characters are much below lightspeed, and they can dodge them.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah and I know where you are going with this. The difference is...people that Goku are equal to in power has thrown casual blast with just the wave of his hands capable of destroying planets. Someone equal in power to Goku has screamed and his voice was (this is about to be lame) causing planetary destruction. They have the proof that shows they can destroy multiple of planets with one blast, Goku just wouldn't do it because he is basically Superman mentally. He would kills himself before taking a life.

That's not really a difference, if you knew about Superman's peers.

Originally posted by Cogito
Everything I said was true. I'm not going to dispute DBZ character's energy durability, which is why I made a specific point of saying "physical durability". They can, and have, been hurt by physical force projectiles.

I'm not stupid enough to base speed off of the anime. I based the speed of energy attacks on the fact that DBZ characters are much below lightspeed, and they can dodge them.

I never said they were invincible...they can be hurt by their peers just like any character can be hurt by their peers BUT, no one has withstood a beating like Goku has in a single fight...no one.

I will post a page on here soon. A guy went through the time to make an entire section involving anime and its pretty much on point about their speed.

Goku as a child as light speed showings unless you forgot the scene where he outpace Tiens solar flare (which is basically solar energy emitted from his body), ran to Roshi, grabbed Roshis glasses, put them on and ran back to the spot where he was before. He did all of this before the solar flare even touched him. That's a light speed ft.

DBZ attacks aren't slow.

carver9 is still ignoring the fact that Goku's blasts only make nuke type explosions and DBZ characters get owned by the Sun.
Superman could just use his heat vision.
LOL It's funny how carver9 claimed Akira Toryama himself "stated" 15 planets then says it was Bibidi(?) from the manga.
Wait, I thought Bibidi was Babidi's father and did not know Goku.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku as a child as light speed showings unless you forgot the scene where he outpace Tiens solar flare (which is basically solar energy emitted from his body), ran to Roshi, grabbed Roshis glasses, put them on and ran back to the spot where he was before. He did all of this before the solar flare even touched him. That's a light speed ft.

Well then it's funny how lightspeed would travel Earth's circumference 7 times in 1 second while DBZ characters at max speed take several minutes to seconds travelling the Earth's Circumference once or a few.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
Well then it's funny how lightspeed would travel Earth's circumference 7 times in 1 second while DBZ characters at max speed take several minutes to seconds travelling the Earth's Circumference once or a few.

Who said anything about them flying at light and if they flew at light, wouldnt it destroy the planet? I said they COMBAT at light and they CAN combat at speeds greater than light.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
carver9 is still ignoring the fact that Goku's blasts only make nuke type explosions and DBZ characters get owned by the Sun.
Superman could just use his heat vision.
LOL It's funny how carver9 claimed Akira Toryama himself "stated" 15 planets then says it was Bibidi(?) from the manga.
Wait, I thought Bibidi was Babidi's father and did not know Goku.

Lol...where did you get that the sun hurt DBZ characters? Goku was directly at the sun when his space ship went off course while traveling to Namek. The flames were touching him and it did no damage at all. Heat vision isn't stopping Goku.

Like I told you before, I posted the scan in the off topic thread. Bloodrain was the one that gave it to me.

Lol at Goku only being capable of making Nuke like explosions when we have a character that is millions of Times less powerful than Goku blowing up the moon with a casual blast. Lol at Goku only being able to make Nuke like explosion when we have a character millions of times less powerful than Goku raising his hands, destroying a freaking Continent. Lol at Goku only being able to destroy a continent when we have someone that is millions of times less powerful than him using .025% of his power shedding a planet with his index finger that was twice the size of Earth. Lol at Goku only being able to make Nuke like explosions when he redirected/over powered Vegitas blast that was capable of destroying Earth and his used his own blast to do this and this was Goku AT HIS WEAKEST. You are clearly low balling and you clearly have no knowledge of the characters. Get out of here with all your nonsense and pick up a DBZ comic.

Superman's heat vision can achieve temperatures much hotter than the sun.

But you knew that already, right?

Originally posted by carver9
You are clearly low balling and you clearly have no knowledge of the characters. Get out of here with all your nonsense and pick up a DBZ comic.
That is hilarious coming from you. Your entire argument revolves around ignoring anything that suggests Superman's superiority over Goku.

You do realize that don't you?

This is getting sad...reading this thread is an exercise in feeling embarrassment vicariously through carver. This thread died out years ago for a reason. Superman stomps, and anyone with a working understanding of logic can see that. Goku is powerful, but his power set just doesn't work against Supes. No offense intended Carver, but you still think that Goku is the most powerful unfused character in DBZ, which he is not. Chou Gohan is, who also loses badly to Supes.

Black hair Goku wins.

Originally posted by StyleTime
That is hilarious coming from you. Your entire argument revolves around ignoring anything that suggests Superman's superiority over Goku.

You do realize that don't you?

I haven't ignored anything.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...where did you get that the sun hurt DBZ characters? Goku was directly at the sun when his space ship went off course while traveling to Namek. The flames were touching him and it did no damage at all. Heat vision isn't stopping Goku.

Like I told you before, I posted the scan in the off topic thread. Bloodrain was the one that gave it to me.

Lol at Goku only being capable of making Nuke like explosions when we have a character that is millions of Times less powerful than Goku blowing up the moon with a casual blast. Lol at Goku only being able to make Nuke like explosion when we have a character millions of times less powerful than Goku raising his hands, destroying a freaking Continent. Lol at Goku only being able to destroy a continent when we have someone that is millions of times less powerful than him using .025% of his power shedding a planet with his index finger that was twice the size of Earth. Lol at Goku only being able to make Nuke like explosions when he redirected/over powered Vegitas blast that was capable of destroying Earth and his used his own blast to do this and this was Goku AT HIS WEAKEST. You are clearly low balling and you clearly have no knowledge of the characters. Get out of here with all your nonsense and pick up a DBZ comic.

Funny thing is that I've been watching DBZ ever since I was 4 so don't assume I'm not a fan myself.
I was refering to Goku and Goku only when I mentioned Nuke type explosions.
Vegeta's blast was not capable of destroying Earth ,there is no proof and even if it was it was Goku's Kaioken x3 Kamehameha wave that countered the Gallick Gun NOT a regular Ki blast.
And please provide a scan of Goku touching the Sun because even Toei Animations DBZ characters can't withstand the sun as proven with Broly and Cooler.
So Goku moving to get Roshi's sunglasses isn't a form of movement but combat?
Stop being ignorant or GTFO with your nonsense!

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
Funny thing is that I've been watching DBZ ever since I was 4 so don't assume I'm not a fan myself.
I was refering to Goku and Goku only when I mentioned Nuke type explosions.
Vegeta's blast was not capable of destroying Earth ,there is no proof and even if it was it was Goku's Kaioken x3 Kamehameha wave that countered the Gallick Gun NOT a regular Ki blast.
And please provide a scan of Goku touching the Sun because even Toei Animations DBZ characters can't withstand the sun as proven with Broly and Cooler.
So Goku moving to get Roshi's sunglasses isn't a form of movement but combat?
Stop being ignorant or GTFO with your nonsense!

I never said that you never watched the show but what I am saying is that "you don't know what you are talking about".

Goku was at the sun while heading to Namek. He saved his ship by kamehameha blasting away from it.

Goku blast are more powerful than a Nuke. Just because the planet doesn't explode from every blast doesn't mean that it makes Goku blast less powerful than planetary. These beings have complete control over their Ki...they can turn it into a nuke like explosion or they can make it a concentrated blast which is used as a piercing blast against their durability. This ranges from Piccolo special beam cannon to the destructo disk, to Frieza finger blast to whatever else. They don't always have to blow up a planet...their control of their power/Ki is off the charts and you would know this if you actually looked at the show.

Second...you would also have known this if you looked at the show. Tien and Goku are standing in the ring fighting. Tien used the solar flare on Goku...solar energy. Goku see the energy coming his way and knows that if it tags him, he will be blind which would leave him open for an attack by Tien (remember, solar energy is faster than light)...Goku preventing this from happening runs off (outpacing FTL energy), grabs Roshi Glasses, put the glasses on and run back in front of Tien before the attack even touches him. That's FTL and he did that as a child. You asked for a FTL ft from Goku...so I gave it to you.

This is part of the ft.




http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m156/kinasin/250661-goku_dodges_taiyoken1_super.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m156/kinasin/250663-goku_dodges_taiyoken_2_super.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m156/kinasin/250664-goku_dodges_taiyoken_3_super.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m156/kinasin/250665-goku_dodges_taiyoken_4_super.jpg

Right he couldn't have possibly taken the sunglasses before Tien used the Kaiyoken.

It is much more reasonable to assume he is faster than light, especially since SSJ Gotenks has been clocked at mach 1,000 at best.

Originally posted by carver9
This is part of the ft.

Um just because it's Solar doesn't mean it's lightspeed.
By your logic many if not nearly every Pokemon should be FTL too.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said that you never watched the show but what I am saying is that "you don't know what you are talking about".

Goku was at the sun while heading to Namek. He saved his ship by kamehameha blasting away from it.

Goku blast are more powerful than a Nuke. Just because the planet doesn't explode from every blast doesn't mean that it makes Goku blast less powerful than planetary. These beings have complete control over their Ki...they can turn it into a nuke like explosion or they can make it a concentrated blast which is used as a piercing blast against their durability. This ranges from Piccolo special beam cannon to the destructo disk, to Frieza finger blast to whatever else. They don't always have to blow up a planet...their control of their power/Ki is off the charts and you would know this if you actually looked at the show.

Second...you would also have known this if you looked at the show. Tien and Goku are standing in the ring fighting. Tien used the solar flare on Goku...solar energy. Goku see the energy coming his way and knows that if it tags him, he will be blind which would leave him open for an attack by Tien (remember, solar energy is faster than light)...Goku preventing this from happening runs off (outpacing FTL energy), grabs Roshi Glasses, put the glasses on and run back in front of Tien before the attack even touches him. That's FTL and he did that as a child. You asked for a FTL ft from Goku...so I gave it to you.

The point is during every fight they're trying to hurt their oponent so when they shoot the Ki blast and they miss they can change the direction of the Ki blast but NOT how powerful it is, they already concentrated the energy before blasting it.

LOL It could easily be simulation of light using the Sun's energy and not rays of sun itself.
I used a Pokemon reference in my above post(not paragraph) because there is a move in Pokemon called Solar Beam and it is dodgable.

The anime is not actually canon.

I am just saying.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
The point is during every fight they're trying to hurt their oponent so when they shoot the Ki blast and they miss they can change the direction of the Ki blast but NOT how powerful it is, they already concentrated the energy before blasting it.

LOL It could easily be simulation of light using the Sun's energy and not rays of sun itself.
I used a Pokemon reference in my above post(not paragraph) because there is a move in Pokemon called Solar Beam and it is dodgable.

The point is, every blast doesn't have to be planetary because if that was the case, Surfer would destroy a planet every time he fought someone. Goku has complete control of his power and him not destroying a planet with every attack doesn't mean that the attack is less than planetary. Goku fist did more to Frieza than the planet Namek blowing up on him. Your argument is moot and saying that Goku can only throw nukes when it has been referenced by true power readers that he can destroy a planet is just outright ignoring the character. Planet destruction is child's play for someone like Goku, even at his weakest. If Roshi, a guy that is millions of Times more weaker than Goku can lay waste to a moon, do you honestly believe he is more powerful than Goku, someone that could tank that moon attack with a smile on his face and dish out something far more powerful? Use that noggin.

Lol..the solar flare is light speed. It's solar energy being emmited from the "Z" fighters body. Goku outpaced this. It can't get any clearer than this. It's a FTL feat. Accept it and move on.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
Um just because it's Solar doesn't mean it's lightspeed.
By your logic many if not nearly every Pokemon should be FTL too.

It's solar energy...he outpaced it. No matter how much you don't like it, it happened. If a pokemon outranned solar energy then that means that they can run at light. Its that simple.

Not all solar flares are lightspeed.

Unless the one in the manga/anime was stated to be?

Yeah, Solar flares are matter being ejected from the Sun and therefore they can't be light speed. According to wikipedia the average velocity is 489 m/s which, while fast, is far slower than light.

Edit: As for the scan above that isn't actually a solar flare. The dude is just giving off light or solar energy whatever you want to call it. Of course, solar energy being FTL is complete nonsense that makes no sense what-so-ever. Furthermore, I'm unsure how this prooves anything as Goku doesn't need to outpace Tien's light beams but simply know that that the move is coming and grab the glasses before Tien lights up like a light bulb. And since the scan doesn't show Goke without the glasses after the move is used we can't say he didn't do the latter. Meaning it's impossible to use this scan to proove Goku is FTL.

Originally posted by ares834
Yeah, Solar flares are matter being ejected from the Sun and therefore they can't be light speed. According to wikipedia the average velocity is 489 m/s which, while fast, is far slower than light.

Edit: As for the scan above that isn't actually a solar flare. The dude is just giving off light or solar energy whatever you want to call it. Of course, solar energy being FTL is complete nonsense that makes no sense what-so-ever. Furthermore, I'm unsure how this prooves anything as Goku doesn't need to outpace Tien's light beams but simply know that that the move is coming and grab the glasses before Tien lights up like a light bulb. And since the scan doesn't show Goke without the glasses after the move is used we can't say he didn't do the latter. Meaning it's impossible to use this scan to proove Goku is FTL.

The panel before Tien does that move shows Goku standing there. Goku didn't have the shades.

The comparison of the solar energy from the sun and the solar flare has been stated in the manga when the move was first done. It's basically the rays from the sun being transferred through the Z fighters body. It's a light speed ft.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not all solar flares are lightspeed.

Unless the one in the manga/anime was stated to be?

It's solar energy and solar energy is light speed.

Originally posted by carver9
It's solar energy and solar energy is light speed.

Not really.

What kind of solar energy?

Solar energy is a broad description, not a classification.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not really.

What kind of solar energy?

Solar energy is a broad description, not a classification.

It's energy from the sun that is being repelled from their body in the form of an attack to blind their opponents.

I think people on both sides are underestimating each character...there have been plenty of instances in which Superman has been taken out by attacks that Goku could dish out...at his peak though he wins. Goku would definitely pose a threat, as many speed feats as superman has, he really isn't used to characters who use their speed with the skill and aptitude that Goku does. Superman wins 7/10.

Originally posted by carver9
It's energy from the sun that is being repelled from their body in the form of an attack to blind their opponents.

And what proof have you that it's C or FTL?

Originally posted by carver9
I haven't ignored anything.
All right, real talk dude. How the **** can you say that?

You explicitly dismissed Superman's feats as "space cheese", a concept reserved for characters with relatively equal feats at multiple levels. I don't always agree with the concept, but I can sympathize in some situations. Clearly, this isn't one of those situations. In this particular instance, you're just covering your ears to rebuttals; Goku can't match several things from Superman, so you dismiss and downplay.

Poster: *insert durability feat for Superman that is superior to something from Goku*

carver9: First off, it's not combat durability. Second off, Goku stomps.

This is why these threads wind up with like this. We cover the same stuff every time and every time you stick your fingers in your ears.

carver9: "Goku can't counter that, so the feat is BS. Black hair Goku stomps the Justice League. Deal with it."

I'm not even sure how I got pulled in here. Usually, I just laugh from the sidelines. At least before, I thought you just liked messing people; however, you stated that Superman operating at his highest is "somewhat" of a fight for Goku. You still don't understand that twisted interpretations of already vague material is not "evidence" for anything. Your argument hinges on a neutered Superman fighting some amped up version of Goku you dreamed up.

Originally posted by carver9
The point is, every blast doesn't have to be planetary because if that was the case, Surfer would destroy a planet every time he fought someone. Goku has complete control of his power and him not destroying a planet with every attack doesn't mean that the attack is less than planetary. Goku fist did more to Frieza than the planet Namek blowing up on him. Your argument is moot and saying that Goku can only throw nukes when it has been referenced by true power readers that he can destroy a planet is just outright ignoring the character. Planet destruction is child's play for someone like Goku, even at his weakest. If Roshi, a guy that is millions of Times more weaker than Goku can lay waste to a moon, do you honestly believe he is more powerful than Goku, someone that could tank that moon attack with a smile on his face and dish out something far more powerful? Use that noggin.

Lol..the solar flare is light speed. It's solar energy being emmited from the "Z" fighters body. Goku outpaced this. It can't get any clearer than this. It's a FTL feat. Accept it and move on.

And yet again I was refering to Ki BLASTS if you've actually read my posts not Goku's more powerful techniques like Kamehameha or Genki Dama.

Yeah Solar Energy being emitted from a Human body and not from the sun is definately lightspeed right?

Originally posted by carver9
Use that noggin.

I suggest you use yours because at least I don't outragously claim that Goku can destroy 15 PLANETS with a SINGLE BLAST.

SSJ3 Goku most likely has Kid Buu's destructive capabilities which is being able to completely vaporise a planet.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not really.

What kind of solar energy?

Solar energy is a broad description, not a classification.

It appears to be nothing more than light ergo light speed. If it was actually plasma things would be burning up and people wouldn't simply be blinded. Truthfully, all energy travels at the speed of light (Plasma isn't a form of energy but of matter).

Still, that doesn't mean Goku has to be FTL he could have grabbed the glasses in the time it take Tien to use the move.

Originally posted by StyleTime
All right, real talk dude. How the **** can you say that?

You explicitly dismissed Superman's feats as "space cheese", a concept reserved for characters with relatively equal feats at multiple levels. I don't always agree with the concept, but I can sympathize in some situations. Clearly, this isn't one of those situations. In this particular instance, you're just covering your ears to rebuttals; Goku can't match several things from Superman, so you dismiss and downplay.

Poster: *insert durability feat for Superman that is superior to something from Goku*

carver9: First off, it's not combat durability. Second off, Goku stomps.

This is why these threads wind up with like this. We cover the same stuff every time and every time you stick your fingers in your ears.

carver9: "Goku can't counter that, so the feat is BS. Black hair Goku stomps the Justice League. Deal with it."

I'm not even sure how I got pulled in here. Usually, I just laugh from the sidelines. At least before, I thought you just liked messing people; however, you stated that Superman operating at his highest is "somewhat" of a fight for Goku. You still don't understand that twisted interpretations of already vague material is not "evidence" for anything. Your argument hinges on a neutered Superman fighting some amped up version of Goku you dreamed up.

I didnt ignore anything. What I said was "if we use Superman, Thor, Gladiator, etc, etc... at their average portrayal, they do not stand a chance against Goku.

What I also said is, Anime characters doesn't go around lifting buildings, its not part of their character. I said that Superman have Goku beat by lifting fts but punching power, Goku has him beat. Spiderman has Goku beat using lifting fts. It's not what Goku does. He only have a few fts in that category.

You would have to completely ignore everything from both characters to suggest Goku can't beat Superman. EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan
And yet again I was refering to Ki BLASTS if you've actually read my posts not Goku's more powerful techniques like Kamehameha or Genki Dama.

Yeah Solar Energy being emitted from a Human body and not from the sun is definately lightspeed right?

So basically you are telling me that Picollo at a power level of 350 should have fought Frieza instead of Goku at a power level in the millions since a Picollo at a level of 350 destroyed a moon with a casual blast? Is this what you are telling me? Piccolo at 350 is >>>>>>> Goku at a PL in the millions since you've stated Goku only shoot Nuke like explosions.

Gotcha.

Goku is stronger than Supes you say? and yet....


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4904/360809mw1mk5.gif


Tell me again about how much stronger Goku is than Superman.

Here we have quantifiable proof of what Goku's strength is, and it isn't even close to Superman. Even if he goes ssj3, his increases in strength won't put him anywhere NEAR Superman.

A much better contest would be......................A DANCE OFF!!! to this song!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R6waNyDGQc

Who getS served first? Superman or Goku?!?!? CAN THE KRYPTONIAN CAPE SHUFFLE OVERCOME THE SUPER SAIYAN STUTTER STEP?!?! The ultimate question is answered next time on DRAGON BALL Z!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by carver9
So basically you are telling me that Picollo at a power level of 350 should have fought Frieza instead of Goku at a power level in the millions since a Picollo at a level of 350 destroyed a moon with a casual blast? Is this what you are telling me? Piccolo at 350 is >>>>>>> Goku at a PL in the millions since you've stated Goku only shoot Nuke like explosions.

Gotcha.

Hah not once did I say that Piccolo at 350> Goku.

Power Level or Battle Power doesn't always have to do with Destructive capacity.
Piccolo destroyed the moon with a seemingly casual Ki Blast.
Note I said SEEMingly since Piccolo blew it up out of desparation it also looked like a Ki Wave rather than a blast.
I'm still waiting for the scan on Goku touching the flames of the Sun.
But then again that's very inconsistant since a Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku got killed by Semi Perfect Cell's self destruction which was only meant to blow up Earth.

You haven't got anyone, if you think Pokemon are FTL just because of Solar Beam(which is actually one of the slowest moves in Pokemon) you and your logic is dense.

No offense to the OP, but this thread is looking really retarded right now.

What good are Goku's planet busting attacks if superman pulls a doomsday rex on him before he can complete one? Furthermore, at what point has Goku ever busted a planet as his first attack? Hell, the only people in the manga iirc that even attempted that were frieza, buu and cell. All of which were expressed to be pure evil, and Goku is the exact opposite.

Barring cis completely, lets assume that Superman is not acting as efficiently as he normally does, and pussy-foots around and allows Goku to hit him. When Superman decides to hit back (which he will), that's literally it for Goku. Superman is not known for "single hits", he works in combos, and when he doesn't, they're show stoppers. Goku does not have the durability to remain conscious, the speed to dodge, or the strength to retaliate physically. This can be inferred by the fact that being flown through the sun in dbz is a death sentence for anyone, combat or travel speed is never truly measured on a level that would matter to supes, and their lifting and physical strength feats are almost non-existent. With this said, Goku's best strategy would be to sit back and blast supes and hope that he decides to sit there, take it and forget that he's a speedster with ftl combat and travel speed. Unless this happens, Superman wins at least 7.5/10 regardless of the ssj level. The three wins are out of generosity and controlling for cis and random shit like what I just said.

Originally posted by ares834
It appears to be nothing more than light ergo light speed. If it was actually plasma things would be burning up and people wouldn't simply be blinded. Truthfully, all energy travels at the speed of light (Plasma isn't a form of energy but of matter).

Still, that doesn't mean Goku has to be FTL he could have grabbed the glasses in the time it take Tien to use the move.

if only that were true in comics too.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Goku is stronger than Supes you say? and yet....


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4904/360809mw1mk5.gif


Tell me again about how much stronger Goku is than Superman.

Here we have quantifiable proof of what Goku's strength is, and it isn't even close to Superman. Even if he goes ssj3, his increases in strength won't put him anywhere NEAR Superman.

Lol...you post a scan of Goku on a training ground training on a planet with intense gravity. How about posting the scan of kid Goku pushing a boulder the size of Master Roshi house. How about you post the scan of Goku kicking Frieza so hard it shook planet Namek and destroyed an entire Island and two nearby mountains or him picking up a 100 ft tall Picollo tossing him across the ring. Or Goku as a child grabbing a guy that was stated as weight over a ton and tossing him out of the city. Goku as a child was a high class 100 being...you trying to discredit this isn't helping you at all.

So you're basing things on collateral damage when a lot of western comics intentionally ignore it?

Originally posted by Sirius77
No offense to the OP, but this thread is looking really retarded right now.

What good are Goku's planet busting attacks if superman pulls a doomsday rex on him before he can complete one? Furthermore, at what point has Goku ever busted a planet as his first attack? Hell, the only people in the manga iirc that even attempted that were frieza, buu and cell. All of which were expressed to be pure evil, and Goku is the exact opposite.

Barring cis completely, lets assume that Superman is not acting as efficiently as he normally does, and pussy-foots around and allows Goku to hit him. When Superman decides to hit back (which he will), that's literally it for Goku. Superman is not known for "single hits", he works in combos, and when he doesn't, they're show stoppers. Goku does not have the durability to remain conscious, the speed to dodge, or the strength to retaliate physically. This can be inferred by the fact that being flown through the sun in dbz is a death sentence for anyone, combat or travel speed is never truly measured on a level that would matter to supes, and their lifting and physical strength feats are almost non-existent. With this said, Goku's best strategy would be to sit back and blast supes and hope that he decides to sit there, take it and forget that he's a speedster with ftl combat and travel speed. Unless this happens, Superman wins at least 7.5/10 regardless of the ssj level. The three wins are out of generosity and controlling for cis and random shit like what I just said.

Why doesn't Goku have the durability to withstand attacks from Superman when he has withstood so much more in a single battle that what Superman can dish out? You're not making sense. What Goku endured in his single fight against Frieza is enough proof for me.

Speed...it isn't needed but Goku is faster than Supes.

Travel speed...I agree, Superman has Goku beat here.

Goku doesn't need to go Super Saiyan to win this.

Lol...Doomsday Rex is slow compared to Goku and going intangible, Goku has done that as well. Superman would have to fight at his absolute best to stay in the game against Goku.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So you're basing things on collateral damage when a lot of western comics intentionally ignore it?

No...I'm not basing this fight off of collateral damage. I'm just making a point.

Originally posted by carver9
withstood so much more in a single battle that what Superman can dish out?

What is it that you rate the limit of what Superman can dish out?

Originally posted by -Pr-
What is it that you rate the limit of what Superman can dish out?

Superman can dish out a lot...enough to knock out Glads, Thor, etc...etc...but what Goku has withstood in a single battle is insane. Superman has the potential to ko Goku but it will not be easy.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman can dish out a lot...enough to knock out Glads, Thor, etc...etc...but what Goku has withstood in a single battle is insane. Superman has the potential to ko Goku but it will not be easy.

Why.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why.

Because of Gokus durability...the same reason I don't think "Non-transformed" Goku would take Superman out easily, Superman is hellava durable and his will power is insane.

I would enjoy if this was turned into a Gladiator vs Goku thread instead...I would be able.to give a thousand reasons on why Goku would be able to stomp that head. I have to play peak a boo when its involving Superman because of obvious reasons.

Originally posted by carver9
Because of Gokus durability...the same reason I don't think "Non-transformed" Goku would take Superman out easily, Superman is hellava durable and his will power is insane.

I would enjoy if this was turned into a Gladiator vs Goku thread instead...I would be able.to give a thousand reasons on why Goku would be able to stomp that head. I have to play peak a boo when its involving Superman because of obvious reasons.

Because you don't know Superman that well? Well, that's understandable.

So what has Goku withstood that's so impressive?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Because you don't know Superman that well? Well, that's understandable.

So what has Goku withstood that's so impressive?

He withstood hundreds to thousands of high class 100 punches...punched through mountains, numerous of Nukes...hit with an attack that was seen on the outskirt of space, hit by an Island that was coming at him at super speed and the list goes on. He went through all of this in one fight. His opponent that was much weaker than him was hit by an attack that was triple the power of a planetary blast (kamehameha times 20), he was kicked through the planetary crust which also then hit him into two mountains destroying it, he was hit by a blast that had all of the energy from one solar system, he withstood thousands of high class 100 punches, cut in half, then a planet exploded on him, punched through mountain...hit by numerous of nuclear attacks. All of this happened in one fight.

Superman isn't taking them easily (he isn't taking them out at all honestly.).

You should at least watch the show Pr...you'll like it.

By the way...I know Superman. I would prefer it being Gladiator discussed since they are similar and I wouldn't have to hold my tongue since its Gladiator ill be talking about.

Originally posted by carver9
He withstood hundreds to thousands of high class 100 punches...punched through mountains, numerous of Nukes...hit with an attack that was seen on the outskirt of space, hit by an Island that was coming at him at super speed and the list goes on. He went through all of this in one fight. His opponent that was much weaker than him was hit by an attack that was triple the power of a planetary blast (kamehameha times 20), he was kicked through the planetary crust which also then hit him into two mountains destroying it, he was hit by a blast that had all of the energy from one solar system, he withstood thousands of high class 100 punches, cut in half, then a planet exploded on him, punched through mountain...hit by numerous of nuclear attacks. All of this happened in one fight.

Superman isn't taking them easily (he isn't taking them out at all honestly.).

You should at least watch the show Pr...you'll like it.

By the way...I know Superman. I would prefer it being Gladiator discussed since they are similar and I wouldn't have to hold my tongue since its Gladiator ill be talking about.

Not really an anime person, unless it's something like Miyazaki.

Carver. Come on. You've made it more than obvious you have at best a passing knowledge of Superman.

So, before I reply (even though I really don't see how that puts him above Superman), to anyone else: Is that all true?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not really an anime person, unless it's something like Miyazaki.

Carver. Come on. You've made it more than obvious you have at best a passing knowledge of Superman.

So, before I reply (even though I really don't see how that puts him above Superman), to anyone else: Is that all true?

I'll show you the scans. Lol...I have no reason to lie to you.

As for speed. Please look at this site. Scroll all the way down to the bottom until you get to a guy by the name of hitsusatsu11...GREAT DEBATOR...very knowledged on the characters. Please ignore the first guy because he doesnt know what he is talking about.

http://www.animevice.com/forums/dragon-ball/72/how-fast-are-dbz-characters/314493/?

He pretty much sums it up on how fast DBZ characters are and he provide scan for each showing that he mentions. He even provides showings of them punching at light speed during the time they were kids.

Pr...I know of Superman fts and know everything there is to know of the character. Don't know why you would say anything different.

Originally posted by carver9
I know of Superman fts and know everything there is to know of the character. Don't know why you would say anything different.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/dx.gif

Them taking all of that in one fight is insane Pr and that was them at their weakest.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/dx.gif

OMG...

For some strange reason when you do that, it irritates the helm out of me.

Originally posted by carver9
Pr...I know of Superman fts and know everything there is to know of the character. Don't know why you would say anything different.

Because it's true.

C'mon Carver, you've been proven wrong about the guy enough times; please don't take this to the extent where I'm going to actually assume you're just doing it because you think I'm stupid, because i won't take that very well.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/dx.gif

Perfection.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Because it's true.

C'mon Carver, you've been proven wrong about the guy enough times; please don't take this to the extent where I'm going to actually assume you're just doing it because you think I'm stupid, because i won't take that very well.



Perfection.

I wouldn't call it "proving me wrong": I would call it "having different opinions". I know the character Pr.