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1. Hand to hand combat only who wins nd why?

2. An all out fight both at their best they can use everything they have originally at their disposal i.e spidey can use his webs etc... who wins and why?

Danny wins both.

1. Iron Fist 6/10

2. Spider-Man 8/10

Spidey with SS and extra speed wins both

Good fight with Spidey edging it out.

Danny in both.

Originally posted by X-Logan
Danny in both.

Spidey in both

Spidey.

Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey with SS and extra speed wins both

extra speed?

He means Spider-man is faster now than he was before.

so, what'd you think sam?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
1. Iron Fist 6/10

2. Spider-Man 8/10

Originally posted by SamZED
He means Spider-man is faster now than he was before.

Faster how?

What changed?

he probably also has a better or sharper spider sense..

Is this canon, or presumed?

He's always had low level speedster feats. But so has Danny.

1. Spidey.
2. Rand

Parker wins the first, and I'd give them both 5/10 in the second.

Spidey in both.

Originally posted by jalek moye
extra speed? Getting one's WHOLE BODY out of the way of a bullet when it is inches away is definitely faster than anything Iron Fist has shown.

Originally posted by h1a8
Getting one's WHOLE BODY out of the way of a bullet when it is inches away is definitely faster than anything Iron Fist has shown.

No, it's not.

And that's also nothing Spidey hasn't done his entire career.

Originally posted by h1a8
Getting one's WHOLE BODY out of the way of a bullet when it is inches away is definitely faster than anything Iron Fist has shown.


Danny was just shot in the chest by a bullet


Spiderman in both.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4089/bullets11sx.jpg

Routine Iron Fist stuff.

Fractions of an inch.

Originally posted by cdtm

Routine Iron Fist stuff.

Fractions of an inch.
Do you know that makes IF look far inferior to Spidey. He barely dodged bullets by a fraction of an inch. That means he almost got killed.

It is routine for Spidey to dodge a hail of machine gun fire while cracking jokes.

Plus nothing beats dodging a bullet when it is a few inches from you. IF started to dodge well before it was an inch from him but was slow enough to barely get out of the way. Where Spidey didn't even begin to dodge UNTIL the bullet was very close and he effortless dodged the bullet as nothing.

Originally posted by h1a8
Do you know that makes IF look far inferior to Spidey. He barely dodged bullets by a fraction of an inch. That means he almost got killed.


No, that means he dodged bullets by a faction of an inch.

And a bullet going a few extra feet becomes slow enough to dodge? wtf?

Spidey has caught bullets . Just saying.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
Spidey has caught bullets . Just saying.

So has Danny.

Originally posted by cdtm
No, that means he dodged bullets by a faction of an inch.

And a bullet going a few extra feet becomes slow enough to dodge? wtf?

Dodging bullets by several feet (they missed you by several feet) is far better than dodging them by a fraction of an inch (they missed you by a fraction of an inch). The latter proves you are slower and can barely get out of the way. The former proves you are faster and can easily get out of the way. Get it?

IF was shot at from many feet away yet he could only manage to evade the bullets by a fraction of an inch. Spidey was shot at from a few inches away (it was equivalent to) and still managed to remove his whole body from the trajectory.

He ducked between the paths of the bullets. Against an automatic.

Originally posted by Stoic
Danny was just shot in the chest by a bullet


Spiderman in both.
Really? ...
What was the context

Originally posted by cdtm
Danny wins both.

IF in both.

Spidey for majority but slightly due to Ironfist chi amping.

Bugboy gets fisted. Hard.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Bugboy gets fisted. Hard.

Nah. Spidey just dodges IF's attack and counters with a combo to ko.

Originally posted by h1a8
Nah. Spidey just dodges IF's attack and counters with a combo to ko.

Just like he did against the slower, less skilled Davos?

if CIS on spider-man wins the 2, if CIS is off spider-man rage stomps danny, when will people realise that when spider-man is serious people like Danny, Wolverine,Captain america,Daredevil atc atc are just like king pin was to him in the jail fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
Nah. Spidey just dodges IF's attack and counters with a combo to ko.

Bugboy`s kung fu is too weak to combo to ko.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Bugboy`s kung fu is too weak to combo to ko.

his kung fu perhaps, but his class 15 strength that will spill danny's brain on the concrete isnt

bump

Good fight.

Iron Fist 10/10.

Spidey wins.

They both need only one good hit, but Spider-Man is more durable, faster, has his spider-sense, his webs and is a hell of a lot stronger.

Spider-Man all the way.

Originally posted by h1a8
Nah. Spidey just dodges IF's attack and counters with a combo to ko.

Lets see him dodge this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/PowerManIronFist054-18.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/PowerManIronFist054-19.jpg

The recent Iron Fist series had him doing similar stuff, too.

Spider-man on both. Maybe Im had an edge before pete had training with shang chi...added to the fact that he gained an improved Spider-sense.

With everything else, I don't think ironfist can keep his strenght up breaking webbings continuously. A few seconds of being incapacitated is all it takes for spider-man to land a quick haymaker.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
They both need only one good hit, but Spider-Man is more durable, faster, has his spider-sense, his webs and is a hell of a lot stronger.

Spider-Man all the way.

Danny's broken out of/through the webbing. And you're underrating his durability..

He's survived attacks and blunt force that would cripple most streets.. Or even Spidey, in some cases.

Originally posted by cdtm
Danny's broken out of/through the webbing. And you're underrating his durability..

He's survived attacks and blunt force that would cripple most streets.. Or even Spidey, in some cases.

You don't understand. He said that Danny can break them but that the webbing will rob him of his limited energy and slow him down where Spidey can do his maximum spider.

Spidey wins both easily due to being faster, having an unfair spider sense, being stronger, and having unfair webbing.

Note: Spidey also knows kung-fu, having even better spider sense, and much stronger webbing now.

Spider-Man in both.

good fight goes either way , neither of them have a substantial advantage over the other in anything, minus mabey hand to hand and that goes to danny.

spider man easily, stronger faster more agile more durable got spider sense and now knows kung fu to some degree which allowed him to get the upper hand on shang chi in sparring, spider man demolishes danny

As much as I like Spider-Man, the so-called Spider-Fu won't help him much against Iron Fist.

This being said, Spider-Man still wins.

Iron Fist.

Spiderman.

Originally posted by Mindset


Spiderman.

Danny isn't going to be using helicarrier busting if's.

Spiderman can take him because his all out is more conducive to still staying in character, i.e. not bloodlusted.

Originally posted by Mindset
Danny isn't going to be using helicarrier busting if's.

Spiderman can take him because his all out is more conducive to still staying in character, i.e. not bloodlusted.

He doesn't need to use a helicarrier busting fist, though.

Spidey's probably a bit faster.. Say, fast enough to hit Danny and avoid a counter, just like he did with Davos/Steel Serpent or Black Tarantula.

The problem, is one or two unanswered punches isn't going to beat him. Danny's durable enough to take it, and imo Spidey would tire himself out darting in and out for the odd punch, before Danny gets knocked out.

While Danny, all he has to do is land one good Iron Fist. Doesn't have to be a helicarrier buster, just the kinds he uses to beat the bad guys.

And Spidey's webbing has limited uses here.. Blinding Danny is useless, because he basically has Daredevil's radar sense. (In fact, in Brubakers Daredevil run, he was sensing Hand ninja sneaking down his block.)

Webbing him up probably won't work, as Danny's chi basically melts it..

I'll give Parker enough credit that he can take a win or two, but he'd have to work 10 times as hard as Danny, and make no mistakes.. (Since Danny can take his punches, while he can't really afford to take even a weakened Iron Fist..)

Originally posted by cdtm
He doesn't need to use a helicarrier busting fist, though.

Spidey's probably a bit faster.. Say, fast enough to hit Danny and avoid a counter, just like he did with Davos/Steel Serpent or Black Tarantula.

The problem, is one or two unanswered punches isn't going to beat him. Danny's durable enough to take it, and imo Spidey would tire himself out darting in and out for the odd punch, before Danny gets knocked out.

While Danny, all he has to do is land one good Iron Fist. Doesn't have to be a helicarrier buster, just the kinds he uses to beat the bad guys.

And Spidey's webbing has limited uses here.. Blinding Danny is useless, because he basically has Daredevil's radar sense. (In fact, in Brubakers Daredevil run, he was sensing Hand ninja sneaking down his block.)

Webbing him up probably won't work, as Danny's chi basically melts it..

I'll give Parker enough credit that he can take a win or two, but he'd have to work 10 times as hard as Danny, and make no mistakes.. (Since Danny can take his punches, while he can't really afford to take even a weakened Iron Fist..)

It's only fair that if you use high end IF durability then we should use Spidey's as well. And you don't want to do a feat war with Spidey as he has endured some hellish sh!t in his career.

The problem IF has mostly is Spidey's SS. This alone makes the fight unfair as it warns and guides Spidey out of the way before right before the attack is even launched. In some cases, Spidey allowed a bullet to get within inches of him before beginning to move out of the way. In other instances we have Spidey dodging homed lasers and energy beams. This is how fast and unfair the Spidey sense is.


Danny tires faster the more he uses chi. The webbing will not only tire him out but slow him down to allow Spidey extra hits on him. Think about it, how long will it take IF to break out of webbing? At least a couple of seconds. Well if these guys are fighting at bullet speed then a couple of seconds is an eternity.
You are also forgetting that Spidey's webbing is a lot stronger now (it would take IF more effort) and he knows kung fu which not only amplifies his strikes several times more powerful but adds to his defense and already unfair reflexes.

Originally posted by cdtm
He doesn't need to use a helicarrier busting fist, though.

Spidey's probably a bit faster.. Say, fast enough to hit Danny and avoid a counter, just like he did with Davos/Steel Serpent or Black Tarantula.

The problem, is one or two unanswered punches isn't going to beat him. Danny's durable enough to take it, and imo Spidey would tire himself out darting in and out for the odd punch, before Danny gets knocked out.

While Danny, all he has to do is land one good Iron Fist. Doesn't have to be a helicarrier buster, just the kinds he uses to beat the bad guys.

And Spidey's webbing has limited uses here.. Blinding Danny is useless, because he basically has Daredevil's radar sense. (In fact, in Brubakers Daredevil run, he was sensing Hand ninja sneaking down his block.)

Webbing him up probably won't work, as Danny's chi basically melts it..

I'll give Parker enough credit that he can take a win or two, but he'd have to work 10 times as hard as Danny, and make no mistakes.. (Since Danny can take his punches, while he can't really afford to take even a weakened Iron Fist..) Spiderman routinely takes class 100's punches.

Danny's senses while fighting aren't as good as Peter's or Matt's.

The webbing gives Spiderman enough of an edge to win imo, along with his other abilities, ofc.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's only fair that if you use high end IF durability then we should use Spidey's as well. And you don't want to do a feat war with Spidey as he has endured some hellish sh!t in his career.

The problem IF has mostly is Spidey's SS. This alone makes the fight unfair as it warns and guides Spidey out of the way before right before the attack is even launched. In some cases, Spidey allowed a bullet to get within inches of him before beginning to move out of the way. In other instances we have Spidey dodging homed lasers and energy beams. This is how fast and unfair the Spidey sense is.


Danny tires faster the more he uses chi. The webbing will not only tire him out but slow him down to allow Spidey extra hits on him. Think about it, how long will it take IF to break out of webbing? At least a couple of seconds. Well if these guys are fighting at bullet speed then a couple of seconds is an eternity.
You are also forgetting that Spidey's webbing is a lot stronger now (it would take IF more effort) and he knows kung fu which not only amplifies his strikes several times more powerful but adds to his defense and already unfair reflexes. Danny does not have a problem tiring anymore.

Spiderman has fought non stop longer than Danny, but Danny had to fight for weeks (months?) on end with barely any rest.

Originally posted by Mindset
Spiderman routinely takes class 100's punches.


Via a combination of toughness and rolling with it (Thanks to his precog).

In some ways, fighting Danny is worse than fighting Hulk, because it cuts down on the advantages that let him breeze past attacks that would normally cripple him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Danny does not have a problem tiring anymore.

Spiderman has fought non stop longer than Danny, but Danny had to fight for weeks (months?) on end with barely any rest.

That's right. He was fighting off wolves for god knows how long in the bitter cold.

And than he had to fight Steel Serpent, while he had his Iron Fist.

Originally posted by cdtm
He doesn't need to use a helicarrier busting fist, though.

Spidey's probably a bit faster.. Say, fast enough to hit Danny and avoid a counter, just like he did with Davos/Steel Serpent or Black Tarantula.

The problem, is one or two unanswered punches isn't going to beat him. Danny's durable enough to take it, and imo Spidey would tire himself out darting in and out for the odd punch, before Danny gets knocked out.

While Danny, all he has to do is land one good Iron Fist. Doesn't have to be a helicarrier buster, just the kinds he uses to beat the bad guys.

And Spidey's webbing has limited uses here.. Blinding Danny is useless, because he basically has Daredevil's radar sense. (In fact, in Brubakers Daredevil run, he was sensing Hand ninja sneaking down his block.)

Webbing him up probably won't work, as Danny's chi basically melts it..

I'll give Parker enough credit that he can take a win or two, but he'd have to work 10 times as hard as Danny, and make no mistakes.. (Since Danny can take his punches, while he can't really afford to take even a weakened Iron Fist..)

His chi melts webbing?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
His chi melts webbing?

Or cuts through it like a "spider web"

I don't have the scan on hand, but I've seen Danny simply wave his chi amped hand and cut right through the webbing.

And he's always been able to casually break out of the stuff, even as far back as the 1970's.

Originally posted by h1a8
You don't understand. He said that Danny can break them but that the webbing will rob him of his limited energy and slow him down where Spidey can do his maximum spider.



Maximum spider

Pete is stronger, perhaps slightly faster, more durable and has webs. He is not unskilled.

Danny hits harder, is much more skilled, and cuts through webbing like string. He has well above peak human durability.

In a lot of ways, Danny is hard matchup for Pete. His skill counters Pete's physical advantages and he can neither be blinded not bound in webs effectivly.

Assuming "hth" means Danny can't use his IF then fight one is Pete 7/10; fight two is Danny 6/10.

Originally posted by h1a8
You don't understand. He said that Danny can break them but that the webbing will rob him of his limited energy and slow him down where Spidey can do his maximum spider.

Spidey wins both easily due to being faster, having an unfair spider sense, being stronger, and having unfair webbing.

Note: Spidey also knows kung-fu, having even better spider sense, and much stronger webbing now.

If he tries a max spider attack, he'll probably get what happened when he tried that against Black Tarantula. Caught by the ankle and slammed.

Also, Max Iron Fist:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/MarvelTeam-UpAnnual03-30.jpg

Originally posted by cdtm
If he tries a max spider attack, he'll probably get what happened when he tried that against Black Tarantula. Caught by the ankle and slammed.

Also, Max Iron Fist:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/MarvelTeam-UpAnnual03-30.jpg


Not exactly a good showing for IF.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Not exactly a good showing for IF.

It's Hulk.

He's not knocking out Hulk, even today. But it's a good example of his speed/agility, and it replicates to a T the usual "max spider".

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Not exactly a good showing for IF. It's the Hulk.

Taking on Hulk = not a good day for most characters

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/paladin_04/fistscan.jpg

Originally posted by cdtm
If he tries a max spider attack, he'll probably get what happened when he tried that against Black Tarantula. Caught by the ankle and slammed.

Also, Max Iron Fist:





Nice way to ignore my point. I'll restate. Fighting at bullet speed or greater, a few seconds is an eternity to Spidey. That means webbing will slow down IF for at least a couple of seconds and give Spidey an eternity to land tremendous combos on him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Nice way to ignore my point. I'll restate. Fighting at bullet speed or greater, a few seconds is an eternity to Spidey. That means webbing will slow down IF for at least a couple of seconds and give Spidey an eternity to land tremendous combos on him.

You have no point. Both Danny and Spidey fight at bullet speeds. I just proved Danny can even do a "max spider attack", done on Hulk in that scan. I and others have also proven Danny is as fast or faster than a bullet.

Danny is more than fast enough to destroy webbing, and counter any attack Spidey tries.

Id support SpiderMan to win on both counts.

Originally posted by cdtm
You have no point. Both Danny and Spidey fight at bullet speeds. I just proved Danny can even do a "max spider attack", done on Hulk in that scan. I and others have also proven Danny is as fast or faster than a bullet.

Danny is more than fast enough to destroy webbing, and counter any attack Spidey tries.

My statement implied both were fighting at bullet speeds and thus a few seconds is an eternity to Spidey. Who cares if Danny can do a maximum spider? It's irrelevant.

My point is that he will be stuck for a few seconds when Spidey webs him. Spidey will then take advantage and combo him to...

How is Tarantula rellevant here? Iirc he's twice as strong as Spider-man and many times more durable. And Spider-man was clearly shown to be much faster of the two, even blitzed him at some point. Tatantula's durability is what won him that fight. Danny wont tank Spider-man's punches like BT did.

Originally posted by SamZED
How is Tarantula rellevant here? Iirc he's twice as strong as Spider-man and many times more durable. And Spider-man was clearly shown to be much faster of the two, even blitzed him at some point. Tatantula's durability is what won him that fight.

Grabbing him out of mid air is a speed feat, and he was blocking his attacks mid blitz.



Steel Serpent did.

Originally posted by h1a8
My statement implied both were fighting at bullet speeds and thus a few seconds is an eternity to Spidey. Who cares if Danny can do a maximum spider? It's irrelevant.

My point is that he will be stuck for a few seconds when Spidey webs him. Spidey will then take advantage and combo him to...

He's never been stuck by webbing before, when he's channeling the Iron Fist. He rips it apart instantly. He's destroyed it in mid air before it can even touch him.

However long it slows him down won't be nearly long enough for Spidey to gain a major advantage. At best, maybe he'll get a free hit out of it, and Danny can take a free hit or two from Spiderman.

Just like Spidey won't lose to one of Danny's undodgeable chi area attacks.

Originally posted by cdtm
Grabbing him out of mid air is a speed feat, and he was blocking his attacks mid blitz. He grabbed him after Spider-man landed few unanswered hits. Spider-man's speed advAntage was shown throughout the rest of the fight as well. Its BT's durability that was the problem.


from a holding back and (lets be honest) jobbing Spider-man. I noticed you often speak of this fight as if its and end all be all example of how Spider-man fights and how his fight with IF should go. Its really not. Its a low showing for him in a book where the villain had to look good because he's the only bad guy of the story. There's no way Danny (or serpent for that matter) should tank an all out punch from Spider-man. Id go as far as say - not even from a holding back Spider-man when PIS is off.

cant believe this crap is still going on , i already proved that spider man is faster in fighting speed, spider man is greatly stronger than danny, more durable than danny, got spider sense , got webbing, the only advantages danny got over spider man doesnt matter because even if the iron fist is stronger than a punch from spider man its still irrelevant because a no holding back spider man will knock iron fist out, his second advantage is fighting skills which again will be countered by the fact spider man is faster and has spider sense to worn him, so as you can see danny doesnt have any advantage over spider man and he gets his ass kicked again and again and again and again , now close this shit

Originally posted by red sabre
so as you can see danny doesnt have any advantage

By your own admission, Danny hits harder and it more skilled. Those are advantages. Your claim that spidey will simply KO him so that it won't matter doesnt pass the test of intellectual rigor. And despite what you say, I don't think many people reading this thread would agree that you've proven that Spidey is much faster than Danny.

Honestly, it's a guy who's stronger and more durable vs a guy who hits harder and is more skilled. Both have a versatile weapon. Pretty much everyone can see that makes this a fair fight.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
By your own admission, Danny hits harder and it more skilled. Those are advantages. Your claim that spidey will simply KO him so that it won't matter doesnt pass the test of intellectual rigor. And despite what you say, I don't think many people reading this thread would agree that you've proven that Spidey is much faster than Danny.

Honestly, it's a guy who's stronger and more durable vs a guy who hits harder and is more skilled. Both have a versatile weapon. Pretty much everyone can see that makes this a fair fight.

danny might hit harder but its not advantage because either of them can take the other one out, his skills are not an advantage because they are countered by greater speed and spider sense

never said spidy is and i quote you "much faster than danny" however he IS faster than donny and combined with his spider sense its a deadly combination to counter his skills

Originally posted by red sabre
danny might hit harder but its not advantage because either of them can take the other one out

Danny can one-shot Pete with either hand. Pete can't realistically one-shot Danny here. That's a significant advantage.



Or one could just as easily say that Danny's skill counters Pete's slight speed advantage and SS. It's not an overwhelming "counter" either way, which is kinda my point. Fair fight--each with skills that challenge the other.

Also: I'm unimpressed by the usefulness of SS in 1-on-1 fights. It's great against groups, so he can react to attacks from any direction. But if he only has one opponent to focus on, the only way we can see it work is by observing his reflexes. But Danny's natural reflexes are already on the same tier, so there is no quantifiable advantage.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Danny can one-shot Pete with either hand. Pete can't realistically one-shot Danny here. That's a significant advantage.



Or one could just as easily say that Danny's skill counters Pete's slight speed advantage and SS. It's not an overwhelming "counter" either way, which is kinda my point. Fair fight--each with skills that challenge the other.

Also: I'm unimpressed by the usefulness of SS in 1-on-1 fights. It's great against groups, so he can react to attacks from any direction. But if he only has one opponent to focus on, the only way we can see it work is by observing his reflexes. But Danny's natural reflexes are already on the same tier, so there is no quantifiable advantage.

are you really trying to tell me that a punch from a no holding back spider- man wont KO danny? give me a break, spider man bust cement walls and concrete regulary with his averege punches, he is actually able to effect class 100 bricks with his punches and actually busted iron mans armor with a punch while mad, and you are trying to tell me he wont KO danny? better back this shit up

danny cant counter with his skill all the things spidy got on him, while having better skill it wont make him move faster because no matter how skilled you are you cant move faster, therefor the speed advantage is > skill advantage , second of all lest also bring out the spider sense which means lets say spidy can land 3 shots at the time danny will be able to land 1 , his spider sense will worn him about that 1 punch he will avoid it via spider sense and greater speed and continue to ko danny

spider man reflex are on a higher level than danny as well as his overall speed, his spider sense is worning him off upcoming danger which he use perfectly with his speed reflex and agility to avoid the harm like he demonstrated many times vs foes such as lizard who is also super humanly fast and also has huge reach advantage over spidy with his tail and yet his spider sense works perfectly allowing him to counter and avoid attacks either 1 vs 1 or vs groups

sometimes you see spider man get tagged but of course you dont expect writers to write down a character that most people cant touch right? in that case we go by overall abilities and by showings which support his abilities with comon sense and his high feats (didnt say high end), with all that the conclusion is simple and thats spider man simply owns danny like it or not, danny is a great character but dont push him to leagues he doesnt belong

Originally posted by red sabre
are you really trying to tell me that a punch from a no holding back spider- man wont KO danny?

Not in a fight. If this were one of those durability test thread where Danny has to stand still while Pete unleashes the biggest haymaker he's got, then I'd give it 50/50. If Danny is allowed to move at all to prevent a square hit, then no way.



Pretty par for the course for a mid-tier meta. Danny will tank that all day. Or have you. It read much iron fist?

Pete "affecting" class 100s is either overselling it or PIS and you know it. At his peak, Pete is in the class 15-20 range. Next you're going to remind me that he punched out firelord...



So you say. I say you're wrong.



Incorrect. While its true that a large speed advantage should allow you to outperform a more skilled opponent, the skilled opponent makes moves with less thought, less wasted motion and more precision. Thus, an untrained man with a slight speed advantage will still get owned by a judo master. And like you admit, Pete's speed is only slightly better.

The rest of your post was mind of a rant that didn't actually refute my point. I know how the SS works (by the way, it's "warn" with an "a". But even with the SS Pete still in has slightly better feats than Danny at best. It could be argued that they're equal. So simply saying that its a huge advantage isn't supported by the evidence.

Red, the charter guy is here hooking up Internet in my new place, so I could post some scans in a bit if you really want. But you could also just look through Danny's respect thread or read up on some recentish stuff, like his fight with the Iron Fist slayer, which is a perfect example of him fighting against a much stronger, faster, more durable opponent and literally punching his head off.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Not in a fight. If this were one of those durability test thread where Danny has to stand still while Pete unleashes the biggest haymaker he's got, then I'd give it 50/50. If Danny is allowed to move at all to prevent a square hit, then no way.
I find it difficult to believe that Danny can take, without much problems, the biggest haymaker spidey has got.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I find it difficult to believe that Danny can take, without much problems, the biggest haymaker spidey has got.

If you know his history, it's an easy thing to believe.

Danny's survived everything from lethal doses of radiation without a rad suit, explosions from the apartment leveling variety to nuke level, and blunt force such as riding the outside of a speeding train and getting slammed into a tunnel wall, without breaking any bones..

Even in their early 70's/80's meetings, Spidey barely manages to daze Danny with a headbutt, yet exclaims in pain and hopes the fight won't continue because of how tough he seems..

Originally posted by SamZED
He grabbed him after Spider-man landed few unanswered hits. Spider-man's speed advAntage was shown throughout the rest of the fight as well. Its BT's durability that was the problem.


from a holding back and (lets be honest) jobbing Spider-man. I noticed you often speak of this fight as if its and end all be all example of how Spider-man fights and how his fight with IF should go. Its really not. Its a low showing for him in a book where the villain had to look good because he's the only bad guy of the story. There's no way Danny (or serpent for that matter) should tank an all out punch from Spider-man. Id go as far as say - not even from a holding back Spider-man when PIS is off.

In their initial encounter, you can argue Spidey was holding back. After the uppercut connects and SS still doesn't go down? Not so much.

The same applies with Black Tarantula, between their first and second encounters. To argue Spidey is going all out against BT, yet is holding back or being jobbed out to SS, is a double standard..

And if I cite this example often, it's only because posters ignore context and try and claim Spidey is jobbing to a human level martial artist.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/MarvelTeam-Up-063-12.jpg

That's not something Batman or Daredevil is going to do. Grabbing a leaping Spidey like that, swinging him around with enough force to knock Danny out on his feet, and tossing him like he weighs next to nothing is a super human feat.

And Steel Serpent could have easily replicated the beating Black Tarantula gave to Spidey in their first fight, by clubbing him into the floor or a wall.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I find it difficult to believe that Danny can take, without much problems, the biggest haymaker spidey has got.

I agree. He would have problems. I only guessed him staying conscious 50% of the time, in fact. But again, that's if he just stood there.

Here's some examples of things Danny has tanked, for comparison (note, I'm updating as I go):

http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s446/DreamStuffshare/Iron%20Fist%20Feats/


Also, keep in mind his fight against the Iron Fist Slayer, who seems comparable to Pete in strength. Danny took lots of shots from him while deliberately suppressing the dragon chi.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
I agree. He would have problems. I only guessed him staying conscious 50% of the time, in fact. But again, that's if he just stood there.

Here's some examples of things Danny has tanked, for comparison:

http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s446/DreamStuffshare/Iron%20Fist%20Feats/


Also, keep in mind his fight against the Iron Fist Slayer, who seems comparable to Pete in strength. Danny took lots of shots from him while deliberately suppressing the dragon chi.

I give you credit for going in there, because my photobucket isn't organized in the least.

I've even re-uploaded things I couldn't find again in that mess.

Originally posted by cdtm
In their initial encounter, you can argue Spidey was holding back. After the uppercut connects and SS still doesn't go down? Not so much.

The same applies with Black Tarantula, between their first and second encounters. To argue Spidey is going all out against BT, yet is holding back or being jobbed out to SS, is a double standard..

And if I cite this example often, it's only because posters ignore context and try and claim Spidey is jobbing to a human level martial artist.


That's not something Batman or Daredevil is going to do. Grabbing a leaping Spidey like that, swinging him around with enough force to knock Danny out on his feet, and tossing him like he weighs next to nothing is a super human feat.

And Steel Serpent could have easily replicated the beating Black Tarantula gave to Spidey in their first fight, by clubbing him into the floor or a wall.
TBH dont see a reason why he wouldn't hold back trough the entire fight. He holds back vs his archenemies most of the time even knowing they can take a hit or have healing factors. It's been stated on-panel. So why would he go all out vs someone he barely knows, has no personal grudge against and doesn't know his limits? He even confirms on panel that he can't stop himself from holding back. Not saying he was using kid gloves but that was far from going all out.

When I see Spider-man miss a webline from 20 feet away or get cornered by a 8-foot fence it's pretty clear to me he's getting jobbed out just so the hero of the story (in this case IF) could fight his own enemy and save the day. It's not double standart, just being objective. The idea that SS or IF can no-sell an all out punch from Spider-man (the kind that was shown shattering Iron Man's armor, leveling buildings and creating a shockwave powerful enough to crack concrete in a 20-foot radius) doesn't seem logical.

Using the SS fight as an example of how Spider-man would fair in all other fights is lowballing. It's not like he has no other feats or never faced more powerfull/durable opponents. The level of strength, speed, durability he demonstrated during that fight is clearly way belove his average shwings (let alone his best ones) so why should we use it as an example? It's not like IF doesn't have low showings. We should go by average for both. And that was not Spider-man's average. Not even close.

Im not saying that every time Spider-man loses to MA its jobbing (especially the ones that can amp) but very often his CIS gets the better of him, he either dances around too much or doesn't take the fight seriously enough or doesn't know when its time to stop holding back. At the same time there are countless examples when the same martial artists who gave him trouble in the past get 1-2 shotted by Pete the second it gets personal.

SS doesn't have BT's strength. And more importantly Spider-man on average wouldn't get knocked out by such attack. Just because it happened in one story doesnt mean it will happen again, it's a really bad case of A>B>C logic. It's like saying that any martial artist can put an armbar on Surfer because it happened once. Spider-man has taken hits way more powerful than that and got up like nothing happened. Im not even saying that classic Spider-man would win a majority against current Iron Fist but lets be objective and not use low showings for one character as if it's a standart while assuming that his opponent will fight at his absolute best.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dodging bullets by several feet (they missed you by several feet) is far better than dodging them by a fraction of an inch (they missed you by a fraction of an inch). The latter proves you are slower and can barely get out of the way. The former proves you are faster and can easily get out of the way. Get it?

This is basically the opposite of the truth.


1)This isn't a "bullet-dodging" competition where the winner is the one furthest from the bullet when it passes. This is a fight. It makes more since to dodge bullets by as little as possible so as not to waste time, energy, motion and momentum. I can dodge a single punch, but why would I jump three-feet away to do it?

2)Because dodging by fractions of an inch is harder--it would be much easier for me to dive out of the way of, say, a 90pmh baseball than to gently tilt my head around it while walking toward the pitcher.

3)It's true that narrowly dodging something is sometimes luck (as in, you'd dodge it by more if you could), but does Danny look like he's having a hard time here? He does it over and over without breaking stride. No. It's obviously intentional and obviously meant to showcase how unfazed he is by bullet speed.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
This is basically the opposite of the truth.


1)This isn't a "bullet-dodging" competition where the winner is the one furthest from the bullet when it passes. This is a fight. It makes more since to dodge bullets by as little as possible so as not to waste time, energy, motion and momentum. I can dodge a single punch, but why would I jump three-feet away to do it?

2)Because dodging by fractions of an inch is harder--it would be much easier for me to dive out of the way of, say, a 90pmh baseball than to gently tilt my head around it while walking toward the pitcher.

3)It's true that narrowly dodging something is sometimes luck (as in, you'd dodge it by more if you could), but does Danny look like he's having a hard time here? He does it over and over without breaking stride. No. It's obviously intentional and obviously meant to showcase how unfazed he is by bullet speed.

at you replying to an old post.
Well I wasn't very clear there was I?
Let me be clearer.
IF could only manage to move a few inches in the time the bullet was in the air. This is his top speed. Spider-man on the other hand can move larger distances while the bullet is in the air. I understand your point about only dodging by a few inches, but IF had no choice.

With that said, throw my argument away. I concede that one. My new argument is that Spidey can wait til the bullet is within inches from him before moving out of the way. This my friend is speed.

Originally posted by SamZED
TBH dont see a reason why he wouldn't hold back trough the entire fight. He holds back vs his archenemies most of the time even knowing they can take a hit or have healing factors. It's been stated on-panel. So why would he go all out vs someone he barely knows, has no personal grudge against and doesn't know his limits? He even confirms on panel that he can't stop himself from holding back. Not saying he was using kid gloves but that was far from going all out.

When I see Spider-man miss a webline from 20 feet away or get cornered by a 8-foot fence it's pretty clear to me he's getting jobbed out just so the hero of the story (in this case IF) could fight his own enemy and save the day. It's not double standart, just being objective. The idea that SS or IF can no-sell an all out punch from Spider-man (the kind that was shown shattering Iron Man's armor, leveling buildings and creating a shockwave powerful enough to crack concrete in a 20-foot radius) doesn't seem logical.

Using the SS fight as an example of how Spider-man would fair in all other fights is lowballing. It's not like he has no other feats or never faced more powerfull/durable opponents. The level of strength, speed, durability he demonstrated during that fight is clearly way belove his average shwings (let alone his best ones) so why should we use it as an example? It's not like IF doesn't have low showings. We should go by average for both. And that was not Spider-man's average. Not even close.

Im not saying that every time Spider-man loses to MA its jobbing (especially the ones that can amp) but very often his CIS gets the better of him, he either dances around too much or doesn't take the fight seriously enough or doesn't know when its time to stop holding back. At the same time there are countless examples when the same martial artists who gave him trouble in the past get 1-2 shotted by Pete the second it gets personal.

SS doesn't have BT's strength. And more importantly Spider-man on average wouldn't get knocked out by such attack. Just because it happened in one story doesnt mean it will happen again, it's a really bad case of A>B>C logic. It's like saying that any martial artist can put an armbar on Surfer because it happened once. Spider-man has taken hits way more powerful than that and got up like nothing happened. Im not even saying that classic Spider-man would win a majority against current Iron Fist but lets be objective and not use low showings for one character as if it's a standart while assuming that his opponent will fight at his absolute best.


I see your points about Spidey being off his game in that story.. True, his webbing accuracy is usually a lot better than that.

The thing is, SS also gave Danny close fights multiple times. So the low balling works both ways, in assuming Spidey shouldn't struggle with someone Iron Fist struggled with.

But as far as comparing BT and Danny in sheer strength, I could toss out more examples, but one stands out to me:

In Brubakers and Fractions run, there was an Iron Fist killing demon, who took a sucker punch from Luke Cage that sent him flying pretty far (Maybe a football fields length, maybe more). Than Cage got him in a strangle hold.. And, the demon fought out of it.

Iron Fist, he was helpless against the creature, because every time he channeled his Iron Fist technique, it absorbed his chi. Plus, it seemed to read his moves before he even made him (Perhaps absorbing his chi gave him this ability, but it was never explained how it did this.)

So, what Danny does is refuse to use his Iron Fist, his techniques, and fight like a brawler, and has some success double teaming it with Luke Cage. But, even that doesn't stop it.. (Cage got knocked through a wall, btw, and gave an exclamation of pain. So it can hit hard enough to stagger Luke Cage.) Eventually, it comes down to only Danny and the demon on top of Randcorp building. Danny's wounded, and feigns defeat, completely masking his ki and leaving himself vulnerable. The demon attacks, and at the last moment Danny strikes, taking its head off its body.

There was no Iron Fist chi when he did this, so I have to assume it was not an Iron Fist amp he hit it with, but a standard chi amp that he'd use in his normal attacks. Danny's normal, non Iron Fist blows did more damage than all of Luke Cages blows....

That's just one example, and imo an example that best demonstrates even without the full IF amp, Danny can hit a lot harder than a street, and is comparable to Spidey or Black Tarantula in sheer hitting force "unamped", if not overall strength...

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Not in a fight. If this were one of those durability test thread where Danny has to stand still while Pete unleashes the biggest haymaker he's got, then I'd give it 50/50. If Danny is allowed to move at all to prevent a square hit, then no way.



Pretty par for the course for a mid-tier meta. Danny will tank that all day. Or have you. It read much iron fist?

Pete "affecting" class 100s is either overselling it or PIS and you know it. At his peak, Pete is in the class 15-20 range. Next you're going to remind me that he punched out firelord...



So you say. I say you're wrong.



Incorrect. While its true that a large speed advantage should allow you to outperform a more skilled opponent, the skilled opponent makes moves with less thought, less wasted motion and more precision. Thus, an untrained man with a slight speed advantage will still get owned by a judo master. And like you admit, Pete's speed is only slightly better.

The rest of your post was mind of a rant that didn't actually refute my point. I know how the SS works (by the way, it's "warn" with an "a". But even with the SS Pete still in has slightly better feats than Danny at best. It could be argued that they're equal. So simply saying that its a huge advantage isn't supported by the evidence.

not in a fight? dude are you now trying to tell me that no one can knock out iron fist because he moves with the punch as you claim? wow iron fist is just undefeated no one can knock him out and no one can take his iron fist punch he is a skyfather level give him a cape

and now seriously lets go with your claim that he rolls with the punch and bla bla bla, if we already agree that spider man is indeed faster than him that means he WILL tag him fully because he is faster and that means his punch will be faster than danny reaction time which means by the time iron fist will react spidy will already land the clean shot, and now to adress this thing as overall thats the biggest bullshit i have ever heard, in some fights he rolls with the punch just as in more fights spidy just avoid punches because of the spider sense so in that case i claim iron fist will never land a clean hit on spidy because of his spider sense and superior speed which actually makes much more sense than your claim

so now danny can tank spider man hits all day long? spider man while serious one shotted and busted open iron mans armor with a punch and i dont have to start explaining to you how durable that thing is, what feats of durability can be played for iron fist? if spider man punch danny no holding back to the head he is knocked out, geez iron fist is shang chi only thing is he can manipulate his chi to higher degree as far as output power, as far as tanking power i dont see iron fist manipulating his chi to such higher degrees thats bullshit

oh so now you are calling pete punching power bullshit because he is class 20 25? ok lets play this game and what class is iron fist in his best day? any strength feats to suggest he is even a super human? strength doesnt mean all, yeah yeah he can chi amp himself and spider man while pissed as was clearly showed on pannel can reach much higher results with his hits than his lifting, and even if we go by lifting feats spider man toying with tanks , holding full buildings, throwing armored trucks like toys is more than 25 ton range, again as was showed to us on panel and by feats when spider man sligthly more serious he manage to bust some serious shit with his hits and its not all about how much he can lift

so now you are calling spidy untrained? dude where did you come from?i am not arguing spider man can match iron fist as far as skills alone but to say pete is untrained and doesnt know how to fight properly is retarded, pete fought thousands of fights and now he knows kung fu to some degree so to try and present it as someone with fighting skills vs someone who doesnt know shit about fighting and only got speed advantage is false and incorrect to the highest degrees, spider man got the speed reflex spider sense and combat knowledge all that combined trumps iron fist skills by a mile , iron fist will get tagged and taken out because of that fact

if you repeat and say their feats are equel wont make it true, first you say their speed feats are almost equel then you come and say his speed feats plus the spider sense are equel? that already doesnt make any sense at all, show me feats of iron fist speedblitzing super human opponents with super human speed and avoid them with easy and then we talk

you know what you wana play the straw game? fine i am in for it, spider man took multiple punches from savage hulk several times, prove that the iron fist hits harder than savage hulk

Originally posted by red sabre
not in a fight? dude are you now trying to tell me that no one can knock out iron fist because he moves with the punch as you claim? wow iron fist is just undefeated no one can knock him out and no one can take his iron fist punch he is a skyfather level give him a cape

and now seriously lets go with your claim that he rolls with the punch and bla bla bla, if we already agree that spider man is indeed faster than him that means he WILL tag him fully because he is faster and that means his punch will be faster than danny reaction time which means by the time iron fist will react spidy will already land the clean shot, and now to adress this thing as overall thats the biggest bullshit i have ever heard, in some fights he rolls with the punch just as in more fights spidy just avoid punches because of the spider sense so in that case i claim iron fist will never land a clean hit on spidy because of his spider sense and superior speed which actually makes much more sense than your claim

so now danny can tank spider man hits all day long? spider man while serious one shotted and busted open iron mans armor with a punch and i dont have to start explaining to you how durable that thing is, what feats of durability can be played for iron fist? if spider man punch danny no holding back to the head he is knocked out, geez iron fist is shang chi only thing is he can manipulate his chi to higher degree as far as output power, as far as tanking power i dont see iron fist manipulating his chi to such higher degrees thats bullshit

oh so now you are calling pete punching power bullshit because he is class 20 25? ok lets play this game and what class is iron fist in his best day? any strength feats to suggest he is even a super human? strength doesnt mean all, yeah yeah he can chi amp himself and spider man while pissed as was clearly showed on pannel can reach much higher results with his hits than his lifting, and even if we go by lifting feats spider man toying with tanks , holding full buildings, throwing armored trucks like toys is more than 25 ton range, again as was showed to us on panel and by feats when spider man sligthly more serious he manage to bust some serious shit with his hits and its not all about how much he can lift

so now you are calling spidy untrained? dude where did you come from?i am not arguing spider man can match iron fist as far as skills alone but to say pete is untrained and doesnt know how to fight properly is retarded, pete fought thousands of fights and now he knows kung fu to some degree so to try and present it as someone with fighting skills vs someone who doesnt know shit about fighting and only got speed advantage is false and incorrect to the highest degrees, spider man got the speed reflex spider sense and combat knowledge all that combined trumps iron fist skills by a mile , iron fist will get tagged and taken out because of that fact

if you repeat and say their feats are equel wont make it true, first you say their speed feats are almost equel then you come and say his speed feats plus the spider sense are equel? that already doesnt make any sense at all, show me feats of iron fist speedblitzing super human opponents with super human speed and avoid them with easy and then we talk

dude you dont know shit about iron fist let me educate you, first of all that guys remark is very valid , even if spider man is slightly faster than danny he still should be able to react to his punches, your statement of spider man hitting iron fist before he can react would be valid if spider man was so fast compared to iron fist to the point he would be frozen by the time spider man punch him which isnt the case, even if someone faster than you tags you , you still are able to move with the punch or roll with it as was stated in this thread, unless you believe spider man is so fast for danny to the point danny will be frozen by the time the punch lands

iron fist tanked punches from guys who are equel to spider man in strength or even stronger than him, its a well known fact that by chi amping himself iron fist can reach great degrees of durability, guys like luke cage couldnt knock him out and even got one shotted by him, he survived hits from far stronger guys than spider man, and if you believe there is something special that amp spider man punches aside of his strength then please provide us with the evidence

iron fist got the chi to amp his punches yes and as far as feats show us he is one shotting guys spider man never would or could, destroying a train and hellicarier is more then enough to take spider man because as we know by comics many guys took him out with inferior punching power than this, explosions took him out, scorpion and lizard took him out of course not with a single strike but still you cant compare the power of their hits and iron fist he is far superior in punching power

well perhaps he did a mistake by calling spider man untrained however you are doing to same, you are trying to present it as a guy with only skills and nothing but skills vs someone who is faster and has spider sense but thats not the case, iron fist also has speed either on par with spider man or slightly inferior and he also got the reflex to match spidy so while spidy got spider sense iron fist got skills which allow him to counter and predict opponent moves before they make them which is also some sort of spider sense

iron fist by speed feats was able to speedblitz trained martial artists and react to things such as bullets and machine gun fire all day long, perhaps spidy is indeed faster than iron fist but not the way you are trying to present it and it wont be such a big of difference.

i think i see your problem red sabre you think that danny is a street and therefor he must be treated as one, danny is on a whole different league and can easily hang with top dogs via skills and chi amp, people dont have problem with DC Comics Karate kid being in such incredible levels just by training but suddenly you got a problem with iron fist?

Originally posted by red sabre
you know what you wana play the straw game? fine i am in for it, spider man took multiple punches from savage hulk several times, prove that the iron fist hits harder than savage hulk

the fact 95% of the times he was taken out it was by people who are inferior to hulk in punching power i think its safe to say it doesnt take a hulk punch to take him out

Originally posted by red sabre
dude you dont know shit about iron fist let me educate you, first of all that guys remark is very valid , even if spider man is slightly faster than danny he still should be able to react to his punches, your statement of spider man hitting iron fist before he can react would be valid if spider man was so fast compared to iron fist to the point he would be frozen by the time spider man punch him which isnt the case, even if someone faster than you tags you , you still are able to move with the punch or roll with it as was stated in this thread, unless you believe spider man is so fast for danny to the point danny will be frozen by the time the punch lands

iron fist tanked punches from guys who are equel to spider man in strength or even stronger than him, its a well known fact that by chi amping himself iron fist can reach great degrees of durability, guys like luke cage couldnt knock him out and even got one shotted by him, he survived hits from far stronger guys than spider man, and if you believe there is something special that amp spider man punches aside of his strength then please provide us with the evidence

iron fist got the chi to amp his punches yes and as far as feats show us he is one shotting guys spider man never would or could, destroying a train and hellicarier is more then enough to take spider man because as we know by comics many guys took him out with inferior punching power than this, explosions took him out, scorpion and lizard took him out of course not with a single strike but still you cant compare the power of their hits and iron fist he is far superior in punching power

well perhaps he did a mistake by calling spider man untrained however you are doing to same, you are trying to present it as a guy with only skills and nothing but skills vs someone who is faster and has spider sense but thats not the case, iron fist also has speed either on par with spider man or slightly inferior and he also got the reflex to match spidy so while spidy got spider sense iron fist got skills which allow him to counter and predict opponent moves before they make them which is also some sort of spider sense

iron fist by speed feats was able to speedblitz trained martial artists and react to things such as bullets and machine gun fire all day long, perhaps spidy is indeed faster than iron fist but not the way you are trying to present it and it wont be such a big of difference.

i think i see your problem red sabre you think that danny is a street and therefor he must be treated as one, danny is on a whole different league and can easily hang with top dogs via skills and chi amp, people dont have problem with DC Comics Karate kid being in such incredible levels just by training but suddenly you got a problem with iron fist?

so now you want a piece of me red sabre? ok lets go for it

i never said iron fist will be frozen to spidy however what i did say was said and backed up by feats which shows us spider man is faster and that means by the time he lands a hit iron fist will take the hit, thats what being faster is all about, when someone is frozen to you thats not a being faster case already thats just a speedblitz, do i think spider man can speed blitz iron fist? no he cant, but i do believe he is faster to the point he punch iron fist fast enough for at least 1 hit to land and it should be such a big deal based on his showings completely speedblitzing guys with actual super human speed

iron fist also was taken out effected and stalemeted by guys far weaker than class 100 bricks or spider man, streets easily effected him with their strikes so yuo see your claim works both ways my friend, most of the times we see spider man holding back when punching so his punches are not a good indication, however we got few feats of him not holding back and busting iron man and hurting class 100 bricks along with breaking concrete walls like nothing, if we colculate the overall iron fist durability showing we will find out that more than not he is effected and even taken out by street levelers

as i said this is not a question of who is punching harder because all that matters is the fact spider man can take iron fist out as much as the other way around, so now you bring spider man being taken out by his foes? lets count all the times he fought and wasnt taken out by thing, namor, hulk, juggernaut , colossus, atc atc atc, and as far as i know his foes such as lizard or scorpion didnt really knock him out but always landed multiple hits on him and escaped , please provide the scans of them knocking him out, he took a hell punishment from rhino who destroys buildings with his hits with no trouble and yet he was able to take multiple hits by rhino and keep fighting like he was his equel

i didnt say that iron fist is only skilled, however spider man outmatch him in speed agility and got spider sense and some kung fu training so yeah its safe to give all those atributes to spider man and put it as his plus sides, his spider sense combined with his speed allows him to react at incredible speeds that supress even guys like miss marvel and speed demon, nothing iron fist can really supress

speedblitzing canon fodder ninjas and such cant compare to spider man blitzing super humans my friend ( not really my friend get lost)

you think you are some kind of physchologist? you see problems? dude i never said i have a problem with iron fist being on such high levels as long as its backed up by feats, his feats are good but not that good so start proving your points by feats

Originally posted by red sabre
the fact 95% of the times he was taken out it was by people who are inferior to hulk in punching power i think its safe to say it doesnt take a hulk punch to take him out

95%? did you colculated all his fights with guys such as rhino, iron man, thing, hulk, namor , juggernaut, atc atc? did you also colculate the fact even if some streets bested him they didnt knock him out? care to show me those 95% streets knocking him out?

dude i got to go to the gym right now for my training i will deal with you when i get back

yeah me too i also have to go to the gym i bet i can lift more than you can

Originally posted by red sabre
not in a fight? dude are you now trying to tell me that no one can knock out iron fist because he moves with the punch as you claim?

No, I'm trying to say Pete can't do it reliably with a single blow. Anyone significantly faster or with significantly more striking power is a different story.



You know this isn't my claim, right? This is a canonical part of the character. Practically every other fight he's had mentions at some point that an attack would have really hurt him had he not rolled with it. It's literally part of his skill set and he's done it against faster and stronger opponents.



Pete is slightly faster than Danny. That means he reacts slightly faster than Danny reacts; he moves slightly faster than Danny moves. It does NOT follow from these premises that he moves faster than Danny reacts.

This is why I think formal logic should be required in every high school curriculum. Anyway, Pete isn't blitzing Danny, which is what you're describing.



No, he can tank the punches you described, the ones that break concrete and whatnot, all day long. Those aren't Pete's best, which is why it was weird that you tried to make it sound impressive.

The rest of this spirals into a rant, you don't seem to see how analogies work, and your logic gets worse. So I'll cut it off here.

Also, I think it's fun that you can entertain yourself. But I think it's revealing that the red sabre who agrees with me is also the better speller.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
No, I'm trying to say Pete can't do it reliably with a single blow. Anyone significantly faster or with significantly more striking power is a different story.



You know this isn't my claim, right? This is a canonical part of the character. Practically every other fight he's had mentions at some point that an attack would have really hurt him had he not rolled with it. It's literally part of his skill set and he's done it against faster and stronger opponents.



Pete is slightly faster than Danny. That means he reacts slightly faster than Danny reacts; he moves slightly faster than Danny moves. It does NOT follow from these premises that he moves faster than Danny reacts.




This is why I think formal logic should be required in every high school curriculum. Anyway, Pete isn't blitzing Danny, which is what you're describing.



No, he can tank the punches you described, the ones that break concrete and whatnot, all day long. Those aren't Pete's best, which is why it was weird that you tried to make it sound impressive.

The rest of this spirals into a rant, you don't seem to see how analogies work, and your logic gets worse. So I'll cut it off here.

pete is fast enough to tag iron fist judging by feats and hits hard enough to knock him out judging by feats, saying spider man will take him punches all day long is just laughable

so once again going by your statements its something iron fist does all the time and basically no one aisde of super dooper pooper heroes cant knock him out? even if we use this as i already pointed out spider man will land a solid hit on him based on spider man being faster than him, also as i stated before its as valid as me presenting spider man avoiding hits with his spider sense and super human speed and then come and claim hey if he done it to characters A and B he is also going to do it to danny which is much more reasonable than vice versa because of the speed advantage + spider sense

he moves faster than danny and reacts faster than danny as they are the same , they are the movement itself in combat, spider man speedblitzing a group of super heroes is both speed feat and reaction time since both of them are his movement speed either if its counter or attack or what ever thats his speed, you can try and break it into as much categories as you would like but the fact remains the same, spider man is superior to iron fist in speed and dont bring me the slightly crap because we got spider man on panel speedblitzing people with super human speed and outmatching them in the speed department, until you post me iron fist doing anything like that spider man is not slightly above iron fist in speed but in a whole different league

pete is faster than iron fist and his shots will be landed sooner and the shots iron fist will try to land on him will be avoided and countered based on spider sense and superior speed feats

i was trying to say that even punches like that are enough for danny, however if we go and look at his more serious punches pete was able to bust iron mans armor with a punch and effect class 100 bricks , his punch will KO danny if danny is lucky if he is unlucky he gets a busted skull

my logic works perfectly combined with feats to back me up, you on the other hand do nothing but use childish remarks instead of proving your points which you cant prove in the first place because they dont exist, so you resurt to all kind of A hole remarks like some child

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Also, I think it's fun that you can entertain yourself. But I think it's revealing that the red sabre who agrees with me is also the better speller.

yeah its great how i showed you that i could represent iron fist much better than you and counter my own argument and then do it again for the other side

while i am not the best speller around here english is not my native language and isnt spoken in my country its a language i had to learn on my own would love to see you do the same with some other language and discuss on the levels i do with english at least

Originally posted by red sabre


he moves faster than danny and reacts faster than danny as they are the same

No, they're not.

Originally posted by red sabre

i was trying to say that even punches like that are enough for danny, however if we go and look at his more serious punches pete was able to bust iron mans armor with a punch and effect class 100 bricks , his punch will KO danny if danny is lucky if he is unlucky he gets a busted skull

Except Iron Fist won't just stand there and take it. You're acting like Spidey is so much faster than Danny, that he won't even be able to avoid, block, or roll with his attacks.

And fyi, Danny damaged War Machines armor without using an amped Iron Fist.

Originally posted by cdtm
Except Iron Fist won't just stand there and take it. You're acting like Spidey is so much faster than Danny, that he won't even be able to avoid, block, or roll with his attacks.

And fyi, Danny damaged War Machines armor without using an amped Iron Fist.

he doesnt have to be much faster than danny in order to at leasy place a clean shot on him, if anything you claim danny is faster than spider man because using your logic if spider man is able to touch the surface of iron fist body and iron fist immediately roll or avoid that punch that means his body movement is faster than that hit spider man was executing which is just false, even if they were at same speed still spider man would be able to place a clean shot at iron fist, your claim isnt backed up by anything aside of your iron fist bias and as i said already spider man got the feats to suggest he can speedblitz danny and i posted them already, saying danny this and that wont change anything, saying danny cant be hit by spider man because you think so again doesnt mean much.

Originally posted by red sabre
i..using your logic if spider man is able to touch the surface of iron fist body and iron fist immediately roll or avoid that punch that means his body movement is faster

No, it doesn't. There's more economy of motion to reacting to a punch than throwing one, obviously.

Originally posted by cdtm
No, it doesn't. There's more economy of motion to reacting to a punch than throwing one, obviously.

my point is valid, if iron fist missed a punch and is able to react to the one thrown at him with his entire body that means he is actually faster

No, it doesn't.

you know i am right

Afraid not. ^_^

Good defense isn't only about body speed. Even a large, relatively slower man can slip or roll with a punch from a quicker man if he has good training and sharp reflexes.

You don't need to be as fast as a thrown baseball, to hit the ball, do you? Or to avoid being beaned by one?

Originally posted by cdtm
Afraid not. ^_^

Good defense isn't only about body speed. Even a large, relatively slower man can slip or roll with a punch from a quicker man if he has good training and sharp reflexes.

You don't need to be as fast as a thrown baseball, to hit the ball, do you? Or to avoid being beaned by one?

you cant compare a baseball and this thing, a baseball comming at you from a fair distance and you prepare for it watching at the direction its thrown at you and already see the ball in straight line comming towards you from a distance thats already irrelevant, we are talking about 2 guys trading blows one guy is using an opening and slide in a punch which cant hit the other guy because even with the fact he just missed that punch he is able to react in half of the time the punch is thrown at and just roll with it with his whole body movement, that means he is actually faster than the puncher himself which cant be in this case

spider-man is faster than danny. Just look at his speed feat in the gauntlet against alyosha kravinoff with a sniper gun at close range.

No.

why not?

edit: wait my bad, its grim hunt

I don't want to.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't want to.

Found this little gem in my Heroes for Hire reading:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/HeroesForHire3019.jpg

This is why any speed advantage Spidey has won't matter much. Area attacks, and he can take the ground right out from under him.

And this also isn't the first, or only time, Danny's used his Iron Fist to attack someone indirectly.

Spider-man can do the same trick. But frankly I don't see it working on either of them, both are too fast to fall victim to a collapsing floor. And Spider-man can run on walls and has webbing. Not to mention we're talking about a guy who can dodge an explosion after the bomb goes off and at point blanc range.

Fanboy.

Originally posted by SamZED
Spider-man can do the same trick./B]

Spidey can create a shockwave of ki? O_o

There's a little more to that scan than Danny taking out the floor.

He can create A shockwave.

I honestly dont think such an attack will be a game changer. Also Spider-man has better range options.

Originally posted by SamZED
He can create A shockwave.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/AmazingSpider-Manv254kebbin18.jpg

Impressive.

But also not really the same thing, as Spidey's shockwave is simply a byproduct of hitting his opponent really hard, while Danny has combat feats with his:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/PowerManIronFist054-18.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/PowerManIronFist054-19.jpg

Here, Danny knocks the entire room down, including Luke Cage.

Not to mention, Danny can area chi attack by punching at thin air, unlike Spidey.

Danny just took a cheapshot attack from Sunspot (that knocked Surfer through the wall) and KO'ed him.

Didn't see that one yet. O_o

Also, my scans are another example of Danny's speed, as his actions, and thoughts, occur within .04 of a second.

Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't see that one yet. O_o

Also, my scans are another example of Danny's speed, as his actions, and thoughts, occur within .04 of a second.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_013.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_014.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_015.jpg

Fist is clearly acknowledged as a cosmic heavyweight now.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_013.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_014.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_015.jpg

Fist is clearly acknowledged as a cosmic heavyweight now.

So, Danny's awesome now? Don't get me wrong, he was pretty awesome in Immortal Iron Fist but still seemed to spend most of his time getting his ass whooped.

Have avoided post-IIF Danny because I couldn't bear to see him written by anyone other than Bru.

Originally posted by -V-
So, Danny's awesome now? Don't get me wrong, he was pretty awesome in Immortal Iron Fist but still seemed to spend most of his time getting his ass whooped.

Have avoided post-IIF Danny because I couldn't bear to see him written by anyone other than Bru. More awesome.

He's downed a helicarrier, destroyed that train that would have made hiroshima look like a sparkler, took down the Thor clone, and was beating up Gorgon.

Among other things.

Although I think the hiroshima train was in that series.

this is a good match up, I can't choose

they're both good characters

Yeah, "makes hiroshima look like sparkler" train was in the series.

And if Bru Iron Fist is your thing, he did a little more with him in Daredevil.

Really disappointed he didn't utilize Black Tarantula more though. Lot of hype in his revival, but he pretty much just sits on the sidelines or runs errands for the main characters..

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, it was in the series.

And if Bru Iron Fist is your thing, he did a little more with him in Daredevil. That reminds me of him superpunching the dick out of Shadowlands DD.

Originally posted by -V-
So, Danny's awesome now? Don't get me wrong, he was pretty awesome in Immortal Iron Fist but still seemed to spend most of his time getting his ass whooped.

Have avoided post-IIF Danny because I couldn't bear to see him written by anyone other than Bru.

Iron Fist's actually not character raped by Bendis when he writes him and he's been pretty impressive in Defenders under Fraction, too.

Being able to maintain levels of awesome while written by Bendis and Fraction is a feat unto itself.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Danny just took a cheapshot attack from Sunspot (that knocked Surfer through the wall) and KO'ed him.

Wow, I'm tired of Surfer jobbing when he is paired with other heroes.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_013.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_014.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/NewMutants44_015.jpg

Fist is clearly acknowledged as a cosmic heavyweight now.

I thought you said Surfer was koed? If so then that would have been some Pissy shiz.

Originally posted by h1a8
I thought you said Surfer was koed? If so then that would have been some Pissy shiz. You don't have any basic reading comprehension, that's why you're confused.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
You don't have any basic reading comprehension, that's why you're confused.

I lack it too - where was Surfer KOed?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Danny just took a cheapshot attack from Sunspot (that knocked Surfer through the wall) and KO'ed him.

Notice how I talk about Surfer in brackets, and describe the events that happened with Sunspot/Fist?

No where did I say Surfer was KO'ed. Learn to read IMO.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Notice how I talk about Surfer in brackets, and describe the events that happened with Sunspot/Fist?

No where did I say Surfer was KO'ed. Learn to read IMO.

Reading comprehension and basic grammar FTW. I'ma fool.

parker still