Spiderman vs wolverine debunked

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MARCMANtheDUDE
Here is what I do not get with the debate:

If spiderman has web and can lift 20 tons and so on, then is there i reason he would not simply web the sh!t out of wolverine then saunter over and rip off his head then dump it to the bottom of the ocean (theoretically)

JakeTheBank
Good question. Spider-Man wins.

Sr J-Bieb
Wolverine's one weakness is having his head put in the bottom of the ocean. It's an established comic fact spanning decades.

cdtm
Can Wolverine heal from drowning?

Sr J-Bieb
Not if he's at the bottom of the ocean

SquallX
I did read an origin takes on Wolverine's regen. Surposely he dies, and he meets an Angel, he battles the Angel, and f he wins he comes back, but the last time he died, the Angel tricked him, and now as possession of his body.

Been a while since i read that comic, was that retcon or an alternate timeline.

SamZED
Originally posted by MARCMANtheDUDE
Here is what I do not get with the debate:

If spiderman has web and can lift 20 tons and so on, then is there i reason he would not simply web the sh!t out of wolverine then saunter over and rip off his head then dump it to the bottom of the ocean (theoretically) There were made several attempts to rip Logan apart and to cut his head off. Even by people stronger than Spidey. The adamantium skeleton makes it impossible. Dont know how that works exactly, there was no official statement to my knowledge. But comics support it. At the same time Logan on 2 different occasions admitted that his neck can be broken. no expression But feats > statement.

As for webs, Logan can cut though it. TTT, Spider-man never tried to web him up with more than few threads. A whole cartridge should be enough to immobilize Logan at least for some time but in that case getting to his head would be impossible.

Hope that helped.

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by SamZED
As for webs, Logan can cut though it. TTT, Spider-man never tried to web him up with more than few threads. A whole cartridge should be enough to immobilize Logan at least for some time but in that case getting to his head would be impossible.
He has webbed up Wolverine without problems.

carver9
That fight wasn't a good showing for Spiderman "at all" involving an encounter between him and Wolvy.

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by carver9
That fight wasn't a good showing for Spiderman "at all" involving an encounter between him and Wolvy.
Wolverine attacked him and Spider-Man webbed him up.

Pretty simple.

carver9
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Wolverine attacked him and Spider-Man webbed him up.

Pretty simple.

Spiderman was scared sh**less of Wolvy in that comic and Wolverine attention wasn't even on Spiderman, he was trying to kill the kid, the Omega Mutant that kept blasting him. Spiderman feared Wolverine berserker rage and actually had his hand over his head at one point when Wolverine was attacking.

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman was scared sh**less of Wolvy in that comic and Wolverine attention wasn't even on Spiderman, he was trying to kill the kid, the Omega Mutant that kept blasting him. Spiderman feared Wolverine berserker rage and actually had his hand over his head at one point when Wolverine was attacking.
confused confused confused

That was... amusing.

carver9
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
confused confused confused

That was... amusing.

I'm being serious here. Read the comic. Samz, can you please post this fight for him if you have it?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Wolverine attacked him and Spider-Man webbed him up.

Pretty simple.

Yeaaaaaaaaah no. Wolverine was standing there talking to Spider-man, when Spider-man webbed him up.

That said, Spider-man beats Wolverine via webbing incapacitation for the vast majority.

Sin I AM
spiderman wins...I liked the simulationtake on logan being killed when Magneto pulled out his adamantium and Namor pulled off his head.

I also always wondered y someone would just didnt k.o logan and dump him in a vat of acid

carver9
Acid doesnt work.

srankmissingnin
Because: He is nearly impossible to ko? If they did manage to ko him, someone would need to carry him to a vat of acid... and pray to god he didn't regain consciousness while that happened? Even if they managed to incapacitate him and get him to said vat of acid without incident, he has survived being dropped into a vat of molten metal?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
Acid doesnt work. Deathlok begs to differ haw-som

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/wolverine-vs-captain-america-vs-spider-man-triple-threat-11647.jpg

carver9
PIS

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
PIS The Deathlok incident or the scan I just posted?

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
The Deathlok incident or the scan I just posted?

All of it.

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Deathlok begs to differ haw-som

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/wolverine-vs-captain-america-vs-spider-man-triple-threat-11647.jpg
Spider-Man looked sooo scared... laughing

srankmissingnin
The Deathlok incident is a non-canon divergent time line. Are we pretending those are valid now? Old Man Logan counts I guess!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxsw8apXlu1qb0iau.gif

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman was scared sh**less of Wolvy in that comic and Wolverine attention wasn't even on Spiderman, he was trying to kill the kid, the Omega Mutant that kept blasting him. Spiderman feared Wolverine berserker rage and actually had his hand over his head at one point when Wolverine was attacking.

Have to admit, that was pretty funny.

carver9
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Spider-Man looked sooo scared... laughing

Ask him to post the entire fight. Spiderman didn't help that kid once while Wolverine was attacking.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
All of it. First you wanted Sam to post that scan now it's PIS because of course you were talking shit again that Spider-man was so scared.

And for Srank that timeline was canon it just never happened because they changed the future in the past it was 616 Logan, Old Man Logan is a completely different universe big ****ing differnce, I can agree that that was PIS and shitty written yet it's canon, simple.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
Ask him to post the entire fight. Spiderman didn't help that kid once while Wolverine was attacking. I don't have the rest google was my friend here. And even if I would post the stuff before that doesn't change what happened, get used to it.

carver9
I was just playing about the PIS, don't believe in the word.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Parmaniac
And for Srank that timeline was canon it just never happened because they changed the future in the past it was 616 Logan, Old Man Logan is a completely different universe big ****ing differnce, I can agree that that was PIS and shitty written yet it's canon, simple.

No, that's not how divergent time lines work in Marvel. 616 doesn't change, it's a constant. HoM isn't 616, AoA isn't 616, any time a timeline splinters the new universe is given a new number designation. Deathlok didn't come back from the future of 616, he came back from an alternate universe with an unspecified number designation that was parallel to 616 up to a point... but not the 616. That's how time travel and alt u's work. Old Man Logan is the same thing, the continuity is the same as 616 up until a point and then it veers off on it's own path, the only difference we aren't privy to the impetus that caused the change.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because: He is nearly impossible to ko? If they did manage to ko him, someone would need to carry him to a vat of acid... and pray to god he didn't regain consciousness while that happened? Even if they managed to incapacitate him and get him to said vat of acid without incident, he has survived being dropped into a vat of molten metal?


he has been koed by getting hit in the head with a sword hilt...its not impossible, and y wouldnt acid work when water would? he's still being drowned

SamZED
Originally posted by carver9
I'm being serious here. Read the comic. Samz, can you please post this fight for him if you have it?
Sorry, dont really have it on me right now. But Spider-man wasn't scared. He was trying to save the kid and running away was the only safe bet because at one point Logan went berserk.

Nietzschean
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Spider-Man looked sooo scared... laughing actually the follow up scans iirc Spiderman does state in narration about having to get as far away from Wolverine as possible and admitting or implying his fear of Logan.

Spiderman has stated on panel various times that he is afraid of Wolverine when push comes to shove.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Sin I AM
he has been koed by getting hit in the head with a sword hilt...

And Silver Surfer got knocked unconscious by a Mexican peasant with a hammer... your example is only slightly less irrelevant.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
and y wouldnt acid work when water would? he's still being drowned

Because water wouldn't work either? Wolverine can't be drowned, his healing factor will keep him alive indefinitely underwater and a painful state of perpetual suffocation..

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by Nietzschean
actually the follow up scans iirc Spiderman does state in narration about having to get as far away from Wolverine as possible and admitting or implying his fear of Logan.

Spiderman has stated on panel various times that he is afraid of Wolverine when push comes to shove.
Not really.

He was worried that Wolverine would hurt the kid, that's all.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, that's not how divergent time lines work in Marvel. 616 doesn't change, it's a constant. HoM isn't 616, AoA isn't 616, any time a timeline splinters the new universe is given a new number designation. Deathlok didn't come back from the future of 616, he came back from an alternate universe with an unspecified number designation that was parallel to 616 up to a point... but not the 616. That's how time travel and alt u's work. Old Man Logan is the same thing, the continuity is the same as 616 up until a point and then it veers off on it's own path, the only difference we aren't privy to the impetus that caused the change. Just to make this simple, what you're saying is that if let's say Spider-man turns villain at a certain point let's say when he married MJ everything before that was 616 contunity?

carver9
So Spiderman having his hands over his head at least 3 times while Wolverine is attacking isnt a sign of fear? Come on.

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by carver9
So Spiderman having his hands over his head at least 3 times while Wolverine is attacking isnt a sign of fear? Come on.
I have no idea what you're talking about.

abhilegend
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And Silver Surfer got knocked unconscious by a Mexican peasant with a hammer... your example is only slightly less irrelevant.



Because water wouldn't work either? Wolverine can't be drowned, his healing factor will keep him alive indefinitely underwater and a painful state of perpetual suffocation..
Classic rogue almost killed logan in one punch in one of the brood storyline around uncanny x-men 170 IIRC. Err, that's a bit reaching, don't you think?

SamZED
Peter was affraid of Wolverine when they fought.. Which also makes as much sense as Surfer being knocked out by a hammer tbh. CIS at its worst. He wasn't scared of Logan when they first met and he wasnt affraid of him when they met later. Not to mention he's fought villains who are literally scarrier and it never distracted him from the fight before.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Just to make this simple, what you're saying is that if let's say Spider-man turns villain at a certain point let's say when he married MJ everything before that was 616 contunity?

It could be a parallel universe that just by sheer happenstance is the same as 616 until the event that causes Spider-man to become a villain, or it could be the 616 universe until the event which cause the timeline to splinter and creates a new universe.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Classic rogue almost killed logan in one punch in one of the brood storyline around uncanny x-men 170 IIRC. Err, that's a bit reaching, don't you think?

Yeaaaaaaaaaaah that never happened. The issue I assume you are attempting to reference is Uncanny X-Men 234 (Rogue wasn't a member of the X-Men when they initially faced the Brood in Uncanny 161-167) where Rogue hit Wolverine with "the force of a meteorite smashing into the earth" while his healing factor was taxed fighting off the Brood infection... and he still wasn't koed.

abhilegend
^Maybe, its a long time since I've read it. I've to re-read it someday. I seriously doubt logan surviving drowning by HF, he still needs to breath, right?

Nietzschean
Originally posted by abhilegend
^Maybe, its a long time since I've read it. I've to re-read it someday. I seriously doubt logan surviving drowning by HF, he still needs to breath, right? Tiger Shark tried to drown Wolverine by pinning him to the bottom of a reef..

Wolverine didnt die he went into a perpetual state of drowning, his healing factor kept him alive and put him in a state of pain as well as slightly berserk.

he swam to the surface after escaping and swam back to shore foaming at the mouth and Tiger Shark was scared sh**less

SamZED
I always assumed Logan would "die" if he's undertawer for too long. Maybe start rotting even. Same with Deadpool. But they will get reanimated once their bodies are pulled out of water.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Nietzschean
Tiger Shark tried to drown Wolverine by pinning him to the bottom of a reef..

Wolverine didnt die he went into a perpetual state of drowning, his healing factor kept him alive and put him in a state of pain as well as slightly berserk.

he swam to the surface after escaping and swam back to shore foaming at the mouth and Tiger Shark was scared sh**less
Ok, in which issue? Not doubting, just checking it out.

Nietzschean
here:

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/a/a0/Wolverine_Vol_2_19.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/5/57/Wolverine_Vol_2_20.jpg

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, in which issue? Not doubting, just checking it out.

Wolverine 19 or 20. He also had his throat ripped out by Sabretooth and was tossed into a river, he stayed under water for over an hour.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by abhilegend
^Maybe, its a long time since I've read it. I've to re-read it someday. I seriously doubt logan surviving drowning by HF, he still needs to breath, right? I doubt that this would kill him, considering that he survived having his lungs completely destroyed many times and just came back, sometimes he was still concious without them, I would agree with Sam that after a certain (very long) peroid of time he goes in some kind of "death stasis" 'till his ass is removed from the water again.

Nietzschean
Originally posted by Parmaniac
after a certain (very long) period of time he goes in some kind of "death stasis" 'till his ass is removed from the water again. I also believe this. but, after how long b4 his body goes into a death state?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by SamZED
I always assumed Logan would "die" if he's undertawer for too long. Maybe start rotting even. Same with Deadpool. But they will get reanimated once their bodies are pulled out of water.

Wolverine's healing factor seems to works independently of any other bodily functions. When he was killed by Shogun shoving a grenade down his throat and losing the fallow up match with Lazaer, his healing factor still repaired all the damage even though he was dead.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Nietzschean
I also believe this. but, after how long b4 his body goes into a death state? IDK recently Hulk was hanging under a ship travelling through the sea, he wasn't catching a breath for 4 or 5 days I give him that feat due to his HF and Hulk was totally fine not short before suffocation or something, so "transferring" this to Wolverine and having in mind that Hulk was just fine for 4 or 5 days I would say something between a week and a month. But that's just me.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And Silver Surfer got knocked unconscious by a Mexican peasant with a hammer... your example is only slightly less irrelevant.



Because water wouldn't work either? Wolverine can't be drowned, his healing factor will keep him alive indefinitely underwater and a painful state of perpetual suffocation..

it holds relevance because u made it seem like its a nigh-impossible to k.o. logan when its not


based on what? since when does he no longer require oxygen?

MARCMANtheDUDE
It was said that he cannot have his head ripped off because of the adamantium.
That stuff is in his bones, not in his ligaments which is what holds his bones together. In short, he has the same ligaments we all do AFAIK.

leonidas
i recall the drowning thing, but i was like sam--just assumed he would actually die eventually. with logan it's pretty hard to tell though. what about outer space? much different than water.....

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman was scared sh**less of Wolvy in that comic and Wolverine attention wasn't even on Spiderman, he was trying to kill the kid, the Omega Mutant that kept blasting him. Spiderman feared Wolverine berserker rage and actually had his hand over his head at one point when Wolverine was attacking.

regardless of how the fight went down or who was scared of who or what have you. I have always wanted to know why people always bring up the argument that wolverine "would cut through the webbing".......but how could he if he were webbed up in that or a similar position making it impossible for his claws to make contact?

EDIT: it's pretty stupid to "not be able to rip his head off" considering hulk ripped him in half(ultimate universe). His ligaments and joints are not coated in adimantium or he couldn't move. While I hear talk about there is a much more flexible adamantium in his joints and what have you but if thats the case how did he get ripped in half?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by leonidas
i recall the drowning thing, but i was like sam--just assumed he would actually die eventually. with logan it's pretty hard to tell though. what about outer space? much different than water..... IIRC ultimate Wolverine actually survived that and could have done so indefinately, but by real life logic shouldn't the vacuum constantly boil out the water from his eyes etc?

leonidas
you'd think..... shrug

Parmaniac
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
regardless of how the fight went down or who was scared of who or what have you. I have always wanted to know why people always bring up the argument that wolverine "would cut through the webbing".......but how could he if he were webbed up in that or a similar position making it impossible for his claws to make contact? Simple, he can't.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by leonidas
i recall the drowning thing, but i was like sam--just assumed he would actually die eventually. with logan it's pretty hard to tell though. what about outer space? much different than water.....


thats what i was thinking...even if his hf functioned differently somehow, he should still die ...your body cant self resitate when the heart stops beating

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Sin I AM
thats what i was thinking...even if his hf functioned differently somehow, he should still die ...your body cant self resitate when the heart stops beating Wolverine more than once regenerated from a mere skeleton, there was no heart to beat, it doesn't make any sense but it is how his HF works.
Actually when you regrow in an empty room from a skeleton to a complete being with all organs you're actually some kind of matter manipulator too.

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Simple, he can't.

Marvel Knights 13, #13.

carver9
Originally posted by Sin I AM
thats what i was thinking...even if his hf functioned differently somehow, he should still die ...your body cant self resitate when the heart stops beating

Wolverine was burnt, exploded, hit by a nuke and it disinterested him all the way down to the bone (happened more than once)...he didn't have a heart and he still healed in a couple of panels. Wolverine body/healing factor bypass real world logic.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
Marvel Knights 13, #13. I don't even need to look that issue up because I know you're reffering to the sparring match. Spider-man only used very few web strings, if you honestly want to argue Wolverine's strength vs. Webbing "strength" you would be done in like 2 posts, the feats of Spider-mans webbing by far outmatch Wolverine's strength feats by both quantity and quality.

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
I don't even need to look that issue up because I know you're reffering to the sparring match. Spider-man only used very few web strings, if you honestly want to argue Wolverine's strength vs. Webbing "strength" you would be done in like 2 posts, the feats of Spider-mans webbing by far outmatch Wolverine's strength feats by both quantity and quality.

It wasn't just a strength ft...Wolverine was slicing through it along with dodging Spidey webbing and brought the fight "up close and personal". Wolverine have the reflexes to dodge Spidey webbing and he also have the fts.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
It wasn't just a strength ft...Wolverine was slicing through it along with dodging Spidey webbing and brought the fight "up close and personal". Wolverine have the reflexes to dodge Spidey webbing and he also have the fts. Then you should take a closer look at the post that I replied to with "Simple, he can't"

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Then you should take a closer look at the post that I replied to with "Simple, he can't"

"He can't" what?

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Simple, he can't.

Indeed.

No one bothers to give explanations they just either ignore the question or say he would "cut out of it"


also I happen to have that issue of marvel knights.......

Ive read it and brought it up in conversation between these many Spidy Vs Wolvie fights and after lengthy arguing it always comes down to an agreement on both sides that this fight IS NOT an accurate portrayal of either one of them.

Parmaniac
And just in general, we have examples for both sides on pretty much every category, Wolverine succeeding and failing to tag Spidey, Spidey webbing him up and failing, Spider-man hurting him and failing and Spider-man hurting his hand on adamantium and not hurting it.

I said that long ago in the gigantic Wolverine vs. Spider-man thread it's not a stomp on any side. I personally go with Spidey webbing him up for a clear majority or you give Spidey a Battlefield that favors him like a construction site, if the fight is in the white empty room and both go strictly physical Wolverine takes it 9/10 and only 9 because I'm a big Spider-man fan that won't give a 10/10 to Wolverine.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
"He can't" what? Originally posted by BlackZero30x
but how could he if he were webbed up in that or a similar position making it impossible for his claws to make contact? Originally posted by Parmaniac
Simple, he can't.

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac


I agree.

jinzin
Originally posted by MARCMANtheDUDE
Here is what I do not get with the debate:

If spiderman has web and can lift 20 tons and so on, then is there i reason he would not simply web the sh!t out of wolverine then saunter over and rip off his head then dump it to the bottom of the ocean (theoretically)

Maybe that's what he would like to do, but he's got a terrible record of when it comes to trying to web Wolverine up.... erm

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6610/max0006gn9.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8474/mksm1322dc1.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1142/webs2nk6.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3614/webbingfails.jpg

Even with the one good example there is of Spiderman managing to pull it off in that alley encounter, Wolverine STILL got out the moment he decided to. He said he was just waiting and hoping the webbing was going to dissolve faster, which really is PIS as if the guy who takes swan dives out of airplanes, and sits in cars strapped with C4 of his own free will is about be scared of poking himself in the head a little?

Maybe some people feel Spiderman "should" be able to easily web up Logan, but that hasn't been in the case in almost half a dozen examples including these ones.

And yeah, drowning Logan only works as long as you keep drowning him so that's not a permanent solution either. And we've seen this demonstrated with the tiger shark moment, the Sabretooth moment, and then further suggested by the Wayverine Deadpool fight.


And yeah, Spiderman's scared of Wolverine, and he should be. Wolverine is a LETHAL melee combatant. Spiderman having "tougher, bigger, badder" foes isn't really a reason to discard that fact. Most of Spiderman's foes may have more elaborate powers than Wolverine, but they're not as effective in combat. Wolverine is a broken character for most melee confrontations.
That's why Shield regarded him on a higher threat level than Spiderman.
That's why the 198 files classify him as a "severe" level threat
That's why he has a reputation spanning the universe, the multiverse, and pantheons on high.

This isn't news. Just because he's barely a 5 foot midget doesn't mean he's not dangerous, and that's what scares Spidey, he's dangerous, and wildly unpredictable at times.


Not sure what you think this thread "debunked" but if it was that simple a conclusion to come to, we wouldn't have a 1000 page thread about it, don't be so obtuse.

Mindset
I like how none of those scans logically make sense except the first.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Mindset
I like how none of those scans logically make sense except the first. Which is from a story that usually gets thrown away as bullshit by both Spider-man and Wolverine fans.

MARCMANtheDUDE
those scans to not seem to show that web is sticky. his web can also cover a large area which, even if it just slows wolvy down, would be all the time spidey would need

Sr J-Bieb
In the third scan Wolverine is already webbed up...

JakeTheBank
Good points made by some knowledgeable posters.

I feel Spider-Man wins 10/10.

Mods can close this for spite now.

SamZED
Originally posted by jinzin
Maybe that's what he would like to do, but he's got a terrible record of when it comes to trying to web Wolverine up.... erm

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6610/max0006gn9.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8474/mksm1322dc1.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1142/webs2nk6.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3614/webbingfails.jpg

Even with the one good example there is of Spiderman managing to pull it off in that alley encounter, Wolverine STILL got out the moment he decided to. He said he was just waiting and hoping the webbing was going to dissolve faster, which really is PIS as if the guy who takes swan dives out of airplanes, and sits in cars strapped with C4 of his own free will is about be scared of poking himself in the head a little?

Maybe some people feel Spiderman "should" be able to easily web up Logan, but that hasn't been in the case in almost half a dozen examples including these ones.

And yeah, drowning Logan only works as long as you keep drowning him so that's not a permanent solution either. And we've seen this demonstrated with the tiger shark moment, the Sabretooth moment, and then further suggested by the Wayverine Deadpool fight.


And yeah, Spiderman's scared of Wolverine, and he should be. Wolverine is a LETHAL melee combatant. Spiderman having "tougher, bigger, badder" foes isn't really a reason to discard that fact. Most of Spiderman's foes may have more elaborate powers than Wolverine, but they're not as effective in combat. Wolverine is a broken character for most melee confrontations.
That's why Shield regarded him on a higher threat level than Spiderman.
That's why the 198 files classify him as a "severe" level threat
That's why he has a reputation spanning the universe, the multiverse, and pantheons on high.

This isn't news. Just because he's barely a 5 foot midget doesn't mean he's not dangerous, and that's what scares Spidey, he's dangerous, and wildly unpredictable at times.


Not sure what you think this thread "debunked" but if it was that simple a conclusion to come to, we wouldn't have a 1000 page thread about it, don't be so obtuse. Because "danger" is what scares Spider-man the most? no expression

You think Wolverine not using his claws right away was PIS but Spider-man being scared isnt?
Its not like Spider-man was scared of Wolverine because of his amazing cqc skills. He was just "affraid to be killed by a mad man". Apparently because risking his life for others is something totally new to him and it wasn't shown a few HUNDRED times that he's willing to die as long as he does it while helping others.no expression This is PIS at its worst. To make a comparisson - if Wolverine started crying because someone stepped on his foot, not even that would be a PIS/CIS example as bad as this one.
And thankfully, that was a one-time thing. Spider-man wasnt affraid of Wolverine when they first met, and he didnt display simillar fear of him in the later encounters. And I dont see a single logical reason why he should.

And it doesnt matter how skilled your oponnent is if you're affraid of the very idea of "dying". Getting stabbed to death is getting stabbed death whether it's Jack the Ripper or Jackie Chun with a machette who stabs you. For some reason in that book Spider-man was generally affraid to die and it effected him to the point where he couldnt fight back at first. That controdicts his entire history and is plain retarded no matter how you look at it

As for webbing, books suggest Spider-man can't web him up. But the thing is, plot often prevents him from using a bigger amount of webbing during fights. Because of that reason he even failed to web up a loser like Scarecrow. But we know for a fact he can create a giant wall of webbing or a 20 foot radius web ball all within seconds. He'd never try it to end a fight instantly in a book but we know he can.

jinzin
Originally posted by SamZED
Because "danger" is what scares Spider-man the most? no expression

You think Wolverine not using his claws right away was PIS but Spider-man being scared isnt?
Its not like Spider-man was scared of Wolverine because of his amazing cqc skills. He was just "affraid to be killed by a mad man". Apparently because risking his life for others is something totally new to him and it wasn't shown a few HUNDRED times that he's willing to die as long as he does it while helping others.no expression This is PIS at its worst. To make a comparisson - if Wolverine started crying because someone stepped on his foot, not even that would be a PIS/CIS example as bad as this one.
And thankfully, that was a one-time thing. Spider-man wasnt affraid of Wolverine when they first met, and he didnt display simillar fear of him in the later encounters. And I dont see a single logical reason why he should.

And it doesnt matter how skilled your oponnent is if you're affraid of the very idea of "dying". Getting stabbed to death is getting stabbed death whether it's Jack the Ripper or Jackie Chun with a machette who stabs you. For some reason in that book Spider-man was generally affraid to die and it effected him to the point where he couldnt fight back at first. That controdicts his entire history and is plain retarded no matter how you look at it

As for webbing, books suggest Spider-man can't web him up. But the thing is, plot often prevents him from using a bigger amount of webbing during fights. Because of that reason he even failed to web up a loser like Scarecrow. But we know for a fact he can create a giant wall of webbing or a 20 foot radius web ball all within seconds. He'd never try it to end a fight instantly in a book but we know he can.


Thing is, I'm talking about their overall relationship with one another, not just in that book, I wasn't referencing that book specifically. Spiderman is afraid of Wolverine approximately half of the time. Yeah sometimes he gets pissed off at Wolverine but when he's not pissed with Wolverine he's afraid of him. It's part of their dynamic... and if you don't see the difference between comparing how Spiderman might feel about his typical Saturday morning villain who might have some nice powers, and talk a good game, and a psycho who Spiderman has witnessed killing dozens of men, who has a death count literally in the tens of thousands if not more, and who goes rounds and takes down opposition like the Hulk, stalemates his hero Captain America, and has a better track record against those bad guys than he does himself... Well.... I'm not sure what to tell you. Fact is, Wolverine's killed more people than most of Spiderman's rogues gallery combined and as dangerous as Spiderman has made Lizard out to be in the past, Wolverine effortlessly made quick work of him. How many of Spiderman's baddy's have feats comparible to things like Wolverine killing or incapacitating over 200 super villains? They don't.

What I would assume makes him maybe a bit more threatening is the simple fact that he's a good guy... or at least he's supposed to be. Having someone you know is an enemy is a lot easier to deal with than someone who's supposed to be your friend/ally but might stab you at any minute.

As for the webbing, sometimes he uses mass amounts, most times he's doesn't. And the majority of the times he fails to are in fights.


The MK examples shows Spiderman continuing to try to web Wolverine as Wolv's was breaking free, their limited series example shows Spiderman using a mass amount of webbing and it being completely shredded through near instantly.

I guess some people are comfortable using off hand examples that don't have anything to do with the direct comparisons, but the direct comparisons that exist tell a pretty clear tale imo.

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by jinzin
Maybe that's what he would like to do, but he's got a terrible record of when it comes to trying to web Wolverine up.... erm

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6610/max0006gn9.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8474/mksm1322dc1.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1142/webs2nk6.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3614/webbingfails.jpg


Your third scan is invalid. That was after he was webbed up, and it really took him some time to free himself.

Mindset
Originally posted by jinzin


The MK examples shows Spiderman continuing to try to web Wolverine as Wolv's was breaking free, their limited series example shows Spiderman using a mass amount of webbing and it being completely shredded through near instantly.

And neither example makes sense.

Him being able to cut part of the webs wouldn't matter because he arms would still be stuck.

Anyway, Spiderman 10/10.

Sr J-Bieb
Isn't Marvel Knights considered an alternate reality?

carver9
No.

Sr J-Bieb
Hmm. Wolverine fans lied to me many years back then. That was the biggest reason I never paid much attention to them...

Horrificus
Originally posted by SamZED
There were made several attempts to rip Logan apart and to cut his head off. Even by people stronger than Spidey. The adamantium skeleton makes it impossible. Dont know how that works exactly, there was no official statement to my knowledge. But comics support it. At the same time Logan on 2 different occasions admitted that his neck can be broken. no expression But feats > statement.

As for webs, Logan can cut though it. TTT, Spider-man never tried to web him up with more than few threads. A whole cartridge should be enough to immobilize Logan at least for some time but in that case getting to his head would be impossible.

Hope that helped. Anything in the human body that CAN regenerate, will heal superhumanly due to his HF. But, some stuff does not heal. Including spinal columns. And, that wouldn't be the same as a nerve in an arm being severed.

If the spinal column is severed, none of "the good stuff" works anymore, including anything that keeps the HF going. No more communication between the brain and the body.

Maybe that's why he told Spidey that he could have killed him when he had Wolvie by the neck. Also, the nerves can be severed without actually breaking any bones.

jinzin
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Your third scan is invalid. That was after he was webbed up, and it really took him some time to free himself.

yyyyyyeah no it's not. Wolverine got out as soon as he chose to, simple as that.

jinzin
Originally posted by Horrificus
Anything in the human body that CAN regenerate, will heal superhumanly due to his HF. But, some stuff does not heal. Including spinal columns. And, that wouldn't be the same as a nerve in an arm being severed.

If the spinal column is severed, none of "the good stuff" works anymore, including anything that keeps the HF going. No more communication between the brain and the body.

Maybe that's why he told Spidey that he could have killed him when he had Wolvie by the neck. Also, the nerves can be severed without actually breaking any bones.
Wolverine's healed from decapitation. no expression

Parmaniac
I like the hypocracy here, the one scan is from a book that everyone directly calls BS as soon as someone wants to use it against Wolverine, yet if a feat from that book is required to support Wolverine apparently it's nothing wrong with mentioning stuff from said book. Same goes for "Wayverine" btw, trying to dismiss entire runs of Wolverine (unless there are feats taht seem to be useful) simply because the character isn't portrayed the way someone wants him to be is a pretty shitty idea in the first place.

Also the last one screams PIS his arms ware webbed to his body it makes 0 sense of his getting out of that and completely bursting that shit off of him and I also like how (of course) only these 2 panels are used because Spider-man is actually punching away Wolverine without being afraid of him nor hurting his hand and he is also not getting touched by Wolverine except loosing some beard hairs which he usually doesn't have anyways. Also lol at the 3rd scan and saying he went out of the webbing anytime he wanted to he was struggeling and needed 5 panels to get out a simple extra shot from his webbing should have done the job quite well.

And if you want I can start with usual web ups of Spider-man and the amount of webbing he regular uses (and actually you already know that it's much more than it is used there, even shitty ass grandma robbers usually get webbed up in big fat cocoons) if you really want to use these showings as proof get ready to get spammed with the dozens of time Wolverine was 1 or "few shotted" and how that doesn't make any sense either but it happens and recently it actually happens a lot, even the typical "but the majority of times" (that you again just used to low ball Spider-mans times to web people up with a proper amount of webbing) argument doesn't fly anymore but of course to disproof this argument someone would need to fanatically collect his low showings which no normal person would do.

While I would agree that certain charcters work different on forums it's surely not only Wolverine and all of his illogical low showings get thrown away while everything he does is 100% legit that's some hypocritical shit right there.

EDIT: Also lol at Wolverine killing 200 super villains because most of Spider-mans villains would lack the amount of showings anyways and Wolverine's villain roster consists of like 6-8 established powerful villains the rest is mere fodder quality or had context stuff like this chick that was wearing a morningstar in her hair (yeah crazy powerful) or when he "defeated" the guy with the drums from Apocs horsemen.

SamZED
Originally posted by jinzin
Thing is, I'm talking about their overall relationship with one another, not just in that book, I wasn't referencing that book specifically. Spiderman is afraid of Wolverine approximately half of the time. Yeah sometimes he gets pissed off at Wolverine but when he's not pissed with Wolverine he's afraid of him. It's part of their dynamic... and if you don't see the difference between comparing how Spiderman might feel about his typical Saturday morning villain who might have some nice powers, and talk a good game, and a psycho who Spiderman has witnessed killing dozens of men, who has a death count literally in the tens of thousands if not more, and who goes rounds and takes down opposition like the Hulk, stalemates his hero Captain America, and has a better track record against those bad guys than he does himself... Well.... I'm not sure what to tell you. Fact is, Wolverine's killed more people than most of Spiderman's rogues gallery combined and as dangerous as Spiderman has made Lizard out to be in the past, Wolverine effortlessly made quick work of him. How many of Spiderman's baddy's have feats comparible to things like Wolverine killing or incapacitating over 200 super villains? They don't.

What I would assume makes him maybe a bit more threatening is the simple fact that he's a good guy... or at least he's supposed to be. Having someone you know is an enemy is a lot easier to deal with than someone who's supposed to be your friend/ally but might stab you at any minute.

As for the webbing, sometimes he uses mass amounts, most times he's doesn't. And the majority of the times he fails to are in fights.


The MK examples shows Spiderman continuing to try to web Wolverine as Wolv's was breaking free, their limited series example shows Spiderman using a mass amount of webbing and it being completely shredded through near instantly.

I guess some people are comfortable using off hand examples that don't have anything to do with the direct comparisons, but the direct comparisons that exist tell a pretty clear tale imo.
If you're talking overall dynamics im ok with it. But its not really fear. More of a comedy act. "ZOMG he's the last person I wanna mess with" thing. The same way Deadpool was affraid of Sabertooth.

It's not that I dont see the difference between some lame supervillain and Wolverine. My point - there should BE NO difference to Spider-man. NOT in that particular situation. First of all, when they fought Spider-man didn't know that Logan beat Cap, killed gazillion people etc (and tbh that last part wasn't much of a problem when he fought Carnage) And even if he did know all that it still wouldnt matter. Not when someone's in danger. Look..

I take back what I said, I was wrong. I still say its one of the worst PIS/CIS examples in Spider-man's history but not because he was affraid to die. Now that I think about it, its in his character to fear death.
Its CIS/PIS because that fear caused him to be in shock, he couldnt talk and was unable to fight back even though an innocent life was in danger. Now THAT beats BP's cosmic armbar any day and goes against everything Spider-man.

The same guy who fights braineating aliens all the time.
The same guy who while stranded in time had to relive every single supervillain battle he's ever had and didnt give up.
The same guy who made jokes while attacking Galactus.
The same guy who attacked a 50-foot Thanos while they both were in Death's realm. He didnt give a crap there's no hope of winning, or that he'll die. Why? Because an innocent girl was in danger.


Now Jin, look me in the avatar and tell me all the impressive/scary things you mentioned about Logan would mean jack to Pete when he's trying to save someone. I know for a fact that you read Spider-man so I have no idea where this is coming from.

I dont even need to look for examples. This book came out 2 days ago. Now this is a well-written Spider-man.
Pete is tired/beat/poisont. The guy he's fighting JUST sh!tstomped the Red Hulk in less than 3 panels, sliced him open and left him for death right infront of Pete.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3946/avengingspiderman3thegr.jpg

And SM here is fighting for some no name mole people. Is about to get executed. Is he scared? Probably. Is he paralized in shock, unable to speak and givving up? Hell no.

Now tell me you agree with me. stick out tongue
_____________________________________________

Direct comparisons are better than off hand examples. Agreed. Except for the times when the attack shown in the offhand example is different from the one shown in the direct comparison. For example most of Spider-man/Human Torch fights.

In 99% of their encounters Spider-man easilly dodges all of Johnny's fire blasts. On the other hand, there are examples of Johnny going nova. And if I ever try to use Pete's and Johnny's encounters as a proof that Spider-man can dodge Human Torch's omnidirectional nova blast feel free to punch me in the face. Same here.

To say that the amount of webbing Spider-man used against Wolverine is the same amount his web shooters can produce when he's not holding anything back is a pretty big stretch. In MK he really was webbing Logan up for some time. From the looks of it a couple seconds. And yet there were only few threads. And we know for a fact that when Pete goes all out few seconds is enough for his shooters to create a web ball 20 or 30 feet in diameter. And the only thing stopping him from trying that with Scarecrow, Logan, Black Cat, Deadpool and others is plot.

cdtm
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Hmm. Wolverine fans lied to me many years back then. That was the biggest reason I never paid much attention to them...

It's the same for any fanboy.

Except Iron Fist fanboys, of course. wink

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by jinzin
yyyyyyeah no it's not. Wolverine got out as soon as he chose to, simple as that.
Nope.

the ninjak
Spidey wins via webbing.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by jinzin
yyyyyyeah no it's not. Wolverine got out as soon as he chose to, simple as that.

He just happened to make that choice about an hour later cool

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by SamZED
If you're talking overall dynamics im ok with it. But its not really fear. More of a comedy act. "ZOMG he's the last person I wanna mess with" thing. The same way Deadpool was affraid of Sabertooth.

It's not that I dont see the difference between some lame supervillain and Wolverine. My point - there should BE NO difference to Spider-man. NOT in that particular situation. First of all, when they fought Spider-man didn't know that Logan beat Cap, killed gazillion people etc (and tbh that last part wasn't much of a problem when he fought Carnage) And even if he did know all that it still wouldnt matter. Not when someone's in danger. Look..

I take back what I said, I was wrong. I still say its one of the worst PIS/CIS examples in Spider-man's history but not because he was affraid to die. Now that I think about it, its in his character to fear death.
Its CIS/PIS because that fear caused him to be in shock, he couldnt talk and was unable to fight back even though an innocent life was in danger. Now THAT beats BP's cosmic armbar any day and goes against everything Spider-man.

The same guy who fights braineating aliens all the time.
The same guy who while stranded in time had to relive every single supervillain battle he's ever had and didnt give up.
The same guy who made jokes while attacking Galactus.
The same guy who attacked a 50-foot Thanos while they both were in Death's realm. He didnt give a crap there's no hope of winning, or that he'll die. Why? Because an innocent girl was in danger.


Now Jin, look me in the avatar and tell me all the impressive/scary things you mentioned about Logan would mean jack to Pete when he's trying to save someone. I know for a fact that you read Spider-man so I have no idea where this is coming from.

I dont even need to look for examples. This book came out 2 days ago. Now this is a well-written Spider-man.
Pete is tired/beat/poisont. The guy he's fighting JUST sh!tstomped the Red Hulk in less than 3 panels, sliced him open and left him for death right infront of Pete.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3946/avengingspiderman3thegr.jpg

And SM here is fighting for some no name mole people. Is about to get executed. Is he scared? Probably. Is he paralized in shock, unable to speak and givving up? Hell no.

Now tell me you agree with me. stick out tongue
_____________________________________________

Direct comparisons are better than off hand examples. Agreed. Except for the times when the attack shown in the offhand example is different from the one shown in the direct comparison. For example most of Spider-man/Human Torch fights.

In 99% of their encounters Spider-man easilly dodges all of Johnny's fire blasts. On the other hand, there are examples of Johnny going nova. And if I ever try to use Pete's and Johnny's encounters as a proof that Spider-man can dodge Human Torch's omnidirectional nova blast feel free to punch me in the face. Same here.

To say that the amount of webbing Spider-man used against Wolverine is the same amount his web shooters can produce when he's not holding anything back is a pretty big stretch. In MK he really was webbing Logan up for some time. From the looks of it a couple seconds. And yet there were only few threads. And we know for a fact that when Pete goes all out few seconds is enough for his shooters to create a web ball 20 or 30 feet in diameter. And the only thing stopping him from trying that with Scarecrow, Logan, Black Cat, Deadpool and others is plot.

Uncertainty my friend. A villain who will kill for certain, is less frightening than a hero that might. At least if you know you are going to die you can resign yourself to your fate...

Spider-man still webs up Wolverine for at least 9/10 though.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxxnqeagWE1r3p7imo1_500.gif

Digi
We have an epic Wolverine vs. Spidey thread. Use that. We're not having another because someone thinks they solved it in two sentences.

OP wins though; hilarious post.

Closed.

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