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Who can lift more over their head? Who has the single best strength feat?

Superman is stronger than Thor,

how much is up for debate but imo not by much.

Originally posted by Newjak
Superman is stronger than Thor,

how much is up for debate but imo not by much.

What's your personal feeling on how much? What do you consider the best strength feat for each character?

What type of fts are you looking for strength wise? Pulling, lifting, or striking because both have fts that are over the other in each category. I would say they are equals. If they were to arm wrestle, it would probably be a stalemate.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
What's your personal feeling on how much? What do you consider the best strength feat for each character? Not a lot,

Like if I were to put it in human strength levels.

Superman would bench the equivalent of 25-30 lbs more than what Thor could.

Like Thor could bench 400

Superman would bench 430 or something.

It's close and they both are top tier strength

Average there the same.

High end superman is stronger than everybody though

Kal is stronger.

Superman.

The fact that he can move his arms a lot faster, would also theoretically help with strength lifts.

Superman's greatest strength feats have come when he's flying. So he's not using muscle when he's performing in mid air, but an extension of touch telekinesis.
While Thor has at least partially lifted the Midgard Serpent - who's mass is equal to that of Earth.
I would mostly give Thor the edge in raw strength, but I generally think of this category as a wash between the two.

Originally posted by roughrider
Superman's greatest strength feats have come when he's flying. So he's not using muscle when he's performing in mid air, but an extension of touch telekinesis.
While Thor has at least partially lifted the Midgard Serpent - who's mass is equal to that of Earth.
I would mostly give Thor the edge in raw strength, but I generally think of this category as a wash between the two. a high end superman is lifting book with infinite pages sans flight though... Moot point really as DC tends to be more forgiving to plot strength and Superman pulls it up enough I can't really call it PIS for him to be at that level. Unfair advantage to him over thor but there it is

Originally posted by Uriel005
a high end superman is lifting book with infinite pages sans flight though... Moot point really as DC tends to be more forgiving to plot strength and Superman pulls it up enough I can't really call it PIS for him to be at that level. Unfair advantage to him over thor but there it is the book of infinite pages is pretty irrelevant since it is more of an abstract feat with no real way of gauging it and it is similar to what other marvel characters have done yet some being far below superman and thor's strength.

Originally posted by roughrider
Superman's greatest strength feats have come when he's flying. So he's not using muscle when he's performing in mid air, but an extension of touch telekinesis.
While Thor has at least partially lifted the Midgard Serpent - who's mass is equal to that of Earth.
I would mostly give Thor the edge in raw strength, but I generally think of this category as a wash between the two.
That's been retconned along with his aura. Even in that era it was almost always forgotten

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/AdventuresOfAnnual02b.jpg

Considering that two of his best feats (infinity lifting and maggedon) happened with him standing and for another he needed hal to make a construct (moving earth), this tactile-telikinesis non-sense holds no water. Kal IS stronger.

Originally posted by Uriel005
a high end superman is lifting book with infinite pages sans flight though... Moot point really as DC tends to be more forgiving to plot strength and Superman pulls it up enough I can't really call it PIS for him to be at that level. Unfair advantage to him over thor but there it is

So with that said, you agree Ultraman is stronger than Superman?

Originally posted by Nietzschean
the book of infinite pages is pretty irrelevant since it is more of an abstract feat with no real way of gauging it and it is similar to what other marvel characters have done yet some being far below superman and thor's strength.
He's done it twice, slowing down the fall of spectre along with diana.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's been retconned along with his aura. Even in that era it was almost always forgotten

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/AdventuresOfAnnual02b.jpg

Considering that two of his best feats (infinity lifting and maggedon) happened with him standing and for another he needed hal to make a construct (moving earth), this tactile-telikinesis non-sense holds no water. Kal IS stronger.

Tactile-telekinesis is not 'non-sense'.

It's a great explanation for how he can lift huge shit, without the objects' own weight collapsing in on itself.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's done it twice, slowing down the fall of spectre along with diana.

Black Adam punch through Spectre...so did Black Adam punch through infinity?

Originally posted by carver9
So with that said, you agree Ultraman is stronger than Superman?
What's greater carv, infinity or half of infinity?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What's greater carv, infinity or half of infinity?

Superman needed help...Ultraman did it with ease.

Originally posted by carver9
Black Adam punch through Spectre...so did Black Adam punch through infinity?
Now you are just reaching. Where was stated that adam punched through an "infinite spectre"? Spectre was just a spirit in DOV without a host made of nectoplasm. Superman easily breached it in Action 829.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's done it twice, slowing down the fall of spectre along with diana. u completely missed the point i made

Originally posted by carver9
Superman needed help...Ultraman did it with ease.
And? You didn't answer my question.

On average, almost certainly on par. Push comes to shove, I'd give the nod to Superman barring shit like Warrior Madness, all-out etc. Just makes stuff more complicated.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
u completely missed the point i made
What was your point?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Tactile-telekinesis is not 'non-sense'.

It's a great explanation for how he can lift huge shit, without the objects' own weight collapsing in on itself.
Who cares? It's comics, that's all the explanation needed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's done it twice, slowing down the fall of spectre along with diana.

I remember that page of Clark & Diana apparently slowing the weight of infinity, as that is what the Spectre is supposed to weigh. And let the Spectre crashes and lands on a lunar surface. Strange how something that weighed as much as infinity didn't smash right through the surface and keep on going. It's comics logic.

Originally posted by roughrider
I remember that page of Clark & Diana apparently slowing the weight of infinity, as that is what the Spectre is supposed to weigh. And let the Spectre crashes and lands on a lunar surface. Strange how something that weighed as much as infinity didn't smash right through the surface and keep on going. It's comics logic.
You got that right. It's comics. Kal also held a black hole in his hand while standing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who cares? It's comics, that's all the explanation needed.

The writer(s) obviously cared enough to create the explanation.

Giving an explanation for the impossible is not the angle that can be called, 'nonsense', logically.

Superman lifting a mountain = nonsense.

Superman lifting a mountain because his tactile tk allows him to spread the force over the entire mass = oh wow. clever idea.

If you want to just turn off your brain to logic in comics, (which is fine) at least be consistent about it. Afterall. You are trying to push here that lifting 'half of infinity' is equivalent to lifting full 'infinity' because logically it should be. But guess what? 'It's comics'.

Superman needed help and struggled, Ultraman did not. It's non-sense, focus on quantifiable feats (Especially since Thor has a feat or two regarding something as stupid as 'infinite' weight as well). In which case, Superman should still have the edge.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You got that right. It's comics. Kal also held a black hole in his hand while standing.

When?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The writer(s) obviously cared enough to create the explanation.

Giving an explanation for the impossible is not the angle that can be called, 'nonsense', logically.

Superman lifting a mountain = nonsense.

Superman lifting a mountain because his tactile tk allows him to spread the force over the entire mass = oh wow. clever idea.

If you want to just turn off your brain to logic in comics, (which is fine) at least be consistent about it. Afterall. You are trying to push here that lifting 'half of infinity' is equivalent to lifting full 'infinity' because logically it should be. But guess what? 'It's comics'.

Superman needed help and struggled, Ultraman did not. It's non-sense, focus on quantifiable feats (Especially since Thor has a feat or two regarding something as stupid as 'infinite' weight as well). In which case, Superman should still have the edge.
It's called "suspension of disbelief". Look no further than a gl ring or power cosmic or magic or almost anything in comics. If you want to insert real world physics into comics, be my guest. Those are just silver age hyperboles.

Originally posted by carver9
When?
JLA 77.

Originally posted by abhilegend
JLA 77.

I knew you was talking about that. Post the entire scene so everyone can see it. I want to start it off by saying "the black hole was contained". Now post the rest.

On average Superman is stronger
At highest Superman is stronger

Most say by a little but I say by a lot. My reasoning is that I base the highest quantifiable feat as a character's strength level. Some go by averages (I don't).

Superman has quantifiable feats exceeding 50 Earth weights of force.
I'm not sure if Thor has any quantifiable feats above 1 Earth weight.

Originally posted by carver9
I knew you was talking about that. Post the entire scene so everyone can see it. I want to start it off by saying "the black hole was contained". Now post the rest.
Wrong as usual.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9199/supermanblackhole0015ak.jpg

Originally posted by h1a8
On average Superman is stronger
At highest Superman is stronger

Most say by a little but I say by a lot. My reasoning is that I base the highest quantifiable feat as a character's strength level. Some go by averages (I don't).

Superman has quantifiable feats exceeding 50 Earth weights of force.
I'm not sure if Thor has any quantifiable feats above 1 Earth weight.

So you're saying Superman is at least 50x stronger than Thor?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wrong as usual.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9199/supermanblackhole0015ak.jpg

Post the rest. It's stated on panel that the containment field was slowly depleting while it was in Superman hands.

Originally posted by h1a8
On average Superman is stronger
At highest Superman is stronger

Most say by a little but I say by a lot. My reasoning is that I base the highest quantifiable feat as a character's strength level. Some go by averages (I don't).

Superman has quantifiable feats exceeding 50 Earth weights of force.
I'm not sure if Thor has any quantifiable feats above 1 Earth weight.
Lulz.

Originally posted by vince_slice
So you're saying Superman is at least 50x stronger than Thor? On average I would say about 3-5 times. But at best I would say more than 1000x

Originally posted by h1a8
On average I would say about 3-5 times. But at best I would say more than 1000x

So how much stronger is a GL over Thor since he aided in pulling the 50 Times Earth weight (lol).?

Originally posted by carver9
Post the rest. It's stated on panel that the containment field was slowly depleting while it was in Superman hands.
Why don't you do it? What does that prove anyway? We already saw superman almost got sucked in that black hole.

Originally posted by carver9
So how much stronger is a GL over Thor since he aided in pulling the 50 Times Earth weight (lol).?

Assuming the GL did half the pulling then it would be the same.

Originally posted by h1a8
Assuming the GL did half the pulling then it would be the same.

Lol...gotcha. Now here is a question I would like to know. How much stronger is Diana over regular Superman since she caught a punch with one hand from a pissed Superman that was merged with Doomsday?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why don't you do it? What does that prove anyway? We already saw superman almost got sucked in that black hole.

If that black hole wasn't contained...more than Superman would have been sucked in. Martian Manhunter stated that once the containment field was depleted, the Earth would be destroyed.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...gotcha. Now here is a question I would like to know. How much stronger is Diana over regular Superman since she caught a punch with one hand from a pissed Superman that was merged with Doomsday?
Lulz. First read the comic carvy, it wasn't doomsday merged with superman, it was a superman whose pain was turned physical by circe. That's the same comic where diana said kal would kill her with 3 blocked punches. That's why no one read wonder woman back in the day.

Originally posted by carver9
If that black hole wasn't contained...more than Superman would have been sucked in. Martian Manhunter stated that once the containment field was depleted, the Earth would be destroyed.
And? J'onn isn't a reliable source. Superman stated that it was partially contained and we saw him almost get sucked in. That's more reliable than manhunter's words. Who was holding the black hole anyway?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz. First read the comic carvy, it wasn't doomsday merged with superman, it was a superman whose pain was turned physical by circe. That's the same comic where diana said kal would kill her with 3 blocked punches. That's why no one read wonder woman back in the day.

I never said she was more durable than Superman,I said she blocked his punch and she did.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And? J'onn isn't a reliable source. Superman stated that it was partially contained and we saw him almost get sucked in. That's more reliable than manhunter's words. Who was holding the black hole anyway?

So Manhunter was lying.?

Originally posted by Newjak
Not a lot,

Like if I were to put it in human strength levels.

Superman would bench the equivalent of 25-30 lbs more than what Thor could.

Like Thor could bench 400

Superman would bench 430 or something.

It's close and they both are top tier strength
If this were true it would be like Thor lifted 400 and SM lifted 402
But it's not.

Originally posted by BattleMage
If this were true it would be like Thor lifted 400 and SM lifted 402
But it's not. Yeah true I may have been giving Superman to big a gap

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...gotcha. Now here is a question I would like to know. How much stronger is Diana over regular Superman since she caught a punch with one hand from a pissed Superman that was merged with Doomsday? Blocking someone punch doesn't require greater strength. For example, a weaker martial artist can easily block a stronger character's punch. A catch is a block only that you can absorb the punch. It takes skill.

Also we can't go by stuff like that since all characters are sometimes written down and up to match another character. Look at Thor vs. Ulik or more extreme Firelord vs. Spider-man.

Lastly, character's strength level flucuates from comic to comic. So Superman or Glads punching someone with all their might doesn't mean they are striking with the force they have been shown to generate in another comic. For example, most of the time when Glads punches someone it isn't with planet busting force. Surfer doesn't blast with planet destroying force.

The problem here is that you created a double standard. You like to go by feats, yet when others argue feats on the D.C. side you argue that we can't go by feats. What gives?

Originally posted by h1a8
Blocking someone punch doesn't require greater strength. For example, a weaker martial artist can easily block a stronger character's punch. A catch is a block only that you can absorb the punch. It takes skill.

Also we can't go by stuff like that since all characters are sometimes written down and up to match another character. Look at Thor vs. Ulik or more extreme Firelord vs. Spider-man.

Lastly, character's strength level flucuates from comic to comic. So Superman or Glads punching someone with all their might doesn't mean they are striking with the force they have been shown to generate in another comic. For example, most of the time when Glads punches someone it isn't with planet busting force. Surfer doesn't blast with planet destroying force.

The problem here is that you created a double standard. You like to go by feats, yet when others argue feats on the D.C. side you argue that we can't go by feats. What gives?

So a pissed Superman that was amped punching at Wonder Woman and her catching this punch isn't a sign of strength. What fts am I dismissing to suggest Superman is stronger than Thor. Thor clashed hammers with another Thor which resulted in a impact resembling the big bang. That surpass any strength ft I can think of. Now go ahead and downplay.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The writer(s) obviously cared enough to create the explanation.

Giving an explanation for the impossible is not the angle that can be called, 'nonsense', logically.

Superman lifting a mountain = nonsense.

Superman lifting a mountain because his tactile tk allows him to spread the force over the entire mass = oh wow. clever idea.

If you want to just turn off your brain to logic in comics, (which is fine) at least be consistent about it. Afterall. You are trying to push here that lifting 'half of infinity' is equivalent to lifting full 'infinity' because logically it should be. But guess what? 'It's comics'.

Superman needed help and struggled, Ultraman did not. It's non-sense, focus on quantifiable feats (Especially since Thor has a feat or two regarding something as stupid as 'infinite' weight as well). In which case, Superman should still have the edge.

All this infinite weight stuff is farcical. Quantifiable stuff is certainly the way to go as opposed to abstract/metaphysical and self contradictory feats ( iirc spectre was the weight of eternity and yet he was able to fall on the moon without sending it spiraling out of orbit or spliting it to pieces).

Superman is stronger than Thor either way though. Not by anything close to a considerable margin but pretty inarguable imo.

What do you guys think is Thor's single BEST lifting feat?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's been retconned along with his aura. Even in that era it was almost always forgotten

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/AdventuresOfAnnual02b.jpg

Considering that two of his best feats (infinity lifting and maggedon) happened with him standing and for another he needed hal to make a construct (moving earth), this tactile-telikinesis non-sense holds no water. Kal IS stronger. It has not been retconned, superman does not use much strength when flying heavy objects, he strains to lift a mountain until he starts flying and he tells why himself. Superman lifting feats are not as great as thors when it comes to pure strength... look at 16 and 17.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/BatmanvsWolverine/news/?a=49617

Originally posted by abhilegend
And? J'onn isn't a reliable source. Superman stated that it was partially contained and we saw him almost get sucked in. That's more reliable than manhunter's words. Who was holding the black hole anyway? Havoc has held a black hole back using his powers...
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/electro-vs-havok/561506/?page=3

Originally posted by h1a8
On average I would say about 3-5 times. But at best I would say more than 1000x


Keep reaching.

Originally posted by country1000
Havoc has held a black hole back using his powers...
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/electro-vs-havok/561506/?page=3 Its not the same genius

Originally posted by carver9
So a pissed Superman that was amped punching at Wonder Woman and her catching this punch isn't a sign of strength. What fts am I dismissing to suggest Superman is stronger than Thor. Thor clashed hammers with another Thor which resulted in a impact resembling the big bang. That surpass any strength ft I can think of. Now go ahead and downplay.


The hammer feat wasn't a strength feat. The hammers are imbued with magic and energy drawn from other dimensions. If the hammers were regular uru hammers (no enchantments) then nothing would have happened when the Thors clashed.

To answer your question, it is a sign of both strength and skill. But to achieve the feat doesn't require more strength than the being who throws the punch.

Superman is stronger and faster but has weaknesses. Thor is more versatile and doesn't have glaring weakness.

Originally posted by h1a8
The hammer feat wasn't a strength feat. The hammers are imbued with magic and energy drawn from other dimensions. If the hammers were regular uru hammers (no enchantments) then nothing would have happened when the Thors clashed.

To answer your question, it is a sign of both strength and skill. But to achieve the feat doesn't require more strength than the being who throws the punch.

Superman is stronger and faster but has weaknesses. Thor is more versatile and doesn't have glaring weakness.

How does skill have anything to do with two hammers colliding creating a force equal to the big bang? I also want you to prove magic had something to do with it.

Superman imo.

They are pretty much equals, in raw high end strength I say Thor not by much!!

Quick question guys.Since this is a strength feat thread.Here's my question.In Thor#425, Thor was able to hurl Surtur's Twilight Sword against Surtur and Ymir.We all know Surtur destroyed a Galaxy forging this sword.Is this considered Thor lifting and hurling a Galaxy since Twilight is forged by destroying a Galaxy?

not when magic is involved

Originally posted by country1000
It has not been retconned, superman does not use much strength when flying heavy objects, he strains to lift a mountain until he starts flying and he tells why himself. Superman lifting feats are not as great as thors when it comes to pure strength... look at 16 and 17.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/BatmanvsWolverine/news/?a=49617
Byrne era. Do you know what a retcon means? Almost anything in 90's and before were explained as SBP meddling with time stream. Son byrne's man of steel and Waid's Birthright and their explanation of superman's powers were glitches in the time-stream.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Realityalterpunch2.jpg

You can see multiple rockets leaving a destructing krypton. They are indicative of many origins of superman since COIE which are no longer canon and anything linked with those origins are retconned away like parallax bug retconned away emerald twilight and zero hour. So try again with something recent.

Originally posted by Igniz
Quick question guys.Since this is a strength feat thread.Here's my question.In Thor#425, Thor was able to hurl Surtur's Twilight Sword against Surtur and Ymir.We all know Surtur destroyed a Galaxy forging this sword.Is this considered Thor lifting and hurling a Galaxy since Twilight is forged by destroying a Galaxy?
I would like to think so,
Originally posted by psycho gundam
not when magic is involved
but then there's also that.


was its weight ever explicitly referred to as being equivalent to a galaxy?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
not when magic is involved

Can't the same be said regarding Superman lifting the book with infinite pages?

Originally posted by carver9
I never said she was more durable than Superman,I said she blocked his punch and she did.
No, she said he would tear both of her arms from sockets by just punching her bracelets. I take you didn't read the comic, superman was not amped. Circe turned his pain physical which resulted in him growing bone protrusions. Where was it stated that he was amped?
Originally posted by carver9
So Manhunter was lying.?

Obviously.

Originally posted by carver9
So a pissed Superman that was amped punching at Wonder Woman and her catching this punch isn't a sign of strength. What fts am I dismissing to suggest Superman is stronger than Thor. Thor clashed hammers with another Thor which resulted in a impact resembling the big bang. That surpass any strength ft I can think of. Now go ahead and downplay.

It was specifically stated that it was a bolt of mystic energy and "big bang" was obviously a hyperbole.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir165-StrikingPower439.jpg

Kal-EL and Kal-L broke entire space-time by punching each other

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/70950400rk0.jpg

People take that book feat a bit too literally. I've even seen people try to use math calculations and shit. ermm

It proves that Superman is very strong, we run into problems when we got past that. A better strength feat would be Superman slowing down and stopping that huge Monitor ship.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was specifically stated that it was a bolt of mystic energy and "big bang" was obviously a hyperbole.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir165-StrikingPower439.jpg

Kal-EL and Kal-L broke entire space-time by punching each other

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/70950400rk0.jpg

Possibly but probably not. Zarrako was going to use the energy/force collected from the encounter to collapse an infinite number of time lines to make him the ruler of the Multiverse or some other similar plot.

I'm going to re-read Infinite Crisis.

No need to reread the book. The time line was being screwed with during the time both Supes was fighting. Superman didn't have anything to do with breaking through space/time. That was more on Prime partner end (Alexander Luthor).

Originally posted by Igniz
Quick question guys.Since this is a strength feat thread.Here's my question.In Thor#425, Thor was able to hurl Surtur's Twilight Sword against Surtur and Ymir.We all know Surtur destroyed a Galaxy forging this sword.Is this considered Thor lifting and hurling a Galaxy since Twilight is forged by destroying a Galaxy?
Can I see the scans? I thought he hurled odinsword at arishem.

Originally posted by carver9
Can't the same be said regarding Superman lifting the book with infinite pages? No one sane considers that a quantifiable feat.

Originally posted by carver9
No need to reread the book. The time line was being screwed with during the time both Supes was fighting. Superman didn't have anything to do with breaking through space/time. That was more on Prime partner end (Alexander Luthor).

Lies make baby jesus cry.

Originally posted by carver9
No need to reread the book. The time line was being screwed with during the time both Supes was fighting. Superman didn't have anything to do with breaking through space/time. That was more on Prime partner end (Alexander Luthor).
So what happened when they punched each other in Infinite crisis 5. Don't tell me that Alex stopped to murk time-space in that book? Read Adventures of superman 649 and tell me about an on-panel statement that proves that it was due to alex phucking with the multiverse. Aren't you always demanding on-panel proof?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The writer(s) obviously cared enough to create the explanation.

Giving an explanation for the impossible is not the angle that can be called, 'nonsense', logically.

Superman lifting a mountain = nonsense.

Superman lifting a mountain because his tactile tk allows him to spread the force over the entire mass = oh wow. clever idea.

If you want to just turn off your brain to logic in comics, (which is fine) at least be consistent about it. Afterall. You are trying to push here that lifting 'half of infinity' is equivalent to lifting full 'infinity' because logically it should be. But guess what? 'It's comics'.

Superman needed help and struggled, Ultraman did not. It's non-sense, focus on quantifiable feats (Especially since Thor has a feat or two regarding something as stupid as 'infinite' weight as well). In which case, Superman should still have the edge.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Lies make baby jesus cry.




I'm not lying.

Originally posted by carver9


I'm not lying.

Yes you are.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So what happened when they punched each other in Infinite crisis 5. Don't tell me that Alex stopped to murk time-space in that book? Read Adventures of superman 649 and tell me about an on-panel statement that proves that it was due to alex phucking with the multiverse. Aren't you always demanding on-panel proof?

Time was being screwed with before and after that fight. The Supermans had nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes you are.

Read above.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
but then there's also that.


was its weight ever explicitly referred to as being equivalent to a galaxy?

No I don't remember the sword being referred to of having the weight equivalent to a Galaxy.To be honest, I asked this because a lot of people seem to buy the reasoning that it was made from a Galaxy.But I've also taken the account that said sword is forged by using magic.Surtur with the Twilight Sword gave Odin a lot of trouble.So Twilight itself gives Surtur an amp.I would probably consider it being a strength feat for Thor since I do believe Odin can wield it via the Odin power.Though if this is considered lifting and hurling a Galaxy, is still a mystery to me.Now at least we have a joke that Thor can hurl a Galaxy

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
People take that book feat a bit too literally. I've even seen people try to use math calculations and shit. ermm

It proves that Superman is very strong, we run into problems when we got past that. A better strength feat would be Superman slowing down and stopping that huge Monitor ship.



Possibly but probably not. Zarrako was going to use the energy/force collected from the encounter to collapse an infinite number of time lines to make him the ruler of the Multiverse or some other similar plot.

I'm going to re-read Infinite Crisis.
People are too eager to dismiss the book feat too. I've seen real world physics and what not to disprove that feat despite the fact that he has done a similar feat 10 years ago. It's a great feat. Possibly but it has nothing to do with their strength.

The book is obviously very heavy.

How much is not quantifiable at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Time was being screwed with before and after that fight. The Supermans had nothing to do with it.
Lulz. Any proof. I have "The struggle between us has shattered the boundries of space and time." Where's your proof?

Thor's hurled both the Twilight Sword and the Odinsword with a lot of force.

The Twilight Sword doesn't weight as much as a Galaxy by the way. It should though be pretty heavy as it was forged from a Galactic core or whatever.

Originally posted by Igniz
No I don't remember the sword being referred to of having the weight equivalent to a Galaxy.To be honest, I asked this because a lot of people seem to buy the reasoning that it was made from a Galaxy.But I've also taken the account that said sword is forged by using magic.Surtur with the Twilight Sword gave Odin a lot of trouble.So Twilight itself gives Surtur an amp.I would probably consider it being a strength feat for Thor since I do believe Odin can wield it via the Odin power.Though if this is considered lifting and hurling a Galaxy, is still a mystery to me.Now at least we have a joke that Thor can hurl a Galaxy
Originally posted by abhilegend
Can I see the scans? I thought he hurled odinsword at arishem.

Originally posted by abhilegend
People are too eager to dismiss the book feat too. I've seen real world physics and what not to disprove that feat despite the fact that he has done a similar feat 10 years ago. It's a great feat. Possibly but it has nothing to do with their strength.

I think the moment people start applying math to such a showing, they've automatically failed. How would a book with infinite pages go about existing, trying to prove how it works with real life physics? Silly.

The Spectre feat? Another one people take a bit too literally.

Trying to use these showings as evidence of infinite strength or whatever is just as bad as trying to discredit them due to butthurt (Eternity is a measure of time, the book was held by Ultraman etc.) imho.

Both those arcs have better strength feats.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's hurled both the Twilight Sword and the Odinsword with a lot of force.

The Twilight Sword doesn't weight as much as a Galaxy by the way. It should though be pretty heavy as it was forged from a Galactic core or whatever.
I skimmed through his respect thread and never saw that. Can you provide scans?

Odinsword:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsCelestials4.jpg

Twilight Sword:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThrowHurtsSurtur1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThrowHurtsSurtur2.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think the moment people start applying math to such a showing, they've automatically failed. How would a book with infinite pages go about existing, trying to prove how it works with real life physics? Silly.

The Spectre feat? Another one people take a bit too literally.

Trying to use these showings as evidence of infinite strength or whatever is just as bad as trying to discredit them due to butthurt (Eternity is a measure of time, the book was held by Ultraman etc.) imho.

Both those arcs have better strength feats.
Are you implying that h1a8 is the true representation of superman fans? We are talking about lifting feats, any and all feats are allowed. When you see me talking about superman punching someone with "infinite force", you have the right to claim BS on it. Till then its a perfectly usable feat no matter whatever anybody thinks about its absurdity. And? You are talking like comic book writer always think about these concepts. Good for ultraman, it doesn't dismiss Kal's feat.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odinsword:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsCelestials4.jpg

Twilight Sword:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThrowHurtsSurtur1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThrowHurtsSurtur2.jpg
Ok.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you implying that h1a8 is the true representation of superman fans? We are talking about lifting feats, any and all feats are allowed. When you see me talking about superman punching someone with "infinite force", you have the right to claim BS on it. Till then its a perfectly usable feat no matter whatever anybody thinks about its absurdity. And? You are talking like comic book writer always think about these concepts. Good for ultraman, it doesn't dismiss Kal's feat.

ermm

I wasn't talking about Superman fans in general. I wasn't talking about you either (Unless you have argued what I said).

It's perfectly usable, my comments were reflected on those who take it a bit too far. Like I said, it's evidence that Superman is very strong. But everyone knew that already.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you implying that h1a8 is the true representation of superman fans? We are talking about lifting feats, any and all feats are allowed. When you see me talking about superman punching someone with "infinite force", you have the right to claim BS on it. Till then its a perfectly usable feat no matter whatever anybody thinks about its absurdity. And? You are talking like comic book writer always think about these concepts. Good for ultraman, it doesn't dismiss Kal's feat.

No, the problem with the feat is its implications as well, which INCLUDE that superman can apply infinite force with a punch.

Afterall, it requires FORCE to lift something, does it not?

And regardless of whether a punch produces less force than a deadlift or something, even if its a fraction of 'infinite weight lifting force', it would still be 'infinite'.

It's a nonsensical feat. Discard it from usage.

There's no need to discard it. Just don't take it so literally.

Discard it from the sense as being applicable in a combat sense.


That's not what this thread is about of course, but strength is a huge part of battle boards.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, the problem with the feat is its implications as well, which INCLUDE that superman can apply infinite force with a punch.

Afterall, it requires FORCE to lift something, does it not?

And regardless of whether a punch produces less force than a deadlift or something, even if its a fraction of 'infinite weight lifting force', it would still be 'infinite'.

It's a nonsensical feat. Discard it from usage. Originally posted by CosmicComet
Discard it from the sense as being applicable in a combat sense.


That's not what this thread is about of course, but strength is a huge part of battle boards.

Why, because you don't like it? No one is arguing about it being usable in combat but comparing feats, its perfectly usable. Unless you secretly became a mod and no one told us yet.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Discard it from the sense as being applicable in a combat sense.


That's not what this thread is about of course, but strength is a huge part of battle boards.



It took only Ultraman on his own to lift the book of infinite weight.While it took Superman and Capt.Marvel to lift the book.This would mean both Supes and Cap were lifting half of infinite.But half of infinite is still infinite.This would still make Superman and Ultraman equal since its the same book they lifted.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
ermm

I wasn't talking about Superman fans in general. I wasn't talking about you either (Unless you have argued what I said).

It's perfectly usable, my comments were reflected on those who take it a bit too far. Like I said, it's evidence that Superman is very strong. But everyone knew that already.

People also like to dismiss superman's feats. For how many years people pretended that T-vo doesn't exist or anytime superman does something good, its because he is the flagship character of DC? I'm not saying you did it but we have someone in this very thread who likes to dismiss this feat despite Kal doing it twice. You think I give a damn about what anybody thinks about me on an internet forum? Of course you wouldn't take it literally, but you are entitled to your opinion and I'm to mine opinion. Who's correct according to on-panel proof though? Its certainly not you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why, because you don't like it? No one is arguing about it being usable in combat but comparing feats, its perfectly usable. Unless you secretly became a mod and no one told us yet. Please do tell how strong Superman had to be to perform that feat?

abhilegend. Jesus Christ.

You are one of the most blatant abusers of appeal to motive fallacy I've seen on this section.

Everytime you're cornered on something you do the same old butthurt WAAAHHH U R MEAN TO CLARK routine.

Stop it.

It's especially funny when its clearly directed at someone who regularly argues that Superman by virtue of speed alone should beat Thor for a majority. (myself)

Originally posted by CosmicComet
abhilegend. Jesus Christ.

You are one of the most blatant abusers of appeal to motive fallacy I've seen on this section.

Everytime you're cornered on something you do the same old butthurt WAAAHHH U R MEAN TO CLARK routine.

Stop it.

It's especially funny when its clearly directed at someone who regularly argues that Superman by virtue of speed alone should beat Thor for a majority. (myself)
Blah, blah, blah. Personal attacks are useless. Wasn't it you who said that every time superman beats lobo its PIS, despite it having occurred multiple times? You can scream till you're blue in the face but untill a mod declares its not usable, its perfectly usable to compare feats. Who's cornered here, me or you who has now come down to personal attacks? H1a8 and starscream also argues that superman beats thor due to speed, does that mean I would agree with them on anything and everything?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Please do tell how strong Superman had to be to perform that feat?
Real strong.

Originally posted by carver9
Read above.

I did; you're still wrong.

--

The "infinite pages" feat is only usable in a "what's the craziest feat" kind of thread. As far as quantifiable feats go, it's not usable, and isn't really a barometer against which to measure Superman's strength.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Real strong. Exactly.

You can't quantify it. It can't be used in a debate because it is completely unquantifiable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Exactly.

You can't quantify it. It can't be used in a debate because it is completely unquantifiable.
If you didn't notice, its not a combat thread. Its a "who can lift more weight" and unless its CBR where people can pick and chose what feats to use, its perfectly usable.
Edit:Pr said its not usable. So its not usable in this thread. I stand corrected.

Originally posted by abhilegend
People also like to dismiss superman's feats. For how many years people pretended that T-vo doesn't exist or anytime superman does something good, its because he is the flagship character of DC? I'm not saying you did it but we have someone in this very thread who likes to dismiss this feat despite Kal doing it twice. You think I give a damn about what anybody thinks about me on an internet forum? Of course you wouldn't take it literally, but you are entitled to your opinion and I'm to mine opinion. Who's correct according to on-panel proof though? Its certainly not you.

ermm

Are you sure you replied to the right post?

What does any of that have to do with what I was discussing?

You feel like other posters are lowballing Clark? I'm sorry you feel that way I guess but I don't think I've shown any interest in that particular tangent.

I think I've said all I need to on the original topic, when you're done.....complaining (?) and feel like having any other discussions, I'm down.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Blah, blah, blah. Personal attacks are useless. Wasn't it you who said that every time superman beats lobo its PIS, despite it having occurred multiple times? You can scream till you're blue in the face but untill a mod declares its not usable, its perfectly usable to compare feats. Who's cornered here, me or you who has now come down to personal attacks? H1a8 and starscream also argues that superman beats thor due to speed, does that mean I would agree with them on anything and everything?

What's useless is your incessant fallacy related whining. I'm pointing out flaws in your posting style, again,your fallacy usages which basically amounts to going off on some tangent that 'everyone dislikes Superman and his feats'. Stop it. Especially when you direct unwittingly at someone who loves Superman. Listen, you aren't particular bright, so I'll tell you again, I'm talking about quantifiable feats here. This has nothing to do with Superman having some feat over anyone else. Seeing as he's not the only one to have unquantifiable feats of this magnitude ever so thinly sprinkled about in his history anyway, which was my point; they're useless for debates and never manifest themselves realistically/demonstrate the implications that come with them. Focus on quantifiable feats whenever possible.

Yes, you are the cornered one. Since you have no argument for the feats viability other than saying I'm not a mod therefore I can't argue against it. That's a cop out attempt to appeal to some guideline. Address the damn argument.

The feat is unapplicable and within a cooky realm with undefinable laws and circumstances, and Superman demonstrates strength limitations within the same arc after all therefore at face value is a blatant contradiction. And what compounds the issue more is, once again, the implications of the feat if taken at face value (which you are trying to do, therefore you can't pick and choose what you want it to mean and not mean.) e.g. if Superman can lift infinite weight, he can punch with infinite force.

And I have no idea if I ever said that or not. Lobo at his best is definitely above Superman though. Seeing as Lobo at his best is a cartoon character that can beat up the actual authors.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
ermm

Are you sure you replied to the right post?

What does any of that have to do with what I was discussing?

You feel like other posters are lowballing Clark? I'm sorry you feel that way I guess but I don't think I've shown any interest in that particular tangent.

I think I've said all I need to on the original topic, when you're done.....complaining (?) and feel like having any other discussions, I'm down.
Uh, I almost didn't recognize you rage. I've also said everything I can say on this thread. See you again on something else.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh, I almost didn't recognize you rage. I've also said everything I can say on this thread. See you again on something else.

Loved the game, had to change my set.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Its not the same genius Its the same genius when force of any kind is used to contain something being it strength, forcefield or energy field. It takes a counter force. The same as sue richards holding something in her forcefield or hulk holding it in its hand if its small like the black hole superman was holding. People were straining using strength or either some form of containment method causing stress on their body genius

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one sane considers that a quantifiable feat. You would be surprised at how many that would try.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
What's useless is your incessant fallacy related whining. I'm pointing out flaws in your posting style, again,your fallacy usages which basically amounts to going off on some tangent that 'everyone dislikes Superman and his feats'. Stop it. Especially when you direct unwittingly at someone who loves Superman. Listen, you aren't particular bright, so I'll tell you again, I'm talking about quantifiable feats here. This has nothing to do with Superman having some feat over anyone else. Seeing as he's not the only one to have unquantifiable feats of this magnitude ever so thinly sprinkled about in his history anyway, which was my point; they're useless for debates and never manifest themselves realistically/demonstrate the implications that come with them. Focus on quantifiable feats whenever possible.

Yes, you are the cornered one. Since you have no argument for the feats viability other than saying I'm not a mod therefore I can't argue against it. That's a cop out attempt to appeal to some guideline. Address the damn argument.

The feat is unapplicable and within a cooky realm with undefinable laws and circumstances, and Superman demonstrates strength limitations within the same arc after all therefore at face value is a blatant contradiction. And what compounds the issue more is, once again, the implications of the feat if taken at face value (which you are trying to do, therefore you can't pick and choose what you want it to mean and not mean.) e.g. if Superman can lift infinite weight, he can punch with infinite force.

And I have no idea if I ever said that or not. Lobo at his best is definitely above Superman though. Seeing as Lobo at his best is a cartoon character that can beat up the actual authors.
Listen these insults would lead you nowhere, who cares if you love superman or not. You cornered me? Lulz, says the guy who's trying to ignore two feats from different times, two different writers and performed with two different partners because he doesn't like them and it doesn't fit in his frame of logic of how comics work. No shit sherlock, most of comics don't follow real world logic. Who said anyone using this in combat threads? It happened, get over it. But as pr ruled it out, its not usable.
She-hulk also did all that stuff. Means squat. Lobo is above kal as soon as you can prove all his losses are due to clones which as Lobo confirmed is not true in REBELS 27, I'm sure is not happening any time soon.

Superman, if only just. It's not by any kind of noticeable or massive degree, certainly not anywhere close to being x50 - x1000 stronger than Thor. I lol'd good about that by the way.

Originally posted by abhilegend
People also like to dismiss superman's feats. For how many years people pretended that T-vo doesn't exist...

He only used it a few times..

And I think the main objection was to posters that claimed T-vo would let him beat high level cosmics (Ever hear of a guy named RC? He's over at Alvaro's message board, and interviewed several writers including Joe Casey and Dan Jurgens, and honestly believed T-vo = win over Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet.. And he's not the only poster I've seen bring up T-vo as some be all, end all ultimate attack.)

Having read the Dominus storyline myself, T-vo isn't some kind of "Astral Plane" like zone where everything gets equalized, it's merely a technique that puts his mind into the theta state, similar to the state of the brain when you dream. This negated Dominus dipping into his head to alter reality...

Basically, there's no reason to believe the theta state is useful against anyone but Dominus's specific power set...

^I didn't know that it was that extreme, can you give me a link. I loathe fanboys of any character. Not true, kal has used it against eradicator and adversary sucessfully.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman, if only just. It's not by any kind of noticeable or massive degree, certainly not anywhere close to being x50 - x1000 stronger than Thor. I lol'd good about that by the way.
I can respect that. IMO kal is stronger enough to make it a factor in a fight. 1000 or 2000 times stronger, HELL NO. I was like WTF is this shit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^I didn't know that it was that extreme, can you give me a link. I loathe fanboys of any character. Not true, kal has used it against eradicator and adversary sucessfully.

The RC one is pretty old now, but I'll try and dig it up.

Do you know when abouts he used it those other times, and how he used it? From the original description in the Dominus arc, the Theta state of mind is supposed to increase a Kryptonians combat effectiveness (Sort of like a warrior madness, maybe?). and just happened to come in handy against Dominus's mind reading..

Originally posted by Booster Golden
wtf? and you came to that conclusion based on what genious? feats that we havent seen yet from thor because you hide them deep up your ass?

Classy.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/midgardserpent1.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/28640/724593-thorserpent2_super.jpg

There you go.

Originally posted by carver9
So with that said, you agree Ultraman is stronger than Superman? nope. infinite weight is infinite weight. so regardless of how much it's divided it's still going to be infinite. Though definitively saying the book has infinite weight is wrong as well because infinity is a concept not an actual number.

Oh btw I think this thread is relatively moot due to DC's acceptance of stupidly high end feats. If there was a throwdown feat for feat matchup between thor and supes, supes is going to win just because DC has the tendency to ignore character limitations as a matter of convenience for the story. Personally I think that's one of the things Marvel does better in that their characters tend to have their strengths and weaknesses and power creep is relatively slow and consistent with their levels bouncing up and down all over the place.

in mathematics and science, there are such things as scales of infinity. the subset of numbers between 1 and 2=infinite. the set of ALL numbers is also infinite, but the set of all numbers>subset of numbers between 1 and 2 because it includes that subset.

infinities are not viewed equally. just sayin.

Originally posted by cdtm
The RC one is pretty old now, but I'll try and dig it up.

Do you know when abouts he used it those other times, and how he used it? From the original description in the Dominus arc, the Theta state of mind is supposed to increase a Kryptonians combat effectiveness (Sort of like a warrior madness, maybe?). and just happened to come in handy against Dominus's mind reading..
So just like surfer at cbr. You obviously made that "handy against dominus", typical of you. Here's superman using T-vo against adversary

Originally posted by Avlon
Superman uses Torquasm VO (T-VO) AND Torquasm Rao on the fly to dissolve an endless supply of magical/psychic/ and physical Adversary clones.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6587/adventuresofsuperman586dt7.th.jpghttp://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6568/adventuresofsuperman586qm0.th.jpghttp://img410.imageshack.us/img410/115/adventuresofsuperman586aq8.th.jpg Originally posted by Avlon
Uses T-vo to absorb a blow that knocks him from the US to China while leaving himself completely defenseless otherwise.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8947/adventuresofsuperman581lt6.th.jpghttp://img91.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2811/adventuresofsuperman581aq1.th.jpghttp://img91.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gifhttp://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6180/adventuresofsuperman581xl8.th.jpghttp://img91.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Eradicator has also used it, lois has used Tarquasm-rao etc. Check out eradicator respect thread. Re-read KOTW before making new theories.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman needed help...Ultraman did it with ease.

Superman didn't need the Help, he even didn't really struggle, CM struggled however. Superman is a good guy and if you have to accomplish something as impossible as this, you don't play the arrogant attention whore but take everything that is available to help you. Ultraman seemed to struggle more btw. Anyway, a moot point as Kal beats his ass^^ and this Kal isn't there anymore^^.

Originally posted by leonidas
in mathematics and science, there are such things as scales of infinity. the subset of numbers between 1 and 2=infinite. the set of ALL numbers is also infinite, but the set of all numbers>subset of numbers between 1 and 2 because it includes that subset.

infinities are not viewed equally. just sayin. true but in the case of the book it was a moot point because it's concept was as a weight without limit or end high or low. So in this case lifting even a fraction is still beyond comprehension in terms of giving it a numerical value.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Superman didn't need the Help, he even didn't really struggle, CM struggled however. Superman is a good guy and if you have to accomplish something as impossible as this, you don't play the arrogant attention whore but take everything that is available to help you. Ultraman seemed to struggle more btw. Anyway, a moot point as Kal beats his ass^^ and this Kal isn't there anymore^^.

Ohhhh God. He's back.

Originally posted by carver9
Ohhhh God. He's back.

I missed you too Carver, my Boy^^. And hey, I have my final exam on 2nd Feb. After that you will see me here more often :>.

BP smash puny Carver .

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I missed you too Carver, my Boy^^. And hey, I have my final exam on 2nd Feb. After that you will see me here more often :>.

BP smash puny Carver .

Missed destroying you as well. It's good to have you back though. Hope you do well on your exam.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Listen these insults would lead you nowhere, who cares if you love superman or not.
You definitely care. Since you are the same idiot who's been implying that I somehow have a bias against him and am lowballing him in this very thread. Idiot.

Forget that I am the same dude who was arguing for the Superman city building speed feat perhaps? Think before you type.



I like how you've not addressed a damn thing I said and just go on plugging your ears saying 'lalalalala but it happened!11'

Slowing down spectre thing? Bullshit hyperbole. He does not have the infinite weight, clearly. else trying to slow down his landing would be, you know pointless.

Infinite pages feat. Already addressed.

Doing something 'twice', years apart, over thousands of appearances does not consistency make. Especially when they are riddled with contradictory showings within the same stories and have no logical follow through. You do know what P.I.S. is yes?

It's irrelevant whether this is a combat thread or not, the point is you can't accept bits and pieces of what a feat means; trying to strictly apply real world logic towards one aspect while ignoring everything else the feat would bring implicitly. Again being that he can lift half of infinity then it must mean he's infinitely strong, you support this. BUT since he can apply infinite force in lifting, he should definitely be able to apply infinite force in punching. And being infinitely strong also means you should be infinitely fast. But, he's not an infinite force puncher nor is he infinitely fast, is he? You certainly won't say. Sometimes a nonsensical feat is just a nonsensical feat. This is why unquantifiable feats are ignored.

Yes, 'they happened', I don't have to get over it, as its not even a bother to me. Rather, it's you who needs to get over that they don't mean what you want them to mean.


Lobo has some occasional bugs gunny level toon force. Jen does not; an occasional fourth wall breaker is all. Anyway, red herring. Pointless to the discussion at hand, will not address any further.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman, if only just. It's not by any kind of noticeable or massive degree, certainly not anywhere close to being x50 - x1000 stronger than Thor. I lol'd good about that by the way.

h1's take is far more reasonable than the other angle being implied here.

abhilegend for example, of course, supports the idea that Superman is stronger than Thor because he can lift 'infinite weight'. Which obviously has to imply that Thor CANNOT lift 'infinite weight'. Which would mean Superman is infinitely stronger than Thor, yes?

Obviously, speaking of implications again, you won't be able to get abhilegend to actually outright STATE that he believes Superman is infinitely stronger than Thor, because of course he will be laughed at.

h1 on the other hand dispenses of unquantifiable feats and focuses on what can be given a minimum figure. And I have to respect that. Afterall, if you see Savage Dragon lift a jeep sized boulder, and Luke Cage lift a tank, and we are in a thread arguing who is stronger, you would likely be WRONG if you went on visuals alone. (i.e. that the tank should be heavier just because its bigger.)

I find it a lot easier to believe that Superman could be 50 times stronger than Thor than saying he is infinitely stronger than Thor, don't you?

I don't know why people are so flabbergasted over a character statement of holding infinite weight. Hell, Reed Richards even thinks Gladiator is capable of limitless strength.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/354/glad2jf0.jpg/

Originally posted by carver9
I don't know why people are so flabbergasted over a character statement of holding infinite weight. Hell, Reed Richards even thinks Gladiator is capable of limitless strength.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/354/glad2jf0.jpg/ People are not flabbergasted over it, they just know for a fact that characters like superman,CM or Ultraman dont have anywhere near limitless strength. What gets to people is when they try to ram that booking lifting BS down their throats when everyone and their grandmother know that going by that book lifting thing means that superman,CM and Ultraman are stronger than... Kurse,WBH,Zeus,pre-crisis superman,superman prime, All-star superman, superman one million and every other character ever created in Marvel, DC and image ALL TOGETHER IN ONE BODY. Yet supes,cm and um gets over powered and beaten by the likes of atlas, black adam, wonder woman, Ultraa and many other heros and villians who you could not PAY them to claim that they also must have infinite strength.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't know why people are so flabbergasted over a character statement of holding infinite weight. Hell, Reed Richards even thinks Gladiator is capable of limitless strength.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/354/glad2jf0.jpg/ Not the same thing

Originally posted by iceman24567
Not the same thing

Exactly.

--

While Torqasm Rao/Vo was never explicitly retconned, the fact that it hasn't been referenced since what, the late 90s? Would suggest to me that it wasn't really considered a valid part of his powerset by the time Infinite Crisis came around. I wouldn't go about using it in debates.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
You definitely care. Since you are the same idiot who's been implying that I somehow have a bias against him and am lowballing him in this very thread. Idiot.

Listen dude, you obviously don't have the capacity to follow a civil conversation without insults. So why bother replying when all you have is your opinion about how a feat is invalid, which you are repeating ad nauseam. Try this again and I have to report you.


And? How's that relevant here? Did I say you try to lowball superman every chance you get? No, that's an honor that only carver gets.





What's there to address other than your opinion and some applications of real world science which are clearly not relevant in comics otherwise we have to invalid a lot more showings other than infinite book feat.



The comic says otherwise

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_jlaspectresoulwarwwliftspectre.jpg



Where, oh you mean your opinion that it can't be infinite because "It just can't". Great debating there sherlock



Its comics dude, otherwise tell me how's flash does have any trouble with any of his rogues when he can move like 13 trillion times speed of light (not my calculation), and this is not his limit either. So we take any comic where superman or flash doesn't ko their opponent within the first nano-second PIS. There we go with one panel comics. This is comics, there are always contradictory showings.

It's irrelevant whether this is a combat thread or not, the point is you can't accept bits and pieces of what a feat means; trying to strictly apply real world logic towards one aspect while ignoring everything else the feat would bring implicitly. Again being that he can lift half of infinity then it must mean he's infinitely strong, you support this. BUT since he can apply infinite force in lifting, he should definitely be able to apply infinite force in punching. And being infinitely strong also means you should be infinitely fast. But, he's not an infinite force puncher nor is he infinitely fast, is he? You certainly won't say. Sometimes a nonsensical feat is just a nonsensical feat. This is why unquantifiable feats are ignored.



Pray tell me what I want them to mean? Does that mean superman isn't infinitely stronger than thor? Oh noes, what would I do with my life now!!!???




Nope, she did all that toony stuff for her entire 50 issue run like this

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6017/sensationalshehulkv2009wy2.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56196/1888939-tumblr_l2bsfhy0k11qziacgo1_500_super.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j182/swiftian/zaius2009a/zaius09d/shehulk2.jpg
http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1238514740.jpg

Does that mean she could defeat thor in a vs thread, nope.






Lulz.



Nice attempt to put words in my mouth, but no superman isn't stronger than thor because he lifted "infinite weight". Quote me where I said that or GTFO with this imaginary stuff.



Actually sherlock, I give thor an even split against superman. Even in this thread I give superman just a little strength edge over thor and almost every thor fan (rage, jake) agree with me. So, no superman isn't infinitely stronger than thor. Bring a proof that I ever said that or STFU with this psycology.


Blah, blah, blah. How's that relevant here unless you believe the BS h1 spouts that superman is 50 times stronger than thor. Thor also has some abstract level strength feats like turning the wheels of world engine and turning back time

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorStrength43494.jpg

Originally posted by -Pr-
Exactly.

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While Torqasm Rao/Vo was never explicitly retconned, the fact that it hasn't been referenced since what, the late 90s? Would suggest to me that it wasn't really considered a valid part of his powerset by the time Infinite Crisis came around. I wouldn't go about using it in debates.
No one is arguing about using it in debates, I was just correcting cdtm that it has never been used other than dominus. Funny that if we go that route how many showings of other characters would have to be excluded from threads.

Lol, like I said earlier, these type of showings are just mean to prove that the characters are strong. Taking it beyond that, is a bit pointless. I don't think they should be discarded though.

Fun fact: Thor turning the World Engine is basically the equivalent of Hercules lifting the Heavens. By that I mean, they -World Tree and Atlas- are both representations of the Cosmic Axis (The World Tree is more important, came first, and is connected to an infinite number of Universes though), except more impressive since Thor was weakened and the World Tree was actively exerting it's will to bring about Ragnarok.

I treat those high end unquantifiable/abstract feats for what they're worth. Epic high end showings to wow the readers. I accept they happened, but I also reconcile that for the intents and purposes of the vast majority of said character's history, they're not possessed of "infinite strength".

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I treat those high end unquantifiable/abstract feats for what they're worth. Epic high end showings to wow the readers. I accept they happened, but I also reconcile that for the intents and purposes of the vast majority of said character's history, they're not possessed of "infinite strength".

Originally posted by -Pr-
Exactly.

--

While Torqasm Rao/Vo was never explicitly retconned, the fact that it hasn't been referenced since what, the late 90s? Would suggest to me that it wasn't really considered a valid part of his powerset by the time Infinite Crisis came around. I wouldn't go about using it in debates.

Actually it was referenced just last year in superman retroactive

http://http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/3433/ccf0129201200000.th.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, like I said earlier, these type of showings are just mean to prove that the characters are strong. Taking it beyond that, is a bit pointless. I don't think they should be discarded though.

Fun fact: Thor turning the World Engine is basically the equivalent of Hercules lifting the Heavens. By that I mean, they -World Tree and Atlas- are both representations of the Cosmic Axis (The World Tree is more important, came first, and is connected to an infinite number of Universes though), except more impressive since Thor was weakened and the World Tree was actively exerting it's will to bring about Ragnarok.

I never use unquantifiable feats for obvious reasons. But I disagree with your assessment on the world engine. I believe it took less than planetary force to turn it.

With that said, quantifiable feats are the way to go, or feats that have a minimum threshold.

No matter what feats Superman has performed, it's how he matches up against a lot of non-flying adversaries at DC that is revealing. Darkseid & Orion are supposed to be his equal; Mongul (the first) and Doomsday have been stated in the past to have strength even greater that Superman, and when have we seen them do anything with it except brawl extensively? Which is why I've contended he uses a different power set when he's in flight.

Originally posted by h1a8
But I disagree with your assessment on the world engine. I believe it took less than planetary force to turn it.

I know I'm going to regret this, but based on what exactly?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know I'm going to regret this, but based on what exactly?

Because it doesnt equal 50 Earth weights (lol).

Originally posted by paisapower
Actually it was referenced just last year in superman retroactive

http://http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/3433/ccf0129201200000.th.jpg

That's a retrospective though; it's not really in continuity.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's a retrospective though; it's not really in continuity.


Maybe, but the point is that the idea is still out there and thus could possibly return

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's hurled both the Twilight Sword and the Odinsword with a lot of force.

The Twilight Sword doesn't weight as much as a Galaxy by the way. It should though be pretty heavy as it was forged from a Galactic core or whatever. Probably heavy but not planetary heavy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know I'm going to regret this, but based on what exactly? Because there is no proof of it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Because there is no proof of it. Proof of what ?

Originally posted by roughrider
No matter what feats Superman has performed, it's how he matches up against a lot of non-flying adversaries at DC that is revealing. Darkseid & Orion are supposed to be his equal; Mongul (the first) and Doomsday have been stated in the past to have strength even greater that Superman, and when have we seen them do anything with it except brawl extensively? Which is why I've contended he uses a different power set when he's in flight.
What are you talking about? So just because someone matches superman in brawling means superman uses flight in lifting? What kind of logic is that? Only doomsday is stronger than superman from all the people you listed, mongul was stronger in pre-crisis days.

Originally posted by h1a8
Because there is no proof of it.

Proof of what? The World Tree's power? If you even have to ask, then you shouldn't be making assumptions regarding the power needed to perform the feat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So just like surfer at cbr. You obviously made that "handy against dominus", typical of you.


Re-read KOTW before making new theories.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/week21-1999-SupesMOS-89-14.jpg

It's just like I said. T-vo is presented as a form of Kryptonian warrior madness, amping their combat effectiveness by altering their state of mind from an alert, awake beta state, to the theta state, as normally happens when dreaming.

Which makes it conveniently handy against Dominus, who can't access dreams to alter reality, but needs an alert mind in the beta state. So yes, it's entirely accurate to say T-vo just so happens to be handy against Dominus.

Some of those feats you posted are interesting..

Originally posted by paisapower
Maybe, but the point is that the idea is still out there and thus could possibly return

That's the thing; a retrospective is a look back, it's not really taking stock of something modern.

The fact that Superman himself hasn't used it in over a decade, and the way editors have spoken about it, leads me to believe that it's all but retconned at this point.

So....what is the outcome of this thread as per the OP?

Originally posted by carver9
If that black hole wasn't contained...more than Superman would have been sucked in. Martian Manhunter stated that once the containment field was depleted, the Earth would be destroyed.

What does containment have to do with mass? If I'm in a straitjacket, I don't get lighter.....if so, I have a brand new diet for all those portly people out there!