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Not sure if this has been done, but I'm curious what are the arguments for or against Thor being able to defend himself against such an attack

From who?

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Superman/Supermanv2172pg13.jpg

idk how well Thor would respond to something like this. Thor isn't "slow" obviously but as far as to how well he could respond to it I don't see it favoring him. He could use an omni blast for some damage/stun then come in with Mjolnir and bring the pain but as far as countering a blitz with the speed of his limbs...I'm not sure I'll see it happening.

But Then again it could turn out like this also:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/DefeatsHyperion5.jpg?t=1295073974

Thor would take the initial hit but counter it and stop the blitz before it expanded. Depends on the situation/whos blitzing I guess.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Not sure if this has been done, but I'm curious what are the arguments for or against Thor being able to defend himself against such an attack


When you say speed blitz, how fast is the character capable of moving? Also how well did Mongoose do keeping in mind that a Superman type may be capable of moving many times faster. I recall that Masterson Thor probably would have lost to Gladiator if he Glads was not distracted that is if I'm remembering correctly.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Not sure if this has been done, but I'm curious what are the arguments for or against Thor being able to defend himself against such an attack

Yes. He's had SS blitz him before as well as other very fast characters.

So when you see the Mongoose nonsense , just remember what = PIS .

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/DefeatsHyperion5.jpg?t=1295073974

What comic is this from?

Don't think he will survive something like this either.

http://m1143.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/carver9/303862-nappagoku5_super.jpg.html?o=10

Originally posted by Stoic
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/DefeatsHyperion5.jpg?t=1295073974

What comic is this from?

Don't remember, but I have it.

Originally posted by Damborgson
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Superman/Supermanv2172pg13.jpg

idk how well Thor would respond to something like this. Thor isn't "slow" obviously but as far as to how well he could respond to it I don't see it favoring him. He could use an omni blast for some damage/stun then come in with Mjolnir and bring the pain but as far as countering a blitz with the speed of his limbs...I'm not sure I'll see it happening.

But Then again it could turn out like this also:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/DefeatsHyperion5.jpg?t=1295073974

Thor would take the initial hit but counter it and stop the blitz before it expanded. Depends on the situation/whos blitzing I guess.

I think Thor would do well against that blitz.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think he will survive something like this either.

http://m1143.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/carver9/303862-nappagoku5_super.jpg.html?o=10


Man that pic is so small that i can't make it out. lol.

a speedblitz from a superman level character

Originally posted by Stoic
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/DefeatsHyperion5.jpg?t=1295073974

What comic is this from? arhhhhggg >_< I just read this a while ago. Its Busiek/Perez but I can't remember the issue #.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
Don't remember, but I have it.


When you find out could you let me know? I mean just PM me if you if you could.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
a speedblitz from a superman level character

SS fast enough for ya ?

Originally posted by Stoic
When you find out could you let me know? I mean just PM me if you if you could.

Yeah, sure.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think he will survive something like this either.

http://m1143.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/carver9/303862-nappagoku5_super.jpg.html?o=10 How strong was Goku at that time? He had just finished training with King Kai if i remember right.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
Yeah, sure.


That Perez/Busiek Avengers era was amazing. I wish they could move back in that direction.

Some people didn't consider this a speed blitz but these are the only scans I have of Thor responding to a potential speed blitz.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-11-9.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-12-9.jpg

Originally posted by Badabing
Some people didn't consider this a speed blitz but these are the only scans I have of Thor responding to a potential speed blitz.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-11-9.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-12-9.jpg

I think that it can be argued that his initial speed in that scan could be less than the top speed that he would attain at further distance. You know the 0-60 rule.

Pretty much depends on who's writing him.

Originally posted by Stoic
I think that it can be argued that his initial speed in that scan could be less than the top speed that he would attain at further distance. You know the 0-60 rule.

0-60 rule?

isn't it just called, 'acceleration'?

vin

Originally posted by Stoic
That Perez/Busiek Avengers era was amazing. I wish they could move back in that direction.

Agreed. I'm almost sure the comic is Avengers: Supreme Justice.

Originally posted by Stoic
I think that it can be argued that his initial speed in that scan could be less than the top speed that he would attain at further distance. You know the 0-60 rule. Yeah. I just go by the art. Tony was looking like a streak of light before and after the hammer swatted him. So I'd think he was going pretty fast.

Originally posted by Badabing
Yeah. I just go by the art. Tony was looking like a streak of light before and after the hammer swatted him. So I'd think he was going pretty fast.

The weird thing is that Thor swatted Tony to his left, but he flew off to his right.



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-12-9.jpg

Originally posted by CosmicComet
0-60 rule?

isn't it just called, 'acceleration'?

vin

I heard about the rule on the news years ago lol, so I saw a perfect opening to exercise the saying.

Originally posted by Badabing
Yeah. I just go by the art. Tony was looking like a streak of light before and after the hammer swatted him. So I'd think he was going pretty fast. Tony was about 60feet away before the blitz so I would that he reached bullet speed tops, which is still fast. But Thor has much better feats to say that he could definitely respond to a fast straight-dumb attack from 30 or more feet away (probably even light speed). But changing directions based off what is being seen of Thor is much different. Also a speedblitz is not necessarily a bull rush (a straight dumb attack). I'm thinking the OP meant a complex fast attack where the attacker is attacking from all angles vs. just bull rushing straight into Thor from more than 30ft away.

Originally posted by Scoobless
The weird thing is that Thor swatted Tony to his left, but he flew off to his right.



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-12-9.jpg It makes perfect sense. You're weird! sneer

Originally posted by Don Corleone
Yes. He's had SS blitz him before as well as other very fast characters.

So when you see the Mongoose nonsense , just remember what = PIS . SS combat speed has never really impressed me in terms of rapid fire aggression. So if his initial WTF I CAME AT WARPSPEED RAPE YOU attack fails his speed tends to drop drastically in terms of focusing on a speedblitzing attack.

depends on which streak is IM coming to Thor and which is away...

because the higher streak is going upwards I assume it is the away streak, which means the direction away is weird.

Superman has pretty insane combat speed and uses his powers in a way that would be difficult for most HH to defend against when he uses his speed. Initially I don't think that thor would be capable of responding to that type of speedblitz (especially not immediately). A linear one? Sure. One where supes all out kung-fu assaults him--unlikely.

Is this an insta-win? No, but it's certainly a dangerous technique.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think he will survive something like this either.

http://m1143.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/carver9/303862-nappagoku5_super.jpg.html?o=10

Are you serious.

We know that supes is capable of reacting at lightspeed at least, and thor shouldn't be far behind imo, but never has anyone (including you) proved that a DBZ character is capable of lightspeed travel, reaction, or combat, much less faster. So to supes and thor, they're statues. Especially that version of Goku.

carver is hyping up Dragonball again? Nothing has change in the new year

Originally posted by iceman24567
carver is hyping up Dragonball again? Nothing has change in the new year

Agreed lol. I like it how superman was doing the exact same thing in the scan as Goku, but has consistent refs to gauge the speed that he's capable of moving at, but somehow thor can react to him, but not Goku....

Yall mad as hell.

Thor would not be able to deal with the speed of that type of character. His speed is decent... for a brick but it isn't on par with a speedster.

And no, being able to fight Silver Surfer is not evidence that he is.

Thor might be able to react to a single pounce/attack from a character with significant speed but he doesn't operate on a level that allows him to deal with someone unloading on him in speedster fashion. You're talking about a guy that was getting the tar beat out of him by the friggin Thunderbolts.

Well considering BRB who has the same powers was able to react to and fight against Surfer at massively FTL speeds in Godhunter I'd say he could take an attempted speedblitz by Superman.

Originally posted by Stoic
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/DefeatsHyperion5.jpg?t=1295073974

What comic is this from?

If you haven't already found it, that was Avengers #5, 3rd vol from 1998 (Busiek's run).

NO thor cant react to a speedblitz from superman level, Thor got blitzed by Gladiator, Hyperion, and by SS, Masterson Thor got blitzed by spider-man, wolverine was too fast for thor to the point thor had to use his lightning as against spider-man, and while wolverine is very fast he is still not comming close to superman level speed so basically we got a hell of a lot cases when Thor couldnt react to speedblitzing so i am asking myself and you why the hell is it still a question? this case is very clear that Thor while being strong and versatile is taking a big fall at speed when facing all kind of superman clowns and even some streets

Not seen any evidence of Thor being able to take a speedblitz from an FTL capable character.

Surfer engages in battle, rather than attempting to blitz people. That's why he only blitzes multiple targets (ie blitzing whole armadas), rather than a single foe.

Then again, he does have an instance of taking the piss out of Deathurge(?) by blasting and circling him (and monologueing him) at FTL.

I don't think I've ever seen Thor speedblock or counterblitz. Ever. The only multiple-image shot of Thor I can recall is when he dug a furrow around a volcano. So I'm gonna say, if a strong-enough, speedblitzing opponent does get in close, if he can get through/bypass Thor's initial defense, Thor's done. On the other hand, Thor has successfully blocked bullrush or rapid ranged attacks, so getting in close won't be easy.

Of course, this also depends on what the story demands.

this is my argument for thor, mjolnir is not a power ring, a super computer, or a sentient weapon. Its simply a magic hammer. Now if thor can swing mjolnir ftl a multiple targets then he himself must have uber reflexes since he has enough reaction time feats to back it up.

I can swing an object far faster than I can move. I don't think that have anything to do with reflexes...it circles around strength.

Originally posted by carver9
I can swing an object far faster than I can move. I don't think that have anything to do with reflexes...it circles around strength.

are u swinging that object at multiple objects carver? it has nothing to to with strength if u r parrying and reflecting.

There is also this:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed18a428.jpg

Speed of thought and all that jazz...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There is also this:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed18a428.jpg

Speed of thought and all that jazz... The thing is Thor appears in 1000+ comics and 1 good showing doesn't mean much. I know he has more, I can tell Quicksilver (relatively recently), the Volcano feat and the one above my post but considering his low showings I personally tend to label the high showings PIS instead of the low showings, every Thor fan can feel free to post more high showings to change my mind though.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The thing is Thor appears in 1000+ comics and 1 good showing doesn't mean much. I know he has more, I can tell Quicksilver (relatively recently), the Volcano feat and the one above my post but considering his low showings I personally tend to label the high showings PIS instead of the low showings, every Thor fan can feel free to post more high showings to change my mind though.

True, but then, how often does Thor fight speedster bricks (like Superman, for example)?

Also, I just posted that scan as Sin recently posted a topic debating speedsters vs mental attacks, and I thought this was pertinent.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17bMCP44.jpg


stolen from on dumb

Originally posted by Sin I AM
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17bMCP44.jpg


stolen from on dumb

How fast was that blast?

^^energy based attack carver so presumably light speed, hard to determine, but he did react AFTER Enchantress blasted Steve

another example


http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed21475.jpg

Originally posted by Sin I AM
this is my argument for thor, mjolnir is not a power ring, a super computer, or a sentient weapon. Its simply a magic hammer. Now if thor can swing mjolnir ftl a multiple targets then he himself must have uber reflexes since he has enough reaction time feats to back it up.

I remember in one book it was stated that he moves faster than the eye can see.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
^^energy based attack carver so presumably light speed, hard to determine, but he did react AFTER Enchantress blasted Steve

another example


http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed21475.jpg

I'm about to PM you something. As for the scan in this post...nice ft...she was still seeable to the necked eye but Thor did stop someone going at super speed.

Am I misinterpreting what a speedblitz is? Except for that first scan with Superman all over Imperiex/his probe, every other scan looks more like a bullrush/single fast attack. Obviously Thor can counter those. But what about an opponent who would be all over him with rapid multiple strikes (eg, Spider-Man/Masterson Thor)? Isn't that what a speedblitz is? That's what I think Thor would have trouble with, provided the opponent gets through an initial defense.

Maybe Thor is so good at blocking initial attacks because he couldn't handle what would happen if the opponent got through.

Originally posted by Mindship
Am I misinterpreting what a speedblitz is? Except for that first scan with Superman all over Imperiex/his probe, every other scan looks more like a bullrush/single fast attack. Obviously Thor can counter those. But what about an opponent who would be all over him with rapid multiple strikes (eg, Spider-Man/Masterson Thor)? Isn't that what a speedblitz is? That's what I think Thor would have trouble with, provided the opponent gets through an initial defense.

Maybe Thor is so good at blocking initial attacks because he couldn't handle what would happen if the opponent got through.

Originally posted by Mindship
Am I misinterpreting what a speedblitz is? Except for that first scan with Superman all over Imperiex/his probe, every other scan looks more like a bullrush/single fast attack. Obviously Thor can counter those. But what about an opponent who would be all over him with rapid multiple strikes (eg, Spider-Man/Masterson Thor)? Isn't that what a speedblitz is? That's what I think Thor would have trouble with, provided the opponent gets through an initial defense.

Maybe Thor is so good at blocking initial attacks because he couldn't handle what would happen if the opponent got through.

See, the problem with this is that Thor usually swings that hammer beyond light right in front of him. So, an opponent would be hard pressed to go through such a defense. Thus is why I think not many have been able to blitz him with multiple shots coming from all over.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
See, the problem with this is that Thor usually swings that hammer beyond light right in front of him. So, an opponent would be hard pressed to go through such a defense. Thus is why I think not many have been able to blitz him with multiple shots coming from all over. This is the conclusion I'm coming to. But (if I may nitpick), no matter how fast Thor swings Mjolnir "right in front of him," a blitz-capable foe could suddenly veer to launch a lateral attack.

Thor's best bet (IMO): if he knows an opponent can/will launch a speedblitz, unleash an omnidirectional blast or set up a whirlwind forcefield so that all angles of attack are covered and/or the foe immediately counterattacked.

Yes, he can.

Against a slower (but still fast in the general sense) character, Thor has the reflexes to wind up hitting them with a typical Mjolnir strike/throw. Against someone exceptionally fast, he can release an omni-directional blast, use weather manipulation, or quake the ground if they're not flying at him. If he wasn't able to use his powers and could only rely on physical attacks, he could be in trouble, though.

A speedblitz against Thor doesn't equate to him auto-losing.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
this is my argument for thor, mjolnir is not a power ring, a super computer, or a sentient weapon. Its simply a magic hammer. Now if thor can swing mjolnir ftl a multiple targets then he himself must have uber reflexes since he has enough reaction time feats to back it up. It's been suggested multiple times that the hammer's speed is a byproduct of the hammers magic.

what people seem to forget is that Marvel doesn't portray speedsters in the same way DC does, with the exception of quicksilver and northstar...so u'd be hard-pressed to find a character speedblitzing another when they r herald level

You'll need a tank who's also capable of no-selling Thor's defensive attack, for a true speedblitz.

For example, Quicksilver probably could do a speedblitz like in the OP. But if Thor parries the first punch with Mjolnir (and we've just seen him capable of doing so), and that parry connects with Quicksilver - well, he ain't exactly capable of recovering from a hammer to the face to throw a second punch.

If Thor is able to react to punch #1, it means he's faster reflex-wise than the original puncher. So I don't think the puncher will be able to then react, and do a second punch.

And as I said before, there aren't many speedster bricks who could tank the first parry/punch and yet be fast enough to out-react Thor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There is also this:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed18a428.jpg

Speed of thought and all that jazz...

Isn't a good example. Her blast is a manefestation of her power. There's no proof of the speed of that attack after it manefests into a physical state, but honestly, we've seen X-men react to psy bolts etc.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17bMCP44.jpg


stolen from on dumb
Again we have to have an idea of how fast that energy was sent flying. Did Thor throw the hammer after she shot it? How much of that feat is attributable to the hammer itself?

Originally posted by Mindship
Am I misinterpreting what a speedblitz is? Except for that first scan with Superman all over Imperiex/his probe, every other scan looks more like a bullrush/single fast attack. Obviously Thor can counter those. But what about an opponent who would be all over him with rapid multiple strikes (eg, Spider-Man/Masterson Thor)? Isn't that what a speedblitz is? That's what I think Thor would have trouble with, provided the opponent gets through an initial defense.

Maybe Thor is so good at blocking initial attacks because he couldn't handle what would happen if the opponent got through.

thumbsup
EXACTLY.
This is why we've seen Thor explicitly state things like Balder being faster than him in combat.

Originally posted by jinzin
It's been suggested multiple times that the hammer's speed is a byproduct of the hammers magic.


but his reaction speed must still be fast enough to react an initial attack


I have a magic hammer in my hand. someone shoots at me with a laser. I must first think of a proper defense, and lift my hammer to block, without me taking action, i will get shot, then u have to take into account if said attacker shoots multiple times

Originally posted by Sin I AM
but his reaction speed must still be fast enough to react an initial attack


I have a magic hammer in my hand. someone shoots at me with a laser. I must first think of a proper defense, and lift my hammer to block, without me taking action, i will get shot, then u have to take into account if said attacker shoots multiple times

This scan goes well with your post.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/fantasticfourv133918.jpg/

Originally posted by Sin I AM
this is my argument for thor, mjolnir is not a power ring, a super computer, or a sentient weapon. Its simply a magic hammer. Now if thor can swing mjolnir ftl a multiple targets then he himself must have uber reflexes since he has enough reaction time feats to back it up. Mjonlir is quasi sentient though..

it can store memories, experience and communicate through emotions and images.. plus, it does what its told on its own as well...

Thor has bn shown to have mach level speed reflex.
he has stated that he can move and perceive beyond mortal eyes and than showed it.
he has also moved, ran or whatever in front of the path of his own thrown hammer.

I think Thor can respond to mach level blitz attacks from the likes of Quicksilver prior to upgrades but, not the Flash level frozen in time speed blitz ftl attack blitz.

on another note I dont see the superman scan as being ftl but a low level blitz, it just looks more impressive due to the heat vision, ice breath and supes potential speed. i look at it more as a low mach faster than human eye attack that various slight superhumans could pull off... I think Thor can easily respond to it if he isnt caught off guard and respond in kind..

Originally posted by carver9
I can swing an object far faster than I can move. I don't think that have anything to do with reflexes...it circles around strength.

When an MLB pitcher is throwing a baseball at 100 mph, his fingers are indeed moving at 100 mph relative to the ground just as he is throwing the ball too.

People can move their limbs faster than they can run.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Mjonlir is quasi sentient though..

it can store memories, experience and communicate through emotions and images.. plus, it does what its told on its own as well...

Thor has bn shown to have mach level speed reflex.
he has stated that he can move and perceive beyond mortal eyes and than showed it.
he has also moved, ran or whatever in front of the path of his own thrown hammer.

I think Thor can respond to mach level blitz attacks from the likes of Quicksilver prior to upgrades but, not the Flash level frozen in time speed blitz ftl attack blitz.

on another note I dont see the superman scan as being ftl but a low level blitz, it just looks more impressive due to the heat vision, ice breath and supes potential speed. i look at it more as a low mach faster than human eye attack that various slight superhumans could pull off... I think Thor can easily respond to it if he isnt caught off guard and respond in kind..

I agre 100% with this. Example...look at the scan below.. Spiderman initial blitz looks far more impressive than what Superman did in the imperiex scan. I think Thor could react to the blitz in the scan with Imperiex (not saying Spiderman is faster than Supes) but countering someone like Flash, it aint happening.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3615/34op.jpg

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, he can.

Against a slower (but still fast in the general sense) character, Thor has the reflexes to wind up hitting them with a typical Mjolnir strike/throw. Against someone exceptionally fast, he can release an omni-directional blast, use weather manipulation, or quake the ground if they're not flying at him. If he wasn't able to use his powers and could only rely on physical attacks, he could be in trouble, though.

A speedblitz against Thor doesn't equate to him auto-losing.
Also, you must know that it takes proof for Thor to pull off exotic powers in the nanosecond range. His entire history suggests that it takes a fraction of a second to several seconds to pull things like that off.

But Thor only did omnidirectional attacks when he was either smothered by multiple enemies or attacked by multiple enemies. I doubt he would think of it when fighting one opponent (even when losing).

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Mjonlir is quasi sentient though..

it can store memories, experience and communicate through emotions and images.. plus, it does what its told on its own as well...


scans?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
but his reaction speed must still be fast enough to react an initial attack


I have a magic hammer in my hand. someone shoots at me with a laser. I must first think of a proper defense, and lift my hammer to block, without me taking action, i will get shot, then u have to take into account if said attacker shoots multiple times

Fair enough.... But..


Even every street level has these types of feats.
We can sit around and pretend that Thor's feats are somehow more legitimate but at the end of the day they ARE feats reproduced by every comic hero worth his salt.

That's why his in-fight performances matter so much vs. random one-off feats of deflecting a bullet or lazer fire.
Fact is, if you're going to try and assert that Thor's hammer moving at FTL speed is somehow a reflection of his physical abilities then you first have to ignore the fact that the speed of his hammer has been stated on panel as being a byproduct of magic AND THEN you should be able to find comparible feats of Thor doing the same things without the hammer. That isn't really the case.

Alternatively, Thor has a ton of old comics where his speed is cataloged on panel second by second when he's seperated from his hammer and frankly none of those instances ever impressed.

Originally posted by jinzin
Fair enough.... But..


Even every street level has these types of feats.
We can sit around and pretend that Thor's feats are somehow more legitimate but at the end of the day they ARE feats reproduced by every comic hero worth his salt.

That's why his in-fight performances matter so much vs. random one-off feats of deflecting a bullet or lazer fire.
Fact is, if you're going to try and assert that Thor's hammer moving at FTL speed is somehow a reflection of his physical abilities then you first have to ignore the fact that the speed of his hammer has been stated on panel as being a byproduct of magic AND THEN you should be able to find comparible feats of Thor doing the same things without the hammer. That isn't really the case.

Alternatively, Thor has a ton of old comics where his speed is cataloged on panel second by second when he's seperated from his hammer and frankly none of those instances ever impressed.

Good argument, and that would be the case if not for except Thor is rarely depicted sans hammer...

Thank you... Only... He's had a number of times he's depicted sans hammer... Next time he blitzes the Hulk in a fist fight let me know.

That's because Hulk moves faster than light

Originally posted by jinzin
Thank you... Only... He's had a number of times he's depicted sans hammer... Next time he blitzes the Hulk in a fist fight let me know.

thats not how he fights...he's a brawler, and speedblitzing isnt something marvel top tiers do

Originally posted by Parmaniac
That's because Hulk moves faster than light

Marvel does give him a 7/7 for speed on their website afterall

biscuits

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Marvel does give him a 7/7 for speed on their website afterall

biscuits

That's for traveling speed and dimensional travel. But I get your joke.

Definitely.

I know that speed feats can sometimes be hard to quantify but even so, some feats really do speak for themselves.


http://http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8893/ccf0426201100000.th.jpg


http://http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7882/ccf0102201200000.th.jpg


Difference anyone

Superman is apparently fapping while he's catching automatic rifle fire. That's the difference. The superior feat clearly.

from someone like Supes or Flash..he can't..Thor doesn't have super speed..it'll be stupid if he can actually react to them if they go all out with their speed..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
from someone like Supes or Flash..he can't..Thor doesn't have super speed..it'll be stupid if he can actually react to them if they go all out with their speed.. i think it is funny that Thor has bn stated more than once by narrators and his opponents and even himself that he has the speed of the lightning that he commands.


they should show it more in artistic depiction with blurs and after images.. rather than a fist fight where he pounds someone down and he looks like he is moving at normal human speed.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
scans? nope.

u can find one or two where Mjolnir chases and follows an opponent and avoiding ppl...

Mjolnir finding its own way back to earth or asgard after a cosmic battle... I believe one of the last time was when doom was in hell and saw Mjolnir traversing reality.

Doom felt the Drama and battle that had occurred during the death of the gods.

Thor has used Mjonlir to project images like holograms.. the last time iirc was the guy who wanted Thor to revive his daughter.

Beta Ray Bill himself has said that the Odin Power that resides within his own hammer has memories and emotions of who Galactus was and even told BRB Galactus name through impression of course.

The Hammer can actually decide on its own of who can lift and hold it even to the point where Thor, BRB could be deprived of their power if their cause is not just.

like i said, its Quasi Sentient.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
nope.

u can find one or two where Mjolnir chases and follows an opponent and avoiding ppl...

Mjolnir finding its own way back to earth or asgard after a cosmic battle... I believe one of the last time was when doom was in hell and saw Mjolnir traversing reality.

Doom felt the Drama and battle that had occurred during the death of the gods.

Thor has used Mjonlir to project images like holograms.. the last time iirc was the guy who wanted Thor to revive his daughter.

Beta Ray Bill himself has said that the Odin Power that resides within his own hammer has memories and emotions of who Galactus was and even told BRB Galactus name through impression of course.

The Hammer can actually decide on its own of who can lift and hold it even to the point where Thor, BRB could be deprived of their power if their cause is not just.

like i said, its Quasi Sentient.


by that description a lantern ring is quasi-sentient...which it is not

Thor can respond to speedsters.He already punked the Olympian God of speed Hermes.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed16Avengers281.jpg

How fast is Hermes?This scan speaks for itself.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/581/herc61019copy.jpg

And Thor himself has his fair share of speed shananigans.Pluto's minions telling the ThunderGod seems everywhere.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8906/thor19912.th.jpg

Originally posted by Igniz
Thor can respond to speedsters.He already punked the Olympian God of speed Hermes.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed16Avengers281.jpg

How fast is Hermes?This scan speaks for itself.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/581/herc61019copy.jpg

And Thor himself has his fair share of speed shananigans.Pluto's minions telling the ThunderGod seems everywhere.

LOL Hermes wasn't even knowing Thor was chasing him and probably wasn't going anywhere near his best speed or in random motion (more linear motion).
Also, chasing someone from behind has NOTHING to do with responding to a speedblitz for several reasons (like one is relative velocity). Thor blocking energy attacks and bullets are better feats than that.

Thor has no feats to show that he can respond to a speedblitz (not bullrush), other than blocking or slightly evading energy attacks from 30 or more feat away.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
i think it is funny that Thor has bn stated more than once by narrators and his opponents and even himself that he has the speed of the lightning that he commands.


they should show it more in artistic depiction with blurs and after images.. rather than a fist fight where he pounds someone down and he looks like he is moving at normal human speed.

he had a hard time against Wolverine and says Wolverine is fast..Thor doesn't have super speed..it's not in his powerset..but he can fly very fast with Mjonlir..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
he had a hard time against Wolverine and says Wolverine is fast..Thor doesn't have super speed..it's not in his powerset..but he can fly very fast with Mjonlir..


that was a low howing

Originally posted by Sin I AM
that was a low howing



Thor isn't a speedster in combat.
He's been eluded by cobra due to speed issues. He's been bewildered by Cap, outstruck by Cap. Admitted inferiority to Balder, couldn't contend with the speed of Mongoose who couldn't contend with the speed of Spiderman who out and out blitzed Masterson Thor. This isn't an example of one showing contrasted by an entire career of fighting and beating opponents who fight faster than Wolverine because of speed. Again this is the guy who routinely fist fights with Hulk, Herc, and Nafaria. He doesn't run around blitzing people.

Originally posted by jinzin


Thor isn't a speedster in combat.
He's been eluded by cobra due to speed issues. He's been bewildered by Cap, outstruck by Cap. Admitted inferiority to Balder, couldn't contend with the speed of Mongoose who couldn't contend with the speed of Spiderman who out and out blitzed Masterson Thor. This isn't an example of one showing contrasted by an entire career of fighting and beating opponents who fight faster than Wolverine because of speed. Again this is the guy who routinely fist fights with Hulk, Herc, and Nafaria. He doesn't run around blitzing people.

And yet Thor also has plenty of showings depicting him as being able to move and react at super speeds.

He has been mentioned to move faster than the eye can see, move as fast as the lightning he commands, dig trenches at speeds that he is a blur, react to instantaneous mental attacks attacks, react to lasers and energy beams, mentioned to move so fast that he seems to be everywhere, move at dazzling speeds (what ever the shit that means) and so on and so forth. Hell, he was even able to dodge his own hammer.

Mentioning a bunch of low end feats does not cancel out his higher end speed feats nor does me, mentioning a bunch of his higher end feats cancel out his low end feats.

On average, he is fast enough to react to super speed attacks and bull rushes. If he doesn't block or dodge that initial super speed assault, he is durable enough to tack some hits and react and counter accordingly.

And yes, I agree, Thor to my knowledge, has never been shown to be a speedster in combat. IMO, he can react to light speed attacks and speed blitz, but move at those speeds? Nah.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Thor has bn shown to have mach level speed reflex.
he has stated that he can move and perceive beyond mortal eyes and than showed it.
he has also moved, ran or whatever in front of the path of his own thrown hammer.

I think Thor can respond to mach level blitz attacks from the likes of Quicksilver prior to upgrades but, not the Flash level frozen in time speed blitz ftl attack blitz.

Yeah, this is kind of how I see it. He is capable of movement faster than the normal human eye can see (which isn't that fast anyway), but I don't believe he is capable of actually running faster than the eye can see, though his running speed would be superhuman.

I think he is capable of reacting to and defending himself against a classic Quicksilver-level blitz, but this is partly because he can tank a few blows while doing so.

But I really don't think Thor stands a chance against the crazy DC-level speedblitz, where the characters like Flash, Supes, WW, MM etc are moving so fast they are circling the globe in the time it takes a normal person to utter a single syllable of speech, or can evacuate an entire city in half a second carrying two people at a time, or basically carrying out entire conversations and fights while regular people are perceived as statues. Honestly, if Supes was launching a blitz of Kryptonian-level punches on Thor at that speed, Thor would be dead. And I say that as someone who is more of an Avengers/Thor reader (pre-Bendis) than Superman reader. Though I have read a lot of JLA and some Superman over the years.

I don't like the DC level speedsters that much because of this - they're just too ridiculous for the plots to survive without heavy PIS/CIS (though I do admit to liking those over-the-top Grant Morrison JLAs which featured a lot of that stuff).

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
And yes, I agree, Thor to my knowledge, has never been shown to be a speedster in combat. IMO, he can react to light speed attacks and speed blitz, but move at those speeds? Nah.

u can't react to light speed attack if u don't have speed close or equal to lighspeed..and Thor doesn't have that kinda speed..not even close..it's ridiculous to think he can react to it..maybe he can in a comic..but this is a forum..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
u can't react to light speed attack if u don't have speed close or equal to lighspeed..and Thor doesn't have that kinda speed..not even close..it's ridiculous to think he can react to it..maybe he can in a comic..but this is a forum..

People can react to things far faster than they can move their bodies. I can hit a ball travelling at 80mph, but I can't run that fast.

Originally posted by -Pr-
People can react to things far faster than they can move their bodies. I can hit a ball travelling at 80mph, but I can't run that fast.

that ball is moving straight..u can predict its path..speedblitz is not like that..and u can't compare 80mph with lightspeed..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
that ball is moving straight..u can predict its path..speedblitz is not like that..and u can't compare 80mph with lightspeed..

If the blitz is in any kind of perceivable pattern, then it's not impossible to predict where someone will be.

I'm not Thor. His perceptions are far faster than mine.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If the blitz is in any kind of perceivable pattern, then it's not impossible to predict where someone will be.

I'm not Thor. His perceptions are far faster than mine.

i know Thor perceptions is better than human..but lightspeed..seriously..even if he can predict the movement..he's not fast enough to tag someone who can move and think at lighspeed...they would just evade his blow..cuz he's moving far slower than them..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i know Thor perceptions is better than human..but lightspeed..seriously..even if he can predict the movement..he's not fast enough to tag someone who can move and think at lighspeed...they would just evade his blow..cuz he's moving far slower than them..

Even if Thor was close to lightspeed, that would be enough. And not everyone is going to blitz him at close to lightspeed or lightspeed anyway.

Besides, how many times has someone judged where someone will be, and put their hand/weapon where the person will be? It wouldn't be the first time.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Even if Thor was close to lightspeed, that would be enough. And not everyone is going to blitz him at close to lightspeed or lightspeed anyway.

Besides, how many times has someone judged where someone will be, and put their hand/weapon where the person will be? It wouldn't be the first time.

Thor is not even close to lighspeed..he can fly fast but fighting fast..i don't think he can..

in a comic maybe..but this isn't a comic..there's no pis here..someone with flash or supes speed and perception would just evade..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Thor is not even close to lighspeed..he can fly fast but fighting fast..i don't think he can..

in a comic maybe..but this isn't a comic..there's no pis here..someone with flash or supes speed and perception would just evade..

From what I've read of Thor, his combat speed always seemed impressive to me.

Says who? They're still subject to momentum (well Superman is at least), and if Thor is able to move any way quickly, he could very easily surprise them.

Originally posted by -Pr-
From what I've read of Thor, his combat speed always seemed impressive to me.

Says who? They're still subject to momentum (well Superman is at least), and if Thor is able to move any way quickly, he could very easily surprise them.

i don't see anything impressive..he doesn't have super speed..

i don't think so..they can maneuver very easily while moving at high speed..

Originally posted by -Pr-
From what I've read of Thor, his combat speed always seemed impressive to me.

Says who? They're still subject to momentum (well Superman is at least), and if Thor is able to move any way quickly, he could very easily surprise them.

I disagree due to Thors history. If Superman fought effectively, Thor shouldn't land a hammer shot. I wouldn't put Thor combat speed over Mongul...you get the point.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i don't see anything impressive..he doesn't have super speed..

i don't think so..they can maneuver very easily while moving at high speed..

Based on what?

Yes, but they would have to maneuver out of the way of something they might not see coming until the last minute.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree due to Thors history. If Superman fought effectively, Thor shouldn't land a hammer shot. I wouldn't put Thor combat speed over Mongul...you get the point.

Like you know Thor's history. sneer

Thor has faster reflexes than Mongul anyway.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Based on what?

Yes, but they would have to maneuver out of the way of something they might not see coming until the last minute.



Like you know Thor's history. sneer

Thor has faster reflexes than Mongul anyway.

On your first comment. How would a speedster not see an attack coming if they are far faster than the person that is delivering the blow?

On your second comment...WOW.

Originally posted by carver9
On your first comment. How would a speedster not see an attack coming if they are far faster than the person that is delivering the blow?

On your second comment...WOW.

"Far faster" is debatable, which is the point.

What?

Originally posted by -Pr-
"Far faster" is debatable, which is the point.

What?

Thor doesnt have the fts to suggest he is capable of handling blitzes from people like Supes, Flash, Gladiator, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, with a hammer shot. His versatility would have to come into play once he gains the momentum to counter this attack.

Thor is fast but he's not as fast as the characters mentioned above. That's why CIS is a beautiful rule on KMC.

I said "wow" because you said I don't know Thor.

Originally posted by -Pr-
People can react to things far faster than they can move their bodies. I can hit a ball travelling at 80mph, but I can't run that fast. But a person runs say in the 10 - 25mph range. The ball is only a few times faster so of course you can still hit it. If the ball is a bullet, you can't - the speed difference is simply too much.

The human & ball situation is roughly like Thor & classic Quicksilver. Yes, he can respond to that level of blitz quite well.

But Thor against a high-end Supes, Flash etc. is more like a human against a bullet at millions of times normal bullet speed. There is no chance. His neurons wouldn't even register what was happening. There is nothing that indicates he could respond. That's just Marvel - their characters don't operate at that level (and plot-wise that's a good thing).

Originally posted by -Pr-
If the blitz is in any kind of perceivable pattern, then it's not impossible to predict where someone will be.

I'm not Thor. His perceptions are far faster than mine. Same with this. Against QS, I agree. Against uber Flash/Supes, no. No way to predict anything when your retina hasn't even registered an image, your neurons don't even have time to fire across the synapses. And no way to react to a prediction anyway. Thor would be a statue to those types of guys, as silly as that is.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree due to Thors history. If Superman fought effectively, Thor shouldn't land a hammer shot. I wouldn't put Thor combat speed over Mongul...you get the point.


which showings in thors history would make u believe he would get owned by a speedblitz. If he can respond to flying thru meteor showers at the speed of light, blocking bullets, lasers, blocking nefarias HV, Kallarks attempt at a speedblitz (which according to u Carver is "100 times the speed of light"...mjolnir does not help him predict anything, it doesnt guide him...so his perception and reaction times must be close to the level

Originally posted by Slaanesh
u can't react to light speed attack if u don't have speed close or equal to lighspeed..and Thor doesn't have that kinda speed..not even close..it's ridiculous to think he can react to it..maybe he can in a comic..but this is a forum..

He has on panel feats wherein Thor was able to react and counter such speeds.

and the last part, dear lord... yes, this is a forum, and we base a character's abilities base on their on panel feats in "comics". So yeah, if Thor can do those shit in a comic, he sure as hell is capable of doing it in a forum fight.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
he had a hard time against Wolverine and says Wolverine is fast..Thor doesn't have super speed..it's not in his powerset..but he can fly very fast with Mjonlir..

We've seen him digging a trench at super speed, seeming to appear everywhere in combat e.t.c e.t.c.

So he ceretainly does have super speed. The question is if its speed on Spiderman's level, or speed on classic quicksilver's level. I admit theres little evidence to support the latter (without the aid of Mjolnir that is).

Unless Thor is really focus on whoever he is up against. I know Thor has been hit against foes his equal or less.

Yes, to an extent. Just because Superman decides to suddenly use his speed effectively wouldn't mean it's an auto win but Thor can't counter in a regular manner. If Superman has already gotten in close enough to unleash an Imperiex Probe type blitz, Thor would need to use his more versatile nature. I don't think he should be able to land a normal punch.

His not a speedster though, never has been, not in the classic sense. He definitely has the ability to perceive objects moving at incredibly velocity, for example, I think he'd be able to track even the Silver Surfer if he was flying at trans light speeds, which coupled with his instincts/reflexes allows him to mount a very good initial defense. Thor's speed also depends on the situation/opponent more so than his other physical traits because it's so ill-defined.

One thing that seems to happen in comics often that's usually overlooked is the trade off of power for speed. A dozen super blurry blows aren't any more effective than one regular swing most of the time. Weird.

Originally posted by carver9
I said "wow" because you said I don't know Thor.

You don't. ermm

Short answer? No.

Somebody supersonic in battle speed with sufficient strength should pulverize him in hand to hand, as long as he covers the distance from him to Thor before the latter is able to mount a defensive.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
which showings in thors history would make u believe he would get owned by a speedblitz. If he can respond to flying thru meteor showers at the speed of light, blocking bullets, lasers, blocking nefarias HV, Kallarks attempt at a speedblitz (which according to u Carver is "100 times the speed of light"...mjolnir does not help him predict anything, it doesnt guide him...so his perception and reaction times must be close to the level

Hitting a 90mph baseball from 60ft is not the same as hitting one from 5ft away.

Flies move less than 5 mph yet it is more difficult to hit them than a 90mph baseball from 60ft (Thor's feats against bullets and lasers from a distance).

Thor can hit a fast straight attack coming from a distance but there is no proof that he can hit a similar one from up close or a slower one (yet still fast) bouncing around him.

People act like Thor can not deal with speed at all.

Even recently Thor finished off Quicksilver with ease, the same guy who was bragging about dodging lightning like it was nothing. Thor handled him and his speed very well. Yeah I know it wasn't in the context of QS speedblitzing him, but Thor was able to get QS on his back and pinned down and did it with what appeared to be little trouble.

Now do I think Thor would be able to out punch a Superman no but at the same point Thor isn't limited to just using his fists to counter a speedblitz and I think his reactions and perceptions are more than up to the challenge.

Originally posted by Newjak
People act like Thor can not deal with speed at all.

Even recently Thor finished off Quicksilver with ease, the same guy who was bragging about dodging lightning like it was nothing. Thor handled him and his speed very well. Yeah I know it wasn't in the context of QS speedblitzing him, but Thor was able to get QS on his back and pinned down and did it with what appeared to be little trouble.

Now do I think Thor would be able to out punch a Superman no but at the same point Thor isn't limited to just using his fists to counter a speedblitz and I think his reactions and perceptions are more than up to the challenge.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree due to Thors history. If Superman fought effectively, Thor shouldn't land a hammer shot. I wouldn't put Thor combat speed over Mongul...you get the point.

So do you also agree that if Superman fought effectively then Hulk wouldn't be able to land a punch on him??

EDIT

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
And yet Thor also has plenty of showings depicting him as being able to move and react at super speeds. So does virtually EVER street level hero in comics. Thor isn't faster just because he's Thor.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
He has been mentioned to move faster than the eye can see, move as fast as the lightning he commands, dig trenches at speeds that he is a blur, react to instantaneous mental attacks attacks, react to lasers and energy beams, mentioned to move so fast that he seems to be everywhere, move at dazzling speeds (what ever the shit that means) and so on and so forth. Hell, he was even able to dodge his own hammer.

Mentioning a bunch of low end feats does not cancel out his higher end speed feats nor does me, mentioning a bunch of his higher end feats cancel out his low end feats.

On average, he is fast enough to react to super speed attacks and bull rushes. If he doesn't block or dodge that initial super speed assault, he is durable enough to tack some hits and react and counter accordingly.

And yes, I agree, Thor to my knowledge, has never been shown to be a speedster in combat. IMO, he can react to light speed attacks and speed blitz, but move at those speeds? Nah.
No one's trying to "cancel" out his feats... But that list you just mentioned is again applicable to nearly EVERY street level comic hero worth his salt. Batman's dodged heat vision, Wolverine's batted away multiple optic blasts... the only thing those types of feats do is pad out pissing contests between fanboys about which characters are faster but they're still pretty common and generic feats. Thor's speed isn't something that's part of his basic plotlines. It isn't something routinely referenced or displayed like Spiderman for instance. It isn't something that's obviously part of his powerset like Quicksilver or Flash. It's something that impresses to the degree of every decent hero in comics. Alternatively the speed of Thor's opponents is brought up in a number of examples where he's left bewildered or at the very least put at strain to deal with it. Thor doesn't have the speed feats Superman does when it comes to blitzing, Superman doesn't have the limitations Thor does when it comes to fighting and until Thor becomes a character who gets depicted as blitzing his opponents or challenging speedsters in fist fights then he isn't one who's going to be able to deal with an attack as was posted on the first page... and yes... I agree with your last 2 parts there.

Originally posted by jinzin
Batman's dodged heat vision, Wolverine's batted away multiple optic blasts... the only thing those types of feats do is pad out pissing contests between fanboys about which characters are faster but they're still pretty common and generic feats. Thor's speed isn't something that's part of his basic plotlines. It isn't something routinely referenced or displayed like Spiderman for instance. It isn't something that's obviously part of his powerset like Quicksilver or Flash. It's something that impresses to the degree of every decent hero in comics. Nice.

Originally posted by jinzin
So does virtually EVER street level hero in comics. Thor isn't faster just because he's Thor.


No one's trying to "cancel" out his feats... But that list you just mentioned is again applicable to nearly EVERY street level comic hero worth his salt. Batman's dodged heat vision, Wolverine's batted away multiple optic blasts... the only thing those types of feats do is pad out pissing contests between fanboys about which characters are faster but they're still pretty common and generic feats. Thor's speed isn't something that's part of his basic plotlines. It isn't something routinely referenced or displayed like Spiderman for instance. It isn't something that's obviously part of his powerset like Quicksilver or Flash. It's something that impresses to the degree of every decent hero in comics. Alternatively the speed of Thor's opponents is brought up in a number of examples where he's left bewildered or at the very least put at strain to deal with it. Thor doesn't have the speed feats Superman does when it comes to blitzing, Superman doesn't have the limitations Thor does when it comes to fighting and until Thor becomes a character who gets depicted as blitzing his opponents or challenging speedsters in fist fights then he isn't one who's going to be able to deal with an attack as was posted on the first page... and yes... I agree with your last 2 parts there.

Hmm. I'll have to give this some serious consideration.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hitting a 90mph baseball from 60ft is not the same as hitting one from 5ft away.

Flies move less than 5 mph yet it is more difficult to hit them than a 90mph baseball from 60ft (Thor's feats against bullets and lasers from a distance).

Thor can hit a fast straight attack coming from a distance but there is no proof that he can hit a similar one from up close or a slower one (yet still fast) bouncing around him.


ok...im in a debating mood so i will play. I understand the baseball analogy but it does not fit in this scenario, because it takes less action and timing to scounter something that close when u have comparable speed.

Now. Thor has never had an issue dealing with DC level speedsters and on average does better than they would against him (Gladiator, Hyperion, Nefaria, Norrin, Sentry) , all the aforementioned have demonstrated the ability to speedblitz in DC fashion yet all have failed in there numerous fight against Thor to use it, with the exception of Kallark who loss tould be argued as PIS. That being said it is completely feasible that he would be able to deal with a blitz from Clark, Diana, or Barry.

I mean in a traditional sense no he isn't a "normal blitzer" simply because thats not his style and despite this he has been shown to catch/match speed gods (Hermes, Cabal, Zefar) as well as run-of-the-mill speedsters like Quicksilver.

Also many a naysayer will use the argument that it is not Odinson who accomplishes the feats, ie FTL space travel while dodging asteroids, the lava trench feat, parrying bullets/laser, blocking Phoenix psi-blast, Nefarias HV, etc..the will say it is all Mjolnir. Well le me go ahead and nip that argument in the bud.

It has been firmly established as canon that Mjolnir is just a representation of Thors' power. That "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor", NOT the other way around. Mjolnir is just a conduit for his abilities. Take the Celestial incident when Exitars dome was shattered (and mjolnir destroyed) as a result of the Godly energies poured from Thors being. That proves that his abilities are inherent, i mean the inscription on the side speaks for itself. Thor controls the hammer it is an extension of his innate abilities..say for example a rock (or multiple rocks) is thrown at ftl speed..it is his perception, his reflexes that fend off the attack. Mjolnir is not sentient, it is not a lantern ring, super computer, or a navigation system and there is nothing to suggest that. It is no different that WW lasso yet no one debates her ability.

At the end of the day he has fought and won the majority/looked superior in every battle with every superman clone marvel has to offer and superspeed never caused an issue

Originally posted by Newjak
People act like Thor can not deal with speed at all.

Even recently Thor finished off Quicksilver with ease, the same guy who was bragging about dodging lightning like it was nothing. Thor handled him and his speed very well. Yeah I know it wasn't in the context of QS speedblitzing him, but Thor was able to get QS on his back and pinned down and did it with what appeared to be little trouble.

Now do I think Thor would be able to out punch a Superman no but at the same point Thor isn't limited to just using his fists to counter a speedblitz and I think his reactions and perceptions are more than up to the challenge.

This.

People think that Thor simply has to respond with a well timed punch or hammer swing while ignoring that he really doesn't have to do that to hit someone faster than him. I think people feel that Thor needs to become an after image or blur more often in comics in order to deal with fast opponents, but he really doesn't have to. And clinging to Wolverine/Mongoose/Spider-Man in an attempt to claim that he's sorely outmatched while ignoring his fights against fast heralds and his instances of dealing with superspeed is pretty sad/hilarious.

Originally posted by Newjak
People act like Thor can not deal with speed at all.

Even recently Thor finished off Quicksilver with ease, the same guy who was bragging about dodging lightning like it was nothing. Thor handled him and his speed very well. Yeah I know it wasn't in the context of QS speedblitzing him, but Thor was able to get QS on his back and pinned down and did it with what appeared to be little trouble.

Now do I think Thor would be able to out punch a Superman no but at the same point Thor isn't limited to just using his fists to counter a speedblitz and I think his reactions and perceptions are more than up to the challenge.

Best post by far.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
We've seen him digging a trench at super speed, seeming to appear everywhere in combat e.t.c e.t.c.

So he ceretainly does have super speed. The question is if its speed on Spiderman's level, or speed on classic quicksilver's level. I admit theres little evidence to support the latter (without the aid of Mjolnir that is).

there is more instance of him not having superspeed..everyone know Thor doesn't have superspeed..he's faster than a human that's for sure..but if he's not at least quicksilver's level..i don't call that superspeed..

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
He has on panel feats wherein Thor was able to react and counter such speeds.

and the last part, dear lord... yes, this is a forum, and we base a character's abilities base on their on panel feats in "comics". So yeah, if Thor can do those shit in a comic, he sure as hell is capable of doing it in a forum fight.

nope..in comic sure..there's pis..here on KMC..he won't even tag Supes or Flash..they are way too fast for him..flash and supes was talking in a diner while everyone is standing still..u know how fast that is..Thor can't hit that level of speed..he doesn't have that kinda speed..

If someone post a ft of Thor fighting someone who is blitzing him and Thor is actually keeping up with this person, I think it would end this debate. I honestly don't think comic characters, minus Flash, Zoom, etc, fight at super speed when its two people that is pitted against each other. Example, if Gladiator and Supes fought, I can't see this fight happening at super speed at all because the characters are use to fighting in the same fashion so much, consistently that its just not within their ability ...imo...to perform such a task...seems like it is always performed against beings that are much slower than them. Moral, this thread is pointless until someone show the characters in question that is brought up in this thread against Thor fighting at continuous super speed (minus the flash).

Originally posted by Sin I AM
ok...im in a debating mood so i will play. I understand the baseball analogy but it does not fit in this scenario, because it takes less action and timing to scounter something that close when u have comparable speed.

Now. Thor has never had an issue dealing with DC level speedsters and on average does better than they would against him (Gladiator, Hyperion, Nefaria, Norrin, Sentry) , all the aforementioned have demonstrated the ability to speedblitz in DC fashion yet all have failed in there numerous fight against Thor to use it, with the exception of Kallark who loss tould be argued as PIS. That being said it is completely feasible that he would be able to deal with a blitz from Clark, Diana, or Barry.

I mean in a traditional sense no he isn't a "normal blitzer" simply because thats not his style and despite this he has been shown to catch/match speed gods (Hermes, Cabal, Zefar) as well as run-of-the-mill speedsters like Quicksilver.

Also many a naysayer will use the argument that it is not Odinson who accomplishes the feats, ie FTL space travel while dodging asteroids, the lava trench feat, parrying bullets/laser, blocking Phoenix psi-blast, Nefarias HV, etc..the will say it is all Mjolnir. Well le me go ahead and nip that argument in the bud.

It has been firmly established as canon that Mjolnir is just a representation of Thors' power. That "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor", NOT the other way around. Mjolnir is just a conduit for his abilities. Take the Celestial incident when Exitars dome was shattered (and mjolnir destroyed) as a result of the Godly energies poured from Thors being. That proves that his abilities are inherent, i mean the inscription on the side speaks for itself. Thor controls the hammer it is an extension of his innate abilities..say for example a rock (or multiple rocks) is thrown at ftl speed..it is his perception, his reflexes that fend off the attack. Mjolnir is not sentient, it is not a lantern ring, super computer, or a navigation system and there is nothing to suggest that. It is no different that WW lasso yet no one debates her ability.

At the end of the day he has fought and won the majority/looked superior in every battle with every superman clone marvel has to offer and superspeed never caused an issue

First, I never referred to Mjolnir doing the responding and not Thor. So you wasted precious time even writing about that.

Second, my baseball analogy works perfectly. When something is close then you have less time to respond. When something is moving in a predictable pattern (like a straight line) then you can be more accurate.

Third, there's the case of street levelers in comics consistently blocking or batting away lasers and energy beams. Now I'm not a proponent of this argument as I accept that Thor can block straight light speed attacks from 30 or so feet away.

Fourth, speed in itself is meaningless. The key ingredients are speed, distance, and path. You can give all the analogies of dodging meteors in space when distances are already vast. For example, I, a mere human, can dodge the Sun if I traveled at light speed towards it. It would take me 8 minutes to invoke a change in direction.

Finally, doing well in comics against beings who are very fast doesn't automatically grant you superspeed. This is because the fast character wasn't using superspeed when you got the better of them. Or you were never shown to defend against a top level blitz against them. Otherwise, Hulk, Juggs, Grundy, etc. would all have grade A superspeed now wouldn't they?

P.S. IMO I'm glad Thor doesn't have grade A superspeed as that would make him too powerful. He would definitely be trans level minimum.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
by that description a lantern ring is quasi-sentient...which it is not but, it is...

Originally posted by Newjak
People act like Thor can not deal with speed at all.

Even recently Thor finished off Quicksilver with ease, the same guy who was bragging about dodging lightning like it was nothing. Thor handled him and his speed very well. Yeah I know it wasn't in the context of QS speedblitzing him, but Thor was able to get QS on his back and pinned down and did it with what appeared to be little trouble.

Now do I think Thor would be able to out punch a Superman no but at the same point Thor isn't limited to just using his fists to counter a speedblitz and I think his reactions and perceptions are more than up to the challenge.

The way he defeated Quicksilver was odd.

He had to ground pound to make him trip. But the thing is, even if its an AOE attack, sort of, the shockwaves would still not move anywhere near as fast as lightning is supposed to.

It was basically just stupidity on QS' part.

Still, Thor has good reactions. He is still clearly at least super to low-end hypersonic. He can block bullets and even catch tank shells, both of which require at least supersonic reflexes from the distance that he did it.

But he's not reacting to a high end blitz.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
there is more instance of him not having superspeed..everyone know Thor doesn't have superspeed..he's faster than a human that's for sure..but if he's not at least quicksilver's level..i don't call that superspeed..




Mute point about how often he's displayed it. If he's shown superhuman speed more than once then he has it. Superhuman speed is speed faster than a human is capable of as far as I have have always understood the term, which Thor has displayed on several occasions.

However being an actual speedster is something different. I dnt think anyone is disagreeing that Thor is not close to quicksilver's level of speed. Quicksilver obviously is a speedster.

But on the topic of can Thor react to a speedblitz, Id say yes, (but he may take a bit of a beating first depending on just how fast the speedster is).

He's shown the reflexes/reactions and perceptions of a speedster (though not the movement), and has lightspeed energy based attacks to hit back with.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The way he defeated Quicksilver was odd.

He had to ground pound to make him trip. But the thing is, even if its an AOE attack, sort of, the shockwaves would still not move anywhere near as fast as lightning is supposed to.



But the IIRC it was a single Lightning strike, whilst the shockwave was closer to being multidirectional.

If that didnt work an omni-blast would certainly do the trick.

Thor clearly showed there he can hit a speedster. He's shown he can react to them, and then use an array of different powers to hit them.

I agree with the whole "if he doesn't show a power all the time then he doesn't have it" idiocy. How many powers do guys like Thor and Silver Surfer have, anyway? A ****ton, do you really expect writers to have them use every single one of their powers every time they fight?

Responding to a speedblitz, the only way he knows how:



http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/bbsimg/whiz.jpg

^ Yeah the spinning Mjolnir real fast thing which pro-speedster guys usually dismiss as anything useful against a speedster.

Looking at the pic I think its obvious if Thor was doing that it wouldn't be the easiest thing to blitz him.

What should stop someone like Flash to run behind him and kick his balls?

^ Ok Flash is the fastest of the fastest. But if we are talking speedsters in general, it at the least would make their movements a lot more predictable.

And we already know Thor can block/deflect Light speed attacks coming in a predictable line.

Or he could just have lightning blasts or a tornado covering his back. But yeah in the end it all comes down to his versatility.

By the way there is an issue of Avengers where Thor was able to see Hermes but other characters like Cap and Black Knight couldn't. It's been awhile so I could be wrong, but that would be concrete evidence that Thor is above street level.

dur

This is as close to a blitz that I currently have lying around on my hdd

Thor was able to react while being driven into the ground by Gladiator and what looks like Gladiator punching Thor every panel

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd89/ils411/for%20sale/th_Thor_2001_035_20.jpg

^ Jesus Christ thats not a speedblitz facepalm

Meh...its hard for me to determine as the first two panels look like hes either trying to punch him or bull rushing him...

either way Thor caught him monologing

Originally posted by Deadline
^ Jesus Christ thats not a speedblitz facepalm

regardless if Gladiator was punching Thor or not, using Thor as a ram and plowing the ground downward would mean that Thor was continuously being hit which would equate to some sort of blitz.

Problem here is you're too close minded to see it. And I'm not surprised as majority of the posters in KMC are blind closeminded fanboys.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
regardless if Gladiator was punching Thor or not, using Thor as a ram and plowing the ground downward would mean that Thor was continuously being hit which would equate to some sort of blitz.

Problem here is you're too close minded to see it. And I'm not surprised as majority of the posters in KMC are blind closeminded fanboys.

Originally posted by Deadline
^ Jesus Christ thats not a speedblitz facepalm Your bewilderment evinces a shocking disbelief at the example posted. So what exactly was the "Superman speedblitz" in your mind? Anybody have an example?

And please, do not post that speedblitz against an Imperiex Probe... because if you look at it, that Imperiex Probe basically no-sold that speedblitz and Superman had to resort to pure unfettered power to defeat it. That's probably the most embarrassing example of a speedblitz that you could cite: one that was no-sold by a phucking second or third-rate minion of a villain. Might as well cite to a feat over a Doombot.

Yeah, let's see what this Superman speedblitz is all about that makes it well beyond what Thor could possibly have encountered for all the naysayers. In other words, the shoe's on the other foot: stop begging the question and demanding the highest feats and the highest level of speed Thor could possibly counter... turn around and show us what kind of Superman assault Thor could never possibly tank/counter.

By all means, please show us. This isn't aimed at Deadline only; the rest of you, post examples. This also has nothing to do with Superman Thor-related butthurt.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your bewilderment evinces a shocking disbelief at the example posted. So what exactly was the "Superman speedblitz" in your mind? Anybody have an example?

And please, do not post that speedblitz against an Imperiex Probe... because if you look at it, that Imperiex Probe basically no-sold that speedblitz and Superman had to resort to pure unfettered power to defeat it. That's probably the most embarrassing example of a speedblitz that you could cite: one that was no-sold by a phucking second or third-rate minion of a villain. Might as well cite to a feat over a Doombot.

Yeah, let's see what this Superman speedblitz is all about that makes it well beyond what Thor could possibly have encountered for all the naysayers. In other words, the shoe's on the other foot: stop begging the question and demanding the highest feats and the highest level of speed Thor could possibly counter... turn around and show us what kind of Superman assault Thor could never possibly tank/counter.

By all means, please show us. This isn't aimed at Deadline only; the rest of you, post examples. This also has nothing to do with Superman Thor-related butthurt.

Trust me...no one will post a ft. H1 might come in here and calculate something without showing a scan but besides that...nothing will be displayed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your bewilderment evinces a shocking disbelief at the example posted. So what exactly was the "Superman speedblitz" in your mind? Anybody have an example?

And please, do not post that speedblitz against an Imperiex Probe... because if you look at it, that Imperiex Probe basically no-sold that speedblitz and Superman had to resort to pure unfettered power to defeat it. That's probably the most embarrassing example of a speedblitz that you could cite: one that was no-sold by a phucking second or third-rate minion of a villain. Might as well cite to a feat over a Doombot.

Yeah, let's see what this Superman speedblitz is all about that makes it well beyond what Thor could possibly have encountered for all the naysayers. In other words, the shoe's on the other foot: stop begging the question and demanding the highest feats and the highest level of speed Thor could possibly counter... turn around and show us what kind of Superman assault Thor could never possibly tank/counter.

By all means, please show us. This isn't aimed at Deadline only; the rest of you, post examples. This also has nothing to do with Superman Thor-related butthurt.

Well I don't have to but what the hell
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_ccf0716201100002.jpghttp://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_ccf0716201100003.jpg

Originally posted by Deadline
^ Jesus Christ thats not a speedblitz facepalm

Yeah Im sure Gladiator was punching Thor as Slow as he possibly could. That makes perfect sense given the story (FYI Glads was going all out to kill Thor as he saw him as a huge threat to the future. Even surprised attacked him as Jake Olsen. And he was clearly shown to use his speed in that fight).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your bewilderment evinces a shocking disbelief at the example posted. So what exactly was the "Superman speedblitz" in your mind? Anybody have an example?

And please, do not post that speedblitz against an Imperiex Probe... because if you look at it, that Imperiex Probe basically no-sold that speedblitz and Superman had to resort to pure unfettered power to defeat it. That's probably the most embarrassing example of a speedblitz that you could cite: one that was no-sold by a phucking second or third-rate minion of a villain. Might as well cite to a feat over a Doombot.

Yeah, let's see what this Superman speedblitz is all about that makes it well beyond what Thor could possibly have encountered for all the naysayers. In other words, the shoe's on the other foot: stop begging the question and demanding the highest feats and the highest level of speed Thor could possibly counter... turn around and show us what kind of Superman assault Thor could never possibly tank/counter.

By all means, please show us. This isn't aimed at Deadline only; the rest of you, post examples. This also has nothing to do with Superman Thor-related butthurt.

Jesus Fing Christ it's not a speedblitz because Gladiator is already in contact with him and is pushing him to the ground. You might as well post scans of the Incredible Hulk pushing Thor backwards and claiming its a speedblitz.

If he had reacted before Glads had reached him that would have been proof. That is all, has nothing to do with anything else. Did you not see what I posted already. I'm actrually trying to argue for Thor.

Originally posted by Deadline
By the way there is an issue of Avengers where Thor was able to see Hermes but other characters like Cap and Black Knight couldn't. It's been awhile so I could be wrong, but that would be concrete evidence that Thor is above street level.

Serioulsy how long have you been posting on this forum. So suddenly I'm a massive Superman fan and hate Thor, or are you just trying to annoy me?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah Im sure Gladiator was punching Thor as Slow as he possibly could. That makes perfect sense given the story (FYI Glads was going all out to kill Thor as he saw him as a huge threat to the future. Even surprised attacked him as Jake Olsen. And he was clearly shown to use his speed in that fight).

Glads and Superman don't always fight at insane levels of speed. Yea there are example of Thor reacting to speed that example is retarded though.

By the way heres Thor dodging his own hammer. Old scan but very impressive.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ReactsMicroSecond.jpg

Theres a less impressive one in modern times.

Originally posted by carver9
Trust me...no one will post a ft. H1 might come in here and calculate something without showing a scan but besides that...nothing will be displayed.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/joeno/708yd.png

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/joeno/424rf.jpg

A clarification: I'm not saying Superman is better than Thor or anything like that. And I realise that this is a Thor thread. I was only really replying to carver.

Originally posted by carver9
Trust me...no one will post a ft. H1 might come in here and calculate something without showing a scan but besides that...nothing will be displayed.

You want a warning? Really?

because right now you're baiting people. And flat out lying.

But please, continue.

Using his speed to dodge attacks, set up openings for hay-makers by maneuvering around Thor are what I think would be real difference makers. What I picture when I think of this is the opening scene in their JLA/Avengers battle or something tactical like his fight with Doomsday.

Based on what I've seen (At least the majority of the time), all of those super fast blurry attacks are like jabs in comparison to regular shit. Those Mongul or Imperiex type combos just seems like his setting himself for an energy blast to the face ala Surfer imho.

If all else fails, I'd say Superman shot resort to bullrushing Thor and then start swinging like Ali. The Odinson has incredibly stamina/damage soak, but Superman is arguably stronger, and if he has momentum on his side, it could be all he needs. Course, he better not sleep on Thor or the tide will change.

I just don't think any fancy blurry after images are winning the battle for him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A clarification: I'm not saying Superman is better than Thor or anything like that. And I realise that this is a Thor thread. I was only really replying to carver.

Yeah we know. There's No need to downplay Supes speed.

Speed Blitz for the win,

Like it or not